After Granger careful deliberation for the GECOM chairman, he emerged with old man Patterson.

ksazma posted:

After Granger careful deliberation for the GECOM chairman, he emerged with old man Patterson.

HEHEHE  Dat is greatness for the FILTH HEADS.

Joe Singh who did the job before and is a decorated Veteran with energy and intelligence is not fit and proper. These people will believe anything. I am surprise they have not lost their shirts as yet.

Or as my neighba would tell dem " when Al Yuh STUPID Al Yuh done stupid"

Bad decision and move by President Granger.

Chief posted:

Bad decision and move by President Granger.

WOw!! Chief is objective. Hope the FILTH HEADS see the light also.  Thank you Chiefster.  Talk to them FHS

The Editorial should not be taken lightly,that country reeks with political corruption,it's a shame 50 + yrs after Independence,it's same old ...same old.

Mars posted:

Political hypocrisy of the highest order

By admin -

 

October 24, 2017

 

  

THESE ARE interesting times; but very revealing for the hypocrisy, political opportunism, and unbridled deceit now being aired publicly, following President Granger’s appointment of the Chairman for the Guyana Elections Commission(GECOM).

First, it must be clearly emphasised that the Chairmanship of GECOM is crucial in the preparation and staging of Local Government and National Elections that are free and fair and which must be able to withstand scrutiny. Therefore, the person to be elected has to satisfy criteria that synchronises with elections that are expected to be transparent.
It is against this background, we conclude, that the President has acted in his deliberate judgement, selecting a retired High Court Judge who embodies the quality of impartiality, integrity, honesty, faithfulness and diligence, apart from being “qualified to exercise unlimited jurisdiction in civil matters.”

Notwithstanding the fact that the Leader of the Opposition is an integral part of the selection process, it should be borne in mind that there is a constitutional responsibility that rests with the president in ensuring that the process proceeds as constitutionally required. And this begins with the submission of a list of nominees.
It is the right of the President to carefully scrutinize and consider the names of nominees. Therefore, given those which were submitted especially in the first and second lists, no president who understands and takes his constitutional duties seriously, would have arrived at a decision, other than what was made – rejection of the list and names.
In essence, those lists were politically loaded, provocative in every respect, designed not to give the president much space for consideration. This is a fact that he had emphasised.
Those lists were filled with persons who were known financiers, sympathisers, and campaigners for a political party – the People’s Progressive Party/Civic (PPP/C). This was totally dishonest and intended to deceive the nation. In the main, it was disrespectful to the President to have the Leader of the Opposition submit such lists, a fact of which Bharat Jagdeo had been well aware. Why then, would he have expected President Granger to legitimise such a deceit?

What is being deliberately misrepresented is that Article 182(01) of the Constitution “empowers the President to act in his own deliberate judgement’’. In fact, the learned Chief Justice Roxanne George in the Marcel Gaskin case, spells out the fact that, “The submission of the list does not mean that the President is obliged to accept the lists or the persons named in it. The judgement goes on to state that if there is deficiency in the list, “either in totality or in the names that have been included”, he can deem the entire list “unacceptable.”

This is where the President had good cause to resort to Article 161(2). He has selected retired Justice James Patterson, who in his judgement embodies the residual qualities required for Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission.
Since the qualities as spelt out, have to do with personal integrity, we ask what does it have to do with age. Certainly, it is not a constitutional requirement. Then, why is it being made an issue in the instance of the newly-elected chairman?
This is political hypocrisy of the highest order, particularly by Jagdeo and his party, and moreover, by many of the critics of the President’s decision. Is it not a fact that at least two members of the first list, Professor James Rose and Retired Major General Norman Mc Lean, submitted by the Leader of the Opposition, are also octogenarians? Would there have been a hue and cry, had either of these two persons been selected, even if by mutual agreement?

To further say in a writ, filed by PPP/C Executive Secretary, Zufilkar Mustpha, against the President’s selection, that Justice Patterson is a pastor, and was a pall-bearer at the late President Hoyte’s funeral, is as asinine, as it is balderdash.
Is not Onesi La Fleur, one of the names on the third list, a man of the cloth?
But this is the nature of politics: Hypocrisy and unbridled opportunism. These are on national display at the moment with the newly-righteous suddenly finding their voices.

http://guyanachronicle.com/201...ocrisy-highest-order

Mars,

You are person of sound mind. Don't let your hatred for the PPP and Jagdeo cloud your judgement. I am assuming you find favor with is editorial.

This opinion is suspect, because it is a govt propaganda piece (like it was under the previous administration). We can expect that they will toe the govt position.

No amount of legal wranglings as to what the Constitution says or did not say (in fact the court will determine this legal issue) can ignore the fact that the President missed an opportunity and is not acting in good faith. He has ignored precedents and his action will only lead to greater fallout...because he is making a political calculations. And in a divided society like ours who needs more division? 

What is becoming clear is that the nation is becoming further divided by race and nothing Granger (unless he reverses himself) does is going to even come close to suggest that he is serious about bringing the nation together and promoting social cohesion.

In fact, I am more than suspicious now than before that we are going to see free and fair elections in Guyana....and should a party or coalition other than the PNC win, Guyana will experience violence. 

ksazma posted:

After Granger careful deliberation for the GECOM chairman, he emerged with old man Patterson.

Maybe he should selected one of those recommended by Jagdeo.  The racist Ryhaan Shah, the thug Norman McLean, or the charlatan Gerry Gouveia.

VishMahabir posted:

Mars posted:

Political hypocrisy of the highest order

By admin -

 

October 24, 2017

 

  

to what the Constitution says or did not say (in fact the court will determine this legal issue) can ignore the fact that the President missed an opportunity and is not acting in good faith. 

While this is true was Jagdeo operating in good faith when he packed his list with people who were unsuitable?   Jagdeo also didn't act in good faith. He set a trap and the stupid Granger fell in.

Nowhere in all of this discussion is a demand that the constitution be changed and a fairer one which doesn't centralize power around the president be put in place.

In 2020 there will be two choices. Whoever APNU puts up (I am not sure if its going to be Granger) and Jagdeo.  Jagdeo is a man who consorted with international criminals and operated allowed the operation of private paramilitias.  If he wins he will be vindicated. He will benefit from the existing constitution, one that he is on record of praising as being the best  in the Caribbean.

Yes fall into the Jagdeo trap and claim that the GECOM chair is the biggest crisis, when in fact its the lack of action on the constitution.

People are NOT even talking about the constitution issue anymore. In 1992 changing it was to be a priority. NO ACTION. Again in 2015. AGAIN no action.  Jagdeo doesn't even talk about changing the constitution, so if he wins, increasingly likely given the dumbness of APNU, we can rest assured that Jagdeo will NOT tolerate a constitution which reduces his power.

There are 2 to 2 1/2 years before elections are due. Elections should NOT be held using the constitution that was designed by one dictator to centralize his power, and then maintained by another dictator who sought to do the same.

VishMahabir posted:

Mars,

What is becoming clear is that the nation is becoming further divided by race 

It was already divided by race. Cease being a PPP apologist.  So Indians are now getting the same lash that they meted out against blacks for 23 years. Continuing from the lashings that they got from blacks for 29 years, which were revenge for the lashings that Janet shared out on the black middle class in the early 60s.

There is nothing new here so cease with that nonsense.

VishMahabir posted:

Mars posted:

Political hypocrisy of the highest order

By admin -

 

October 24, 2017

 

  

THESE ARE interesting times; but very revealing for the hypocrisy, political opportunism, and unbridled deceit now being aired publicly, following President Granger’s appointment of the Chairman for the Guyana Elections Commission(GECOM).

First, it must be clearly emphasised that the Chairmanship of GECOM is crucial in the preparation and staging of Local Government and National Elections that are free and fair and which must be able to withstand scrutiny. Therefore, the person to be elected has to satisfy criteria that synchronises with elections that are expected to be transparent.
It is against this background, we conclude, that the President has acted in his deliberate judgement, selecting a retired High Court Judge who embodies the quality of impartiality, integrity, honesty, faithfulness and diligence, apart from being “qualified to exercise unlimited jurisdiction in civil matters.”

Notwithstanding the fact that the Leader of the Opposition is an integral part of the selection process, it should be borne in mind that there is a constitutional responsibility that rests with the president in ensuring that the process proceeds as constitutionally required. And this begins with the submission of a list of nominees.
It is the right of the President to carefully scrutinize and consider the names of nominees. Therefore, given those which were submitted especially in the first and second lists, no president who understands and takes his constitutional duties seriously, would have arrived at a decision, other than what was made – rejection of the list and names.
In essence, those lists were politically loaded, provocative in every respect, designed not to give the president much space for consideration. This is a fact that he had emphasised.
Those lists were filled with persons who were known financiers, sympathisers, and campaigners for a political party – the People’s Progressive Party/Civic (PPP/C). This was totally dishonest and intended to deceive the nation. In the main, it was disrespectful to the President to have the Leader of the Opposition submit such lists, a fact of which Bharat Jagdeo had been well aware. Why then, would he have expected President Granger to legitimise such a deceit?

What is being deliberately misrepresented is that Article 182(01) of the Constitution “empowers the President to act in his own deliberate judgement’’. In fact, the learned Chief Justice Roxanne George in the Marcel Gaskin case, spells out the fact that, “The submission of the list does not mean that the President is obliged to accept the lists or the persons named in it. The judgement goes on to state that if there is deficiency in the list, “either in totality or in the names that have been included”, he can deem the entire list “unacceptable.”

This is where the President had good cause to resort to Article 161(2). He has selected retired Justice James Patterson, who in his judgement embodies the residual qualities required for Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission.
Since the qualities as spelt out, have to do with personal integrity, we ask what does it have to do with age. Certainly, it is not a constitutional requirement. Then, why is it being made an issue in the instance of the newly-elected chairman?
This is political hypocrisy of the highest order, particularly by Jagdeo and his party, and moreover, by many of the critics of the President’s decision. Is it not a fact that at least two members of the first list, Professor James Rose and Retired Major General Norman Mc Lean, submitted by the Leader of the Opposition, are also octogenarians? Would there have been a hue and cry, had either of these two persons been selected, even if by mutual agreement?

To further say in a writ, filed by PPP/C Executive Secretary, Zufilkar Mustpha, against the President’s selection, that Justice Patterson is a pastor, and was a pall-bearer at the late President Hoyte’s funeral, is as asinine, as it is balderdash.
Is not Onesi La Fleur, one of the names on the third list, a man of the cloth?
But this is the nature of politics: Hypocrisy and unbridled opportunism. These are on national display at the moment with the newly-righteous suddenly finding their voices.

http://guyanachronicle.com/201...ocrisy-highest-order

Mars,

You are person of sound mind. Don't let your hatred for the PPP and Jagdeo cloud your judgement. I am assuming you find favor with is editorial.

This opinion is suspect, because it is a govt propaganda piece (like it was under the previous administration). We can expect that they will toe the govt position.

No amount of legal wranglings as to what the Constitution says or did not say (in fact the court will determine this legal issue) can ignore the fact that the President missed an opportunity and is not acting in good faith. He has ignored precedents and his action will only lead to greater fallout...because he is making a political calculations. And in a divided society like ours who needs more division? 

What is becoming clear is that the nation is becoming further divided by race and nothing Granger (unless he reverses himself) does is going to even come close to suggest that he is serious about bringing the nation together and promoting social cohesion.

In fact, I am more than suspicious now than before that we are going to see free and fair elections in Guyana....and should a party or coalition other than the PNC win, Guyana will experience violence. 

Jagdeo did not act in good faith to begin with by submitting an unacceptable list. How did he expect Granger to react when he tainted the process by submitting a list of PPP cronies?

caribny posted:

VishMahabir posted:

Mars,

What is becoming clear is that the nation is becoming further divided by race 

It was already divided by race. Cease being a PPP apologist.  So Indians are now getting the same lash that they meted out against blacks for 23 years. Continuing from the lashings that they got from blacks for 29 years, which were revenge for the lashings that Janet shared out on the black middle class in the early 60s.

There is nothing new here so cease with that nonsense.

You mean PNC ass kisser.

Mars posted:

 

Jagdeo did not act in good faith to begin with by submitting an unacceptable list. How did he expect Granger to react when he tainted the process by submitting a list of PPP cronies?

This reflects the evil genius of Jagdeo and the passive aggressive dumbness of Granger. Jagdeo knew full well that the president has a right to act unilaterally. He also knows that Granger is an insecure man who cannot engage people who operate from outside of his narrow circle.

Jagdeo made sure to heighten Granger's paranoia by packing the list with people who are clearly unsuitable.  That meant that even those who were suitable (no well known blacks among them) were viewed with skepticism.

Granger does as predicted by acting unilaterally selecting an ageing black person, one from within his narrow circle.

Now Jagdeo can romp around pretending to be a huge advocate for democracy.

He must be rubbing his hands in glee at how he has fooled people like Gilbakka who ought to know better. Happy as ever that he has shifted the debate away from the need to change the constitution, to the fact that Granger operate in a manner that isn't illegal, but in a dumb way.

A smarter man would have exposed Jagdeo's plot, offered "fit and proper" blacks and challenged Jagdeo to include them in a list. Jagdeo's hatred of intelligent and independent minded blacks who have character and integrity would then have been exposed.

And yes after only Indian GECOM chairs it is time for a black one.  The high levels of ethnic insecurity means that it cannot be only people from one race who occupy a position.

This ongoing tug of war between Afros and Indos will end when there is constitutional reform. We must remind all Guyanese that APNU ran on a platform of constitutional reform with their "Time for Change" agenda.

This ongoing battle will only end when this mistrust between Afros and Indos ceases and that can only begin with constitutional reform.

Granger did himself a lot of political damage by unilaterally appointing a GECOM chairman and the fallout so for is evidence of that damage. He has lost the moderate Indos who were dissatisfied with the PPP.

Granger should have thrown a monkey wrench by pushing for Constitutional reform and had the PPP refused reform then he would have had a lot of leeway in acting in a manner that suits his party.

Both the PPP and the PNC like the constitution just the way it is and until Constitutional reform happens, Afros and Indos will always be at each others throats.

GNI is an excellent example of the racial and political divide in Guyana today.

yuji22 posted:

This ongoing tug of war between Afros and Indos will end when there is constitutional reform. We must remind all Guyanese that APNU ran on a platform of constitutional reform with their "Time for Change" agenda.

This ongoing battle will only end when this mistrust between Afros and Indos ceases and that can only begin with constitutional reform.

Granger did himself a lot of political damage by unilaterally appointing a GECOM chairman and the fallout so for is evidence of that damage. He has lost the moderate Indos who were dissatisfied with the PPP.

Granger should have thrown a monkey wrench by pushing for Constitutional reform and had the PPP refused reform then he would have had a lot of leeway in acting in a manner that suits his party.

Both the PPP and the PNC like the constitution just the way it is and until Constitutional reform happens, Afros and Indos will always be at each others throats.

GNI is an excellent example of the racial and political divide in Guyana today.

 

 

You are having a rare more moment of rational thinking.  I would think that the focus would be on asking why Granger is doing NOTHING about constitutional change.

The PPP broke its promise to fix this problem and now Granger is trying to do the same.

What this situation has revealed isn't that Granger was in breach of the constitution. It shows how FLAWED the constitution is.

This will have to end at some point and the point should be NOW. So why aren't people using this as a way to signal that Guyanese are TIRED of the nonsense that they have suffered now for 60 years.  When the Bajan gov't did nonsense almost 20% of that island's population showed up to protest.

There ought to be a multi ethnic coalition of trade unions, business associations, churches, youth groups and every other facet of civic society and they ought to tell Jagdeo and Granger and Harmon and other carpet baggers that they are NOT invited!

But Guyanese will be suckered in once again.  Their opinion of this will be determined by their racial affiliations and Jagdeo will sucker them. Granger being too dumb to do this.

For a rare moment, we are both in agreement.

This ongoing tug of war will end when Jagdeo, Ganger and the likes of these politicians ride off into the sunset. Afros and Indos can hold hands and demand constitutional reform so that they can finally break the bondage of mistrust that have divided them for Soooooo Looooong.

Failing this, the ongoing tug of war plays right into the hands of these politicians who are using race and constitution for their own self interest.

yuji22 posted:

This ongoing tug of war between Afros and Indos will end when there is constitutional reform. We must remind all Guyanese that APNU ran on a platform of constitutional reform with their "Time for Change" agenda.

This ongoing battle will only end when this mistrust between Afros and Indos ceases and that can only begin with constitutional reform.

Granger did himself a lot of political damage by unilaterally appointing a GECOM chairman and the fallout so for is evidence of that damage. He has lost the moderate Indos who were dissatisfied with the PPP.

Granger should have thrown a monkey wrench by pushing for Constitutional reform and had the PPP refused reform then he would have had a lot of leeway in acting in a manner that suits his party.

Both the PPP and the PNC like the constitution just the way it is and until Constitutional reform happens, Afros and Indos will always be at each others throats.

GNI is an excellent example of the racial and political divide in Guyana today.

 

 

Wow Yugi!

Well said!

Chief posted:

 

Wow Yugi!

Well said!

Some one hacked his account.  This couldn't be him.

caribny posted:

Chief posted:

 

Wow Yugi!

Well said!

Some one hacked his account.  This couldn't be him.

Allright Carib!

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

After Granger careful deliberation for the GECOM chairman, he emerged with old man Patterson.

Maybe he should selected one of those recommended by Jagdeo.  The racist Ryhaan Shah, the thug Norman McLean, or the charlatan Gerry Gouveia.

Dude, the man gave the nation's second highest award to the crook, Hamilton Green.

ksazma posted:

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

After Granger careful deliberation for the GECOM chairman, he emerged with old man Patterson.

Maybe he should selected one of those recommended by Jagdeo.  The racist Ryhaan Shah, the thug Norman McLean, or the charlatan Gerry Gouveia.

Dude, the man gave the nation's second highest award to the crook, Hamilton Green.

So Granger and Jagdeo both love crooks.  Your point?

Django posted:

The Editorial should not be taken lightly,that country reeks with political corruption,it's a shame 50 + yrs after Independence,it's same old ...same old.

bai...ah gotto tell yuh...ress yuh rass bout the editorial should not be taken lightly.

Yuh know that this selection by Granger was crap

Riff, dont tell dat to Ian Smith. Anything the GADAHA touch turns to GOLD in his eyes.

caribny posted:

Now Jagdeo can romp around pretending to be a huge advocate for democracy. He must be rubbing his hands in glee at how he has fooled people like Gilbakka who ought to know better. 

 

Not so fast, sir. You're running ahead of Gilbakka who in all sincerity is being pushed by APNU+AFC actions back to his original political home, the PPP. I want it to be clear that this doesn't mean that I consider Jagdeo a "huge advocate for democracy". Far from it.

As I've said, I am looking long term to a post-Jagdeo PPP. I think it could come as early as 2020 if not earlier. I gather through the grapevine that a fair number of PPP supporters presently think that the Party should not put up Jagdeo as presidential candidate in 2020 though they admit it's a tough challenge to find a substitute. 

Gilbakka posted:

caribny posted:

Now Jagdeo can romp around pretending to be a huge advocate for democracy. He must be rubbing his hands in glee at how he has fooled people like Gilbakka who ought to know better. 

 

Not so fast, sir. You're running ahead of Gilbakka who in all sincerity is being pushed by APNU+AFC actions back to his original political home, the PPP. I want it to be clear that this doesn't mean that I consider Jagdeo a "huge advocate for democracy". Far from it.

As I've said, I am looking long term to a post-Jagdeo PPP. I think it could come as early as 2020 if not earlier. I gather through the grapevine that a fair number of PPP supporters presently think that the Party should not put up Jagdeo as presidential candidate in 2020 though they admit it's a tough challenge to find a substitute. 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

ksazma posted:

Gilbakka posted:

caribny posted:

Now Jagdeo can romp around pretending to be a huge advocate for democracy. He must be rubbing his hands in glee at how he has fooled people like Gilbakka who ought to know better. 

 

Not so fast, sir. You're running ahead of Gilbakka who in all sincerity is being pushed by APNU+AFC actions back to his original political home, the PPP. I want it to be clear that this doesn't mean that I consider Jagdeo a "huge advocate for democracy". Far from it.

As I've said, I am looking long term to a post-Jagdeo PPP. I think it could come as early as 2020 if not earlier. I gather through the grapevine that a fair number of PPP supporters presently think that the Party should not put up Jagdeo as presidential candidate in 2020 though they admit it's a tough challenge to find a substitute. 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

ksazma posted:

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

Exactly that is what is needed and should be at the front burner.

ksazma posted:

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

The PPP suppressed the holding of Local Government Elections for many years after they were constitutionally due. Preventing the holding of elections is just as bad as rigging them.

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

Exactly that is what is needed and should be at the front burner.

The Coalition swore that they will reform the Constitution. It was a con job that many well meaning folks believed. Now those folks are realizing that the Coalition was only making empty promises and are doing the right thing by separating themselves from this wicked Coalition.

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

Gilbakka posted:

caribny posted:

Now Jagdeo can romp around pretending to be a huge advocate for democracy. He must be rubbing his hands in glee at how he has fooled people like Gilbakka who ought to know better. 

 

Not so fast, sir. You're running ahead of Gilbakka who in all sincerity is being pushed by APNU+AFC actions back to his original political home, the PPP. I want it to be clear that this doesn't mean that I consider Jagdeo a "huge advocate for democracy". Far from it.

As I've said, I am looking long term to a post-Jagdeo PPP. I think it could come as early as 2020 if not earlier. I gather through the grapevine that a fair number of PPP supporters presently think that the Party should not put up Jagdeo as presidential candidate in 2020 though they admit it's a tough challenge to find a substitute. 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

You talking about apnu+AFC here, boy. They won by only 4,506 votes, a slim margin.

Mars posted:

ksazma posted:

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

The PPP suppressed the holding of Local Government Elections when they were constitutionally due. Preventing the holding of elections is just as bad as rigging them.

That said, people don't lose sleep over local elections. People get dressed up to go vote for the big elections. Incidentally even in America, that attitude is prevalent. Many folks don't even know when there are local elections unless those local elections are also on the date of the Presidential elections. So for the ones that really mattered, the PPP were right on schedule. Even early at times. Plus saying that the PPP suppressed local elections is perhaps taking liberty with the word suppressed.

Gilbakka posted:

Django posted:

 

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

You talking about apnu+AFC here, boy. They won by only 4,506 votes, a slim margin.

And that 4506 vote differential is still an unresolved matter. 

ksazma posted:

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

Exactly that is what is needed and should be at the front burner.

The Coalition swore that they will reform the Constitution. It was a con job that many well meaning folks believed. Now those folks are realizing that the Coalition was only making empty promises and are doing the right thing by separating themselves from this wicked Coalition.

Constitutional Reform Consultative Commission Bill 2017

ksazma posted:

Mars posted:

ksazma posted:

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

The PPP suppressed the holding of Local Government Elections when they were constitutionally due. Preventing the holding of elections is just as bad as rigging them.

That said, people don't lose sleep over local elections. People get dressed up to go vote for the big elections. Incidentally even in America, that attitude is prevalent. Many folks don't even know when there are local elections unless those local elections are also on the date of the Presidential elections. So for the ones that really mattered, the PPP were right on schedule. Even early at times. Plus saying that the PPP suppressed local elections is perhaps taking liberty with the word suppressed.

Local Government Elections are a constitutional requirement and yes they do matter. The PPP violated the constitution by suppressing elections when they were due. That is not democracy by any standard. 

Mars posted:

ksazma posted:

Mars posted:

ksazma posted:

Django posted:

ksazma posted:

 

Even if Jagdeo is toxic, the PPP still has a record of upholding the most sacred principle of democracy. The PNC on the other hand can never make that statement and Granger's actions indicate that they intend to maintain their ugly record.

What kind of Democracy is it ?,when one party wins by thin margin in a multi-ethnic society and governs forever,sounds like Dictatorship.

Democracy is when each vote counts for one vote and it is free, fair and transparent. The party that has the larger vote count wins even is that party has less than 50% of the vote. That was the case each time between 1992 and 2015. The PPP was never accused to rigging any elections between that time. The PNC does not have that record. Now the 1992 elections were held without the normal PNC shenanigans but that was only because Hoyte's feet was held to the fire. The PNC had dictatorships not the PPP. No doubt Guyanese would be better served by a representative government though.

The PPP suppressed the holding of Local Government Elections when they were constitutionally due. Preventing the holding of elections is just as bad as rigging them.

That said, people don't lose sleep over local elections. People get dressed up to go vote for the big elections. Incidentally even in America, that attitude is prevalent. Many folks don't even know when there are local elections unless those local elections are also on the date of the Presidential elections. So for the ones that really mattered, the PPP were right on schedule. Even early at times. Plus saying that the PPP suppressed local elections is perhaps taking liberty with the word suppressed.

Local Government Elections are a constitutional requirement and yes they do matter. The PPP violated the constitution by suppressing elections when they were due. That is not democracy by any standard. 

That's why I agree with Carib that BJ is not the best advocate for democracy.

Mars posted:

 

Local Government Elections are a constitutional requirement and yes they do matter. The PPP violated the constitution by suppressing elections when they were due. That is not democracy by any standard. 

According to the constitution, when are local government elections due?

ksazma posted:

Mars posted:

 

Local Government Elections are a constitutional requirement and yes they do matter. The PPP violated the constitution by suppressing elections when they were due. That is not democracy by any standard. 

According to the constitution, when are local government elections due?

http://www.gecom.org.gy/faq.html

Q23. Are there provisions in the law which permit or require Regional and/or Local Government Elections to be held on the same day?
Regional Elections are usually held on the same day as National Elections only. Local Government elections are lawfully due every four years.

ksazma posted:

Mars posted:

 

Local Government Elections are a constitutional requirement and yes they do matter. The PPP violated the constitution by suppressing elections when they were due. That is not democracy by any standard. 

According to the constitution, when are local government elections due?

Next year.