Khemraj Ramjattan thinks the way Dick Cheyney does

Khemraj Ramjattan thinks the way Dick Cheyney does

Each day Khemraj Ramjattan moves further and further away from the man people saw fight the autocracy of the Jagdeo/Ramotar partnership. Khemraj is making some terrifying mistakes that I could remember telling my philosophy students that they must avoid throughout their lives.
One essential philosophical warning a teacher gives his philosophy students is to denounce as a legitimate action in life the ends justifying the means.
No teacher should encourage students to think like that. No politician should ever entertain that thought. And no lawyer should. Christopher Ram, a lawyer, quoted sections of the law where police can stop a vehicle if and when they want. Ram completely overlooks context. So according to Ram, we have no rights as drivers. Police can order you to stop if and when they want to. I am not interested in Ram’s ramblings but in the minister’s position.
Dick Cheney, former Vice President under George Bush, perfected the torture techniques of his administration. In May this year, speaking to Fox Business News, Cheney said the US should reintroduce torture techniques. He said he knows torture works because he was involved in the composition of the manual from which it was used to interrogate terrorist suspects.
Cheney went on to state that the water-boarding techniques among others yielded valuable information. For Cheney, the ends justify the means.
Ramjattan produced an identical emulation of Cheney. Ramjattan said that random stops by police have produced success. He stated that the police found many illegal weapons through random interceptions. This perception is coming from a politician who sued the police and won when the police burnt the private parts of an underage boy to get a confession of murder.
According to Ramjattan, if on the application of torture, you give the police incontrovertible details of your crime, then torture works. This torture analogy fits his random search reasoning perfectly. If Khemraj and the rest of society did not intervene and denounce the torture of the little boy and the police had continued to physically brutalize him by burning other parts of his body and he confessed then the torture was worth it, I suppose.
Let’s look at some ugly examples where the ends justify the means. One is vigilante justice. Vigilante action is mob rule. A society must not encourage it but if it brings success, then according to Ramjattan and Cheney it has utility value.

So car engines are being stolen in a village. The villagers suspect Sunil and Michael. A group is formed; they storm the houses of Sunil and Michael, search them and find stolen engines. They then kill the two men. Engine stealing stops so the group’s action was logical.
Villagers want the local tax on mango rescinded by the NDC. They say it hits the economy of the village hard. The NDC says that the village’s export trade in mangoes brings in handsome profits and the NDC needs the revenue. The villagers are angry. They burn the vehicles belonging to the NDC. The NDC agrees to stop the tax. All ends well. The ends justify the means.
If random halts have resulted in the seizure of illegal weapons so have many other actions of the police. In every country in the world, there are nocturnal lovers’ hideouts where couples make love in their vehicles. Random searches of some cars on the sites have yielded drugs and other illegal things.
What this means is that while you are in the private circumstance in your vehicle with your lover, according to the thinking of Ramjattan, nothing is wrong if the police knock on the window and see you and your lover’s private parts because the police are doing their work and they may find ganja in the vehicle. If they do find ganja then the invasion of your privacy was justified.
The security minister intoned to the press that citizens must understand that “law enforcement ranks should be allowed to carry out their duties unhindered…” I will end with an example where the citizens of this country may have lost their right to peaceful travel.
I was heading for the airport with my daughter and wife two Tuesdays ago. The ranks at the Madewini outpost were stopping drivers at random.
I slowed to intervene. It was overbearing. People were heading for their flights. My wife demanded that I drive, insisting that she has her daughter in the car. I looked back in anger. Did some folks miss their flight? If they did, Ramjattan would say the search was right if they had found an illegal parrot in one of the suitcases.

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Original Post

I don't agree that the end justifies the means. 

The police set up many roadblocks on the way to the airport. If you are coming from the Corentyne, you can encounter 3 to 5 of these. Each one will cost you about 20 to 25 US$. Most of the drivers know the routine and how to slip the bribe so that one does not miss his/ her flight.

Mitwah posted:

I don't agree that the end justifies the means. 

The police set up many roadblocks on the way to the airport. If you are coming from the Corentyne, you can encounter 3 to 5 of these. Each one will cost you about 20 to 25 US$. Most of the drivers know the routine and how to slip the bribe so that one does not miss his/ her flight.

If the drivers follow the rule of law, there should be no reason to pay $20- $25 US. 

BTW, were you in these bus that the police stop? 

Dave posted:
Mitwah posted:

I don't agree that the end justifies the means. 

The police set up many roadblocks on the way to the airport. If you are coming from the Corentyne, you can encounter 3 to 5 of these. Each one will cost you about 20 to 25 US$. Most of the drivers know the routine and how to slip the bribe so that one does not miss his/ her flight.

If the drivers follow the rule of law, there should be no reason to pay $20- $25 US. 

BTW, were you in these bus that the police stop? 

What rule of law? These stops are illegal.

I have not gone back since 2010. At one stop, the police said dem tyres look smooth bannas once he learned that we were heading to the airport. You gotta come to the station leh we measure the thread depth.  That would have been an all day waiting process. The driver knew the routine.

People need to use their cameras and phones and start recording these illegal stops and post them on social media.

The end does not justify the means.

Mitwah posted:
Dave posted:
Mitwah posted:

I don't agree that the end justifies the means. 

The police set up many roadblocks on the way to the airport. If you are coming from the Corentyne, you can encounter 3 to 5 of these. Each one will cost you about 20 to 25 US$. Most of the drivers know the routine and how to slip the bribe so that one does not miss his/ her flight.

If the drivers follow the rule of law, there should be no reason to pay $20- $25 US. 

BTW, were you in these bus that the police stop? 

What rule of law? These stops are illegal.

I have not gone back since 2010. At one stop, the police said dem tyres look smooth bannas once he learned that we were heading to the airport. You gotta come to the station leh we measure the thread depth.  That would have been an all day waiting process. The driver knew the routine.

People need to use their cameras and phones and start recording these illegal stops and post them on social media.

The end does not justify the means.

The station pulling is the tactics used to extract a bribe.

They doing that for a while.

Mitwah posted:
Dave posted:
Mitwah posted:

I don't agree that the end justifies the means. 

The police set up many roadblocks on the way to the airport. If you are coming from the Corentyne, you can encounter 3 to 5 of these. Each one will cost you about 20 to 25 US$. Most of the drivers know the routine and how to slip the bribe so that one does not miss his/ her flight.

If the drivers follow the rule of law, there should be no reason to pay $20- $25 US. 

BTW, were you in these bus that the police stop? 

What rule of law? These stops are illegal.

I have not gone back since 2010. At one stop, the police said dem tyres look smooth bannas once he learned that we were heading to the airport. You gotta come to the station leh we measure the thread depth.  That would have been an all day waiting process. The driver knew the routine.

People need to use their cameras and phones and start recording these illegal stops and post them on social media.

The end does not justify the means.

The stops are illegal, but the cops knew why they are stopping drivers. The majority of drivers breaks the law and have to bribe the cops. 

Mitwah posted:
Dave posted:
 

The stops are illegal, but the cops knew why they are stopping drivers. The majority of drivers breaks the law and have to bribe the cops. 

My driver did not break the law. 

Point taken, but drivers are at the mercy of law enforcement officers regardless because the majority breaks the law. 

Its a know fact that police stop these drivers and walk away with their documents to delay and frustrate drivers, as a result of this, drivers give money to these vultures. 

Corruption is NOT only rampant in public service workers. 

The  disease of corruption has found its way into Mosque, Temple and churches and its massive. Evidence of which I personally have and it is shameful.

We recently discover the head of a Temple ( Crane  West Coast)  cannot account for over 25 million dollars but the dude built a massive mansion. 

There has to be a better way in dealing with this epidemic of corruption in the police force. This problem started under we PPP administration. Any minister will have an uphill task in battling this epidemic.

There has to be a strong messsage from the Chief of the Police in addressing the problem of corruption in the force. They need to have a special unit for sting operations to bust corrupt cops and more action taken by the Chief in sending a strong message.

Cops caught taking bribes should be suspended without pay for first offence and firing from the force for a second offence.

Drivers must also be respectful of cops and obey the rules of the road. Ramjattan inherited an ants nest and has to deal very carefully with this issue. 

BTW Brother Gil, you always make excellent observations and comments. I always read every single post of yours. 

yuji22 posted:

There has to be a better way in dealing with this epidemic of corruption in the police force. This problem started under we PPP administration. 

Traffic cops harassment occurred before that. I witnessed a number of such incidents as a commuter in WCD & GT during 1970s-80s. I believe it started during the British colonial period and increased over time.

I called out Rohee to place undercover Officers to stamp out the shit but no one listened. The same thing needed at the Public Service. A relative went to get a death Certificate to cremate their love one, the hungry belly woman at the window told her she has to return in the afternoon. She pleaded that they want to cremate at 1 PM, she denied the request. A friend who went with her pull her to the side and told her to give she ah lil freck. She did and the certificate was given to her in 5 minutes!!!!!!!

Nehru posted:

I called out Rohee to place undercover Officers to stamp out the shit but no one listened. The same thing needed at the Public Service. A relative went to get a death Certificate to cremate their love one, the hungry belly woman at the window told her she has to return in the afternoon. She pleaded that they want to cremate at 1 PM, she denied the request. A friend who went with her pull her to the side and told her to give she ah lil freck. She did and the certificate was given to her in 5 minutes!!!!!!!

So true my friend. So true. In guyana this is the way to go. U want something, pay and its done. Seen it happen so many times.To some,  it's called  " building contacts". However, when it comes to GPF, well...its all part of the protect and serve package. Must have been part of their training at eve leary. And this practice is not going tp stop or go away. At all.

Nehru posted:

I called out Rohee to place undercover Officers to stamp out the shit but no one listened. The same thing needed at the Public Service. A relative went to get a death Certificate to cremate their love one, the hungry belly woman at the window told her she has to return in the afternoon. She pleaded that they want to cremate at 1 PM, she denied the request. A friend who went with her pull her to the side and told her to give she ah lil freck. She did and the certificate was given to her in 5 minutes!!!!!!!

Rohee was the most incompetent minister under we PPP administration. 

Most of them became too big for their pants.

Nehru posted:

Change Bhai Mits the Namakaram Crabdaag promised, Now he dits with his Dhal Belly in FREE HOUSE, SUV and sucking free food and Likka. Well that is change.

There must be many who are struggling and probably would like to be a crabdaag in their next life. 

Nehru posted:

The Namakaram Crabdaag. He told rice Farmers dem gun get 6000 fun wan bag Paddy and he told Sugar workers sugar will be king and they will get big raise. But instead the sugar workers get raised out of the Estates!!!

Ahhhh, yuh are on the right path, bhai Nehru.

Nehru posted:

The Namakaram Crabdaag. He told rice Farmers dem gun get 6000 fun wan bag Paddy and he told Sugar workers sugar will be king and they will get big raise. But instead the sugar workers get raised out of the Estates!!!

Is Rags family or de other fella?

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Nehru posted:

He would have said to Anil " Shut Yuh Rass"

Haul you ass.  KR never drinks nor cusses.  He has the key to change. I mean positive change to be specific. 

Au contraire, KR is a dirty, cussing, drunk.

Kerry yo Rass.

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Nehru posted:

He would have said to Anil " Shut Yuh Rass"

Haul you ass.  KR never drinks nor cusses.  He has the key to change. I mean positive change to be specific. 

Au contraire, KR is a dirty, cussing, drunk.

Have you ever heard him cuss?  When you say "dirty", to what are you referring?

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Nehru posted:

He would have said to Anil " Shut Yuh Rass"

Haul you ass.  KR never drinks nor cusses.  He has the key to change. I mean positive change to be specific. 

Au contraire, KR is a dirty, cussing, drunk.

We know that's what you are. Go ahead and curse me. Speak dirty to me. 

kp posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Nehru posted:

He would have said to Anil " Shut Yuh Rass"

Haul you ass.  KR never drinks nor cusses.  He has the key to change. I mean positive change to be specific. 

Au contraire, KR is a dirty, cussing, drunk.

Kerry yo Rass.

Bibi is a 

yuji22 posted:

Mits why are you always picking on Bibi ? 

Mits is mischievous, that's why. But Bibi should give him the Gautama treatment. To illustrate, here's a vignette:

One day LagguBaggu attempted to provoke the Buddha. LB said, "Gautama yuh got testicular elephantiasis." Buddha smiled. LB continued: "Yuh is a fat lazy rass." Buddha smiled again. LB walked away. Looking on, a disciple said: "Master, why didn't you answer that loafer?"

The Buddha replied: "If you offer me a bitter karaila but I don't accept it, with whom does it remain?" The disciple said: "Me."

"Well, I didn't accept his insults. He can keep them."

Bibi must smile silently and leave Mits picking on himself.

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