Keith, I have no patience to read your cut and paste from the bible. I have heard all of these before. Let me tell you something you do not know. I use to work for Billy Graham from 1973-1976 at their bulk mailing facilities in Minneapolis. I use to run labeling and inserting machines that prepared the mails to be sent out. I use to process 1.5 million Decision magazines a month. I use to work with students from a nearby college. I still did not convert to Christianity or believed all that I heard.
Former Member
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Who was Judas to Jesus before the crucifixion? What role did he play amongst the disciples of Jesus? How long was he one of the twelve disciples and at what point was he no more one of those twelve disciples?
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples (including Judas) that they will sit on thrones with him in heaven and judge the twelve tribes of Israel? Yes or No.
Answer: "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28).
Judas forfeited his position when he betrayed Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane (Matthew 26:48). Judas later committed suicide (27:5).
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples which included Judas at the time that they will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel before Judas forfeited his position? Yes or No?
Note how short my question is. No need to respond with a whole book. Just a simple yes or no. Thank you.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Who was Judas to Jesus before the crucifixion? What role did he play amongst the disciples of Jesus? How long was he one of the twelve disciples and at what point was he no more one of those twelve disciples?
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples (including Judas) that they will sit on thrones with him in heaven and judge the twelve tribes of Israel? Yes or No.
Answer: "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28).
Judas forfeited his position when he betrayed Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane (Matthew 26:48). Judas later committed suicide (27:5).
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples which included Judas at the time that they will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel before Judas forfeited his position? Yes or No?
Note how short my question is. No need to respond with a whole book. Just a simple yes or no. Thank you.
Answer: Have you not read what I wrote in previous post concerning Matthew 19:28.
Why We Fall
Unless weaknesses are addressed, they have potential to cause destruction. Vulnerabilities can either drive us closer to God or blind us to His love, as two Old Testament stories demonstrate. Joseph and Samson faced similar temptations but responded very differently. Day after day, Potiphar’s wife tried to entice Joseph, yet he rejected her advances (Gen. 39:7-9). Samson, on the other hand, willingly gave in to Delilah (Judg. 16:15-17).
Samson had been consecrated to God, and the Holy Spirit was moving in his life (Judg. 13:24-25). Nevertheless, he chose the path of self-indulgence. Too proud to admit weakness, he lived in denial, which led to a lack of discipline and left the door open for Satan. Because Samson rationalized his weakness, it soon began to dominate his life. Listening to the lies of the devil and wicked people, he exchanged God’s blessing and supernatural strength for irresponsible sexual involvement. And in the end, what did he have? Absolutely nothing.
Given the slightest chance, sin will infiltrate your life and affect every aspect, including your faith, job, and relationships. Nothing is off limits. If you’re thinking, I don’t have any weaknesses with the potential to destroy my life, then Satan has already blinded you to a spiritual reality in your midst.
You have the choice to face temptation as Joseph did—or as Samson did. In times of weakness, do you depend on God, obey Him, and seek strength to overcome? Or do you make excuses and turn from His leading? How different Samson’s life would have been if he’d chosen a better response.
skeldon_man posted:Keith, I have no patience to read your cut and paste from the bible. I have heard all of these before. Let me tell you something you do not know. I use to work for Billy Graham from 1973-1976 at their bulk mailing facilities in Minneapolis. I use to run labeling and inserting machines that prepared the mails to be sent out. I use to process 1.5 million Decision magazines a month. I use to work with students from a nearby college. I still did not convert to Christianity or believed all that I heard.
Good for you, at least you can never say you never heard of Him when your time comes to an end and you stand before Him to give account of your life.
Former Member
Keith posted:skeldon_man posted:Keith, I have no patience to read your cut and paste from the bible. I have heard all of these before. Let me tell you something you do not know. I use to work for Billy Graham from 1973-1976 at their bulk mailing facilities in Minneapolis. I use to run labeling and inserting machines that prepared the mails to be sent out. I use to process 1.5 million Decision magazines a month. I use to work with students from a nearby college. I still did not convert to Christianity or believed all that I heard.
Good for you, at least you can never say you never heard of Him when your time comes to an end and you stand before Him to give account of your life.
Like I told my Christian wife, "If only Christians go to heaven, then I do not want to go there, I would not know any one". When people preach the bible to me, I tell them to keep their breath for their old age to blow their coffee.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Who was Judas to Jesus before the crucifixion? What role did he play amongst the disciples of Jesus? How long was he one of the twelve disciples and at what point was he no more one of those twelve disciples?
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples (including Judas) that they will sit on thrones with him in heaven and judge the twelve tribes of Israel? Yes or No.
Answer: "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28).
Judas forfeited his position when he betrayed Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane (Matthew 26:48). Judas later committed suicide (27:5).
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples which included Judas at the time that they will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel before Judas forfeited his position? Yes or No?
Note how short my question is. No need to respond with a whole book. Just a simple yes or no. Thank you.
Answer: Have you not read what I wrote in previous post concerning Matthew 19:28.
Was Judas amongst the disciples when Jesus made the promise in Matthew 19:28? Yes or no?
By the way, you shifted some words in your Matthew 19:28 quote above but nonetheless it still includes Judas amongst the 12 disciples who will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Are you now willing to admit that Judas was also included in Jesus promise in Matthew 19:28 or are you still going to stubbornly pretend that he wasn't included.
Help for Our Healing
God cares about our physical well-being. After all, He made our bodies as a temple for His Spirit. And while He is able to heal sickness, His original intention was not for His perfect creation to experience disease.
But in this sinful world, ungodly choices at times lead to illness (John 5:14). So when we’re afflicted, it’s wise to ask God to search our heart and reveal anything He wants us to address (Psalm 139:23-24). Since sin can act like a blockage to prayer (Psalm 66:18), confessing any known wrongdoing is also a good idea.
Most of the time, though, health problems are just part of our human condition—a symptom of mankind’s fallen state rather than evidence of personal sin. The truth is, disease affects just about everyone at some point. So how does God want us to respond?
Certain situations, of course, require prompt medical attention, but even in a crisis, our Father wants us to be aware of His presence and to stay in communication with Him (1 Thess. 5:17). Developing a pattern of prayerfulness before an emergency occurs is the best way to prepare for the unexpected.
The Bible’s instructions also include praying for one another and calling the elders of the church to come and pray, anointing the afflicted person with oil in Jesus’ name. (See James 5:14.)
Our Father is able to heal even the most deadly disease, but He sometimes chooses to allow the condition to remain. When requesting restored health, we should ask with faith and trust—faith in God’s ability but trust in His perfect will, whether that means healing or suffering-induced growth.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Who was Judas to Jesus before the crucifixion? What role did he play amongst the disciples of Jesus? How long was he one of the twelve disciples and at what point was he no more one of those twelve disciples?
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples (including Judas) that they will sit on thrones with him in heaven and judge the twelve tribes of Israel? Yes or No.
Answer: "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28).
Judas forfeited his position when he betrayed Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane (Matthew 26:48). Judas later committed suicide (27:5).
Did Jesus tell his twelve disciples which included Judas at the time that they will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel before Judas forfeited his position? Yes or No?
Note how short my question is. No need to respond with a whole book. Just a simple yes or no. Thank you.
Answer: Have you not read what I wrote in previous post concerning Matthew 19:28.
Was Judas amongst the disciples when Jesus made the promise in Matthew 19:28? Yes or no?
Answer: Have you not read what I wrote in previous post concerning Matthew 19:28. Draw your own conclusion from that.================================================
By the way, you shifted some words in your Matthew 19:28 quote above but nonetheless it still includes Judas amongst the 12 disciples who will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Are you now willing to admit that Judas was also included in Jesus promise in Matthew 19:28 or are you still going to stubbornly pretend that he wasn't included.
Answer: First of all I did not add nor shift words pertaining to the Matthew 19:28. Just for you I will post the different translations below. Secondly, read, read and read what I have posted in previous post and draw your own conclusion. Judas is no where in heaven waiting to judge anyone.
Matthew 19:28King James Version (KJV)
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matthew 19:28New International Version (NIV)
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Where is the shift?Judas forfeited his position when he betrayed Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus knew what Judas was contemplating, yet still called him "friend".
Notice the words, "that ye which have followed me". Judas did follow Jesus for a while, but in the end he did not follow Jesus. That is why he forfeited his position. According to Acts (1:24-26), Matthias was added to the eleven apostles.
Acts 1:24-26
24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Former Member
At the time Jesus promised Judas that he will be one of the twelve disciples sitting on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, he had no idea that Judas would end up betraying him. That clearly proves that Jesus had no idea that Judas would betray him. It just proves that Jesus was not aware of the unknown so he couldn't be God knowing everything from the beginning. Jesus was a con man. The dudes who followed him pretty much satisfy his craving for attention so he made promises to them so they feel special. One of those that he made empty promises to was Judas. Jesus was an empty vessel who never accomplished anything in life because he chose to just goof off with his compadres.
Former Member
ksazma posted:At the time Jesus promised Judas that he will be one of the twelve disciples sitting on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, he had no idea that Judas would end up betraying him. That clearly proves that Jesus had no idea that Judas would betray him. It just proves that Jesus was not aware of the unknown so he couldn't be God knowing everything from the beginning. Jesus was a con man. The dudes who followed him pretty much satisfy his craving for attention so he made promises to them so they feel special. One of those that he made empty promises to was Judas. Jesus was an empty vessel who never accomplished anything in life because he chose to just goof off with his compadres.
It was also said that Jesus told Judas to do what he had to do. Judas was Jesus' best friend. Jesus might have set up his own death to prove that he was the son of god or god. If Jesus was god, who took care of the world during the 3 days from the day of his death to his ascension?
Former Member
You rearranged the words in your KJV citation above.
Former Member
If you read the earlier verses in Matthew 19, you will find where Jesus clearly stated that he is no any part of God. He told the man to follow the 10 commandments.
Former Member
ksazma posted:You rearranged the words in your KJV citation above.
Ksaz bhai, I am not a religious guy, I get a lot out of watching the documentaries on American Heroes Channel. I don't even know which hindu god is which. The versions of the bible is Greek to me. I know both Judas and Mary Magdalene had gospels. It was also said that Mary was the wife of Jesus who had 2 sons.
Former Member
skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:You rearranged the words in your KJV citation above.
Ksaz bhai, I am not a religious guy, I get a lot out of watching the documentaries on American Heroes Channel. I don't even know which hindu god is which. The versions of the bible is Greek to me. I know both Judas and Mary Magdalene had gospels. It was also said that Mary was the wife of Jesus who had 2 sons.
Bai Skeldon_man, I am not religious either. However, I try to read up on things before I comment on them and it is through these research that I learn about the things that I comment on. The stories about Mary Magdalene being Jesus' wife is not supported by mainstream scholarship. However, what is undisputed are the discrepancies between the various versions of the Bible as well as between the various books of the same version of the Bible.
Keith mentioned above that "However, saying that God wrote the Bible does not mean He took pen in hand, grabbed some parchment, and physically wrote the text of Scripture. His “writing” of Scripture was not a physical action on His part. Rather, God’s authorship was accomplished through the process of inspiration, as human writers wrote God’s message." If what Keith says here is true, then there are three reasonable conclusions to the current state of the Bible with all of its inaccuracies and contradictions.
1. If God inspired the writers of the Bible, then He must have a terrible memory.
2. If it was not God's memory that is responsible, then the writers must not have been inspired at all but wrote of their own free will.
3. If it was not God or the writers who screwed up royally, then it must be those who produced the current versions Bible.
So Keith can continue parading his sermon as not really a sermon but these facts he will not respond to without another long sermon. While nothing is wrong with someone conducting a sermon, one should be honest and not disguise it as not.
When God Does Not Heal
If God is all-powerful, why do we witness so few miraculous healings? There are many reasons for this. Sometimes we do not ask Him. Other times, we might ask but with wrong motives or a lack of faith. And then there is the reason that we do not like to hear: God may choose not to heal.
Beware of theology that promises healing to anyone who asks. This is not biblical. The problem is not inability; God is able to heal anyone and anything. And be careful if someone claims the lingering illness is the result of sin. This may be true, but often our heavenly Father, in His great love and unfathomable wisdom, allows our ailments to persist.
Consider Paul, who asked the Lord three times to remove his “thorn.” (See 2 Corinthians 12:7-8.) Yet it remained. We can learn from his response—he did not question God’s authority, nor did he complain. Instead, recognizing that divine strength would show through his weakness, Paul trusted God.
We, too, can believe that God will work all things for good in His children’s lives (Romans 8:28). In fact, character growth usually occurs in times of suffering, loss, or hurt. While adversity is uncomfortable, we can feel hope and joy in what our Father is accomplishing through painful times.
Ultimately, God brings glory to Himself and good to His children. There are instances when this involves miraculous healing, but He often refines us by allowing the hardship. As with silver and gold, impurities are usually removed from hearts in the fiery furnace of life’s struggles. Trust God’s plan and rest in His love.
ksazma posted:At the time Jesus promised Judas that he will be one of the twelve disciples sitting on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, he had no idea that Judas would end up betraying him. That clearly proves that Jesus had no idea that Judas would betray him. It just proves that Jesus was not aware of the unknown so he couldn't be God knowing everything from the beginning. Jesus was a con man. The dudes who followed him pretty much satisfy his craving for attention so he made promises to them so they feel special. One of those that he made empty promises to was Judas. Jesus was an empty vessel who never accomplished anything in life because he chose to just goof off with his compadres.
Answer: My friend do you take time to read at all? I assume if you did you would've find the answer but if you have missed it let me explain it for you more in details and answer the obvious questions you failed to ask.
Note: My answers are backup by the scripture in the bible and not just what I or anyone else think....Take note of that, the answer to all your questions are found in the BIBLE.The answer is that Jesus selected him because this was part of God’s plan. Jesus drops the first hint that He would be betrayed while He is speaking to a large crowd of disciples,
John 6:64 :: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.John 6:66 says that many of His "disciples" left Him after this. Why did so many leave Jesus? The answer is many did not really believe in Jesus. Is it not interesting that Jesus called them betrayers. Those who are real Christians will not turn traitor and desert Jesus. This passage also tells us that this was no surprise to Jesus. He knew who the traitors would be.
Jesus Chose Judas. Yet, Jesus chose Judas Iscariot as a disciple anyway,
John 6:71 :: He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.And John 12:4 tells us again that Judas was intending to betray Jesus. Why did Jesus choose Judas? There are probably many reasons. One reason could be that Jesus wanted to show us how to love even our enemies. Another reason could be that God wanted to leave an example for us that even those we trust may not be real. John 13:22tells us that even after Jesus told His disciples that one them would betray Him, they did not know who that was.
Why Jesus Chose Judas. The main reason Jesus chose Judas is given to us in John 13:18-22.
John 13:18-22 :: 18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
It was done so that the prophecies of old would be fulfilled. The prophecy quoted here is Psalm 41:9. Judas was such an evil man that John 17:12 tells us that Judas is the son of perdition.
John 17:12 :: While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Here is another instance of fulfilled prophecy. Judas did not lose his spiritual life; he never had it. This has been clear since John 6:64. This is not a picture of a swan becoming dirty, but of a pig that never left the mud. The next passage is hard to understand for one who had been so close to Jesus, but it shows how sinful a person can be, even people in the church.
Luke 22:3 :: Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.So we should not be surprised that churches have problems.
Acts 1:16-17 :: 16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
This is our final reference to fulfilled prophecy regarding Judas.
Conclusion: Why did Jesus choose Judas? The major reason is to fulfill prophecy. Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him. God knew it long ago. Jesus could have chosen someone else, but scripture had to be fulfilled. This is an important lesson for Christians. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not make them a Christian. 1 John 2:19 explains why some do not remain.
1 John 2:19 :: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
ksazma posted:skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:You rearranged the words in your KJV citation above.
Ksaz bhai, I am not a religious guy, I get a lot out of watching the documentaries on American Heroes Channel. I don't even know which hindu god is which. The versions of the bible is Greek to me. I know both Judas and Mary Magdalene had gospels. It was also said that Mary was the wife of Jesus who had 2 sons.
Bai Skeldon_man, I am not religious either. However, I try to read up on things before I comment on them and it is through these research that I learn about the things that I comment on. The stories about Mary Magdalene being Jesus' wife is not supported by mainstream scholarship. However, what is undisputed are the discrepancies between the various versions of the Bible as well as between the various books of the same version of the Bible.
Keith mentioned above that "However, saying that God wrote the Bible does not mean He took pen in hand, grabbed some parchment, and physically wrote the text of Scripture. His “writing” of Scripture was not a physical action on His part. Rather, God’s authorship was accomplished through the process of inspiration, as human writers wrote God’s message." If what Keith says here is true, then there are three reasonable conclusions to the current state of the Bible with all of its inaccuracies and contradictions.
1. If God inspired the writers of the Bible, then He must have a terrible memory.
2. If it was not God's memory that is responsible, then the writers must not have been inspired at all but wrote of their own free will.
3. If it was not God or the writers who screwed up royally, then it must be those who produced the current versions Bible.
So Keith can continue parading his sermon as not really a sermon but these facts he will not respond to without another long sermon. While nothing is wrong with someone conducting a sermon, one should be honest and not disguise it as not.
Answer: 40 authors wrote the Bible over a period of 1,500 years. These Bible writers wrote as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit (READ: 2 Timothy 3:16-17). Moses was the first person to write portions of Scripture while John the disciple of Jesus was the last. Other famous people who wrote the Bible include: David, Daniel, Peter, Paul, Jonah, Isaiah, Solomon and David.
The Scripture says in II Peter 1:20-21, "You must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
The Holy Spirit revealed to the prophets the messages of Scripture. The writers of the Bible wrote not according to their own will or whim, but only as they were moved, or controlled, by the Spirit of God. The Bible is God's own book!
II Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." The Holy Bible affects human beings so profoundly because "all" the Bible is "God-breathed." It's more than a nice collection of moral principles; it's more than a great book; it's an inspired document, God's book. The prophets who wrote the Bible related what they saw and heard in human language, but their message came directly from God.
I 'm awaiting your questions concerning the Hold Spirit.
"The greatest tragedy in life is to live without God and spend eternity separated from God."
Have a wonderful weekend fellas.
Former Member
This God is one strange dude. He does silly things just to fulfill silly prophesy. Jesus tell Judas that he will judge people in heaven even though he is supposed to know that Judas isn't going to just because it is God's silly plan.
Then we have a Holy Spirit who must have the worst memory in the world because all those writers contradict each other.
Now when the preacher gets cornered he resorts to "God works in mysterious ways".
ksazma posted:This God is one strange dude. He does silly things just to fulfill silly prophesy. Jesus tell Judas that he will judge people in heaven even though he is supposed to know that Judas isn't going to just because it is God's silly plan.
Then we have a Holy Spirit who must have the worst memory in the world because all those writers contradict each other.
Now when the preacher gets cornered he resorts to "God works in mysterious ways".
No ksazma, the entire Bible is harmonious. While some passages might seem to show the Bible contradicting itself, they can usually be understood correctly by applying one or more of the following principles:
Consider the context. Any author can appear to contradict himself if his words are taken out of context.
Consider the writer’s viewpoint. Eyewitnesses might describe an event accurately but not use the exact same wording or include the same details.
Take into account historical facts and customs.
Distinguish between the figurative and the literal uses of a word.
Recognize that an action may be attributed to someone—even if he did not personally carry it out. *
Use an accurate Bible translation.
Avoid trying to reconcile what the Bible says with mistaken religious ideas or dogma.
The following examples show how these principles can explain some seeming inconsistencies in the Bible. Are you still with me ksazma do fall asleep my brother.
Principle 1: Context
If God rested on the seventh day, how has he continued working? The context of the Genesis creation account shows that the statement that God “began to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had been doing” refers specifically to his work of physical creation respecting the earth. (Genesis 2:2-4) Jesus did not contradict this, however, when he said that God “has kept working until now,” because he was talking about other works of God. (John 5:17) God’s works include the inspiration of the Bible and his guidance and care of mankind.—Psalm 20:6; 105:5; 2 Peter 1:21.
Principles 2 and 3: Viewpoint and history
Jesus heals the blind man: Where did Jesus heal the blind man? The book of Luke says that Jesus healed a blind man as Jesus “was getting near to Jericho,” while the parallel account in Matthew mentions two blind men and says that the incident occurred when Jesus was “going out of Jericho.” (Luke 18:35-43; Matthew 20:29-34) These two accounts, written from different viewpoints, actually complement each other. Regarding the number of men, Matthew is more specific as to there being two, while Luke focuses on the one man to whom Jesus directed his remarks. As for the location, archaeologists have found that in Jesus’ time Jericho was a double city, with the old Jewish city situated about one and a half kilometers (1 mi) away from the newer Roman city. Jesus may have been between the two cities when he performed this miracle.
Principle 4: Figurative and literal terms
Will the earth be destroyed? At Ecclesiastes 1:4, the Bible says that “the earth remains forever,” which to some apparently conflicts with its statement that “the elements will be destroyed by heat—with the earth.” (2 Peter 3:10, Beck) In the Bible, however, the word “earth” is used both literally, referring to our planet, and figuratively, referring to the people who live on it. (Genesis 1:1; 11:1) The destruction of the “earth” described at 2 Peter 3:10 refers, not to the burning up of our planet, but to the “destruction of the ungodly people.”—2 Peter 3:7.
Principle 5: Attribution
In Capernaum, who brought the centurion’s request to Jesus? Matthew 8:5, 6 says that the centurion (army officer) himself came to Jesus, while Luke 7:3 says that the centurion sent older men of the Jews to make his request. This apparent Bible contradiction can be understood in that the army officer initiated the request, but he sent the older men as his representatives.
Principle 6: Accurate translation
Do we all sin? The Bible teaches that we all inherit sin from the first man, Adam. (Romans 5:12) Some translations seem to contradict this by saying that a good person "does no sin" or "sinneth not." (1 John 3:6, The Bible in Basic English; King James Version) In the original language, though, the Greek verb for "sin" at 1 John 3:6 is in the present tense, which in that language normally indicates a continuous action. There is a difference between inherited sin, which we cannot avoid, and the deliberate, continuous practice of disobeying God’s laws. Thus, some translations clear up this seeming contradiction by accurately using phrases such as “does not practice sin” or “does not habitually sin.”—New World Translation; Phillips.
Principle 7: The Bible, not dogma
Is Jesus equal to God or lesser than God? Jesus once said: “I and the Father are one,” which seems to contradict his statement that “the Father is greater than I am.” (John 10:30; 14:28) To understand those verses correctly, we must examine what the Bible really says about Jehovah and Jesus rather than try to harmonize the verses with the Trinity dogma, which is not based on the Bible. The Bible shows that Jehovah is not only Jesus’ Father but also Jesus’ God, the One whom even Jesus worships. (Matthew 4:10; Mark 15:34; John 17:3; 20:17; 2 Corinthians 1:3) Jesus is not equal to God.
The context of Jesus’ statement "I and the Father are one" shows that he was talking about the oneness of purpose that he shared with his Father, Jehovah God. Jesus later said: "The Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father." (John 10:38) Jesus shared this unity of purpose with his followers as well, for he prayed to God about them: "I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. I in union with them and you in union with me." -John 17:22, 23.
Former Member
Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Former Member
ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
.
Former Member
skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
Bai Skelly, I have been debating Christians since 1980 so there is no chance I will ever be a Christian. The more I learn of Christianity, the less attractive it is.
Secondly, Keith claimed that he was not giving a sermon but just involved in a thought. If it is not a sermon, then exchanges of thoughts would be welcome. So it is time for Keith to drop the preaching and deal with thoughts independently. Everyone's preaching is beautiful so there is no chance what Keith preaches is going to sound any different from another person's preaching. Take for instance, Jesus never said that he is God or any part of any Triune God. He rebuked the man for calling him good telling the man that the only one who is good is God. He also said that he of his own can do NOTHING. He by the finger of God cast out devils. Imagine a God who can of his own do NOTHING. He didn't know that the reason there were no figs on the tree was because it was not the season for figs. Imagine if you tell someone that there will get cashews in Guyana in a certain month and then it is told that cashews don't grow in that month. People will ask you what kind of Guyanese you are. Jesus thought that he will find figs on the tree and when he realized that the tree doesn't have any figs since it was not the season for figs, he arrogantly cursed the tree. Imagine gentle Jesus cursing a tree which has done no wrong but was acting exactly as God made its nature. Wonder when Keith will really have a discussion instead of a sermon.
Wisdom Brings Joy
One of the most important tools in overcoming trials is wisdom. Ironically, this quality, which seems so rare in our world today, is actually readily and easily available to believers. Scripture says we simply have to ask, and God will give it generously.
Though wisdom certainly has rewards, it does come with a price. If we ask God to make us wise, He will allow tests in our life. Their purpose is not to point out what’s wrong with our faith but, rather, to help us discover whether or not we’re wise.
Temptations and difficulty also allow us to discern our level of devotion to the Lord. When we go through a time of testing, we learn whether we’re willing to say, “I don’t like this, God, and I don’t understand it, but I’m going to obey You no matter what.” There’s no way to know whether we would respond that way unless we go through trials that examine our faith.
We grow in our devotion to the heavenly Father by making wise decisions despite opposition and by obeying when it is inconvenient to do so or when temptations are the hardest to resist. Such challenges are similar to a refiner’s fire: They sanctify and purify us, raising to the surface attitudes that we may not realize are in our life. These situations not only reveal what God is doing in us but also can turn up the heat if we try to muffle the Holy Spirit’s guidance.
When we, through wisdom, allow God to do His work in our life, we will begin to experience blessings, see His power, and feel His love in new ways. And this new growth brings great joy!
ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
I am here to remind you who God is and to correct your misunderstand of what people like Darwin and others have being teaching you about God.
Jesus said, "He's the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him". He's the sacrificial lamb who blood was shed on Calvary.
Are we still sacrificing animals for the remission of our sins?
ksazma posted:skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
Bai Skelly, I have been debating Christians since 1980 so there is no chance I will ever be a Christian. The more I learn of Christianity, the less attractive it is.
Secondly, Keith claimed that he was not giving a sermon but just involved in a thought. If it is not a sermon, then exchanges of thoughts would be welcome. So it is time for Keith to drop the preaching and deal with thoughts independently. Everyone's preaching is beautiful so there is no chance what Keith preaches is going to sound any different from another person's preaching. Take for instance, Jesus never said that he is God or any part of any Triune God. He rebuked the man for calling him good telling the man that the only one who is good is God. He also said that he of his own can do NOTHING. He by the finger of God cast out devils. Imagine a God who can of his own do NOTHING. He didn't know that the reason there were no figs on the tree was because it was not the season for figs. Imagine if you tell someone that there will get cashews in Guyana in a certain month and then it is told that cashews don't grow in that month. People will ask you what kind of Guyanese you are. Jesus thought that he will find figs on the tree and when he realized that the tree doesn't have any figs since it was not the season for figs, he arrogantly cursed the tree. Imagine gentle Jesus cursing a tree which has done no wrong but was acting exactly as God made its nature. Wonder when Keith will really have a discussion instead of a sermon.
Got you all thinking didn't I?
skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
I am not a theologian, so I research, cut and paste some of the information and backing up the answers with words from the Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE), the word of God.
Every answers I have given you is covered in the BIBLE. Where are your answers coming from?
Former Member
Keith posted:skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
I am not a theologian, so I research, cut and paste some of the information and backing up the answers with words from the Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE), the word of God.
Every answers I have given you is covered in the BIBLE. Where are your answers coming from?
Critical thinking. I do not accept every written word in the bible or any other religious book. These reverends, priests etc. should go out and get a real job. Don't be a Jim Baker..listening to Sammy John's "Make Love in My Chevy Van and Paul Anka's "Having My Baby" while banging Jessica Hahn and getting rug burns. While he was doing this he was also robbing the poor old ladies of their last dollar. Remember Jimmy Swaggart getting caught with a prostitute? These men were supposedly men of Jesus. How can a Christian god forgive these men?
Former Member
Keith posted:Got you all thinking didn't I?
Dude, we were thinking long before you began this thread. If you think that anything you have posted so far is connecting with me, you think too much of what you are posting. I for one can live without it.
Seeking God’s Will
Parents train their children to do many tasks—from knowing which clothes match to handling money. As Christians, we are blessed to have an omniscient and mighty heavenly Father who is willing to make His way known to us. He wants to reveal what to do in every situation and, in fact, promises this: “I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you” (Psalm 32:8). Let’s explore how to discern God’s will at each crossroad of life.
The first step is to make sure that we have repented of all known sin in our life. Listening to the Lord while holding onto iniquity is like trying to use a foggy and unreadable compass. After confessing and repenting, we can ask for direction.
Next, we should read Scripture regularly with a seeking, open heart. The Bible is like a lamp on a dark path (Psalm 119:105).
The last step involves God’s indwelling Holy Spirit—the wonderful gift our Father has given each of His children. The Spirit provides truth and guidance as we read the Word and pray. We should listen patiently for His leading, which is often communicated quietly to our heart as we spend time with the Father.
When asking the Lord to reveal His will, we shouldn’t expect instant answers. The discipline of waiting builds character, and besides, rushing the process may lead to a path that misses God’s best. Take the time to seek Jesus’ plan for your life, remembering He’ll provide all you need to follow Him.
skeldon_man posted:Keith posted:skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
I am not a theologian, so I research, cut and paste some of the information and backing up the answers with words from the Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE), the word of God.
Every answers I have given you is covered in the BIBLE. Where are your answers coming from?Critical thinking. I do not accept every written word in the bible or any other religious book. These reverends, priests etc. should go out and get a real job. Don't be a Jim Baker..listening to Sammy John's "Make Love in My Chevy Van and Paul Anka's "Having My Baby" while banging Jessica Hahn and getting rug burns. While he was doing this he was also robbing the poor old ladies of their last dollar. Remember Jimmy Swaggart getting caught with a prostitute? These men were supposedly men of Jesus. How can a Christian god forgive these men?
Answer: That's man we all fall and are held accountable for our action. As the book of romans remind us, "There is none righteous, no, not one;"
Psalm 14:1-3 : 3 The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt; they have done abominable works; there is none that doeth good. 2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand and seek God. 3 They have all turned aside; they are all together become filthy. There is none that doeth good; no, not one.
On the subject of forgiveness, as Christians, we sin, but we know that God is faithful to forgive (1 John 1:9). God cleanses, and then He moves on. He does not hold our sins over us. Instead, He frees us from the slavery of sin and sets us free to experience a new life. Knowing the complete forgiveness of God in Christ, we can join King Hezekiah in praising our Redeemer: "You have put all my sins behind your back" (Isaiah 38:17). Like Paul, we can forget what is behind and "press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called us heavenward in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:13).
Isaiah 43:25 says, "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Hebrews 10 explains how Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross for sin was a once-and-for-all sacrifice. Unlike the sacrificial system of the Old Testament, in which sacrifices were continually made for sin, Jesus paid for sin once. His payment was complete. Hebrews 10:14–18 says, "For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: ‘This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.’ Then he adds: ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."
So when you fall is how you get up, repent seek forgiveness and thank God for being merciful b/c that's who He's, loving, merciful and is just to forgive us . That's the God who I server!
ksazma posted:Keith posted:Got you all thinking didn't I?
Dude, we were thinking long before you began this thread. If you think that anything you have posted so far is connecting with me, you think too much of what you are posting. I for one can live without it.
Thought: "The greatest tragedy in life is to live without God and spend eternity separated from God".....Only a thought, have a bless day fellows.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:Got you all thinking didn't I?
Dude, we were thinking long before you began this thread. If you think that anything you have posted so far is connecting with me, you think too much of what you are posting. I for one can live without it.
Thought: "The greatest tragedy in life is to live without God and spend eternity separated from God".....Only a thought, have a bless day fellows.
That is a belief, not a fact. It is even further stretched when one assumes that Jesus is God.
Former Member
Even Jesus said that he is not good. He said that ONLY God is good.
Former Member
ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:Got you all thinking didn't I?
Dude, we were thinking long before you began this thread. If you think that anything you have posted so far is connecting with me, you think too much of what you are posting. I for one can live without it.
Thought: "The greatest tragedy in life is to live without God and spend eternity separated from God".....Only a thought, have a bless day fellows.
That is a belief, not a fact. It is even further stretched when one assumes that Jesus is God.
Former Member
Keith posted:skeldon_man posted:Keith posted:skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Keith cuts and paste too much of the bible. It's boring to read. I hear this stuff on TV everyday. Hope he doesn't convert you to Christianity one day
I am not a theologian, so I research, cut and paste some of the information and backing up the answers with words from the Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE), the word of God.
Every answers I have given you is covered in the BIBLE. Where are your answers coming from?Critical thinking. I do not accept every written word in the bible or any other religious book. These reverends, priests etc. should go out and get a real job. Don't be a Jim Baker..listening to Sammy John's "Make Love in My Chevy Van and Paul Anka's "Having My Baby" while banging Jessica Hahn and getting rug burns. While he was doing this he was also robbing the poor old ladies of their last dollar. Remember Jimmy Swaggart getting caught with a prostitute? These men were supposedly men of Jesus. How can a Christian god forgive these men?
Answer: That's man we all fall and are held accountable for our action. As the book of romans remind us, "There is none righteous, no, not one;"
Psalm 14:1-3 : 3 The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt; they have done abominable works; there is none that doeth good. 2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand and seek God. 3 They have all turned aside; they are all together become filthy. There is none that doeth good; no, not one.
On the subject of forgiveness, as Christians, we sin, but we know that God is faithful to forgive (1 John 1:9). God cleanses, and then He moves on. He does not hold our sins over us. Instead, He frees us from the slavery of sin and sets us free to experience a new life. Knowing the complete forgiveness of God in Christ, we can join King Hezekiah in praising our Redeemer: "You have put all my sins behind your back" (Isaiah 38:17). Like Paul, we can forget what is behind and "press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called us heavenward in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:13).
Isaiah 43:25 says, "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Hebrews 10 explains how Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross for sin was a once-and-for-all sacrifice. Unlike the sacrificial system of the Old Testament, in which sacrifices were continually made for sin, Jesus paid for sin once. His payment was complete. Hebrews 10:14–18 says, "For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: ‘This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.’ Then he adds: ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."
So when you fall is how you get up, repent seek forgiveness and thank God for being merciful b/c that's who He's, loving, merciful and is just to forgive us . That's the God who I server!
Your cutting and pasting parts of the bible on this BB is waste of digital space. Critical thinking and an opposing point of view is required. We can all cut and paste. Without any criticism, we all follow like a blind man.
Former Member
Keith doesn't appear to understand what discussion means.
Former Member
ksazma posted:Keith doesn't appear to understand what discussion means.
Like you send brother Keith into hiding.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
Here is one for you Keith.
According to Luke, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel and Salathiel's father is Neri.
However, according to Matthew, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel but Salathiel's father is Jechonias.
Although there are thousands more, I chose Jesus' genealogy because I know you wish to remain focused on Jesus.
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Former Member
skeldon_man posted:ksazma posted:Keith doesn't appear to understand what discussion means.
Like you send brother Keith into hiding.
Maybe now that I posted one of those contradictions which I was talking about.
Pitfalls in Seeking God’s Will
As a pastor, I am frequently asked how to make the right decision in challenging circumstances. Sadly, I see many people make mistakes in this area.
For example, some people pray hastily for the Lord to lead them but do not listen for His answer. Instead, they make their own decision and trust that He will bless it. But expecting God to bless what is not of Him will lead to missing out on His best. To avoid disappointment, we must be aware of several pitfalls that interfere with hearing His direction accurately.
First, be mindful of fleshly desires. Wants are not necessarily wrong, but longings become unhealthy when they consume our thoughts. Eventually, we might believe that our desired outcome is God’s will, when in reality, we weren’t really listening to His voice.
Second, watch out for faulty advice. Even well-meaning Christian friends can lead us in the wrong direction. We should carefully seek counsel from those who walk closely with Jesus and are grounded in His Word.
Third, be careful when you are feeling impatient, doubtful, or pressured in any way. These emotions can lead you to make rash decisions apart from the Lord’s best for your life. Patience is hard, but His perfect will is always worth the wait.
Determine to follow God’s leading. Do this by cleansing your heart, asking for guidance, waiting, and listening. When you trusted Christ as Savior, His Holy Spirit came into your heart and sealed you as His child. He will teach you how to live a godly life—direction is yours if you ask and believe.
Former Member
Keith posted:Pitfalls in Seeking God’s Will
As a pastor, I am frequently asked how to make the right decision in challenging circumstances. Sadly, I see many people make mistakes in this area.
First, be mindful of fleshly desires. Wants are not necessarily wrong, but longings become unhealthy when they consume our thoughts. Eventually, we might believe that our desired outcome is God’s will, when in reality, we weren’t really listening to His voice.
Too bad you could not give this advice to Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart.
Did Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart listened to god's voice before they unleashed their lustful desires on those women? These lustful steeds are/were men of god. Maybe they were having a religious party where they read the bible and drank alcohol. Oh, by the way, I was considered a heathen by the bible school fanatics.
Former Member
Swaggart used to claim that he had a direct line with God. Wonder if he used a red phone like mine?
ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
Here is one for you Keith.
According to Luke, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel and Salathiel's father is Neri.
However, according to Matthew, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel but Salathiel's father is Jechonias.
Although there are thousands more, I chose Jesus' genealogy because I know you wish to remain focused on Jesus.
Answer: Once again understand what you are reading before you post. Did you ever read the bible from Genesis to Revelation? I assume you never did and even if you did you probable care not to understand and just have that as a notch to say I read the bible from beginning to end. With that being said allow me to educate you both. As you pointed out
Jesus' genealogy is given in two places in Scripture: Matthew 1 and Luke 3:23-38. Matthew traces the genealogy from Jesus to Abraham. Luke traces the genealogy from Jesus to Adam. However, there is good reason to believe that Matthew and Luke are in fact tracing entirely different genealogies. For example, Matthew gives Joseph's father as Jacob (Matthew 1:16), while Luke gives Joseph's father as Heli (Luke 3:23). Matthew traces the line through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6), while Luke traces the line through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31). In fact, between David and Jesus, the only names the genealogies have in common are Shealtiel and Zerubbabel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27).
Like you and many others point to these differences as evidence of errors in the Bible. However, the Jews were meticulous record keepers, especially in regard to genealogies. It is inconceivable that Matthew and Luke could build two entirely contradictory genealogies of the same lineage. Again, from David through Jesus, the genealogies are completely different. Even the reference to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel likely refer to different individuals of the same names. Matthew gives Shealtiel's father as Jeconiah while Luke gives Shealtiel's father as Neri. It would be normal for a man named Shealtiel to name his son Zerubbabel in light of the famous individuals of those names, read the books of Ezra and Nehemiah.
According to and historian, Eusebius, "Matthew is tracing the primary, or biological, lineage while Luke is taking into account an occurrence of "levirate marriage." If a man died without having any sons, it was tradition for the man’s brother to marry the widow and have a son who would carry on the deceased man’s name." His theory, "Melchi (Luke 3:24) and Matthan (Matthew 1:15) were married at different times to the same woman, tradition names her Estha. This would make Heli (Luke 3:23) and Jacob (Matthew 1:15) half-brothers. Heli then died without a son, and so his (half-)brother Jacob married Heil’s widow, who gave birth to Joseph. This would make Joseph the "son of Heli" legally and the “son of Jacob” biologically. Thus, Matthew and Luke are both recording the same genealogy (Joseph’s), but Luke follows the legal lineage while Matthew follows the biological."
ksazma posted:Swaggart used to claim that he had a direct line with God. Wonder if he used a red phone like mine?
You should ask him...Maybe he was borrowing your while you were away 
Matthew's list Luke's list (in inverse order)
David David
Solomon Nathan
Rehoboam Mattatha
Abijah Menna
Asa Melea
Jehoshaphat Eliakim
Jehoram Jonam
Uzziah Joseph
Jotham Judah
Ahaz Simeon
Hezekiah Levi
Manasseh Matthat
Amon Jorim
Josiah Eliezer
Jeconiah Joshua
Shealtiel............ Er
Zerubbabel........ . Elmadam
Abiud . . Cosam
Eliakim . . Addi
Azor ? ? Melki
Zakok . . Neri
Akim . ............Shealtiel
Eliud ...............Zerubbabel
Eleazar Rhesa
Matthan Joanan
Jacob Joda
Joseph (husband of Mary) Josech
Jesus Semein
Mattathias
Maath
Naggai
Esli
Nahum
Amos
Mattathias
Joseph
Jannai
Melki
Levi
Matthat
Heli
Joseph
Jesus ("the son, so it was
thought, of Joseph")
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
Here is one for you Keith.
According to Luke, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel and Salathiel's father is Neri.
However, according to Matthew, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel but Salathiel's father is Jechonias.
Although there are thousands more, I chose Jesus' genealogy because I know you wish to remain focused on Jesus.
Answer: Once again understand what you are reading before you post. Did you ever read the bible from Genesis to Revelation? I assume you never did and even if you did you probable care not to understand and just have that as a notch to say I read the bible from beginning to end. With that being said allow me to educate you both. As you pointed out
Jesus' genealogy is given in two places in Scripture: Matthew 1 and Luke 3:23-38. Matthew traces the genealogy from Jesus to Abraham. Luke traces the genealogy from Jesus to Adam. However, there is good reason to believe that Matthew and Luke are in fact tracing entirely different genealogies. For example, Matthew gives Joseph's father as Jacob (Matthew 1:16), while Luke gives Joseph's father as Heli (Luke 3:23). Matthew traces the line through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6), while Luke traces the line through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31). In fact, between David and Jesus, the only names the genealogies have in common are Shealtiel and Zerubbabel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27).Like you and many others point to these differences as evidence of errors in the Bible. However, the Jews were meticulous record keepers, especially in regard to genealogies. It is inconceivable that Matthew and Luke could build two entirely contradictory genealogies of the same lineage. Again, from David through Jesus, the genealogies are completely different. Even the reference to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel likely refer to different individuals of the same names. Matthew gives Shealtiel's father as Jeconiah while Luke gives Shealtiel's father as Neri. It would be normal for a man named Shealtiel to name his son Zerubbabel in light of the famous individuals of those names, read the books of Ezra and Nehemiah.
According to and historian, Eusebius, "Matthew is tracing the primary, or biological, lineage while Luke is taking into account an occurrence of "levirate marriage." If a man died without having any sons, it was tradition for the man’s brother to marry the widow and have a son who would carry on the deceased man’s name." His theory, "Melchi (Luke 3:24) and Matthan (Matthew 1:15) were married at different times to the same woman, tradition names her Estha. This would make Heli (Luke 3:23) and Jacob (Matthew 1:15) half-brothers. Heli then died without a son, and so his (half-)brother Jacob married Heil’s widow, who gave birth to Joseph. This would make Joseph the "son of Heli" legally and the “son of Jacob” biologically. Thus, Matthew and Luke are both recording the same genealogy (Joseph’s), but Luke follows the legal lineage while Matthew follows the biological."
I wonder if what you wrote above made you as dizzy as it made me. That is one helluva roundabout explanation. Maybe that works in your church but it wouldn't with clear thinking people.
Now lets put all that gymnastics aside and deal with just the names I referenced.
1. Is Zorababel in Matthew 1:16 and Zorababel in Luke 3:22 the same person?
Just a yes or no answer please. Thanks.
Im reading all of this and find some very informative pieces. One in particular which I would like more info on is that of the Fig tree. That thing makes all knowing Bro' Jesu seem quite a dummy.
Former Member
cain posted:Im reading all of this and find some very informative pieces. One in particular which I would like more info on is that of the Fig tree. That thing makes all knowing Bro' Jesu seem quite a dummy.
A few things to consider here.
Firstly, Jesus is supposedly God and also hungry. Christians don't believe in a hungry God but the preachers make the exception for Jesus because they say he is different. Christian preachers demean Hindus for their beliefs and worships but when you point out that the story of Jesus and his life on earth is similar, they say Jesus is different.
Secondly, he say a fig tree in the distance and was happy to see it since he was hungry. But when he got to the tree, he was disappointed because there were no fruits on the tree. Why was there no fruits on the tree? Because it was not the season for fruits to be on that tree. One would expect that God would know it is fig season or not. A little kid in Guyana can tell you if it is mango season or not in Guyana.
Thirdly, this is the part that gets the least bit of attention. We learn everyday of the importance of positive attitude. How does Jesus respond to his own silly assumption that there would be figs on the tree? He got pissed off and cursed the tree. Imagine that of all the possible responses that Gentle Jesus could have had, he chose getting pissed off and cursing a tree which has done nothing wrong since it is nature that determines the seasons not the trees. My man Keith would like you to accept Jesus poor response to his silly assumption as righteous indignation. Why? Because Jesus is different.
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ksazma posted:cain posted:Im reading all of this and find some very informative pieces. One in particular which I would like more info on is that of the Fig tree. That thing makes all knowing Bro' Jesu seem quite a dummy.
A few things to consider here.
Firstly, Jesus is supposedly God and also hungry. Christians don't believe in a hungry God but the preachers make the exception for Jesus because they say he is different. Christian preachers demean Hindus for their beliefs and worships but when you point out that the story of Jesus and his life on earth is similar, they say Jesus is different.
Answer: I don't know what you are talking about here so I will not say much on this subject. But here is a different for you I don't have to build and shape into an image to worship the thing I just built.....that's call idol worship. I worship the God that eternal, immortal and invisible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God that have not failed me yet. He's been my provider and healer a present help in time of need, try Him sometime you wouldn't be disappointed.
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Secondly, he say a fig tree in the distance and was happy to see it since he was hungry. But when he got to the tree, he was disappointed because there were no fruits on the tree. Why was there no fruits on the tree? Because it was not the season for fruits to be on that tree. One would expect that God would know it is fig season or not. A little kid in Guyana can tell you if it is mango season or not in Guyana.
Answer: In Mark 11:12–14, 20–21. Jesus did not explain why He cursed the fig tree, but a little knowledge about fig trees, combined with the circumstances described in the scriptures, helps us to understand the symbolism of what Jesus did. The kind of a fig tree mentioned in Mark 11 produces an early fig, even before it is full with leaves. The main crop of figs comes later. If a tree produces no early figs, it will produce no fruit at all that year. A tree with leaves (as both Mark and Matthew described it) should also have fruit, but that tree was barren. We could say that the tree gave the appearance of having fruit but actually had none. That is like the Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day. They appeared righteous, but theirs was a hypocritical and empty righteousness. Consequently, Jesus cursed this tree of hypocrisy that symbolized the condition of the leaders of God’s covenant people.
Jesus used this incident to teach His disciples and even us today that the outward appearance does not count with God. Instead, what really counts is whether or not one produces godly fruit in his or her life (John 15:8, 16; Galatians 5:22-23).
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Thirdly, this is the part that gets the least bit of attention. We learn everyday of the importance of positive attitude. How does Jesus respond to his own silly assumption that there would be figs on the tree? He got pissed off and cursed the tree. Imagine that of all the possible responses that Gentle Jesus could have had, he chose getting pissed off and cursing a tree which has done nothing wrong since it is nature that determines the seasons not the trees. My man Keith would like you to accept Jesus poor response to his silly assumption as righteous indignation. Why? Because Jesus is different.
Answer: Read the above answer and you will see the lesson that was being taught that you missed.
Please read and understand what you are reading. Take care all have a blessed weekend. Love you all brothers.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:cain posted:Im reading all of this and find some very informative pieces. One in particular which I would like more info on is that of the Fig tree. That thing makes all knowing Bro' Jesu seem quite a dummy.
A few things to consider here.
Firstly, Jesus is supposedly God and also hungry. Christians don't believe in a hungry God but the preachers make the exception for Jesus because they say he is different. Christian preachers demean Hindus for their beliefs and worships but when you point out that the story of Jesus and his life on earth is similar, they say Jesus is different.
Answer: I don't know what you are talking about here so I will not say much on this subject. But here is a different for you I don't have to build and shape into an image to worship the thing I just built.....that's call idol worship. I worship the God that eternal, immortal and invisible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God that have not failed me yet. He's been my provider and healer a present help in time of need, try Him sometime you wouldn't be disappointed.
I am not talking about God dude. I am talking about Jesus. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is NOT Jesus. You don't have any proof that God exist either. All you feel is what you feel, not what is fact.
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Secondly, he say a fig tree in the distance and was happy to see it since he was hungry. But when he got to the tree, he was disappointed because there were no fruits on the tree. Why was there no fruits on the tree? Because it was not the season for fruits to be on that tree. One would expect that God would know it is fig season or not. A little kid in Guyana can tell you if it is mango season or not in Guyana.
Answer: In Mark 11:12–14, 20–21. Jesus did not explain why He cursed the fig tree, but a little knowledge about fig trees, combined with the circumstances described in the scriptures, helps us to understand the symbolism of what Jesus did. The kind of a fig tree mentioned in Mark 11 produces an early fig, even before it is full with leaves. The main crop of figs comes later. If a tree produces no early figs, it will produce no fruit at all that year. A tree with leaves (as both Mark and Matthew described it) should also have fruit, but that tree was barren. We could say that the tree gave the appearance of having fruit but actually had none. That is like the Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day. They appeared righteous, but theirs was a hypocritical and empty righteousness. Consequently, Jesus cursed this tree of hypocrisy that symbolized the condition of the leaders of God’s covenant people.
Jesus used this incident to teach His disciples and even us today that the outward appearance does not count with God. Instead, what really counts is whether or not one produces godly fruit in his or her life (John 15:8, 16; Galatians 5:22-23).
It clearly stated in the passage that the time was not YET. Not EVER. Also, trees have leaves all the time while they don't have fruits all the time clearly evident by this particular tree. If your argument now is that since it had no early figs, therefore it will have no figs that year, why curse the tree for eternity which is what Jesus did when he got pissed off. If it was barren as you tries another angle to get around your conundrum why does Jesus waste cursing a tree that is already barren. Jesus would be described in Guyana as a lungera because all he did is walk around for three years wasting time.
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Thirdly, this is the part that gets the least bit of attention. We learn everyday of the importance of positive attitude. How does Jesus respond to his own silly assumption that there would be figs on the tree? He got pissed off and cursed the tree. Imagine that of all the possible responses that Gentle Jesus could have had, he chose getting pissed off and cursing a tree which has done nothing wrong since it is nature that determines the seasons not the trees. My man Keith would like you to accept Jesus poor response to his silly assumption as righteous indignation. Why? Because Jesus is different.
Answer: Read the above answer and you will see the lesson that was being taught that you missed.
Now you read my response above where I point out that your response is unacceptable. Jesus showed terrible judgment and attitude. He screwed up with his silly assumption and instead of just saying "my bad, I messed up" he belligerently cursed a tree. What would he have done if it was a dog? Kick it?
Please read and understand what you are reading. Take care all have a blessed weekend. Love you all brothers.
Fortunately reading is not the problem. It is the nonsense that pastors are hoping to slip by unsuspecting people. Like seeking to pass off a sermon as "just a thought".
Former Member
My idrine Keith challenged me to list one contradiction so we can discuss it. I posed the following one to him and am still waiting for his direct answer.
1. Is Zorababel in Matthew 1:16 and Zorababel in Luke 3:22 the same person?
Just a yes or no answer please. Thanks.
Look understand that my weekend is spent with the family, I don't have time to rush to the computer to see what you both misguided folks are trying to peddle.
There are times I will take awhile to answer your questions and that is because I'm searching the scriptures and finding the answers or looking at what a few biblical scholars have to say about the subject matter so I can present a clear understanding of what's being asked.
Now as for your question above, requiring a yes/no answer, it will get answer today. So just be patient.
How was your weekend?
Oh yes, if it pleases you both let's ask the Admin to change the current title to, "It's a sermon alright and a whole lot to think about", how about that? Just so you both could stop the nagging.
It's obvious that something is really troubling you both but let's get something clear, whatever you have to say here will not remove me from the solid rock on which I stand.
I am going to say it again incase you missed it, JESUS IS LORD! NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. He is the way the truth and the life.
Therefore if you are here to persuade me otherwise you are wasting your time my friend. If you are here to peddle false or misguided statements then you are in the right place. I am only using the BIBLE which have all the answers to whatever you can think to come at me with.
I come to you with the BIBLE, what you have? Is it just your thought process and a few of Darwin and the likes of him statements you have?
Former Member
Keith posted:Look understand that my weekend is spent with the family, I don't have time to rush to the computer to see what you both misguided folks are trying to peddle.
There are times I will take awhile to answer your questions and that is because I'm searching the scriptures and finding the answers or looking at what a few biblical scholars have to say about the subject matter so I can present a clear understanding of what's being asked.
Now as for your question above, requiring a yes/no answer, it will get answer today. So just be patient.
How was your weekend?
Oh yes, if it pleases you both let's ask the Admin to change the current title to, "It's a sermon alright and a whole lot to think about", how about that? Just so you both could stop the nagging.
It's obvious that something is really troubling you both but let's get something clear, whatever you have to say here will not remove me from the solid rock on which I stand.
I am going to say it again incase you missed it, JESUS IS LORD! NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. He is the way the truth and the life.
Therefore if you are here to persuade me otherwise you are wasting your time my friend. If you are here to peddle false or misguided statements then you are in the right place. I am only using the BIBLE which have all the answers to whatever you can think to come at me with.
I come to you with the BIBLE, what you have? Is it just your thought process and a few of Darwin and the likes of him statements you have?
Take your time pardnah. I am a bit disappointed because I wouldn't have expected that you still need to clarify if Zarobabel mentioned in the two passages are one and the same person or two different people.
The Landmine of Laziness
Many people never stop to realize that laziness is a sin. But like any other landmine, it has the potential to hurt or destroy lives. To be constantly idle and fruitless is contrary to scriptural teachings. And anything that goes against God’s Word is a sin. In the parable of the talents, Jesus said of the servant who’d buried his master’s money, “You wicked, lazy servant!” (See Matt. 25:26 NIV.) The Lord put both wickedness and slothfulness into the same undesirable category.
The book of Proverbs gives us a description of the lazy person. First, he is a procrastinator—somebody who puts off what needs to be done (Prov. 20:4). Second, he uses any excuse to avoid work (Prov. 22:13). Third, he wastes time (Prov. 6:9-11). And finally, a slothful person is neglectful and careless with regard to what’s going on around him (Prov. 24:30-32).
Laziness does not fit who we are as believers. Our Father expects us to live purposefully and work conscientiously; to be lazy and turn out a poor performance damages our testimony. Proverbs 25:19 warns, “Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time trouble.” A lazy, untrustworthy person leaves tasks unfinished and, as a result, is a poor witness for Christ. What will unbelievers see in such a life that they would desire for themselves?
We have a wonderful opportunity to participate in God’s work, and that includes performing well in our vocation as a demonstration of obedience. Choose to work for Him today.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:Look understand that my weekend is spent with the family, I don't have time to rush to the computer to see what you both misguided folks are trying to peddle.
There are times I will take awhile to answer your questions and that is because I'm searching the scriptures and finding the answers or looking at what a few biblical scholars have to say about the subject matter so I can present a clear understanding of what's being asked.
Now as for your question above, requiring a yes/no answer, it will get answer today. So just be patient.
How was your weekend?
Oh yes, if it pleases you both let's ask the Admin to change the current title to, "It's a sermon alright and a whole lot to think about", how about that? Just so you both could stop the nagging.
It's obvious that something is really troubling you both but let's get something clear, whatever you have to say here will not remove me from the solid rock on which I stand.
I am going to say it again incase you missed it, JESUS IS LORD! NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. He is the way the truth and the life.
Therefore if you are here to persuade me otherwise you are wasting your time my friend. If you are here to peddle false or misguided statements then you are in the right place. I am only using the BIBLE which have all the answers to whatever you can think to come at me with.
I come to you with the BIBLE, what you have? Is it just your thought process and a few of Darwin and the likes of him statements you have?
Take your time pardnah. I am a bit disappointed because I wouldn't have expected that you still need to clarify if Zarobabel mentioned in the two passages are one and the same person or two different people.
Answer: Unlike you I like to support what I am saying with facts directly from the bible and from theologians who are more knowledgeable than I'm on these subjects. With that being you will find your answer in the link below and in the attach file. Read....
https://mindrenewers.com/2013/...nealogies-of-christ/
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Here are some commentaries for you to digest.
Ellicott's Commentary
(12) Jechonias begat Salathiel.—We come here into a cluster of genealogical difficulties. (1) The natural impression left by Jeremiah 22:30 is that Coniah (or Jechonias) died childless, or, at least, left no descendants who came to rule as Zerubbabel did; (2) In the genealogy given by St. Luke (Luke 3:27), Salathiel is named as the son of Neri; (3) In 1Chronicles 3:17-19, Salathiel is the son of Assir, the son of Jeconiah, and Zerubbabel the son of Pedaiah, the brother of Salathiel. It is not easy to see our way through these difficulties; but the most probable solution is that Assir was the only son of Jeconiah, and died without issue before his father; that the line of Solomon thus came to an end, and that the descendants of Nathan, another son of David, took their place in the succession, and were reckoned, as by adoption, as the sons of the last survivor of the other line. The practice is, it may be noted, analogous to that which prevails among Indian princes, and in other Eastern nations. (Comp. Note on Luke 3:23-38.)
Matthew 1:12. And after they were brought to Babylon — After the Babylonish captivity commenced, Jechonias begat Salathiel — It is here objected, that God said concerning this Jeconiah, called also Coniah, Jeremiah 22:30, Write ye this man childless: How then did he beget Salathiel? This objection is easily answered, for that verse, (where see the note,) expounds itself: it being added, a man that shall not prosper in his days; for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. The expression, therefore, manifestly means, without a child that shall actually succeed in the kingdom: for the text itself supposes that he should have seed, but none that should prosper, sitting on the throne of David and ruling in Judah: which is according to the sacred history, (2 Chronicles 36.,) for the king of Babylon set up Zedekiah, his uncle, in his stead, who was the last king of Judah, in the 11th year of whose reign the Jews were carried away captive. Salathiel begat Zorobabel — Here is another difficulty: for, 1 Chronicles 3:19, we read, The sons of Pedaiah were Zerubbabel and Shimei: now if Zerubbabel was the son of Pedaiah, how could he be the son of Salathiel? In answer to this, let it be observed, 1st, that Salathiel might die without issue, and Pedaiah, his brother, might marry his widow, (according to the law of God, Deuteronomy 25:5,) to raise up seed to his brother. Zerubbabel, being the fruit of this marriage, would of course be called the son of Salathiel and the son of Pedaiah. Or, secondly, there might be two persons of the name of Zerubbabel; one the son of Salathiel, and the other the son of his brother Pedaiah. This seems very likely, considering that the word Zerubbabel signifies a stranger in Babylon, a name which very probably would be given to several children born in the captivity. Be this as it may, the Zerubbabel here mentioned was that illustrious person who was the chief instrument of restoring and settling the Jewish commonwealth, on their return from captivity.
Former Member
As my good friend Nehru would say, lots of kakamania here. If one cannot say if the two references are the same person, why should anyone accept that God came down to earth in a human form especially since that human form seemed clueless of the most basic things like if it was fig season or not.
Former Member
There are also two misconceptions that you should be mindful of. Firstly the Bible is not fact. It is a book that it's believers believe in. Secondly, don't kid yourself that Skelly and I are troubled in some way. My response was primarily to a particular statement you made (go back and see which one). Everything I did since was because you demonstrated that while you wish to peddle your belief, you haven't taken the time to acknowledge that others may reasonably have a different point of view. All I intend to do is make you chase your tail and so far you are playing by my rules because you have no choice since you chose the tunnel vision approach.
Former Member
So again I ask, is the Zarobabel mentioned in the two passages the same person or two different people? Your yes or no. Not what others think. At some point in our lives we have to think for ourselves. Don't you agree?
ksazma posted:As my good friend Nehru would say, lots of kakamania here. If one cannot say if the two references are the same person, why should anyone accept that God came down to earth in a human form especially since that human form seemed clueless of the most basic things like if it was fig season or not.
Hey all it imply is for you to read and understand what you have read. What's conclusion did you drawn from reading it. Are we that lazy to read these days?
I assume you are Hindu, like your good friend Nehru. Let me ask you this, have you ever giving thought to this scripture before, you probably hear it before, pay attentions to the words:
Genesis 1:26-28 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Question: Who was he talking too?
That was in the old testament book of Genesis incase you miss it. Now lets look at John 1 in the new testament.
John 1:1-5 :: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Question: Who was the word? Lets look at a few more verses in John 1.
John 1:6-14 :: 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
ksazma posted:There are also two misconceptions that you should be mindful of. Firstly the Bible is not fact. It is a book that it's believers believe in. Secondly, don't kid yourself that Skelly and I are troubled in some way. My response was primarily to a particular statement you made (go back and see which one). Everything I did since was because you demonstrated that while you wish to peddle your belief, you haven't taken the time to acknowledge that others may reasonably have a different point of view. All I intend to do is make you chase your tail and so far you are playing by my rules because you have no choice since you chose the tunnel vision approach.
The bible is the infallibility word of God. You are troubled, I didn't went looking for you and questioning you, you came here peddling your false statements with malicious intent but you see the infallibility word will always stand to correct you and the likes of you.
Now is time for me to ask you and your buddy a few questions starting with the ones in my previous post. Those are warm up Qs.
ksazma posted:So again I ask, is the Zarobabel mentioned in the two passages the same person or two different people? Your yes or no. Not what others think. At some point in our lives we have to think for ourselves. Don't you agree?
And again I asked you what conclusion you have drawn base on what you have read?
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:There are also two misconceptions that you should be mindful of. Firstly the Bible is not fact. It is a book that it's believers believe in. Secondly, don't kid yourself that Skelly and I are troubled in some way. My response was primarily to a particular statement you made (go back and see which one). Everything I did since was because you demonstrated that while you wish to peddle your belief, you haven't taken the time to acknowledge that others may reasonably have a different point of view. All I intend to do is make you chase your tail and so far you are playing by my rules because you have no choice since you chose the tunnel vision approach.
The bible is the infallibility word of God. You are troubled, I didn't went looking for you and questioning you, you came here peddling your false statements with malicious intent but you see the infallibility word will always stand to correct you and the likes of you.
Now is time for me to ask you and your buddy a few questions starting with the ones in my previous post. Those are warm up Qs.
I can see you just take the bible as it is written. Do you really ask yourself if there are hidden messages from your god in the bible? Seems like that all you do is cut from the bible and paste. I take it you went to Bob Jones University.
Like I said, I have been around Christian Seminary students for a least 3 years. I have heard it all and could tell that if they did not attend bible school, they might end up at Walmart pushing a cart(not knocking anyone working).
Any fool can repeat what's in the bible if that's all they hear 24/7.
Former Member
Keith, you are free to ask questions but protocol demands that you answer the questions first asked to you. But I may caution you that you may end up regretting it because I know the Bible very well. Now are you going to answer the one simple question or are you going to just run and hide? Another thing, why do you say that you didn't go looking for me? Who were you looking for when you began this topic with it's deceitful title? Is that how you are trained? To deceive others?
skeldon_man posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:There are also two misconceptions that you should be mindful of. Firstly the Bible is not fact. It is a book that it's believers believe in. Secondly, don't kid yourself that Skelly and I are troubled in some way. My response was primarily to a particular statement you made (go back and see which one). Everything I did since was because you demonstrated that while you wish to peddle your belief, you haven't taken the time to acknowledge that others may reasonably have a different point of view. All I intend to do is make you chase your tail and so far you are playing by my rules because you have no choice since you chose the tunnel vision approach.
The bible is the infallibility word of God. You are troubled, I didn't went looking for you and questioning you, you came here peddling your false statements with malicious intent but you see the infallibility word will always stand to correct you and the likes of you.
Now is time for me to ask you and your buddy a few questions starting with the ones in my previous post. Those are warm up Qs.I can see you just take the bible as it is written. Do you really ask yourself if there are hidden messages from your god in the bible? Seems like that all you do is cut from the bible and paste. I take it you went to Bob Jones University.
Like I said, I have been around Christian Seminary students for a least 3 years. I have heard it all and could tell that if they did not attend bible school, they might end up at Walmart pushing a cart(not knocking anyone working).Any fool can repeat what's in the bible if that's all they hear 24/7.
My answers comes from the Bible that's the best place to find the answers to the questions being posed. Unlike you, I don't go around quoting Darwin or Stephen Hawking. You ask a question concern something in the Bible there is verses and chapters there in to address your questions.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:So again I ask, is the Zarobabel mentioned in the two passages the same person or two different people? Your yes or no. Not what others think. At some point in our lives we have to think for ourselves. Don't you agree?
And again I asked you what conclusion you have drawn base on what you have read?
I have my conclusion. You challenged me to present a contradiction which I did by posting the two passages which you keep running from. Go ahead, man up an answer it.
Former Member
Funny how that Bible can't help you answer a simple question about whether Zorababel mentioned in the two passages is the same person. That book must be full of holes that requires on to follow it without asking any logical questions.
ksazma posted:Keith, you are free to ask questions but protocol demands that you answer the questions first asked to you. But I may caution you that you may end up regretting it because I know the Bible very well. Now are you going to answer the one simple question or are you going to just run and hide? Another thing, why do you say that you didn't go looking for me? Who were you looking for when you began this topic with it's deceitful title? Is that how you are trained? To deceive others?
Read, you will find my answer.
As I stated before if there is a problem with the title lets have admin change it I agreed with you there, case close on that subject. You know the Bible and yet don't comprehend anything, I don't understand it all myself but I study and learn and I find truth.
Here is a statement from the Bible that still hold true unto this day.
Numbers 33:50-55 :: 50 And the Lord spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,
51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;
52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.
54 And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.
55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
Former Member
Keith posted:skeldon_man posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:There are also two misconceptions that you should be mindful of. Firstly the Bible is not fact. It is a book that it's believers believe in. Secondly, don't kid yourself that Skelly and I are troubled in some way. My response was primarily to a particular statement you made (go back and see which one). Everything I did since was because you demonstrated that while you wish to peddle your belief, you haven't taken the time to acknowledge that others may reasonably have a different point of view. All I intend to do is make you chase your tail and so far you are playing by my rules because you have no choice since you chose the tunnel vision approach.
The bible is the infallibility word of God. You are troubled, I didn't went looking for you and questioning you, you came here peddling your false statements with malicious intent but you see the infallibility word will always stand to correct you and the likes of you.
Now is time for me to ask you and your buddy a few questions starting with the ones in my previous post. Those are warm up Qs.I can see you just take the bible as it is written. Do you really ask yourself if there are hidden messages from your god in the bible? Seems like that all you do is cut from the bible and paste. I take it you went to Bob Jones University.
Like I said, I have been around Christian Seminary students for a least 3 years. I have heard it all and could tell that if they did not attend bible school, they might end up at Walmart pushing a cart(not knocking anyone working).Any fool can repeat what's in the bible if that's all they hear 24/7.
My answers comes from the Bible that's the best place to find the answers to the questions being posed. Unlike you, I don't go around quoting Darwin or Stephen Hawking. You ask a question concern something in the Bible there is verses and chapters there in to address your questions.
Yeah! I bet that's all you know.
Former Member
Keith, why are you being so evasive? Why can't you answer a simple question? What in that passage you posted still hold true today?
Former Member
Keith posted:Answer: 40 authors wrote the Bible over a period of 1,500 years. These Bible writers wrote as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit (READ: 2 Timothy 3:16-17). Moses was the first person to write portions of Scripture while John the disciple of Jesus was the last. Other famous people who wrote the Bible include: David, Daniel, Peter, Paul, Jonah, Isaiah, Solomon and David.
The Scripture says in II Peter 1:20-21, "You must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
The Holy Spirit revealed to the prophets the messages of Scripture. The writers of the Bible wrote not according to their own will or whim, but only as they were moved, or controlled, by the Spirit of God. The Bible is God's own book!
II Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." The Holy Bible affects human beings so profoundly because "all" the Bible is "God-breathed." It's more than a nice collection of moral principles; it's more than a great book; it's an inspired document, God's book. The prophets who wrote the Bible related what they saw and heard in human language, but their message came directly from God.
I 'm awaiting your questions concerning the Hold Spirit.
Please explain these passages as they relate to 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Thank you.
(16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Ezekiel 23
1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
9 Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.
10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.
11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.
12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.
13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,
14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,
15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:
16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.
17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose emission is like the emission of horses.
21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.
22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;
23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.
24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.
25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.
26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.
27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.
28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:
29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.
31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.
32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.
33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.
34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.
40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,
41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.
42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.
43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?
44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.
45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.
46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.
47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.
48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.
49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.
Former Member
Keith posted:
Do we all sin? The Bible teaches that we all inherit sin from the first man, Adam. (Romans 5:12) Some translations seem to contradict this by saying that a good person "does no sin" or "sinneth not." (1 John 3:6, The Bible in Basic English; King James Version) In the original language, though, the Greek verb for "sin" at 1 John 3:6 is in the present tense, which in that language normally indicates a continuous action. There is a difference between inherited sin, which we cannot avoid, and the deliberate, continuous practice of disobeying God’s laws. Thus, some translations clear up this seeming contradiction by accurately using phrases such as “does not practice sin” or “does not habitually sin.”—New World Translation; Phillips.
So from whom did Adam inherit sin?
What is this sin that we cannot avoid?
Former Member
ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
KeithMember
Here is one for you Keith.
According to Luke, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel and Salathiel's father is Neri.
However, according to Matthew, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel but Salathiel's father is Jechonias.
Although there are thousands more, I chose Jesus' genealogy because I know you wish to remain focused on Jesus.
Just for the record, Keith challenged me back on 1/17/17 to present a contradiction and he is still chasing his tail one week later. And ironically, the question he has been running from is not even a contradictory one but a similarity one.
ksazma posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
KeithMember
Here is one for you Keith.
According to Luke, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel and Salathiel's father is Neri.
However, according to Matthew, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel but Salathiel's father is Jechonias.
Although there are thousands more, I chose Jesus' genealogy because I know you wish to remain focused on Jesus.
Just for the record, Keith challenged me back on 1/17/17 to present a contradiction and he is still chasing his tail one week later. And ironically, the question he has been running from is not even a contradictory one but a similarity one.
And for the record reread my previous post/comments in reference to your questions and draw your own conclusion.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:
Do we all sin? The Bible teaches that we all inherit sin from the first man, Adam. (Romans 5:12) Some translations seem to contradict this by saying that a good person "does no sin" or "sinneth not." (1 John 3:6, The Bible in Basic English; King James Version) In the original language, though, the Greek verb for "sin" at 1 John 3:6 is in the present tense, which in that language normally indicates a continuous action. There is a difference between inherited sin, which we cannot avoid, and the deliberate, continuous practice of disobeying God’s laws. Thus, some translations clear up this seeming contradiction by accurately using phrases such as “does not practice sin” or “does not habitually sin.”—New World Translation; Phillips.
So from whom did Adam inherit sin?
What is this sin that we cannot avoid?
Go and read the book of Genesis or when you find something that support your question then lets have a discussion.
What God Thinks of Slothfulness
Slothfulness is an act of rebellion toward the Lord. He created us with a sense of purpose so that we would be productive. When we choose to be lazy, we are guilty of wastefulness because we have each received a special gift that is being squandered (1 Peter 4:10).
Lazy people live in a bubble of self-absorption. The only thing that matters to them is that they get what they want. This is in direct conflict with Scripture, which says we are to regard one another as more important than ourselves (Phil. 2:3). For instance, when we are deliberately slow on the job, we are not regarding our boss as important.
We are called to walk in discipline and service to God, and He is displeased if we approach work with a negligent attitude (Jer. 48:10). Whatever we do in life, God will reward us for doing it well. I bagged groceries and washed cars to make money for school. No matter what the task was, I always worked in the best way I knew how. That was something I learned from my mother, who worked 40 years in a textile mill and never complained.
People often make excuses for their laziness—they blame their home environment, poor self-esteem, or a negative attitude. But God does not accept our excuses. He gives us clear instructions for overcoming laziness: “Go to the ant, O sluggard; observe her ways and be wise” (Prov. 6:6). The ant works, prepares, and provides. In other words, we are to work with diligence in all that we do. Our personal responsibility to Jesus Christ is always to give our best effort.
ksazma posted:Keith, why are you being so evasive? Why can't you answer a simple question? What in that passage you posted still hold true today?
I don't think I am, you are too lazy to read the answer I have given to the extent you mention you are falling asleep.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:Answer: 40 authors wrote the Bible over a period of 1,500 years. These Bible writers wrote as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit (READ: 2 Timothy 3:16-17). Moses was the first person to write portions of Scripture while John the disciple of Jesus was the last. Other famous people who wrote the Bible include: David, Daniel, Peter, Paul, Jonah, Isaiah, Solomon and David.
The Scripture says in II Peter 1:20-21, "You must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
The Holy Spirit revealed to the prophets the messages of Scripture. The writers of the Bible wrote not according to their own will or whim, but only as they were moved, or controlled, by the Spirit of God. The Bible is God's own book!
II Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." The Holy Bible affects human beings so profoundly because "all" the Bible is "God-breathed." It's more than a nice collection of moral principles; it's more than a great book; it's an inspired document, God's book. The prophets who wrote the Bible related what they saw and heard in human language, but their message came directly from God.
I 'm awaiting your questions concerning the Hold Spirit.
Please explain these passages as they relate to 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Thank you.
(16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Ezekiel 23
1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
9 Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.
10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.
11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.
12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.
13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,
14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,
15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:
16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.
17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose emission is like the emission of horses.
21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.
22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;
23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.
24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.
25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.
26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.
27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.
28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:
29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.
31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.
32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.
33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.
34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.
40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,
41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.
42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.
43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?
44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.
45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.
46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.
47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.
48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.
49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.
Will address later....Thanks.
No concerning Ezekiel 23, before I begin to explain what being said here, let me ask you this:
In Ezekiel 23 verse 2 states: "Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:"
Do you know who the two women are? I am asking since you have read the bible and know more about it than I do. Just want us to be on the same page of understanding this verse before I proceed.
Former Member
Keith posted:What God Thinks of Slothfulness
Lazy people live in a bubble of self-absorption. The only thing that matters to them is that they get what they want. This is in direct conflict with Scripture, which says we are to regard one another as more important than ourselves (Phil. 2:3). For instance, when we are deliberately slow on the job, we are not regarding our boss as important.
Go tell this to Bill Gates, Donald Trump or Michael Bloomberg.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:
Do we all sin? The Bible teaches that we all inherit sin from the first man, Adam. (Romans 5:12) Some translations seem to contradict this by saying that a good person "does no sin" or "sinneth not." (1 John 3:6, The Bible in Basic English; King James Version) In the original language, though, the Greek verb for "sin" at 1 John 3:6 is in the present tense, which in that language normally indicates a continuous action. There is a difference between inherited sin, which we cannot avoid, and the deliberate, continuous practice of disobeying God’s laws. Thus, some translations clear up this seeming contradiction by accurately using phrases such as “does not practice sin” or “does not habitually sin.”—New World Translation; Phillips.
So from whom did Adam inherit sin?
What is this sin that we cannot avoid?
As mention in previous post read the book Genesis to find answer to your question highlighted above.
Lets look at what 1 John 3:6 is saying : 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Whosoever abideth in him
As the branch in the vine, deriving all light, life, grace, holiness, wisdom, strength, joy, peace, and comfort from Christ; or dwells in him by faith, enjoys communion with him as a fruit of union to him; and stands fast in him, being rooted and grounded in him, and abides by him, his truths and ordinances, takes up his rest, and places his security in him, and perseveres through him:
sinneth not;
not that he has no sin in him, or lives without sin, but he does not live in sin, nor give up himself to a vicious course of life; for this would be inconsistent with his dwelling in Christ, and enjoying communion with him:
whosoever sinneth;
which is not to be understood of a single action, but of a course of sinning:
hath not seen him, neither known him;
that is, he has never seen Christ with an eye of faith; he has never truly and spiritually seen the glory, beauty, fulness, and suitableness of Christ, his need, and the worth of him; he has never seen him so as to enjoy him, and have communion with him; for what communion hath Christ with Belial, or light with darkness, or righteousness with unrighteousness? ( 2 Corinthians 6:14 2 Corinthians 6:15 ) , nor has he ever savingly known him, or been experimentally acquainted with him; for though he may profess to know him in words, he denies him in works.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:ksazma posted:Nice try Keith but you are not dealing with a rookie. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the real contradictions in the Bible. Nothing to do with time, context or viewpoint. Nothing to do with figurative or literal. Real contradictions. We can go over them one by one without seeking to conceal them with all the sermon stuff. Are you prepared to do that.
Present one and lets have a discussion
KeithMember
Here is one for you Keith.
According to Luke, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel and Salathiel's father is Neri.
However, according to Matthew, Zorobabel's father is Salathiel but Salathiel's father is Jechonias.
Although there are thousands more, I chose Jesus' genealogy because I know you wish to remain focused on Jesus.
Just for the record, Keith challenged me back on 1/17/17 to present a contradiction and he is still chasing his tail one week later. And ironically, the question he has been running from is not even a contradictory one but a similarity one.
And for the record reread my previous post/comments in reference to your questions and draw your own conclusion.
Can you point me to where you answered that "yes, Zorababel is the same person mentioned in the two passages" or "no, the Zorababels mentioned in the two passages are not the same person". Thank you.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:
Do we all sin? The Bible teaches that we all inherit sin from the first man, Adam. (Romans 5:12) Some translations seem to contradict this by saying that a good person "does no sin" or "sinneth not." (1 John 3:6, The Bible in Basic English; King James Version) In the original language, though, the Greek verb for "sin" at 1 John 3:6 is in the present tense, which in that language normally indicates a continuous action. There is a difference between inherited sin, which we cannot avoid, and the deliberate, continuous practice of disobeying God’s laws. Thus, some translations clear up this seeming contradiction by accurately using phrases such as “does not practice sin” or “does not habitually sin.”—New World Translation; Phillips.
So from whom did Adam inherit sin?
What is this sin that we cannot avoid?
Go and read the book of Genesis or when you find something that support your question then lets have a discussion.
Dude, you came here posting passages from the Bible. Now when someone ask you about something you post, you tell them to go read Genesis. What exactly is your objective if not to expound on what you posted?
Former Member
Keith posted:No concerning Ezekiel 23, before I begin to explain what being said here, let me ask you this:
In Ezekiel 23 verse 2 states: "Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:"
Do you know who the two women are? I am asking since you have read the bible and know more about it than I do. Just want us to be on the same page of understanding this verse before I proceed.
What same page? All I ask you to do is explain Ezekiel 23 as it relates to 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Former Member
Keith posted:ksazma posted:Keith posted:
Do we all sin? The Bible teaches that we all inherit sin from the first man, Adam. (Romans 5:12) Some translations seem to contradict this by saying that a good person "does no sin" or "sinneth not." (1 John 3:6, The Bible in Basic English; King James Version) In the original language, though, the Greek verb for "sin" at 1 John 3:6 is in the present tense, which in that language normally indicates a continuous action. There is a difference between inherited sin, which we cannot avoid, and the deliberate, continuous practice of disobeying God’s laws. Thus, some translations clear up this seeming contradiction by accurately using phrases such as “does not practice sin” or “does not habitually sin.”—New World Translation; Phillips.
So from whom did Adam inherit sin?
What is this sin that we cannot avoid?
As mention in previous post read the book Genesis to find answer to your question highlighted above.
Lets look at what 1 John 3:6 is saying : 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Whosoever abideth in him
As the branch in the vine, deriving all light, life, grace, holiness, wisdom, strength, joy, peace, and comfort from Christ; or dwells in him by faith, enjoys communion with him as a fruit of union to him; and stands fast in him, being rooted and grounded in him, and abides by him, his truths and ordinances, takes up his rest, and places his security in him, and perseveres through him:sinneth not;
not that he has no sin in him, or lives without sin, but he does not live in sin, nor give up himself to a vicious course of life; for this would be inconsistent with his dwelling in Christ, and enjoying communion with him:whosoever sinneth;
which is not to be understood of a single action, but of a course of sinning:hath not seen him, neither known him;
that is, he has never seen Christ with an eye of faith; he has never truly and spiritually seen the glory, beauty, fulness, and suitableness of Christ, his need, and the worth of him; he has never seen him so as to enjoy him, and have communion with him; for what communion hath Christ with Belial, or light with darkness, or righteousness with unrighteousness? ( 2 Corinthians 6:14 2 Corinthians 6:15 ) , nor has he ever savingly known him, or been experimentally acquainted with him; for though he may profess to know him in words, he denies him in works.
Since nothing you wrote above answers the two questions, I ask you to address them again. My question was not about how to AVOID sin. It was;
What is this sin that we cannot avoid.
From whom did Adam inherit sin.
Thank you.
Thanks for the fig story Kaz, that page must have been torn out of the one I read, I don't recall that story but it good though.
Good luck in your pursuit of explanations with twenty minutes of reading without receiving anything concrete.
Former Member
cain posted:Thanks for the fig story Kaz, that page must have been torn out of the one I read, I don't recall that story but it good though.
Good luck in your pursuit of explanations with twenty minutes of reading without receiving anything concrete.
I don't know why I am making a big deal over the fig tree anyway. Especially since I don't even care for figs. I prefer mangoes.
I am going to avoid this foolish dispute, genealogies, contentions and strivings about the Bible; for this is unprofitable and useless. I found you to be divisive from several admonition.
Former Member
Keith posted:I am going to avoid this foolish dispute, genealogies, contentions and strivings about the Bible; for this is unprofitable and useless. I found you to be divisive from several admonition.
In conclusion. I proved that you are incapable of explaining the book you seek to have others follow. Even as blindly as you prove you blindly follow it.
I will be looking at what you post and will comment whenever I see it fit.
Remember, this is a discussion board, not your church.
ksazma posted:Keith posted:I am going to avoid this foolish dispute, genealogies, contentions and strivings about the Bible; for this is unprofitable and useless. I found you to be divisive from several admonition.
In conclusion. I proved that you are incapable of explaining the book you seek to have others follow. Even as blindly as you prove you blindly follow it.
I will be looking at what you post and will comment whenever I see it fit.
Remember, this is a discussion board, not your church.
In conclusion you prove to have no understanding of the scriptures in the Bible and when someone of understanding try to help your misunderstanding by explain the scriptures, you show time and again how ignorant you are of that understanding. If you or anyone revisit previous post/comments you will clearly see your ignorance.
You are certainly free to comment as you like, we do have this liberty of free speech. I still have love you all and will pray for you all.
Getting the Most Out of Work
“Love what you do, and you will not work a day in your life,” goes the saying. But we don’t always get to do what we like or labor alongside easy-going people. Any job—even a well-loved one—has low points and tasks that feel like drudgery. Our attitude, then, cannot be based upon the work itself or our feelings; rather, it must reflect our position as God’s children. We would be far wiser to adopt a new maxim: “Work for the Lord you love, and you will be fulfilled every day of your life.”
We get the most out of our work when we view ourselves as servants. That, however, is not the perspective of modern culture, which teaches us to seek power and respect for self instead of toiling diligently for those who are in authority over us.
When it comes to our attitude about work, here is the principle as taught in God’s Word: “In all things obey those who are your masters on earth” (Col. 3:22). Biblical obedience isn’t merely an outward show with inward grumbling and resentment. Rather, it is a true commitment to the welfare of the employer.
God’s children are called to be His servants. Since we spend significant amounts of time at a job, much of our service will be done there. As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, the Lord is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to observe us practicing righteousness at work and in all areas of our lives.
Former Member
Keith posted:Getting the Most Out of Work
“Love what you do, and you will not work a day in your life,” goes the saying. But we don’t always get to do what we like or labor alongside easy-going people. Any job—even a well-loved one—has low points and tasks that feel like drudgery. Our attitude, then, cannot be based upon the work itself or our feelings; rather, it must reflect our position as God’s children. We would be far wiser to adopt a new maxim: “Work for the Lord you love, and you will be fulfilled every day of your life.”
We get the most out of our work when we view ourselves as servants. That, however, is not the perspective of modern culture, which teaches us to seek power and respect for self instead of toiling diligently for those who are in authority over us.
When it comes to our attitude about work, here is the principle as taught in God’s Word: “In all things obey those who are your masters on earth” (Col. 3:22). Biblical obedience isn’t merely an outward show with inward grumbling and resentment. Rather, it is a true commitment to the welfare of the employer.
God’s children are called to be His servants. Since we spend significant amounts of time at a job, much of our service will be done there. As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, the Lord is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to observe us practicing righteousness at work and in all areas of our lives.
I be the pimps would really like to listen your sermon.
Former Member
Keith posted:Getting the Most Out of Work
As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, the Lord is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to observe us practicing righteousness at work and in all areas of our lives.
If the Lord is overseeing our actions at work and wants to observe us practicing righteousness at work, why isn't He overseeing our bosses to ensure they practice righteousness at work by treating their employees with respect. We hear more and more about bosses abusing their employees.
The Rewards of Working Well
To help with my college expenses, I spent summers working in a textile mill. My assignment was in the bleachery, the hottest part of the complex. I did not like the work, the heat, or the tough boss, and for the first couple of weeks, my attitude reflected my unhappiness. The job wouldn’t change, I realized, but my way of thinking could. I decided to work as if the Lord was my boss, and that choice made all the difference.
The heat did not bother me anymore. The work became tolerable, and best of all, I had many opportunities to share my faith because fellow workers noticed I was different. When I returned the following summer, that harsh boss gave me a job without hesitation.
Treating our work like an extension of our service to the Lord changes our attitude. Pleasing Him motivates us to do our best and inevitably results in the believer’s contentment. A job may be challenging, frustrating, or boring, but we can be at peace instead of wallowing in negative emotions.
A servant heart can impact other employees as well. Service that is rendered with kindness, grace, and humility gets coworkers’ attention, which in turn opens up opportunities for ministry to the people with whom we spend hours each day.
Rewards for enthusiastic service on the job can take many forms—including greater personal satisfaction in our work and opportunities to reflect Christ to others. There is also the great joy of knowing that our Father is happy with our performance.
Former Member
How can one reflect Christ by being kind, graceful and humble when Christ wasn't kind graceful or humble. He ignored people and when his compadres plead with him to not be an a-hole, he belligerently told his compadres that that person is not his problem.
Former Member
Keith posted:The Rewards of Working Well
To help with my college expenses, I spent summers working in a textile mill. My assignment was in the bleachery, the hottest part of the complex. I did not like the work, the heat, or the tough boss, and for the first couple of weeks, my attitude reflected my unhappiness. The job wouldn’t change, I realized, but my way of thinking could. I decided to work as if the Lord was my boss, and that choice made all the difference.
The heat did not bother me anymore. The work became tolerable, and best of all, I had many opportunities to share my faith because fellow workers noticed I was different. When I returned the following summer, that harsh boss gave me a job without hesitation.
Treating our work like an extension of our service to the Lord changes our attitude. Pleasing Him motivates us to do our best and inevitably results in the believer’s contentment. A job may be challenging, frustrating, or boring, but we can be at peace instead of wallowing in negative emotions.
A servant heart can impact other employees as well. Service that is rendered with kindness, grace, and humility gets coworkers’ attention, which in turn opens up opportunities for ministry to the people with whom we spend hours each day.
Rewards for enthusiastic service on the job can take many forms—including greater personal satisfaction in our work and opportunities to reflect Christ to others. There is also the great joy of knowing that our Father is happy with our performance.
So Brother Keith, what is your real job? Are you a minister or a regular run of the mill 8 hour working guy?
Former Member
skeldon_man posted:So Brother Keith, what is your real job? Are you a minister or a regular run of the mill 8 hour working guy?
We idrine gane. He nah like answering questions.
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