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FM
Former Member

Every problem in Guyana is personally caused by President Granger whose magical wand hasn't yet managed to clean up 23 years of PPP shyte and 28 years of PNC petrified turds.

 

I would caution them not to go the Tea Party route because this is Guyana and the circumstances are vastly different.

 

Criticizing the new Government is not indicative of anything per se.

 

However, criticizing even the nonsensical things just betrays a very very childish and racist attitude. I think these people are not criticizing Granger for any reason other than because he's Black.

 

I know for a fact if any Indian President of Guyana has conducted himself with a semblance of the competence shown by Granger in the past 30 days then they would all be here ready to mala him and throw their daughters at him.

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Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

 

If they do, it would be because of his PNC past, lack of diversity, military appointees.

 

Nothing is wrong if people offer critiques -v- racist nitpicking.

 

Coalition should not be given a free ride.  What they have done so far is a mixed bag.

And of course the PPP, with its leadership similar to what one would expect in India, was so "diverse."

 

No wonder your fellow AFCite, Nigel Hughes, called them institutional racists and the AFC posted on their website an article about how, Under Jagdeo's rule. an Afro Guyanese woman liked Antigua, because "it felt good to be black here".  She refusing to return to Guyana as a result.

 

Clearly you like the PPPs idea of diversity.  Put most decision making in the hands of Indians, and give the little black tokens some toys to be play with.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clearly you like the PPPs idea of diversity.  Put most decision making in the hands of Indians, and give the little black tokens some toys to be play with.

The decision making is in the hands of blacks now, not Indians.

 

After 4 weeks APNU does not seem to know what to do.

R
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Every problem in Guyana is personally caused by President Granger whose magical wand hasn't yet managed to clean up 23 years of PPP shyte and 28 years of PNC petrified turds.

 

I would caution them not to go the Tea Party route because this is Guyana and the circumstances are vastly different.

 

Criticizing the new Government is not indicative of anything per se.

 

However, criticizing even the nonsensical things just betrays a very very childish and racist attitude. I think these people are not criticizing Granger for any reason other than because he's Black.

 

I know for a fact if any Indian President of Guyana has conducted himself with a semblance of the competence shown by Granger in the past 30 days then they would all be here ready to mala him and throw their daughters at him.

How about carefully comprehending what you post. You seem to be saying someone criticizing even the nonsensical things qualify someone as a racist. Who are the "they" who will throw their daughters at the president? How do you know this for a fact?  I must be a mudhead if I do not have the answers to these questions which was a result of reading your profound post.

Z
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

 

If they do, it would be because of his PNC past, lack of diversity, military appointees.

 

Nothing is wrong if people offer critiques -v- racist nitpicking.

 

Coalition should not be given a free ride.  What they have done so far is a mixed bag.

And of course the PPP, with its leadership similar to what one would expect in India, was so "diverse."

 

No wonder your fellow AFCite, Nigel Hughes, called them institutional racists and the AFC posted on their website an article about how, Under Jagdeo's rule. an Afro Guyanese woman liked Antigua, because "it felt good to be black here".  She refusing to return to Guyana as a result.

 

Clearly you like the PPPs idea of diversity.  Put most decision making in the hands of Indians, and give the little black tokens some toys to be play with.

I hate getting into these types of argument. However, here are my thoughts. Thousands of Guyanese left Guyana when it was ruled by both the pnc and the PPP. there are pull and push factors to explain that emigration. To attribute a totality to one person's explanation is poor scholarship. There is debate of whether the other races other than East Indians in the PPP government were merely tokens. Now, we have the same debate occuring with this government'd appointment. Are they mere tokens? People might argue that there is a difference, that this group has more power than the other, etc. People's arguments are based on thir cognitive framework which is created through education and experience.Some argue that the PPP government was institutionally racist. I personally do no know of any law or practice that support this. I have heard of one comment by Luncheon to explain the lack of diversity in the ambassador level. Again, what does this reflect. What I know is in my interaction with the govt, in most of the times I interact with the government, either in the offices or on the public road, there is a majority of one particular race. It would be disingeneous to suggest that all of these people have no power, were puppets. Anyone who knows anything about institutions will know that individuals within institutions carve out their own little power structures within the organization and with how they interact with customers, clients, etc. lots of these individuals have a lot of control over our everyday lives. I know a little bit about the ministry of education. Who is the chief education officer, and other administrators. Do they not have power. Get serious and post something sensible instead of still propagating the racist stuff.

Z
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

After the Coalition won, did you hear of the Indian man who went to India and liked India, because "it felt good to be Indian there".  She refusing to return to Guyana as a result.

Youn can negate the feelings of Afro Guyanese under the PPP as much as you want, but this reflects how they feel.

 

Now tell me how did Indians feel in 1992 when the PNC lost. They felt relieved.  They felt that their exclusion, for no reason other than being Indian had ended.

 

Jay you are going to be a very frustrated man, because you refuse to understand and empathize with Afro Guyanese.  You CANNOT be part of a coalition, where blacks are the LARGEST part, if you do this.

FM
Originally Posted by Zed:
. It would be disingeneous to suggest that all of these people have no power,

1.  Are you claiming that Indians were powerful during the Bookers era because they accounted for the bulk of the workers.  What about Guysuco during the Burnham era?  Indian controlled?  Most of the employees, including those at supervisory levels were Indians.

 

2.  Mid level and lower level workers IMPLEMENT policy.  They do NOT set it.

 

3.  Mid level and lower level workers do NOT DETERMINE RESOURCE ALLOCATION.  They work within the context of it.

 

4. While individual Africans might have built their own INDIVIDUAL power base, to whom would they be accountable?  The masses of powerless Africans, or the Indian bosses?  It is their Indian bosses who determine their rewards. 

 

Think about Kwame. The man mounted a RACIST campaign against blacks.  So of what benefit did he create for Afro Guyanese?

 

Think of Robeson Benn when you answer.  How did his tremendous power help Afro Guyanese?  Please note that if he had done a lot to help blacks he would have had a large black base. Ditto for Sam Hinds.  Neither of these men had a strong support base among blacks who benefitted from what they did to help them.

 

While those two individuals wielded a lot of individual power, it was in the context of an Indian dominated government and they merely secured their PERSONAL situation.

 

5.  Do you think that the few blacks with high level positions within the PPP would have defied its policies?  NO!  They would have done their best to enhance their positions within this hierarchy.  They become as beneficial for blacks as Clarence Thomas on the US Supreme Court is.

 

 

Reality is that 2015 represented for Afro Guyanese what 1992 represented for Indo Guyanese.  The hope that this was the beginning of an era where their ethnic exclusion would have ended.

 

 

YOU KNOW WHAT IS INTERESTING.  I HAVE BEEN ASKED BY CARIBBEAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE VISITED GUYANA WHY THE SOCIO ECONOMIC POSITION OF BLACKS IS SO BAD.  WHY THEY SEEM TO BE SO EXCLUDED.  PEOPLE SAW WHO MADE DECISIONS AND THEY SAW EVERY FEW BLACKS.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

If the PPP was not institutionally racist then neither was the PNC.  The concentration of blacks within the civil service is a function of Guyanese history.

 

During the colonial era blacks and mixed people accounted for the bulk of the civil servants, and increasing numbers of even the upper ranks after WWII.  Did that mean that blacks ran Guyana during the colonial era?

FM
Originally Posted by Mitwah:

Caribny, what have you done personally to help your Afro Guyanese?

Lots, including exposing Indian racism.

 

Your question should be why did I have to do so much when it should have been the PPP gov't which should have being doing this.

 

No wonder they are so happy and feeling that the "slow holocaust is over", and "finally they can feel as if they are Guyanese".

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Mitwah:

Caribny, what have you done personally to help your Afro Guyanese?

Lots, including exposing Indian racism.

 

Your question should be why did I have to do so much when it should have been the gov't which should have being doing this.

Don't tell me what questions to ask. You have not done one fluck to help your kind. Haul yoh racist shit ass da side.

Mitwah
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Mitwah:
.

Don't tell me what questions to ask. You have not done one fluck to help your kind. Haul yoh racist shit ass da side.

OK so why don't you furnish evidence that I haven't done anything?

Because there is none. You are full of stuff that comes from the bovine behind. You are a dangerous congenital racist pig.

Mitwah

Carib said:

 

"Now tell me how did Indians feel in 1992 when the PNC lost. They felt relieved.  They felt that their exclusion, for no reason other than being Indian had ended."

 

Carib, please answer this question:

 

1. Did Burnham/Hoyte/Green and the PNC rig elections from 1968-1985?  Did the PNC steal the votes of Indian citizens and impose a dictatorship?

 

Hint:  It's a yes or no answer.

FM
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

Don't think people are criticizing because he's black.

 

If they do, it would be because of his PNC past, lack of diversity, military appointees.

 

Nothing is wrong if people offer critiques -v- racist nitpicking.

 

Coalition should not be given a free ride.  What they have done so far is a mixed bag.

Are those knuckle walkers offering critiques of baying like hounds because they can?

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:

If the PPP was not institutionally racist then neither was the PNC.  The concentration of blacks within the civil service is a function of Guyanese history.

 

During the colonial era blacks and mixed people accounted for the bulk of the civil servants, and increasing numbers of even the upper ranks after WWII.  Did that mean that blacks ran Guyana during the colonial era?

You are conflating too different issues. Colonialism was by definition a system of oppression and maximal use of autocratic powers to arrange the society as it chooses. By definition only he plantocracy has the authority to "run" things.

 

The dictatorship and then the transitional democracy (autocracy) that was the PPP did exactly the same thing. They engineered a system akin to suzerain/surf  structure. One met their criteria....color and subservience...to fit into their administrative structures. Granger has that history in this new dispensation.

 

And what does one find emerging in the new regime? All the former PNC hedge Knights are being mobilized into the Granger Small Council. It is absolutely recycling the same malingerers, and scalawags and paleontological artifacts not collected as museum pieces by the PPP together with the usual knee benders. He does not bode Change. He is setting himself up for a fall. Unless he takes steps to liberalize his administrative structure to include new people with independent minds he is doomed to be a failure like his predecessors.

 

A worse problem faces him. He has no money. He has little credit line in the west. The PPP were greeted with open arms when they begged. He will be met with a West demanding a good credit history and we have none. It is why I said he will do nothing to the Chinese. He need their money and they have a lot and they will be making demands of the usual predatory kind. They will be given no less a free run on our forests and natural resources and an end run around paying fair prices. If he does not watch it this is his entrance into the same corruption as the PPP. No one plays with the Chinese and come out of the sandbox clean.

 

I am hoping he is a better man than he appears. He appears as vain and vindictive as Jagdeo. Solomon and Vanessa were good foot solders but because they were also soldiers who questioned; the hard lined general chopped them down at the knees. Their service as good yeomen did not matter to rehabilitate them in his eyes. They are left in to cold. That alone is a sign that he is walking along a path we are so accustomed to.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Mitwah:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Mitwah:

Caribny, what have you done personally to help your Afro Guyanese?

Lots, including exposing Indian racism.

 

Your question should be why did I have to do so much when it should have been the gov't which should have being doing this.

Don't tell me what questions to ask. You have not done one fluck to help your kind. Haul yoh racist shit ass da side.

HAHAHAHA  Being RACIST makes him Happy.  He feels AfroGuyanese stomach are filled with his RACISM!!

Nehru
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Zed:
. It would be disingeneous to suggest that all of these people have no power,

1.  Are you claiming that Indians were powerful during the Bookers era because they accounted for the bulk of the workers.  What about Guysuco during the Burnham era?  Indian controlled?  Most of the employees, including those at supervisory levels were Indians.

 

2.  Mid level and lower level workers IMPLEMENT policy.  They do NOT set it.

 

3.  Mid level and lower level workers do NOT DETERMINE RESOURCE ALLOCATION.  They work within the context of it.

 

4. While individual Africans might have built their own INDIVIDUAL power base, to whom would they be accountable?  The masses of powerless Africans, or the Indian bosses?  It is their Indian bosses who determine their rewards. 

 

Think about Kwame. The man mounted a RACIST campaign against blacks.  So of what benefit did he create for Afro Guyanese?

 

Think of Robeson Benn when you answer.  How did his tremendous power help Afro Guyanese?  Please note that if he had done a lot to help blacks he would have had a large black base. Ditto for Sam Hinds.  Neither of these men had a strong support base among blacks who benefitted from what they did to help them.

 

While those two individuals wielded a lot of individual power, it was in the context of an Indian dominated government and they merely secured their PERSONAL situation.

 

5.  Do you think that the few blacks with high level positions within the PPP would have defied its policies?  NO!  They would have done their best to enhance their positions within this hierarchy.  They become as beneficial for blacks as Clarence Thomas on the US Supreme Court is.

 

 

Reality is that 2015 represented for Afro Guyanese what 1992 represented for Indo Guyanese.  The hope that this was the beginning of an era where their ethnic exclusion would have ended.

 

 

YOU KNOW WHAT IS INTERESTING.  I HAVE BEEN ASKED BY CARIBBEAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE VISITED GUYANA WHY THE SOCIO eoECONOMIC POSITION OF BLACKS IS SO BAD.  WHY THEY SEEM TO BE SO EXCLUDED.  PEOPLE SAW WHO MADE DECISIONS AND THEY SAW EVERY FEW BLACKS.

Thanks for your response. First, my point is that in bureaucratic organizations, workers, even though their institutional role is to carry out orders, develop and use their own notions of power, sometimes in contradiction to their orders. When last have you visited a government iffice to carry out some business and you had to wait on the worker who is gaffing and laughing withw about the worker at the stelling who accepts a raise so that another vehicle that came after you goes on to the boat and you have to wait for twelve hours for the next boat a coworker or discussing personal issues on the call phone. when last have you heard about a teacher being fired for dereliction of duties (other than for sexual misconduct) or a member of the public service? Second, I mentioned cognitive structure and provided you an opening to think about something - what determines the way we view the world and what is happening around and to us and people around us. Somewhere in there is a. Explanation why people voted the way they did. I want to stress that I respect "the wisdom if the voter" and do not denigrate anyone for whom they voted. Third, ministers and other policy makers are frequently changed. Audio ally, they are not experts in the field. They made decisions based on the data theyat were given during the campaign, among other things. Furthermore are given by administrators and by the commitment they gave during the campaign, among other things. The administrators are in a position to shape policies. Additionally, they exercise power in implementing those policies administrativewer of Benin and some of the other non East Indian ministers.  power. Ministers often do not micro manage so the opportunities are many. Fourth, I disagree with you regarding the Powers of some of the non EI ministers. Benn was able to exercise real power. 

I have to go now. I will give additional response if I get the time later. Have a good day.

 

Z

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