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I think it's two fold, the main being APNU attempting to massage the figures which considering there recent track I'd be suspicious to and I'm no PPP supporter.

The second would be demographics which doesn't favour the traditional PPP voter as it once use to and would make a majority very hard to reach also age as a significant amount of younger voters would now be added.

 

FM
Baseman posted:
Prince posted:
Nehru posted:

You already gave the answer:  BUYING TIME BY THE RECKLESS PIGS!!

I said besides buying time, what is the big obstacle?

Banna, this is a ploy to screw the list and favor the PNC so they can rig easier!

U don’t trust the PNC one bit!!

Will there be PNC/PPP officials on the H2H registration? When all is said and done, will it be revised for error on both sides? This may be the PNC idea, but GECOM is independent and has officials on both sides? Isn't it or am I missing something? 

Baseman, ploy or not, the PNC said that H2H registration would give eligible voters a chance to be registered to vote. What is so wrong about that? Talk some sense to the Prince, nah man.

FM
Prince posted:
Baseman posted:
Prince posted:
Nehru posted:

You already gave the answer:  BUYING TIME BY THE RECKLESS PIGS!!

I said besides buying time, what is the big obstacle?

Banna, this is a ploy to screw the list and favor the PNC so they can rig easier!

U don’t trust the PNC one bit!!

Will there be PNC/PPP officials on the H2H registration? When all is said and done, will it be revised for error on both sides? This may be the PNC idea, but GECOM is independent and has officials on both sides? Isn't it or am I missing something? 

Baseman, ploy or not, the PNC said that H2H registration would give eligible voters a chance to be registered to vote. What is so wrong about that? Talk some sense to the Prince, nah man.

So for that past three elections, 15 years, are you saying people coming of age have been disenfranchised?  Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included!  Banna, you gullible!!

Baseman

This registration should not take more than a week. Set up registration centres in all of the regions; school, post offices, churches, police stations, other places and let the people come and register; at the end of the day , upload to a central location. 3 days is enough time to compile the list. It's so easy to check for multiple registrants; and the interested parties can spend the other week cleaning and correcting the lists. I'll give them another week. 3 weeks is ample time to produce a valid voters list and election can be in 30 days. It's probably less than 500,000 names to register.

Mitwah
Mitwah posted:

This registration should not take more than a week. Set up registration centres in all of the regions; school, post offices, churches, police stations, other places and let the people come and register; at the end of the day , upload to a central location. 3 days is enough time to compile the list. It's so easy to check for multiple registrants; and the interested parties can spend the other week cleaning and correcting the lists. I'll give them another week. 3 weeks is ample time to produce a valid voters list and election can be in 30 days. It's probably less than 500,000 names to register.

Did you send this idea to any division of government in Guyana for consideration? Telling GNIers this is useless.  

When you have good ideas for GNIers, you must talk about rum to make it sweeter.  

FM
Prince posted:

Time for election has long gone since the NCV. Another six months will push it into December 2019 - January 2020. Why is Jagdeo so hurry? If the PPP is confident of winning, they will win. Now, why is H2H registration is such a big obstacle for the PPP?

Let's man up and talk about this thing properly.  

House to House registration is a stupid enterprise to undertake in a democracy. Voting is not compulsory. One does so because one feels a duty to participate in the selection of leaders. 

Healthy democracy exists because people participate on their own in the electorial process. These individuals are obliged to find themselves at the local registration centers and apply to be on the list. It means the list created that way has verifiable signatures from people who actually showed up. Given how these things work it is never all of the people but most of the people. Some people do not participate and our history tell us they accrue to around 20 to 30 percent. 

Going house to house to harvest a voters list is as a census of people from 14 and above on a special list. We already nave a decennial census so any list voluntarily created can be matched against that if error checking is necessary.

Worse this census of voters it will be a list managed by a partisan group in our political reality. It will be a padded list. It will not reflect the voters who really are interested in our democracy.

And the  list can be converted into a shape file and coded by ethnicity and be abused. Given our political reality again, we can know in real time and geographically who is voting from polling centers as they scratch off names of those who came in to vote.

Those at the polling center can know immediately  who did not vote and vote for them to top up their chances to win. This H2H is not preserving a secure voting list. It is creating a master list that can be used to manipulate  and game the outcome.

Voting should reflect the democratic process. Lists should be maintained of those who come in voluntary to register and leave a signed form at a registration center.  House to house registration is a gimmick. It is not about preserving or safeguarding the franchise. It is about a fiction in the heads of politicians conveniently 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Stormborn posted:
Prince posted:

Time for election has long gone since the NCV. Another six months will push it into December 2019 - January 2020. Why is Jagdeo so hurry? If the PPP is confident of winning, they will win. Now, why is H2H registration is such a big obstacle for the PPP?

Let's man up and talk about this thing properly.  

House to House registration is a stupid enterprise to undertake in a democracy. Voting is not compulsory. One does so because one feels a duty to participate in the selection of leaders. 

Healthy democracy exists because people participate on their own in the electorial process. These individuals are obliged to find themselves at the local registration centers and apply to be on the list. It means the list created that way has verifiable signatures from people who actually showed up. Given how these things work it is never all of the people but most of the people. Some people do not participate and our history tell us they accrue to around 20 to 30 percent. 

Going house to house to harvest a voters list is as a census of people from 14 and above on a special list. We already nave a decennial census so any list voluntarily created can be matched against that if error checking is necessary.

Worse this census of voters it will be a list managed by a partisan group in our political reality. It will be a padded list. It will not reflect the voters who really are interested in our democracy.

And the  list can be converted into a shape file and coded by ethnicity and be abused. Given our political reality again, we can know in real time and geographically who is voting from polling centers as they scratch off names of those who came in to vote.

Those at the polling center can know immediately  who did not vote and vote for them to top up their chances to win. This H2H is not preserving a secure voting list. It is creating a master list that can be used to manipulate  and game the outcome.

Voting should reflect the democratic process. Lists should be maintained of those who come in voluntary to register and leave a signed form at a registration center.  House to house registration is a gimmick. It is not about preserving or safeguarding the franchise. It is about a fiction in the heads of politicians conveniently 

Totally agree.....

...besides young people are already registered as they turn 18 because a system was created to do so at the suggestion of the Carter Center.

So Granger's suggestion that there might be as many as 200,000 people not on the list is a scam....and a plan to tamper with the list produced by H2H...this means that it will be difficult to say that the elections was rigged even if some observers witness a few irregularities here and there at the polling stations...it does not take much effort on the part of the PNC to resort to rigging, especially since they will not have to RIGG on a scale associated with previous elections. 

Additionally, the Claims and Objections can be utilized to clean up the current list.

If H2H registration is the way forward, as the coalition has now embarked, the best hope that the opposition have in exposing any rigging is to have as many observers as possible and ensure that the observers are made aware of what can be expected on polling day, as this will most likely be a close elections...

...the PNC and PPP (the smaller parties will not make a dent), although I am hoping the "Amerindian Party" capture a couple of seats to force change regardless of which of the 2 major parties capture a plurality.

V
Stormborn posted:
Prince posted:

Time for election has long gone since the NCV. Another six months will push it into December 2019 - January 2020. Why is Jagdeo so hurry? If the PPP is confident of winning, they will win. Now, why is H2H registration is such a big obstacle for the PPP?

Let's man up and talk about this thing properly.  

House to House registration is a stupid enterprise to undertake in a democracy.

seriously???

smfh

FM
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

Baseman
ronan posted:
Stormborn posted:
Prince posted:

Time for election has long gone since the NCV. Another six months will push it into December 2019 - January 2020. Why is Jagdeo so hurry? If the PPP is confident of winning, they will win. Now, why is H2H registration is such a big obstacle for the PPP?

Let's man up and talk about this thing properly.  

House to House registration is a stupid enterprise to undertake in a democracy.

seriously???

smfh

Seriously.

FM
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

if that is your concern, then be forthright and say so!

your concern is not illegitimate . . . that's why the PPP needs to step up and demand foreign oversight (or even takeover of the process) instead of fighting tooth and nail to coerce elections with a fraudulent voters roll

that's how you enhance democracy banna

FM
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

Exactly. It was only deemed necessary because the Coalition had one more vote then the PPP. H2H was done in 2008 to create a good list and then that list was supposed to be maintained through continuous registration and ratified for elections after all claims and objections.

FM
ksazma posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

Exactly. It was only deemed necessary because the Coalition had one more vote then the PPP.

ahmmm . . . OK

???

FM
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

if that is your concern, then be forthright and say so!

your concern is not illegitimate . . . that's why the PPP needs to step up and demand foreign oversight (or even takeover of the process) instead of fighting tooth and nail to coerce elections with a fraudulent voters roll

that's how you enhance democracy banna

Lets correct your post; there is no fraudulent list. This is a list that has been neglected by those tasked to preserve it. It may have dead people and people who emigrated but to say it is 200k in excess of a statistical expectation is unproven. It is a fiction manufactured to buy time for the regime in power. 

FM
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

if that is your concern, then be forthright and say so!

your concern is not illegitimate . . . that's why the PPP needs to step up and demand foreign oversight (or even takeover of the process) instead of fighting tooth and nail to coerce elections with a fraudulent voters roll

that's how you enhance democracy banna

It is a fiction manufactured to buy time for the regime in power. 

that you conclude thusly is a true measure of your contempt for the hundreds of thousands in Guyana (including most Afro-Guyanese) who see what i see

smh

FM
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

if that is your concern, then be forthright and say so!

your concern is not illegitimate . . . that's why the PPP needs to step up and demand foreign oversight (or even takeover of the process) instead of fighting tooth and nail to coerce elections with a fraudulent voters roll

that's how you enhance democracy banna

Lets correct your post; there is no fraudulent list.

This is a list that has been neglected by those tasked to preserve it.

It may have dead people and people who emigrated but to say it is 200k in excess of a statistical expectation is unproven. It is a fiction manufactured to buy time for the regime in power. 

Voters list can be deemed fraudulent, when deceased and migrants names are still listed.

From since 2006 corrections should have been made, seems nothing have been done. There are skulduggery where ID cards  of Immigrants and the deceased, are being used to vote.

Django
Django posted:

Voters list can be deemed fraudulent, when deceased and migrants names are still listed.

From since 2006 corrections should have been made, seems nothing have been done. There are skulduggery where ID cards  of Immigrants and the deceased, are being used to vote.

Fraud implies deliberate intent do commit a crime. This list is "corrupted", the term any technology person would use. To sanitize it would be to take steps to remove the dead folks and those who left the jurisdiction as well as add to it those who are not on it. This is what GECOM exists for. It is their job the only mandate they have. It is a failure through neglect or disinterest or laziness that the list is corrupted.

BTW you do not correct a list by discarding it and create an new one. The problems with registration could by itself be corrupting.Canvassers can be care less, people could be missed for not being at home, out of the jurisdiction or simply refuse. Accuracy is enhanced by keeping the old list, purging it of dead and those who left from official lists of the same.  Such a list maintained over an extended period will always be more accurate than H2H. Historical data over extended periods means one can run regression analysis to ferret out all sorts of anomalies. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Stormborn posted:
 

Fraud implies deliberate intent do commit a crime. This list is "corrupted", the term any technology person would use.

To sanitize it would be to take steps to remove the dead folks and those who left the jurisdiction as well as add to it those who are not on it. This is what GECOM exists for. It is their job the only mandate they have. It is a failure through neglect or disinterest or laziness that the list is corrupted. 

Ok man i stand corrected !!

Anyway the corrupted voters list are allowed to exist, due to the Political hacks present  in GECOM.

Django
Stormborn posted:
Django posted:
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Why now, when they need to comply with the 90 day mandate, suddenly H2H is the only way to ensure all eligible voters are included! Banna, you gullible!!

actually, H2H was deemed necessary by GECOM before NCV . . . even before LGE

try to keep up or, mo better, just stop lying!

PNC will use it to disenfranchise PPP voters!

if that is your concern, then be forthright and say so!

your concern is not illegitimate . . . that's why the PPP needs to step up and demand foreign oversight (or even takeover of the process) instead of fighting tooth and nail to coerce elections with a fraudulent voters roll

that's how you enhance democracy banna

Lets correct your post; there is no fraudulent list.

This is a list that has been neglected by those tasked to preserve it.

It may have dead people and people who emigrated but to say it is 200k in excess of a statistical expectation is unproven. It is a fiction manufactured to buy time for the regime in power. 

Voters list can be deemed fraudulent, when deceased and migrants names are still listed.

From since 2006 corrections should have been made, seems nothing have been done. There are skulduggery where ID cards  of Immigrants and the deceased, are being used to vote.

Fraud implies deliberate intent do commit a crime. This list is "corrupted", the term any technology person would use. To sanitize it would be to take steps to remove the dead folks and those who left the jurisdiction as well as add to it those who are not on it. This is what GECOM exists for. It is their job the only mandate they have. It is a failure through neglect or disinterest or laziness that the list is corrupted. 

Exactly. Plus a few months ago, GECOM told Granger (notice I don't address him as president anymore?) that they wouldn't be ready until November suggesting that they needed some 180 days to conclude the H2H. Suddenly, all the time they need now is 90 days. I refuse to believe that their incompetence suddenly got reduced by 50%. It may just be another time delaying excuse until they come up with other time delaying excuses.

FM
Stormborn posted:

BTW you do not correct a list by discarding it and create an new one. The problems with registration could by itself be corrupting.

Canvassers can be care less, people could be missed for not being at home, out of the jurisdiction or simply refuse. Accuracy is enhanced by keeping the old list, purging it of dead and those who left from official lists of the same. 

Such a list maintained over an extended period will always be more accurate than H2H. Historical data over extended periods means one can run regression analysis to ferret out all sorts of anomalies. 

Why there was no issues with past house to house registration ?

Django
Last edited by Django

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