Serious Question

VishMahabir posted:

I notice here that some people use words (I have been keeping a list since I been on this site) like poke, chum chum, punani, sumutoo, nara, aloo, baigan, choka, dharu, roti, karaila, loli, paglee, prappa, etc

My observation is that they are primarily used by Indos (I think). I notice too that some people (non-Indos) simply don’t use them. Ronan, Iguana, etc don’t seem to use any of them. Some of them are not in a dictionary, so they are not necessarily English words. So here are my questions:

Are these words part of the Afro or Indo language they brought from Africa or India?

Are they based on the original Hindi language?

Are they “creole” words that develop over the years of mixing with Afro and Indo words?

Why does it look like one set of Guyanese use them?

I have a more serious question to ask you. If you don't know these words or heard of them before, you are not from Guyana. I don't care if you leave as a child and live here for many years. My kids that are born here know these words very well because when I drop lash ah them for rass for chul-clul behavior, they remember why. You need some good trashing pun you rass too. This show-off behavior of yours is not sitting well with me. 

VishMahabir posted:

I notice here that some people use words (I have been keeping a list since I been on this site) like poke, chum chum, punani, sumutoo, nara, aloo, baigan, choka, dharu, roti, karaila, loli, paglee, prappa, etc

My observation is that they are primarily used by Indos (I think). I notice too that some people (non-Indos) simply don’t use them. Ronan, Iguana, etc don’t seem to use any of them. Some of them are not in a dictionary, so they are not necessarily English words. So here are my questions:

Are these words part of the Afro or Indo language they brought from Africa or India?

Are they based on the original Hindi language?

Are they “creole” words that develop over the years of mixing with Afro and Indo words?

Why does it look like one set of Guyanese use them?

There are some Hindi words in regular creole usage, paglee definitely one and punani another. Especially food names have entered the Guyanese/Trinidadian creole lexicon.   I am not sure that prappa is a Hindi word.  At least not when used by non Indians.

And in fact rural Caribbean Indians have built a dialect on a creole language base which its itself linked to the various West African pidgin English.  Urban Indians speak straight Afro Caribbean creole English.  So yes there has been much linguistic interchange between the two groups.  Note that Creolese rides on a West African grammatical system using English as its lexicon.  The English words adjusted to a West African mouth.

The amount of African (as adjusted to the Caribbean) influences in the behavior of known Indo KKK on GNI would drive most of them to suicide if they really knew what they were doing.

I have already mentioned before that over time many Caribbean Indians respond to drum music in an Afro Caribbean way.

VishMahabir posted:

 

Admin, you should close this thread, its not going anywhere. 

Please don't.  Just tell idle people to shut up if they have nothing to say.

This topic is of interest.  For instance I have always wondered why Guyanese say "bai" (boy) instead of "bwai". 

One characteristic that I note with both Africans and Indians (the real ones not the fake Caribbean ones) is the use of "auntie/uncle" to address on older person who is a close acquaintance, but not a blood relative of the family.

This is also the pattern in the Caribbean and it confuses many non Caribbean people.

I find that Guyanese don't talk enough about the origins of our culture.  One fact that needs to be understood is even though the two groups didn't trust each other they lived side by side so had great impact on each other.  So all Guyanese use channa, and every Guyanese knows aloo.  I think that the Hindi influence in mainstream Guyanese creolese is especially visible in food items.

caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:

 

Admin, you should close this thread, its not going anywhere. 

  One fact that needs to be understood is even though the two groups didn't trust each other they lived side by side so had great impact on each other. 

That's true in the Countryside, my neighboring village is Afro we get along fine, sometimes we go for a drink at the bars, same they will do in our village.

GTAngler posted:
Amral posted:

How about if I say me and you konkee cannot agree

What deh rass, "agree"??? I know it as me an you kankee cyant boil.

I remember Dad long ago mixing the ingredients into a paste, putting it in banana leaves, wrapping the leaves into 2"x2" squares and tying them with twine, then boiling them in a large pot. Delicious!  

Leonora posted:
GTAngler posted:
Amral posted:

How about if I say me and you konkee cannot agree

What deh rass, "agree"??? I know it as me an you kankee cyant boil.

I remember Dad long ago mixing the ingredients into a paste, putting it in banana leaves, wrapping the leaves into 2"x2" squares and tying them with twine, then boiling them in a large pot. Delicious!  

That was good treat for us as kids, my mom will always make for us.

Have you ever had Chanchee added with sugar,Chanchee is the by product of making Ghee and Coconut oil.That's another treat.

Haven't have for awhile, will have to make some, banana leaves selling in the stores in my neck of the woods.

Watch how Vish will ask what is "Chanchee"

Leonora posted:

I remember Dad long ago mixing the ingredients into a paste, putting it in banana leaves, wrapping the leaves into 2"x2" squares and tying them with twine, then boiling them in a large pot. Delicious!  

I tried making some but instead of using leaves which I couldn't get I baked it in a pyrex dish.

cain posted:
Leonora posted:

I remember Dad long ago mixing the ingredients into a paste, putting it in banana leaves, wrapping the leaves into 2"x2" squares and tying them with twine, then boiling them in a large pot. Delicious!  

I tried making some but instead of using leaves which I couldn't get I baked it in a pyrex dish.

The banana leaves gives it that special flavor.

Spanish and Indian stores selling banana leaves,check it out.

Django posted:
 

That was good treat for us as kids, my mom will always make for us.

Have you ever had Chanchee added with sugar,Chanchee is the by product of making Ghee and Coconut oil.That's another treat.

Haven't have for awhile, will have to make some, banana leaves selling in the stores in my neck of the woods.

Watch how Vish will ask what is "Chanchee"

Loved Chanchee! 

cain posted:
Leonora posted:

I remember Dad long ago mixing the ingredients into a paste, putting it in banana leaves, wrapping the leaves into 2"x2" squares and tying them with twine, then boiling them in a large pot. Delicious!  

I tried making some but instead of using leaves which I couldn't get I baked it in a pyrex dish.

Freshco sells the leaves where you find the Indian frozen veggies. I get it also at the Chinese grocers here.

Mars posted:

I don’t know half of the words that country folks use and many of them I only learned by seeing them mentioned here on GNI. I wouldn’t expect Vish to be familiar with those words if he left Guyana at a young age.

You is a town boy, so them words would not be in your vocabulary.

Guyana is a unique country when it come to usage of the local words,every County have their own local language and can be identified.

While there i was able to visit the other two Counties,stayed in Essequibo for awhile and had vacations at my aunt in Black Bush Polder,that was during my teenage years.In my adult life traveled the whole of Berbice on the main highway and the three major island in the Essequibo River.Demerara was my home town,travelled all over,except Linden.

Mars posted:

I don’t know half of the words that country folks use and many of them I only learned by seeing them mentioned here on GNI. I wouldn’t expect Vish to be familiar with those words if he left Guyana at a young age.

me thinks he was wan lil dugla bacha. 

Dugla is from hindi word doogalaa meaning many, much or mixed. Bacha in hindi means "child".

Leonora posted:

I never knew what was Pepperpot until I saw it mentioned on GNI few years ago. My villagers never cooked it because we felt it was sacrilegious to mix up meats!  

That's Amerindian dish.The other population copied and made their own concoction.

Souse and black pudding are African and of course other dishes.

VishMahabir posted:

if this is the level of discourse that takes place in Guyana then maybe Trump is right to label this backwater country as a "s---hole" country.

The sad reality is that is seems like most of you here are Indos (my guess) who got nothing better to do with their time...rather than trade barbs...better be careful, if this is the level of intelligence reflected among PPP leaders (who dont give a heave ho about Indos) in Guyana then yall better be prepared to be out of power for 28 years....without being stereotypical hers, this level of discourse adds new meaning to the statement "dem coolies deserve what dey get" 

No wonder you dont see the likes of Ronan, Iguana and Carib getting in the sewer.

Admin, you should close this thread, its not going anywhere. 

KP asking if you have a penis. Skeldon man want to see a picture of it. "Dave" fantasizing about Django widout he clothes. Yugli man reading and dribbling, he imagination running wild with all of the above. Grown "men" with tendencies to buggery, all of them Indian, but they are NOT representative of all Indians. These are what would be called "country coolies" in Guyana, particularly by Indians in Georgetown.

Urban Indians like the ones from Georgetown are more sophisticated and mix more liberally with other races, cook and eat other than Indian foods, etc. They are more open to other races, music and cultures, and have a mixture of friends from other races much to the chagrin of the "country coolies" like Yugli and he crew. These urban Indians are often vilified by the "country coolie" types and referred to as "town coolies", "N.....r lovers" and suh on by Indians from the country. 

Re the buggery thing - I've read where this practice may have its roots on the ships from India which lacked women. You certainly don't see Indians from India so wrapped up in buggery like ah we Guyanese Indian pals from the countryside. Note yuh pal Nehru MANY offers to "bugger" those he disagrees with. It is in every conversation on this board where Skeldon, KP, Yugli, Dave etc. participate.

So don't paint all Indians like you did. There is a difference between urban and country Indians. It's part of the cultural differences in Guyana, though yuh gon hearing nuff wailing and screaming about this.

Now, there is similiar among Guyanese blacks, but it is not location based. It is economic based. Bourgeois blacks versus common blacks. "Elite" blacks like Granger, Trotman, etc. versus the more "common" blacks. Suh we have it too (minus the buggery). More class based than location based.

A lil "education" fuh you on yuh homeland. Use it wisely. And doant tun yuh back pon de crew above.

Django posted:
Leonora posted:

I never knew what was Pepperpot until I saw it mentioned on GNI few years ago. My villagers never cooked it because we felt it was sacrilegious to mix up meats!  

That's Amerindian dish.The other population copied and made their own concoction.

Souse and black pudding are African and of course other dishes.

Black pudding is European. They call it blood sausage. There are variations of blood sausage in many European countries. I think we got the Scottish version in Guyana. Not sure where souse originated.

Mars posted:
Django posted:
Leonora posted:

I never knew what was Pepperpot until I saw it mentioned on GNI few years ago. My villagers never cooked it because we felt it was sacrilegious to mix up meats!  

That's Amerindian dish.The other population copied and made their own concoction.

Souse and black pudding are African and of course other dishes.

Black pudding is European. There are variations of blood pudding in many European countries. I think we got the Scottish version in Guyana. Not sure where souse originated.

Correct. Spaniards call it Morcilla. I think souse has european origins too.

Mars posted:
Django posted:
Leonora posted:

I never knew what was Pepperpot until I saw it mentioned on GNI few years ago. My villagers never cooked it because we felt it was sacrilegious to mix up meats!  

That's Amerindian dish.The other population copied and made their own concoction.

Souse and black pudding are African and of course other dishes.

Black pudding is European. There are variations of blood pudding in many European countries. I think we got the Scottish version in Guyana. Not sure where souse originated.

Thanks for the correction, we learning.Appears the Africans  in Guyana copied from the Scottish.

Iguana posted:
Mars posted:
Django posted:
Leonora posted:

I never knew what was Pepperpot until I saw it mentioned on GNI few years ago. My villagers never cooked it because we felt it was sacrilegious to mix up meats!  

That's Amerindian dish.The other population copied and made their own concoction.

Souse and black pudding are African and of course other dishes.

Black pudding is European. There are variations of blood pudding in many European countries. I think we got the Scottish version in Guyana. Not sure where souse originated.

Correct. Spaniards call it Morcilla. I think souse has european origins too.

Yes, my Puerto Rican friend had some Morcilla at one of his parties and they must have gotten it from the Spaniards. Souse is probably European too from the days when there was no refrigeration and they pickled the meat to keep it from spoiling.

Iguana posted:
VishMahabir posted:

if this is the level of discourse that takes place in Guyana then maybe Trump is right to label this backwater country as a "s---hole" country.

The sad reality is that is seems like most of you here are Indos (my guess) who got nothing better to do with their time...rather than trade barbs...better be careful, if this is the level of intelligence reflected among PPP leaders (who dont give a heave ho about Indos) in Guyana then yall better be prepared to be out of power for 28 years....without being stereotypical hers, this level of discourse adds new meaning to the statement "dem coolies deserve what dey get" 

No wonder you dont see the likes of Ronan, Iguana and Carib getting in the sewer.

Admin, you should close this thread, its not going anywhere. 

KP asking if you have a penis. Skeldon man want to see a picture of it. "Dave" fantasizing about Django widout he clothes. Yugli man reading and dribbling, he imagination running wild with all of the above. Grown "men" with tendencies to buggery, all of them Indian, but they are NOT representative of all Indians. These are what would be called "country coolies" in Guyana, particularly by Indians in Georgetown.

Urban Indians like the ones from Georgetown are more sophisticated and mix more liberally with other races, cook and eat other than Indian foods, etc. They are more open to other races, music and cultures, and have a mixture of friends from other races much to the chagrin of the "country coolies" like Yugli and he crew. These urban Indians are often vilified by the "country coolie" types and referred to as "town coolies", "N.....r lovers" and suh on by Indians from the country. 

Re the buggery thing - I've read where this practice may have its roots on the ships from India which lacked women. You certainly don't see Indians from India so wrapped up in buggery like ah we Guyanese Indian pals from the countryside. Note yuh pal Nehru MANY offers to "bugger" those he disagrees with. It is in every conversation on this board where Skeldon, KP, Yugli, Dave etc. participate.

So don't paint all Indians like you did. There is a difference between urban and country Indians. It's part of the cultural differences in Guyana, though yuh gon hearing nuff wailing and screaming about this.

Now, there is similiar among Guyanese blacks, but it is not location based. It is economic based. Bourgeois blacks versus common blacks. "Elite" blacks like Granger, Trotman, etc. versus the more "common" blacks. Suh we have it too (minus the buggery). More class based than location based.

A lil "education" fuh you on yuh homeland. Use it wisely. And doant tun yuh back pon de crew above.

Why don't you PM Vish and help him with his many problems. You are suggesting to be a Bourgeois Black, in other words Town Man don't know about Buggery. Pretty Boy  Reptile, when you shit ,you don't use your hand to wipe your ass, well all of us do the same. So don't come here and profess to be a choir boy, primp and proper.

 Look it up , Vish asked about Loli and I asked him in kind. Never used the word Penis.

Leonora posted:

I've never eaten Black pudding. At a Kangan in Guyana (next day wedding feast), the guys were given this as a Cutter while drinking and a guy vomited and was so sick after that. 

The best black pudding and souse i had is from Buxton line top. 

Dave posted:
Leonora posted:

I've never eaten Black pudding. At a Kangan in Guyana (next day wedding feast), the guys were given this as a Cutter while drinking and a guy vomited and was so sick after that. 

The best black pudding and souse i had is from Buxton line top. 

Bhai, Afros are the best to prepare the two dishes.

One of our villager an Afro was good at preparing the two.

Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936) was an India-born English writer. Many of his stories are set in India during the British Raj. In these stories there are British soldiers that include Scotsmen. Kipling captures their speech well in the characters' dialogues. And that gave me an insight into Guyana creolese origins.

Many overseers in the Guyana plantations were Scotsmen who didn't speak standard English. Slaves and indentured labourers listened to those Scotsmen and copied their pronunciations.

Here is a sample which I've taken from Kipling's Indian tales: "at wan gulp" for "at one gulp"/ "av" for "of"/ "bleddy" for "bloody"/ "wid" for "with"/ "conduck" for "conduct"/ "bekaze" for "because"/ "meself" for "myself"/ "will larn you a lesson" for "will teach you a lesson", etc.

Leonora posted:

I've never eaten Black pudding. At a Kangan in Guyana (next day wedding feast), the guys were given this as a Cutter while drinking, a guy vomited and was very ill after that. 

You can't put good things in a bad stomach. Ask Nehru deh. 

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