Hope: The Anchor of the Soul

Hebrews 6:13-20

An anchor was a popular image in the ancient Mediterranean world. Because that economy depended on shipping, the anchor came to symbolize safety and steadiness. The writer of Hebrews used the word to remind believers that God has given a hope that holds firm in any storm.

Hope is a healthy attitude. Anticipating good brings comfort to the mind and heart. In contrast, a state of hopelessness is a terrible condition in which to find oneself. It’s overwhelming and depressing to think that what you’re facing cannot be changed or resolved. For the person who has lost all hope, life looks like a long, dark tunnel going nowhere.

Included in Proverbs is a verse that describes the result of this oppressive feeling: “Hope deferred makes the heart sick” (Prov. 13:12). Emotional, physical, and even mental illness haunt a person who feels trapped in a bleak situation. But as long as there is a God, no situation is hopeless. In Him, we have the promise of the second half of that proverb: “Desire fulfilled is a tree of life.”

Believers have a hope that anchors their soul. Our relationship with Jesus Christ brings us close to the throne of heaven, where we can cast all our burdens before an omnipotent God. Moreover, we can cling to Him through any trial that comes our way. Because of the Lord’s great love, He provides strength for weary bodies, peace for anxious minds, and comfort for grieving hearts. In short, He lights that darkened tunnel and tenderly guides us through trying situations.

ksazma posted:
skeldon_man posted:

So Brother Keith, what is your real job? Are you a minister or a regular run of the mill 8 hour working guy?

We idrine gane. He nah like answering questions.

Morning fellows, do hope you had a wonderful weekend as I did. As mention before weekends are family time for me. I don't spend my time on forum on weekends. I work a regular 8am-4:30pm job and I am not a minister.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
skeldon_man posted:

So Brother Keith, what is your real job? Are you a minister or a regular run of the mill 8 hour working guy?

We idrine gane. He nah like answering questions.

Morning fellows, do hope you had a wonderful weekend as I did. As mention before weekends are family time for me. I don't spend my time on forum on weekends. I work a regular 8am-4:30pm job and I am not a minister.

Thanks brother Keith. Family is very important.

A Living Hope

1 Peter 1:3-5

Believers are born into a living hope, whereas people without Christ have no foundation for their expectations and desires. Many non-Christians live with a false sense of security. They assume that what is important in this life is the physical and material. But there is no safety in things (1 Tim. 6:9). Those who pursue wealth and health rather than God find that their dreams either go unfulfilled or fail to satisfy.

Christians anchor their hope in the solid rock of Jesus Christ. His words are always true and His promises are never broken. I’ll sometimes hear a person project his or her unfulfilled desires on God and then argue that He came up short. But believers who make a request and submit to God’s will always get an answer: yes, no, or wait.

The Lord does not disappoint those who seek His will. Don’t misunderstand that statement. We might feel temporarily let down when something we hope for is not in God’s plan. But He doesn’t go back on the biblical promise to give His children what’s best (Isa. 48:17; Isa. 64:4). When one door closes, there is another about to open with something better behind it. And remember, the Lord cannot be outdone. We can’t even wish ourselves as much good as God has in store.

The best choice a Christian can make is to fix his or her hope on the Lord Jesus Christ. Welcome whatever fits His will for your life, and turn away from all that does not. Circumstances may shift and change, but Jesus never does. He is a living hope who never disappoints.

Abraham’s Lesson on Obedience

Genesis 16:1-16

The Old Testament gives us the account of Abraham’s life. While the patriarch had a special relationship with God, his faith was not perfect. Over the years, he came to understand the importance of obedience—and how costly it can be to rebel.

Abraham learned the hard way that manipulating circumstances to gain a desired result can bring heartache. God had promised him and Sarah a child, but they were still waiting for that blessing when they were elderly. Already in her 70s, Sarah suggested that Abraham get an heir by having a child with her servant Hagar. The result was jealousy, family strife, and a bloody conflict that still rages today between the descendants of Hagar’s son Ishmael and Sarah’s son Isaac.

Obedience will bring the Lord’s best, but it requires waiting on Him. Abraham was already an old man when God promised him descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky (Gen. 15:5). This would not be fulfilled until he was 100 and Sarah was well past her child-bearing years, which meant that all the glory for Isaac’s miraculous conception and birth went to the Lord (Gen. 21:1-7). Jumping ahead of God had harsh, long-term consequences. But the good news is that the couple’s mistakes could not prevent Him from carrying out His plan.

The Lord has given us His Word so we might learn from the saints of old. The story of Abraham’s life teaches us that obedience is essential. When we place our trust in a sovereign God and wait upon His timing, He will always prove faithful.

Whenever a man and woman have sex resulting in the birth of a child, they become father and mother of that child. Nothing complicated about that. Therefore at no point during Ishmael's life was Abraham NOT the father of Ishmael. It is crazy for the Bible to suggest that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son since Ishmael was already some 14 years at the time of Isaac's birth. The Bible suggesting that God said "take your son, your only son, Isaac" means only one of two things. Either the Bible is confused or God is.

Anyone who questions Abraham's faith needs to have their head examined. For a Christian to do so is ironic given that Abraham's faith in God was greater than Jesus' was. Abraham never asked God why He has forsaken him.

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46 - King James Version

Abraham did not just bear a child with Hagar. He married her first. Therefore, his child with Hagar was legitimate. There is not another person mentioned in the Bible, including Jesus who can get anywhere near the relationship that Abraham has with God. Who else would migrate his wife and infant child to a desert land because he was directed by God to do so. Who else would be willing to kill his ONLY son Ishmael who he got at the advanced age of 86 when he was 99 years old and Ismael was just 13. (And yes, this event took place the year BEFORE Isaac was born). The person who did those things is Abraham, the true friend of God, the most impressive person mentioned in the Bible.

Abraham’s Test

Genesis 22:1-24

Abraham faced one of the greatest tests of obedience recorded in the Bible: God asked him to slay his son as an offering. It’s hard to imagine the confusion and pain this request must have caused. However, Abraham obeyed the Lord willingly and promptly. His response teaches us some important lessons about yielding to the Lord.

Obedience often collides with reason. After telling Abraham he’d have descendants too numerous to count, God asked him to sacrifice Isaac, who was to be the father of the promised line. Despite the strangeness of the command, Abraham trusted God to keep His word and so set out to obey (Heb. 11:18-19).

Obedience means leaving the consequences to God. Abraham had no idea how the promise could be fulfilled if Isaac was dead. But his words and actions indicate he believed in divine sovereignty. When Abraham took the boy to Mount Moriah, he told his servants, “I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you” (Gen. 22:5). He didn’t say, “I will return” but expressed that both would come back. Abraham went to the holy place as instructed. At the same time, he fully expected that the Lord would somehow restore Isaac in order to keep His pledge. God fulfilled His promise by pro viding a ram in the boy’s place (Gen. 22:13-14).

The Lord already knows how His children will respond to tests of obedience. He challenges people because He wants them to know the truth about how well they submit. A believer’s willingness to obey (or disobey) reveals the state of his or her commitment to God.

If Abraham was going to kill Isaac with God hoping to make him think that he will not have all those descendants, then Abraham outsmarted God because he still had a living son Ishmael who can provide those descendants. Looks like Abraham is smarter than God. Or it is more like the writers of the Bible are confused. To repeat, at no time was Isaac Abraham's ONLY son because Ishmael was alive and about 14 years when Isaac was born.

Service Is Not an Option

Titus 2:11-15

Who is a servant of God? Ask average churchgoers that question, and they will most likely point to their pastor or some Christian celebrity. They almost certainly will not say, “We are God’s servants.” The church has a mixed-up idea that believers are separated into servants—that is, individuals in full-time ministry—and laypeople. The Bible contains no such distinction. Instead, Paul reminds the Ephesians that believers are saved so that they might serve (Ephesians 2:10).

If there were no other reason to serve God besides gratitude for salvation, that would be cause enough. We are rescued from torment and given eternal life with the Holy Spirit’s indwelling presence. Our service is but a small acknowledgment of the Father sending His Son to be sacrificed in payment of the sin debt we owed. We have no right to withhold our gifts or time.

Many people, believers included, serve the big “I.” What satisfies and pleases “I”? What is convenient for “I”? What makes “I” happy and prosperous? When a pastor appeals for help, most of his parishioners are sure he is speaking to someone else because “I” has insufficient training or a busy schedule. Here is a harsh reality: If “I” is our master, we are committing “I”-dolatry. Anything given first place over God—including selfish desires—is an idol.

Service isn’t an option. God calls us to be servants so we can invest our lives in an eternally valuable purpose: the salvation of unbelievers and their subsequent discipleship for His glory. Our job may seem insignificant or our limitations great, but we are vessels of Christ with a role in the kingdom.

ksazma posted:

If Abraham was going to kill Isaac with God hoping to make him think that he will not have all those descendants, then Abraham outsmarted God because he still had a living son Ishmael who can provide those descendants. Looks like Abraham is smarter than God. Or it is more like the writers of the Bible are confused. To repeat, at no time was Isaac Abraham's ONLY son because Ishmael was alive and about 14 years when Isaac was born.

Answer: Ok, let me address this only ONCE you have repeatedly attack the Bible by saying it was full of contradictions. As I always emphasizes in many of our previous discussion, READ and UNDERSTAND what you are reading.

Let’s look it up, because the way you stated it looks like a contradiction. It is true that Ishmael was Isaac’s older brother [Genesis 16:11], but I would rather see what the Bible actually says.

ksazma hope you are not offended that I didn’t take your word for it. And besides, for the others looking in on this discussion, this is a good lesson in itself. Why trust what someone says God says, when we can easily read God’s Word for ourselves?

Let's look at Genesis 22 and read:

Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2)

The passage didn’t say exactly what you are claiming. Look at the phrase "whom you love" as a qualifier for "your only son." In other words, Isaac was the only son Abraham loved.

I don't see a contradiction here, since the Bible says Abraham had only one son that he loved. Ah, alright, I assume you are thinking I am playing with words right.....lets just go with that assumption for a minute.

Here is where the old meets the new or is it the new align with the old testament books.....Are we awake, pay close attention now. Look at Hebrew 11:17-19:

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18of whom it was said, "In Isaac your seed shall be called," 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.

The passage in Hebrews qualifies the "only son" concept as well. Isaac was the only begotten (i.e., unique, special) son of Abraham. Isaac was indeed unique and special in that he was the promised son through whom Jesus Christ, the Messiah, would come (Genesis 17:19–21).

Similarly, Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16), even though others are called the sons of God (e.g., Adam in Luke 3:38 and Christians in Galatians 3:26). Jesus is the only unique and special Son of God, God who became a man.

This brings up another answer to the alleged contradiction. The Hebrew word used for "only" is yachiyd, which means "unique" or "only begotten" (special). So the Hebrew clarifies that Isaac is indeed the special, unique, only begotten son of Abraham. Isaac was the son of promise. So this answers the alleged contradiction.

Sometimes we miss the obvious answer as well. In the previous chapter (Genesis 21), Ishmael was sent away. So in chapter 22, Isaac was Abraham’s only son, for his other had gone away, presumably never to return under Abraham’s household. So this is another plausible solution to the alleged contradiction. Also, once Isaac had grown and Sarah had died, Abraham married Keturah, and they had six sons together (Genesis 25:1–2).

Let’s briefly go back to my initial answer. Did Abraham not love Ishmael? It’s true that he listened to Sarah and sent Ishmael and his mother, Hagar, away. But Abraham was originally distressed by this plan. God told him, "Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. Yet I will also make a nation of the bondwoman, because he is your seed" (Genesis 21:12–13). This was the second time God had promised Abraham that Ishmael would be blessed. In the first instance, Abraham asked God to make Ishmael the son of promise (Genesis 17:18–20). So it seems very likely that Abraham did love Ishmael and that my initial response was inaccurate.

Conclusion: For my follow Christian brothers & sisters who are reading this post, this answer highlights two important practices in dealing with the alleged contradictions in Scripture. First, make sure you take the time to read the relevant passages to make sure the one making the charge is accurately quoting the Bible. I did that in this instance. Second, remember that you don’t have to answer right away, especially if you haven’t studied the subject before. It is crucial to take the time to explore the Scriptures so you can give an accurate response. There is no contradiction about the number of Abraham’s sons.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone. Obey God and leave all consequences to Him.

antabanta posted:

So God incited Abraham to abandon his older son, Ishmael?

I don't think Abraham ever abandoned Ishmael. Much to Keith's disappointment the Bible is not the only source of information. There are references to Abraham spending lots of time with Hager and Ishmael during Ishmael's lifetime including when Ishmael was grown and married. Religious peoples like to talk about miracles they read about in old books. Now while the origin of the zam zam well is written in old books and is open to discussion, if one was to acknowledge that it began as a water source for baby Ishmael, then that miracle is still available and can be seen with the physical eyes some 9000 years later.

Bai Keith, you really did some somersaults around that question. But the part that really got my attention is when you stated that God told Abraham that he, Abraham only loved Isaac. However, by the time you got to the end of your response you admitted that Abraham loved Ishmael too. So how come you know this but God didn't when He told Abraham that he, Abraham didn't love Ishmael.

For the record, the Bible stated that the family rift came about because Sarah became jealous of Hagar. Hard for Sarah to be jealous of Hagar if Abraham didn't think highly of Hagar. There is also a reference to her being upset with Ishmael. Here again it shows God's terrible judgment in blessing Sarah with the coveted covenant in-spite of her horrible disposition.

The reality is that the circumstances are not as described in the Bible. I doubt Abraham had both women living in the same space.

ksazma posted:

Bai Keith, you really did some somersaults around that question. But the part that really got my attention is when you stated that God told Abraham that he, Abraham only loved Isaac. However, by the time you got to the end of your response you admitted that Abraham loved Ishmael too. So how come you know this but God didn't when He told Abraham that he, Abraham didn't love Ishmael.

For the record, the Bible stated that the family rift came about because Sarah became jealous of Hagar. Hard for Sarah to be jealous of Hagar if Abraham didn't think highly of Hagar. There is also a reference to her being upset with Ishmael. Here again it shows God's terrible judgment in blessing Sarah with the coveted covenant in-spite of her horrible disposition.

The reality is that the circumstances are not as described in the Bible. I doubt Abraham had both women living in the same space.

My brother where did I mention what was highlighted above? I have resented the Genesis 22:2 scripture in its entirety, what is your understanding of that same scripture?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Bai Keith, you really did some somersaults around that question. But the part that really got my attention is when you stated that God told Abraham that he, Abraham only loved Isaac. However, by the time you got to the end of your response you admitted that Abraham loved Ishmael too. So how come you know this but God didn't when He told Abraham that he, Abraham didn't love Ishmael.

For the record, the Bible stated that the family rift came about because Sarah became jealous of Hagar. Hard for Sarah to be jealous of Hagar if Abraham didn't think highly of Hagar. There is also a reference to her being upset with Ishmael. Here again it shows God's terrible judgment in blessing Sarah with the coveted covenant in-spite of her horrible disposition.

The reality is that the circumstances are not as described in the Bible. I doubt Abraham had both women living in the same space.

My brother where did I mention what was highlighted above? I have resented the Genesis 22:2 scripture in its entirety, what is your understanding of that same scripture?

This is what you wrote above. Perhaps you don't want to use this argument anymore.  Who was speaking to Abraham in Genesis 22:2?

Let's look at Genesis 22 and read:

Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2)

The passage didn’t say exactly what you are claiming. Look at the phrase "whom you love" as a qualifier for "your only son." In other words, Isaac was the only son Abraham loved.

Keith posted:
 

 

I have resented the Genesis 22:2 scripture in its entirety, what is your understanding of that same scripture?

Either Moses (who wrote Genesis) is confused or God is.

Incidentally, although people generally believe that Moses wrote these five books, Bible scholars have come to accept that parts were written by others, more predominantly, Ezra.

ksazma posted:
antabanta posted:

So God incited Abraham to abandon his older son, Ishmael?

I don't think Abraham ever abandoned Ishmael. Much to Keith's disappointment the Bible is not the only source of information. There are references to Abraham spending lots of time with Hager and Ishmael during Ishmael's lifetime including when Ishmael was grown and married. Religious peoples like to talk about miracles they read about in old books. Now while the origin of the zam zam well is written in old books and is open to discussion, if one was to acknowledge that it began as a water source for baby Ishmael, then that miracle is still available and can be seen with the physical eyes some 9000 years later.

But why would a benevolent god instigate a rift in an innocent man's family?

antabanta posted:
ksazma posted:
antabanta posted:

So God incited Abraham to abandon his older son, Ishmael?

I don't think Abraham ever abandoned Ishmael. Much to Keith's disappointment the Bible is not the only source of information. There are references to Abraham spending lots of time with Hager and Ishmael during Ishmael's lifetime including when Ishmael was grown and married. Religious peoples like to talk about miracles they read about in old books. Now while the origin of the zam zam well is written in old books and is open to discussion, if one was to acknowledge that it began as a water source for baby Ishmael, then that miracle is still available and can be seen with the physical eyes some 9000 years later.

But why would a benevolent god instigate a rift in an innocent man's family?

I don't think that the rift was instigated by God. There is scripture that rhetorically criticizes the Christians for judging Abraham by Moses' laws when those were not the prevailing laws during Abraham's time. Having only one wife was not the prevailing law/custom during Abraham's time so he did nothing wrong when he married Hagar and had his first child.

I don't accept the Bible's depiction of a jealous and vindictive Sarah. I think that is the Biblical writers or the historians of that time who sought to create a division between Abraham's first two sons so they can solidify their own history. I think it is much simpler. Abraham initially had two wives, Sarah who lived in Canaan and Hagar who lived in Mecca. There was no rift as men back then had many wives and the women accepted that condition.

That said, our actions are a product of our emotions, not God's actions. Even today, we have people who were once madly in love that later end up angrily killing each other. One day, we love our job and another day, we are bored or unhappy with it. Human emotions are constantly changing. I don't think that is a product of God.

 

Btw, I love hos the Bible referred to his third wife, kethura as wife and concubine in the same sentence. I think the writing pattern of the Bible give the impression of the end justifying the means.

Preparation Through Prayer

Acts 1:9-14

The book of Acts is an amazing record of how God worked in and through the early church, and one of their most important activities was prayer. While Jesus was with His disciples, little was recorded of them praying because they could talk directly to Christ. But after His ascension, they immediately gathered in the upper room and “devot[ed] themselves to prayer” (Acts 1:14).

Talking to God was their means of preparing for the work He had for them. Jesus had told them the Father would give the Holy Spirit to those who ask (Luke 11:13). Then after the resurrection, He instructed them to stay in Jerusalem until they were “clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). Without the Spirit, they were not adequate for the Great Commission even though they’d spent time with Jesus. And if they needed the Spirit’s power, so do we.

To the degree we’re willing to admit our absolute helplessness to do God’s work, the Holy Spirit will empower us as we pray. When we are devoted to prayer, the Lord begins to work in our heart, preparing us for service. He gives us the Spirit’s boldness to speak God’s Word (Acts 4:31) and the courage to face any persecutions that might result (Acts 4:29).

God is looking for believers who understand the importance of prayer and realize the only way to fulfill His calling for the church is through His supernatural power. Christ’s church is not grown through programs, seminars, and conferences, but through the humble prayers of saints who gather together in utter dependence upon Him. That’s when God’s power is released and His will is accomplished.

ksazma posted:
 

This is what you wrote above. Perhaps you don't want to use this argument anymore.  Who was speaking to Abraham in Genesis 22:2?

Let's look at Genesis 22 and read:

Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2)

The passage didn’t say exactly what you are claiming. Look at the phrase "whom you love" as a qualifier for "your only son." In other words, Isaac was the only son Abraham loved.

 What is your understanding of Genesis 22:2 scripture? Still waiting?
Incase you missed it

Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2)

The passage didn’t say exactly what you are claiming. Look at the phrase "whom you love" as a qualifier for "your only son." In other words, Isaac was the only son Abraham loved.

Do you recalled a man name Jacob, how many sons he has and which one he loved the most?

antabanta posted:

Ksaz... thank you for responding. I was hoping to get some lively debate with this Keith character but looks like my questions are below his level of intelligence.

Anta, of recent I have begun looking at scriptures (including the Qur'an) as documents as opposed to words of God. I find that to be very beneficial.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
 

This is what you wrote above. Perhaps you don't want to use this argument anymore.  Who was speaking to Abraham in Genesis 22:2?

Let's look at Genesis 22 and read:

Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2)

The passage didn’t say exactly what you are claiming. Look at the phrase "whom you love" as a qualifier for "your only son." In other words, Isaac was the only son Abraham loved.

 What is your understanding of Genesis 22:2 scripture? Still waiting?
Incase you missed it

Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2)

The passage didn’t say exactly what you are claiming. Look at the phrase "whom you love" as a qualifier for "your only son." In other words, Isaac was the only son Abraham loved.

Do you recalled a man name Jacob, how many sons he has and which one he loved the most?

Dude, your reference above is supporting my argument. Did you think it was supporting yours.

Your problem Keith is that you get lost in those lengthy pieces that you post. You would be better off taking one item at a time. So let us revisit the issue of Abraham's first two sons. At the time of Abraham's attempted sacrifice, was Isaac Abraham's only son or was Ishmael Abraham's only son. Try a yes or no answer. You might just be amazed at how emancipated you will feel. Try it.

antabanta posted:

Ksaz... thank you for responding. I was hoping to get some lively debate with this Keith character but looks like my questions are below his level of intelligence.

You are absolutely right, I couldn't say any better, instead of wasting my time on your questions I could get my son, who's fit to answer your questions as you put it, 'way below my intellect'

Keith posted:
antabanta posted:

Ksaz... thank you for responding. I was hoping to get some lively debate with this Keith character but looks like my questions are below his level of intelligence.

You are absolutely right, I couldn't say any better, instead of wasting my time on your questions I could get my son, who's fit to answer your questions as you put it, 'way below my intellect'

It is my pleasure to provide you with the means to weasel out. When will your son be available? Hopefully he fell far from the tree and will display more courage.

Answer: This would be Conclusion on this topic. ksazma posed the question, "Was Isaac Abraham’s only son, yes/no?" Answering yes or no can be really misleading.

Now, was Ishmael a different kind of "son" than Isaac? It turns out he was, in a number of ways, pay close attention b/c I am not going to go back and forth with you on this topic.

1: - Isaac was the child God promised him, while Ishmael was the child he tried to have on his own, to fulfill God's promise himself

2:- Ishmael (like Abimelech,) was born of a concubine, and not by his father's own wife

3:- As a result, it was in Isaac that Abraham's descendants were to be named, read Genesis 21:12:

12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

So, was Ishmael Abraham's son? Yes! In one sense; according to the flesh. Was Isaac Abraham's "only son"? Yes! In another sense; according to the promise. Abraham's "only son" came by his only wife, according to God's only promise, and thus, it was only in Isaac that Abraham's descendants would be named. And incidentally, this is exactly the conclusion that a number of esteemed Biblical commentators have come to, e.g.:

"thine only son Isaac; for, though Ishmael was his son, he was a son by his maid, by his concubine, and not by his wife; Isaac was his only legitimate son, his only son by his lawful wife Sarah; the only son of the promise, his only son, in whom his seed was to be called."

Good day fellows, ready 2 Timothy 2:15, enjoy your day.

 

When Spiritual Passion Diminishes

2 Timothy 1:1-11

Do you feel yourself growing cold toward the Lord? As His children, we can never lose our salvation, but it is possible for our spiritual passion to cool.

Today’s passage reveals that even Timothy experienced a decrease in his excitement for God. That’s why Paul wrote to him, encouraging the young pastor at Ephesus to fan the flame of his faith.

Spiritual “cooling” can happen to any Christian. Oftentimes it starts when tragedy or disappointment diverts our attention. Instead of crying out to the Lord and finding shelter in Him, we gradually cease reading the Bible. The Word of God is like wood in a fireplace: The flames can be kept alive only when there are logs to burn. As less time is spent in Scripture, other aspects of our relationship with God are affected. Church attendance diminishes, giving becomes sporadic, and prayer—which seems increasingly stale—is used only for emergencies.

At this point, we may find ourselves unwilling to stand up for what we once deemed important. The temptation to compromise can lead to guilt and defensiveness about how we’re living. Finally, the joy, contentment, and peace of God are replaced by worry, doubt, and fear.

A believer who allows himself to drift will miss out on the comfort and fulfillment of a close, vibrant relationship with the Lord. Think back. Is your excitement about the things of God stronger now than ever before? Or has it diminished over time? If your fire needs stoking, ask the Holy Spirit to show you how.

Keith posted:

Answer: This would be Conclusion on this topic. ksazma posed the question, "Was Isaac Abraham’s only son, yes/no?" Answering yes or no can be really misleading.

Now, was Ishmael a different kind of "son" than Isaac? It turns out he was, in a number of ways, pay close attention b/c I am not going to go back and forth with you on this topic.

1: - Isaac was the child God promised him, while Ishmael was the child he tried to have on his own, to fulfill God's promise himself

2:- Ishmael (like Abimelech,) was born of a concubine, and not by his father's own wife

3:- As a result, it was in Isaac that Abraham's descendants were to be named, read Genesis 21:12:

12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

So, was Ishmael Abraham's son? Yes! In one sense; according to the flesh. Was Isaac Abraham's "only son"? Yes! In another sense; according to the promise. Abraham's "only son" came by his only wife, according to God's only promise, and thus, it was only in Isaac that Abraham's descendants would be named. And incidentally, this is exactly the conclusion that a number of esteemed Biblical commentators have come to, e.g.:

"thine only son Isaac; for, though Ishmael was his son, he was a son by his maid, by his concubine, and not by his wife; Isaac was his only legitimate son, his only son by his lawful wife Sarah; the only son of the promise, his only son, in whom his seed was to be called."

Good day fellows, ready 2 Timothy 2:15, enjoy your day.

 

Two questions before we continue. If Sarah and Hagar are so important to this issue, why are they referred throughout the Bible as Abraham's sons? According to Jewish law, children are direct descendants of their fathers as demonstrated by the two different genealogies of Jesus. The seed is from the father and the mother is basically just carrying the child. That is Jewish law.

Secondly, can a child be blessed with life without the act of God? My guess is that you will say no. Therefore God has to be confused to think that Ishmael did not come from Him. Or more like the writers of the Bible were confused. In their effort to deny a child his father, they made up stories that now don't stand the test of time. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't predict the coming of tools that would make searches easy. For people who like to go on and on about predictions, they are now forced to be tormented by modern day tools that expose all the mischiefs of the writers of the Bible.

Now that is logic. Not the nonsense about a child not being his father's child when it was his father's semen that brought him into this world.

Keith posted:

 

2 Timothy 1:1-11

Do you feel yourself growing cold toward the Lord? As His children, we can never lose our salvation, but it is possible for our spiritual passion to cool.

Today’s passage reveals that even Timothy experienced a decrease in his excitement for God. That’s why Paul wrote to him, encouraging the young pastor at Ephesus to fan the flame of his faith.

 

Interesting that Paul is here encouraging Timothy to fan the flame of his faith when even Jesus had serious issues with Paul as demonstrated in the following passage from Acts 26:14-15

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

I have also made a few other observation from the preceding passage. I once mentioned that the so-called God Jesus didn't know the season for fig fruits. From the above, he seem to not know that Paul's name is not Saul as he called him Saul twice in that passage. Secondly, here Gentle Jesus is calling people pricks. Similar to how he calls people dogs, swine, pigs, etc. Last, but not necessarily least is that Paul was not Jesus' friend. He was his enemy. He also wrote more than half the number of books of the New Testament. 14 of the 27 books. This idea of Christianity did not come from Jesus. It came from Paul in collusion with Italy and Greece. That explains why it is similar to Mithraism.

Rekindling the Fire

Luke 10:27

The Lord created us to live passionately for Him. In that way, we enjoy the blessings of an intimate relationship with our Creator. But there are other benefits as well. Just as the warmth and beauty of flames draw people toward a fireplace, God uses our passion to draw others to Himself.

So, not just for our sake but also for the sake of others, we must be careful not to let our fervor for God fade. Thankfully, the indwelling Holy Spirit nudges believers who start to head in the wrong direction. If you sense this to be the case, you can take several steps to realign yourself with Him.

First, evaluate where you are spiritually—ask God whether your fire has grown cold. Second, acknowledge any distance you have allowed to separate you from your heavenly Father, and repent. Third, refocus your attention on Jesus; meditate on how He teaches His followers to live. Spend quality time in Scripture daily, asking the Lord to speak to you through His Word. Pray, not by using fancy language but by crying out earnestly and seeking God’s face. Fourth, rely upon the Holy Spirit to guide you back to an intimate and exciting relationship with the Father. Finally, love and serve God by worshipping Him and reaching out to others.

What occupies the majority of your time and attention? Do your thoughts and conversation tend to revolve around worldly topics or the things of God? If your fire for the Lord has dwindled, take the necessary steps today to renew your passion. Living closely with Him is well worth the effort and discipline.

I have been following this topic and it's very informative and interesting however, I have seen the aggressiveness of an individual that reflects the same problems that plagued the world.

keith don't be intimidated by your aggressor.

God bless you.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

 

2 Timothy 1:1-11

Do you feel yourself growing cold toward the Lord? As His children, we can never lose our salvation, but it is possible for our spiritual passion to cool.

Today’s passage reveals that even Timothy experienced a decrease in his excitement for God. That’s why Paul wrote to him, encouraging the young pastor at Ephesus to fan the flame of his faith.

 

Interesting that Paul is here encouraging Timothy to fan the flame of his faith when even Jesus had serious issues with Paul as demonstrated in the following passage from Acts 26:14-15

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

I have also made a few other observation from the preceding passage. I once mentioned that the so-called God Jesus didn't know the season for fig fruits. From the above, he seem to not know that Paul's name is not Saul as he called him Saul twice in that passage. Secondly, here Gentle Jesus is calling people pricks. Similar to how he calls people dogs, swine, pigs, etc. Last, but not necessarily least is that Paul was not Jesus' friend. He was his enemy. He also wrote more than half the number of books of the New Testament. 14 of the 27 books. This idea of Christianity did not come from Jesus. It came from Paul in collusion with Italy and Greece. That explains why it is similar to Mithraism.

Understand the passage you are quoting, this was Saul a zealous Pharisee who intensely persecuted the followers of Jesus, he then became know as Paul and is regarded as one of the greatest apostle. Understand who was Saul before you understand the man Paul. Read the book of Acts.

Imran posted:

I have been following this topic and it's very informative and interesting however, I have seen the aggressiveness of an individual that reflects the same problems that plagued the world.

keith don't be intimidated by your aggressor.

God bless you.

Imran, thanks for the encouragement and most of the all the reminder, I deeply appreciated it.

Imran posted:

I have been following this topic and it's very informative and interesting however, I have seen the aggressiveness of an individual that reflects the same problems that plagued the world.

keith don't be intimidated by your aggressor.

God bless you.

Aren't you aggressive to Chief? By your own standard, doesn't that make you part of the problems that plague the world?

You may never care for it but education is indeed important.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

 

2 Timothy 1:1-11

Do you feel yourself growing cold toward the Lord? As His children, we can never lose our salvation, but it is possible for our spiritual passion to cool.

Today’s passage reveals that even Timothy experienced a decrease in his excitement for God. That’s why Paul wrote to him, encouraging the young pastor at Ephesus to fan the flame of his faith.

 

Interesting that Paul is here encouraging Timothy to fan the flame of his faith when even Jesus had serious issues with Paul as demonstrated in the following passage from Acts 26:14-15

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

I have also made a few other observation from the preceding passage. I once mentioned that the so-called God Jesus didn't know the season for fig fruits. From the above, he seem to not know that Paul's name is not Saul as he called him Saul twice in that passage. Secondly, here Gentle Jesus is calling people pricks. Similar to how he calls people dogs, swine, pigs, etc. Last, but not necessarily least is that Paul was not Jesus' friend. He was his enemy. He also wrote more than half the number of books of the New Testament. 14 of the 27 books. This idea of Christianity did not come from Jesus. It came from Paul in collusion with Italy and Greece. That explains why it is similar to Mithraism.

Understand the passage you are quoting, this was Saul a zealous Pharisee who intensely persecuted the followers of Jesus, he then became know as Paul and is regarded as one of the greatest apostle. Understand who was Saul before you understand the man Paul. Read the book of Acts.

Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul. Some kind of God Jesus is. There are two years old kids who had better knowledge than this Jesus dude,

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

I have been following this topic and it's very informative and interesting however, I have seen the aggressiveness of an individual that reflects the same problems that plagued the world.

keith don't be intimidated by your aggressor.

God bless you.

Aren't you aggressive to Chief? By your own standard, doesn't that make you part of the problems that plague the world?

You may never care for it but education is indeed important.

Since the cap fits you by your admittance and you speaking of education ( Mr know all) you should broaden you knowledge on "education " since the subject of discussion is about God . And you would expect a more somber discussion .

The aggressive tone of your response compare to Keith , speaks for itself especially where religion is concern . 

BTW my aggressive responses  to Chief is calling him out.... and there are others on this forum who did the same like I did . 

 

Perhaps you missed where Keith stated that it was not a sermon. Therefore dissent should not be unexpected. As I mentioned earlier, education is a useful tool. Learn to appreciate it instead of getting bent out of shape because you can't handle the facts.

Imran posted:
 
 

Since the cap fits you by your admittance and you speaking of education ( Mr know all) you should broaden you knowledge on "education " since the subject of discussion is about God . And you would expect a more somber discussion .

The aggressive tone of your response compare to Keith , speaks for itself especially where religion is concern . 

 

 

You obviously don't know how God speaks so I can understand your haplessness. What is this expectation of a more somber discussion? Haven't you read where God promises people that their end would be of fire and brimstones? Haven't you read some of God's own words which I just repost? Here is how God speaks;

Ezekiel 23King James Version (KJV)

23 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.

 

 

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
 
 

Since the cap fits you by your admittance and you speaking of education ( Mr know all) you should broaden you knowledge on "education " since the subject of discussion is about God . And you would expect a more somber discussion .

The aggressive tone of your response compare to Keith , speaks for itself especially where religion is concern . 

 

 

You obviously don't know how God speaks so I can understand your haplessness. What is this expectation of a more somber discussion? Haven't you read where God promises people that their end would be of fire and brimstones? Haven't you read some of God's own words which I just repost? Here is how God speaks;

Ezekiel 23King James Version (KJV)

23 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.

 

 

Dude I know who you are,  you have no idea who I am .

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this . 

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion. 

So chill out. I am done with you. 

Continue the discussion with Keith. 

BTW I am not a Christian . 

Imran posted:

 

 

Dude I know who you are,  you have no idea who I am .

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this . 

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion. 

So chill out. I am done with you. 

Continue the discussion with Keith. 

BTW I am not a Christian . 

Do you really think I care if you know who I am or not or whether I know who you are or not? The only thing that matters here is if you have anything to add to the discussion and so far all you have really done is chase Chief around making some posters say that it looks like you are looking for lar. What happened? God's words posted above too much for you to handle so you ducked out?

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

 

 

Dude I know who you are,  you have no idea who I am .

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this . 

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion. 

So chill out. I am done with you. 

Continue the discussion with Keith. 

BTW I am not a Christian . 

Do you really think I care if you know who I am or not or whether I know who you are or not? The only thing that matters here is if you have anything to add to the discussion and so far all you have really done is chase Chief around making some posters say that it looks like you are looking for lar. What happened? God's words posted above too much for you to handle so you ducked out?

"Ass hole "I don't debate religion but I believe discussion of Gods name should be done in a friendly atmosphere.

but on second thought you are a " FULL A MAN "  

you are not worth my time for discussion.

 

Imran posted:
 

"Ass hole "I don't debate religion but I believe discussion of Gods name should be done in a friendly atmosphere.

but on second thought you are a " FULL A MAN "  

you are not worth my time for discussion.

 

I wasn't even trying to provoke but your reaction above proves that you have no control of your emotions. I don't know why you would delude yourself by thinking that I care to have a discussion with you. I have yet to see something from your statements that interests me. Now gwan suh.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

 

 

Dude I know who you are,  you have no idea who I am .

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this . 

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion. 

So chill out. I am done with you. 

Continue the discussion with Keith. 

BTW I am not a Christian . 

Do you really think I care if you know who I am or not or whether I know who you are or not? The only thing that matters here is if you have anything to add to the discussion and so far all you have really done is chase Chief around making some posters say that it looks like you are looking for lar. What happened? God's words posted above too much for you to handle so you ducked out?

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this .

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion.

ksazma posted:

Maybe it was the mention of lar that got you bazeedee.

Jackass go play with your self 

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this .

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion.

Imran posted:
ksazma posted:

Maybe it was the mention of lar that got you bazeedee.

Jackass go play with your self 

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this .

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion.

Didn't take long for you to have a mental meltdown. Can't handle the heat eh?

The Cost of Running From God

Jonah 4:9-11

You would think a life-threatening sea storm and a few days in a fish’s belly would shake some sense into a person. Yet that wasn’t the case with Jonah. The final paragraphs of his story reveal a vengeful prophet who ostensibly obeyed the Lord but allowed his heart to remain on the run.

Jonah paid a financial price for running from God—his ticket to Tarshish (Jonah 1:3). And any Sunday school student can tell you the physical consequences he endured. But when those events were long past, Jonah still grappled with the spiritual cost of his flight. His peace and joy were gone. In their place was bitterness so strong that he begged God for the relief that death would bring.

As believers, we cannot disobey the Lord without paying a price. Certainly our spiritual life weakens. The skills and abilities God has bestowed on us will atrophy from lack of use while we waste time fleeing. And our actions could also have negative consequences in other areas, such as our family, finances, and health.

Perhaps you have a habit, a plan, or a current course of action that you know defies God’s will. Have you considered the cost? Though Satan may try to convince you otherwise, there are consequences for wrongdoing. The Lord is holy and righteous, and allowing people to get away with sin is simply incompatible with those attributes. What’s more, the price for following your own will is high. Just look at how miserable Jonah was because of the choices he made. The reward for obeying God is much more pleasing.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

 

2 Timothy 1:1-11

Do you feel yourself growing cold toward the Lord? As His children, we can never lose our salvation, but it is possible for our spiritual passion to cool.

Today’s passage reveals that even Timothy experienced a decrease in his excitement for God. That’s why Paul wrote to him, encouraging the young pastor at Ephesus to fan the flame of his faith.

 

Interesting that Paul is here encouraging Timothy to fan the flame of his faith when even Jesus had serious issues with Paul as demonstrated in the following passage from Acts 26:14-15

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

I have also made a few other observation from the preceding passage. I once mentioned that the so-called God Jesus didn't know the season for fig fruits. From the above, he seem to not know that Paul's name is not Saul as he called him Saul twice in that passage. Secondly, here Gentle Jesus is calling people pricks. Similar to how he calls people dogs, swine, pigs, etc. Last, but not necessarily least is that Paul was not Jesus' friend. He was his enemy. He also wrote more than half the number of books of the New Testament. 14 of the 27 books. This idea of Christianity did not come from Jesus. It came from Paul in collusion with Italy and Greece. That explains why it is similar to Mithraism.

Understand the passage you are quoting, this was Saul a zealous Pharisee who intensely persecuted the followers of Jesus, he then became know as Paul and is regarded as one of the greatest apostle. Understand who was Saul before you understand the man Paul. Read the book of Acts.

Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul. Some kind of God Jesus is. There are two years old kids who had better knowledge than this Jesus dude,

I will say it again, read the book of Acts and as an added bonus read Romans. Is it so hard for you to comprehend?

"...I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children" Matthew 11:25.

ksazma posted:

Perhaps you missed where Keith stated that it was not a sermon. Therefore dissent should not be unexpected. As I mentioned earlier, education is a useful tool. Learn to appreciate it instead of getting bent out of shape because you can't handle the facts.

Hey now you were the one that turned this into a sermon You asked and challenged me on several occasions so my response had to get lengthy my friend.

You guys need to behave and respect each other, show some love, it conqueror everything. Have a great day.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
 
 

Since the cap fits you by your admittance and you speaking of education ( Mr know all) you should broaden you knowledge on "education " since the subject of discussion is about God . And you would expect a more somber discussion .

The aggressive tone of your response compare to Keith , speaks for itself especially where religion is concern . 

 

 

You obviously don't know how God speaks so I can understand your haplessness. What is this expectation of a more somber discussion? Haven't you read where God promises people that their end would be of fire and brimstones? Haven't you read some of God's own words which I just repost? Here is how God speaks;

Ezekiel 23King James Version (KJV)

23 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.

 

 

ksazma could you interpret the book of Ezekiel 23 for us? What is it talking about? I am waiting to be enlighten.

How can you with a straight face say that I caused it to turn into a sermon when you spent the first few pages basically just posting sermons from some other person or church. In fact one of my earliest post pointed out to you that what you were doing was actually a sermon. Reality is key.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
ksazma posted:

Maybe it was the mention of lar that got you bazeedee.

Jackass go play with your self 

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this .

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion.

Didn't take long for you to have a mental meltdown. Can't handle the heat eh?

You are a moron. I am not the one to have a emotional breakdown, I will torment your ass for your stupidity.

i simply comment about your tone in responding to Keith .

Keith you are the winner on this discussion 

"Go Keith Go "

and pray for our brother 

 

Dude, you started this topic to propagate your faith. My right is to point out my disagreement. It is your burden to clarify my comments which you have not done. It would be refreshing to have your response in your own words. Just like my comments are in my own words.

ksazma posted:

I have no idea what me reading Acts and Romans have to do with my observation above. Did Jesus said those things, yes or no?

Secondly, who was Jonas vengeful to and how?

The reason is because of statement such as this...

Quote by ksazma: "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"

The response above in quote is the type you will get from an unlearned and misguided individual who is arrogant and shows no willing to learn and understand. No tell me, you are not such a person are you?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I have no idea what me reading Acts and Romans have to do with my observation above. Did Jesus said those things, yes or no?

Secondly, who was Jonas vengeful to and how?

The reason is because of statement such as this...

Quote by ksazma: "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"

The response above in quote is the type you will get from an unlearned and misguided individual who is arrogant and shows no willing to learn and understand. No tell me, you are not such a person are you?

Perhaps you are incorrect in your assessment and it is actually you who is unwilling to accept reality. I am not interested in the smokescreens given by church leaders. That is for people unwilling to be logical. 

ksazma posted:

If you had any sense Imran, you would go into hiding because with every subsequent post you are looking more infringed.

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this .

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion.

ksazma posted:

Any new material Imran? Or are you struggling through your infringed mental condition?

you are a crab with big mouth... you have a personality attitude and I am not the first to tell you this .

People with your mentality and attitude is why Islam has been broadside a hate religion.

ksazma posted:

Did Jesus address Paul as Saul, yes or no?

Simple yes or no answer please.

Answer: Yes, Jesus addressed Saul who is now Paul, as we can clearly see in the passage below.

Act 9:3-5:: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Now your foolish response/question was, as I quote,
======================================== ===== "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"
======================================== =====
Where is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Show me, please

ksazma posted:

How can you with a straight face say that I caused it to turn into a sermon when you spent the first few pages basically just posting sermons from some other person or church. In fact one of my earliest post pointed out to you that what you were doing was actually a sermon. Reality is key.

Would you like to see a sermon length? Why bother, you just don't know what you are talking about. What I have been posting are "daily devotions" from InTouch ministries. Daily devotions is a phrase used to denote the discipline of Bible reading and prayer with which many of us Christians start or end our day. Now a sermon, it's a discourse upon a text of scriptures or we can say it's a lecture. I am sure you sat through many lectures in your college/university days and is it not true it's quite longer than what I post?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Did Jesus address Paul as Saul, yes or no?

Simple yes or no answer please.

Answer: Yes, Jesus addressed Saul who is now Paul, as we can clearly see in the passage below.

Act 9:3-5:: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Now your foolish response/question was, as I quote,
======================================== ===== "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"
======================================== =====
Where is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Show me, please

Why would Jesus call Paul Saul?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

How can you with a straight face say that I caused it to turn into a sermon when you spent the first few pages basically just posting sermons from some other person or church. In fact one of my earliest post pointed out to you that what you were doing was actually a sermon. Reality is key.

Would you like to see a sermon length? Why bother, you just don't know what you are talking about. What I have been posting are "daily devotions" from InTouch ministries. Daily devotions is a phrase used to denote the discipline of Bible reading and prayer with which many of us Christians start or end our day. Now a sermon, it's a discourse upon a text of scriptures or we can say it's a lecture. I am sure you sat through many lectures in your college/university days and is it not true it's quite longer than what I post?

Dude, discourse is dialogue between people not one person talking and everyone else listening. What you are posting are sermons. Where is it written that sermons have to be of a certain length?

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Did Jesus address Paul as Saul, yes or no?

Simple yes or no answer please.

Answer: Yes, Jesus addressed Saul who is now Paul, as we can clearly see in the passage below.

Act 9:3-5:: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Now your foolish response/question was, as I quote,
======================================== ===== "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"
======================================== =====
Where is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Show me, please

Why would Jesus call Paul Saul?

Your question really don't deserve an answer. Jesus called Paul by his Hebrew name, "Saul". At the time of Saul’s conversion, Jesus still addressed him as Saul. Later, Jesus told Ananias to find Saul in Damascus and restore his sight. Acts 9 goes on to describe Saul as increasing in spiritual strength and understanding of Jesus as the Messiah. So, here a shocker for you, it was not Jesus who changed his name on the road to Damascus, Saul’s name was also Paul. The custom of dual names was common in those days. Acts 13:9 describes the apostle as Saul, who was also called Paul. From Acts 13:9 and on, Saul is always referred to in Scripture as Paul.

NOW! answer my question, I posed a question to you that need to be answer. In case you lost it. Your response/question was, as I quote,
======================================== ===== "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"
======================================== =====
Where is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Show me, please

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Did Jesus address Paul as Saul, yes or no?

Simple yes or no answer please.

Answer: Yes, Jesus addressed Saul who is now Paul, as we can clearly see in the passage below.

Act 9:3-5:: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Now your foolish response/question was, as I quote,
======================================== ===== "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"
======================================== =====
Where is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Show me, please

Why would Jesus call Paul Saul?

Just answer my question, I posed a question to you that need to be answer. In case you lost it.

Your response/question was, as I quote,
======================================== ===== "Somehow even after Saul changed his name to Paul so he can hide who he was and deceive others, Jesus still didn't know that the scoundrel Saul had changed his name to Paul"
======================================== =====
Where is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Show me, please

That is my conclusion from the same passage. Now, why did Jesus call Paul Saul?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
 

That is my conclusion from the same passage. Now, why did Jesus call Paul Saul?

Read the post above.....still waiting to see evidence to back up your statement.

Do you ever make independent conclusions or are all your beliefs fed to you. Think dude. Jesus didn't like Paul because Paul was a scoundrel during Jesus' time. Jesus accused Paul of persecuting him. So Paul changed his name and placed himself in that slot that Jesus reserved for Judas. Now every Christian is taking their guidance from Paul and not doing what Jesus advice people to do.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
 

That is my conclusion from the same passage. Now, why did Jesus call Paul Saul?

Read the post above.....still waiting to see evidence to back up your statement.

Do you ever make independent conclusions or are all your beliefs fed to you. Think dude. Jesus didn't like Paul because Paul was a scoundrel during Jesus' time. Jesus accused Paul of persecuting him. So Paul changed his name and placed himself in that slot that Jesus reserved for Judas. Now every Christian is taking their guidance from Paul and not doing what Jesus advice people to do.

Folks take note, this is what happens when people like ksazma choose to nip pick verses out of the Bible to support their ideology. I always stress time and again in my post that you have to read the scriptures or book in its entirety to follow what being said so you can have an understanding of what you choose to nip pick at.

Do you know how foolish your statement is ksazma?

Your quote, "Jesus didn't like Paul because Paul was a scoundrel during Jesus' time"

Where in the scriptures are evidence to support what you are saying? Do you have a phobia of reading? Just pick up the Bible and READ man is it that hard to understand.

In a nutshell Saul a.k.a Paul was persecuting Christians with a zeal thinking what he was doing was right. After his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, the Lord used him with that same zeal and he become one of the greatest apostle of them all.

No Excuses

Jonah 1:1-17

Jonah fled toward Tarshish to escape God’s plan. The prophet mistakenly thought that ignoring a divine command would cause the Lord to withdraw or change it. Instead, God repeatedly and dramatically intervened in Jonah’s life until the man submitted.

Jonah believed he had good reason to be reluctant. The Ninevites were a bloodthirsty people determined to conquer Israel. So walking across the city while crying, “Nineveh will be overthrown” was a frightening prospect. And, as the prophet later revealed, he worried that God would spare the city if the people repented (Jonah 4:2). Jonah wanted them destroyed! Therefore, his reasons for fleeing seemed right in his own eyes. But God was not deterred.

There’s simply no adequate justification for rebellion. It’s not uncommon for people running from God’s will to use this six-word phrase: “I know what God says, but ...” I can tell you with absolute certainty that everything on the other side of “but” is a waste of time. The Lord isn’t interested in excuses or selfish ambitions. He desires only obedience. He has reasons for asking a believer to take a specific action, and His purposes are always good. Consider the amazing benefit to Jonah and his countrymen if their enemy Nineveh became an ally that worshipped the same God.

The Lord doesn’t change His plan to suit our purpose. Rather, He’ll use events, people, and the prompting of the Holy Spirit to move us into the center of His will. For your own benefit, go willingly. You may not like the task God assigns, but if He wants it done, then it must be worthwhile.

Jesus ministry lasted 3 years from when he was 30 to 33 years old. During that time Paul was not part of Jesus' chosen few. Then after Jesus was no longer around Paul said that Jesus met him on the road to Damascus and even though he was not around anymore he still reminded Paul that Paul persecutes him. Now if while and after Jesus was here Paul was still seen as persecuting him, what part of Paul being a scoundrel is so difficult to understand? Perhaps it is necessary to take Paul's side instead of Jesus' because they are not the same side. Isn't everything cited in my comment here from the Bible?

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

So far Keith has done a terrible job answering questions. I am not surprised that you think otherwise. Every question I posed is a direct response to a statement in one of his posts and all my citations are directly from the Bible where I even cited the passages. His responses are a disservice to to Bible but you are too poisoned to make that distinction. If Keith wants to redeem himself, he would need to go back to each question and truthfully answer them in his own words.

ksazma posted:

Jesus ministry lasted 3 years from when he was 30 to 33 years old. During that time Paul was not part of Jesus' chosen few. Then after Jesus was no longer around Paul said that Jesus met him on the road to Damascus and even though he was not around anymore he still reminded Paul that Paul persecutes him. Now if while and after Jesus was here Paul was still seen as persecuting him, what part of Paul being a scoundrel is so difficult to understand? Perhaps it is necessary to take Paul's side instead of Jesus' because they are not the same side. Isn't everything cited in my comment here from the Bible?

Is this where your head cannot wrap around what you are reading? Let me help you out here. Here is Act 9 verse 1- 8, pay attention to what's highlighted.

The Damascus Road: Saul Converted

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Note: As you, ksazma stated and I quote, "Jesus ministry lasted 3 years from when he was 30 to 33 years old. During that time Paul was not part of Jesus' chosen few. Then after Jesus was no longer around Paul said that Jesus met him on the road to Damascus and even though he was not around anymore he still reminded Paul that Paul persecutes him."

Question: In you statement above could we agree that this took place after Jesus resurrection or as you put after His 33 years of life. Where was Jesus then? If he was not physically round Paul...excuse me Saul, where was that light coming from? Who voice was it Saul heard?  The other part of your statement not worth looking into, I just don't want to overwhelm you.

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

So far Keith has done a terrible job answering questions. I am not surprised that you think otherwise. Every question I posed is a direct response to a statement in one of his posts and all my citations are directly from the Bible where I even cited the passages. His responses are a disservice to to Bible but you are too poisoned to make that distinction. If Keith wants to redeem himself, he would need to go back to each question and truthfully answer them in his own words.

ksazma you are failing to understand that if you question me about a verses/scriptures in the Bible, I would do my due diligence to find the answer within the Bible. I don't have to add to what is clearly written there in the Bible.

Therefore when you come up with your nip pick verses from the Bible and try to tarnish it by not READING what you nip picking in it's entirety doesn't warrant my answer in my own works, I point you back to the source of where all answer are.

Now you on the other hand, I am still waiting for you to provide your corroboration in reference to those statement you made......What taking you so long buddy?

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

So far Keith has done a terrible job answering questions. I am not surprised that you think otherwise. Every question I posed is a direct response to a statement in one of his posts and all my citations are directly from the Bible where I even cited the passages. His responses are a disservice to to Bible but you are too poisoned to make that distinction. If Keith wants to redeem himself, he would need to go back to each question and truthfully answer them in his own words.

Carry on dude, have you answer all of Keith questions?

Have a good weekend folks, I'll not be responding until Monday...that give my friend ksazma adequate time to research and find those supportive statement to back his claims up.  

Imran my friend, it's not about who's winning and kicking ass, as God children here on this earth we are to uplift and correct each others in the way which they should walk.

"You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." – Jim Stovall

Lets remember to stay humble, a dignified person accomplishes much, but brags little. They are secure in their standing without needing to make noise, often treating everyone with tremendous respect, regardless of position or faith.

Imran posted:
 

Carry on dude, have you answer all of Keith questions?

I guess you missed where I stated that I don't have any burden here. I pointed to a Biblical passage and give my interpretation of it. Those passages were a direct response to statements in Keith's postings. It is Keith's burden to EXPLAIN why my interpretation is incorrect. Cutting and pasting sermons totally unrelated to it is not a response.

Keith posted:

Have a good weekend folks, I'll not be responding until Monday...that give my friend ksazma adequate time to research and find those supportive statement to back his claims up.  

 

Dude. I already responded to you. Your posts make certain statements which used passages from your Bible to refute. I give my interpretation to those passages. What proof do you need on my interpretation. If I say that Jesus was bigoted and point out that he says that it is not proper to throw the children's pearls to the dogs, what proof are you looking for. You have to say that he did not say that which you refuse to touch. You can't control my interpretation of something just like I can't control your interpretation of something. That is why I don't question your interpretation of anything. All I question is if the passages that I quote are correct or not. Can you point to any quotes I claim are from that Bible that is NOT in the Bible? Go ahead. Show me up. Tell me where I stated that something is in the Bible that is NOT in the Bible. My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that. Can you point to any passage that claimed are from the Bible and say that it is not in the Bible?

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Good morning Brother Keith. And what makes you think that you are interpreting the bible the correct way? How many times the bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted? Who is to say the facts of the bible or any religious book are true? I have seen documentaries where events quoted in the bible are attributed to god when in fact they were natural phenomena..like parting of the Red Sea(wind) and Sodom and Gomorrah(meteorite disintegrating after it hit the French Alps). Who knows!

 

The Power of Love

Luke 15:11-32

In Jesus’ day, three Greek words were used to express “love”—eros (physical intimacy), philia (friendship), and agape (fruit produced by the Holy Spirit, as listed in Galatians 5:22-23). Our heavenly Father cares for us with agape love, and to bring us into a right relationship with Him, He sacrificed His Son (1 John 4:10).

The parable of the prodigal son gives us a good example of this type of love. Agape is evident in our life when we:

Respond calmly to difficulties. To the son’s untimely demand for his share of the inheritance, the father didn’t reply with angry words about ungrateful children. Though the prodigal’s attitude must have caused pain, the man held his tongue and did not retaliate. In calmness, he could think more clearly and chose to love (1 Corinthians 13:4-5).

Sacrifice without complaint. Though he knew his son was committed to a ruinous course, the father quietly fulfilled the request. In doing so, he chose the way of love, directing his efforts towards preserving their relationship.

Wait patiently. Out of deep affection, the father let his son leave and stay away. What heartache the man must have felt! Yet he remained hopeful and waited for the young man to recognize that sin cannot deliver what it has promised. This patient response is possible only through the power of agape love (1 Corinthians 13:4).

The Holy Spirit’s work in our life empowers us to show selfless and sacrificial devotion to the development of another person. In that way, we become people who respond calmly, patiently, and without complaint. Which kind of emotion do you offer to others—human or divine?

Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Dude, did I not show where (according to Paul) Jesus way after he was no longer on earth told Paul that he, Paul was persecuting Jesus. You are free to acknowledge it or not but you are not free to state that I didn't show you it. Didn't Jesus say that the only way to heaven is by following Moses' Commandments? Yet Paul says that the commandments are not the way. I interpret that as trickery by Paul. You don't have to. But you cannot say truthfully that those are not in the Bible.

I am not contesting your interpretation of the passages. I am strictly asking you to acknowledge that they exist. I don't complain that you use John 10:30 (I and the Father are one) to interpret that Jesus is God. Similarly, I should be able to interpret Mark 10:18 (Why call me good. There is ONLY ONE who is good. That is God) as Jesus is NOT God. I am just surprised that you don't use the same barometer for Mark 10:18 as you do for John 10:30. Notice that Jesus mentioned God in Mark 10:18 and not Father.

If Jesus said that Paul was persecuting him, then you have to ask yourself on question. Either Jesus is lying or Paul is.

skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Good morning Brother Keith. And what makes you think that you are interpreting the bible the correct way? How many times the bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted? Who is to say the facts of the bible or any religious book are true? I have seen documentaries where events quoted in the bible are attributed to god when in fact they were natural phenomena..like parting of the Red Sea(wind) and Sodom and Gomorrah(meteorite disintegrating after it hit the French Alps). Who knows!

 

skeldon_man that's your problem you watch too many documentaries, why not search out the truth for yourself, read the bible it's going to set you free.

This is a common misconception. Some people think that the Bible was written in one language, translated to another language, then translated into yet another and so on until it was finally translated into the English. 

Here is how eloquently Matt Slick put it, "The complaint is that since it was rewritten so many times in different languages throughout history, it must have become corrupted. The "telephone" analogy is often used as an illustration.  It goes like this. One person tells another person a sentence who then tells another person, who tells yet another, and so on and so on until the last person hears a sentence that has little or nothing to do with the original one. The only problem with this analogy is that it doesn't fit the Bible at all.

The fact is that the Bible has not been rewritten. Take the New Testament, for example. The disciples of Jesus wrote the New Testament in Greek; and though we do not have the original documents, we do have around 6,000 copies of the Greek manuscripts that were made very close to the time of the originals. These various manuscripts, or copies, agree with each other to almost 100 percent accuracy. Statistically, the New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. That means that there is only 1/2 of 1% of all the copies that do not agree with each other perfectly.  But, if you take that 1/2 of 1% and examine it, you find that the majority of the "problems" are nothing more than spelling errors and very minor word alterations. For example, instead of saying Jesus, a variation might be "Jesus Christ." So the actual amount of textual variation of any concern is extremely low. Therefore, we can say that we have a remarkably accurate compilation of the original documents.

So when we translate the Bible, we do not translate from a translation of a translation of a translation. We translate from the original language into our language. It is a one-step process and not a series of steps that can lead to corruption. It is one translation step from the original to the English or to whatever language in which a person needs to read. So we translate into Spanish from the same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Likewise we translate into the German from those same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as well. This is how it is done for each and every language into which we translate the Bible. We do not translate from the original languages to the English, to the Spanish, and then to the German. It is from the original languages to the English or into the Spanish or into the German. Therefore, the translations are very accurate and trustworthy regarding what the Bible originally said."

skeldon_man, I how that helps clear up your misconception of the bible. Read the Bible you will get revelation and be enlighten.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Dude, did I not show where (according to Paul) Jesus way after he was no longer on earth told Paul that he, Paul was persecuting Jesus.

Answer: The voice asks, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Who was Saul persecuting? Is this where you cannot understand? Saul was persecuting the disciples/followers of Jesus, where it says, "persecute me", Jesus identifies with his disciples, just as how is his body was broken for us, the 40 lashes, being crucified that he went through.
==============================================

You are free to acknowledge it or not but you are not free to state that I didn't show you it. Didn't Jesus say that the only way to heaven is by following Moses'Commandments?

Answer: NO!, if you wish to dispute that show me where (Book, Chapter and scriptures) in the Bible Jesus stated that. Jesus is the only way to heaven. Such an exclusive statement may grate on the postmodern ear, but it is true nonetheless. The Bible teaches that there is no other way to salvation than through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself says in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.", See John 14:1-10 below for REFERENCE. He is not a way, as in one of many; He is the way, as in the one and only. No one, regardless of reputation, achievement, special knowledge, or personal holiness, can come to God the Father except through Jesus.

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
============================================== 

Yet Paul says that the commandments are not the way. I interpret that as trickery by Paul. You don't have to. But you cannot say truthfully that those are not in the Bible.

Answer: References please, where in the Bible and I mean you need to provide me with the book, chapter and scripture, let me narrow you search for you. Paul wrote the following books/letters...oops lets stick with books don't intend to confuse you.

Galatians 
1 and 2 Thessalonians
1 and 2 Corinthians and Romans
Ephesians, Philemon, Colossians, and Philippians
1 and 2 Timothy and Titus
It's believe he might have wrote Hebrew but not sure

so here your starting point. 
============================================== 

I am not contesting your interpretation of the passages. I am strictly asking you to acknowledge that they exist. I don't complain that you use John 10:30 (I and the Father are one) to interpret that Jesus is God. Similarly, I should be able to interpret Mark 10:18 (Why call me good. There is ONLY ONE who is good. That is God) as Jesus is NOT God. I am just surprised that you don't use the same barometer for Mark 10:18 as you do for John 10:30. Notice that Jesus mentioned God in Mark 10:18 and not Father.

Answer: Mark 10:15-20

15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

When the "rich young ruler" addressed Jesus as "Good Teacher," the Lord posed this thought-provoking question: "Why do you call me good? No one is good except One, even God", as we see above in  (Mark. 10:17-18). In making this response, was Christ denying his divine nature? No; actually, the gist of his argument was just the opposite.

The young man carelessly had used the word "good," as though Jesus was merely a good teacher in much the same way that certain Jewish teachers had distinguished themselves as effective teachers, though apparently the expression "Good Teacher" was not formally used of the Jewish teachers.
==============================================

If Jesus said that Paul was persecuting him, then you have to ask yourself on question. Either Jesus is lying or Paul is.

Answer: Read my first answer to your question.

PS: Waiting to see your reference to the above mention. Wishing you and other a bless week.

Keith posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

Good morning Brother Keith. And what makes you think that you are interpreting the bible the correct way? How many times the bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted? Who is to say the facts of the bible or any religious book are true? I have seen documentaries where events quoted in the bible are attributed to god when in fact they were natural phenomena..like parting of the Red Sea(wind) and Sodom and Gomorrah(meteorite disintegrating after it hit the French Alps). Who knows!

 

skeldon_man that's your problem you watch too many documentaries, why not search out the truth for yourself, read the bible it's going to set you free.

This is a common misconception. Some people think that the Bible was written in one language, translated to another language, then translated into yet another and so on until it was finally translated into the English. 

Here is how eloquently Matt Slick put it, "The complaint is that since it was rewritten so many times in different languages throughout history, it must have become corrupted. The "telephone" analogy is often used as an illustration.  It goes like this. One person tells another person a sentence who then tells another person, who tells yet another, and so on and so on until the last person hears a sentence that has little or nothing to do with the original one. The only problem with this analogy is that it doesn't fit the Bible at all.

The fact is that the Bible has not been rewritten. Take the New Testament, for example. The disciples of Jesus wrote the New Testament in Greek; and though we do not have the original documents, we do have around 6,000 copies of the Greek manuscripts that were made very close to the time of the originals. These various manuscripts, or copies, agree with each other to almost 100 percent accuracy. Statistically, the New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. That means that there is only 1/2 of 1% of all the copies that do not agree with each other perfectly.  But, if you take that 1/2 of 1% and examine it, you find that the majority of the "problems" are nothing more than spelling errors and very minor word alterations. For example, instead of saying Jesus, a variation might be "Jesus Christ." So the actual amount of textual variation of any concern is extremely low. Therefore, we can say that we have a remarkably accurate compilation of the original documents.

So when we translate the Bible, we do not translate from a translation of a translation of a translation. We translate from the original language into our language. It is a one-step process and not a series of steps that can lead to corruption. It is one translation step from the original to the English or to whatever language in which a person needs to read. So we translate into Spanish from the same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Likewise we translate into the German from those same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as well. This is how it is done for each and every language into which we translate the Bible. We do not translate from the original languages to the English, to the Spanish, and then to the German. It is from the original languages to the English or into the Spanish or into the German. Therefore, the translations are very accurate and trustworthy regarding what the Bible originally said."

skeldon_man, I how that helps clear up your misconception of the bible. Read the Bible you will get revelation and be enlighten.

Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

skeldon_man posted:
Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

In case you don't understand my reasoning for cut and paste, it's to present to you what has been said clearly in the Bible and also I don't what to be misquoting the Bible. All the answers are there in the Bible, I don't need to rely on my own thought process if it's already there in the Word of God.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

I ask your opinion since you have made several quote from the Quran on this forum.

You debating a man about his religious value. What is yours in Islam .

 

Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

I ask your opinion since you have made several quote from the Quran on this forum.

You debating a man about his religious value. What is yours in Islam .

 

I am not debating Keith because of his religious values. I am pointing out inconsistencies in the Bible and statements he posted about it. It being the Bible. I have no problem with what people choose to believe. However, when Keith make statements like "this is the absolute truth" then he has stepped away from stating what he believes and making a statement that we all should accept as true.

i haven't introduced Islam into this topic because I doubt Keith care to discuss and I have no intention to either. If you wish you can have a conversation with yourself about it.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

I ask your opinion since you have made several quote from the Quran on this forum.

You debating a man about his religious value. What is yours in Islam .

 

I am not debating Keith because of his religious values. I am pointing out inconsistencies in the Bible and statements he posted about it. It being the Bible. I have no problem with what people choose to believe. However, when Keith make statements like "this is the absolute truth" then he has stepped away from stating what he believes and making a statement that we all should accept as true.

i haven't introduced Islam into this topic because I doubt Keith care to discuss and I have no intention to either. If you wish you can have a conversation with yourself about it.

And the inconsistencies you thought you find were not inconsistencies. I have provided references to contest your thought. 

There are outlandish statements you made about the Bible which are too many to mention and you cannot show me to this date evidence of where in the Bible it's. There were few scriptures you challenged me on due to your misunderstanding and again and again I urge you to read the scriptures in its entirety, nip picking will cause you look foolish especially on a subject you have little understanding of.

Showing Agape Love

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

Divine love empowers us to respond calmly to difficulties, demonstrate patience in seasons of waiting, and sacrifice without complaint. We offer God’s love when we can:

Forgive others. The son wasted his money in riotous living and discovered both the empty promises and destructive quality of sin. Upon the boy’s return, his father forgave him completely. Love made it possible to wipe away the past (Ps. 103:12).

Act generously. The son, having just fed pigs, arrived at his father’s estate with few expectations. The forgiving dad greeted him most warmly and dressed him in the finest garments. Godly love, which keeps no record of wrongs, enabled the father to show generosity.

Serve joyfully. What a celebration the father had upon the prodigal’s return! His joy in his lost son’s homecoming overflowed to others. Love expresses itself in willing service.

Restore those who fall. The one who both abandoned his father and squandered his inheritance was again given full rights as a son.

When we mess up, our heavenly Father patiently waits for us to turn back to Him. He accepts our repentance, rejoices in our return, and restores intimacy with Him. The elder brother in this parable missed the point because of his self-righteous attitude (1 John 1:8). He didn’t recognize his mistakes or the many times his father had shown him love and forgiveness.

God calls us to a lifestyle of agape love. To whom could you extend the divine love that forgives, restores, and serves with generosity and joy?

Dude. You claimed that you are not a priest nor a Bible scholar but rather someone who rely on other peoples' writings. There are real Bible scholars who support my citations re the inconsistencies in the Bible. You have not provided anything to dispute my arguments. If anything, the passages you cited solidify my argument because they contradict the ones I cited which is what I have been arguing from some of my earliest posts to you. I was going to respond in detail but my internet browser was acting up last night. I will get back to it but for now I will say that your responses were inadequate.

Keith posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

In case you don't understand my reasoning for cut and paste, it's to present to you what has been said clearly in the Bible and also I don't what to be misquoting the Bible. All the answers are there in the Bible, I don't need to rely on my own thought process if it's already there in the Word of God.

Very sad indeed. Keith, you are like sheep following sheep. All the answers are in the bible for the Christians(lazy non thinkers)! I am glad my parents were not Christians. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

In case you don't understand my reasoning for cut and paste, it's to present to you what has been said clearly in the Bible and also I don't what to be misquoting the Bible. All the answers are there in the Bible, I don't need to rely on my own thought process if it's already there in the Word of God.

Very sad indeed. Keith, you are like sheep following sheep. All the answers are in the bible for the Christians(lazy non thinkers)! I am glad my parents were not Christians. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Oh my here we go, happy to be a sheep following a sheep leading by our good shepherd. I am glad it was not an ass I am following 

Here is what the word of God said, so pay attention as to why I make the statement highlighted above. Why add to the Elohim, El Elyon, El Shaddai and Omniscience God words?

Read:

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Revelation 22:18-19 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


You think I would disobey and allow what has been written to come upon me? No!, I choose to be obedient to His word/command.

ksazma posted:

Dude. You claimed that you are not a priest nor a Bible scholar but rather someone who rely on other peoples' writings. There are real Bible scholars who support my citations re the inconsistencies in the Bible. You have not provided anything to dispute my arguments. If anything, the passages you cited solidify my argument because they contradict the ones I cited which is what I have been arguing from some of my earliest posts to you. I was going to respond in detail but my internet browser was acting up last night. I will get back to it but for now I will say that your responses were inadequate.

Absolutely right I'm not a Bible teacher nor a scholar. If you think your argument are not being disputed then you are not reading the reply post or has a failure to comprehend but then again it's the nature of who you are isn't it? When present with the fact you fold and divert. Go back and look at your pattern of what you publish in this thread.

Day one since you came on my post you have been looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily WITHOUT even READING the Bible chapter/scriptures in its entirety, you have failed miserable with your intent.

I have wasted valuable times in the morning answering your misguided questions. Remember I didn't come here attacking anyone, I was exercising my first amendment. I think it's time you start answering a few questions concerning your creed but not at this minute, in due time.

How We Respond to a Storm

2 Chronicles 20:12

If you’ve ever experienced a storm when around other people, you know not everyone responds the same way.

Picture a backyard party where all the guests are having fun, but then the wind picks up. The temperature drops, the sky darkens, and the scent of rain is in the air. Everyone scrambles to grab something and head indoors. Just as the last person rushes in with the potato salad, the skies let go. Inside, people gather into clusters. One group stands at the window, oohing and aahing at the thunder and lightning outside. On the couch, others hug each other or cover their ears; a few jump and shudder with every boom. Another group, chatting away, seems completely oblivious to the weather. Isn’t this a picture of how people react differently to the storms of life?

When it comes to the upheavals we face, our varied responses can have a significant impact down the road. Some people respond in a healthy way and emerge stronger, while others are broken by the challenge.

What accounts for the difference in our response is our view of God. If we see Him as our loving heavenly Father, we’ll understand He has the best possible plan for our life, even if the path is, for a time, through troubled waters. But if we consider Him an obstruction to the goals we’ve set for ourselves, we could miss out on the blessings He has in mind for us.

Storms are unavoidable in life. When one comes your way, the wisest thing you can do is to cry out to Jesus. Won’t you choose to respond with an attitude of trust in the Lord and submission to His way?

-In Touch Ministries-

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

How to Avoid an Empty Life

Psalm 16:11

In public, most people appear happy and confident. But beneath the surface, many feel empty. In fact, it is possible to be in a large crowd and yet still feel alone.

A lot of men and women see no meaning or purpose in life. Attempting to overcome the emptiness, some become busy, others turn to drugs or alcohol, and still others strive for more money, power, or love. Though pleasure exists for them, it is usually short-lived.

There’s a reason why life can feel empty: Man was created with a yearning that God alone is able to satisfy. Individuals cannot be fulfilled until they experience His transforming and unconditional love. Jesus said, “I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly” (John 10:10). In other words, the Lord wants us to feel complete, which can happen only through a relationship with Him.

However, even a person who is saved can feel empty. This could result from disobedience: A slight detour in one’s walk with the Lord can become a way of life, depriving a believer of deep satisfaction. It’s also possible for Christians to live according to God’s Word without fully surrendering their desires to Him. For example, many believers still try to fill up their own void with achievements, wealth, or relationships. When aspirations like these are given higher priority than the Lord, they are a form of idolatry.

We can live a full life only when we seek God above all else. Pray for His guidance as you search your heart. Confess any sin, and ask God to fill your life as only He can do.

-In Touch Ministries-

From Emptiness to Fulfillment

John 4:3-18

As we saw in yesterday’s devotion, countless people go through life feeling empty, which is contrary to God’s design. The account of the Samaritan woman in John 4 teaches several important points about fulfillment.

Filling our emptiness is important to the Lord. As they journeyed, Jewish people bypassed Samaria because of their intense hatred for its inhabitants. Yet Jesus, a Jew, chose to travel there because He knew a hurting Samaritan was ready to hear about the Father’s love.

Our attempts at happiness often leave us feeling hopeless. The woman at the well had been wed five times, but all of her marriages had failed. Whether or not the problems were her fault, she was left without the love she sought. Most likely, each broken relationship left her feeling lonelier than before.

God knows our pain. When the woman admitted she didn’t presently have a husband, Jesus revealed that He already knew she and the man living with her were not married. By demonstrating His awareness of her hurt and pursuit of fulfillment, He helped the woman recognize her need for a Savior.

Jesus can satisfy our yearnings. Once the Samaritan woman realized what was missing, Jesus revealed how to live a full life: “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst” (John 4:13-14).

Do you ever feel like the Samaritan woman—dissatisfied with life and thirsty for love and fulfillment? Surrender to God, and allow His love to flow through you. Only then will you experience abundant life.

-In Touch Ministries-

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

That's a Bitch Slap. This guy is a hypocrite.

Imran posted:
Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

That's a Bitch Slap. This guy is a hypocrite.

Only a fool would consider that a bitch slap but that is who you are right.

Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

Suddenly you discover the meaning of the word contradiction? Have you seen me starting a topic to propagate any faith? Do you see me posting sermons for anyone? I deal with subjects as they present themselves. Since you presented your Bible, it is your burden to represent it and respond to questions/comments that others have about it

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

Suddenly you discover the meaning of the word contradiction? Have you seen me starting a topic to propagate any faith? Do you see me posting sermons for anyone? I deal with subjects as they present themselves. Since you presented your Bible, it is your burden to represent it and respond to questions/comments that others have about it

Don't let us get off topic now, pay attention to the answers provided to your proposed questions which I have answered in great details. Also I am expecting you to answer the ones I raised. Focus on that.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

Extremely weak response. Again not answering the question. See what I meant when I states that you haven't answered the questions.

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

 

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

“Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross.

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer.

 

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?                                 

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

Extremely weak response. Again not answering the question. See what I meant when I states that you haven't answered the questions.

Answer: Yes/No was Ishmael present when God told Abraham "take thy only son"? Answer it might set you free. I am asking you a question to help you answer your own question. ��

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

Answer: Explain the verses you quote us, please. When you do, then I will answer.

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

“Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Answer Jesus was talking to a scribe who wished to follow Jesus and become a disciple. In fact, the scribe boasted, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" (Matthew 8:19–20; Luke 9:57–58).

These same passages mention two others who had similar discussions with Jesus. In each case, Jesus made the point that there is a cost to following Him. The scribe who said he wanted to follow Jesus wherever He went was not considering the lifestyle Jesus led. Our Lord was functionally homeless; He and His disciples stayed in the homes of those who would take them in (see Luke 10:6–8). The scribes were among the wealthier citizens. It was as if Jesus were saying, "Are you sure you want to be homeless with Me?" Even the animals have a place to stay foxes have holes and the birds have nests—but Jesus literally had “nowhere to lay his head." He wanted the scribe to truly count the cost of what he was proposing. It is always wise to count the cost (Luke 14:28).

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross.

Answer: You lack understanding of what you care not to read. I will not wast time on this again. 

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer.

Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?                                 

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

Extremely weak response. Again not answering the question. See what I meant when I states that you haven't answered the questions.

Answer: Yes/No was Ishmael present when God told Abraham "take thy only son"? Answer it might set you free. I am asking you a question to help you answer your own question. ��

Present as in the same room, house, city, country? Does a person loses their status as a man's son if they are not in the same room, house, city, country? That is as silly an argument as any. Who dreamed up this doozie?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
 

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

 

Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

Answer: Explain the verses you quote us, please. When you do, then I will answer.

 

What is there to explain? In the passage Jesus scoffed at a woman because she was not Jewish. His disciples pleaded with him because they were afraid that she will bring bad omen on them.
Then he got even more belligerent with his comment about giving the children's bread and giving it to dogs. He called her a dog. I cited this to demonstrate his ill manners and that is exactly what it demonstrated.
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

 

“Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

Answer Jesus was talking to a scribe who wished to follow Jesus and become a disciple. In fact, the scribe boasted, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" (Matthew 8:19–20; Luke 9:57–58).

These same passages mention two others who had similar discussions with Jesus. In each case, Jesus made the point that there is a cost to following Him. The scribe who said he wanted to follow Jesus wherever He went was not considering the lifestyle Jesus led. Our Lord was functionally homeless; He and His disciples stayed in the homes of those who would take them in (see Luke 10:6–8). The scribes were among the wealthier citizens. It was as if Jesus were saying, "Are you sure you want to be homeless with Me?" Even the animals have a place to stay foxes have holes and the birds have nests—but Jesus literally had “nowhere to lay his head." He wanted the scribe to truly count the cost of what he was proposing. It is always wise to count the cost (Luke 14:28).

 

 

Now you try to connect Jesus' comment with what preceded and followed it and see if the only explanation is Jesus' self absorption. Like how trump is.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

 

So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross.

Answer: You lack understanding of what you care not to read. I will not wast time on this again.

It may disappoint you but I don't lack understanding of what I read at all. What I do have is the unwillingness to follow anything blindly. Any God with the imperfections and deficiencies and plain old silliness of Jesus isn't worth one's time or effort.

 

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer.

Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?

  

God is talking about two whoring sisters who like their nipples and vaginas tickled and pressed. Who also like their men to have penises as large as horses with huge ejaculations. What is your opinion?

Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

ksazma posted: "4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?"

Keith posted: "Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18."

ksazma quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

Keith responed: "The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus."

ksazma posted: "So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross."

Keith posted: "Answer: You lack understanding of what you care not to read. I will not wast time on this again."

ksazma posted: "It may disappoint you but I don't lack understanding of what I read at all. What I do have is the unwillingness to follow anything blindly. Any God with the imperfections and deficiencies and plain old silliness of Jesus isn't worth one's time or effort."

Answer: No it doesn't disappoint me at all especially when there is a consistance of it. In reference to following blindly, you seem to be brining it up quit often and I could make the same claim about you as well. Trust me you really don't want to hit on that talking point right now, we have other things to clear up first. We will get to it eventually.

skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

you tell them professor,there is no more any meteorite the ppp thief them all

skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

No need for me to waste time responding to you therefore run along and  talk to Stephen Hawkins and the others.

ksazma posted: "Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"


Keith posted: "Answer: Explain the verses you quote us, please. When you do, then I will answer."

ksazma posted: "What is there to explain? In the passage Jesus scoffed at a woman because she was not Jewish. His disciples pleaded with him because they were afraid that she will bring bad omen on them.

Then he got even more belligerent with his comment about giving the children's bread and giving it to dogs. He called her a dog. I cited this to demonstrate his ill manners and that is exactly what it demonstrated."

Answer: In the above mention scripture you quoted lets summarize a bit for those who are looking on, Jesus encounter this Canaanite woman who begs Him to cure her daughter. Jesus initially refuses her request by saying, "It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs" (Matthew 15:26). Was that an insult? No, Jesus is creating a metaphor meant to explain the priorities of His ministry. He is also teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Jews during Jesus’ day sometimes referred to Gentiles, Gentiles are you and me, those who are not Jews, as dogs. Us  Non-Jews were considered so unspiritual that even being in their presence could make a person ceremonially unclean, read John 18:28 just don't take my word for it. Much of Jesus’ ministry, however, involved turning expectations and prejudices on their heads you will find that in Matthew 11:19; John 4:9–10 to support my statement. According to Matthew’s narrative, Jesus left Israel and went into Tyre and Sidon, which was Gentile territory. When the Canaanite woman approached and repeatedly asked for healing, the disciples were annoyed, and asked Jesus to send her away, so clearly we see the frustration by the disciples and not bad omen as my friend ksazma you put it.

At this point, Jesus explained His current ministry in a way that both the woman and the watching disciples could understand. At that time, His duty was to the people of Israel, not to the Gentiles (Matthew 15:24). Recklessly taking His attention from Israel, in violation of His mission, would be like a father taking food from his children in order to throw it to their pets (Matthews 15:26).

What important here for you to know ksazma is that Jesus frequently tested people to prove their intentions, often through response questions or challenges, in John 4:16–18; and 4:50–53. His response to the Canaanite woman is similar. In testing her, Jesus declined her request and explained that she had no legitimate expectation of His help. The woman, however, lived out the principle Jesus Himself taught in the parable of the persistent widow in Luke 18:1–8. Her response proved that she understood fully what Jesus was saying, yet had enough conviction to ask anyway in Matthew 15:27. Jesus acknowledged her faith calling it "great" and granted her request in Matthew 15:28 as show below.

Matthew 15:27-28: "27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Keith posted:

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Yuh right bai. Jesus didn't call the woman a dog. Maybe it is indeed a language thing. English was not supposed to be so difficult. Maybe it is not the language but rather the holy spirit.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"

Keith posted:

 

ksazma posted: "It may disappoint you but I don't lack understanding of what I read at all. What I do have is the unwillingness to follow anything blindly. Any God with the imperfections and deficiencies and plain old silliness of Jesus isn't worth one's time or effort."

Answer: No it doesn't disappoint me at all especially when there is a consistance of it. In reference to following blindly, you seem to be brining it up quit often and I could make the same claim about you as well. Trust me you really don't want to hit on that talking point right now, we have other things to clear up first. We will get to it eventually.

The consistency is how many instances throughout the New Testament, Jesus proves he has no clue what is going on. Isn't God supposed to be All Knowing?

warrior posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

you tell them professor,there is no more any meteorite the ppp thief them all

Is a good thing the PPP stole dem meteorites Warria or else dem Coalition would have destroyed them. One can always recover stolen stuff. Destroyed stuff is gone fuh channa.

ksazma posted: "5. Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are."

Keith posted: "Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read."

ksazma posted: "Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer."

Keith posted: "Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?"

ksazma posted: "God is talking about two whoring sisters who like their nipples and vaginas tickled and pressed. Who also like their men to have penises as large as horses with huge ejaculations. What is your opinion?"

Answer: Now ksazma here is why I have been saying again and again that you read yet don't understanding what yo are reading.

Allow me to post the entire Chapter of Ezekiel 23 so others can have a understanding of what we are discussing here and there I will explain after in details.

Ezekiel 23: "1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God."

Explanation: Aholah and Aholibah are symbolic names for the kingdom of Israel, the ten tribes in the north and the kingdom of Judah, the two tribes in the south. Ezekiel 23 describes the spiritual infidelity of Israel and Judah, picturing them as two sisters.

Ezekiel refers to Aholah and Aholibah and identifies them as Samaria the capital of Israel and Jerusalem the capital of Judah in Ezekiel 23:4. The sisters are "daughters of the same mother" (verse 2) because Israel and Judah were originally one nation, Israel. The meanings of two names have special significance. Aholah means "her own tent or tabernacle", Samaria had a separate worship-place apart from the temple in Jerusalem. Aholibah means "my tabernacle is in her" this represents Jerusalem, where God did establish worship.

Both Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) engaged in prostitution, spiritual infidelity in Egypt in their youth (Ezekiel 23:3). The older sister, Aholah (Israel), later played the harlot with the Assyrians in verses 5–8. That is, Samaria and Israel had sought fulfillment and security by aligning themselves with idolatrous Assyria. The punishment of Aholah fit her crime, "Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword" in verses 9–10. Israel was conquered and her people deported to Assyria, you will find reference to this in 2 Kings 17. The Assyrians were the instruments God used to inflict His judgments upon Israel.

In Ezekiel 23:11–21, Ezekiel portrays the younger sister, Aholibah (Judah), as even more corrupt and promiscuous than Aholah (Israel). Rather than learning from her sister’s mistakes, Aholibah craved after the Babylonian idols and then the Chaldean lifestyle, committing spiritual prostitution with the Babylonians. Because of Jerusalem’s and Judah’s idolatries God alienated Himself from them and allowed them, too, to be taken into captivity: "I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards. I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury" as stated in verses 24–25. Aholibah (Judah) had learned nothing from her sister’s (Israel) and Judah finally fell to Babylon.

The rest of Ezekiel 23 outlines the details of the two nations’ spiritual infidelity and the punishment they received from God. "Your enemies will deal with you in hatred and take away everything you have worked for. They will leave you stark naked, and the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your lewdness and promiscuity have brought this on you, because you lusted after the nations and defiled yourself with their idols", that's in verses 29–30. Among the detestable practices committed by Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) were sacrificing their children to idols and profaning the sanctuary of God in verses 37–38.

The lesson of Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) is that God is a jealous God who punishes those who turn their backs on Him and chase after idols. Though God is patient and long-suffering, eventually His judgment falls on the unfaithful. We reap what we sow according to Galatians 6:7. "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution" (Ezekiel 23:35).

So my friend ksazma Ezekiel 23 is talking about Israel and Judah, I know you just couldn't understand what you were reading even though it clearly said it in the first few verses in Ezekiel 23:4.

"
And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah."

A bit of history for you here, Samaria was an ancient city in the land of Israel and Jerusalem is a city located on a plateau in the Judean mountains. Make sure you understand what you are reading before challenging me my friend.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Yuh right bai. Jesus didn't call the woman a dog. Maybe it is indeed a language thing. English was not supposed to be so difficult. Maybe it is not the language but rather the holy spirit.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"


The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly.

Keith posted:

ksazma posted: "5. Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are."

Keith posted: "Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read."

ksazma posted: "Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer."

Keith posted: "Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?"

ksazma posted: "God is talking about two whoring sisters who like their nipples and vaginas tickled and pressed. Who also like their men to have penises as large as horses with huge ejaculations. What is your opinion?"

Answer: Now ksazma here is why I have been saying again and again that you read yet don't understanding what yo are reading.

Allow me to post the entire Chapter of Ezekiel 23 so others can have a understanding of what we are discussing here and there I will explain after in details.

Ezekiel 23: "1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God."

Explanation: Aholah and Aholibah are symbolic names for the kingdom of Israel, the ten tribes in the north and the kingdom of Judah, the two tribes in the south. Ezekiel 23 describes the spiritual infidelity of Israel and Judah, picturing them as two sisters.

Ezekiel refers to Aholah and Aholibah and identifies them as Samaria the capital of Israel and Jerusalem the capital of Judah in Ezekiel 23:4. The sisters are "daughters of the same mother" (verse 2) because Israel and Judah were originally one nation, Israel. The meanings of two names have special significance. Aholah means "her own tent or tabernacle", Samaria had a separate worship-place apart from the temple in Jerusalem. Aholibah means "my tabernacle is in her" this represents Jerusalem, where God did establish worship.

Both Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) engaged in prostitution, spiritual infidelity in Egypt in their youth (Ezekiel 23:3). The older sister, Aholah (Israel), later played the harlot with the Assyrians in verses 5–8. That is, Samaria and Israel had sought fulfillment and security by aligning themselves with idolatrous Assyria. The punishment of Aholah fit her crime, "Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword" in verses 9–10. Israel was conquered and her people deported to Assyria, you will find reference to this in 2 Kings 17. The Assyrians were the instruments God used to inflict His judgments upon Israel.

In Ezekiel 23:11–21, Ezekiel portrays the younger sister, Aholibah (Judah), as even more corrupt and promiscuous than Aholah (Israel). Rather than learning from her sister’s mistakes, Aholibah craved after the Babylonian idols and then the Chaldean lifestyle, committing spiritual prostitution with the Babylonians. Because of Jerusalem’s and Judah’s idolatries God alienated Himself from them and allowed them, too, to be taken into captivity: "I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards. I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury" as stated in verses 24–25. Aholibah (Judah) had learned nothing from her sister’s (Israel) and Judah finally fell to Babylon.

The rest of Ezekiel 23 outlines the details of the two nations’ spiritual infidelity and the punishment they received from God. "Your enemies will deal with you in hatred and take away everything you have worked for. They will leave you stark naked, and the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your lewdness and promiscuity have brought this on you, because you lusted after the nations and defiled yourself with their idols", that's in verses 29–30. Among the detestable practices committed by Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) were sacrificing their children to idols and profaning the sanctuary of God in verses 37–38.

The lesson of Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) is that God is a jealous God who punishes those who turn their backs on Him and chase after idols. Though God is patient and long-suffering, eventually His judgment falls on the unfaithful. We reap what we sow according to Galatians 6:7. "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution" (Ezekiel 23:35).

So my friend ksazma Ezekiel 23 is talking about Israel and Judah, I know you just couldn't understand what you were reading even though it clearly said it in the first few verses in Ezekiel 23:4.

"
And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah."

A bit of history for you here, Samaria was an ancient city in the land of Israel and Jerusalem is a city located on a plateau in the Judean mountains. Make sure you understand what you are reading before challenging me my friend.

It is amusing that you really thought that I didn't know that this was not about two women. I framed it that way so you would finally respond to it.

Now explain if this is the best words that God could have used to narrate what you just explained. Lots of talk in those highlighted passages about tits and penises puzzy by God.

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Yuh right bai. Jesus didn't call the woman a dog. Maybe it is indeed a language thing. English was not supposed to be so difficult. Maybe it is not the language but rather the holy spirit.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"


The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly.

This has nothing to do with belief. People believe all sorts of things. I leave those topics for those willing to talk about beliefs. I am simply discussing the printed words and their wordly meanings. Anyone reading a note of someone calling a woman a dog will logically conclude that that person called the woman a dog. Your belief doesn't allow you to believe that but one cannot deny the printed words.

Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Dude. I am not obligated to answer any question from you. I never made any proposition here. All I did is respond (when I cared to) to your postings. You are free t ask anything you wish. It is a free forum. Don't hold your breath that I will answer. You should feel honored that I am actually spending time with the nonsense that you post.

Secondly, how do you move on to another's speck when you are unwilling to deal with the speck you posted?

Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Amen to that!!!

i told him on another forum he is a hypocrite.

He is a wolves in sheep clothing .

 

Imran posted:
Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Amen to that!!!

i told him on another forum he is a hypocrite.

He is a wolves in sheep clothing .

 

But since you are a schmuck, no one cares about your opinion.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Amen to that!!!

i told him on another forum he is a hypocrite.

He is a wolves in sheep clothing .

 

But since you are a schmuck, no one cares about your opinion.

Mr Know All what makes you think other care about yours... except yourself.... you bloody moron .

Keith posted:

ksazma, let start with the creation. That good book you read, how long it take God to create the heavens and earth? Could you site your verses  from your holy book that way we know where to find it. Thanks.

Since this topic is about the Bible, it states that God created the world in six days and then rested on the seventh day. What kind of All Powerful God needs a rest day? How many rest days have this God taken since He created the world? GW Bush used to be criticized for all the vacation days he used to take when he was President but that was understandable since Bush was human. But God?

Imran posted:
 

Mr Know All what makes you think other care about yours... except yourself.... you bloody moron .

If you had the ability to read properly, you would seen where I stated many times that GNI is where I hang out. I don't care what others here think about me.

Chameli posted:
ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:

 religious forum is heating upppppppppp

Imagine that biatch Imran criticizing me for honoring and respecting my two wonderful in-laws. Some people mental state is beyond repair.

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

What have I learned during my discussion with ksazma thus far other than reluctant to answer questions. Here I would outline and you can check the previous post if I am mistaken.

Number 1 ksazma attack the validity of the Bible

This is expected of him. If ksazma can undermine the strength and integrity of God's word, then it would be much easier for him to win his arguments, confound anyone who's a Christian, and make converts of those who don't know the truth and power of the Bible. This is exactly what the devil did in the Garden of Eden.  Satan said, "You truly will not die!" in Genesis 3:4.  I am not calling ksazma satanic.  I am simply pointing out that is how deception begins by bringing doubt upon God's word, and that this is exactly what ksazma has been trying to do. He try to get folks here reading the post to doubt the Bible and then making it look as though what he belief is great. Various methods are used here to accomplish this:

1. Stating that the Bible has numerous contradictions, remember that.

A. Of course, I cannot go through all the alleged Bible contradictions here. But my observation has been that the majority of "biblical contradictions" raised by ksazma are nothing more than examples of his lack of understanding of biblical theology and context. Always read the context of verses. My fellow Christians, don't let folks like ksazma simply state that there are contradictions and leave it at that. Ask them to give you one, like I did. If you cannot answer it, do research and get back to him. Sure, there are some tough areas of Scripture, but there are no contradictions in God's Word.

2. Criticizing the lack of original manuscripts.

A. The point here is that because we do not have the original manuscripts of the Bible, we cannot really know what the originals said and, therefore, the Bible could have been corrupted. Of course, what ksazma fail to mention is:

2-a: The Bible documents are well attested as being reliable and accurate. In fact, we have around 24,000 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament. So much so, that no major area of Christian doctrine is affected by possible variations among manuscripts.

Number. 2 ksazma attempt to set Paul against Jesus.

ksazma often make the claim that Paul never met Jesus and was not a disciple or apostle of Jesus something to that extent. Of course, this is not true. Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus in Acts 9 after Jesus' resurrection. Jesus spoke to him and commissioned him. So, Paul met Jesus. Furthermore, Paul visited the Jerusalem apostles Peter, James, and John who affirmed Paul's mission and message in Galatians 2:9. Also, see the context of Galatians 1:18--2:10. Peter, who was a disciple of Jesus, personally authenticated Paul's writings by calling them scripture in 2 Pet. 3:15-16. If they are inspired, then they cannot contradict Jesus' words.

In addition, ksazma belief would tell us that Jesus never claimed to be God, and that Paul is the one who wrote that Jesus was God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God, then in 2 Peter 3:15-16 where Peter calls Paul's writings Scripture and affirms Paul's message was in Galatians 2:9. Nevertheless, ksazma would like to sometimes assert that Paul hijacked Christianity and took it over and made Jesus into something He was not.

Folks, there are other areas people like ksazma will say are where Jesus and Paul do not agree; but when they bring it up, always ask for an example. Each time I've done this, I've discovered that ksazma did not have a sufficient understanding of what the text is saying. Remember, always read the context.

Number. 3 ksazma misinterpreting various Scripture passages.

A very good example of misrepresentation of biblical passages can be found in a dialogue I had with ksazma regarding Ezekiel 23. What ksazma is guilty of doing is imposing belief understandings upon biblical texts and then complaining about the biblical texts in light of how he interpret them. This is not how one should go about "refuting the opposition." Rather, ksazma should seek to understand the biblical/cultural context and deal with the issue from that perspective not a fabricated one.

=============================================
PS: I am answering any of questions, it's only fair that you address the one I asked, why are evading my question? In case you miss it.

ksazma, that book you read, how long it say it take God to create the heavens and earth? Could you site your verses from it that way we know where to find it. Thanks.

Chameli posted:
ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:
 
[]
 

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

oh well, just leave him alone...maybe he's jealous haha

you do what you think is right

there is no greater love than RESPECT and you prove that to your wife and her family as she does the same for you and your family

TO EACH HIS OWN

I criticize SOB Kazama for taking a Christian to task for his beliefs while at the same time he practice Islam . I have nothing against him doing the service for his in laws ( I respect that) but show respect for the bible.

my wife is Hindu and I came from a Muslim home  ... and I would not debate any religious book .

don't debate another believer when you are not upholding the book you believe in.

ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:
ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:

 religious forum is heating upppppppppp

Imagine that biatch Imran criticizing me for honoring and respecting my two wonderful in-laws. Some people mental state is beyond repair.

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

Don't share the poison you are drowning in . 

 

Keith posted:

What have I learned during my discussion with ksazma thus far other than reluctant to answer questions. Here I would outline and you can check the previous post if I am mistaken.

Number 1 ksazma attack the validity of the Bible

This is expected of him. If ksazma can undermine the strength and integrity of God's word, then it would be much easier for him to win his arguments, confound anyone who's a Christian, and make converts of those who don't know the truth and power of the Bible. This is exactly what the devil did in the Garden of Eden.  Satan said, "You truly will not die!" in Genesis 3:4.  I am not calling ksazma satanic.  I am simply pointing out that is how deception begins by bringing doubt upon God's word, and that this is exactly what ksazma has been trying to do. He try to get folks here reading the post to doubt the Bible and then making it look as though what he belief is great. Various methods are used here to accomplish this:

1. Stating that the Bible has numerous contradictions, remember that.

A. Of course, I cannot go through all the alleged Bible contradictions here. But my observation has been that the majority of "biblical contradictions" raised by ksazma are nothing more than examples of his lack of understanding of biblical theology and context. Always read the context of verses. My fellow Christians, don't let folks like ksazma simply state that there are contradictions and leave it at that. Ask them to give you one, like I did. If you cannot answer it, do research and get back to him. Sure, there are some tough areas of Scripture, but there are no contradictions in God's Word.

2. Criticizing the lack of original manuscripts.

A. The point here is that because we do not have the original manuscripts of the Bible, we cannot really know what the originals said and, therefore, the Bible could have been corrupted. Of course, what ksazma fail to mention is:

2-a: The Bible documents are well attested as being reliable and accurate. In fact, we have around 24,000 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament. So much so, that no major area of Christian doctrine is affected by possible variations among manuscripts.

Number. 2 ksazma attempt to set Paul against Jesus.

ksazma often make the claim that Paul never met Jesus and was not a disciple or apostle of Jesus something to that extent. Of course, this is not true. Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus in Acts 9 after Jesus' resurrection. Jesus spoke to him and commissioned him. So, Paul met Jesus. Furthermore, Paul visited the Jerusalem apostles Peter, James, and John who affirmed Paul's mission and message in Galatians 2:9. Also, see the context of Galatians 1:18--2:10. Peter, who was a disciple of Jesus, personally authenticated Paul's writings by calling them scripture in 2 Pet. 3:15-16. If they are inspired, then they cannot contradict Jesus' words.

In addition, ksazma belief would tell us that Jesus never claimed to be God, and that Paul is the one who wrote that Jesus was God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God, then in 2 Peter 3:15-16 where Peter calls Paul's writings Scripture and affirms Paul's message was in Galatians 2:9. Nevertheless, ksazma would like to sometimes assert that Paul hijacked Christianity and took it over and made Jesus into something He was not.

Folks, there are other areas people like ksazma will say are where Jesus and Paul do not agree; but when they bring it up, always ask for an example. Each time I've done this, I've discovered that ksazma did not have a sufficient understanding of what the text is saying. Remember, always read the context.

Number. 3 ksazma misinterpreting various Scripture passages.

A very good example of misrepresentation of biblical passages can be found in a dialogue I had with ksazma regarding Ezekiel 23. What ksazma is guilty of doing is imposing belief understandings upon biblical texts and then complaining about the biblical texts in light of how he interpret them. This is not how one should go about "refuting the opposition." Rather, ksazma should seek to understand the biblical/cultural context and deal with the issue from that perspective not a fabricated one.

=============================================
PS: I am answering any of questions, it's only fair that you address the one I asked, why are evading my question? In case you miss it.

ksazma, that book you read, how long it say it take God to create the heavens and earth? Could you site your verses from it that way we know where to find it. Thanks.

All of this and yet you have not proven that any of my citation are NOT from the scripture. You can believe whatever you wish. So can I. Why do you think that your interpretation is better than mine. Because I have no desire to question your interpretation or belief, I limited my argument to the word by stating that they are there. If the scripture states that Jesus called a woman a dog, that is what it states. What you think that means is your right but that does not remove the fact that the scripture states that Jesus called a woman a dog. If the scripture give an account of two whoring sisters who likes large penises like horses with huge ejaculations and who likes their tits and vaginas tickled and pressed, that is what it states. You can believe whatever you wish about that passage but that does not remove the fact that the scripture stated that.

Imran posted:

Don't share the poison you are drowning in . 

 

Talking about poison, remember you introduced yourself to this forum chasing Chief around to the point where another poster assessed that you are chasing after Chief's lar. Eventually I picked up on that term to describe you.

Imran posted:
 

I criticize SOB Kazama for taking a Christian to task for his beliefs while at the same time he practice Islam . I have nothing against him doing the service for his in laws ( I respect that) but show respect for the bible.

my wife is Hindu and I came from a Muslim home  ... and I would not debate any religious book .

don't debate another believer when you are not upholding the book you believe in.

Dude, have I ever asked you to show respect to any religion, their books or their followers? Better yet, do you show respect to all religions, their books or their followers? Are you competent enough to recognize all the inconsistencies in your post above? Language must be a real challenge to you.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
 

I criticize SOB Kazama for taking a Christian to task for his beliefs while at the same time he practice Islam . I have nothing against him doing the service for his in laws ( I respect that) but show respect for the bible.

my wife is Hindu and I came from a Muslim home  ... and I would not debate any religious book .

don't debate another believer when you are not upholding the book you believe in.

Dude, have I ever asked you to show respect to any religion, their books or their followers? Better yet, do you show respect to all religions, their books or their followers? Are you competent enough to recognize all the inconsistencies in your post above? Language must be a real challenge to you.

Show me where there is inconsistency in my post.

 

Chameli posted:
Imran posted:
{} (IMO)

don't debate another believer when you are not upholding the book you believe in.

and what proof do you have of this statement???

can one not uphold the book one grew up with and yet accept the one his beloved grew up in???

Shah Rukh Khan has both in his home and heart...his children participate in both Hinduism and go to Mosque regularly...that's a MAN worthy of respect

and what's with all you muslim fellas and dem hindu gyals??? nevermind...i dun come up with several answers (some i agree with LOL)

Chameli gal I have respect for you and would not take you to task what you wrote about.

you indeed make me chuckle though.

Happy Family Day.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

Don't share the poison you are drowning in . 

 

Talking about poison, remember you introduced yourself to this forum chasing Chief around to the point where another poster assessed that you are chasing after Chief's lar. Eventually I picked up on that term to describe you.

Your problem was when I take Chief on for been a hypocrite but again both of you drowning in the same boat 

Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
 

I criticize SOB Kazama for taking a Christian to task for his beliefs while at the same time he practice Islam . I have nothing against him doing the service for his in laws ( I respect that) but show respect for the bible.

my wife is Hindu and I came from a Muslim home  ... and I would not debate any religious book .

don't debate another believer when you are not upholding the book you believe in.

Dude, have I ever asked you to show respect to any religion, their books or their followers? Better yet, do you show respect to all religions, their books or their followers? Are you competent enough to recognize all the inconsistencies in your post above? Language must be a real challenge to you.

Show me where there is inconsistency in my post.

 

I rest my case. I knew you were not competent enough to recognize it.

Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

Don't share the poison you are drowning in . 

 

Talking about poison, remember you introduced yourself to this forum chasing Chief around to the point where another poster assessed that you are chasing after Chief's lar. Eventually I picked up on that term to describe you.

Your problem was when I take Chief on for been a hypocrite but again both of you drowning in the same boat 

A few things. 1. I don't have any problems. 2. Chief doesn't need any defender. 3. Your antiman behavior was nauseating to the point where another poster pointed out that you were looking for lar. Now gwan dahside.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
ksazma posted:
Imran posted:

Don't share the poison you are drowning in . 

 

Talking about poison, remember you introduced yourself to this forum chasing Chief around to the point where another poster assessed that you are chasing after Chief's lar. Eventually I picked up on that term to describe you.

Your problem was when I take Chief on for been a hypocrite but again both of you drowning in the same boat 

A few things. 1. I don't have any problems. 2. Chief doesn't need any defender. 3. Your antiman behavior was nauseating to the point where another poster pointed out that you were looking for lar. Now gwan dahside.

The other poster you referring to is Chief .... And that's not suprising jerk

As i told you before, I will torment you ass and I have seen others told you the same . 

You Fk moron.

 

Imran posted:
 

The other poster you referring to is Chief .... And that's not suprising jerk

As i told you before, I will torment you ass and I have seen others told you the same . 

You Fk moron.

 

Actually it wasn't Chief but you are too daft to know that. Your outbursts are exposing your frustration. One cannot have a frustrated tormented mind and still be able to torment another at the same time.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
 

The other poster you referring to is Chief .... And that's not suprising jerk

As i told you before, I will torment you ass and I have seen others told you the same . 

You Fk moron.

 

Actually it wasn't Chief but you are too daft to know that. Your outbursts are exposing your frustration. One cannot have a frustrated tormented mind and still be able to torment another at the same time.

Haha go lick your thumb 

Let the record show that while I have been highly critical of the Bible which does not necessarily belong to anyone, I have not attack the character of Keith. However, I think Keith took a not so veiled swipe at my character by suggesting that I may be satanic.

His comment may be scriptural. I am certain as a believer he meant no harm. However, your words are contrary his beliefs AND YOUR compilation of words are of the kind that sin against the Holy Spirit. That is the unpardonable sin.

Your faith contradicts the Lordship of Christ, and you make that known in every possible way. And every time you have the opportunity. One could precieve it as hate for the believers in Christ. Atleast, you are not one of those inter-faith crazies, thinking that God is the same for every religious beliefs.

I commend you on what you do. For you really expose those of the Muslim faith who falsely says that they respect Christians, when they really do not.

Your commentaries are quite similar to a muslim man on You-tube(Zakir, I think). What you pronounced on here, I've heard for years, even before the madness of the Middle East flared up. Locally, the Immams gave their resounding scolding to Guyanese muslims who associated with Guyanese with different beliefs. Suh, I know weh yuh gweing wid the gaff.

You are bold to challenge the authority of Christ, not even in the secret of your own mind but proclaim it on the World Wide Web.

That is fearless bro.   

 

Living, we are at odds with everything. Dead, we going to a peaceful place.

But, I am not quite ready to go there yet.

I enjoy all discussions and opinions. I am gifted to know when to backoff, ignore and JUST WAIT for my pontifications to unveil for my opponents.

I most definitely stay away from knowing of diseases. I doan want to know dem names, then dem would not infect me. My prayer, "Lord protect me with your shed blood and surround me with Thousands of Ministering Angels." 

With Redux, Leslie and Caribj gone, I treasure the Floridian, Kazama(sp), he helps me out, Luminosity wise. Spelling, sometimes escapes me. Just imagine if I did not stumble onto this site 20 odd years ago.

Thank You Safraz.

 

 

 

ksazma posted:

Let the record show that while I have been highly critical of the Bible which does not necessarily belong to anyone, I have not attack the character of Keith. However, I think Keith took a not so veiled swipe at my character by suggesting that I may be satanic.

Look, I don't think you are and I never called you satanic. You really have problems reading and understanding.

Saggabai you would be well served if you follow your own advice. You have taken Liberty with relegating other faiths and their followers as meaningless because you believe that Jesus and Christianity is the only true way. Christian churches and organizations are terribly guilty of labeling other faiths and the figureheads of those faiths as cults and false gods/prophets. You do that also. Keith through his postings also went down that path and that is where I entered his thread and proceeded to demonstrate that there is nothing so special with the Bible, it's God or its other persons to make it any better than what others have. If you really want to talk about a community that is open minded then you would have give that to Hindus because anyone and everyone will under their tent. Christians can't say that. Muslims can't say that either not can Jews.

Just like how you don't have any fear of demeaning non-Christian faiths don't expect others to regard Christianity as being superior. In fact of all the people mentioned in the Bible, Jesus is the least accomplished. He never really accomplished anything. That is a fact. No one can point to anything in the world and say "Jesus did that". That is a fact.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Let the record show that while I have been highly critical of the Bible which does not necessarily belong to anyone, I have not attack the character of Keith. However, I think Keith took a not so veiled swipe at my character by suggesting that I may be satanic.

Look, I don't think you are and I never called you satanic. You really have problems reading and understanding.

Reading and comprehension are not areas that I struggle with dude. I purposefully used the word 'suggesting' so that I can maintain the requisite clarity.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Let the record show that while I have been highly critical of the Bible which does not necessarily belong to anyone, I have not attack the character of Keith. However, I think Keith took a not so veiled swipe at my character by suggesting that I may be satanic.

Look, I don't think you are and I never called you satanic. You really have problems reading and understanding.

Reading and comprehension are not areas that I struggle with dude. I purposefully used the word 'suggesting' so that I can maintain the requisite clarity.

You certainly cannot fool me due to what you displayed here during our discussions. To answer your question, your suggestion is incorrect my friend.

ksazma posted:

Saggabai you would be well served if you follow your own advice. You have taken Liberty with relegating other faiths and their followers as meaningless because you believe that Jesus and Christianity is the only true way. Christian churches and organizations are terribly guilty of labeling other faiths and the figureheads of those faiths as cults and false gods/prophets. You do that also. Keith through his postings also went down that path and that is where I entered his thread and proceeded to demonstrate that there is nothing so special with the Bible, it's God or its other persons to make it any better than what others have. If you really want to talk about a community that is open minded then you would have give that to Hindus because anyone and everyone will under their tent. Christians can't say that. Muslims can't say that either not can Jews.

Just like how you don't have any fear of demeaning non-Christian faiths don't expect others to regard Christianity as being superior. In fact of all the people mentioned in the Bible, Jesus is the least accomplished. He never really accomplished anything. That is a fact. No one can point to anything in the world and say "Jesus did that". That is a fact.

What's good about your religion? Enlighten us. You attack everyone, oops sorry, you attack my Christian faith, you didn't expect me to roll over did you. 

Now I am challenging you to show us what's great about you belief by answering the question I proposed and you seem to be dodge. 

According to your belief and in the book you believe in, how long did it take God to create the heaven and earth? Please provide verse references. I await your response.  

skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, "I am God." That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: "You, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming deity. When Jesus declared, "I and the Father are one," He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth before Abraham was born, I am!" Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: "The Word (Jesus) was God" and "the Word became flesh" (John 1:1, 14).....boy they going to be questions on this statement , anyway, as I was saying, these verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’" The Father refers to Jesus as "O God," indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God that's in Revelation 19:10. Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

I hope this help explain what your wife was trying too.

kp posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

If Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is God.

Just read the Bible you will be enlightened. Everything is in chronological order for you to follow and understand.

Keith posted:
kp posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

If Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is God.

Just read the Bible you will be enlightened. Everything is in chronological order for you to follow and understand.

Question.  Who was God before Jesus.

kp posted:
Keith posted:
kp posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

If Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is God.

Just read the Bible you will be enlightened. Everything is in chronological order for you to follow and understand.

Question.  Who was God before 

Fist answer this, do you believe religion (speaking generally) has had a net positive or a net negative effect on humanity? If the latter, how do you explain the prevalence of religion in evolutionary terms?

Keith posted:
kp posted:
Keith posted:
kp posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

If Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is God.

Just read the Bible you will be enlightened. Everything is in chronological order for you to follow and understand.

Question.  Who was God before 

Fist answer this, do you believe religion (speaking generally) has had a net positive or a net negative effect on humanity? If the latter, how do you explain the prevalence of religion in evolutionary terms?

Question Who was God before Jesus   Christmas. 

kp posted:
Keith posted:
kp posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

If Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is God.

Just read the Bible you will be enlightened. Everything is in chronological order for you to follow and understand.

Question.  Who was God before Jesus.

I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. If there is no God, "the big questions" remain unanswered, so how do we answer the following questions.

Where did everything come from, and why is there something rather than nothing?

Why is there conscious, intelligent life on this planet, and is there any meaning to this life?

Does human history lead anywhere, or is it all in vain since death is merely the end?

How do you come to understand good and evil, right and wrong without a transcendent signifier?

If these concepts are merely social constructions, or human opinions, where do we look to determine what is good or bad, right or wrong?

If you are content within an atheistic worldview, what circumstances would serve to make you open to other answers?

Thank you, I hope I didn't overwhelm you,much appreciate. 

Keith posted:
kp posted:
Keith posted:
kp posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Keith, I am a little confused. Is Jesus the son of god or god? My wife who is a Christian told me he is god. Which one is true? I know he cannot be both.

If Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is God.

Just read the Bible you will be enlightened. Everything is in chronological order for you to follow and understand.

Question.  Who was God before Jesus.

I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. If there is no God, "the big questions" remain unanswered, so how do we answer the following questions.

Where did everything come from, and why is there something rather than nothing?

Why is there conscious, intelligent life on this planet, and is there any meaning to this life?

Does human history lead anywhere, or is it all in vain since death is merely the end?

How do you come to understand good and evil, right and wrong without a transcendent signifier?

If these concepts are merely social constructions, or human opinions, where do we look to determine what is good or bad, right or wrong?

If you are content within an atheistic worldview, what circumstances would serve to make you open to other answers?

Thank you, I hope I didn't overwhelm you,much appreciate. 

If you are saying that Jesus was God. Well who was God before the birth of Jesus when there was human creation hundreds of years before his birth.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Let the record show that while I have been highly critical of the Bible which does not necessarily belong to anyone, I have not attack the character of Keith. However, I think Keith took a not so veiled swipe at my character by suggesting that I may be satanic.

Look, I don't think you are and I never called you satanic. You really have problems reading and understanding.

Reading and comprehension are not areas that I struggle with dude. I purposefully used the word 'suggesting' so that I can maintain the requisite clarity.

You certainly cannot fool me due to what you displayed here during our discussions. To answer your question, your suggestion is incorrect my friend.

For the argument of reading and understanding, did Jesus refer to the woman as a dog in the highlighted passage below? Yes or no?

Secondly, I stated that YOU suggested it, not I.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

Jesus said in the Bible that he of himself can do nothing. It is by the finger of God that he cast out devils. What kind of God can do nothing. Imagine that he didn't say