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Islamic........because the religion is Islam......ISIL and A Qaeda groups call themselves Islamic......All Muslims call themselves Islamic

 

Ideology......because it is not religion......ISIL Ideologues because they hold on to an idea......Muslims - religious not ideologues.

 

Fareek Zakaria had an interesting take on the use/non-use of RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM, and the Republicans' empty ideas on defeating ISIL.

 

Here it is :

 

Saying ‘radical Islam’ has nothing to do with defeating terrorism

By Fareed Zakaria

December 17

 

“Radical Islamic terrorism.” Apparently, the phrase — if you can actually say it — has mystical powers. At Tuesday’s Republican debate, the candidates once more took pains to point out that they would speak the dreaded words that President Obama and Hillary Clinton dare not. “We have a president who is unwilling to utter its name,” Ted Cruz said in his opening statement.As it turns out, the first time I described the enemy as “radical Islam” was in a column I wrote days after 9/11. I used the phrase “radical Islamic terrorism” in another column later that month. So, having established my credentials, I can honestly say that it gives absolutely nothing in the way of an answer or strategy to deal with terrorist attacks.

Fareed Zakaria writes a foreign affairs column for The Post. He is also the host of CNN’s Fareed Zakaria GPS and a contributing editor for The Atlantic.

 

It’s not just Republicans who have decided that Obama’s and Clinton’s unwillingness to use this phrase is a sign of weakness and strategic incoherence. There is a cottage industry of writers who boast that they are brave enough to name the enemy.

In fact, Obama has often spoken about the problems of extremism in Islam. His speech last year to the U.N. General Assembly focused significantly on that topic: “Today, it is violence within Muslim communities that has become the source of so much human misery. . . . It is time for the world — especially Muslim communities — to explicitly, forcefully, and consistently reject the ideology of organizations like al-Qaeda and ISIL [the Islamic State].”

 

In his speech after the San Bernardino, Calif., shootings, Obama again made some of these points, leading late-night comic Seth Meyers to quip: “So he used the words ‘radical,’ ‘Islam,’ and ‘terrorism,’ he just didn’t use them in the right order. Which would be a problem if it was a spell and he was Harry Potter, but he’s not, so it isn’t.”

 

During a speech in Washington, presidential contender Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tx.) took on critics in his own party and defended Middle East dictators as useful allies against Islamic extremists on Thursday, Dec. 10. (AP)

 

Obama and Clinton have chosen not to describe the enemy as “radical Islam” out of deference to the many Muslim countries and leaders who feel it gives the terrorists legitimacy. President George W. Bush was similarly careful in his rhetoric. For this reason, throughout the Middle East, the Islamic State is called Daesh , an acronym with derogatory connotations.

 

Conservatives have discovered a newfound love for France after its president declared war following the Paris attacks. They might not have realized that FranÇois Hollande purposely declared war not on the Islamic State but on Daesh. His foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, explained: “I do not recommend using the term Islamic State because it blurs the lines between Islam, Muslims and Islamists. The Arabs call it ‘Daesh,’ and I will be calling them the ‘Daesh cutthroats.’ ”

 

The best proof that calling radical Islam by its name provides no solutions is that the Republican candidates had none at Tuesday’s debate. After all the huffing and puffing, the most aggressive among them proposed more bombing, no-fly zones and arming the Kurds.

These are modest additions to Obama’s current strategy, each with its own problems. More bombing has proved hard because there are many innocent civilians in Islamic State strongholds. Administration sources tell me that a no-fly zone would require at least 200 U.S. aircraft and would do little to stop the violence, which is mostly conducted on land, with some via helicopters). Arming the Kurds directly would enrage the Iraqi and Turkish governments, as well as many of the Sunni tribes that would have to eventually occupy the lands that are liberated. These are judgment calls, not no-brainers.

 

Most important, however, fighting this terrorist group is not the same as fighting radical Islam. Strangely, after the GOP candidates boldly and correctly described the enemy as an ideology — which is much broader than one group — they spoke almost entirely about fighting that one group. Even if the Islamic State were defeated tomorrow, would that stop the next lone-wolf jihadist in New York or Paris or London? The San Bernardino killers appear to have been radicalized when the terrorist group barely existed.

 

In fact, the enemy is radical Islam, an ideology that has spread over the past four decades — for a variety of reasons — and now infects alienated young men and women across the Muslim world. The fight against it must at its core be against the ideology itself. And that can be done only by Muslims — they alone can purge their faith of this extremism. After a slow start, several important efforts are underway, perhaps more than people realize. The West can help by encouraging these forces of reform, allying with them and partnering in efforts to modernize their societies. But that is much less satisfying than hurling invectives, calling for bans on Muslims and advocating carpet-bombing.

 

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The head of the snake, House of Saud is where the problem lies.  The US/West will eventually need to take out house of Saud and re-educated the masses.  They need to be thought Christan values, sent to proper school and lean the ways of progress and modernity.  Until ten, we have the shyte to deal with.

FM
Kari posted:

Islamic........because the religion is Islam......ISIL and A Qaeda groups call themselves Islamic......All Muslims call themselves Islamic

......In fact, the enemy is radical Islam, an ideology that has spread over the past four decades — for a variety of reasons — and now infects alienated young men and women across the Muslim world. The fight against it must at its core be against the ideology itself. And that can be done only by Muslims — they alone can purge their faith of this extremism. After a slow start, several important efforts are underway, perhaps more than people realize. The West can help by encouraging these forces of reform, allying with them and partnering in efforts to modernize their societies. But that is much less satisfying than hurling invectives, calling for bans on Muslims and advocating carpet-bombing.

 

Kari, how many times have I  written to you and others here that the faith, the ulema, (the learned interpreters of the faith) has to define it for adherents and establish the boundaries of its propriety? How many times have I been ridiculed as a heathen attacking a perfect religion with perfect language, with perfect meaning accessible to all and therefore never suspect to false messaging.

The fact is someone has to stand up and say many of the medieval tenets of the faith has to go as Christians have already done. They do not stone women for adultery etc per Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Christians also do not sanitize their world of others of different faiths. Muslims have to make that stand and not bullshit about the perfect immutable laws when interpreted to be anti modern and anti human.

But while Muslims get their house in order we have to stand on the wall. That is fair is it not? Brutish expressions or reversed humanity cannot be allowed to overwhelm us as it has Syria, Libya and Iraq. If might means carpet bombing the lot as some GOP folks suggest because survival is imperative and those people have become like zombies whose disease can be transmitted electronically.

As long as they hold ground, is seen as a "force", they will continue to infect our young. I do not even give a damn these days if tactical nukes are used. Extreme times demand extreme measures and we cannot have Muslim lands emptying out with all path leading west.

These people have to be stopped by any means necessary. We do not have space platforms with powerful lasers to take them out individually and surgically. We might have to carpet bombing their behinds like the Russians are already doing.

FM

Faareed Zakaria should be banished from the USA, This fool is missing an important point. He claims 45 Americans were killed by Muslim Terrorist in comparison to 150,000 killed by guns in the USA by Americans.

If these muslim killings were not important for the American government, then why are they over in the ME bombing the place.

I hope Trump wins and puts his azz on a plane back to India. Bloody idiot, feels pious enough about his muslim superiority that he would insult white people mentality. 

S
Stormborn posted:

Kari, how many times have i written to you and others here that the faith, the ulema, the learned interpreters of the faith has to define it for adherents and establish the boundaries of its propriety? How many times have I been ridiculed as a heathen attacking a perfect religion with perfect language, with perfect meaning accessible to all and therefore never suspect to false messaging.

But while Muslims get their house in order we have to stand on the wall. That is fair is it not? Brutish expressions or reversed humanity cannot be allowed to overwhelm us as it has Syria, Libya and Iraq. If might means carpet bombing the lot as some GOP folks suggest because survival is imperative and those people have become like zombies whose disease can be transmitted electronically.

As long as they hold ground, is seen as a "force", they will continue to infect our young. I do not even give a damn these days if tactical nukes are used. Extreme times demand extreme measures and we cannot have Muslim lands emptying out with all path leading west.

These people have to be stopped by any means necessary. We do not have space platforms with powerful lazers to take them out individually. We might have to carpet bombing their behinds like the russians are already doing.

stormborn, your last 3 paragraphs leave me scratching my head

"carpet bomb" . . . "tactical nukes"?

these are your real-world, American solutions? . . .  smh

at it's core, this is NOT a battle for Western survival . . . you are falling into the ISIS trap

it is simply a hegemonic (death?) struggle between Shia and Sunni Islam framed by the post-Sykes/Picot realities being played out in the Levant

we in the West have all kinds of lethal and extraordinarily effective options available to crush and inoculate ourselves from this disease short of the apocalypse u recommend and the desert psychopaths would welcome . . . it just takes patience and intelligence

pay attention to the tactical posture of the powers in the immediate neighborhood . . . it is instructive

sorry, this is far from existential

FM
redux posted:
Stormborn posted:

Kari, how many times have i written to you and others here that the faith, the ulema, the learned interpreters of the faith has to define it for adherents and establish the boundaries of its propriety? How many times have I been ridiculed as a heathen attacking a perfect religion with perfect language, with perfect meaning accessible to all and therefore never suspect to false messaging.

But while Muslims get their house in order we have to stand on the wall. That is fair is it not? Brutish expressions or reversed humanity cannot be allowed to overwhelm us as it has Syria, Libya and Iraq. If might means carpet bombing the lot as some GOP folks suggest because survival is imperative and those people have become like zombies whose disease can be transmitted electronically.

As long as they hold ground, is seen as a "force", they will continue to infect our young. I do not even give a damn these days if tactical nukes are used. Extreme times demand extreme measures and we cannot have Muslim lands emptying out with all path leading west.

These people have to be stopped by any means necessary. We do not have space platforms with powerful lazers to take them out individually. We might have to carpet bombing their behinds like the russians are already doing.

stormborn, your last 3 paragraphs leave me scratching my head

"carpet bomb" . . . "tactical nukes"?

these are your real-world, American solutions? . . .  smh

at it's core, this is NOT a battle for Western survival . . . you are falling into the ISIS trap

it is simply a hegemonic (death?) struggle between Shia and Sunni Islam framed by the post-Sykes/Picot realities being played out in the Levant

we in the West have all kinds of lethal and extraordinarily effective options available to crush and inoculate ourselves from this disease short of the apocalypse u recommend and the desert psychopaths would welcome . . . it just takes patience and intelligence

pay attention to the tactical posture of the powers in the immediate neighborhood . . . it is instructive

sorry, this is far from existential

Dont give a shit about them any more. Any means to erase them is good from where I stand. People who can behead women and children are no longer people. Anything to erase them.... napalm, white phosphor..cluster bombs...take out every life sustaining infrastructure....I just do not care.

If Pakistan and Egypt becomes infected that is another 140 million of people enslaved. If they get their hands on those bombs it is our ass. They already used chemical weapons. Muslim nations are not going to go after them. Saudis bootstrapped them, Turkey buys their oil. or turns a blind eye to the trade.etc

Qatar is spending 122 billion on the world cup and poor Jordan is up to its neck in refugees with no help. Someone has to stop these people. Raqqa has to be leveled of all ISIS structures and the same with Mosul. Anywhere there is a black flag...take it out. One has to act like Genghis Khan with these folks. There is no room for negotiations.

 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Stormborn posted:
.

The fact is someone has to stand up and say many of the medieval tenets of the faith has to go as Christians have already done. They do not stone women for adultery etc per Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Christians also do not sanitize their world of others of different faiths. Muslims have to make that stand and not bullshit about the perfect immutable laws when interpreted to be anti modern and anti human.

 

This is what Kari refuses to deal with. In fact Muslims suffer a double whammy from radicalized Islamists. Not only does the behavior of radicalized Islamists not only give cover to bigots like Trump and Maher to peddle their poison, but Muslims are also the biggest victims of these attacks. Several of those killed Paris were Muslims.

And this is especially true in the Middle East, and in Africa. where whole segments of the community are being wiped off because they represent the more intellectual traditions of Islam, while the jihadists want to remain primitive tribal nomads.

Kari should be directing discussion towards how Muslims can eliminate this scourge that is so problematic to the vast majority of Muslims.  Why are the mentally unbalanced so attracted to kill in the name of this religion?  That is a question that needs answers.

FM

Caribny is pointing us all to a solution - eradicate the religion of Islam. Ask the 1.6 billion Muslims to convert to some other religion or atheism and burn all the Quran in the world and jail time for anyone who utters the word Islam or partake in the religion (ooops.....not a religion in that new regime). that is the solution he's looking for - like asking all Blacks to shed their black-ness. Or maybe he wants all the Muslims to pool their resources, but a nuke (it's possible, maybe...in caribny's world) and blow up Raqqa. Then round uip all the Muslims from the Middle East living in Europe and North america and intern them for life. Oh, those bastard Muslims of this world who wreak this terrorist insanity on this world of caribnys......and seigheil....and basement dweller.....oh, how they would love Muslims to come up with a solution to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism - yes this is a superior phrase that means Islam will be stricken from history - that would involver each of us killing each other. That's the only solution - caribny's final solution - like Hitler's. The kackass does not know Muslims' hatred for ISIL and Al Qaeda is a thousand time greater than his or SiegHeil or basement caveman. Tell us broddaman -what is the solution? Self-emolument?  Kari should be directing discussion towards how Muslims can eliminate this scourge - say the words and I will repeat them so you'll be happy. Do you want me to say all Indians are racists too?  What would satisfy you? What other yearnings of yours remain? I've heard Muslims mus tsay radical Islamic terrorists. Kill all Muslims.....what else genius? State what we must do oh brilliant mind of the human condition! For once categorically state "Kari...do this ....and do that...." I await your sage.

Kari
Kari posted:

Caribny is pointing us all to a solution - eradicate the religion of Islam. Ask the 1.6 billion Muslims to convert to some other religion or atheism and burn all the Quran in the world and jail time for anyone who utters the word Islam or partake in the religion (ooops.....not a religion in that new regime). that is the solution he's looking for - like asking all Blacks to shed their black-ness. Or maybe he wants all the Muslims to pool their resources, but a nuke (it's possible, maybe...in caribny's world) and blow up Raqqa. Then round uip all the Muslims from the Middle East living in Europe and North america and intern them for life. Oh, those bastard Muslims of this world who wreak this terrorist insanity on this world of caribnys......and seigheil....and basement dweller.....oh, how they would love Muslims to come up with a solution to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism - yes this is a superior phrase that means Islam will be stricken from history - that would involver each of us killing each other. That's the only solution - caribny's final solution - like Hitler's. The kackass does not know Muslims' hatred for ISIL and Al Qaeda is a thousand time greater than his or SiegHeil or basement caveman. Tell us broddaman -what is the solution? Self-emolument?  Kari should be directing discussion towards how Muslims can eliminate this scourge - say the words and I will repeat them so you'll be happy. Do you want me to say all Indians are racists too?  What would satisfy you? What other yearnings of yours remain? I've heard Muslims mus tsay radical Islamic terrorists. Kill all Muslims.....what else genius? State what we must do oh brilliant mind of the human condition! For once categorically state "Kari...do this ....and do that...." I await your sage.

I do not see Caribj considering massive conversion of anyone. Muslims have a right to their faith as do all others. The point I make is that while there is vocal messaging from Muslims in some quarters against this evil it is not enough. Muslims need to be in the street in peaceful marches at the desecration of their faith in similar manner and fevor ( minus the violence) as when they thought someone defamed the Prophet with cartoons. We do not see that against ISIS and that is the point. 

 

You are hyperventilating on imagined ills and not taking the real sickness into consideration. Muslim nations need to do more for their people. They need to help the refugees. They need to fight for the integrity of Islam by massing troops against those desecrating it and committing horrible violence in their name.

 

Also, they will have to agree to redraw the map of the region. Syria will not be reconstituted in the same way and Iraq should no longer suffer the indignity of a central ethnic conscious president but be split up into confederacies or federations.  Libya may not be able to be put together as it was but into two factions as well. Both military and political solutions are needed.

 

FM
Kari posted:

Caribny is pointing us all to a solution - eradicate the religion of Islam. Ask the 1.6 billion Muslims to convert to some other religion or atheism and burn all the Quran in the world and jail time for anyone who utters the word Islam or partake in the religion (ooops.....not a religion in that new regime). that is the solution he's looking for - like asking all Blacks to shed their black-ness. Or maybe he wants all the Muslims to pool their resources, but a nuke (it's possible, maybe...in caribny's world) and blow up Raqqa. Then round uip all the Muslims from the Middle East living in Europe and North america and intern them for life. Oh, those bastard Muslims of this world who wreak this terrorist insanity on this world of caribnys......and seigheil....and basement dweller.....oh, how they would love Muslims to come up with a solution to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism - yes this is a superior phrase that means Islam will be stricken from history - that would involver each of us killing each other. That's the only solution - caribny's final solution - like Hitler's. The kackass does not know Muslims' hatred for ISIL and Al Qaeda is a thousand time greater than his or SiegHeil or basement caveman. Tell us broddaman -what is the solution? Self-emolument?  Kari should be directing discussion towards how Muslims can eliminate this scourge - say the words and I will repeat them so you'll be happy. Do you want me to say all Indians are racists too?  What would satisfy you? What other yearnings of yours remain? I've heard Muslims mus tsay radical Islamic terrorists. Kill all Muslims.....what else genius? State what we must do oh brilliant mind of the human condition! For once categorically state "Kari...do this ....and do that...." I await your sage.

As ISIS is claiming, they are fulfilling end time prophecies. Then it would be the non-muslims who will have to suffer for their faith in Jesus Christ. By death or conversion. India is a good example of what may come.

The way I see it, there is a certain self pride in Islamic values. It is what is promoted as better than anything that is current. I cannot see Muslims amassing in large numbers to combat the evils that persists in Islam. They are the quiet participators of dominance. And they will be victorious. How else would the ancient words be a reality from which region of the world other than the mother of all false religions as stated in the Bible.

If America is the champion of freedom of speech, then Islam would flourish. Its Presidents are fools. Then again how else would the Righteous be persecuted by the Unrighteous. 

S
cain posted:

Kari, haul yo ass.

Cainsta....the people who're most affected by all this are Muslims - both by being killed in far greater numbers and in assaults by non-Muslims and atheists (physical as well as psychological). Muslims are under attack by both ISIL/Al Qaeda and Westerners. It's only Asians, Africans and Latinos in the southern hemisphere and Russians who are not in this feeding frenzy that you see reflected on GNI copycats. Donald Trump would be proud of what he sees here.

Kari
Kari posted:
cain posted:

Kari, haul yo ass.

Cainsta....the people who're most affected by all this are Muslims - both by being killed in far greater numbers and in assaults by non-Muslims and atheists (physical as well as psychological). Muslims are under attack by both ISIL/Al Qaeda and Westerners. It's only Asians, Africans and Latinos in the southern hemisphere and Russians who are not in this feeding frenzy that you see reflected on GNI copycats. Donald Trump would be proud of what he sees here.

The entire world is disrupted with these netherworld denizens. If the Islamic world cared to address this swiftly they can. The Saudis And Qataris facilitated the  emergence of ISIS.   They can help with the bleeding as recompense to the world.

Atheists and non Muslims have no hand in this except in the reluctance of western powers to intervene and erase these creatures. Too often they get blamed for it all as you so easily do without any  sense of responsibility  to the faith by speaking to the failures of its scholars to establish hard authoritative rules against the crucifixion of non Muslims and beheading of women and children. Has there ever been a fatwah against human bombs...especially the use of women and children?

Russia is deep to its knees in this. It is afraid of its border states falling and it becoming once again embroiled in a war with Muslims internally. Russians are also seeking a global voice and they are being opportunistic here. 

Trump is indeed a bigot also capitalizing  for political coin on what is a latent understanding that Muslims have a problem wrought of their own neglect on their hands. We in the west have a right to be worried about the rise of "Islamists" as we are about any bestial group intend on bombing our public spaces and it is not against Muslims because they are Muslims as you frame it. It is about self preservation in light of the community failure to reach out and bond with others needing to fight this evil. It is a terrible shame that the few who actively fight are marginalized by the acquiescence and failure to act by the larger community

It is the  usual prideful neglect to sanction their own and habit to overlook  willful abuse of non Muslims. Where among Muslims have there been an outcry against their abuse of Indians and other Asians in the gulf states or the Coptic Christians in Egypt? Where has there been a concerted attempt in the Ulema to stop the anonymizing of women. It has no scriptural imperative. Muslims have a responsibility for their present predicament as well.

Where have they sought to establish firm interpretations in the law as a community and vocally demonstrate their outrage against transgressions. Instead we see how quickly there are issues of  fatwas against cartoonists and impromptu rage in the streets against and tacit condoning of murder as those of Theo Van Gough for an innocuous film.  Then there are the outrages and riots as tales of Koran burning  spread including the stoning of a  young Muslim women for supposed religious infractions against the book! These are misplaced outrages when real glaring ones exists!

The Religion is in dire need or rehabilitation. I cannot accept it on par with any other religion in its present state of anarchy and inconsistency in interpretations which often predicate violence on others. Muslims themselves should be shamed into action to correct this view.

FM

I think too many Muslims take medieval writings in the Koran to still be relevant!!!   I have been saying to our Guyanese Muslim Brothers and Sisters, stick to the Islam you were taught in Guyana!!!

Nehru
Stormborn posted:
redux posted:
Stormborn posted:

Kari, how many times have i written to you and others here that the faith, the ulema, the learned interpreters of the faith has to define it for adherents and establish the boundaries of its propriety? How many times have I been ridiculed as a heathen attacking a perfect religion with perfect language, with perfect meaning accessible to all and therefore never suspect to false messaging.

But while Muslims get their house in order we have to stand on the wall. That is fair is it not? Brutish expressions or reversed humanity cannot be allowed to overwhelm us as it has Syria, Libya and Iraq. If might means carpet bombing the lot as some GOP folks suggest because survival is imperative and those people have become like zombies whose disease can be transmitted electronically.

As long as they hold ground, is seen as a "force", they will continue to infect our young. I do not even give a damn these days if tactical nukes are used. Extreme times demand extreme measures and we cannot have Muslim lands emptying out with all path leading west.

These people have to be stopped by any means necessary. We do not have space platforms with powerful lazers to take them out individually. We might have to carpet bombing their behinds like the russians are already doing.

stormborn, your last 3 paragraphs leave me scratching my head

"carpet bomb" . . . "tactical nukes"?

these are your real-world, American solutions? . . .  smh

at it's core, this is NOT a battle for Western survival . . . you are falling into the ISIS trap

it is simply a hegemonic (death?) struggle between Shia and Sunni Islam framed by the post-Sykes/Picot realities being played out in the Levant

we in the West have all kinds of lethal and extraordinarily effective options available to crush and inoculate ourselves from this disease short of the apocalypse u recommend and the desert psychopaths would welcome . . . it just takes patience and intelligence

pay attention to the tactical posture of the powers in the immediate neighborhood . . . it is instructive

sorry, this is far from existential

Dont give a shit about them any more. Any means to erase them is good from where I stand. People who can behead women and children are no longer people. Anything to erase them.... napalm, white phosphor..cluster bombs...take out every life sustaining infrastructure....I just do not care.

If Pakistan and Egypt becomes infected that is another 140 million of people enslaved. If they get their hands on those bombs it is our ass. They already used chemical weapons. Muslim nations are not going to go after them. Saudis bootstrapped them, Turkey buys their oil. or turns a blind eye to the trade.etc

Qatar is spending 122 billion on the world cup and poor Jordan is up to its neck in refugees with no help. Someone has to stop these people. Raqqa has to be leveled of all ISIS structures and the same with Mosul. Anywhere there is a black flag...take it out. One has to act like Genghis Khan with these folks. There is no room for negotiations.

stormborn, i will have a fuller response to the 'strategic' elements of your post later

however, i cannot allow you to misrepresent where i stand on such an important national security issue in furtherance of your polemic

(i) this is not about you [or me] "giving a shit about [ISIS]" as you very well know . . . if you feel that using weapons of mass destruction on the populations of Ramadi, Raqqa and Mosul (the 2nd largest city in Iraq) is called for to wipe out embedded ISIS militants, then say so clearly and i will properly pour ridicule on such madness

and (ii) where do you get off implying that i support the silly and dangerous idea of "negotiations" with Baghdadi & Co. you are having such a great time tilting at?

FM
Last edited by Former Member

The Koran can never be revised. That would subject the contents as the absolute truths. The people who promote this religion are the people of the ME. The others are followers of their interpretations.

The other day I saw a video of a few muslims who want to reclaim their religion. I did not see any immans or Middle-Easterners in the group. Most Indo looking people.

No one wants to convert muslims or want to prove their beliefs are medieval. They put themselves into the frame. And beligerent about it.  

S
redux posted:
Stormborn posted:
redux posted:
Stormborn posted:

Kari, how many times have i written to you and others here that the faith, the ulema, the learned interpreters of the faith has to define it for adherents and establish the boundaries of its propriety? How many times have I been ridiculed as a heathen attacking a perfect religion with perfect language, with perfect meaning accessible to all and therefore never suspect to false messaging.

But while Muslims get their house in order we have to stand on the wall. That is fair is it not? Brutish expressions or reversed humanity cannot be allowed to overwhelm us as it has Syria, Libya and Iraq. If might means carpet bombing the lot as some GOP folks suggest because survival is imperative and those people have become like zombies whose disease can be transmitted electronically.

As long as they hold ground, is seen as a "force", they will continue to infect our young. I do not even give a damn these days if tactical nukes are used. Extreme times demand extreme measures and we cannot have Muslim lands emptying out with all path leading west.

These people have to be stopped by any means necessary. We do not have space platforms with powerful lazers to take them out individually. We might have to carpet bombing their behinds like the russians are already doing.

stormborn, your last 3 paragraphs leave me scratching my head

"carpet bomb" . . . "tactical nukes"?

these are your real-world, American solutions? . . .  smh

at it's core, this is NOT a battle for Western survival . . . you are falling into the ISIS trap

it is simply a hegemonic (death?) struggle between Shia and Sunni Islam framed by the post-Sykes/Picot realities being played out in the Levant

we in the West have all kinds of lethal and extraordinarily effective options available to crush and inoculate ourselves from this disease short of the apocalypse u recommend and the desert psychopaths would welcome . . . it just takes patience and intelligence

pay attention to the tactical posture of the powers in the immediate neighborhood . . . it is instructive

sorry, this is far from existential

Dont give a shit about them any more. Any means to erase them is good from where I stand. People who can behead women and children are no longer people. Anything to erase them.... napalm, white phosphor..cluster bombs...take out every life sustaining infrastructure....I just do not care.

If Pakistan and Egypt becomes infected that is another 140 million of people enslaved. If they get their hands on those bombs it is our ass. They already used chemical weapons. Muslim nations are not going to go after them. Saudis bootstrapped them, Turkey buys their oil. or turns a blind eye to the trade.etc

Qatar is spending 122 billion on the world cup and poor Jordan is up to its neck in refugees with no help. Someone has to stop these people. Raqqa has to be leveled of all ISIS structures and the same with Mosul. Anywhere there is a black flag...take it out. One has to act like Genghis Khan with these folks. There is no room for negotiations.

stormborn, i will have a fuller response to the 'strategic' elements of your post later

however, i cannot allow you to misrepresent where i stand on such an important national security issue in furtherance of your polemic

(i) this is not about you [or me] "giving a shit about [ISIS]" as you very well know . . . if you feel that using weapons of mass destruction on the populations of Ramadi, Raqqa and Mosul (the 2nd largest city in Iraq) is called for to wipe out embedded ISIS militants, then say so clearly and i will properly pour ridicule on such madness

and (ii) where do you get off implying that i support the silly and dangerous idea of "negotiations" with Baghdadi & Co. you are having such a great time tilting at?

I know Raqqa has some 500k civilians. I also know Mosul is hostage.I never said attack these places with weapons of mass destruction. I said take out ISIS structures.

One  can carpet those 300 car convoys. We have refrained from bombing oil infrastructure and wells. These should not be off the list since on retreat they do set the well heads on fire. Everyone of the five dams under their control should be retaken since the already threaten to bomb them. As stated planely...they must be erased, physically from the planet.

I would flatten every fuel, food, and water resource. Ground troops has to be used to take and hold space and stop the emptying out of these places.

Sinjar for example should be abuzz with construction cranes and equipment making permanent secure homes for people to return. It is a matter of taking back land and holding it, making decent homes with infrastructure to make life worth living. These zones should be completely secure by ensuring no arms get in and every resident registered.

Something has to be done to stop this death cult from holding keeping and maintaining a presence in the region.

I have not mentioned baghdadi in any of my posts to date much less associating you with him or ISIS for that matter. That is your own imagination.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
seignet posted:

The Koran can never be revised. That would subject the contents as the absolute truths. The people who promote this religion are the people of the ME. The others are followers of their interpretations.

The other day I saw a video of a few muslims who want to reclaim their religion. I did not see any immans or Middle-Easterners in the group. Most Indo looking people.

No one wants to convert muslims or want to prove their beliefs are medieval. They put themselves into the frame. And beligerent about it.  

I said revised the relevance for us for certain passages as Christians have done with odious phrases in the bible. We do not condone slavery, stoning for adultery,  sex with under aged children, genocide etc. These are barbaric from where we stand. These are in the bible and treated as incidental to god's directive.

The idea of defending passages as not meaning as stated or taking phrasing and implying other context than is clear are all silly excuses for harmonizing antiquated behavior with modern outlook to life.  We must come to accept religious plurality. Christianity does not accept it but Christians live in secular political spaces. The horrible killings all through the christian era to only the middle of the last century were all circumscribed with creating hierarchic societies with some humans being deemed better than others. Those beliefs were injurious to life. They are all biblical but they are not part of normative social experience in the world today.

 

FM
caribny posted:
Stormborn posted:
.

The fact is someone has to stand up and say many of the medieval tenets of the faith has to go as Christians have already done. They do not stone women for adultery etc per Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Christians also do not sanitize their world of others of different faiths. Muslims have to make that stand and not bullshit about the perfect immutable laws when interpreted to be anti modern and anti human.

 

This is what Kari refuses to deal with. In fact Muslims suffer a double whammy from radicalized Islamists. Not only does the behavior of radicalized Islamists not only give cover to bigots like Trump and Maher to peddle their poison, but Muslims are also the biggest victims of these attacks. Several of those killed Paris were Muslims.

And this is especially true in the Middle East, and in Africa. where whole segments of the community are being wiped off because they represent the more intellectual traditions of Islam, while the jihadists want to remain primitive tribal nomads.

Kari should be directing discussion towards how Muslims can eliminate this scourge that is so problematic to the vast majority of Muslims.  Why are the mentally unbalanced so attracted to kill in the name of this religion?  That is a question that needs answers.

I would like Kari to describe exactly where I demand the extermination of the Muslim religion.

Indeed the people who have the greatest need to snuff out jihadi madness are Muslims because they suffer MOST.

1. The actions of these lunatics gives people ike Trump and Bill Maher ro engage in their bigotry.  You will note that Maher is liberal/left wing, so is hardly of the clothe that is usually connected to bigotry.

2. Muslims have suffered more deaths and disruptions by jihadi lunacy then any other group.  Not only this, but the jihadi lunatics are determined to eradicate any evidence that Muslims were once a fount of knowledge, in the sciences, governance, and in literature.

Kari quit being hysterical and understand that Muslims have an image problem, and ONLY Muslims can fix this!

FM
seignet posted:
Kari posted:

Caribny is pointing us all to a solution - eradicate the religion of Islam. Ask the 1.6 billion Muslims to convert to some other religion or atheism and burn all the Quran in the world and jail time for anyone who utters the word Islam or partake in the religion (ooops.....not a religion in that new regime). that is the solution he's looking for - like asking all Blacks to shed their black-ness. Or maybe he wants all the Muslims to pool their resources, but a nuke (it's possible, maybe...in caribny's world) and blow up Raqqa. Then round uip all the Muslims from the Middle East living in Europe and North america and intern them for life. Oh, those bastard Muslims of this world who wreak this terrorist insanity on this world of caribnys......and seigheil....and basement dweller.....oh, how they would love Muslims to come up with a solution to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism - yes this is a superior phrase that means Islam will be stricken from history - that would involver each of us killing each other. That's the only solution - caribny's final solution - like Hitler's. The kackass does not know Muslims' hatred for ISIL and Al Qaeda is a thousand time greater than his or SiegHeil or basement caveman. Tell us broddaman -what is the solution? Self-emolument?  Kari should be directing discussion towards how Muslims can eliminate this scourge - say the words and I will repeat them so you'll be happy. Do you want me to say all Indians are racists too?  What would satisfy you? What other yearnings of yours remain? I've heard Muslims mus tsay radical Islamic terrorists. Kill all Muslims.....what else genius? State what we must do oh brilliant mind of the human condition! For once categorically state "Kari...do this ....and do that...." I await your sage.

As ISIS is claiming, they are fulfilling end time prophecies. Then it would be the non-muslims who will have to suffer for their faith in Jesus Christ. By death or conversion. India is a good example of what may come.

The way I see it, there is a certain self pride in Islamic values. It is what is promoted as better than anything that is current. I cannot see Muslims amassing in large numbers to combat the evils that persists in Islam. They are the quiet participators of dominance. And they will be victorious. How else would the ancient words be a reality from which region of the world other than the mother of all false religions as stated in the Bible.

If America is the champion of freedom of speech, then Islam would flourish. Its Presidents are fools. Then again how else would the Righteous be persecuted by the Unrighteous. 

Let me make this real short, never trust an Islamist!!

FM
Stormborn posted:
. Where among Muslims have there been an outcry against their abuse of Indians and other Asians in the gulf states or the Coptic Christians in Egypt? Where has there been a concerted attempt in the Ulema to stop the anonymizing of women. It has no scriptural imperative. Muslims have a responsibility for their present predicament as well.

 

In fact Somalis and other African Muslims have noted, with shame, that they get help from white and black Christians, while non African Muslims ignore their plight.

Luck at poor Kenya, which has sheltered many African Muslims, only now to have become exposed to Islamist violence.

Kari can enlighten us about what non African Muslims have done to help.

FM
Stormborn posted:
redux posted:
Stormborn posted:
redux posted:
Stormborn posted:

Kari, how many times have i written to you and others here that the faith, the ulema, the learned interpreters of the faith has to define it for adherents and establish the boundaries of its propriety? How many times have I been ridiculed as a heathen attacking a perfect religion with perfect language, with perfect meaning accessible to all and therefore never suspect to false messaging.

But while Muslims get their house in order we have to stand on the wall. That is fair is it not? Brutish expressions or reversed humanity cannot be allowed to overwhelm us as it has Syria, Libya and Iraq. If might means carpet bombing the lot as some GOP folks suggest because survival is imperative and those people have become like zombies whose disease can be transmitted electronically.

As long as they hold ground, is seen as a "force", they will continue to infect our young. I do not even give a damn these days if tactical nukes are used. Extreme times demand extreme measures and we cannot have Muslim lands emptying out with all path leading west.

These people have to be stopped by any means necessary. We do not have space platforms with powerful lazers to take them out individually. We might have to carpet bombing their behinds like the russians are already doing.

stormborn, your last 3 paragraphs leave me scratching my head

"carpet bomb" . . . "tactical nukes"?

these are your real-world, American solutions? . . .  smh

at it's core, this is NOT a battle for Western survival . . . you are falling into the ISIS trap

it is simply a hegemonic (death?) struggle between Shia and Sunni Islam framed by the post-Sykes/Picot realities being played out in the Levant

we in the West have all kinds of lethal and extraordinarily effective options available to crush and inoculate ourselves from this disease short of the apocalypse u recommend and the desert psychopaths would welcome . . . it just takes patience and intelligence

pay attention to the tactical posture of the powers in the immediate neighborhood . . . it is instructive

sorry, this is far from existential

Dont give a shit about them any more. Any means to erase them is good from where I stand. People who can behead women and children are no longer people. Anything to erase them.... napalm, white phosphor..cluster bombs...take out every life sustaining infrastructure....I just do not care.

If Pakistan and Egypt becomes infected that is another 140 million of people enslaved. If they get their hands on those bombs it is our ass. They already used chemical weapons. Muslim nations are not going to go after them. Saudis bootstrapped them, Turkey buys their oil. or turns a blind eye to the trade.etc

Qatar is spending 122 billion on the world cup and poor Jordan is up to its neck in refugees with no help. Someone has to stop these people. Raqqa has to be leveled of all ISIS structures and the same with Mosul. Anywhere there is a black flag...take it out. One has to act like Genghis Khan with these folks. There is no room for negotiations.

stormborn, i will have a fuller response to the 'strategic' elements of your post later

however, i cannot allow you to misrepresent where i stand on such an important national security issue in furtherance of your polemic

(i) this is not about you [or me] "giving a shit about [ISIS]" as you very well know . . . if you feel that using weapons of mass destruction on the populations of Ramadi, Raqqa and Mosul (the 2nd largest city in Iraq) is called for to wipe out embedded ISIS militants, then say so clearly and i will properly pour ridicule on such madness

and (ii) where do you get off implying that i support the silly and dangerous idea of "negotiations" with Baghdadi & Co. you are having such a great time tilting at?

I know Raqqa has some 500k civilians. I also know Mosul is hostage.I never said attack these places with weapons of mass destruction. I said take out ISIS structures.

One  can carpet those 300 car convoys. We have refrained from bombing oil infrastructure and wells. These should not be off the list since on retreat they do set the well heads on fire. Everyone of the five dams under their control should be retaken since the already threaten to bomb them. As stated planely...they must be erased, physically from the planet.

I would flatten every fuel, food, and water resource. Ground troops has to be used to take and hold space and stop the emptying out of these places.

Sinjar for example should be abuzz with construction cranes and equipment making permanent secure homes for people to return. It is a matter of taking back land and holding it, making decent homes with infrastructure to make life worth living. These zones should be completely secure by ensuring no arms get in and every resident registered.

Something has to be done to stop this death cult from holding keeping and maintaining a presence in the region.

I have not mentioned baghdadi in any of my posts to date much less associating you with him or ISIS for that matter. That is your own imagination.

Listen Storm, we [US/UK] bombed the sh1t out of Dresden to get the Nazis to capitulate, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to get the Japs to capitulate.  From a civilian standpoint, Raqqa is minor compared.  So bomb the crap out of it and the people will kick out ISIS and never let them in again.  The Sunnis of Raqqa, Mosul, Ramadi are key success factors for ISIS.

FM
caribny posted:
Stormborn posted:
. Where among Muslims have there been an outcry against their abuse of Indians and other Asians in the gulf states or the Coptic Christians in Egypt? Where has there been a concerted attempt in the Ulema to stop the anonymizing of women. It has no scriptural imperative. Muslims have a responsibility for their present predicament as well.

 

In fact Somalis and other African Muslims have noted, with shame, that they get help from white and black Christians, while non African Muslims ignore their plight.

Luck at poor Kenya, which has sheltered many African Muslims, only now to have become exposed to Islamist violence.

Kari can enlighten us about what non African Muslims have done to help.

The Islamists in Iraq/Afgan take much more pride in killing Black marines than White.  Those fair-skinned Muslims [like Kari] don't give a damn about Black Muslims.  Just strap a suicide belt on, then they worth something.

FM
baseman posted:

. . . we [US/UK] bombed the sh1t out of Dresden to get the Nazis to capitulate, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to get the Japs to capitulate.  From a civilian standpoint, Raqqa is minor compared.  So bomb the crap out of it and the people will kick out ISIS and never let them in again.

quite the 6th Grade take on history, eh baseman

much stupid abroad on GNI of late . . . coward antiman like u front and center with the ignorance

no?

FM
redux posted:
baseman posted:

. . . we [US/UK] bombed the sh1t out of Dresden to get the Nazis to capitulate, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to get the Japs to capitulate.  From a civilian standpoint, Raqqa is minor compared.  So bomb the crap out of it and the people will kick out ISIS and never let them in again.

quite the 6th Grade take on history, eh baseman

much stupid abroad on GNI of late . . . coward antiman like u front and center with the ignorance

no?

Really pigmy, tell us what you know that military historians don't nah!  You pretend to know and seem to have all the time in the world to Google and research every posting for any inconsistency.  No one else have that much time waste.  So tell abie, which history book seh that mass civilian casualty was not a calculated outcome!

Now pigmy, do a lil re-read to refresh you semi-senile brain.

http://www.history.com/topics/...ii/battle-of-dresden

FM

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

S
seignet posted:

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

not because yuh old rass ready to ready to kick the bucket means the rest of the world should also be ready...stop talkin poop 

Yuh sure yuh not one of those on the corner of 42nd st with ah cardboard in his hand shouting "Repent!"

FM
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

not because yuh old rass ready to ready to kick the bucket means the rest of the world should also be ready...stop talkin poop 

Yuh sure yuh not one of those on the corner of 42nd st with ah cardboard in his hand shouting "Repent!"

Kari

I agree with Obama that ISIL cannot wipe out the US or the West. That civil war started with Assad's father against the Islamists way back when. Bush sent the Baathist generals into the arms of these Islamists.

 

You can say the same with Trump. The demographics in 2016 favors a Democrat dressed up as a monkey over the Republican candidate. Trump has his 40% of the Republicans polled. If 60% of those vote for him, his general elections numbers will make him look like Mondale to Reagan.

Kari
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

not because yuh old rass ready to ready to kick the bucket means the rest of the world should also be ready...stop talkin poop 

Yuh sure yuh not one of those on the corner of 42nd st with ah cardboard in his hand shouting "Repent!"

Yuh have the benefit of more years to witness what will come upon yuh fuh yuh stupidity. 

I am always puzzled by infantile minds who associate death with being old. As if being young, one escapes death.

S
Kari posted:

I agree with Obama that ISIL cannot wipe out the US or the West. That civil war started with Assad's father against the Islamists way back when. Bush sent the Baathist generals into the arms of these Islamists.

 

You can say the same with Trump. The demographics in 2016 favors a Democrat dressed up as a monkey over the Republican candidate. Trump has his 40% of the Republicans polled. If 60% of those vote for him, his general elections numbers will make him look like Mondale to Reagan.

Suh yuh prefer attrition. Let the Muslims fanatics kill as many Westerners as they feel like until they get fedup and stop on their own?

Obama should not be quoted on anything. As an American of African persuasion, his intellect does not prepare him to administer America as the Whites would do. Wait until the Republican gets in. Obama, makes all comments on a half as way. He says alot without substance. He seems to equate thing with sports, basketball, football, etc.

That's the way I see it. 

S
Kari posted:
caribny posted:

Kari quit being hysterical and understand that Muslims have an image problem, and ONLY Muslims can fix this!

Tell me how!

I am not a Muslim. That is for Muslims to discuss and develop strategies.

1.  Why are there elements within that religion who have a literal interpretation of the Holy Book? Both Jews and Christians have moved beyond this.

2. Why do Muslims allow Bedouin Arabs like the Saudis insert their primitive tribalism as fact, this especially in their intolerance for other religions, their harsh punishments even for Muslims who don't adhere to their primitive interpretation of the Quran, and their treatment of women. The Bedouinization of the religion has become apparent. 

Long lost are the days when Islam was defined by Baghdad, Cairo, Timbuktu, and Andalusia (Spain).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...iving_b_7088320.html

This outline an era when the Christians were the terrorists with primitive interpretations of the Bible, while Islam represented knowledge and tolerance. 

Muslims need to figure out how to remove the Wahhabis from their dominance of the religion.  It is this conservative interpretation which leads to lunatics, then MISINTERPRETING the Quran.  FACT.  Al Qaeda got their money from some where, as did ISIS, before the latter conquered territory and so became able to create their economy.

 

FM
Kari posted:

 

You can say the same with Trump. The demographics in 2016 favors a Democrat dressed up as a monkey over the Republican candidate. Trump has his 40% of the Republicans polled. If 60% of those vote for him, his general elections numbers will make him look like Mondale to Reagan.

I will suggest to you that complacency will guarantee that the GOP will win.

FACT. The core constituency of the Democrats, blacks, Hispanics, and the youth of all races never recovered from the Bush induced recession, and signs are that the economy will slow again in 2016.  Will they bother to vote, now that there isn't a charismatic person, as was the case in 2008? 

Suppose Trump, assuming that he wins, suddenly becomes "reasonable". and the media, which he obviously "owns", peddles his "new" image, to a population who are basically cynical of the Clintons?  Americans have very short memories and the media are a bunch of drug addicts hustling for ratings, which Trump has proven that he can deliver.

So if Democrats think that the election is in the bag, they over estimate their core bases tendency to sit out elections, when they aren't enthused about the candidate.  Hillary just found out that young white women don't really like her.

FM
seignet posted:
 

Obama should not be quoted on anything. As an American of African persuasion, his intellect does not prepare him to administer America as the Whites would do.

That's the way I see it. 

Its amazing how you are a bigot, but will readily deny it.  One can say what ever one wishes about Obama, but to claim that he has limited intellect, and to cite racial reasons for this, just shows how limited YOUR intellect is.

I will remember this next time you call me a racist and I will challenge you to tell me any statement made by me about Indians, which rises to what you are saying.

FM
caribny posted:
seignet posted:
 

Obama should not be quoted on anything. As an American of African persuasion, his intellect does not prepare him to administer America as the Whites would do.

That's the way I see it. 

Its amazing how you are a bigot, but will readily deny it.  One can say what ever one wishes about Obama, but to claim that he has limited intellect, and to cite racial reasons for this, just shows how limited YOUR intellect is.

I will remember this next time you call me a racist and I will challenge you to tell me any statement made by me about Indians, which rises to what you are saying.

Yuh see Bush, he din hesitate to kill people. Obama, he is not like Bush and can never be like a White American. Dem people dat, mek a decision, brush dem teeth and have good night sleep. Obama, I bet he razz swim the bed all night. He juss act tough.

Like I said, that's the way I see it. No racism involved. Races of people act differently. 

S

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Chief
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Why only atheists? Why not everyone..Buddhists, Christians, Hindus...?

FM
skeldon_man posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Why only atheists? Why not everyone..Buddhists, Christians, Hindus...?

Atheists dont believe religious mumbo jumbo,suh they want to enfold them. I am exploring the atheist belief and tending to lean that way.

Django
Last edited by Django
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Here is the tolerance in Islam for D2.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/re.../022-qmt.php#022.019

022.019
YUSUFALI: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
PICKTHAL: These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,
SHAKIR: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.

022.020
YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;
SHAKIR: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

022.021
YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron.
SHAKIR: And for them are whips of iron.

022.022
YUSUFALI: Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
PICKTHAL: Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
SHAKIR: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.

Mars
skeldon_man posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Why only atheists? Why not everyone..Buddhists, Christians, Hindus...?

That's correct everyone else.

Sorry.

Chief
Mars posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Here is the tolerance in Islam for D2.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/re.../022-qmt.php#022.019

022.019
YUSUFALI: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
PICKTHAL: These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,
SHAKIR: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.

022.020
YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;
SHAKIR: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

022.021
YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron.
SHAKIR: And for them are whips of iron.

022.022
YUSUFALI: Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
PICKTHAL: Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
SHAKIR: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.

Muslims like other people of the book believe in the day of Judgemet and that is what will be meted out on that day.

It does not say that mankind must dispense that.

Chief
seignet posted:

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

Dude, the preoccupation with signs and  symbols as immutable text of  a deterministic universe prescribing events and those like you are official interpreters of its prophesy are the kind of bullshit that has created an confused brutes as ISIS. They like you are  "end of times" believers.

White people and black people and brown people are worried about these fools but not for the reasons you believe.  There are no internal armies and even if it were possible to convince all Muslims in the US to be ISIS followers they would not win.

Actually, Muslims in general are quite of a different  view from them.  Indian Muslims,  Bosnian Muslims and most Muslim in the ME are.  Kurd are mainly Muslims and they are the ones fighting them. All of Shia Iran are fighting them ( for their own reasons)those running away are not Christians alone but mostly muslims!

Also, you are inventing crap about Obama like Trump.  He is Christian and has a world view that is rational and not prescriptive even of his christian beliefs.  He may differ with most of us on how we fight ISIS but fighting them is what he is committed to do and he as the rest of us will see the end of t hem. Muslims will be integral to that. They will come to save themselves because this evil is spawned by their neglect and in many case arrogance and now it threatens them.

FM
Chief posted:
Mars posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Here is the tolerance in Islam for D2.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/re.../022-qmt.php#022.019

022.019
YUSUFALI: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
PICKTHAL: These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,
SHAKIR: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.

022.020
YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;
SHAKIR: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

022.021
YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron.
SHAKIR: And for them are whips of iron.

022.022
YUSUFALI: Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
PICKTHAL: Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
SHAKIR: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.

Muslims like other people of the book believe in the day of Judgemet and that is what will be meted out on that day.

It does not say that mankind must dispense that.

I do not give a crap what is written in the book. I care as to  how it is expressed and you can quote it to kingdom come it is full of contrary crap and spawns all sorts of confusion. In short, it is like the Bible from which it  sourced its ideas and like the bible it has to come to terms with its backwardness where it exists.

I do not get into arguing scriptures for the sake of arguing the words. I argue history because that is what the lives of real people projects. Muslims has to get their shit together or infestations as ISIS is the consequence of the messaging confusion from their book.

They will have to come to terms with the reality that their lands are the most misruled, accursed in parts, and permits all sorts of debauchery. The endless excuses, disinterest and pretenses that the good book is all that will save the day is for the birds.

It will not dispel the immorality of the Saudis and Gulf states living lives of ostentatious consumption on the backs of slave labor while 90% of the world's Muslim suffers intolerable poverty.

It will not salvage them from the curse of anonymized humanity in the form of one half of their population, women, living lives for the most part no different from a heifer in the pasture. That is the legacy of the book and the blindness of pretentious Muslims as you.

 

FM
Chief posted:
Mars posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

Here is the tolerance in Islam for D2.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/re.../022-qmt.php#022.019

022.019
YUSUFALI: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
PICKTHAL: These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,
SHAKIR: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.

022.020
YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;
SHAKIR: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

022.021
YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron.
SHAKIR: And for them are whips of iron.

022.022
YUSUFALI: Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
PICKTHAL: Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
SHAKIR: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.

Muslims like other people of the book believe in the day of Judgemet and that is what will be meted out on that day.

It does not say that mankind must dispense that.

Did I mention anything about mankind? You said that Islam has tolerance for Atheists and I'm showing you the treatment Islam recommends for Atheists.

Mars
Last edited by Mars
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

That is the kind of bullcrap that makes one get up from their rock and throw it at you Muslim head. It is of the diseased kind. There is no compulsion to religion but of it came the concept of the Dhimmitude. Speak to that you ignorant hypocritical twit. Islam razes churches to build mosques. That is what it does. I am happy as an atheists you cannot take from me the ceilings of my cathedral...the sky.

FM
Chief posted:
 

Muslims like other people of the book believe in the day of Judgemet and that is what will be meted out on that day.

It does not say that mankind must dispense that.

And yet some Muslims do think that it is up to mankind to dispense that.  The jihadi nutcases, and the religious police in Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere.

FM
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

FM

About a month ago, I listened to sort of a lecture for an hour. Whilst listening, Leslie came to mind. The topic was on the  Atheist.

I was very much interested. I wanted to get the insight of the atheist mind.

Now that you Django is contemplating the atheist way of thinking. I will share.

I sort of gather what the men who believe in the existence of God was saying. However, their explanation for the contradiction of the atheist mind baffles me a bit. It sort of makes sense to me, but not enough to cause the Atheist to say," Ummm."

Here we go. They said, there is no established criteria for determining beauty, but yet each of us ascertain beauty. Including the atheist. The same thing about God, there is no established criteria for the Atheist. But such an individual sees the mathematics of the universe and fails to recognize the existence of Superior Being. Even Big Bang Theory have an order about it.

My thoughts, God is very much in existence. Man kind seys all kinds of things about the Almighty, believing their ethnic groupings have the correct and proper ways of His Worship. 

 

 

 

S
Stormborn posted:
seignet posted:

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

Dude, the preoccupation with signs and  symbols as immutable text of  a deterministic universe prescribing events and those like you are official interpreters of its prophesy are the kind of bullshit that has created an confused brutes as ISIS. They like you are  "end of times" believers.

White people and black people and brown people are worried about these fools but not for the reasons you believe.  There are no internal armies and even if it were possible to convince all Muslims in the US to be ISIS followers they would not win.

Actually, Muslims in general are quite of a different  view from them.  Indian Muslims,  Bosnian Muslims and most Muslim in the ME are.  Kurd are mainly Muslims and they are the ones fighting them. All of Shia Iran are fighting them ( for their own reasons)those running away are not Christians alone but mostly muslims!

Also, you are inventing crap about Obama like Trump.  He is Christian and has a world view that is rational and not prescriptive even of his christian beliefs.  He may differ with most of us on how we fight ISIS but fighting them is what he is committed to do and he as the rest of us will see the end of t hem. Muslims will be integral to that. They will come to save themselves because this evil is spawned by their neglect and in many case arrogance and now it threatens them.

The people who declared the war, seys they fulfilling end time prophecies.

And if their version of it in the Koran is like anything in the Bible, it ain't happy days. 

S
baseman posted:

Really pigmy, tell us what you know that military historians don't nah!  You pretend to know and seem to have all the time in the world to Google and research every posting for any inconsistency.  No one else have that much time waste.  So tell abie, which history book seh that mass civilian casualty was not a calculated outcome!

Now pigmy, do a lil re-read to refresh you semi-senile brain.

 http://www.history.com/topics/...ii/battle-of-dresden

ow bai, is good that u appreciate and now taking time to learn use wan wan search engine . . . dem "inconsistencies" of yours does add up quick quick and before u know it, u hugging up nehru and cobra in stupidman land

now, go read some actual books on these subjects and upgrade yuhself before i get vex and embarrass u like in de recent ole days

and start with spelling . . . is "pygmy" not "pigmy"

quite a common error with the poorly read crowd . . . no worries

FM
Last edited by Former Member
redux posted:
baseman posted:

Really pigmy, tell us what you know that military historians don't nah!  You pretend to know and seem to have all the time in the world to Google and research every posting for any inconsistency.  No one else have that much time waste.  So tell abie, which history book seh that mass civilian casualty was not a calculated outcome!

Now pigmy, do a lil re-read to refresh you semi-senile brain.

 http://www.history.com/topics/...ii/battle-of-dresden

ow bai, is good that u appreciate and now taking time to learn use wan wan search engine . . . dem "inconsistencies" of yours does add up quick quick and before u know it, u hugging up nehru and cobra in stupidman land

now, go read some actual books on these subjects and upgrade yuhself before i get vex and embarrass u like in de recent ole days

and start with spelling . . . is "pygmy" not "pigmy"

quite a common error with the poorly read crowd . . . no worries

Maybe I tried to separate you from the little people of Africa, Pigmy!

FM
baseman posted:
redux posted:
baseman posted:

Really pigmy, tell us what you know that military historians don't nah!  You pretend to know and seem to have all the time in the world to Google and research every posting for any inconsistency.  No one else have that much time waste.  So tell abie, which history book seh that mass civilian casualty was not a calculated outcome!

Now pigmy, do a lil re-read to refresh you semi-senile brain.

 http://www.history.com/topics/...ii/battle-of-dresden

ow bai, is good that u appreciate and now taking time to learn use wan wan search engine . . . dem "inconsistencies" of yours does add up quick quick and before u know it, u hugging up nehru and cobra in stupidman land

now, go read some actual books on these subjects and upgrade yuhself before i get vex and embarrass u like in de recent ole days

and start with spelling . . . is "pygmy" not "pigmy"

quite a common error with the poorly read crowd . . . no worries

Maybe I tried to separate you from the little people of Africa, Pigmy!

nah . . . you're just poorly educated

FM
caribny posted:
Kari posted:
caribny posted:

Kari quit being hysterical and understand that Muslims have an image problem, and ONLY Muslims can fix this!

Tell me how!

I am not a Muslim. That is for Muslims to discuss and develop strategies.

1.  Why are there elements within that religion who have a literal interpretation of the Holy Book? Both Jews and Christians have moved beyond this.

2. Why do Muslims allow Bedouin Arabs like the Saudis insert their primitive tribalism as fact, this especially in their intolerance for other religions, their harsh punishments even for Muslims who don't adhere to their primitive interpretation of the Quran, and their treatment of women. The Bedouinization of the religion has become apparent. 

Long lost are the days when Islam was defined by Baghdad, Cairo, Timbuktu, and Andalusia (Spain).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...iving_b_7088320.html

This outline an era when the Christians were the terrorists with primitive interpretations of the Bible, while Islam represented knowledge and tolerance. 

Muslims need to figure out how to remove the Wahhabis from their dominance of the religion.  It is this conservative interpretation which leads to lunatics, then MISINTERPRETING the Quran.  FACT.  Al Qaeda got their money from some where, as did ISIS, before the latter conquered territory and so became able to create their economy.

 

This request was rhetorical. It was meant to highlight the irony of anyone calling on Muslims to do something, anything; as if they are the keepers of ISIL and Al Qaeda and it is no one else's business. It was meant to elicit babble from you and you gleefully obliged and in your usually indulgent way. Keep on trucking.......

Kari
Stormborn posted:
seignet posted:

If it is signs of the times, then ISIS will prevail and the West will feel the wrought of its armies within.  The year of 2015, will go down in history as the year when the Islamist began their fear tactic on the West. And White people are worried. As soon as Obama leaves the White House and a Republican takes over, the war on ME muslims will intensify. Obama is a ME muslim sympathizer-billions of US$ is spent on muslim countries to appease them for America's safety. It doan work. Time for smitherines.

Dude, the preoccupation with signs and  symbols as immutable text of  a deterministic universe prescribing events and those like you are official interpreters of its prophesy are the kind of bullshit that has created an confused brutes as ISIS. They like you are  "end of times" believers.

White people and black people and brown people are worried about these fools but not for the reasons you believe.  There are no internal armies and even if it were possible to convince all Muslims in the US to be ISIS followers they would not win.

Actually, Muslims in general are quite of a different  view from them.  Indian Muslims,  Bosnian Muslims and most Muslim in the ME are.  Kurd are mainly Muslims and they are the ones fighting them. All of Shia Iran are fighting them ( for their own reasons)those running away are not Christians alone but mostly muslims!

Also, you are inventing crap about Obama like Trump.  He is Christian and has a world view that is rational and not prescriptive even of his christian beliefs.  He may differ with most of us on how we fight ISIS but fighting them is what he is committed to do and he as the rest of us will see the end of t hem. Muslims will be integral to that. They will come to save themselves because this evil is spawned by their neglect and in many case arrogance and now it threatens them.

There's a lot of sense in Stormy's comments.

Kari
baseman posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

It's your hero G W Bush (You dropped his image for another clown for your avatar) who helped the House of Saud through all the economic and military hurdles over the 50 years or so of Saudi oil dominance. He handed Iraq to his axis of evil country Iran. So you baseman supported Bush who supported the Wahabbis. See....

Kari
Kari posted:
baseman posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

It's your hero G W Bush (You dropped his image for another clown for your avatar) who helped the House of Saud through all the economic and military hurdles over the 50 years or so of Saudi oil dominance. He handed Iraq to his axis of evil country Iran. So you baseman supported Bush who supported the Wahabbis. See....

Ok, next time I get a fly catcher so we have something in common!

FM

First they came for the Buddhist, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Buddhist.

Then they came for the Christians, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Christian.

Then they came for the Hindus, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a hindu.

Then they came for me—a fellow Muslim and there was no one left to speak for me.

The only option left for me is to run the Christian  countries because even my fellow Muslim dos'nt want me in there country....

 

sachin_05
Stormborn posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

That is the kind of bullcrap that makes one get up from their rock and throw it at you Muslim head. It is of the diseased kind. There is no compulsion to religion but of it came the concept of the Dhimmitude. Speak to that you ignorant hypocritical twit. Islam razes churches to build mosques. That is what it does. I am happy as an atheists you cannot take from me the ceilings of my cathedral...the sky.

You mean Muslims buy out Churches to build Mosques, that is what is happening in America. 

We pay top dollars too, just ask the church leaders who pocketed some of that money.

Chief
baseman posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

S
seignet posted:
baseman posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

FM
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:
baseman posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

For that region, it is a very old custom. Try telling dem otherwise. And expect a beheading. It has nothing to do wid Islam or Muslims. These are people as old as time, they have had centuries of conflicts. Killing is a national pass time-the medes, the persians, the assyrians, the syrians, the babylonians. Same people who evolved as muslims with tribal affiliations. Sunni, Shite and Kurds.

S
Last edited by seignet

Riff Ray them bhai's are defenders and guardians, they were appointed to be so in their feeble mind, religion is making this world insane all because every religious man think that them is god the almighty    

ball
Kari posted:
 

This request was rhetorical. It was meant to highlight the irony of anyone calling on Muslims to do something, anything; as if they are the keepers of ISIL and Al Qaeda and it is no one else's business. It was meant to elicit babble from you and you gleefully obliged and in your usually indulgent way. Keep on trucking.......

You as a Muslim suffer more from those lunatics, more than I as a non Muslim do.  The only impact on me is my need to take off my belt, shoes,  containers with liquid, etc

If you are happy with the increasing reaction towards Muslims, feel free.

Just note that YOU felt the need to initiate this, and many similar threads on this topic, so clearly it is of bother to you.

FACT.  This Muslim problem is most amplified with the Al Qaeda and ISIS.  But it is hardly confined to them.  Some one is funding these groups. 

 

But as thousands of Muslims are slaughtered, and hundreds of thousands of Muslims are forced to flee, with many having to depend on the goodwill of CHRISTIANS, because of MUSLIMS feel free.  You don't really care about your fellow Muslims it is obvious.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Kari posted:
Stormborn posted:
 Muslims will be integral to that. They will come to save themselves because this evil is spawned by their neglect and in many case arrogance and now it threatens them.

There's a lot of sense in Stormy's comments.

Apparently you didn't see what Storm born said.  He is actually harsher on Muslims than I am, in that he blames "neglect and arrogance which now threatens them". 

I merely suggest that Muslims are the biggest victims of this lunacy, and not non Muslims, despite Trump's screams.  Therefore Muslims have to figure out solutions, before others find solutions for them.

Don't trust a politician, looking at the polls, to protect you.

FM
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:
 

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

Other Muslims who have allowed them to play a central role.

Since when did some Caribbean Muslim women start covering up their necks and hair, and why did they suddenly start doing this?

FM
ball posted:

Siggy what gospel and wisdom that an atheist have and promotes?   

That there is no god. And dem is just an accident of nature. When dem die, there is no life after dat. If yuh doan accept that by some, dey consider that to be stupid. Suh dey agrue like it is a gospel.

S
caribny posted:
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:
 

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

Other Muslims who have allowed them to play a central role.

Since when did some Caribbean Muslim women start covering up their necks and hair, and why did they suddenly start doing this?

That was happening since in the seventies when the Guyana government allowed the Saudies to influence Guyanese muslims. Alot of  money was passed around.

S
seignet posted:
caribny posted:
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:
 

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

Other Muslims who have allowed them to play a central role.

Since when did some Caribbean Muslim women start covering up their necks and hair, and why did they suddenly start doing this?

That was happening since in the seventies when the Guyana government allowed the Saudies to influence Guyanese muslims. Alot of  money was passed around.

That was under the late great!

I know de ma, You know de man and all awee know de man!

Chief
Chief posted:
Stormborn posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

That is the kind of bullcrap that makes one get up from their rock and throw it at you Muslim head. It is of the diseased kind. There is no compulsion to religion but of it came the concept of the Dhimmitude. Speak to that you ignorant hypocritical twit. Islam razes churches to build mosques. That is what it does. I am happy as an atheists you cannot take from me the ceilings of my cathedral...the sky.

You mean Muslims buy out Churches to build Mosques, that is what is happening in America. 

We pay top dollars too, just ask the church leaders who pocketed some of that money.

Dude, if Muslims were concerned with PR they would not do that. Instead it is arrogance...these are emblems of failed Christianity and the rise of Islam! You said that here!

I do not care to argue this point because I would begin with the Kabba where Hubal and this three wives, the home of animist gods was appropriated and presumed to be Biet Allah.

FM
caribny posted:
Kari posted:
Stormborn posted:
 Muslims will be integral to that. They will come to save themselves because this evil is spawned by their neglect and in many case arrogance and now it threatens them.

There's a lot of sense in Stormy's comments.

Apparently you didn't see what Storm born said.  He is actually harsher on Muslims than I am, in that he blames "neglect and arrogance which now threatens them". 

I merely suggest that Muslims are the biggest victims of this lunacy, and not non Muslims, despite Trump's screams.  Therefore Muslims have to figure out solutions, before others find solutions for them.

Don't trust a politician, looking at the polls, to protect you.

You are misquoting me. I said neglect, ignorance, presumptuousness, arrogance and overwhelming pride matched by contemptuous disrespect for non Muslims leading to what could rightfully be defined as a medieval, anti modern state of mind that leaves 90% of the ummah in a state of horrible poverty and spawns awful internecine tribal violence in its ranks. Presently, it is cannibalizing itself while most Muslims close their eyes to the awful consequences of  charlatans as interpreters of their holy text.

FM
Chief posted:
seignet posted:
caribny posted:
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:
 

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

Other Muslims who have allowed them to play a central role.

Since when did some Caribbean Muslim women start covering up their necks and hair, and why did they suddenly start doing this?

That was happening since in the seventies when the Guyana government allowed the Saudies to influence Guyanese muslims. Alot of  money was passed around.

That was under the late great!

I know de ma, You know de man and all awee know de man!

Yuh talking about Mohammad Khan, Bobby Khan or Forbes Burnham?

S
Stormborn posted:
Chief posted:
Stormborn posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

That is the kind of bullcrap that makes one get up from their rock and throw it at you Muslim head. It is of the diseased kind. There is no compulsion to religion but of it came the concept of the Dhimmitude. Speak to that you ignorant hypocritical twit. Islam razes churches to build mosques. That is what it does. I am happy as an atheists you cannot take from me the ceilings of my cathedral...the sky.

You mean Muslims buy out Churches to build Mosques, that is what is happening in America. 

We pay top dollars too, just ask the church leaders who pocketed some of that money.

Dude, if Muslims were concerned with PR they would not do that. Instead it is arrogance...these are emblems of failed Christianity and the rise of Islam! You said that here!

I do not care to argue this point because I would begin with the Kabba where Hubal and this three wives, the home of animist gods was appropriated and presumed to be Biet Allah.

There is no god other than Allah, Mohammed his messenger. Allah has only one messenger. Only for ME muslims. They understand the Holy Book just as ISIS is interpreting it.  

S
RiffRaff posted:
seignet posted:
baseman posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

And nuff alyuh follow them and that evil doctrine.  And why you cuss me, I always refer to Wahabs and their sympathizer, and their evil leaders in the House of Saud.

The House of Saud is guardian of the religion. The Wahabs are the priest. Is like any ancient beliefs. The holy men instructing the kings. 

Why are they the guardians of the religion? WHo made them guardians?

People like Chief who cheer on as their foot soldiers slit the throats of infidels!

FM
baseman posted:

People like Chief who cheer on as their foot soldiers slit the throats of infidels!

Yuh bwoi Bush muss be wondering how he got so confused with Wahabbi, Sunni, Shiite, etc. Your confusion is excusable as you only run around with bigotry, but Bush and Trump?

Kari
Stormborn posted:
caribny posted:
Kari posted:
Stormborn posted:
 Muslims will be integral to that. They will come to save themselves because this evil is spawned by their neglect and in many case arrogance and now it threatens them.

There's a lot of sense in Stormy's comments.

Apparently you didn't see what Storm born said.  He is actually harsher on Muslims than I am, in that he blames "neglect and arrogance which now threatens them". 

I merely suggest that Muslims are the biggest victims of this lunacy, and not non Muslims, despite Trump's screams.  Therefore Muslims have to figure out solutions, before others find solutions for them.

Don't trust a politician, looking at the polls, to protect you.

You are misquoting me. I said neglect, ignorance, presumptuousness, arrogance and overwhelming pride matched by contemptuous disrespect for non Muslims leading to what could rightfully be defined as a medieval, anti modern state of mind that leaves 90% of the ummah in a state of horrible poverty and spawns awful internecine tribal violence in its ranks. Presently, it is cannibalizing itself while most Muslims close their eyes to the awful consequences of  charlatans as interpreters of their holy text.

Which indicts non jihadi Muslims more than I do, yet Kari sees validity in your comments......Strange for a man who doesn't think that non jihadi Muslims need do anything to improve the image of Islam.

FM
Kari posted:
baseman posted:

People like Chief who cheer on as their foot soldiers slit the throats of infidels!

Yuh bwoi Bush muss be wondering how he got so confused with Wahabbi, Sunni, Shiite, etc. Your confusion is excusable as you only run around with bigotry, but Bush and Trump?

Listen banna, i know you are a smart Google grad.  I am critical of Saudi an their terror brand.  I don't criticize the Turks, Jordan, etc.  Infact the Turkish and other Asian brands of Sunni Islam would make the world a better place. But Saudi and their money makes the world a dangerous place!

FM
Chief posted:
Stormborn posted:
Chief posted:

ISIS and the whabis hijack the religion Islam

Islam is a way of life and in it's revered book it speaks about tolerance for people like D2 who are atheists. Says in the Holy Quran " There is no compulsion in religion".

.

That is the kind of bullcrap that makes one get up from their rock and throw it at you Muslim head. It is of the diseased kind. There is no compulsion to religion but of it came the concept of the Dhimmitude. Speak to that you ignorant hypocritical twit. Islam razes churches to build mosques. That is what it does. I am happy as an atheists you cannot take from me the ceilings of my cathedral...the sky.

You mean Muslims buy out Churches to build Mosques, that is what is happening in America. 

We pay top dollars too, just ask the church leaders who pocketed some of that money.

What if trump buys a mosque, and bulldoze it.  Isn't that what the people in Ayodhya did.  What was all the hallabaloo about?

FM
 

Dude, if Muslims were concerned with PR they would not do that. Instead it is arrogance...these are emblems of failed Christianity and the rise of Islam! You said that here!

I do not care to argue this point because I would begin with the Kabba where Hubal and this three wives, the home of animist gods was appropriated and presumed to be Biet Allah.

That is the best PR.

iSLAM IS ON THE RISE!

Chief

Chief, we have to listen to the claims in this topic, which can be summarized thus:

  • Islam has a problem - all the killings, terrorism and the change in lifestyle of non-Muslims by having to remove shoes, etc, at airports
  • Islam must be cleaned up
  • Only Muslims can clean up Islam

Basically the evidence being proffered is that there is an arrogance in Islam. It is THE only religion, etc.

In essence Christianity had its reformation at around the same age as Islam is now, Judaism also had a reformation. Islam needs one now - and it must be by Muslims. Is this incompatible with the faith that the Quran is immutable? Or is this the wrong question, and it should be whether the interpretation of the Quran that is the problem. Whether Islam is on the rise or not is not the real question.

Kari

I saw a sign which read the following and it is so true.

I should make it up on a tshirt.

Humans are not a very bright species at times.We kill one another over arguments about what we think happens after we die and completely fail to see the fkin irony in that

cain
Kari posted:

Chief, we have to listen to the claims in this topic, which can be summarized thus:

  • Islam has a problem - all the killings, terrorism and the change in lifestyle of non-Muslims by having to remove shoes, etc, at airports
  • Islam must be cleaned up
  • Only Muslims can clean up Islam

Basically the evidence being proffered is that there is an arrogance in Islam. It is THE only religion, etc.

In essence Christianity had its reformation at around the same age as Islam is now, Judaism also had a reformation. Islam needs one now - and it must be by Muslims. Is this incompatible with the faith that the Quran is immutable? Or is this the wrong question, and it should be whether the interpretation of the Quran that is the problem. Whether Islam is on the rise or not is not the real question.

Islam was once enlightened until it fell under the control of desert Bedouins. It is well within the capability of Muslims to return Islam to a modernized version of what it was before the Turkish primitives damaged it, and an anti intellectual tradition took over.  Islam suffered even more when the Turkish empire broke up and the desert nomads filled the vacuum.

In fact why don't we hear more of the narrative of how much the world owes to the intellectual and scientific traditions of the Muslims, when during the medieval era they generated and acted as a conduit for knowledge flows between Asia, Europe and Africa?  

This might serve to educate many as to the fact that Islam is as complex a religion as is Christianity.  It might be then easier to transmit the fact that jihadis are no more typical of Muslims, than are the Christian nuts who shoot up abortion centers, or who worship snakes.

It will also make sense for Jews, Christians and Muslims to cease pretending as if these are different religions, or that one is better than the others.  Given that Islam draws from these two older religious traditions, maybe Muslims are the most knowledgeable as to how related these 3 religions are.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Kari posted:

Chief, we have to listen to the claims in this topic, which can be summarized thus:

  • Islam has a problem - all the killings, terrorism and the change in lifestyle of non-Muslims by having to remove shoes, etc, at airports
  • Islam must be cleaned up
  • Only Muslims can clean up Islam

Basically the evidence being proffered is that there is an arrogance in Islam. It is THE only religion, etc.

In essence Christianity had its reformation at around the same age as Islam is now, Judaism also had a reformation. Islam needs one now - and it must be by Muslims. Is this incompatible with the faith that the Quran is immutable? Or is this the wrong question, and it should be whether the interpretation of the Quran that is the problem. Whether Islam is on the rise or not is not the real question.

Here is my take, Islam has no problem, PERIOD!!!

iF YOU SUBSCRIBE TO "ISLAM HAS A PROBLEM" THEN BASICALLY WE ARE SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH OUR QURAN AND OUR NOBLE AND HOLY PROPHET !

Bull crap!!

When the UN , The Pope and people of good sense was warning George Bush and Blair that is was wrong to attack and invade  sovereign  muslim nations, did they listen/ Hell no! So today people who have seen their lives disrupted and families got bombed out , what did they turn to, violence.

 

 Carib J came here and argued about when blacks are denied opportunities  both in Guyana and else where what was the result. Similarly muslims in that part of the world suffered so much because of the super powers. Russia invaded Afghanistan then it was the war between Irag  then American invasion.

I am on record to say that yes some people is trying to hijack the religion however other religions and group has their extremists as well.

The real Islam of love and compassion will survive and I ain't losing no sleep.

 

 

 

Chief

Chief, it is not so much that Islam has no problem or Islam is the problem. It is that those who are associated with terrorism and beheadings in this day and age and who espouse civilization end and the clash of civilizations are from Muslim homes. That is the problem. I hear you about Islam not having a problem and indeed I quoted that writer for the NY Times who says that to subscribe to Islam is a problem is to deny the Quran.

 

We also know that without the Iraq upheaval in 2003 there would be no ISIS. Without the US troops in Saudi Arabia in 1990 to force Iraq out of Kuwait there would have been no Al Qaeda. Iraq is central to Al Qaeda's formation  - Osama was a US ally against the Russians in Afghanistan; and to ISIS - the ISIS army and Administrators are the Baathists who used to rule Iraq under Saddam. The Alawites in Syria were fighting Islamists since Assad's father Hafiz Al Assad, and now the Baathists there have joined up with Saddam's Baathists.

 

Why are Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds and other Muslim sects fighting their deadly war and bombings of mosques and other historic atefacts? Iis it religion or some tribal war?

 

Understanding and acknowledging the above would not necessarily answer the question as to whether Islam is an anti-peace religion, but it would go a long way towards making us not ask this question. That has been my arguments here against caribny, baseman and Itaname. It's a silly, semantic question. Of course we know Muslims have to banish these heretics from Islam. But there is no papacy in Islam. Declaring a Fatwah against ISIS does not work. I keep asking caribny et al - what should we Muslims do? Commit suicide? Go fight ISIS? I say nuke Raqqa and elsewhere and use the same reasoning as we did in Hiroshima - to save lives by killing some lives. That will stop people asking whether Islam is a bogus religion or a violent ideology.

Kari
Chief posted:
 

Dude, if Muslims were concerned with PR they would not do that. Instead it is arrogance...these are emblems of failed Christianity and the rise of Islam! You said that here!

I do not care to argue this point because I would begin with the Kabba where Hubal and this three wives, the home of animist gods was appropriated and presumed to be Biet Allah.

That is the best PR.

iSLAM IS ON THE RISE!

It will rear it's ugly head just like Nazism, them be sent back to the stone age where it belongs.  It having it's hay day due to the grace of the Christian West!

FM

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

FM

As long as you dance and prance when "infidels" are being slaughtered and brutalize by your Wahab brothers, then baseman and most humankind will have you in their black book.  For basemen, guilty until proven innocent!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Chief posted:
Kari posted:

Chief, we have to listen to the claims in this topic, which can be summarized thus:

  • Islam has a problem - all the killings, terrorism and the change in lifestyle of non-Muslims by having to remove shoes, etc, at airports
  • Islam must be cleaned up
  • Only Muslims can clean up Islam

Basically the evidence being proffered is that there is an arrogance in Islam. It is THE only religion, etc.

In essence Christianity had its reformation at around the same age as Islam is now, Judaism also had a reformation. Islam needs one now - and it must be by Muslims. Is this incompatible with the faith that the Quran is immutable? Or is this the wrong question, and it should be whether the interpretation of the Quran that is the problem. Whether Islam is on the rise or not is not the real question.

Here is my take, Islam has no problem, PERIOD!!!

iF YOU SUBSCRIBE TO "ISLAM HAS A PROBLEM" THEN BASICALLY WE ARE SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH OUR QURAN AND OUR NOBLE AND HOLY PROPHET !

Bull crap!!

When the UN , The Pope and people of good sense was warning George Bush and Blair that is was wrong to attack and invade  sovereign  muslim nations, did they listen/ Hell no! So today people who have seen their lives disrupted and families got bombed out , what did they turn to, violence.

 

 Carib J came here and argued about when blacks are denied opportunities  both in Guyana and else where what was the result. Similarly muslims in that part of the world suffered so much because of the super powers. Russia invaded Afghanistan then it was the war between Irag  then American invasion.

I am on record to say that yes some people is trying to hijack the religion however other religions and group has their extremists as well.

The real Islam of love and compassion will survive and I ain't losing no sleep.

 

 

 

Don't quote the gracious Christian Pope.  Wahabi Islam stands for terrorism, it is terrorism!

FM
Kari posted:

Chief, it is not so much that Islam has no problem or Islam is the problem. It is that those who are associated with terrorism and beheadings in this day and age and who espouse civilization end and the clash of civilizations are from Muslim homes. That is the problem. I hear you about Islam not having a problem and indeed I quoted that writer for the NY Times who says that to subscribe to Islam is a problem is to deny the Quran.

 

We also know that without the Iraq upheaval in 2003 there would be no ISIS. Without the US troops in Saudi Arabia in 1990 to force Iraq out of Kuwait there would have been no Al Qaeda. Iraq is central to Al Qaeda's formation  - Osama was a US ally against the Russians in Afghanistan; and to ISIS - the ISIS army and Administrators are the Baathists who used to rule Iraq under Saddam. The Alawites in Syria were fighting Islamists since Assad's father Hafiz Al Assad, and now the Baathists there have joined up with Saddam's Baathists.

 

Why are Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds and other Muslim sects fighting their deadly war and bombings of mosques and other historic atefacts? Iis it religion or some tribal war?

 

Understanding and acknowledging the above would not necessarily answer the question as to whether Islam is an anti-peace religion, but it would go a long way towards making us not ask this question. That has been my arguments here against caribny, baseman and Itaname. It's a silly, semantic question. Of course we know Muslims have to banish these heretics from Islam. But there is no papacy in Islam. Declaring a Fatwah against ISIS does not work. I keep asking caribny et al - what should we Muslims do? Commit suicide? Go fight ISIS? I say nuke Raqqa and elsewhere and use the same reasoning as we did in Hiroshima - to save lives by killing some lives. That will stop people asking whether Islam is a bogus religion or a violent ideology.

It is Middle-east countries that seeks America's help to crush Middle-east tyrants. It is Muslim countries that depends on American Foreign aid to keep them alive.

I think the time is coming in America when there will be Americans and Visitors. The Visitors want to out do the Americans. 

Some people doan know their place and how good they have it. Damn Bullies.

The ingrates, never will look back with compassion for America, they have surrendered their sons to fight for freedom for others. Would these ungrateful have preferred to live under German rule or the Ottoman Empire. It is a great opportunity to live in the American centuries.

As for Islam. I have arrived at the conclusion Muslims doan understand the quran. The ME people knows its contents, it was written for them. The contention, is that God or Allah does not have children and He cannot be worshiped in any form of depiction, stone or otherwise. And since they marched out of their borders, the aim is to enforce such a creed.

The aim of Islam is to deny the personage of Jesus Christ. They are not willing to let the issue rest or slip by. They believe, it is their inherent right to destroy all images and force the infidels to worship Allah or be put to death. For many, it would be dismissed as that will never happen in Western Countries. If the Quran has the objective and the Bible states the perils that will come upon the Christians in the last days, then there is the possibility.  I read the anti-Christ right here on the Bulletin Board almost everyday. Imagine 1.6 Billion people convinced by the ME Immams that they should perform jihad-it happens right now anyway, on a limited scale. If it looks like ISIS have an edge, the attempts to put Christ to death will not be hindered. Destroying the West is like destroying Christianity. There will be no force to stop the armies of the ME.

Muslims worldwide makes the claim about Christ not being sent from God as the redeemer of the sins of mankind.

God is the word and word became flesh. Christians believe in that. Why would Mohammad leave instructions to every generation of Middle-Eastern people to persecute the people who believe such a creed.

In Guyana, I never experienced Guyanese Muslims wanting to harm Christians. But after the Saudies gave them money, they bombarded the entire country with loudspeakers broadcasting Arabic Chants.

Easily influenced by the Arabs. 

 

 

 

 

S
Kari posted:

I say nuke Raqqa and elsewhere and use the same reasoning as we did in Hiroshima - to save lives by killing some lives. That will stop people asking whether Islam is a bogus religion or a violent ideology.

That's what I say, and Redux cuss me out.

FM
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

Chief
Chief posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

Hey Chief, them Brooklyn settler class still hugging and kissing you and buying your kosher/halal falafel?

FM
Chief posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

I agree. Baseman is an idiot who hopes to be part of the fringes of the Tea Party but even them don't care for him to dumb them down. So his desperation is understandable.

FM
Chief posted:
Kari posted:

Chief, we have to listen to the claims in this topic, which can be summarized thus:

  • Islam has a problem - all the killings, terrorism and the change in lifestyle of non-Muslims by having to remove shoes, etc, at airports
  • Islam must be cleaned up
  • Only Muslims can clean up Islam

Basically the evidence being proffered is that there is an arrogance in Islam. It is THE only religion, etc.

In essence Christianity had its reformation at around the same age as Islam is now, Judaism also had a reformation. Islam needs one now - and it must be by Muslims. Is this incompatible with the faith that the Quran is immutable? Or is this the wrong question, and it should be whether the interpretation of the Quran that is the problem. Whether Islam is on the rise or not is not the real question.

Here is my take, Islam has no problem, PERIOD!!!

iF YOU SUBSCRIBE TO "ISLAM HAS A PROBLEM" THEN BASICALLY WE ARE SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH OUR QURAN AND OUR NOBLE AND HOLY PROPHET !

Bull crap!!

When the UN , The Pope and people of good sense was warning George Bush and Blair that is was wrong to attack and invade  sovereign  muslim nations, did they listen/ Hell no! So today people who have seen their lives disrupted and families got bombed out , what did they turn to, violence.

 

 Carib J came here and argued about when blacks are denied opportunities  both in Guyana and else where what was the result. Similarly muslims in that part of the world suffered so much because of the super powers. Russia invaded Afghanistan then it was the war between Irag  then American invasion.

I am on record to say that yes some people is trying to hijack the religion however other religions and group has their extremists as well.

The real Islam of love and compassion will survive and I ain't losing no sleep.

 

 

 

Chief the issue isn't the Quran. It is the fact that some Muslims LITERALLY interpret very colorful language that was in use in the Medieval and pre Medieval eras.  The Bible and the Torah are written in the SAME style, but it is an accepted fact that INTERPRETATION had to be modernized to deal with the realities of the contemporary world.

God didn't come down to write these books. These books were written by MAN, using ideologies and beliefs that were current then (slavery and the inferior status of women, being examples). 

If some people are hijacking the religion then it is in the interests of Muslims to STOP this.

Where are ISIS and Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and other Islamists groups getting their funding from? 

Who is indoctrinating troubling kids in Europe and North America with poison and masquerading this as religion?

Why are tribal beliefs like honor killings (in the Middle East, South west Asia) allowed to justified on the basis of religion?

Why is Saudi Arabia allowed to cloak the fact that it is a medieval dictatorship by using religious justifications?

Muslims need to be loudly vocal on this.

FM

And Chief, this isn't about Muslims playing Uncle Tom to white Christians.  Despite the screams of Trump, Le Pen, and other bigots, Islamists are a very, very marginal threat to non Muslims. 

It is MUSLIMS who have suffered most at their hands!

FM
Kari posted:

Chief, it is not so much that Islam has no problem or Islam is the problem. It is that those who are associated with terrorism and beheadings in this day and age and who espouse civilization end and the clash of civilizations are from Muslim homes. 

 

I keep asking caribny et al - what should we Muslims do? .

The problem goes beyond Muslim homes. In fact the jihadis are most effective at recruiting kids who come from "lapsed Muslim" homes, where religious values aren't communicated by the parents. Or from new converts, often those from "lapsed Christian/atheist" homes.

The question is then why do these people, who feel emptiness and a need for spiritual guidance, use Islam, and not other religions as they act out their lunacy?

I have offered several ideas.  NONE of them having a thing to do with ISIS. 

But for the presence of Islamists the world would see ISIS for what it is. Angry ex Baathist Sunni soldiers who are determined to grab power.

What Muslims need to figure out is how can they REMOVE the ability of charlatans to use religion as a tool to recruit and to justify their acts, which have NOTHING to do with religion.

The very fact that these fools set out to destroy evidence that Islam was once a fount of knowledge and science should reveal to all what their true motives are.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:

What Muslims need to figure out is how can they REMOVE the ability of charlatans to use religion as a tool to recruit and to justify their acts, which have NOTHING to do with religion.

 

Unfortunately Muslims don't own Islam and have no real way of affecting how anyone use Islam in their activities. In spite of Baseman's stupidness, there is no evidence that the Kingdom is funding any of these terrorist operations. Al-Qaida got their initial funding from Bin Laden which was legally acquired funds. ISIS/ISIL got theirs from robbing the lands they overran. Not saying that they have not received funding from individuals but controlling that is as difficult as any individual Muslim stopping another from using Islam to commit crimes.

FM

That's the question I've been asking - how do we Muslims own the blasphemous Al Qaeda, Taliban and now ISIS? If we own them we can destroy them. How do we own the religion of Islam? Is there an infrastructure where we are the owners of Islam and can banish these heretics from the religion of Islam?

 

How do we ask Muslims to defund Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS, if we do not fund them in the first place?

 

If the activities of  Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS are seen as an ideology and not Islam the religion then we can begin to sensible tackle the problem. So asking Muslims to do something is missing the point. Asking Muslims to do something means that we are colluding with this bunch. 

 

Kazaazz offered how they are funded - ISIS took assets when they over-ran the lands they currently possess aided by the loot when Rumsfeld famously said stuff happens in a democracy after he, Bush and Cheney invaded the wrong country and unleashed the terror we see today. Al Qaeda was funded largely by a former friend of the US - Osama bin Laden.

 

Now there is a legit beef about the Wahabbi sect that claims to practice Islam. The Wahabbis are centered mostly in Saudi Arabia - the keepers of the to most holy sites, Mecca and Medina. Saudi Arabia got its wealth through oil politics and which the US has been a very influential actor. So let's accuse the US Governments over the years for aiding the accumulation of Saudi wealth. the next step in the logic is top say that the Saudi government are the Wahabbis who fund these thugs. Is this so? If it were true then President Bush would have severed ties with the Saudis - oil or no oil.

 

Then we read where only the Muslims can stop this desecration of Islam - defund these heretics, banish them from the institution of Islam, etc. You see where I'm heading with this. We Muslims are so powerful to be endowed with these powers and we let ISIS roam freely. Oh, and by the way, non-Muslims cannot do anything at all they say. It's up to the Muslims (to borrow a Trump-ism) and no one else. The Muslims are guilty and every one else is innocent, and more everyone else is inconvenienced by having to take off their shoes at airports.

 

Look, it's an ideology - plain and simple. It is not Islam. It is an ideology that is propagated from people who come from Muslim countries of a certain ilk. It is an ideology rooted in customs, tribal adversaries and backwardness. Is Islam to be blamed? Is Islam the root of this terrorism? If that is the case then Islam is not a religion but a violent movement that lasted 16 centuries - longer than Nazis-ism, the Huns, the Romans. Boy that ideology is very powerful.

 

the caribny's and baseman's and Itanamie's and SiegNazi's of this world need to think for themselves, if they believe in religion and that Islam is one of the great legitimate religions of the good Lord. Stop echoing Trump and others who seek to cast Muslims and the religion of Islam in that darkness.

Kari
caribny posted:
C

Chief the issue isn't the Quran. It is the fact that some Muslims LITERALLY interpret very colorful language that was in use in the Medieval and pre Medieval eras.  The Bible and the Torah are written in the SAME style, but it is an accepted fact that INTERPRETATION had to be modernized to deal with the realities of the contemporary world.

God didn't come down to write these books. These books were written by MAN, using ideologies and beliefs that were current then (slavery and the inferior status of women, being examples). 

If some people are hijacking the religion then it is in the interests of Muslims to STOP this.

Where are ISIS and Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and other Islamists groups getting their funding from? 

Who is indoctrinating troubling kids in Europe and North America with poison and masquerading this as religion?

Why are tribal beliefs like honor killings (in the Middle East, South west Asia) allowed to justified on the basis of religion?

Why is Saudi Arabia allowed to cloak the fact that it is a medieval dictatorship by using religious justifications?

Muslims need to be loudly vocal on this.

i AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU WROTE CARIB.

Muslims are very  vocal but you never hear that on the main stream media.

You ever notice how the dailies will carry a front page crime report. If it is a black or hispanic  they are call animals , if the exact crime is committed by a white it is call just simple name , the accused.

 

The point I am making is all this noise about Muslims being violent and Islam is a bad religion is hogwash. You ask a very important question where is the funding for some of these terrorists organization coming from? In 90 % of the cases these very organizations were funded and started  by the west.

What is sad is that smart people who are running for higher office such as Trump is exploiting this issue.

Anyway Bro Merry Christmas.

 

Chief
ksazma posted:
Chief posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

I agree. Baseman is an idiot who hopes to be part of the fringes of the Tea Party but even them don't care for him to dumb them down. So his desperation is understandable.

Baseman cares little what you or Chief or others think.  It's of no consequence.  I am way ahead of you people.  I was onto the PNC since 2011, but fools follow the foolish/selfish leader.  I support many of the positions of Trump, not all and not always to the full extent, but I do support more than less.  Eg, I don't think all Muslims should be banned, but I support severe restrictions on people from certain countries who have no business reason to be here.

FM

baseman, nobody cares what you think?. You're not on to anything.You don't know Jack, baseman. We try to raise your level of intelligence here baseman. Be grateful for that. It's free education here.

Kari

Kari do you see me responding to that illiterate dunce Baseman.

If each one of us ignore him then he will be speaking to himslef.

I do not know where he get the idea that I  sell falafel.

tHAT MODERFOUCKER IS IA JACKASS,

Chief
Chief posted:

Kari do you see me responding to that illiterate dunce Baseman.

If each one of us ignore him then he will be speaking to himslef.

I do not know where he get the idea that I  sell falafel.

tHAT MODERFOUCKER IS IA JACKASS,

Now now ISIS sympathizer jackass Chief.  You can go to hell, where you and your wahabi jackasses belong!

Guess what, there will be no peace agreement with your ISIS heros as you suggest, they will be wiped out by the Western Christians and the Eastern Orthodox Christians!!

Now run sell your falafel!

FM
Kari posted:

baseman, nobody cares what you think?. You're not on to anything.You don't know Jack, baseman. We try to raise your level of intelligence here baseman. Be grateful for that. It's free education here.

Respect, for a man who got the best of his education on Google.  That's why I like Trump, he scares not what you clowns think!

FM

Wasn't it disclosed recently that Baseman was a phony when it came to education and position? So why would he talk down to Chief who has demonstrated successes in areas Baseman can only hope for.

FM
ksazma posted:

Wasn't it disclosed recently that Baseman was a phony when it came to education and position? So why would he talk down to Chief who has demonstrated successes in areas Baseman can only hope for.

Well clown, try again.  Baseman want nothing of Chief or you for that matter!!  You are nothing baseman aspire to!!

FM
baseman posted:
ksazma posted:

Wasn't it disclosed recently that Baseman was a phony when it came to education and position? So why would he talk down to Chief who has demonstrated successes in areas Baseman can only hope for.

Well clown, try again.  Baseman want nothing of Chief or you for that matter!!  You are nothing baseman aspire to!!

I agree. Your aspiration is to remain a bigoted jackass. Now that PPP can't pour you any more free soup, you are hoping that your bigotry brings you some soup from the fringes of the Republican Tea Party. Unfortunately for you, they don't care for you to further dumb them down. So you continue to wander into the wilderness as a man without a nation. Continue parroting other peoples' shit.

FM

I am a US and Guyana citizen with strong vested Swiss connections.  I admire the fact that the Swiss constitutionally banned Islamic structures by a landslide after the statues where blow up.  I hope Islamist are placed under more scrutiny here in the US to prevent them doing their evil deeds here.

I wish I can say these Islamist are fringe, but many have silent support in the larger community.  That couple in San Bernidino had their support base in their family and elements of the community, that's for sure.

FM
baseman posted:

I am a US and Guyana citizen with strong vested Swiss connections.  I admire the fact that the Swiss constitutionally banned Islamic structures by a landslide after the statues where blow up.  I hope Islamist are placed under more scrutiny here in the US to prevent them doing their evil deeds here.

I wish I can say these Islamist are fringe, but many have silent support in the larger community.  That couple in San Bernidino had their support base in their family and elements of the community, that's for sure.

You are nothing other than a phony. That was established here by people who personally know you. It was also uncontested by you. Charges that cannot be offset by any of you future pretentions.

FM
ksazma posted:
caribny posted:

What Muslims need to figure out is how can they REMOVE the ability of charlatans to use religion as a tool to recruit and to justify their acts, which have NOTHING to do with religion.

 

Unfortunately Muslims don't own Islam and have no real way of affecting how anyone use Islam in their activities. In spite of Baseman's stupidness, there is no evidence that the Kingdom is funding any of these terrorist operations. Al-Qaida got their initial funding from Bin Laden which was legally acquired funds. ISIS/ISIL got theirs from robbing the lands they overran. Not saying that they have not received funding from individuals but controlling that is as difficult as any individual Muslim stopping another from using Islam to commit crimes.

It is a known fact that certain elements in Saudi Arabia have been funding these terrorist groups, as part of their war against the Shiites.

Bin Laden was disowned by his own family, so had no independent resources to fund a thing.  ISIS now has its own economy, but didn't when it got started.  They were funded.

The worst thing for Islam is its dominance by the Wahhabi set.  Its primitive interpretation of the Quran has given space for lunatics to be even more radical.

If Muslims don't "own" Islam, they better figure out how to do so, as the world is tried of Islamists, and I would think that Muslims would be even more so, given that its Muslims who are the main target of these lunatics.

FM

Some questions for caribny:

  • What's the population of Saudi Arabia?
  • What's the percentage of Saudis are of the Wahabbi sect?
  • Is there such a thing as owners of a religion?
  • Who owns Christianity?

 

Kari
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
caribny posted:

What Muslims need to figure out is how can they REMOVE the ability of charlatans to use religion as a tool to recruit and to justify their acts, which have NOTHING to do with religion.

 

Unfortunately Muslims don't own Islam and have no real way of affecting how anyone use Islam in their activities. In spite of Baseman's stupidness, there is no evidence that the Kingdom is funding any of these terrorist operations. Al-Qaida got their initial funding from Bin Laden which was legally acquired funds. ISIS/ISIL got theirs from robbing the lands they overran. Not saying that they have not received funding from individuals but controlling that is as difficult as any individual Muslim stopping another from using Islam to commit crimes.

It is a known fact that certain elements in Saudi Arabia have been funding these terrorist groups, as part of their war against the Shiites.

Bin Laden was disowned by his own family, so had no independent resources to fund a thing.  ISIS now has its own economy, but didn't when it got started.  They were funded.

The worst thing for Islam is its dominance by the Wahhabi set.  Its primitive interpretation of the Quran has given space for lunatics to be even more radical.

If Muslims don't "own" Islam, they better figure out how to do so, as the world is tried of Islamists, and I would think that Muslims would be even more so, given that its Muslims who are the main target of these lunatics.

What known fact that certain elements in Saudi Arabia is funding these terrorists. Our US government has a policy of not dealing with states who are terrorists or who sponsors terrorism. Are you accusing the US government of acting in contravention to US policy? Secondly, Bin Laden reportedly inherited some 500 million from the family estate so what personal resource he didn't have? ISIS was formed with the resources and assets left by us when we withdrew from Iraq so who again funded them? I do agree with you on the trouble of Muslims around the world being influenced by Arabs. I do not like it either. Finally, Muslims will just have to live with not being able to own Islam because they just don't. While that may be a problem for non-Muslims (or maybe they are only pretending it is), they too will have to live with it.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Kari posted:

 

Then we read where only the Muslims can stop this desecration of Islam - defund these heretics, banish them from the institution of Islam, etc.

The fact that you put me within the same context of baseman is interesting. He screams that Islam is evil and ought to be crushed.

I am telling you that Islam has an image problem, in addition to a real problem in that it has become attractive to more nutcases than is currently the case with other religions.

Now while you wail that Muslims can do nothing, and imply that NON Muslims must fix the problem. Understand something.  Every bigot needs to find a scape goat to distract the increasingly impoverished white masses of Europe and North America.

As of now the bad image of Islam makes it very easy this group to become the whipped group. 

 

Israel has their own agenda, and are happy that Muslims are increasingly seen as monsters by many by many in the West. This fact has given them the upper hand in their own PR while they tie their "victimization" by Arabs to a European public who are increasingly panicked by what they see as hordes of Muslim savages descending on their lands. The Palestinian cause used to have widespread support in Europe, which enabled the Palestinians to mitigate the blind control that Israel has over the USA. Israel is quite happy that this European support for a free Palestine is diminishing.

The right wing bigots within the GOP will also sow similar panic among less educated whites, as they continue to oppress them with increasing automation, outsourcing, offshoring, and depressing real wages, and cutting back on social supports, inclusive of popular ones like Medicare and Social Security.

More moderate elements like the Democrats in the USA, and the slightly right or left of center parties in Europe, will look at the polls, and mouth nice PC things about Muslims, but will not want to too aggressively fight the anti Muslim bigotry, for fear of being seen as being "soft on terrorism". Even the Labor Party in the UK has engaged in its own demonization of British Muslims.

So feel free to wail that some one who suggests that Muslims should figure out a way to solve their problems should be connected to a bigot like Baseman, who screams that Islam is evil and that it should be singled out and stigmatized, and religious tests be used to exclude 1.6 billion people, 99.999999% of whom are as angry with the jihadis as the rest of us 5.5 billion non Muslims are.

FM
baseman posted:
Kari posted:

I say nuke Raqqa and elsewhere and use the same reasoning as we did in Hiroshima - to save lives by killing some lives. That will stop people asking whether Islam is a bogus religion or a violent ideology.

That's what I say, and Redux cuss me out.

What Kari refuses to understand is that after Raqqa is nuked the jihadis move on to some other target.   As far as most Westerners are concerned Arabs can kill each other if this is what they want. Just as they see no concern when Africans engage in similar slaughter.

But when people who claim to be operating on behalf of Islam start entering Westerns spaces and hurting them it becomes another story.

It isn't what is happening in the Middle East that can and will hurt Muslims living in Europe, and maybe even North America. Its what happens IN those countries, which will create a problem.

I don't hear Trump screaming that all Congolese should be banned from the USA, even as some of the worst brutality occurs in that tragic nation. He does scream that Muslims ought to be banned from entering the USA, and has seen his support INCREASE, after Paris and San Bernardino.  And of course as his support increases the media run like crack heads towards him, as if he is selling crack at a discount.

FM
baseman posted:
Chief posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

Hey Chief, them Brooklyn settler class still hugging and kissing you and buying your kosher/halal falafel?

Now that baseman is engaging in the same bigotry towards Muslims that he usually reserves for blacks, I wonder if the GNI Muslims will be more empathetic with the plight that Afro Guyanese suffered under the PPP.

FM
Chief posted:
 

The point I am making is all this noise about Muslims being violent and Islam is a bad religion is hogwash. You ask a very important question where is the funding for some of these terrorists organization coming from? In 90 % of the cases these very organizations were funded and started  by the west.

What is sad is that smart people who are running for higher office such as Trump is exploiting this issue.

Anyway Bro Merry Christmas.

 

You will need to prove that jihadis get funding from the West.  While the West can surely be blamed for creating the geopolitical environment for these groups to thrive, to claim that Westerners fund them is a paranoid stretch. You sound as silly as those Africans who blame AIDS on foreign aid workers.

FM
caribny posted:
baseman posted:
Chief posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

Hey Chief, them Brooklyn settler class still hugging and kissing you and buying your kosher/halal falafel?

Now that baseman is engaging in the same bigotry towards Muslims that he usually reserves for blacks, I wonder if the GNI Muslims will be more empathetic with the plight that Afro Guyanese suffered under the PPP.

Baseman is as bigoted towards blacks as he is towards Muslims. In regards to the plight of Afro Guyanese under the PPP, I have said many times that I don't lose sleep on what happens in Guyana.

FM
ksazma posted:
In regards to the plight of Afro Guyanese under the PPP, I have said many times that I don't lose sleep on what happens in Guyana.

And yet you expect non Muslims to lose sleep about the damage that Trump, Le Pen and others are doing to Muslims?

Not a good response.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
In regards to the plight of Afro Guyanese under the PPP, I have said many times that I don't lose sleep on what happens in Guyana.

And yet you expect non Muslims to lose sleep about the damage that Trump, Le Pen and others are doing to Muslims?

Not a good response.

I don't remember asking anyone to lose sleep over Trump, Le Pen or others' actions to Muslims. I will admit that the increasing violent actions of Muslims are troubling to me but I also know that the politicians here who are making a big deal are not completely honest about their feelings. It is after all election season and picking on Muslims is always a good bet for US Politicians. The elections will come and go. The Muslim 'concern' will go away for another year or two but definitely come back by the time the next general election comes back. So I am not losing sleep over the Muslim situation either. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ksazma posted:
baseman posted:

I am a US and Guyana citizen with strong vested Swiss connections.  I admire the fact that the Swiss constitutionally banned Islamic structures by a landslide after the statues where blow up.  I hope Islamist are placed under more scrutiny here in the US to prevent them doing their evil deeds here.

I wish I can say these Islamist are fringe, but many have silent support in the larger community.  That couple in San Bernidino had their support base in their family and elements of the community, that's for sure.

You are nothing other than a phony. That was established here by people who personally know you. It was also uncontested by you. Charges that cannot be offset by any of you future pretentions.

I have no time to prove anything to useless people or anyone on GNI.  These people are proven hypocrites, liars and mediocre grasshoppers.  Where baseman been, it's not yet on their horizons, that's why a lil Govt wuk with the PNC/AFC is a big up-lift for them.  I will probably consider this after my kids done with college, retire and with nothing better to do!  If you chose to swallow, enjoy as it goes down!

FM
ksazma posted:
caribny posted:
baseman posted:
Chief posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how so many people who claim to be educated don't know the difference between Islam and Muslim. Then you have Baseman who is so far off the fringe. I am surprised that he even think he makes sense. But then again, he is after all, Baseman.

Kaz,

It is a total waste of time to talk or respond to mad people.

Hey Chief, them Brooklyn settler class still hugging and kissing you and buying your kosher/halal falafel?

Now that baseman is engaging in the same bigotry towards Muslims that he usually reserves for blacks, I wonder if the GNI Muslims will be more empathetic with the plight that Afro Guyanese suffered under the PPP.

Baseman is as bigoted towards blacks as he is towards Muslims. In regards to the plight of Afro Guyanese under the PPP, I have said many times that I don't lose sleep on what happens in Guyana.

Baseman also "bigoted" towards Indian political cons!  How about that.  Baseman is an admirer of the Iranians for their accomplishments and the Asian Muslims for their tolerance and moderation.  Baseman also admires African leaders like Mandela, Toto, Kagami, those is Mozambique and Angola for their ability at nation building and reconciliation.

So, baseman is bigoted against Muslims and Blacks and love only Indians and Whites and Chinese!!  Now, you two jokers, run along!

FM
baseman posted:

I have no time to prove anything to useless people or anyone on GNI. 

Yet you have a lot of time to spend on GNI. You should still give yourself credit for being able to fool one person though. Yourself.

FM
caribny posted:
Kari posted:

 

Then we read where only the Muslims can stop this desecration of Islam - defund these heretics, banish them from the institution of Islam, etc.

The fact that you put me within the same context of baseman is interesting. He screams that Islam is evil and ought to be crushed.

I am telling you that Islam has an image problem, in addition to a real problem in that it has become attractive to more nutcases than is currently the case with other religions.

Now while you wail that Muslims can do nothing, and imply that NON Muslims must fix the problem. Understand something.  Every bigot needs to find a scape goat to distract the increasingly impoverished white masses of Europe and North America.

As of now the bad image of Islam makes it very easy this group to become the whipped group. 

 

Israel has their own agenda, and are happy that Muslims are increasingly seen as monsters by many by many in the West. This fact has given them the upper hand in their own PR while they tie their "victimization" by Arabs to a European public who are increasingly panicked by what they see as hordes of Muslim savages descending on their lands. The Palestinian cause used to have widespread support in Europe, which enabled the Palestinians to mitigate the blind control that Israel has over the USA. Israel is quite happy that this European support for a free Palestine is diminishing.

The right wing bigots within the GOP will also sow similar panic among less educated whites, as they continue to oppress them with increasing automation, outsourcing, offshoring, and depressing real wages, and cutting back on social supports, inclusive of popular ones like Medicare and Social Security.

More moderate elements like the Democrats in the USA, and the slightly right or left of center parties in Europe, will look at the polls, and mouth nice PC things about Muslims, but will not want to too aggressively fight the anti Muslim bigotry, for fear of being seen as being "soft on terrorism". Even the Labor Party in the UK has engaged in its own demonization of British Muslims.

So feel free to wail that some one who suggests that Muslims should figure out a way to solve their problems should be connected to a bigot like Baseman, who screams that Islam is evil and that it should be singled out and stigmatized, and religious tests be used to exclude 1.6 billion people, 99.999999% of whom are as angry with the jihadis as the rest of us 5.5 billion non Muslims are.

I am telling you that Islam has an image problem, in addition to a real problem in that it has become attractive to more nutcases than is currently the case with other religions.

caribny, saying that Islam has an image problem means 2 things: (i) a belief that terrorism has its roots in the religion of Islam; (ii) Islam is not a religion of God but an ideology of evil.

 

You try to live in the world of (i) above and say you disavow (ii). Well you can't have it both ways, because to say there is an image problem with Islam means to deny Islam is a religion of God.

 

Now while you wail that Muslims can do nothing, and imply that NON Muslims must fix the problem.

You see that word "imply"? Now that's your construct.

No one says non-Muslims must fix the ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban problem. No one says that Muslims must fix that problem. All one is saying is that the problem must be fixed. It is when you ordain that ONLY Muslims can fix that problem because they "own" Islam, then you come to that construct of a Muslim/non-Muslim divide over fixing that problem. Worse, it feeds into the notion that Islam is not a religion of God as it has inherent violent flaws. In other words you seek to negate Islam as a religion, yet you say I lump you with baseman. Now you see how much align you are with baseman. Interesting that one must begin a sentence with your handle and that of baseman's with lower case letters.  You are both of lower understanding of the human condition. He's a full-out bigiot and you have to defend such charges on your own.

 

Kari
baseman posted:

Baseman also "bigoted" towards Indian political cons!  How about that.  Baseman is an admirer of the Iranians for their accomplishments and the Asian Muslims for their tolerance and moderation.  Baseman also admires African leaders like Mandela, Toto [?], Kagami, those is Mozambique and Angola for their ability at nation building and reconciliation.

Hindutva bushman, correct me if i am wrong, but wuz not u braying the following a couple days ago about Kenyan muslims:

"They likely do not follow Wahabi terrorist Islam!  Just like many Muslims in Thailand, Malaysia who have retained some Hindu and Budhist [sic] traditions in appreciation to their pre-conversion days."

putting aside the fact that Kenyan muslims likely are not situated to "retain" either Buddhist or Hindu traditions, and neither do their Somali "wahabi" antagonists; and bearing in mind that Islam is the youngest major religion on the planet, EVERY Arab muslim should possess a leavening "pre-conversion" tradition . . . in the spirit of your barefoot analysis, of course

rite?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ksazma posted:
 

I don't remember asking anyone to lose sleep over Trump, Le Pen or others' actions to Muslims. I will admit that the increasing violent actions of Muslims are troubling to me but I also know that the politicians here who are making a big deal are not completely honest about their feelings. It is after all election season and picking on Muslims is always a good bet for US Politicians. The elections will come and go. The Muslim 'concern' will go away for another year or two but definitely come back by the time the next general election comes back. So I am not losing sleep over the Muslim situation either. 

So continue not to lose sleep. Continue to have the GOP scream that Muslims are evil. 

Watch as Democrats make some little PC squeaks in response, but don't do too much, out of fear that the polls show that Americans are quaking because they are bombarded daily by the media that terrorism is the biggest issue.

Isn't my problem, so  really don't care. I have no reason to lose sleep.  But as the populace becomes increasingly loathe to be fair to ordinary Muslims I am not the one who will have to deal with the consequences of this.

The USA is always in an election season. After 2016 it will be the 2018 mid terms.

FM
Kari posted:
 

I am telling you that Islam has an image problem, in addition to a real problem in that it has become attractive to more nutcases than is currently the case with other religions.

caribny, saying that Islam has an image problem means 2 things: (i) a belief that terrorism has its roots in the religion of Islam; (ii) Islam is not a religion of God but an ideology of evil.

 

You try to live in the world of (i) above and say you disavow (ii). Well you can't have it both ways, because to say there is an image problem with Islam means to deny Islam is a religion of God.

 

Now while you wail that Muslims can do nothing, and imply that NON Muslims must fix the problem.

You see that word "imply"? Now that's your construct.

No one says non-Muslims must fix the ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban problem. No one says that Muslims must fix that problem. All one is saying is that the problem must be fixed. It is when you ordain that ONLY Muslims can fix that problem because they "own" Islam, then you come to that construct of a Muslim/non-Muslim divide over fixing that problem. Worse, it feeds into the notion that Islam is not a religion of God as it has inherent violent flaws. In other words you seek to negate Islam as a religion, yet you say I lump you with baseman. Now you see how much align you are with baseman. Interesting that one must begin a sentence with your handle and that of baseman's with lower case letters.  You are both of lower understanding of the human condition. He's a full-out bigiot and you have to defend such charges on your own.

 

I wonder why you fixate in ISIS. When the Federal building in Oklahoma was bombed in 1995 America had already decided that it was "Muslims" until it was discovered that domestic white supremacist terrorists were involved. So Islam already didn't have the best image.

Get rid of ISIS and some other group replaces them. Joe Blow doesn't care about the details.  All they care is that for some reasons most of the time bombs blow up in Europe, and quite often when bombs blow in the USA it is Muslims.

So feel free to think that Muslims don't have to figure out a solution to this problem, when indeed they suffer MORE from this than non Muslims.

As a matter of a fact, the more that bigots fixate on Muslims, the less they do on blacks, so it may even be in my interest for the image of Islam to remain what it is, so they get off my back. I do know that after 9/11 racism towards blacks almost disappeared for a bit.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
 

I don't remember asking anyone to lose sleep over Trump, Le Pen or others' actions to Muslims. I will admit that the increasing violent actions of Muslims are troubling to me but I also know that the politicians here who are making a big deal are not completely honest about their feelings. It is after all election season and picking on Muslims is always a good bet for US Politicians. The elections will come and go. The Muslim 'concern' will go away for another year or two but definitely come back by the time the next general election comes back. So I am not losing sleep over the Muslim situation either. 

So continue not to lose sleep. Continue to have the GOP scream that Muslims are evil. 

Watch as Democrats make some little PC squeaks in response, but don't do too much, out of fear that the polls show that Americans are quaking because they are bombarded daily by the media that terrorism is the biggest issue.

Isn't my problem, so  really don't care. I have no reason to lose sleep.  But as the populace becomes increasingly loathe to be fair to ordinary Muslims I am not the one who will have to deal with the consequences of this.

The USA is always in an election season. After 2016 it will be the 2018 mid terms.

Me losing sleep doesn't change anything so why should I? Some Muslims will continue to be violent and some people bigoted against Muslims will continue to be bigoted against Muslims regardless.

FM
caribny posted: 

I wonder why you fixate in ISIS. When the Federal building in Oklahoma was bombed in 1995 America had already decided that it was "Muslims" until it was discovered that domestic white supremacist terrorists were involved. So Islam already didn't have the best image.

 

 

Exactly my point in my last post. Bigots existed before 9/11. The vast majority of good law abiding Muslims don't benefit from their actions from these bigots. Instead, those Muslims are being constantly asked to carry the cross which they have no business carrying. When a person is convicted of murder, their entire family isn't asked to carry that cross. Guyanese Muslims back in the 70s were called scamps although they were very charitable law abiding citizens. The contempt was so great that the bigots used to say, "the longer the beard, the bigger the scamp". This is while one would be hard pressed to come up with more than a handful of Muslims who had committed crimes in Guyana. So this new asking Muslims to carry the cross is just another attempt by bigots to victimize Muslims. Muslims need not lose sleep trying to change bigots' opinions because nothing short of having Gentle Jesus telling bigots to change their bigoted ways will matter.

FM

Kaz, 

It is more to that and yes one have to loose sleep when day i and ay out your children are subject to harassment. Imagine your 5 year old with alll the sparkle in his eyes in first grade is being told that  he should not be able to run for President.

Do you know the damage that is being done to people who wear the head scarf.

Speaking about that let me go call this sister and tell her to come to work from next Monday.

Chief
ksazma posted:
 

Exactly my point in my last post. Bigots existed before 9/11. The vast majority of good law abiding Muslims don't benefit from their actions from these bigots. Instead, those Muslims are being constantly asked to carry the cross which they have no business carrying.

It is not a matter of being forced to carry a cross.  Its a matter of a fact that the image of a religion is being distorted, and also that the vast majority of people harmed by these people are other Muslims.

Seriously, non Muslims don't really suffer from Islamists, despite the screams of Trump and company.  

And in fact Israel and the extreme right wing benefit tremendously every time a nutter throws a bomb and shoots down people, screaming "Allah" as he does it.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ksazma posted:
 

Me losing sleep doesn't change anything so why should I? Some Muslims will continue to be violent and some people bigoted against Muslims will continue to be bigoted against Muslims regardless.

And a religious test will be used, with Muslims holding the dirty and of the stick.  I suggest that a trip to certain parts of Europe, seeing the plight of ordinary Muslims, will be very enlightening for you.

FM
Chief posted:

Kaz, 

. Imagine your 5 year old with alll the sparkle in his eyes in first grade is being told that  he should not be able to run for President.

 

Lets get even more irrelevant with that. 

Imagine that your 5 year old comes home from school crying that the other kids called him a terrorist, and that the teachers did nothing about it. 

Then on his way home, if dressed in what some consider Muslim attire, the school bus driver refuses to allow him on board.

FM
Chief posted:

Kaz, 

It is more to that and yes one have to loose sleep when day i and ay out your children are subject to harassment. Imagine your 5 year old with alll the sparkle in his eyes in first grade is being told that  he should not be able to run for President.

Do you know the damage that is being done to people who wear the head scarf.

Speaking about that let me go call this sister and tell her to come to work from next Monday.

I hear you but you cannot change the opinion of these bigots. People who are not bigots aren't shortchanging Muslims. The hosts on the ABC DC show that my nephew was on were very accommodating to them and even aided them in articulating their sentiments. Public schools aren't picking on kids. In fact, there was a situation recently where some parents were upset that their grade kids were asked to write the Kalimah in Arabic as part of their calligraphy class. So losing sleep doesn't solve anything. And no matter how much you talk about the violence or even condemn it, it will not be enough to the bigots.

FM
caribny posted:
Chief posted:

Kaz, 

. Imagine your 5 year old with alll the sparkle in his eyes in first grade is being told that  he should not be able to run for President.

 

Lets get even more irrelevant with that. 

Imagine that your 5 year old comes home from school crying that the other kids called him a terrorist, and that the teachers did nothing about it. 

Then on his way home, if dressed in what some consider Muslim attire, the school bus driver refuses to allow him on board.

These things don't generally happen in public schools in America. There are anti bullying laws in public schools and school bus drivers are also expected to be anti-discriminatory. Sure you can run into bigots privately but they are in the minority.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
 

Me losing sleep doesn't change anything so why should I? Some Muslims will continue to be violent and some people bigoted against Muslims will continue to be bigoted against Muslims regardless.

And a religious test will be used, with Muslims holding the dirty and of the stick.  I suggest that a trip to certain parts of Europe, seeing the plight of ordinary Muslims, will be very enlightening for you.

I don't care to lose sleep about everything happening around the world. When I go to the Heat games, I pass many homeless people just outside the house where millionaires play. If I lose over every issue I see, I will end up suffering from insomnia.

FM
Chief posted:

I am speaking about the kid hearing about Ben Carson.

Nobody is taking Ben Carson seriously. Notice how his appeal started dropping after he disclosed his Islamophobia?

FM
ksazma posted:
Chief posted:

I am speaking about the kid hearing about Ben Carson.

Nobody is taking Ben Carson seriously. Notice how his appeal started dropping after he disclosed his Islamophobia?

Notice that Trump, and Cruz, two Islamophobes, saw their appeal increase, more than did the apparently less Rubio.

FM
ksazma posted:
caribny posted:
Chief posted:

Kaz, 

. Imagine your 5 year old with alll the sparkle in his eyes in first grade is being told that  he should not be able to run for President.

 

Lets get even more irrelevant with that. 

Imagine that your 5 year old comes home from school crying that the other kids called him a terrorist, and that the teachers did nothing about it. 

Then on his way home, if dressed in what some consider Muslim attire, the school bus driver refuses to allow him on board.

These things don't generally happen in public schools in America. There are anti bullying laws in public schools and school bus drivers are also expected to be anti-discriminatory. Sure you can run into bigots privately but they are in the minority.

Based in reports from Muslims, it happens often enough.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
caribny posted:
Chief posted:

Kaz, 

. Imagine your 5 year old with alll the sparkle in his eyes in first grade is being told that  he should not be able to run for President.

 

Lets get even more irrelevant with that. 

Imagine that your 5 year old comes home from school crying that the other kids called him a terrorist, and that the teachers did nothing about it. 

Then on his way home, if dressed in what some consider Muslim attire, the school bus driver refuses to allow him on board.

These things don't generally happen in public schools in America. There are anti bullying laws in public schools and school bus drivers are also expected to be anti-discriminatory. Sure you can run into bigots privately but they are in the minority.

Based in reports from Muslims, it happens often enough.

Muslim groups have also not been completely honest and balanced regarding many matters. They too have been very selective in what they respond to.

FM
ksazma posted:

Trump and Cruz' appeal is coming from the fringes of the Republican Party. That doesn't work on the larger scale.

Add up Trump, Cruz, and Carson and polls indicate that this is the vast majority of the GOP.  Moderates like Kasich are struggling to get 5% support.

60% of the GOP base support bigots, and (with the possible exception of Carson) they do precisely because they are bigots.  This represents 25-30% of the US population.

FM
ksazma posted:
caribny posted:
 

Based in reports from Muslims, it happens often enough.

Muslim groups have also not been completely honest and balanced regarding many matters. They too have been very selective in what they respond to.

US Muslims, unlike their Euro counterparts, play a very low profile.  So if they are reporting increased instances of bigotry, then I believe them. 

FM

caribny, let me explain. When you talk of bigotry against Muslims in the US and elsewhere ISIS does a dance. You know why because they say you did their dirty work for them. ISIS wants there to be two worlds - a "Muslim" world and a non-Muslim world. Here's where you were suckered into doing their job for them. ISIS knows they can't defeat a conventional army with tanks, planes, etc. So what they want is for Muslims to join their "Muslim" world. Note that their "Muslim" world is not the same as THE Muslim world. The Quran is the Quran and practices by evil people has nopthing to do with inspiration from the Quran. An evil person can draw inspiration from the Bible too or the Torah.

 

ISIS can only triumph if they get a large following. They got that in the Sunni lands in disaffected Shiite Iraq and falling-t0-pieces Syria. They want to go global now and enlist people like you who claim there is a problem with Islam and only Muslims can fix it. When Paris or San Bernadine happen they never planned or funded these Do-It-Yourself (DIY) terror attacks; but they will lay claim to it. They want you to say that only people who shout  Allah-O-Akbar are doing the terror. So you make the story that people don't go around causing terror while shouting JEsus Christ, then therefore there must be something wrong with Islam. then you delve into the writings in the Quran and say see ISIS's inspiration is in the Quran.

 

So caribny, ISIS will applaud you and Trump for doing its work of dividing the owtld in preparation for some mystical end-of-times great war of a clash of civilization.

Kari
Kari posted:

caribny, let me explain. When you talk of bigotry against Muslims in the US and elsewhere ISIS does a dance. You know why because they say you did their dirty work for them. ISIS wants there to be two worlds - a "Muslim" world and a non-Muslim world. Here's where you were suckered into doing their job for them. ISIS knows they can't defeat a conventional army with tanks, planes, etc. So what they want is for Muslims to join their "Muslim" world. Note that their "Muslim" world is not the same as THE Muslim world. The Quran is the Quran and practices by evil people has nopthing to do with inspiration from the Quran. An evil person can draw inspiration from the Bible too or the Torah.

 

ISIS can only triumph if they get a large following. They got that in the Sunni lands in disaffected Shiite Iraq and falling-t0-pieces Syria. They want to go global now and enlist people like you who claim there is a problem with Islam and only Muslims can fix it. When Paris or San Bernadine happen they never planned or funded these Do-It-Yourself (DIY) terror attacks; but they will lay claim to it. They want you to say that only people who shout  Allah-O-Akbar are doing the terror. So you make the story that people don't go around causing terror while shouting JEsus Christ, then therefore there must be something wrong with Islam. then you delve into the writings in the Quran and say see ISIS's inspiration is in the Quran.

 

So caribny, ISIS will applaud you and Trump for doing its work of dividing the owtld in preparation for some mystical end-of-times great war of a clash of civilization.

Kari it is YOUR refusal to think that Muslims have an obligation to rid their religion of those who attempt to destroy it (Islamists and not just ISIS) that is the biggest threat to Muslims.

Kari no American with half a brain thinks that ISIS will invade the USA, or be a threat to them.  What they do fear are increasing numbers of lone wolves who represent a group which they consider to be alien to them.

They do not regard the lost white boys who shoot up schools as doing so for reasons other than pure insanity.

They however fear that those people who happen to be Muslim, who engage in the same behavior do so for ideological reasons, backed by a warped interpretation of the Quran.

It then becomes in the interest of Muslims to aggressively attack this problem.  Not only do they risk increasingly soft bigotry (stares and profiling) and occasional hard bigotry (attacks on Muslims or their property) in North America and even more so in Europe.  But the fact remains is that millions of Muslims are being displaced, with hundreds of thousands even being killed by this Islamist fanatics.

Exactly what are Muslims in the USA doing to help Muslim refugees who are being kept out of the USA, even as some welcome the Christian refugees fleeing Islamists? Don't you care about the religious test that is possibly being used to determine who can, and who cannot enter the USA?

Kari I suggest to you that you do NOT want non Muslims to fix this problem!

FM

Plus Kari there is already a divide between the Sunni and the Shiite worlds.  This is why we have this problem.  Sunni fanatics funding mad people to battle against the Shiites!   And the Shiites doing likewise.

You are a true idiot if you think that the problem is only a few mad men in the desert.

FACT.  There is no other religion which suffers the scourge of lunatics claiming to act on its behalf as we see with Islam.  WHY?

Mali, Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia,  Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Australia, almost every European nation, as well as the USA and even Canada.

We just do not see legions of Christian, Buddhist or Hindu fanatics attempting to spread mayhem to the same degree.  WHY is Islam cursed with this behavior?  ONLY Muslims can answer this question, and RESCUE their religion from the hands of mad men who want to DESTROY it!

Israel is as happy as ever as their cause now enjoys the support in France that it NEVER did, due to attacks by the Islamists this year!  Who suffers?  The Muslims who exist under their domain!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
redux posted:
baseman posted:

Baseman also "bigoted" towards Indian political cons!  How about that.  Baseman is an admirer of the Iranians for their accomplishments and the Asian Muslims for their tolerance and moderation.  Baseman also admires African leaders like Mandela, Toto [?], Kagami, those is Mozambique and Angola for their ability at nation building and reconciliation.

Hindutva bushman, correct me if i am wrong, but wuz not u braying the following a couple days ago about Kenyan muslims:

"They likely do not follow Wahabi terrorist Islam!  Just like many Muslims in Thailand, Malaysia who have retained some Hindu and Budhist [sic] traditions in appreciation to their pre-conversion days."

putting aside the fact that Kenyan muslims likely are not situated to "retain" either Buddhist or Hindu traditions, and neither do their Somali "wahabi" antagonists; and bearing in mind that Islam is the youngest major religion on the planet, EVERY Arab muslim should possess a leavening "pre-conversion" tradition . . . in the spirit of your barefoot analysis, of course

rite?

Now clown, where did i mention African Muslims and Hindu or Buddhist traditions.  Now every religion adapts and retains and some locals traditions.  That is why there are differences in all major religions based on where and who the people are, even Judaism has variants.

Of course the slaughter house Wahabis want their version of Islam only and not only for Muslims, but everyone else.

FM
Kari posted:

caribny, let me explain. When you talk of bigotry against Muslims in the US and elsewhere ISIS does a dance. You know why because they say you did their dirty work for them. ISIS wants there to be two worlds - a "Muslim" world and a non-Muslim world. Here's where you were suckered into doing their job for them. ISIS knows they can't defeat a conventional army with tanks, planes, etc. So what they want is for Muslims to join their "Muslim" world. Note that their "Muslim" world is not the same as THE Muslim world. The Quran is the Quran and practices by evil people has nopthing to do with inspiration from the Quran. An evil person can draw inspiration from the Bible too or the Torah.

 

ISIS can only triumph if they get a large following. They got that in the Sunni lands in disaffected Shiite Iraq and falling-t0-pieces Syria. They want to go global now and enlist people like you who claim there is a problem with Islam and only Muslims can fix it. When Paris or San Bernadine happen they never planned or funded these Do-It-Yourself (DIY) terror attacks; but they will lay claim to it. They want you to say that only people who shout  Allah-O-Akbar are doing the terror. So you make the story that people don't go around causing terror while shouting JEsus Christ, then therefore there must be something wrong with Islam. then you delve into the writings in the Quran and say see ISIS's inspiration is in the Quran.

 

So caribny, ISIS will applaud you and Trump for doing its work of dividing the owtld in preparation for some mystical end-of-times great war of a clash of civilization.

Bunch of bull.

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

FM
baseman posted:

 

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

The only thing that is certain on this board is that you are a lunatic. If you know so well that people here are supporting ISIS, then it is your responsibility to report them. Either you do that or acknowledge that you are an idiot. So put up or shut up.

FM
ksazma posted:
baseman posted:

 

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

The only thing that is certain on this board is that you are a lunatic. If you know so well that people here are supporting ISIS, then it is your responsibility to report them. Either you do that or acknowledge that you are an idiot. So put up or shut up.

Both baseman and Kari are hysterical when they claim that people support ISIS.

NONE of the Muslims who post here support ISIS.

Aside from baseman, NONE of the posters here claim that Islam is evil.  They claim a PR problem, and the presence of lunatics who misinterpret the Quran, and thereby set out to destroy Islam. 

 

Given that the lunatics, and even the Wahhabi sect are a small part of Islam, and Wahhabi support is POLITICAL and not religious in its motives, it is clear that its not the entirety of Islam which is troubled. It is Saudi Arabia fighting with Iran, using proxies in their battle.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
baseman posted:

 

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

The only thing that is certain on this board is that you are a lunatic. If you know so well that people here are supporting ISIS, then it is your responsibility to report them. Either you do that or acknowledge that you are an idiot. So put up or shut up.

Both baseman and Kari are hysterical when they claim that people support ISIS.

NONE of the Muslims who post here support ISIS.

Aside from baseman, NONE of the posters here claim that Islam is evil.  They claim a PR problem, and the presence of lunatics who misinterpret the Quran, and thereby set out to destroy Islam. 

 

Given that the lunatics, and even the Wahhabi sect are a small part of Islam, and Wahhabi support is POLITICAL and not religious in its motives, it is clear that its not the entirety of Islam which is troubled. It is Saudi Arabia fighting with Iran, using proxies in their battle.

Banna, you are such a liar and a clown.  Wahabism is political and not religious?  What a donkey.  Why these clowns slaughter any and everyone not subscribing to their interpretation of the Quran.  What it the Quran?  Why do they destroy anything considered non-Islamic?  That;s some political stretch.

The Wahabi sect are led by Saudi, Qatar, etc and they are not a small sect, they are well funded and, as such, have reach.  Most of the bad image and the evils perpetrated under the name Islam stems from this sect.

You are not observant enough to pick to the glee in certain postings after Paris (for example) calling for "time for peace" with ISIS, etc.  Steven King is pissed off because this was the attitude he was greeted by many Muslims he knew after 9/11.  All the dancing in the streets in Hoboken, Jersey City, etc.  But then again, you are who you are, and as long as some of these people cuss the PPP and "co0lies", then anything goes.

Finally, where did baseman ever said Islam is evil.  I always said Islam needs to new face, not that of Saudi and Wahabism.  That image is there because of vast wealth and Mecca being in Saudi.  You never hear me criticize Turkey, Asian Islam, Iran, etc.  Ask Stormborn what he thinks of Saudi Islam.  I know you see eye-to-eye with him on Guyana politics!

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
baseman posted:

 

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

The only thing that is certain on this board is that you are a lunatic. If you know so well that people here are supporting ISIS, then it is your responsibility to report them. Either you do that or acknowledge that you are an idiot. So put up or shut up.

Both baseman and Kari are hysterical when they claim that people support ISIS.

NONE of the Muslims who post here support ISIS.

Aside from baseman, NONE of the posters here claim that Islam is evil.  They claim a PR problem, and the presence of lunatics who misinterpret the Quran, and thereby set out to destroy Islam. 

 

Given that the lunatics, and even the Wahhabi sect are a small part of Islam, andWahhabi support is POLITICAL and not religious in its motives, it is clear that its not the entirety of Islam which is troubled. It is Saudi Arabia fighting with Iran, using proxies in their battle.

Both baseman and Kari are hysterical when they claim that people support ISIS.

No cribman only you and Donald Trump support ISIS.

Wahhabi support is POLITICAL and not religious in its motives

I see you're now acknowledging what I've said all along - ISIS has nothing to do with Islam and is an IDEOLOGY.

Kari
baseman posted:
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
baseman posted:

 

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

The only thing that is certain on this board is that you are a lunatic. If you know so well that people here are supporting ISIS, then it is your responsibility to report them. Either you do that or acknowledge that you are an idiot. So put up or shut up.

Both baseman and Kari are hysterical when they claim that people support ISIS.

NONE of the Muslims who post here support ISIS.

Aside from baseman, NONE of the posters here claim that Islam is evil.  They claim a PR problem, and the presence of lunatics who misinterpret the Quran, and thereby set out to destroy Islam. 

 

Given that the lunatics, and even the Wahhabi sect are a small part of Islam, and Wahhabi support is POLITICAL and not religious in its motives, it is clear that its not the entirety of Islam which is troubled. It is Saudi Arabia fighting with Iran, using proxies in their battle.

Banna, you are such a liar and a clown.  Wahabism is political and not religious?  What a donkey.  Why these clowns slaughter any and everyone not subscribing to their interpretation of the Quran.  What it the Quran?  Why do they destroy anything considered non-Islamic?  That;s some political stretch.

The Wahabi sect are led by Saudi, Qatar, etc and they are not a small sect, they are well funded and, as such, have reach.  Most of the bad image and the evils perpetrated under the name Islam stems from this sect.

You are not observant enough to pick to the glee in certain postings after Paris (for example) calling for "time for peace" with ISIS, etc.  Steven King is pissed off because this was the attitude he was greeted by many Muslims he knew after 9/11.  All the dancing in the streets in Hoboken, Jersey City, etc.  But then again, you are who you are, and as long as some of these people cuss the PPP and "co0lies", then anything goes.

Finally, where did baseman ever said Islam is evil.  I always said Islam needs to new face, not that of Saudi and Wahabism.  That image is there because of vast wealth and Mecca being in Saudi.  You never hear me criticize Turkey, Asian Islam, Iran, etc.  Ask Stormborn what he thinks of Saudi Islam.  I know you see eye-to-eye with him on Guyana politics!

Banna, you are such a liar and a clown.  Wahabism is political and not religious?  What a donkey.  Why these clowns slaughter any and everyone not subscribing to their interpretation of the Quran.  What it the Quran?  Why do they destroy anything considered non-Islamic?  That;s some political stretch.

 

Now basement dweller has joined the Donald and cribman in his support of ISIS.

Kari
Kari posted:
baseman posted:
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
baseman posted:

 

Something is very wrong with Islam today when people here and other places find sympathy and offer overt and covert support for a group like ISIS who douses "infidels" in sulfuric acid, chops the head of Christian fathers then places his head in the laps of his crying daughters and force them to spit on it, etc etc.  Al Qaeda was cruel, but ISIS takes the prize.  And to find people here [on this board] saying, time for peace.  Man, you can make whatever excuse you want, now Trump is the latest "recruiter" excuse.  Who you think you fooling?  ISIS had it's hordes of terrorist long before Trump ever uttered a word on the matter.

The issues of Islam and its image is for Muslims to fix, no one else.

The only thing that is certain on this board is that you are a lunatic. If you know so well that people here are supporting ISIS, then it is your responsibility to report them. Either you do that or acknowledge that you are an idiot. So put up or shut up.

Both baseman and Kari are hysterical when they claim that people support ISIS.

NONE of the Muslims who post here support ISIS.

Aside from baseman, NONE of the posters here claim that Islam is evil.  They claim a PR problem, and the presence of lunatics who misinterpret the Quran, and thereby set out to destroy Islam. 

 

Given that the lunatics, and even the Wahhabi sect are a small part of Islam, and Wahhabi support is POLITICAL and not religious in its motives, it is clear that its not the entirety of Islam which is troubled. It is Saudi Arabia fighting with Iran, using proxies in their battle.

Banna, you are such a liar and a clown.  Wahabism is political and not religious?  What a donkey.  Why these clowns slaughter any and everyone not subscribing to their interpretation of the Quran.  What it the Quran?  Why do they destroy anything considered non-Islamic?  That;s some political stretch.

The Wahabi sect are led by Saudi, Qatar, etc and they are not a small sect, they are well funded and, as such, have reach.  Most of the bad image and the evils perpetrated under the name Islam stems from this sect.

You are not observant enough to pick to the glee in certain postings after Paris (for example) calling for "time for peace" with ISIS, etc.  Steven King is pissed off because this was the attitude he was greeted by many Muslims he knew after 9/11.  All the dancing in the streets in Hoboken, Jersey City, etc.  But then again, you are who you are, and as long as some of these people cuss the PPP and "co0lies", then anything goes.

Finally, where did baseman ever said Islam is evil.  I always said Islam needs to new face, not that of Saudi and Wahabism.  That image is there because of vast wealth and Mecca being in Saudi.  You never hear me criticize Turkey, Asian Islam, Iran, etc.  Ask Stormborn what he thinks of Saudi Islam.  I know you see eye-to-eye with him on Guyana politics!

Banna, you are such a liar and a clown.  Wahabism is political and not religious?  What a donkey.  Why these clowns slaughter any and everyone not subscribing to their interpretation of the Quran.  What it the Quran?  Why do they destroy anything considered non-Islamic?  That;s some political stretch.

 

Now basement dweller has joined the Donald and cribman in his support of ISIS.

Bai, me done with alyuh for 2015.  Soon heading out to Toronto for Old Year's party.

FM
Kari posted:
baseman posted:

Bai, me done with alyuh for 2015.  Soon heading out to Toronto for Old Year's party.

Wheh de party deh in Toronto? I'm heading to JFK in 5 minutes to Toronto.

Somewhere near Scarborough.  Have a great time and all the best form 2016.

FM
seignet posted:
ball posted:

Siggy what gospel and wisdom that an atheist have and promotes?   

That there is no god. And dem is just an accident of nature. When dem die, there is no life after dat. If yuh doan accept that by some, dey consider that to be stupid. Suh dey agrue like it is a gospel.

Dem doan believe in god so how them got gospel, if them argue like gospel tehn dem is godly. And how yo is know there is life after yo dead

are you dead now and here as the after life?  

ball

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