antabanta posted:
 

Liquor reduces inhibitions and may be the catalyst but there has to be something deeper that prompts the anger that results in violence. A part of the problem may be peer pressure on men to "control" their women. How will women know they don't have to remain in a detrimental situation?

Liquor might trigger the timid male but a lot of abuse come from alpha males.   I find too much focus on alcoholism in all of this.  Even if liquor is a trigger there is an underlying cause because not all drunk men go ahead beating up their wives or girl friends.

Alpha men don't need peer pressure either because most men don't engage in this type of violence and huge numbers even deplore it.  Evidence here on GNI.  No one has made excuses for this and I think all will be embarrassed if it becomes publicly knowledge that they engage in it.

antabanta posted:
 

people in many communities are reluctant to interfere in husband and wife story, justified in many cases because "she must be do something to deserve it."

Now we are getting closer to it.

1.  Some women are financially dependent on their men so fear leaving them, especially if they have kids.

2. Some women are terrified that their men are so violent that if they leave sure death will follow if these men find them.

3. Some women still (oddly enough) love these men and so tolerate this behavior and they lack the strength to save themselves.

4. Especially among the 50+ age cohort some women still might believe that their husband has a right to dominate them and to use violence as a controlling mechanism.

5. Many women lack a supporting social network so cannot lean on others to protect them or to give them the strength.

6.  In the Caribbean the authorities aren't really serious about protect victims of domestic violence.  Are "order of protection" decrees enforced?  Do the police take the women seriously when they complain.

If we are serious about reducing domestic abuse we will focus especially on the last two points.

Drugb posted:
 

First things first, djangy needs an editor. In terms of your discussion on Guyana, do you even live there? Those Guyanese actually living in Guyana and putting up with the hell hole created by the PNC will tell you to take care of your own ills before looking down your nose at them and telling them what to do. 

Druggie domestic violence has NOTHING to do with politics so why bring it up?  Secondly domestic abuse is very evident among Guyanese HERE IN NYC, so whether we live or don't live in Guyana it remains a relevant concern. 

Guyanese men who beat up their women in Guyana continue to do so when they migrate.  The only difference is that the authorities in NYC are more sympathetic to women than they are in Guyana so a call to the police will result in a jail sentence quite likely.  

In fact in NYC sometimes even the threat of violence can have legal consequences so maybe we are more careful here, but a certain mindset still exists. 

Sheik101 . 

Bgurd, sometimes u make me think that youre not wrapped too tightly. What does the PNC got to do with the matter at hand? You do realize that during the PPP reign these very things presented here occured. Nothing has changed.

Its his racist nature. All societal problems are created by blacks whether they are directly responsible or not.  So in his little head if an Indo man kills his woman "black man still to blame".

Nehru posted:

Ray, Parents need to guide their Kids from very young. Yes, they must be allowed to think and act independently BUT most of us know that what children hear/see when they are young affects them.

Guyana is a chaotic society, the results being complete disrespect for life. Whether it is race politics or policemen shaking down citizens, there is no order of society.

Identifying the problem is fantastic.

And that is it.

Solutions will not be forthcoming because NO ONE CARES for the other.

Indians kill Indians, that is an indian problem. I agree on that.

Doan expect anymore from Granger on the issue of women safety from the men folk of Guyana.

Good thread!

As mentioned before, the mindset of being DA MAN and looking down on the woman starts from a young age, women are seen as the weaker sex and man has the upper hand. Someone here mentioned building places for these women to go for their safety and not feel they have to stick around for another beating, this is good for now to get them out of harm's way but the authorities should act quickly on these matters by tossing these creeps in jail after giving them a good thumping with the phone book, letting the man know there will always be consequences for their actions.

Another mention was on a jingle, this may seem simple but at least it gets into the heads of the young and hopefully as they age the mentality of man having to hurt the woman is removed.

These abusers need to be tied to a house post, handcuffed and be allowed to run around the post. Let the woman and her family do the beating and let's see how he feels. I saw this happening in one African country to a bunch of teenagers who raped a woman. There were about 4-5 naked teenagers tied around the post and a bunch of women doing the beating.  

skeldon_man posted:

I saw this happening in one African country to a bunch of teenagers who raped a woman. There were about 4-5 naked teenagers tied around the post and a bunch of women doing the beating.  

...were you visiting ancestral relatives at the time, Skelly?

Iguana posted:
skeldon_man posted:

I saw this happening in one African country to a bunch of teenagers who raped a woman. There were about 4-5 naked teenagers tied around the post and a bunch of women doing the beating.  

...were you visiting ancestral relatives at the time, Skelly?

Gwanaman, I saw this on 60 minutes a while ago. I thought it was a fitting punishment for the criminals. I have no desire to visit any ancestral land. I have seen the scorn the Indians show to their own and Indians from other parts of the world. Let them continue shitting in their yards, on train tracks or hang their asses off of any elevated object...even their windows..

yuji22 posted:

Another excellent thread by Anta. Another thread was closed earlier since it was based on race baiting and served no useful purpose. 

First, this issue affects women of all races in Guyana but mostly affect Indo Guyanese women who suffer at the hands of very abusive Indo Guyanese men. Most of the Indo Guyanese abusers are heavy drinkers who are the biggest culprits. 

Our Indo Guyanese community should be ashamed of themselves to allow this habit to continue to grow, our spiritual leaders and churches have also failed us miserably.

We need to learn from others communities like the Afro Guyanese community which does appear to have been able to deal with this problem since they have a more cohesive Church and Social community organization.

Schools should have mandatory classes on social behaviour and Anti Violence Courses. The education system need to implement these types of courses to at least prepare the next generation. Jagdeo abused  his wife and the PPP failed us miserably.

The current administration can bring badly needed change. Bring back prayers in schools, saying Christian prayers in schools did not make me less of a Hindu. 

Iguana provided us with the best solution. 

The problem though is that the current crop of politicians do not seem interested in dealing with this epidemic. Granger has shown willingness to address the problem, the PPP needs to step up to the plate. 

Yuji22

This is an epidemic which by definition affects everyone - including spiritual leaders and community organizations. The diseased cannot cure the disease. While it might be less prevalent within afro-guyanese communities they are not exempt. Just in April this year, a captain in the GDF shot his mistress. I met him the night before the crime and his manner and conduct gave no hint he was capable of such an act. But your point is valid and we must ask why is it more prevalent in Indo communities. Is it because rural areas are predominantly Indian and their living conditions are poor? Is there a disparity in the number of women murdered in crimes of passion between urban and rural areas? Instead of re-introducing religion in schools, wouldn't it be better to address the actual issue in schools? Isn't it better to start teaching children how to handle rejection and to understand that men don't own women and teach them respect? Isn't better to let children know of the negative impact of peer pressure and teach to refuse to be goaded into acts of brutality?

Iguana posted:
antabanta posted:

Liquor reduces inhibitions and may be the catalyst but there has to be something deeper that prompts the anger that results in violence. A part of the problem may be peer pressure on men to "control" their women. How will women know they don't have to remain in a detrimental situation?

The catalysts could be many. However, the situation is dire, so in order to stop the bleeding (no pun intended) it is crucial that women in domestic violence situations have some place to go and not stay and "tek it". Y'all and the psychologists can tek yuh time to figure out the many reasons, but meanwhile the current victims need some redress. 

In the first world countries there are places for these women to go. I favor the establishment of centers or homes for them. NGO's (churches, civic organizations, etc.) can play a huge part in this. If there is even one home for 50 women set up, then that's 50 women removed from a dangerous situation. I'm of course hoping for far more than that given how pervasive the problem is.

You ask how women will know they don't have to remain in a detrimental situation. When I was a child in Georgetown, fatal traffic accidents were on the rise due to more people being able to afford cars, and many more driving drunk. I used to hear this jingle on the radio:

Don't drink and drive,
don't drive too fass.
If yuh reach a major road,
stop and don't pass.
(something, something) road safety,
and you will save de lives of humanity.

As you can see, it's embedded in my head decades later. People were aware of the need to drive carefully and accidents went down.

A similar approach is needed to alerting not just women, but the entire society to the evils of domestic violence. Today we have social media, the internet, TV, etc. to bring national attention to the problem. Why not use it? EVERYONE will know there is an alternative for DV victims.

The problem is - the usual Guyanese mentality. This has been an issue for over 50 years going back to plantation days and NEITHER party, and not even the AFC for that matter has seen fit to address it. Why is this not allotted to a ministry for oversight? Why isn't the first lady or someone as visible taking this up as a cause, not just drawing attention to it, but crafting solutions with civic organizations, NGO's etc?

I support the idea of an ongoing campaign to embed the idea. The reason no one is drawing attention to the matter may be because there isn't enough noise.

caribny posted:
antabanta posted:
 

people in many communities are reluctant to interfere in husband and wife story, justified in many cases because "she must be do something to deserve it."

Now we are getting closer to it.

1.  Some women are financially dependent on their men so fear leaving them, especially if they have kids.

2. Some women are terrified that their men are so violent that if they leave sure death will follow if these men find them.

3. Some women still (oddly enough) love these men and so tolerate this behavior and they lack the strength to save themselves.

4. Especially among the 50+ age cohort some women still might believe that their husband has a right to dominate them and to use violence as a controlling mechanism.

5. Many women lack a supporting social network so cannot lean on others to protect them or to give them the strength.

6.  In the Caribbean the authorities aren't really serious about protect victims of domestic violence.  Are "order of protection" decrees enforced?  Do the police take the women seriously when they complain.

If we are serious about reducing domestic abuse we will focus especially on the last two points.

So we can at least establish the problem is not ethnic.

Alcohol has different individual chemical interaction which might depend on the person's emotions at the time.

The last two points, while addressing valid issues, are not causes of the problem. Focusing on them will not bring us closer to a solution, if there is a solution.

seignet posted:
Nehru posted:

Ray, Parents need to guide their Kids from very young. Yes, they must be allowed to think and act independently BUT most of us know that what children hear/see when they are young affects them.

Guyana is a chaotic society, the results being complete disrespect for life. Whether it is race politics or policemen shaking down citizens, there is no order of society.

Identifying the problem is fantastic.

And that is it.

Solutions will not be forthcoming because NO ONE CARES for the other.

Indians kill Indians, that is an indian problem. I agree on that.

Doan expect anymore from Granger on the issue of women safety from the men folk of Guyana.

This thread shows many people who care, from all races and who support various parties. Sorry to disappoint you.

cain posted:

Good thread!

As mentioned before, the mindset of being DA MAN and looking down on the woman starts from a young age, women are seen as the weaker sex and man has the upper hand. Someone here mentioned building places for these women to go for their safety and not feel they have to stick around for another beating, this is good for now to get them out of harm's way but the authorities should act quickly on these matters by tossing these creeps in jail after giving them a good thumping with the phone book, letting the man know there will always be consequences for their actions.

Another mention was on a jingle, this may seem simple but at least it gets into the heads of the young and hopefully as they age the mentality of man having to hurt the woman is removed.

So we have to change the mentality of men to develop more respect for women. If jail was an adequate deterrent to crime, they would not be overflowing.

skeldon_man posted:

These abusers need to be tied to a house post, handcuffed and be allowed to run around the post. Let the woman and her family do the beating and let's see how he feels. I saw this happening in one African country to a bunch of teenagers who raped a woman. There were about 4-5 naked teenagers tied around the post and a bunch of women doing the beating.  

Did the beating significantly reduce rape in that country? If not, then something else is needed - like mental rewiring.

Gilbakka posted:

I haven't read news reports of domestic violence in Portuguese households in Guyana. Seems like Portuguese men respect their women. 

Again, could this be a location issue? Portuguese are not known to live in rural areas. Also, they are a very small percentage of the population with a corresponding small proportion of such crimes. But from what I know of Guyana and Guyanese, I don't think ethnicity is relevant.

antabanta posted:
skeldon_man posted:

These abusers need to be tied to a house post, handcuffed and be allowed to run around the post. Let the woman and her family do the beating and let's see how he feels. I saw this happening in one African country to a bunch of teenagers who raped a woman. There were about 4-5 naked teenagers tied around the post and a bunch of women doing the beating.  

Did the beating significantly reduce rape in that country? If not, then something else is needed - like mental rewiring.

There was no follow up so I don't know, but I thought it was a good display of justice. Incidentally, the dudes were handed over to the authorities after the beatings.
I saw the physical abuse my mother took from time to time. This was not isolated in our household only.  At times she wanted to commit suicide. She was a strong woman. None of our brothers turned out to be abusers.

antabanta posted:
seignet posted:
Nehru posted:

Ray, Parents need to guide their Kids from very young. Yes, they must be allowed to think and act independently BUT most of us know that what children hear/see when they are young affects them.

Guyana is a chaotic society, the results being complete disrespect for life. Whether it is race politics or policemen shaking down citizens, there is no order of society.

Identifying the problem is fantastic.

And that is it.

Solutions will not be forthcoming because NO ONE CARES for the other.

Indians kill Indians, that is an indian problem. I agree on that.

Doan expect anymore from Granger on the issue of women safety from the men folk of Guyana.

This thread shows many people who care, from all races and who support various parties. Sorry to disappoint you.

And the problem still exists. Dey ain doing a good enough job.

Domestic violence prevails in every society even though it can be argued that it is more prevalent on some Eastern societies. Anti-Indian elements on this forum love to post articles to reinforce the negative stereotypes of Indian men as the violent male-Chauvinist. The American court system punishes violent husbands because the abuse of women in this society has been a major problem and it still is. I am not defending the actions of violent Indian men. All I'm saying it is wrong to politicize it and blow it out of proportion.

seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:
Nehru posted:

Ray, Parents need to guide their Kids from very young. Yes, they must be allowed to think and act independently BUT most of us know that what children hear/see when they are young affects them.

Guyana is a chaotic society, the results being complete disrespect for life. Whether it is race politics or policemen shaking down citizens, there is no order of society.

Identifying the problem is fantastic.

And that is it.

Solutions will not be forthcoming because NO ONE CARES for the other.

Indians kill Indians, that is an indian problem. I agree on that.

Doan expect anymore from Granger on the issue of women safety from the men folk of Guyana.

This thread shows many people who care, from all races and who support various parties. Sorry to disappoint you.

And the problem still exists. Dey ain doing a good enough job.

Must all your replies be asinine?

Gilbakka posted:

I haven't read news reports of domestic violence in Portuguese households in Guyana. Seems like Portuguese men respect their women. 

There are very few of them in Guyana so the law of probabilities say that you will not hear of too many.

seignet posted:
antabanta posted:

This thread shows many people who care, from all races and who support various parties. Sorry to disappoint you.

And the problem still exists. Dey ain doing a good enough job.

The only job we're doing is talk about the problem and bring attention to it. No one here is looking to fix the problem tomorrow or next year or anytime soon but in order to find a solution, we have to actually look at the problem. That's not too difficult to understand... right?

antabanta posted:
 

This is an epidemic which by definition affects everyone - including spiritual leaders and community organizations.

Not saying that the "spiritual" don't engage in domestic violence but sometimes we preach to the choir.

Women need to know that there is a safe space to escape abusive husbands.  That is the beginning.  Once more can do this then the law can do what it should.  When abusive men find out that their deeds will be punished I think that many will think before they act.

Its an attitude of entitlement that too many men have and sadly too many women are brainwashed into thinking that this is behavior that they should accept.

I hope that this is no longer acceptable but growing up in Guyana in the 70s  I remember hearing some women say "if he don' beat me dat mean he don' love me".  So both genders were enabling domestic abuse.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Domestic violence prevails in every society even though it can be argued that it is more prevalent on some Eastern societies. Anti-Indian elements on this forum love to post articles to reinforce the negative stereotypes of Indian men as the violent male-Chauvinist. The American court system punishes violent husbands because the abuse of women in this society has been a major problem and it still is. I am not defending the actions of violent Indian men. All I'm saying it is wrong to politicize it and blow it out of proportion.

Maybe abuse is more prevalent within Indian communities not because the male is more chauvinistic but because the women are more timid and docile?

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Anti-Indian elements on this forum love to post articles to reinforce the negative stereotypes of Indian men as the violent male-Chauvinist.

Not to derail this but anti black posters love to highlight every crime as evidence of black criminality even before they find out who the perpetrators were.  In some instances the perps ended up being Indians.

This has now stopped within recent years as Indo on Indo violence has become too rampant to ignore.

Even you will concede that there is way more discussion of negative black stereotypes on GNI than on any other ethnic group.

antabanta posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Domestic violence prevails in every society even though it can be argued that it is more prevalent on some Eastern societies. Anti-Indian elements on this forum love to post articles to reinforce the negative stereotypes of Indian men as the violent male-Chauvinist. The American court system punishes violent husbands because the abuse of women in this society has been a major problem and it still is. I am not defending the actions of violent Indian men. All I'm saying it is wrong to politicize it and blow it out of proportion.

Maybe abuse is more prevalent within Indian communities not because the male is more chauvinistic but because the women are more timid and docile?

Indian women are very aggressive. Just ask Mitwah and Django how fearful they are of being thrown out of the house.

antabanta posted:
 

Maybe abuse is more prevalent within Indian communities not because the male is more chauvinistic but because the women are more timid and docile?

I think that we need to stop saying "Indian" and then start looking at the segments of the Indian population that this seems to occur most often.

I suggest that it might be more prevalent in the rural areas where there are fewer employment opportunities for women, so they are more dependent on their menfolk (not only husbands by the way but even fathers and brothers).    

is this a feature of life for more urbanized Indian women who live in and around G/T which offers vastly more scope for women to be independent?  This means they marry when they want to, to whom they want to, and if that person is a bad man they can also leave that person.  They likely have more social support networks to enable them to deal with the situation, and operate within a less conservative environment.  It is also easier for them to resist attempts by their families (their own and the in-laws) to control their lives.

antabanta posted:
 

The only job we're doing is talk about the problem and bring attention to it. No one here is looking to fix the problem tomorrow or next year or anytime soon but in order to find a solution, we have to actually look at the problem. That's not too difficult to understand... right?

Yes you cannot diagnose a problem until one understands it.  I happen to think that blaming alcohol or ethnicity (as if this is monolithic) is simplistic.

The question is why do some men think that they have the right to behave like this and why do some women tolerate this until its too late?  That is what we need to try to understand.

I hope that Guyana has moved beyond the 70s when men of all races felt that beating up their women was part of the culture.

caribny posted:

I hope that this is no longer acceptable but growing up in Guyana in the 70s  I remember hearing some women say "if he don' beat me dat mean he don' love me".  So both genders were enabling domestic abuse.

Again - our culture. It was even captured in a song by Sparrow

black up dey eye,
bruise up deh knee,
den dey love you eternally

Generations raised on this mindset. The chickens have come home to roost.

Iguana posted:
caribny posted:

I hope that this is no longer acceptable but growing up in Guyana in the 70s  I remember hearing some women say "if he don' beat me dat mean he don' love me".  So both genders were enabling domestic abuse.

Again - our culture. It was even captured in a song by Sparrow

black up dey eye,
bruise up deh knee,
den dey love you eternally

Generations raised on this mindset. The chickens have come home to roost.

And I remember as a little kid singing that loudly, not knowing the significance of it.

caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
caribny posted:

I hope that this is no longer acceptable but growing up in Guyana in the 70s  I remember hearing some women say "if he don' beat me dat mean he don' love me".  So both genders were enabling domestic abuse.

Again - our culture. It was even captured in a song by Sparrow

black up dey eye,
bruise up deh knee,
den dey love you eternally

Generations raised on this mindset. The chickens have come home to roost.

And I remember as a little kid singing that loudly, not knowing the significance of it.

Same here. All these kicking dust at house party.

antabanta posted:
Drugb posted:
antabanta posted:

Thank you for your profound contribution to discussion of the murder/suicide epidemic in Guyana.

First things first, djangy needs an editor. In terms of your discussion on Guyana, do you even live there? Those Guyanese actually living in Guyana and putting up with the hell hole created by the PNC will tell you to take care of your own ills before looking down your nose at them and telling them what to do. 

But you're allowed to make posts daily about issues in Guyana because you live there? Was the suicide rate lower between 1992 and 2015?

Take care of domestic abuse in us and ca before dictating to Guyanese what they should do. Yall rass think you better than them people over there?

antabanta posted:
seignet posted:
antabanta posted:

This thread shows many people who care, from all races and who support various parties. Sorry to disappoint you.

And the problem still exists. Dey ain doing a good enough job.

The only job we're doing is talk about the problem and bring attention to it. No one here is looking to fix the problem tomorrow or next year or anytime soon but in order to find a solution, we have to actually look at the problem. That's not too difficult to understand... right?

I thought u were ready to fix the problem. My solution is to tell dem about the Christ. Dey country need to focus on the Cross. 

antabanta posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Domestic violence prevails in every society even though it can be argued that it is more prevalent on some Eastern societies. Anti-Indian elements on this forum love to post articles to reinforce the negative stereotypes of Indian men as the violent male-Chauvinist. The American court system punishes violent husbands because the abuse of women in this society has been a major problem and it still is. I am not defending the actions of violent Indian men. All I'm saying it is wrong to politicize it and blow it out of proportion.

Maybe abuse is more prevalent within Indian communities not because the male is more chauvinistic but because the women are more timid and docile?

Bai, yuh really doan know coolie wimen. Many of dem can mek dem man go bunkers-in the end licks like peas or chop up.

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