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FM
Former Member

This party will be the middle...the sword of Damocles over the head of any other winning a plurality. If they began to steal left and right or build a patronage bast you topple them. With each recycling the middle will increase. Who ever win can court his support and be inclusive by giving him a portfolio. He will be elected as an Amerind so that Ministry will rightfully be his.  

Shuman gives up Canadian citizenship, launches political party

 

By Bibi Khatoon

The Liberty and Justice Party (LJP), headed by Former Vice Chair of the National Toshaos Council (NTC), Lenox Shuman was officially launched on Saturday night at the Georgetown Club.

The programme began with the universal prayer and other prayers from the Christian and Hindu faith.

Under the theme, “Shaping Guyana’s Future”, in a room of just over 100 attendees, Shuman announced that he will be giving up his Canadian citizenship, as he joins the race to become Guyana’s next president at the upcoming General and Regional Elections.

“As a Parliamentarian who swears to uphold the Constitution of Guyana, my first act cannot be to break the law. It is with this that I have a firm commitment and principle that I will be giving up my Canadian citizenship status,” Shuman declared to a round of applause.

He has been a Canadian citizen for approximately 28 years but is Guyanese by birth; his wife is also a Canadian citizen by birth.

His announcement follows a court case mounted by the current Government, challenging the validity of its former member, Charrandass Persaud’s vote due to his dual citizenship.

Charrandass voted in favour of No-Confidence in the National Assembly on December 21, 2018, which toppled the Government; he also holds a Canadian passport which is against the Guyana constitution.

The Constitution states that “No persons shall be qualified for election as a member of the National Assembly who is by virtue of his own act, under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience or adherence to a foreign power or state.”

Further, it notes that to be elected as President, a person should be qualified to be a member of the National Assembly.

Though previously touted as the Indigenous party, Shuman said his Party represents all Guyanese.

“We are not a fly by night Party that firms in the rush of elections for personal gain…” he told supporters.

The Party has not presented a Manifesto as yet but Shuman outlined some of the objectives which are as follows:

• To unite all the people of Guyana for the complete liberation of the country from all forms of discrimination

• To fight for social justice and to eliminate the vast inequalities created by racism

• To build a Guyanese nation with the common patriotism and loyalty in which the common linguistic, religious, diversity of the people is respected

• To uphold the articles of the law

• Putting a high premium on creating a leading education system, environmental protection regime, security policy and health care system

• To be transparent, accountable, responsible, open-minded, responsive, pragmatic and sensitive and sensible in its approach to Governance at all times

• Our leaders and members will conduct themselves in the most moral and ethical manner

• To promote economic development for the betterment of all

 

• To support and advance the cause of youth emancipation

• To support and advance national development, world peace and environmentally sustainable and diverse portfolio

• Defend Guyana’s borders

• Respect all Guyana’s diversities –cultural, economic, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, rural and urban; coastal and hinterland

• Support and protect the rights of women and children and persons with disabilities

• To respect the rights of our first peoples and all other populations who were brought to our land

• Restore value of all indigenous languages

• To restore international trust in Guyana’s government

• To foster sustainable business partnerships for the benefit of all

• Conduct all party business with integrity and professionalism

• To create policies that are informed by the people and are evidenced based

• To ensure that no group is excluded… in all facets of the party

Shuman disclosed that his Party currently has 25 members, however, other than himself, only two others are known so far.

A section of Saturday night’s gathering

There is John Flores. He is a resident of Mabaruma, Region One, a former commanding officer of the Guyana Coast Guard and current Director of the Safety at the Maritime Administration Department and Former President of the Volleyball Federation.

Second is Sean Dublin, who delivered a speech at the Party’s launch on Saturday evening.

Dublin is the President of the Guyana Custom House Brokers Association (GCHBA). He is also the Managing Director of the Lasedel Consultancy International.

Approximately 14 other persons joined in the Party’s group photo at the Georgetown Club who are purportedly members of the Party but when approached for details of his list, Shuman shied away from any questions, noting that the information will be supplied shortly.

The LJP is the second party to be launched this week following the FED-UP (Federal United) political party, which was launched in Berbice on Friday.

Another political party, A New United Guyana (ANUG) has also announced its presence but is yet to be launched.

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The PPP and APNU should take note who are the members here....young people, the most disaffected and disenchanted of Guyanese electorate. Seven thousand gives Shuman the scepter. He shall be kingmaker and kneebraker.

FM

I must admit that as a PPP supporter, now that he has launched, I am scared of the impact that this party will have on the PPP Amerindian Base. This party can sink the PPP !

The PPP needs to offer an olive branch to Shoeman. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
yuji22 posted:

I must admit that as a PPP supporter, now that he has launched, I am scared of the impact that this party will have on the PPP Amerindian Base. This party can sink the PPP !

The PPP needs to offer an olive branch to Shoeman. 

Amerindians vote for the Party in power because they are cultivated patrons by default who are forced to pay lip service for their daily bread. This party will take the vote from the APNU not t he PPP because that is where it would go otherwise.  Your fear should be with the urban young who are disenchanted and  mixed races who so not see themselves supporting either parties.

 

Shuman, will learn to deliver a speech. He will learn to project presence. He will learn to be the leader that is needed. He will achieve the greatness necessary to be Guyana's dutch boy with the finger in the dike, the wind that blows the feather from the camels back.

He is he butterfly effect we need to take power away from the prevailing crooks and to save us from the pending resource curse as these two ethnic group organize to dominate the state. 

FM

If we can set aside our personal differences for this Shuman launch,

The PPP has a much larger Amerindian base and DJ can post the results of PPP wins in Amerindian regions for last National and LGE. It would show that the PPP controls a much larger portion of Amerindian votes.

This party is a direct threat to the PPP.

Shoeman will also attract independents and those who are fed up with both the PPP and PNC. His support will extend far beyond the Amerindian base and can potentially become a magnet to young voters.

He is best advised to stay away from "constitutional talk" for now until the dust is settled. He is playing it very smartly.

I am deeply worried about the impact of Shuman on the PPP. This is a real game changer in Guyana's political landscape. The PPP needs to start having secret talks with Shuman ahead of the election ! Arrogance will lead to regret for the PPP if they do not thread carefully with Shuman.

FM

This party will be the middle...the sword of Damocles over the head of any other winning a plurality. If they began to steal left and right or build a patronage bast you topple them.

This is only possible if elections are free and fair and the middle party wins enough to deny the winning party an absolute majority.  We have to go back and fight Cheddie Jagan's biggest fight - the fight for fair and free elections.  The PNC monster has returned to power.  

Billy Ram Balgobin
Drugb posted:

I heard that this guy  is a Jagdeo plant to funnel disenchanted Amerindian votes to the PPP indirectly to get the gullible like D2 to fall in line behind a Jagdeo puppet.

Na bai. He is more closely aligned to the PNC than he is to the PPP. The PNC is already very worried about him and so should the PPP.

Your suggestion would be nice though.

FM
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

This party will be the middle...the sword of Damocles over the head of any other winning a plurality. If they began to steal left and right or build a patronage bast you topple them.

This is only possible if elections are free and fair and the middle party wins enough to deny the winning party an absolute majority.  We have to go back and fight Cheddie Jagan's biggest fight - the fight for fair and free elections.  The PNC monster has returned to power.  

Agreed about the bigger fight for free and fair election. Shuman stands more to lose if the election is not free and fair.

FM
yuji22 posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

New parties are born at election time. 

This one is different animal. Brings back memories of the AFC and the damage that they did to the PPP.

Shuman is an unknown. I don't expect him to pull votes in large numbers.  

Billy Ram Balgobin
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
yuji22 posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

New parties are born at election time. 

This one is different animal. Brings back memories of the AFC and the damage that they did to the PPP.

Shuman is an unknown. I don't expect him to pull votes in large numbers.  

He needs about 8,000 votes and this is not too difficult for him to achieve. Brings back memories of the AFC.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

FM
skeldon_man posted:

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

He is having secret meetings with the PNC. Not likely to destroy them. Most likely he will take the place of the AFC to form a coalition with them.  And has he really given up his Canadian citizenship???

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

He is having secret meetings with the PNC. Not likely to destroy them. Most likely he will take the place of the AFC to form a coalition with them.  And has he really given up his Canadian citizenship???

His organization MUST join and register as a part of APNU for the election.

Contesting as another party in the elections would be an interesting one.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

He is having secret meetings with the PNC. Not likely to destroy them. Most likely he will take the place of the AFC to form a coalition with them.  And has he really given up his Canadian citizenship???

It was reported that he met with Canadian officials to renounce his citizenship. He is a threat to the PPP and PNC. I cannot see him in bed with the PNC after what they did to him after his request for Yumana Yana.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Demerara_Guy posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

He is having secret meetings with the PNC. Not likely to destroy them. Most likely he will take the place of the AFC to form a coalition with them.  And has he really given up his Canadian citizenship???

His organization MUST join and register as a part of APNU for the election.

Contesting as another party in the elections would be an interesting one.

He will probably go solo this election. 

D2 is joining this party. He can be contacted for official Shuman statements. He finally has a party that he can relate to.  

FM
yuji22 posted:
 

The PPP has a much larger Amerindian base and DJ can post the results of PPP wins in Amerindian regions for last National and LGE. It would show that the PPP controls a much larger portion of Amerindian votes.

This party is a direct threat to the PPP.

Shoeman will also attract independents and those who are fed up with both the PPP and PNC. His support will extend far beyond the Amerindian base and can potentially become a magnet to young voters.

Will post the info later.

Django
skeldon_man posted:

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

Telling you over and over, don't bank on that. PNC have their base just like  PPP.

Will take a few cycles for that to break up.

Django
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
yuji22 posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

New parties are born at election time. 

This one is different animal. Brings back memories of the AFC and the damage that they did to the PPP.

Shuman is an unknown. I don't expect him to pull votes in large numbers.  

What you mean unknown ? the guy was in Guyana for a while and was also an Amerindian leader.

Django
D2 posted:

The PPP and APNU should take note who are the members here....young people, the most disaffected and disenchanted of Guyanese electorate. Seven thousand gives Shuman the scepter. He shall be kingmaker and kneebraker.

Not sure why you see this as salvation.

1.  It is being promoted as the "Amerindian" party meaning that 90% of the population see no benefit in it for them.

2. It will play no role in Guyana, even assuming that it wins seats.  The party with the greater number of seats forms the executive arm of the gov't.  The only impact that a small party will make is if it forms an alliance with a larger party.

3.  Amerindians have a tendency to vote for those parties which can deliver benefits, which is why GAP died a fast death. 

4. Being an impoverished and heavily marginalized group one can wonder the degree to which Amerindians will manifest tribal voting as do the Indian and the black/mixed groups.

5.  I doubt that Guyanese have reached the point where coastal dwellers will support a party that they see as an Amerindian party.  Guyaneese tend to vote for parties that are likely to win or become a strong opposition party.  As of now only the PPP and APNU have this.  The disastrous performance of the AFC, even in GT, shows that they don't.

Based on the fates of the UF (betrayed by the PNC in 1968 and by the PPP around 2011)  and the AFC that doesn't seem to be advantageous in the long term.

The PPP and the PNC will have to become much weaker and less dominant within the particular tribes to be reduced to the point where a small party can become a king maker.   Guyana will have to have demographics like Suriname which has 4 ethnic groups with between 27% and 14% (based on their last census).  But with the two groups both at around 40% (inclusive of  mixed identified people whose culture and voting habits and perspectives perfectly align with black identified people)  tribalism seems to remain a feature of Guyanese life for at least the next 10 years.

FM
Django posted:
 

Telling you over and over, don't bank on that. PNC have their base just like  PPP.

Will take a few cycles for that to break up.

Indian men have a problem of feeling emasculated and the homoerotic yearnings of the Indo Nazis for black men manifests this. These characters are brave only behind PCs and try desperately to signal some measure of virility, but these same "men" will flee that the minute that a strong black female barks at them.

They see themselves as weaker than black men, and unable to defend themselves and they cleave to Jagdeo who they think did so with his Phantoms.  They see Jagdeo as protecting them from "black man".  Decades after Burnham their self esteem is still shattered by how Burnham tossed around Jagan and make him look impotent.

While blacks also fear the economic dominance of the Indian business elites and their ability to utilize private militias they do not depend on  any individual man as the savior.  There is no "Jagdeo" in the PNC.  Afro Guyanese are extremely individualistic whereas rural Indians are very communal.

So the PNC base is a good deal more independent minded than is the PPP base, and likely to transmit their disgust with the PNC. Corbin found this out in 2006 when many PNC voters stayed home.  The issue that we will find out is the degree to which the PNC base disgust with people like Harmon, Jordan, and even Granger offsets their fear of a return of Jagdeo and the Phantoms.

FM

Guyanese have "Buyer's Remorse" with third Parties. This Shuman party don"t have Name recognition, people learn from mistakes. RE: AFC, the TURN coat party.

The next election would divide the population to their respective bases, they will vote PPP or PNC, nothing in between and the undecided will stay home, unless they are offered incentives to vote, Promises, Promises.

 Shuman being an Amerindian will only attract some of the natives and nothing else, his hope is to replace the Dead AFC.

K
caribny posted:
Django posted:
 

Telling you over and over, don't bank on that. PNC have their base just like  PPP.

Will take a few cycles for that to break up.

Indian men have a problem of feeling emasculated and the homoerotic yearnings of the Indo Nazis for black men manifests this. These characters are brave only behind PCs and try desperately to signal some measure of virility, but these same "men" will flee that the minute that a strong black female barks at them.

They see themselves as weaker than black men, and unable to defend themselves and they cleave to Jagdeo who they think did so with his Phantoms.  They see Jagdeo as protecting them from "black man".  Decades after Burnham their self esteem is still shattered by how Burnham tossed around Jagan and make him look impotent.

While blacks also fear the economic dominance of the Indian business elites and their ability to utilize private militias they do not depend on  any individual man as the savior.  There is no "Jagdeo" in the PNC.  Afro Guyanese are extremely individualistic whereas rural Indians are very communal.

So the PNC base is a good deal more independent minded than is the PPP base, and likely to transmit their disgust with the PNC. Corbin found this out in 2006 when many PNC voters stayed home.  The issue that we will find out is the degree to which the PNC base disgust with people like Harmon, Jordan, and even Granger offsets their fear of a return of Jagdeo and the Phantoms.

Indian men have a problem of feeling emasculated and the homoerotic yearnings of the Indo Nazis for black men manifests this. These characters are brave only behind PCs and try desperately to signal some measure of virility, but these same "men" will flee that the minute that a strong black female barks at them.

 QUESTION. ARE YOU GAY? you repeat the same shit every day. What's your point.?

K
caribny posted:

Indian men have a problem of feeling emasculated and the homoerotic yearnings of the Indo Nazis for black men manifests this. These characters are brave only behind PCs and try desperately to signal some measure of virility, but these same "men" will flee that the minute that a strong black female barks at them.

They see themselves as weaker than black men, and unable to defend themselves and they cleave to Jagdeo who they think did so with his Phantoms.  They see Jagdeo as protecting them from "black man".  Decades after Burnham their self esteem is still shattered by how Burnham tossed around Jagan and make him look impotent.

While blacks also fear the economic dominance of the Indian business elites and their ability to utilize private militias they do not depend on  any individual man as the savior.  There is no "Jagdeo" in the PNC.  Afro Guyanese are extremely individualistic whereas rural Indians are very communal.

So the PNC base is a good deal more independent minded than is the PPP base, and likely to transmit their disgust with the PNC. Corbin found this out in 2006 when many PNC voters stayed home.  The issue that we will find out is the degree to which the PNC base disgust with people like Harmon, Jordan, and even Granger offsets their fear of a return of Jagdeo and the Phantoms.

A lot of hogwash due to being spurned by an Indo woman so many years ago, now I am beginning to think it was not an indo woman but a tantie indo male that did the spurning. 

You could have easily summarized the 1st 2 paragraph in one sentence:

"Black PNC have the brawn and Indo PPP got the brain" .

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Prashad posted:

Mark my words. Give Shuman 10 years and he will be trying his best to get back his Canadian citizenship.

I say less than 10 months. 

Perhaps, ASAP to renounce his request to give up his Canadian citizenship.

FM
caribny posted:
D2 posted:

The PPP and APNU should take note who are the members here....young people, the most disaffected and disenchanted of Guyanese electorate. Seven thousand gives Shuman the scepter. He shall be kingmaker and kneebraker.

Not sure why you see this as salvation.

1.  It is being promoted as the "Amerindian" party meaning that 90% of the population see no benefit in it for them.

2. It will play no role in Guyana, even assuming that it wins seats.  The party with the greater number of seats forms the executive arm of the gov't.  The only impact that a small party will make is if it forms an alliance with a larger party.

3.  Amerindians have a tendency to vote for those parties which can deliver benefits, which is why GAP died a fast death. 

4. Being an impoverished and heavily marginalized group one can wonder the degree to which Amerindians will manifest tribal voting as do the Indian and the black/mixed groups.

5.  I doubt that Guyanese have reached the point where coastal dwellers will support a party that they see as an Amerindian party.  Guyaneese tend to vote for parties that are likely to win or become a strong opposition party.  As of now only the PPP and APNU have this.  The disastrous performance of the AFC, even in GT, shows that they don't.

Based on the fates of the UF (betrayed by the PNC in 1968 and by the PPP around 2011)  and the AFC that doesn't seem to be advantageous in the long term.

The PPP and the PNC will have to become much weaker and less dominant within the particular tribes to be reduced to the point where a small party can become a king maker.   Guyana will have to have demographics like Suriname which has 4 ethnic groups with between 27% and 14% (based on their last census).  But with the two groups both at around 40% (inclusive of  mixed identified people whose culture and voting habits and perspectives perfectly align with black identified people)  tribalism seems to remain a feature of Guyanese life for at least the next 10 years.

Wrong.  They can wield power if they have the swing votes. This is what I preferred the AFC to have done.  If the Shuman party could deprive either the PPP or PNC from gaining an absolute majority, then the winner forms a minority Govt.   To get any bills to pass, they will need the swing vote.  And that’s were Shuman can wield power!

Baseman
Baseman posted:
Wrong.  They can wield power if they have the swing votes. This is what I preferred the AFC to have done.  If the Shuman party could deprive either the PPP or PNC from gaining an absolute majority, then the winner forms a minority Govt.   To get any bills to pass, they will need the swing vote.  And that’s were Shuman can wield power!

As AFC proved, any 3rd party with swing votes in parliament will morph into obstructionists rather than serve any useful purpose for the country.  The AFC's voting record pre 2015 was almost always in line with PNC.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Drugb posted:
Baseman posted:
Wrong.  They can wield power if they have the swing votes. This is what I preferred the AFC to have done.  If the Shuman party could deprive either the PPP or PNC from gaining an absolute majority, then the winner forms a minority Govt.   To get any bills to pass, they will need the swing vote.  And that’s were Shuman can wield power!

As AFC proved, any 3rd party with swing votes in parliament will morph into obstructionists rather than serve any useful purpose for the country.  The AFC's voting record pre 2015 was almost always in line with PNC.

No equivalency. The AFC guys were “never Jagdeoites” with the primary goal of seeing the back of BJ at all costs.  So they cared not of the consequences.  

Shuman is not a PPP reject filled with anti-PPP/BJ venom.   Hopefully, he takes a more balanced viewpoint and seek to forward the interest of his constituents and the nation!

Baseman
Dave posted:

Both PNC and PPP will destroy Shuman in time to come,  he will regret giving up His Canadian Citizen. 

Let’s see. Shuman will lean on his nativism and garner international support based on the rights of the “First People”.  I doubt Blackman and Coolie will get away with anything that easy.  

Remember, while Coolies ran away from Black tyranny, the Shuman people did rise up. 

Baseman

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

FM
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

Billy Ram Balgobin
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Breakdown on Amerindian voters they are around 46,120 [ in 2015]  will be 56,917 [in 2020] stats from 2012 Census.

Django

Carib cannot write a sentence without his racist RANTS, so when Yuji pointed that out in a different post , it got CLOSED.

 The fact remains that Carib is allowed the free reign of race baiting on a daily basic.

K
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Django
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Labba, you want some Massala to bhunjay the curry ? You out of line bai.

PPP wins a majority

Shuman gets 1 seat, then 2 seats in 2024.

PNC demolished and has to rebuild for 2024.

FM
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

Billy Ram Balgobin
kp posted:

Carib cannot write a sentence without his racist RANTS, so when Yuji pointed that out in a different post , it got CLOSED.

 The fact remains that Carib is allowed the free reign of race baiting on a daily basic.

Carib does not attack Django and vice versa.  Carib shares that PNC view of using intra-racists Indians to do their dirty work.  It's seems like the admin. is also a soupee and an intra-racist too. 

Billy Ram Balgobin
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

Hey...hey.. keep on dreaming. Define the "people" please.

Django
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
kp posted:

Carib cannot write a sentence without his racist RANTS, so when Yuji pointed that out in a different post , it got CLOSED.

 The fact remains that Carib is allowed the free reign of race baiting on a daily basic.

Carib does not attack Django and vice versa.

I don't have no fight with Carib, he is free to share his views, most of the time he is on target.

Django
Last edited by Django
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

Hey...hey.. keep on dreaming. Define the "people" please.

 

Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

The PNC never won more than 27 seats in a general election. Now thatthe AFC is washed up who hell thinks the PNC can win 34 on its own?  Shuman is an unknown fly by night politician with no history as a fighter for Amerindian political rights. It's highly doubtful that he can win a seat given his lack of political clout.

Billy Ram Balgobin
Django posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Breakdown on Amerindian voters they are around 46,120 [ in 2015]  will be 56,917 [in 2020] stats from 2012 Census.

You are making the assumption that all Amerinds will vote for Shuman. Like dem coolies, not all natives will vote for Shuman. Some will look at him as an opportunist who lived abroad for 28 years and is ready to reap the benefits of the hard working locals.

FM
skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Breakdown on Amerindian voters they are around 46,120 [ in 2015]  will be 56,917 [in 2020] stats from 2012 Census.

You are making the assumption that all Amerinds will vote for Shuman. Like dem coolies, not all natives will vote for Shuman. Some will look at him as an opportunist who lived abroad for 28 years and is ready to reap the benefits of the hard working locals.

Not really, just post the figures.

Django
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
 

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

The PNC never won more than 27 seats in a general election. Now thatthe AFC is washed up who hell thinks the PNC can win 34 on its own?  Shuman is an unknown fly by night politician with no history as a fighter for Amerindian political rights. It's highly doubtful that he can win a seat given his lack of political clout.

AFC washed up !!!  you better think again.

Django
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

Hey...hey.. keep on dreaming. Define the "people" please.

 

Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Labba posted:

Shuman go get 3 seats. Thank you Granja foh trying to rig and Jagdoe for hand pickin Irfaan to continue yuh klepto ways. ANUG getting 5 seats. Minority government next and PPP not gurantee foh win. Hey hey hey...

Just your dreams.

"Dreams" you better go back to the drawing table.

Your mind games on GNI is not going to work to deter the people from removing this regime from power. It's last lap for the PNC.  Time to go!!

The PNC never won more than 27 seats in a general election. Now thatthe AFC is washed up who hell thinks the PNC can win 34 on its own?  Shuman is an unknown fly by night politician with no history as a fighter for Amerindian political rights. It's highly doubtful that he can win a seat given his lack of political clout.

PNC is returning to their usual 27 seats. (This is an overly optimistic number)

Shuman 1

PPP 34 seats

Others - 3

DJ gets his certificate of appreciation from Congress Place:

DJ

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FM
Last edited by Former Member
yuji22 posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Shuman will destroy the PNC. The PNC has been hiring all these old folks and leave the young educated men and women with no hope. Guess what? Granger will forgive all unemployed educated with debts.

He is having secret meetings with the PNC. Not likely to destroy them. Most likely he will take the place of the AFC to form a coalition with them.  And has he really given up his Canadian citizenship???

His organization MUST join and register as a part of APNU for the election.

Contesting as another party in the elections would be an interesting one.

He will probably go solo this election. 

D2 is joining this party. He can be contacted for official Shuman statements. He finally has a party that he can relate to.  

I have no official voice for the party an in no way have ever met with spoken to or met with anyone connected to the party. I just know what he must do and if he continues as he is I will join. 

FM
Dave posted:

Both PNC and PPP will destroy Shuman in time to come,  he will regret giving up His Canadian Citizen. 

 

They will be on their knees before him if he gets even one seat. 

FM
Baseman posted:
Dave posted:

Both PNC and PPP will destroy Shuman in time to come,  he will regret giving up His Canadian Citizen. 

Let’s see. Shuman will lean on his nativism and garner international support based on the rights of the “First People”.  I doubt Blackman and Coolie will get away with anything that easy.  

Remember, while Coolies ran away from Black tyranny, the Shuman people did rise up. 

He is set to become a very powerful political actor. I hope he has the inner fortitude to have that much invested in him. He is the key for Amerindians to get their due. He can also be instrumental to see that neither the PPP or the APNU bleed our country dry.

He will also be the target for international groups to try to seduce to pressure the government to favor their initiative. Lots of countries will send in their agents to shower him with privileged if they know he can influence their access. I hope those in his ear are advising him of a future where he will be such a target and help him with the courage to resist and maintain focus.

FM
caribny posted:
Django posted:

Telling you over and over, don't bank on that. PNC have their base just like  PPP.

Will take a few cycles for that to break up.

Indian men have a problem of feeling emasculated and the homoerotic yearnings of the Indo Nazis for black men manifests this. These characters are brave only behind PCs and try desperately to signal some measure of virility, but these same "men" will flee that the minute that a strong black female barks at them.

They see themselves as weaker than black men, and unable to defend themselves and they cleave to Jagdeo who they think did so with his Phantoms.  They see Jagdeo as protecting them from "black man".  Decades after Burnham their self esteem is still shattered by how Burnham tossed around Jagan and make him look impotent.

While blacks also fear the economic dominance of the Indian business elites and their ability to utilize private militias they do not depend on  any individual man as the savior.  There is no "Jagdeo" in the PNC.  Afro Guyanese are extremely individualistic whereas rural Indians are very communal.

So the PNC base is a good deal more independent minded than is the PPP base, and likely to transmit their disgust with the PNC. Corbin found this out in 2006 when many PNC voters stayed home.  The issue that we will find out is the degree to which the PNC base disgust with people like Harmon, Jordan, and even Granger offsets their fear of a return of Jagdeo and the Phantoms.

All of that is undistilled pseudo psychological crap. Change the races and put them in a majoritarian system where they are vertically bifurcated by ethnicity as ours and the competition for power will manifest similarly. Arend  Lijphart study of majoritarian systems illustrate closely how people behave in the constraint of this system. We can correct this in many ways.  Lijphart suggests power sharing but that also has its bugabos. We need a system that will coerce cross cultural ethnic participation. There are many and that is not my aim here.

 

FM
D2 posted:

 Seven thousand gives Shuman the scepter. He shall be kingmaker and kneebraker.

Really?  Even assuming that he gets these votes why will President Jagdeo/Irfaan listen to him, even if he has 48%?  He will not.  Having the largest votes allows him to dominate the executive. 

This party gets nothing unless they coordinate with APNU/AFC and we see how that ended up.

FM
D2 posted:
and  mixed races who so not see themselves supporting either parties.

 

 

The young grass roots will likely not vote as these guys will not win, so will not be able to help them.  The young middle class will drink whatever soup that they believe offers the most.  The young intellectual class isn't large enough to make a difference.  The failure of the AFC will have made the alienated even more alienated than they currently are.

There is no mixed races voting bloc. All sorts of people call themselves mixed and manifest as many behaviors as they have for calling themselves mixed.  A large % of these people have traditionally voted PNC. Others fall into the independent swing vote, some of them supporting AFC, but we don't know where they are now.  Reportedly over 20% (probably a segment of the douglas) supported the PPP as well.

What I have told you and what you refuse to understand is that the so called "African" group aren't the equivalent of the Indians.  They have no interest in a connection to Africa and aren't highly motivated to maintain "African" cultural behaviors. They meander around a "Creole" cultural continuum just as do their peers in other parts of the non Hispanic Caribbean.  Telling them that their ancestors are Susu, Ewe, Akan, Bakongo, etc. will result in a black stare.

Africans cannot even agree as to what they should be called.  Some reject "African", some reject "black", a few older ones still prefer "Negro".   And some will call themselves "mixed" based on some obscure non African grand parent, or even great grand parent.   Someone looking like Beyoncé will be insulted if not been seen as being "black". Another looking like Michelle O will insist that they are "mixed".

So who is or isn't "African/black/negro/mixed" cannot be universally determined whereas we all know who is or isn't an Indian and we all know the cultural traits of the Indian, even if not every Indian adheres to these.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
D2 posted:

 Seven thousand gives Shuman the scepter. He shall be kingmaker and kneebraker.

Really?  Even assuming that he gets these votes why will President Jagdeo/Irfaan listen to him, even if he has 48%?  He will not.  Having the largest votes allows him to dominate the executive. 

This party gets nothing unless they coordinate with APNU/AFC and we see how that ended up.

They do not listen to him then they get the charrandas protocol. The PNC would love to have another try very soon enough. The PPP has to win with an absolute majority and so does the PNC without worrying of being booted out. That is not likely to happen. 

FM
D2 posted:
 

All of that is undistilled pseudo psychological crap. Change the races and put them in a majoritarian system where they are vertically bifurcated by ethnicity as ours and the competition for power will manifest similarly. .

 

When you descend from the clouds you will see that the behaviors of the two major groups, inclusive of that portion which call themselves "mixed" are quite different.

The two groups are not equivalent.  They have different heritages, perceived themselves differently within Guyana, and respond to leadership in a different manner.  One has a very hardened sense in what their ethnicity is and how it manifests.  The other doesn't.  They occupy very different roles in Guyana and this informs their self perceived strengths and weaknesses.

And surely you have noted the massive homoerotic rambling emanating from a particular demographic on GNI.  GNI is but a reflection of Guyana, and especially the Indian segment is well represented here in all its diversity.  The blacks in the main left years ago seeing this as a cesspit of racism.

FM
caribny posted:
D2 posted:
and  mixed races who so not see themselves supporting either parties.

 

 

The young grass roots will likely not vote as these guys will not win, so will not be able to help them.  The young middle class will drink whatever soup that they believe offers the most.  The young intellectual class isn't large enough to make a difference.  The failure of the AFC will have made the alienated even more alienated than they currently are.

There is no mixed races voting bloc. All sorts of people call themselves mixed and manifest as many behaviors as they have for calling themselves mixed.  A large % of these people have traditionally voted PNC. Others fall into the independent swing vote, some of them supporting AFC, but we don't know where they are now.  Reportedly over 20% (probably a segment of the douglas) supported the PPP as well.

What I have told you and what you refuse to understand is that the so called "African" group aren't the equivalent of the Indians.  They have no interest in a connection to Africa and aren't highly motivated to maintain "African" cultural behaviors. They meander around a "Creole" cultural continuum just as do their peers in other parts of the non Hispanic Caribbean.  Telling them that their ancestors are Susu, Ewe, Akan, Bakongo, etc. will result in a black stare.

Africans cannot even agree as to what they should be called.  Some reject "African", some reject "black", a few older ones still prefer "Negro".   And some will call themselves "mixed" based on some obscure non African grand parent, or even great grand parent.   Someone looking like Beyoncé will be insulted if not been seen as being "black". Another looking like Michelle O will insist that they are "mixed".

So who is or isn't "African/black/negro/mixed" cannot be universally determined whereas we all know who is or isn't an Indian and we all know the cultural traits of the Indian, even if not every Indian adheres to these.

You have little faith in the young and that is because both sides have no creative strategy to mobilize them. The millennials are a power house in the us congress simply because of grass root movements and systems like act blue which can help them with funding. 

Africans are people as are Indians and they are driven by identity nebulous or not. African identity does not depend on tribe nor does Indian even if both are of tribal groups. However a commonality through the colonial cauldron binds them.  Most Indians don't give a damn about India other than it is their ancient home world. They are barely a majority Hindus since some 45 percent are of Abrahamic faiths.  Also they are in their second diaspora and one more supranational identity removed and these people influence what goes on at home in many ways also.

The reality is the dominance of ethnic politics persist. 

 

FM

D2 answer this question.  Shuman told the newspapers in Guyana less than a year ago that he was heading back to Canada because of the lack of career opportunities in Guyana that can pay for the money that he spent on his education in Canada.  How come in a matter of months Shuman is now talking about giving up Canadian citizenship and is running the election.  How come this overnight change of heart?  

Prashad

Looks like sakiwinki boy did not do his proper research on Shuman. He killed a eco lodge project that was handed to him from the previous toshao.

 

Entornointeligente.com / Former Toshao of St Cuthbert's Mission, Luke Simon â ?? "former Toshao Luke Simon says SAYING That I have nothing against Lenox Shuman, a former Toshao of St Cuthbert's Mission, Luke Simon Said the presidential aspirant must first account for His That stewardship in Amerindian reservation and lamented His decision to break up to $ 5M eco lodge HAD His administration built.

Shuman will be launching His Partya ?? "?? Partya Liberal and Justice" on Saturday at an event billed for the Georgetown Club. I HAD Said via the Stabroek News That some of the party's primary Objectives include constitutional reform, Particularly to diminish the powers of the office of the president and to move the governance structure from a proportional representation model to a constituency-based democracy at the national level . "Give the power to the people", and "defines governance versus power-sharing formulated to Provide a better governance structure," I said.

Other Reforms have advanced constitutional proposal include Provisions for post-election coalitions Allowing, Developing and Implementing a strong environmental policy That will be enforceable, and developing an economic model That will not be Solely dependent on oil revenues. The new party Proposes, Shuman Said That oil revenues be used to provide "free" education to all Citizens.

Numerous Allegations resurfaced Already Have About Shuman's tenure in office as the Toshao of St Cuthbert's Mission. He has denied all of them. However, Simon Said When He demitted office, Shuman Took over from him and I handed over a lot of items. "I was a bit surprised to see how I've used up the Things That I handed over ... take for instance, one of the Most Important Projects That I was Involved in was an ecotourism lodge, which (Shuman) Brought down ..." Simon Said I is very concerned about this mostly Because the project would Have Brought in vast revenues to St. Cuthbert's Mission. "It was a bit odd to see how the building and dismantled They Actually, I do not know, sold the rest of the investments for That purpose Because We had bought hammocks, and We had bought gas stoves and cylinders and even bought a speedboat . "

"I'm not bad-talking him, but I'm Worried About What Happened To That eco-lodge, Because It Would Have Brought in revenues to St. Cuthbert's Mission and it would Have enabled the village council [to Become] Involved in other projects and it would Have meant more income for them and we would not have to be asking for money here and there. Even That, other arms like the youth group and farmers and so, would support the Have produced and eco lodge as well, even poultry farmers. I thought it out Carefully When I undertook a project and more Such so, it was a project funded by UNDP in collaboration With IDB. So that's what I'm Worried About, "Simon said.

Also persons are questioning Whether Shuman is a citizen of Canada. Shuman is Reported to Have left Guyana in 1990 for Canada Where I Attended Confederation College of Applied Arts and Technology, graduating with a Business Diploma and a Canadian Commercial Pilot's License in 1999. Over the years, I have returned to Contribute to Periodically the St. Cuthbert's Mission community, located off the Soesdyke-Linden Highway as, According to him, the hood can be traced chief back to His great, great, grandfather. He is married to a Canadian Also, but became a re-some years now migrant. Prior to forming the party, I served as Toshao of St Cuthbert's Mission and vice-chairman of the National Toshaos Council (NTC).

Since I Announced His running as leader for the LJP, re-Have Numerous complaints from residents of St surfaced Cuthbert's Mission and others Who Had Encounters with the former village leader. A visit by St Cuthbert to esta newspaper's Mission in December Heard About missing complaints council items That Were Once in Shuman's possession, coming from the current Toshao; Also Were there reports of bad Relations with members of the village. Residents say Shuman HAD That Ejected a peaceful group of Brazilian Christian worshipers after hosting services They Began in the village, while I attempted to kick out a family of East Indian mix out of the village.

Others are still awaiting word on the end of an investigation into Launched Shuman and his molestation of a minor Alleged in the community. Meanwhile, other complaints against him REMAIN still unanswered. These include Those from persons: such as Priest-in-Charge of the St. Cuthbert's Mission Anglican Church, Bernard restriction of Amsterdam and his service to the village. Recounting a letter of complaint I wrote to the Indigenous Peoples' Affairs Minister, Sydney Allicock, Which did not sit well With Shuman and angered him while They Were at the village's Nomination Day, Priest Amsterdam Stated: "I've Then Told me in a harsh , uncouth and in a loud tone, 'GET OUT oF THIS MEETING, LEAVE THE VILLAGE,' you're not a member of this community

FM
Prashad posted:

D2 answer this question.  Shuman told the newspapers in Guyana less than a year ago that he was heading back to Canada because of the lack of career opportunities in Guyana that can pay for the money that he spent on his education in Canada.  How come in a matter of months Shuman is now talking about giving up Canadian citizenship and is running the election.  How come this overnight change of heart?  

how come your old behind is asking that question and you have not touched native soil in a while? He can do what the hell he likes. All of us are here because we are in pursuit of a different life. He told you why he is giving up a comfortable life and returning to his country. I believe him. You can do like drugb who lie about his black wife, cuss black people and now claim he is a cripple and do your best to smear him. To each his own. 

FM
cain posted:

That is one confusing article

PNC propaganda against him. Imagine, the PPP is also afraid of him so their supporters are using PNC manufactured lies against him. They forget he stood with Charrandas and my be the only reason the PPP sees power again. The ABC nations will stand for him against divisive ongoing ethnic political stalemate. Neither the PPP or the PNC has the necessary ingredient to get our country going on all cylinders. He is  the bridge they need since he can control the excesses of either. That is what the AFC was supposed to do but its leaders let their hatred for the PPP drive them into the arms of the PNC. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
D2 posted:
 

All of that is undistilled pseudo psychological crap. Change the races and put them in a majoritarian system where they are vertically bifurcated by ethnicity as ours and the competition for power will manifest similarly. .

 

When you descend from the clouds you will see that the behaviors of the two major groups, inclusive of that portion which call themselves "mixed" are quite different.

The two groups are not equivalent.  They have different heritages, perceived themselves differently within Guyana, and respond to leadership in a different manner.  One has a very hardened sense in what their ethnicity is and how it manifests.  The other doesn't.  They occupy very different roles in Guyana and this informs their self perceived strengths and weaknesses.

And surely you have noted the massive homoerotic rambling emanating from a particular demographic on GNI.  GNI is but a reflection of Guyana, and especially the Indian segment is well represented here in all its diversity.  The blacks in the main left years ago seeing this as a cesspit of racism.

I do not give a damn about the major groups if they will support race based party to the ends of the earth. They are the knuckle heads who are led by the nose.  I care about the few on the fringe who are disgusted like I am. It so happens they make up a considerable number capable of constraining the actions of those who would harm themselves and the society. It appears on all front that once in power, Africans in Guyana participate in similar obscene racist  nonsense as Indians. Amerindians have always borne the burnt. Now it is a growing chorus of the young

FM
D2 posted:

I do not give a damn about the major groups if they will support race based party to the ends of the earth. They are the knuckle heads who are led by the nose.  I care about the few on the fringe who are disgusted like I am. It so happens they make up a considerable number capable of constraining the actions of those who would harm themselves and the society. It appears on all front that once in power, Africans in Guyana participate in similar obscene racist nonsense as Indians. Amerindians have always borne the burnt. Now it is a growing chorus of the young

it so happens that Shuman's party is also a race-based party

with ALL the potential for corrupt (and racist) behavior just like the two major parties

it so also happens that good people welcome it as a potential power broker

sane people are not holding their breath

FM
cain posted:

That is one confusing article

shuman looks like he is corruptible. juss reading the article brings to mind the PPP and APNU.

He will need a lot of ppl to keep him in line, straight and narrow. Right now, he is not a wealthy person, in Guyana that is a temptation. 

S

Kaieteur news needs to run a background check on Shuman in Canada to see if there are any issues there. Something just does not feel right. A man claims that he is going back to Canada because of a lack of career opportunities then less than a year he is talking about giving up Canadian citizenship. Something just don't feel right with this story.

Prashad
yuji22 posted:

Shuman will be tested at the upcoming election campaign. 

In the meanwhile, PNC is calling for war !

Let's see how his own people treat him. I am sure there is division among the tribes.

The man is renouncing his Canadian citizenship. Does this mean he is also losing his Canadian permanent status? His wife will still retain hers.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

He will have to face a very violent PNC at upcoming elections after their call for war. I don’t think that Shuman can effectively deal with the PNC’s violence and intimidation. 

He is scared to even condemn the PNC !

Sadly, another party with hope bites the dust !

FM
Last edited by Former Member
yuji22 posted:

He will have to face a very violent PNC at upcoming elections after their call for war. I don’t think that Shuman can effectively deal with the PNC’s violence and intimidation. 

He is scared to even condemn the PNC !

Sadly, another party with hope bites the dust !

I would be careful there.  Amerindians are the only people who ever took up arms against the PNC!

Baseman

Not this PNC. This PNC became a wounded lion after the NCV. 

They refused to give him Yumana Yana for launching his party and he folded his tail between his legs and ran away.

This banna does not act like he has native blood. He is Mr. Canadian nice boy.

Nice guys finish last in politics. Chalk one up for another political coward like Cheddi. PNC will chew up and spit out this banna. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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