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FM
Former Member

India could pass a controversial citizenship bill that excludes Muslims

Demonstrators protest against the government's Citizenship Amendment Bill [CAB) in New Delhi on December 10, 2019.
 

 

(CNN) India could be set to pass a bill that would give Indian citizenship to immigrants from three neighboring countries -- but not if they are Muslim.

The controversial Citizenship Amendment Bill (CAB) would fast-track citizenship for religious minorities, including Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis, and Christians, from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan.
Opposition parties say the proposed law is unconstitutional as it bases citizenship on a person's religion and would further marginalize India's 200-million strong Muslim community.
The government, ruled by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), said the bill seeks to protect religious minorities who fled persecution in their home countries.
 
 
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In secular India, it's getting tougher to be Muslim
 
On Tuesday, lawmakers approved the bill 311-80 in the lower house of parliament -- the Lok Sabha -- which is dominated by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's BJP. It's being tabled in the upper house -- the Rajya Sabha -- on Wednesday, where it faces its first test as the BJP lacks a clear majority there.
If the bill does pass in both houses, it will then be sent to the President for his assent.
 
"I think it is, without exaggeration, probably the most dangerous piece of legislation that we've had because it amounts to truly destroying the very character of the Indian state and the constitution," Harsh Mander, an Indian human rights activist and author, told CNN.
Mander said the very nature of the Indian constitution is that it is based on secular values.
 
"Central to the idea was that your religious identity would be irrelevant to your belonging, and it's that which is being turned on its head. It's extremely worrying," he said.
The bill's passage in the lower house has also drawn widespread opposition and protests in the northeastern states but for different reasons.
 
Many indigenous groups there fear that giving citizenship to large numbers of immigrants, who came over the porous border with Bangladesh following independence in 1971, would change the unique ethnic make-up of the region and their way of life, regardless of religion.
Demonstrators shout slogans as they hold placards to protest against the government's Citizenship Amendment Bill in Agartala in India's northeast state of Tripura.
 

Hindu nationalist agenda

 
Critics of the bill say it is another example of how Modi and his BJP party have pushed an agenda of Hindu nationalism onto secular India, a country of 1.3 billion people, at the expense of the Muslim population.
The BJP, which was re-elected in May, has its roots in India's Hindu right-wing movement, many followers of which see India as a Hindu nation.
 
In August, the Indian government stripped the majority-Muslim state of Jammu and Kashmir of its autonomous status, essentially giving New Delhi more control over the region's affairs. That same month, nearly two million people in India's Assam have left off a controversial new National Register of Citizens, which critics feared could be used to justify religious discrimination against Muslims in the state.
 
And last month, India's top court gave Hindus permission to build a temple on a disputed centuries-old holy site, which holds significance for both Hindus and Muslims. The ruling on the Ayodhya site was seen as a blow to Muslims and came at a time when Muslims increasingly see themselves as second-class citizens.
1.9 million excluded from Indian citizenship list in Assam state
 
In 2018, India's Home Minister Amit Shah said Muslim immigrants and asylum seekers from Bangladesh were "termites" and promised to rid the nation of them.
The government maintains the bill is about protecting religious minorities who fled to India to avoid persecution by allowing them to become citizens.
 
Shah said in a tweet that the bill "will allow India to open its doors to minorities from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Afghanistan who are facing religious persecution."
"It is well known that those minorities who chose to make Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan their home had to constantly live in the fear of extinction," Shah said. "This amended legislation by the Modi government will allow India to extend them dignity and an opportunity to rebuild their lives."
Modi tweeted that the bill, "is in line with India's centuries-old ethos of assimilation and belief in humanitarian values."
 
But critics say India's claims that the citizenship law aims to protect religious minorities "rings hollow" because it excludes Muslim minorities who face persecution in neighboring countries, including the Ahmadiyya from Pakistan, Rohingya from Myanmar, and the Tamil from Sri Lanka.
"The bill uses the language of refuge and sanctuary, but discriminates on religious grounds in violation of international law," said Meenakshi Ganguly, South Asia director at Human Rights Watch, in a statement.
 
Addressing parliament on Tuesday, Shah said that Muslims "will not benefit from this amendment because they have not been persecuted on the basis of religion."

Replies sorted oldest to newest

(CAB) would fast-track citizenship for religious minorities, including Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis, and Christians, from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan.

Opposition parties say the proposed law is unconstitutional as it bases citizenship on a person's religion and would further marginalize India's 200-million strong Muslim community.

The government, ruled by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), said the bill seeks to protect religious minorities who fled persecution in their home countries.

 

 

FM
ksazma posted:

There are no innocents in this situation. The Muslims have done more than enough wrong to warrant other’s wrath. Modi and his party are sinking deeper into religious intolerance too.

I can see non-muslims who are being persecuted in Muslim countries trying to flee and get to India. Why would Muslims want to flee their own country to get to India only to sit in the streets begging? Makes no sense.

FM
skeldon_man posted:
ksazma posted:

There are no innocents in this situation. The Muslims have done more than enough wrong to warrant other’s wrath. Modi and his party are sinking deeper into religious intolerance too.

I can see non-muslims who are being persecuted in Muslim countries trying to flee and get to India. Why would Muslims want to flee their own country to get to India only to sit in the streets begging? Makes no sense.

Maybe they feel that they can afford a bigger begging bowl in India. 😀

Truthfully, Muslim countries have been blessed with lots of wealth but because their leaders are mostly despotic, they haven’t made the best use of those blessings.

FM
ksazma posted:
skeldon_man posted:
ksazma posted:

There are no innocents in this situation. The Muslims have done more than enough wrong to warrant other’s wrath. Modi and his party are sinking deeper into religious intolerance too.

I can see non-muslims who are being persecuted in Muslim countries trying to flee and get to India. Why would Muslims want to flee their own country to get to India only to sit in the streets begging? Makes no sense.

Maybe they feel that they can afford a bigger begging bowl in India. 😀

Truthfully, Muslim countries have been blessed with lots of wealth but because their leaders are mostly despotic, they haven’t made the best use of those blessings.

I don't see any Muslim going to a non-muslim country to beg and persecuted.

FM
skeldon_man posted:
ksazma posted:
skeldon_man posted:
ksazma posted:

There are no innocents in this situation. The Muslims have done more than enough wrong to warrant other’s wrath. Modi and his party are sinking deeper into religious intolerance too.

I can see non-muslims who are being persecuted in Muslim countries trying to flee and get to India. Why would Muslims want to flee their own country to get to India only to sit in the streets begging? Makes no sense.

Maybe they feel that they can afford a bigger begging bowl in India. 😀

Truthfully, Muslim countries have been blessed with lots of wealth but because their leaders are mostly despotic, they haven’t made the best use of those blessings.

I don't see any Muslim going to a non-muslim country to beg and persecuted.

I don’t know bai. I just feel that Muslims reputation right now is really bad and I don’t blame any country that don’t want to take any chances with them.

FM
Prince posted:

India's top court gave Hindus permission to build a temple on a disputed centuries-old holy site, which holds significance for both Hindus and Muslims. The ruling on the Ayodhya site was seen as a blow to Muslims and came at a time when Muslims increasingly see themselves as second-class citizens.

Do you think Hindus can go to Mecca and build a Mandir there? Remember how Hindus were targeted in Afghanistan? They had to wear yellow to identify themselves.

FM

I am torn on this issue. It is true that Hindus will not be allowed to build a mandir in Saudi Arabia but this law is a separate matter altogether. It appears to be a law discriminating against Muslims seeking asylum in favour of Hindus. It can tilt a delicate balance in some states as indicated by the Article. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Muslims are also Indian citizens and discriminating against them is wrong. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Nehru posted:

Yes Bhai Skelly, Muslim Countries are bias and somewhat racist BUT India MUST NOT behave like them. Such a Bill is bias, unfair and inhuman. There are better ways to secure their Homeland!!

Trump is building a wall, Saudis don't want non-Muslims, Israel doesn't want Muslims, Europe doesn't want Jews, PNC doesn't want coolies in Guyana. Where is the stop? Why should India be different?

FM
skeldon_man posted:
Nehru posted:

Yes Bhai Skelly, Muslim Countries are bias and somewhat racist BUT India MUST NOT behave like them. Such a Bill is bias, unfair and inhuman. There are better ways to secure their Homeland!!

Trump is building a wall, Saudis don't want non-Muslims, Israel doesn't want Muslims, Europe doesn't want Jews, PNC doesn't want coolies in Guyana. Where is the stop? Why should India be different?

Because Indians are made differently, our Civilization is unmatched, we project humanity, tolerance, empathy, goodness and love.

Nehru
Sean posted:

I am torn on this issue. It is true that Hindus will not be allowed to build a mandir in Saudi Arabia but this law is a separate matter altogether. It appears to be a law discriminating against Muslims seeking asylum in favour of Hindus. It can tilt a delicate balance in some states as indicated by the Article. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Muslims are also Indian citizens and discriminating against them is wrong. 

India has a huge problem with Sleeper Cells!  It is believed that locals helped scope out for the Mumbai attacks in 2008!

The Wahab philosophy is the scourge of the planet!

Baseman
Nehru posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Nehru posted:

Yes Bhai Skelly, Muslim Countries are bias and somewhat racist BUT India MUST NOT behave like them. Such a Bill is bias, unfair and inhuman. There are better ways to secure their Homeland!!

Trump is building a wall, Saudis don't want non-Muslims, Israel doesn't want Muslims, Europe doesn't want Jews, PNC doesn't want coolies in Guyana. Where is the stop? Why should India be different?

Because Indians are made differently, our Civilization is unmatched, we project humanity, tolerance, empathy, goodness and love.

The ones that are rich or migrated. Their shit doesn't stink. They look down on the poor and unfortunate. Your description of Indians is not displayed by the nasty ones we see abroad.

FM
Baseman posted:
Sean posted:

I am torn on this issue. It is true that Hindus will not be allowed to build a mandir in Saudi Arabia but this law is a separate matter altogether. It appears to be a law discriminating against Muslims seeking asylum in favour of Hindus. It can tilt a delicate balance in some states as indicated by the Article. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Muslims are also Indian citizens and discriminating against them is wrong. 

India has a huge problem with Sleeper Cells!  It is believed that locals helped scope out for the Mumbai attacks in 2008!

The Wahab philosophy is the scourge of the planet!

It is TRUE!!  Many Muslims in India are  closer to Pakistan but still want to live in India. In Kashmir there are about 95% who openly praise Pak and demonize India. It is a problem BUT this Bill will not do much to help.

Nehru
Nehru posted:
Baseman posted:
Sean posted:

I am torn on this issue. It is true that Hindus will not be allowed to build a mandir in Saudi Arabia but this law is a separate matter altogether. It appears to be a law discriminating against Muslims seeking asylum in favour of Hindus. It can tilt a delicate balance in some states as indicated by the Article. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Muslims are also Indian citizens and discriminating against them is wrong. 

India has a huge problem with Sleeper Cells!  It is believed that locals helped scope out for the Mumbai attacks in 2008!

The Wahab philosophy is the scourge of the planet!

It is TRUE!!  Many Muslims in India are  closer to Pakistan but still want to live in India. In Kashmir there are about 95% who openly praise Pak and demonize India. It is a problem BUT this Bill will not do much to help.

How about if India treats them like the Afghans did to the Hindus?

FM
skeldon_man posted:
Nehru posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Nehru posted:

Yes Bhai Skelly, Muslim Countries are bias and somewhat racist BUT India MUST NOT behave like them. Such a Bill is bias, unfair and inhuman. There are better ways to secure their Homeland!!

Trump is building a wall, Saudis don't want non-Muslims, Israel doesn't want Muslims, Europe doesn't want Jews, PNC doesn't want coolies in Guyana. Where is the stop? Why should India be different?

Because Indians are made differently, our Civilization is unmatched, we project humanity, tolerance, empathy, goodness and love.

The ones that are rich or migrated. Their shit doesn't stink. They look down on the poor and unfortunate. Your description of Indians is not displayed by the nasty ones we see abroad.

Indians think they are better than others, except Whites!  The Indians I had best experience when I lived there were from the Christian South!  They were more even-keel!

Baseman
skeldon_man posted:
Nehru posted:
Baseman posted:
Sean posted:

I am torn on this issue. It is true that Hindus will not be allowed to build a mandir in Saudi Arabia but this law is a separate matter altogether. It appears to be a law discriminating against Muslims seeking asylum in favour of Hindus. It can tilt a delicate balance in some states as indicated by the Article. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Muslims are also Indian citizens and discriminating against them is wrong. 

India has a huge problem with Sleeper Cells!  It is believed that locals helped scope out for the Mumbai attacks in 2008!

The Wahab philosophy is the scourge of the planet!

It is TRUE!!  Many Muslims in India are  closer to Pakistan but still want to live in India. In Kashmir there are about 95% who openly praise Pak and demonize India. It is a problem BUT this Bill will not do much to help.

How about if India treats them like the Afghans did to the Hindus?

There is a whole section on Bombay where most refugees end up!  It’s a vibrant community!  Many Africans also live there!  They are protected!

Baseman
skeldon_man posted:
Prince posted:

India's top court gave Hindus permission to build a temple on a disputed centuries-old holy site, which holds significance for both Hindus and Muslims. The ruling on the Ayodhya site was seen as a blow to Muslims and came at a time when Muslims increasingly see themselves as second-class citizens.

Do you think Hindus can go to Mecca and build a Mandir there? Remember how Hindus were targeted in Afghanistan? They had to wear yellow to identify themselves.

India is a democratic nation, Saudi Arabia is NOT. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Prince posted:

(CAB) would fast-track citizenship for religious minorities, including Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis, and Christians, from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan.

Opposition parties say the proposed law is unconstitutional as it bases citizenship on a person's religion and would further marginalize India's 200-million strong Muslim community.

The government, ruled by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), said the bill seeks to protect religious minorities who fled persecution in their home countries.

 

 

Bangladesh is fast becoming a very intolerant country.

Prashad
Sean posted:

I agree. Guyanese muslims are example of ideal muslims. Proud of my Guyanese Muslim brothers and sisters. 

We are going to have our first Muslim president in Guyana in 2020. Love it !

Ali ! Ali ! Ali !

It's an embarrassment to condemn Muslims in general and praise Guyanese Muslims as your brothers and sisters. It's irresponsible to say Irfaan Ali will or going to be president in 2020 when voting has not begun. I am not supporting either side but chose to point out the mistakes that cause controversy from time to time.

FM
Prince posted:
Sean posted:

I agree. Guyanese muslims are example of ideal muslims. Proud of my Guyanese Muslim brothers and sisters. 

We are going to have our first Muslim president in Guyana in 2020. Love it !

Ali ! Ali ! Ali !

It's an embarrassment to condemn Muslims in general and praise Guyanese Muslims as your brothers and sisters. It's irresponsible to say Irfaan Ali will or going to be president in 2020 when voting has not begun. I am not supporting either side but chose to point out the mistakes that cause controversy from time to time.

You sound like Hilarious!  Meh guh leh yuh know wuh me tink when it done ‘appen!

Baseman
Baseman posted:
Prince posted:
Sean posted:

I agree. Guyanese muslims are example of ideal muslims. Proud of my Guyanese Muslim brothers and sisters. 

We are going to have our first Muslim president in Guyana in 2020. Love it !

Ali ! Ali ! Ali !

It's an embarrassment to condemn Muslims in general and praise Guyanese Muslims as your brothers and sisters. It's irresponsible to say Irfaan Ali will or going to be president in 2020 when voting has not begun. I am not supporting either side but chose to point out the mistakes that cause controversy from time to time.

You sound like Hilarious!  Meh guh leh yuh know wuh me tink when it done ‘appen!

I respect people who don't jump the gun and get shot in the foot. Keep it up. There was a thread by Ray entitled "isn't is nice" meaning birds of feathers agreeing with each other on anything PPP. I respectfully disagree with the feather's gang and still have no venom for the PPP, but honesty. 

FM
Prince posted:
Baseman posted:
Prince posted:
Sean posted:

I agree. Guyanese muslims are example of ideal muslims. Proud of my Guyanese Muslim brothers and sisters. 

We are going to have our first Muslim president in Guyana in 2020. Love it !

Ali ! Ali ! Ali !

It's an embarrassment to condemn Muslims in general and praise Guyanese Muslims as your brothers and sisters. It's irresponsible to say Irfaan Ali will or going to be president in 2020 when voting has not begun. I am not supporting either side but chose to point out the mistakes that cause controversy from time to time.

You sound like Hilarious!  Meh guh leh yuh know wuh me tink when it done ‘appen!

I respect people who don't jump the gun and get shot in the foot. Keep it up. There was a thread by Ray entitled "isn't is nice" meaning birds of feathers agreeing with each other on anything PPP. I respectfully disagree with the feather's gang and still have no venom for the PPP, but honesty. 

That’s not what I was referring to at all!!

Baseman

There are millions of miserable lives in Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.  These countries ought to live  in peace with each other so they can focus more on fighting poverty and malnutrition.  Thank god the Americans found a way of extracting oil from sands. It has brought down the price of oil more than 50%.  Many countries usually blame the high cost of energy as the number reasons for inflation and economic stagnation.  Low energy prices have given the poor countries a chance to develop and raise their people's living standard.  

Billy Ram Balgobin
Ray posted:

things just going backwards

I told some ppl dat, dey sey to me, "u razz too fanatic." And dem same ppl dah agree to man buggering man, wimen rubbing up wimen, men dressing as wimen and sex change. Abortion dey agree too. Immigration, dey believe any ballyho should come to NA even it makes the whole country poor. I stop short of declaring, "alyuh juss hate the fing white ppl so much it wouldn't matter if you suffer as long as the whiteman suffers." Guyanese indoes nah dey down hay. Dem crazies. 

S
Sean posted:

I agree. Guyanese muslims are example of ideal muslims. Proud of my Guyanese Muslim brothers and sisters. 

We are going to have our first Muslim president in Guyana in 2020. Love it !

Ali ! Ali ! Ali !

Several Guyanese Muslims work for both the CIA and DIA. Some of them served in Iraq or Afghanistan. Including both males and females.

Prashad

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