antabanta posted:

The two main parties are embroiled in fight for power for the worst possible reason - for individuals to pocket whatever little money, if any, is thrown towards Guyana from Exxon. The previous administration was corrupt, racist, practiced nepotism, involved with drugs and money laundering, and raped the nation. The current administration is dictatorial, slightly less corrupt, practices slightly less nepotism, very incompetent. Where is the Guyanese public? Where are the brilliant minds and community leaders who can galvanize the public to action against these incompetent and self-serving administrations? The Cuffys and Enmore martyrs and Walter Rodneys of Guyana must be turning over in their graves at mockery of independent governance of Guyana.

These are both subjective claims. 

On the yellow highlight: socu, saru, sara after spending billions of dollars to fatten its staff, not 1 ppp jailed.  A failure of PNC/AFC after convincing the public via trial by newspaper that PPP was worse than dog feces. 

Regarding current administration, nepotism abound with friends and family being rewarded. Not sure how you measured this to come up with the term "slightly", clearly your opinion.  

Drugb posted:

antabanta posted:

The two main parties are embroiled in fight for power for the worst possible reason - for individuals to pocket whatever little money, if any, is thrown towards Guyana from Exxon. The previous administration was corrupt, racist, practiced nepotism, involved with drugs and money laundering, and raped the nation. The current administration is dictatorial, slightly less corrupt, practices slightly less nepotism, very incompetent. Where is the Guyanese public? Where are the brilliant minds and community leaders who can galvanize the public to action against these incompetent and self-serving administrations? The Cuffys and Enmore martyrs and Walter Rodneys of Guyana must be turning over in their graves at mockery of independent governance of Guyana.

These are both subjective claims. 

On the yellow highlight: socu, saru, sara after spending billions of dollars to fatten its staff, not 1 ppp jailed.  A failure of PNC/AFC after convincing the public via trial by newspaper that PPP was worse than dog feces. 

Regarding current administration, nepotism abound with friends and family being rewarded. Not sure how you measured this to come up with the term "slightly", clearly your opinion.  

No. My descriptions of the two administrations are fact-based. But that is beside the point. Both have been bad for Guyana. Fixing one by replacing it with the other will NEVER fix the problems. The government has to be made transparent and accountable. Why aren't the people of Guyana rising up en masse against the perpetrators? Where are the protests and marches? And I don't mean the pitiful PPP or PNC-organized protests to serve their own interests.

antabanta posted:

The two main parties are embroiled in fight for power for the worst possible reason - for individuals to pocket whatever little money, if any, is thrown towards Guyana from Exxon. The previous administration was corrupt, racist, practiced nepotism, involved with drugs and money laundering, and raped the nation. The current administration is dictatorial, slightly less corrupt, practices slightly less nepotism, very incompetent. Where is the Guyanese public? Where are the brilliant minds and community leaders who can galvanize the public to action against these incompetent and self-serving administrations? The Cuffys and Enmore martyrs and Walter Rodneys of Guyana must be turning over in their graves at mockery of independent governance of Guyana.

Even the intellectuals have become bankanized ethnically and hide behind the reflected glory of their own in office. This apparently is a trait in group formation. People can organize to support others even when they do not agree with the trust of their ideas. The entire German people followed Hitler because they identified with Germany more and saw the world as against them.  

Thomas Khun spoke to structural revolutions in science and society and suggested that the majority of the people will take sides in an argument and remain there entrenched as the resistence. They will  rationalize the absurdity of their position as anomalous and agree to live with it as necessary.

Change,  when it comes is always  revolutionary. It succeeds only by wiping out the old guard by force in such overwhelming ways that causes them to retire into the background or die.  We do not have any revolutionary leaders...as yet. And none of us are ready to take to the streets to shout these crooks down. Indians still think Jagdeo is sacred. I bet some of them have murtis to him. Granger is the most uncreative and unimaginative person we ever had in office but the PNC will back him and black people will be his phalanx protecting him as rabidly as mad dogs. Change aint coming soon.

Drugb posted:

antabanta posted:

The two main parties are embroiled in fight for power for the worst possible reason - for individuals to pocket whatever little money, if any, is thrown towards Guyana from Exxon. The previous administration was corrupt, racist, practiced nepotism, involved with drugs and money laundering, and raped the nation. The current administration is dictatorial, slightly less corrupt, practices slightly less nepotism, very incompetent. Where is the Guyanese public? Where are the brilliant minds and community leaders who can galvanize the public to action against these incompetent and self-serving administrations? The Cuffys and Enmore martyrs and Walter Rodneys of Guyana must be turning over in their graves at mockery of independent governance of Guyana.

These are both subjective claims. 

On the yellow highlight: socu, saru, sara after spending billions of dollars to fatten its staff, not 1 ppp jailed.  A failure of PNC/AFC after convincing the public via trial by newspaper that PPP was worse than dog feces. 

Regarding current administration, nepotism abound with friends and family being rewarded. Not sure how you measured this to come up with the term "slightly", clearly your opinion.  

You are the only person who can contradict himself in the same post. It is subjective and yet you insist "Regarding current administration, nepotism abound with friends and family being rewarded"  is an objective conclusion we should accept.

Stormborn posted:

Change,  when it comes is always  revolutionary.

What further incentive is needed to prompt such change? People are being murdered daily. Poor people in Guyana are still poor despite the superficial developments of the previous admin, such poverty largely responsible for the daily murders, yet we constantly read about the growing wealth of members of every administration. We constantly read and hear about the rampant corruption and tyranny. But there is no movement by the general public to challenge the perpetrators. A good friend of mine, a former GDF officer, black GDF officer I must emphasize, took me to see the supposedly grand Durban Park, cussing the blatant disregard for public sentiment that not only allows such a travesty foisted upon the nation but encourages more because the person(s) responsible for that disappointment is still in the good graces of the administration and receiving projects. And where is the public outrage?

On another note, I need to read Kuhn's seminal work a third time before fully understanding every aspect of it.

The regular Guyanese person is busy trying to make ends meet, they don't have the time to waste with what the politicians are doing. Because of how Guyana's political system is structured, there will always be a large segment who will be under or unrepresented. Guyanese knows that so they take independent measures to take care of themselves and their families. For Guyana to become a more perfect union, there needs to be a complete overhaul of its political system.

If a powerful country as America can have someone with the mentality of a flea as their leader along with his fellow flea brained Republicans who stick with him as he waddles through the rot he has built up yet millions see him as their hero, then how can we expect "shitty" third world countries do any better?

Now I am not saying change cannot come....but when?

antabanta posted:

Stormborn posted:

Change,  when it comes is always  revolutionary.

What further incentive is needed to prompt such change? People are being murdered daily. Poor people in Guyana are still poor despite the superficial developments of the previous admin, such poverty largely responsible for the daily murders, yet we constantly read about the growing wealth of members of every administration. We constantly read and hear about the rampant corruption and tyranny. But there is no movement by the general public to challenge the perpetrators. A good friend of mine, a former GDF officer, black GDF officer I must emphasize, took me to see the supposedly grand Durban Park, cussing the blatant disregard for public sentiment that not only allows such a travesty foisted upon the nation but encourages more because the person(s) responsible for that disappointment is still in the good graces of the administration and receiving projects. And where is the public outrage?

On another note, I need to read Kuhn's seminal work a third time before fully understanding every aspect of it.

Kuhn's work is a critique on how science advances but also works for society. It  is an enjoyable eye opening read. Here it is

ksazma posted:

The regular Guyanese person is busy trying to make ends meet, they don't have the time to waste with what the politicians are doing.

But that right there is the problem. A reasonable percentage of the population are NOT making ends meet, most barely, and a few doing well, largely because of government mal-administration, and I mean from all the administrations to date.

Stormborn posted:

Kuhn's work is a critique on how science advances but also works for society. It  is an enjoyable eye opening read. Here it is

Thanks. I have a hard copy.

cain posted:

If a powerful country as America can have someone with the mentality of a flea as their leader along with his fellow flea brained Republicans who stick with him as he waddles through the rot he has built up yet millions see him as their hero, then how can we expect "shitty" third world countries do any better?

Now I am not saying change cannot come....but when?

Get with the program, Putin put him there because he didn't want to deal with Hillary. 

antabanta posted:

ksazma posted:

The regular Guyanese person is busy trying to make ends meet, they don't have the time to waste with what the politicians are doing.

But that right there is the problem. A reasonable percentage of the population are NOT making ends meet, most barely, and a few doing well, largely because of government mal-administration, and I mean from all the administrations to date.

I don't think the regular Guyanese person has other viable options. The system is not conducive to structural change.

Leonora posted:

cain posted:

If a powerful country as America can have someone with the mentality of a flea as their leader along with his fellow flea brained Republicans who stick with him as he waddles through the rot he has built up yet millions see him as their hero, then how can we expect "shitty" third world countries do any better?

Now I am not saying change cannot come....but when?

Get with the program, Putin put him there because he didn't want to deal with Hillary. 

And who do you think the Americans will install in Guyana?

Baseman posted:

Leonora posted:

cain posted:

If a powerful country as America can have someone with the mentality of a flea as their leader along with his fellow flea brained Republicans who stick with him as he waddles through the rot he has built up yet millions see him as their hero, then how can we expect "shitty" third world countries do any better?

Now I am not saying change cannot come....but when?

Get with the program, Putin put him there because he didn't want to deal with Hillary. 

And who do you think the Americans will install in Guyana?

The Americans really do not care. They want a stable society. 

Leonora posted:

cain posted:

If a powerful country as America can have someone with the mentality of a flea as their leader along with his fellow flea brained Republicans who stick with him as he waddles through the rot he has built up yet millions see him as their hero, then how can we expect "shitty" third world countries do any better?

Now I am not saying change cannot come....but when?

Get with the program, Putin put him there because he didn't want to deal with Hillary. 

And he is extremely happy ...

ksazma posted:

The regular Guyanese person is busy trying to make ends meet, they don't have the time to waste with what the politicians are doing. Because of how Guyana's political system is structured, there will always be a large segment who will be under or unrepresented. Guyanese knows that so they take independent measures to take care of themselves and their families. For Guyana to become a more perfect union, there needs to be a complete overhaul of its political system.

Kaz,

I agree whole heartedly. What is currently occurring in Guyana today is at the heart of the problem. Indos don’t trust Afros governing and vice versa. 

This mistrust goes way back to when Indentured immigrants first arrived and the British capitalized on that mistrust. Jagan and Burnham further exploited that mistrust for their own selfish political interest. 

Walter Rodney was the only politician who could have potentially galvanized Guyana but we know that the PNC murdered him. That left a void that cannot be filled to this day.

Guyana can still heal and become a more democratic and united country but lacks the political will. The first step will have to be a National Reconciliation like what they did at South Africa’s truth commission. 

Constitutional reform is necessary but both the PPP and PNC use it to their advantage and as such Burnham’s ghost still lingers on. Amendments are necessary and those can easily done in consultation with Church, Business, Political, Community, Academics and even impartial international organizations. The case at CCJ highlighted a few contradictory sections of the constitution and I personally feel that some of the judges are having heart wrenching moments in making a decision. 

The final decision will potentially be a reasonable conclusion but this will not be a PPP or PNC win since one side will claim that their rights have been violated. I personally feel that while the PNC is hapless, we cannot ignore Afro Guyanese right to become equal partners in Guyana’s future economic success. The tit for tat will continue in an eventual PPP electoral victory, the pain continues. 

A genuine third political party is necessary to force change but AFC destroyed Guyanese appetite for any such force. At least not in the near future. The political carnage continues. Shoeman might become that third force but only god knows what is in his mind.

antabanta posted:

Drugb posted:

antabanta posted:

The two main parties are embroiled in fight for power for the worst possible reason - for individuals to pocket whatever little money, if any, is thrown towards Guyana from Exxon. The previous administration was corrupt, racist, practiced nepotism, involved with drugs and money laundering, and raped the nation. The current administration is dictatorial, slightly less corrupt, practices slightly less nepotism, very incompetent. Where is the Guyanese public? Where are the brilliant minds and community leaders who can galvanize the public to action against these incompetent and self-serving administrations? The Cuffys and Enmore martyrs and Walter Rodneys of Guyana must be turning over in their graves at mockery of independent governance of Guyana.

These are both subjective claims. 

On the yellow highlight: socu, saru, sara after spending billions of dollars to fatten its staff, not 1 ppp jailed.  A failure of PNC/AFC after convincing the public via trial by newspaper that PPP was worse than dog feces. 

Regarding current administration, nepotism abound with friends and family being rewarded. Not sure how you measured this to come up with the term "slightly", clearly your opinion.  

No. My descriptions of the two administrations are fact-based. But that is beside the point. Both have been bad for Guyana. Fixing one by replacing it with the other will NEVER fix the problems. The government has to be made transparent and accountable. Why aren't the people of Guyana rising up en masse against the perpetrators? Where are the protests and marches? And I don't mean the pitiful PPP or PNC-organized protests to serve their own interests.

The partial answer can be found in your post above. 

A revolution can start from below or above...it can be genuinely working class and mass based if people rise up against dictatorial practices, generally when they are denied the ability to enjoy the fruits of their labor. The objective conditions for such a possibility does not exist in Guyana. There are no popular leader who are seen as willing to take on this challenge. There is no charismatic leader like a Walter Rodney and a Cheddi Jagan. Additionally, Guyana has an outlet that offers people out of the country...migration or "backtracking", so the disenchanted instead of directing their energy towards regime change are busy migrating...even those who remain in Guyana are "baring the chafe" and waiting for their "papers" as they become part of the chain migration process. 

Lack of leadership and an outlet, and the continued racial divide work against the creation of a unified and "spring" revolution in Guyana, or the type led by Rodney.

Stormborn posted:

antabanta posted:

Stormborn posted:

Change,  when it comes is always  revolutionary.

What further incentive is needed to prompt such change? People are being murdered daily. Poor people in Guyana are still poor despite the superficial developments of the previous admin, such poverty largely responsible for the daily murders, yet we constantly read about the growing wealth of members of every administration. We constantly read and hear about the rampant corruption and tyranny. But there is no movement by the general public to challenge the perpetrators. A good friend of mine, a former GDF officer, black GDF officer I must emphasize, took me to see the supposedly grand Durban Park, cussing the blatant disregard for public sentiment that not only allows such a travesty foisted upon the nation but encourages more because the person(s) responsible for that disappointment is still in the good graces of the administration and receiving projects. And where is the public outrage?

On another note, I need to read Kuhn's seminal work a third time before fully understanding every aspect of it.

Kuhn's work is a critique on how science advances but also works for society. It  is an enjoyable eye opening read. Here it is

Regarding Kuhn' work...what Guyanese need is a "paradigm shift" to borrow a phrase from Kuhn. 

The old politics where political leaders are seen as saviors (doctor politics, according to  Archie Singham) still holds true for Guyana and most of the Caribbean where political leaders are revered. 

I believe some of that is reflected in the fact that the leftist ideology of Rodney and Jagan are seen as discredited (for the world in general).  

antabanta posted:

Stormborn posted:

Change,  when it comes is always  revolutionary.

What further incentive is needed to prompt such change? People are being murdered daily. Poor people in Guyana are still poor despite the superficial developments of the previous admin, such poverty largely responsible for the daily murders, yet we constantly read about the growing wealth of members of every administration. We constantly read and hear about the rampant corruption and tyranny. But there is no movement by the general public to challenge the perpetrators. A good friend of mine, a former GDF officer, black GDF officer I must emphasize, took me to see the supposedly grand Durban Park, cussing the blatant disregard for public sentiment that not only allows such a travesty foisted upon the nation but encourages more because the person(s) responsible for that disappointment is still in the good graces of the administration and receiving projects. And where is the public outrage?

On another note, I need to read Kuhn's seminal work a third time before fully understanding every aspect of it.

Try Karl Popper...and his OPEN SOCIETY