Ravi Dev Column Kaieteur News May 20, 2007
http://www.landofsixpeoples.co...ws702/nk0705206.html

It is trite to observe that those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. Our present political conflict can be traced to several historical contingencies.

Take the ending of Indian indentureship in 1917. The event marked the beginning of a new era in more ways than one, and not only for Indians. Up to this juncture, while there had been opposition from Africans and Coloureds to the introduction of Indians into Guyana , the opposition had focused on the inequity, to the Creole population, of bringing in competition in labour - and partially at their expense. Now the opposition would be pitched at much higher stakes – the highest - political control of the country.

After the cessation of Indian indenturship, the planters still desired new Indian immigrants – for all the same reasons that had “justified” the old system. However, in 1919, to preclude criticisms based on the old excesses, they proposed a system of indentureship that would involve settling large numbers of Indians immigrants as independent farmers, after they served a three-year contract.

J.A. Luckhoo, (solicitor and first Indian member of the Legislature) and a group of Indians re-launched the BGEIA in Georgetown in April 1919, after it had lapsed since its formation in Berbice in 1916. Mr. Luckhoo and Dr. Hewley Wharton, the first Indian doctor in Guyana , were authorised, on behalf of the BGEIA, to convince the Indian authorities of the feasibility of the scheme.

They reached India in 1919-20 but opposed by Gandhi and others, they failed. However as part of the rationale to convince their Indian audience, they offered that their aim was “to induce more Indians from the motherland to join our ranks, increase our numbers and so help us make British Guiana an Indian Colony."

In reaction to this assertion, which precipitated the inchoate concerns of the African/Coloured leadership, the Negro Progress Convention (NPC) was formed on Aug. 1st 1922.

Hubert Nathaniel Critchlow, the noted labour leader, was a founding member of the Convention, which took an aggressive stand against the Colonisation Scheme. But since they advocated that if necessary, workers should also be imported in equal numbers from Africa, it was obvious, even if they did not state it explicitly, that they were concerned about the strategic implications of the Africans and Coloureds becoming a minority in Guyana.

The question of local political control of the state – tilted in favour of the non-Indian middle class by the 1890 Constitution - was now rising on the agendas of the two major ethnic groups. In 1921, the Indians were just about 42% of the population while Africans were 39% and Coloured – 10%. Even though universal franchise was not even on the horizon, an Indian majority would have meant profound changes for those who expected to inherit power – the Coloured and African elite.

In 1923-24, J.A. Luckhoo and Nunan (Attorney General) visited India once again to get the Scheme approved and this time they were successful. The NPC and BGLU, however, were determined to derail this initiative.

Francis Kawall, President of the BGEIA at this point, and some others in the BGEIA, were now also bitterly opposed to the scheme.

The record shows that from 1919 to 1924 the sugar workers on the East Bank had been in touch with Critchlow (and in 1924 with both Critchlow and Kawall) about their labour grievances. The NPC had petitioned the Colonial Office on the Colonisation Scheme with their concerns about any increased Indian population. The petition adumbrated most of the arguments that would be used against Indians in the following decades, down to the present, about the African Ethnic Security Dilemma.

The Scheme was a “distinct act of discrimination” against Blacks who were entitled to ‘first consideration' since they were the ‘pioneer settlers' of British Guiana . Additionally, the scheme “would tend to rob (Blacks) of their political potentialities, as they would be the minority in any voting contest – the Indian vote would become more than or equal to the votes of any two of the other sections of the community; it would be detrimental to good government and the preservation of the peace…”

“At the celebrations to mark the 5th anniversary of the BGLU, in Jan 1924, A.V. Crane, a Black lawyer…asserted that ‘if the colony was flooded with thousands of people of one race the vested interests of the other races would be affected.” “A.A. Thorne, a prominent Headmaster and Black leader, in a memorandum to the Colonial Office (a month before the Ruimveldt Tragedy) argued that the Colonisation Scheme had produced ‘much friction and aroused racial feeling in the colony'. He saw also saw it as injurious to Black interests, and expressed fears that ‘the introduction of labourers of any favoured race at the expense of the others is both undesirable and dangerous.”

The tragic events at Ruimveldt made the Colonisation scheme moot – and addressed, for the while, immediate concerns about the African Security Dilemma. While some such as Rodney and the PPP had hailed the “multiethnic” nature of the protest of 1924 at Ruimveldt, others such as Prof Clem Seecharan have a different perspective:

“The evidence suggests that the NPC (Negro Progress Convention) used its influence on Critchlow and the BGLU to capitalise on the grievances of predominantly Indian sugar workers on the East Bank Demerara in April 1924…. The disaster at Ruimveldt strengthened Indian fears of the motives of Black leaders.”

Indian support for the BGLU and Critchlow dried up after this tragedy and betrayal and there were no more strikes recorded in the sugar belt until four years later.

While the Colonisation scheme lapsed and the NPL faded, the Coloured and African elite continued to organise themselves in seeking to protect and increase their gains in the power relations. In the zero-sum arrangements of the political system (in 1928 the British had imposed a Crown Colony government on Guyana ) this meant organising against Indians who were making comparatively rapid economic strides in the 1930s.

The United Negro Improvement Association (UNIA) of Marcus Garvey out of the U.S. had formed several branches across Guyana by the thirties. The London-originated League of Coloured People (LCP) however, became the most established organisation and had the most impact in Guyana from the thirties up to the fifties. They were in the forefront to confront what was seen as Indian encroachment on the Coloured preserve during that time. In the words of Ashton Chase, “They were already envious of the economic strides the Indo-Guyanese had made and considered them a threat.”

The threat was not only felt economically, but politically: socially, the Indians were still seen as “backward”. “When power was gradually seen to be passing from the colonial government to local groups in Guyana, a process commencing in the 1930s but not really getting under way until after WWII, a great deal of attention became focused on ethnic or racial associations. For the Africans the League of Coloured Peoples provided this outlet while for the Indians the Guiana East Indian Association, an organisation in existence since 1919, served to promote their interests.”

The Coloureds, because of their White forbears, preferential recruitment into the junior bureaucratic positions of the Civil Service and their greater emulation of ‘English culture', had conferred legitimacy upon themselves as the inheritors of the colonial mantle, with all its pretensions and privileges. The African community had conceded this presumption, and in fact, buttressed it in seeking elevation of their status by entry into the Coloured section through marriage, education, life style and money, which state jobs provided.

The arrival of an Indian middle class in the late thirties; the enlargement of the franchise to include more Indians in 1947; the arrival of the universal franchise in l953, and the political mobilization of the East Indian masses by Dr. Cheddi Jagan from l950, threatened that presumption and precipitated the Ethnic Security Dilemma of the Africans.

The British Guiana Constitutional Commission (1954) noted that the Indians', “very success…has begun to awaken fears in the African section …and it cannot be denied that since India received her independence in 1947 there has been a marked self-assertedness amongst Indians in British Guiana.” By 1950, with universal franchise on the horizon, this assertiveness included competing for political power by leveraging their demographic advantage to address their security concerns.

The potential for ethnic conflict, in Guyana or elsewhere is stimulated when there are changes in the society that cause one or more ethnic groups in the given society to feel threatened by other groups. There were changes aplenty in the thirties and forties.

Compounding this psychological insecurity was the demographic factor and the implications for participating in and eventually controlling the government: by the nineteen-forties, the East Indians had a much greater birth rate than Africans and Coloureds.

Combining their newly acquired economic strides with an imminent majority of voters, in a political arena to be governed by majoritarian rule and universal suffrage, it was now quite clear to both Indian and African thinkers that as the leaders of the NPC had feared, the Indians could deny the Africans control of the Government in perpetuity.

This structural condition created what we have labelled the “Ethnic Security Dilemmas” in the both the African and Indian sections. For the African section, which felt that others who it had categorized as “backward” were bypassing it and that that group may also rule them in perpetuity under the rules of the political game; the situation was untenable. It was rational that Africans would utilise whatever resource would help to equalise the playing field. Their trump card would be their serendipitous domination of the armed forces.

Quantum posted:

 

Carib, you are a good contributor and I deplore any attacks on you of a racial nature. I have no problem with Hinds and Eusi having Afro-centric perspectives. I find many things about them admirable.  Those two have contributed to Guyana, paid their dues.  Also, I can see how the idea of Indians wanting to multiply and dominate (back then) would be upsetting to a black person.  Point taken.  The thing is that is not the central thrust of the article, which still remains unresponded to. 

Hint for responders: See the stuff in bold, above.

Cheers!

 

 

If you analyze Hinds and Eusi they are fundamentally Guyanese.  They are outspoken when there is abuse of Indians.  They do not automatically defend a regime just because it is African dominated. And they are not afraid to call out African racism when they see it.

BOTH men were very vocal when criminals entered Buxton and used it as a base to attack Indians.  BOTH men deplored the fact that poor black boys were being recruited for that purpose.  BOTH men were threatened by these interests because they were both vocal and in fact Eusi even had to flee Guyana because of death threats against him.  Did he receive protection from the gov't of the day, which was the PPP?  NO!  In fact the PPP still peddles a lie that he is a racist Indian hating man.

Yes BOTH men aggressively defend the interests of Afro Guyanese against the predatory and racist attacks by the Indian elite but BOTH men see Guyana as a multi ethnic, multi cultural and multi religious society.  BOTH men yearn for a day when ethnicity in Guyana will not be used as an excuse to exclude.

This makes them very different from people like Ryhaan Shah, Ravi Dev and Bharat Jagdeo who do not have a history of empathy with the concerns of Afro Guyanese.

Django posted:
 

Regarding to tap of labor from the Caribbean,that will be for another research.After the ban on Indian Indentured Labor,Immigrants was sought from the coast of Africa.

 

1.  British West Indian sugar DECLINED everywhere as it took time for the planters to adjust to having a paid work force and to having a work force which advocated for their rights. 

In addition the UK no longer protected sugar from its colonies as it could have sourced it more cheaply from Brazil, Cuba as well as from beet sugar from Europe.  Even Jamaica, then one of the world's largest sugarcane producers under went decline which led to the development of the banana industry.  Labor shortages were NOT an issue on that island and in fact Jamaica was sourced as a labor source by US corporate interests who had projects in various Latin America nations. 

2.  There was NO attempt to source labor from Africa in the 20th century as such attempted HAD ALREADY FAILED.  After slavery ended attempts were made to source labor from Sierra Leone.  Africans were leery based on the fears of being enslaved.  In fact the British were over taxing African subsistence farmers to force them to become laborers in the export crop sectors, which needed labor!

3.  The planters sourced labor from the overcrowded Barbados as their plot was to have a divided labor force that they could exploit.  Their apprehensions with Islanders is that they assimilated rapidly into the local black populations, and so weren't easily exploitable.

By the time the BGEIA advocated its attempt to turn the then British Guiana into a "colony" of India large numbers of Indian indentures had already been sourced.  By then there was no evidence that BG had a labor shortage in its plantation sectors.

The point isn't about indentures bring brought to Guyana and Trinidad.  The point was about the plot of the BGEIA to bring in people from India SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF POLITICAL DOMINATION.  The BGEIA lied about the conditions of indentures in Guyana in order to refute fears by India of abuse.  They described BG as a paradise for Indians, which you know fully well was a LIE.  But they did so to head off attempts by India to end that country as a source of indentures.

ronan posted:

Ravi Dev Column Kaieteur News May 20, 2007
http://www.landofsixpeoples.co...ws702/nk0705206.html

 

 

 

They reached India in 1919-20 but opposed by Gandhi and others, they failed. However as part of the rationale to convince their Indian audience, they offered that their aim was “to induce more Indians from the motherland to join our ranks, increase our numbers and so help us make British Guiana an Indian Colony."

In reaction to this assertion, which precipitated the inchoate concerns of the African/Coloured leadership, the Negro Progress Convention (NPC) was formed on Aug. 1st 1922.

Hubert Nathaniel Critchlow, the noted labour leader, was a founding member of the Convention, which took an aggressive stand against the Colonisation Scheme. But since they advocated that if necessary, workers should also be imported in equal numbers from Africa, it was .

And this fact and not the Burnham Vs. Jagan scramble set the basis for ethnic conflicts in Guyana.  If this element of ethnic competition hadn't been introduced it would have been likely that blacks and Indians would have formed alliances against the colonial orthodoxy as both were clearly being exploited for the benefit of the oligarchs.

Please note that this is sourced from Ravi Dev, a man NOT sympathetic to black Guyanese.  Even here the notion of ethnic domination on the part of the BGEIA was implied.

caribny posted:
Django posted:
 

Regarding to tap of labor from the Caribbean,that will be for another research.After the ban on Indian Indentured Labor,Immigrants was sought from the coast of Africa.

 

1.  British West Indian sugar DECLINED everywhere as it took time for the planters to adjust to having a paid work force and to having a work force which advocated for their rights. 

In addition the UK no longer protected sugar from its colonies as it could have sourced it more cheaply from Brazil, Cuba as well as from beet sugar from Europe.  Even Jamaica, then one of the world's largest sugarcane producers under went decline which led to the development of the banana industry.  Labor shortages were NOT an issue on that island and in fact Jamaica was sourced as a labor source by US corporate interests who had projects in various Latin America nations. 

2.  There was NO attempt to source labor from Africa in the 20th century as such attempted HAD ALREADY FAILED.  After slavery ended attempts were made to source labor from Sierra Leone.  Africans were leery based on the fears of being enslaved.  In fact the British were over taxing African subsistence farmers to force them to become laborers in the export crop sectors, which needed labor!

3.  The planters sourced labor from the overcrowded Barbados as their plot was to have a divided labor force that they could exploit.  Their apprehensions with Islanders is that they assimilated rapidly into the local black populations, and so weren't easily exploitable.

By the time the BGEIA advocated its attempt to turn the then British Guiana into a "colony" of India large numbers of Indian indentures had already been sourced.  By then there was no evidence that BG had a labor shortage in its plantation sectors.

The point isn't about indentures bring brought to Guyana and Trinidad.  The point was about the plot of the BGEIA to bring in people from India SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF POLITICAL DOMINATION.  The BGEIA lied about the conditions of indentures in Guyana in order to refute fears by India of abuse.  They described BG as a paradise for Indians, which you know fully well was a LIE.  But they did so to head off attempts by India to end that country as a source of indentures.

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

seignet posted:

 

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

I am telling you racist dog that the issues between Indians and blacks is NOT because of Burnham.  It is NOT because of Wismar.  It is because the BGEIA wanted to make Guyana into an Indian dominated country.  That set up the tensions which persist until this day. 

And it persists because the behavior of the PPP in its 23 years of rule confirmed to blacks that they CANNOT expect fair treatment under an Indian dominated regime.   The reality is that most Indians have a problem in understanding that Guyana is a multi ethnic country, that what they do impacts other groups, and if these groups feel that their interests are compromised then they will react to it.

You don't have your little 100% Indesh yet. If you want this Uttar Pradesh or Bihar is available.

seignet posted:

Immigration stopped because Gandhi felt the treatment of Indians were poor in the colonies yet many Indians went to Africa working in building the railroads.

You all cannot have your cake and eat it too.  You scream that indenture was as bad as slavery which is why India stopped it.  The BGEIA tried to fool the gov't of India that life in BG was great and that Indians should migrate there, even when not needed for work on the estates.

The goal of the BGEIA was to have an Indian population which outnumbered the African and colored populations. They wanted this so that they would dominate BG if universal suffrage were to be implemented.

If Venezuelans swamped Guyana in 2018 and then demanded to dominate that country because of higher numbers I bet you will object.  So try to see it from the point of view of those who were in BG in 1924.  They were NOT going to allow their interests to be compromised and to be ignored because an immigrant group outnumbered them.

Labba posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

caribny posted:
seignet posted:

Immigration stopped because Gandhi felt the treatment of Indians were poor in the colonies yet many Indians went to Africa working in building the railroads.

You all cannot have your cake and eat it too.  You scream that indenture was as bad as slavery which is why India stopped it.  The BGEIA tried to fool the gov't of India that life in BG was great and that Indians should migrate there, even when not needed for work on the estates.

The goal of the BGEIA was to have an Indian population which outnumbered the African and colored populations. They wanted this so that they would dominate BG if universal suffrage were to be implemented.

If Venezuelans swamped Guyana in 2018 and then demanded to dominate that country because of higher numbers I bet you will object.  So try to see it from the point of view of those who were in BG in 1924.  They were NOT going to allow their interests to be compromised and to be ignored because an immigrant group outnumbered them.

Carib,

You on to something that have some merit,the Luckhoo-Noonan Scheme may have triggered the division,between the two major ethnic group of Guyana.

I haven't got time as yet to read up on the old documents during that period.

Labba posted:
 

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

I have said many times that "creole Guyanese" (Africans, mixed and Portuguese) have a different sense of ethnicity and nationhood than do Indians.  We see ourselves first and foremost as Guyanese.  We define our ethnicity within the context of Guyanese.  Our ethnic identities are also fluid. 

The majority of Indians put an emphasis on their "Indian" identity.  There are conversations about the degree to which they connect with India and the degree to which they are accepted by Indians.  I have NEVER seen any conversation about similar levels of identifications of "creole Guyanese".  To the contrary most Indians do not seem to understand this concept of a creole culture and in fact see it as a form of ethnic genocide.

So black people aren't interested in populating Guyana with Haitians.  I bet if thousands of Haitians suddenly arrived, with their foreign language and customs many Afro Guyanese will not be happy.  We don't see our salvation in setting up some "African kingdom".   On the other hand whether Indo Guyanese agree or disagree with the concept of Indesh (and I will not opine on which will be the dominant opinion) they can certainly Understand the concept of some "Indian homeland" whether or not they agree with this notion.

We on the other hand cannot even agree as to whether David Granger and Raphael Trotman are "black" or "mixed.   We don't have a mutually agreed upon notion as to what is "African" culture in Guyana.  There is way more fluidity in creole identities.  Ravi Dev and Prashad view this as a weakness. I on the other hand view this as a strength in that we aren't locked tightly into some box and have more freedom in individually defining ourselves as we wish.

Django posted:
 

Carib,

You on to something that have some merit,the Luckhoo-Noonan Scheme may have triggered the division,between the two major ethnic group of Guyana.

I haven't got time as yet to read up on the old documents during that period.

It did.  The black and mixed people were trying to find some space for themselves within a hostile colonial environment and along comes the BGEIA to further complicate things.  Had the BGEIA approached this as allies I bet that their assistance in battling colonial administrations and the planter class would have been welcomed.  After all it was the 3 groups, coloreds, Africans and Indians who to varying degrees, were marginalized.  So too were the power "creole whites" and the Portuguese and Chinese, even if to a lesser degree.

Do you know that the minimal amount of self rule that BG had was removed because the whites were terrified that they would lose dominance over the administration of the colony?  So they vested enlarged powers away from the LegCo to the governor and those who he appointed.  By the early 20th C over 40% of the electors were black or colored.  In those days voting was based on male property ownership, not on universal adult suffrage.

It is to be noted that in T&T there is less black vs. Indian hostility than in Guyana.  I suspect that this is because there wasn't as long lived tensions between the two groups as is true for Guyana.  Even as their politics is dominated by ethnicity there is a large swing vote there (maybe as much as 20%).  In Guyana the ethnic swing vote is probably no more than 5%.

ronan posted:
 

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

They all know that its true.  Ravi Dev let the cat out of the bag.  They preferred the cat to remain hidden in the bag, with claws bared ready to scratch.  When you see Baseman start to cuss and carry on stink you know that he knows that he has lost the argument.

i used Ravi Dev's article for the simple reason that it would be difficult for the denialist scoundrels to prolong the 'debate' given the author's 'impeccable' Hindutva pedigree

in fact, there are a number of very good (and not so good) sources on this piece of history, including Odeen Ishmael and Clem Seecharran

the key event was the Luckhoo-Wharton 1919-1920 effort freighted with the 'Indian colony" appeal 

it should be noted that there were 2 separate initiatives . . . 1919-1920 and 1923-1924 (Luckhoo-Nunan)

as i acknowledged elsewhere, this stuff is nearly a century in the past and, aside from the neo-Hindutva Guyana crowd (that includes the fellow traveling Jagdeoite tiefman crew and opportunist NEPS associates), this is not a live issue with young Indo-Guyanese today

Baseman and Seignet would prefer to shout down the truth (actually called it a "lie") because it does not serve the "sacred victimhood" narrative that is the oxygen of divide-and-rule majoritarian race politics in Guyana

ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

Hey hey hey...yu is a true Kean Gibsonite along wid de black bai KKK CaribJ. Ayoo rising up ole 19 century coolie bacoo, ole higue and moon gazer foh justify ayoo anti-coolie apartheid government under de one lover, church goer, do gooder, jesus prayin President Granger. Ayoo only hiring ayoo mattie blackman...anyhow yu go to yuh chuch and speak in tongues dis weekend...hey hey hey... 

caribny posted:
ronan posted:
 

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

They all know that its true.  Ravi Dev let the cat out of the bag.  They preferred the cat to remain hidden in the bag, with claws bared ready to scratch.  When you see Baseman start to cuss and carry on stink you know that he knows that he has lost the argument.

Hey hey hey...abie Kean Gibsonite black bai KKK gat plan foh pack de place wid dem Haiti peopkle...suh ayoo gat foh find 19 century jumbie...hey hey hey...how ayoo apartheid government under de one lover, jesus prayin president going? Hey hey hey...

Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

Hey hey hey...yu is a true Kean Gibsonite along wid de black bai KKK CaribJ. Ayoo rising up ole 19 century coolie bacoo, ole higue and moon gazer foh justify ayoo anti-coolie apartheid government under de one lover, church goer, do gooder, jesus prayin President Granger. Ayoo only hiring ayoo mattie blackman...anyhow yu go to yuh chuch and speak in tongues dis weekend...hey hey hey... 

when you run out of facts, when the 'intellectual' ile can pan empty . . .  alyuh MO is pelt couple random cuss, preferably loaded up with race slander, and slink away

uh huh

and actually mr labba, the events are nearly a hundred years old but still 20th Century!

maths likely not your strong point

try keep up

ronan posted:
Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

Hey hey hey...yu is a true Kean Gibsonite along wid de black bai KKK CaribJ. Ayoo rising up ole 19 century coolie bacoo, ole higue and moon gazer foh justify ayoo anti-coolie apartheid government under de one lover, church goer, do gooder, jesus prayin President Granger. Ayoo only hiring ayoo mattie blackman...anyhow yu go to yuh chuch and speak in tongues dis weekend...hey hey hey... 

when you run out of facts, when the 'intellectual' ile can pan empty . . .  alyuh MO is pelt couple random cuss, preferably loaded up with race slander, and slink away

uh huh

and actually mr labba, it's a century old but still 20th Century

try keep up

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

Labba posted:

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

First you divide by race, now religion (which has nothing to do with the topic under discussion). You been eating too much of Dev's feces, or maybe this is the true you.

Iguana posted:
Labba posted:

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

First you divide by race, now religion (which has nothing to do with the topic under discussion). You been eating too much of Dev's feces, or maybe this is the true you.

Eh eh...guana de next secret black bai KKK settin up dem apartheid govt wake up...hey hey hey...

Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

Hey hey hey...yu is a true Kean Gibsonite along wid de black bai KKK CaribJ. Ayoo rising up ole 19 century coolie bacoo, ole higue and moon gazer foh justify ayoo anti-coolie apartheid government under de one lover, church goer, do gooder, jesus prayin President Granger. Ayoo only hiring ayoo mattie blackman...anyhow yu go to yuh chuch and speak in tongues dis weekend...hey hey hey... 

when you run out of facts, when the 'intellectual' ile can pan empty . . .  alyuh MO is pelt couple random cuss, preferably loaded up with race slander, and slink away

uh huh

and actually mr labba, it's a century old but still 20th Century

try keep up

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

look you math-challenged jackass, this all started because Seignet and Baseman panicked (like you), LOOKED FACTS IN THE EYE, and called it a lie

now, gwan dahside with yuh allied lies and red herring race shyte 

ronan posted:
Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Hey hey hey...soh ayoo bringin in dem Haitian blackman dem or wa? Ayoo plannin and schemin? And seeing coolie jumbie, bacoo, moon gazer, doopy and all dem? Hey hey hey...

Seignet pan he knees seh is a lie

Baseman snarling and cussin seh is lie

Ravi Dev with he haan pan the Gita seh is true

Labba, in crisis, running around with he brain pan lock down asking anybody who care to listen if they want to sample rotten red herring

fascinating . . . ah goin and microwave some popcorn

Hey hey hey...yu is a true Kean Gibsonite along wid de black bai KKK CaribJ. Ayoo rising up ole 19 century coolie bacoo, ole higue and moon gazer foh justify ayoo anti-coolie apartheid government under de one lover, church goer, do gooder, jesus prayin President Granger. Ayoo only hiring ayoo mattie blackman...anyhow yu go to yuh chuch and speak in tongues dis weekend...hey hey hey... 

when you run out of facts, when the 'intellectual' ile can pan empty . . .  alyuh MO is pelt couple random cuss, preferably loaded up with race slander, and slink away

uh huh

and actually mr labba, it's a century old but still 20th Century

try keep up

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

look you math-challenged jackass, this all started because Seignet and Baseman panicked (like you), LOOKED FACTS IN THE EYE, and called it a lie

now, gwan dahside with yuh allied lies and red herring race shyte 

Hey hey hey...ok...ayoo know foh count dem Haitians good na? Hey hey hey...ayoo need foh rig and gig 3000 votes na? Hey hey hey...

Iguana posted:
Labba posted:

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

First you divide by race, now religion (which has nothing to do with the topic under discussion). You been eating too much of Dev's feces, or maybe this is the true you.

it's ALL him

ronan posted:
Iguana posted:
Labba posted:

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

First you divide by race, now religion (which has nothing to do with the topic under discussion). You been eating too much of Dev's feces, or maybe this is the true you.

it's ALL him

Hey hey hey...I can spot wan black bai KKK fram 100 mile...hey hey hey...

Ray posted:

this conversation is part of the reason Guyana is still where it's at in terms of development and race relations....we can't seem to learn from the past, just prefer to squabble over nonsense

it is NOT "nonsense" to call out dissemblers who stare facts down and call it a lie

for context . . . there was a bestial pogrom against Indian people by afro terrorists at Wismar in 1964

i have NEVER heard any Afro-Guyanese here characterize that event as a "lie" or cuss those referencing it as KKK or racists

thanks

Ray posted:

this conversation is part of the reason Guyana is still where it's at in terms of development and race relations....we can't seem to learn from the past, just prefer to squabble over nonsense

Doh is not de reason...story gat seven sides...

Labba posted:
Ray posted:

this conversation is part of the reason Guyana is still where it's at in terms of development and race relations....we can't seem to learn from the past, just prefer to squabble over nonsense

Doh is not de reason...story gat seven sides...

what is the other side(s)?

more to the point, what exactly is "untrue" about Ravi Dev's reporting on the 1919 expedition? 

Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Iguana posted:
Labba posted:

Yea...is true 100 year but ayoo Kean Gibsonite need dis ole higue foh set up de new apartheid regime under de good christian dem runnin guyana. Hey hey hey...by de way all dem doh was coolie christian. De Hindu one like Dr JB Singh was busy helping poor peopkle. Suh next time ayoo meet up in ayoo christian chuch foh kneel, pray and scheme...ayoo remember dat. Hey hey hey...

First you divide by race, now religion (which has nothing to do with the topic under discussion). You been eating too much of Dev's feces, or maybe this is the true you.

it's ALL him

Hey hey hey...I can spot wan black bai KKK fram 100 mile...hey hey hey...

Labbaman, when you defend your Indian race against negroes, it's called racism. You are labeled as Indo KKK. When Banned For Life Redux alias Ronan defends negroes and preaches black racism against coolies, he cusses out anyone(antiman...etc.) who labels him a Negro KKK.

skeldon_man posted:

When Banned For Life Redux alias Ronan defends negroes and preaches black racism against coolies, he cusses out anyone(antiman...etc.) who labels him a Negro KKK.

bai, labba nah reach your stink bigot level . . . yet

he doan have your matchless facility with the "N" word

i understand that you will hate me forever, but i will never tire of lifting up your dress and exposing the race disease you now wish to be 'private'

Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

So, what is your point. About 4 generation passed away since, and you still cursed with the lie that Indians wanted to take over a British Colony which was no way considering to be given independence or dominion status because the natives were blacks.

Did you not read the Ravi Dev article posted by Ronan earlier in this thread? Dev, who is far from sympathetic to Afro Guyanese, detailed the plans to establish Guyana as an Indian country and to flood it with Indians via the agenda of the BGEIA. How can you call this a lie when there is factual historical evidence for it?

I think this is a big part of the political mistrust and tension between blacks and Indians, don't you think?

Do you see the word "assertion" in the article? 

ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Ray posted:

this conversation is part of the reason Guyana is still where it's at in terms of development and race relations....we can't seem to learn from the past, just prefer to squabble over nonsense

Doh is not de reason...story gat seven sides...

what is the other side(s)?

more to the point, what exactly is "untrue" about Ravi Dev's reporting on the 1919 expedition? 

Hey hey hey...yu seh yuh is a read man...me seh ayoo bringin up de ole story because ayoo gat plans foh change de population. Ayoo need ayoo justification while ayoo rub up good de daag councie pon other peopkle. Hey hey hey...

ronan posted:
skeldon_man posted:

When Banned For Life Redux alias Ronan defends negroes and preaches black racism against coolies, he cusses out anyone(antiman...etc.) who labels him a Negro KKK.

bai, labba nah reach your stink bigot level . . . yet

he doan have your matchless facility with the "N" word

i understand that you will hate me forever, but i will never tire of lifting up your dress and exposing the race disease you now wish to be 'private'

You are the most extreme negro racist on GNI. Gwan dah side and find some treatment for your diseased kakahole.

skeldon_man posted:
ronan posted:
skeldon_man posted:

When Banned For Life Redux alias Ronan defends negroes and preaches black racism against coolies, he cusses out anyone(antiman...etc.) who labels him a Negro KKK.

bai, labba nah reach your stink bigot level . . . yet

he doan have your matchless facility with the "N" word

i understand that you will hate me forever, but i will never tire of lifting up your dress and exposing the race disease you now wish to be 'private'

You are the most extreme negro racist on GNI. Gwan dah side and find some treatment for your diseased kakahole.

Two Black Klansmen on a roll!

Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:
Ray posted:

this conversation is part of the reason Guyana is still where it's at in terms of development and race relations....we can't seem to learn from the past, just prefer to squabble over nonsense

Doh is not de reason...story gat seven sides...

what is the other side(s)?

more to the point, what exactly is "untrue" about Ravi Dev's reporting on the 1919 expedition? 

Hey hey hey...yu seh yuh is a read man...me seh ayoo bringin up de ole story because ayoo gat plans foh change de population. Ayoo need ayoo justification while ayoo rub up good de daag councie pon other peopkle. Hey hey hey...

we can 'debate' your fantasies on another thread if you like

but, here, you still can't answer a (my) simple question

waitin . . . 

caribny posted:
seignet posted:

Immigration stopped because Gandhi felt the treatment of Indians were poor in the colonies yet many Indians went to Africa working in building the railroads.

You all cannot have your cake and eat it too.  You scream that indenture was as bad as slavery which is why India stopped it.  The BGEIA tried to fool the gov't of India that life in BG was great and that Indians should migrate there, even when not needed for work on the estates.

The goal of the BGEIA was to have an Indian population which outnumbered the African and colored populations. They wanted this so that they would dominate BG if universal suffrage were to be implemented.

If Venezuelans swamped Guyana in 2018 and then demanded to dominate that country because of higher numbers I bet you will object.  So try to see it from the point of view of those who were in BG in 1924.  They were NOT going to allow their interests to be compromised and to be ignored because an immigrant group outnumbered them.

By 1924, the Portugese had al yuh up in arms-burning and looting. Why alyuh was doing that when we were still on the plantations? They stripped you all of everything emancipation afforded your ppl.

Hatred for Indian ppl caused you all to be robbed by the Putagees. Now, you claiming the Indians forever has a scheme to marginalize blacks. 

You should concentrate and disect the entire history of Guyana, instead of focusing on Indians.

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