From the horses mouth

Court of Appeal ruling on GECOM Chairman is giant step backwards

October 22 2018

Source

Dear Editor,

The Guyana Court of Appeal on Thursday, October 18, 2018, upheld the decision of the Chief Justice (ag) as to the legality of the President’s action in appointing Mr. James Patterson to Chair the Guyana Elections Commission.

As a person who presented the PPP’s position to the Constitutional Reform Commission, and who was involved in the numerous struggles for democracy, I am extremely disappointed by this ruling. It is, in my view, a giant step backwards. It is another incident pushing our country along the road to social and economic ruination and towards an authoritarian Government.

I was very much part of the coinage of Article 161 (2) and, therefore, I have personal knowledge of the reasons behind it, the way it evolved to its current expression and the way that it was interpreted and applied in the past. It was never ambiguous and never evoked any controversy over the last 25 years. 

The Constitution was amended to remove the unilateral power of appointment from the President, to introduce the Leader of the Opposition into the equation, in order to achieve political consensus and to widen the pool of persons from which the Chairman is to be chosen. What is so difficult to understand? I am sure that every objective minded Guyanese knows this. In the 1999-2001 constitutional reform process, all the political parties unanimously agreed to constitutionalize this Carter-Price formula. In fact, it is the PNC that led the charge. Its major argument then was that it was important to cement the role of the Leader of the Opposition and to curtail the President’s power of appointment. Now that they are in Government, they are seeking to exclude the Leader of the Opposition and increase the power of the President.

Therein lies the ideological authoritarianism, which exists in the belly of the PNC.

As they did from 1968 to 1992, they now seem to be getting help from the Judiciary.

It is the very Judiciary that allowed itself to be so cowed that Burnham was able to place a party flag in the Court of Appeal compound and against the front wall of the court building, shamelessly contending to the world that the Judiciary was under the control of the PNC. This was allowed to take place by a complicit Judiciary. It is the Judiciary that refused to strike down laws that introduced overseas voting. It is overseas voting that was used to massively rig the first elections of independent Guyana in 1968.

It is the very Judiciary that threw out legal challenges to every election held under the PNC from the 1968 to 1985, when the world knows that each of those elections was massively rigged. It is now the Judiciary that is dilatory on the PPP’s challenge to the 2015 elections, when similar challenges to elections around the world filed after the PPP’s challenge have already been decided by the courts in those countries.

I will never accept that the Court of Appeal does not know the intent of Article 161 (2). From the press reports, they give the impression that they know it well. They upheld Nandlall’s submission and rejected those of Williams, yet they ruled in favour of Williams! The decision simply cannot be justified on rational grounds. When the Judiciary does not stand up courageously to protect our fundamental rights, the society descends into some level of anarchy and social and economic ruination. Cheddi Jagan was always clear on this point. He never failed to point out the link and interaction between the economic base and the superstructure in any society. They influence and interact with each other. The ruling may appear at first to be a victory for the regime but, in fact, it could very well turn out to be one of the biggest blows to all working people, to businesses, indeed, to our country.

Fortunately, the Guyana Court of Appeal is no longer our final court. We now have the Caribbean Court of Justice. This is an important case for that Court. I am looking forward to the decision of that Court, as I know that the matter is going there.

Yours faithfully,

Donald Ramotar

Former President

Original Post

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

Ramu forget to mention the other player Reepu Daman Persaud,who was involve  in crafting Article 161 (2)

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Baseman posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.

Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Exactly what you flying your mouth about?

You must follow posts,

i mentioned the PPP crafted the piece of legislation,when there was amendment to the Constitution,Nehruski tried to put down my statement.

Alyuh must figure why Article 161 (2) was crafted as such,it came back to bite the PPP.

Django posted:
Baseman posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.

Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Exactly what you flying your mouth about?

You must follow posts,

i mentioned the PPP crafted the piece of legislation,when there was amendment to the Constitution,Nehruski tried to put down my statement.

Alyuh must figure why Article 161 (2) was crafted as such,it came back to bite the PPP.

Ok brite boy, you tell us why “it was crafted as such”

For the last few weeks, that’s all you’re opening your mouth and sing without providing any substantial evidence in support of before the amendment and after,  the benefit to PPP after the amendments 

Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

Ramu forget to mention the other player Reepu Daman Persaud,who was involve  in crafting Article 161 (2)

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Django....legally...regardless of what this article says, there is wide room here to make an argument that the President’s unilateral action (it was unilateral) in securing a GECOM chairman was an extra-legal move on his part. Ramotar and Nandlall seems to be making this case.

Politically, it was a move that minimized consultation and compromise, as the original Carter formula intended. For the leader of the country not to have that discussion, then reject 3 submissions, is, in my mind, minimizing the level of compromise and bargaining that is necessary for social cohesion.

Politically also...it shows, at least from the perspective of PPP supporters, that this government is intent, with this action, and others, on minimizing the role of those who are in the opposition.

There is no need to split hairs on this one...the political ramifications of Granger’s actions and the manner in which the person was selected (after 3 submissions!) does not bore well for the country...largely because the institution headed by the GECOM chairman is as controversial as all of Guyana’s elections....including those to come.

Dave posted:
Django posted:
Baseman posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.

Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Exactly what you flying your mouth about?

You must follow posts,

i mentioned the PPP crafted the piece of legislation,when there was amendment to the Constitution,Nehruski tried to put down my statement.

Alyuh must figure why Article 161 (2) was crafted as such,it came back to bite the PPP.

Ok brite boy, you tell us why “it was crafted as such”

For the last few weeks, that’s all you’re opening your mouth and sing without providing any substantial evidence in support of before the amendment and after,  the benefit to PPP after the amendments 

Try to understand the English Language, that piece of article was crafted to continue give power to the President.

Do you know what was the article in the 1980 Constitution,nominating the Chairman of the Elections Commission ?

Do some work and compare the two, by the way alyuh thought the PPP will be in government forever,alyuh leader who came thru the back door,tried a thing suh he will be president for life, oh well he was mowed down.

VishMahabir posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

Ramu forget to mention the other player Reepu Daman Persaud,who was involve  in crafting Article 161 (2)

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Django....legally...regardless of what this article says, there is wide room here to make an argument that the President’s unilateral action (it was unilateral) in securing a GECOM chairman was an extra-legal move on his part. Ramotar and Nandlall seems to be making this case.

Politically, it was a move that minimized consultation and compromise, as the original Carter formula intended. For the leader of the country not to have that discussion, then reject 3 submissions, is, in my mind, minimizing the level of compromise and bargaining that is necessary for social cohesion.

Politically also...it shows, at least from the perspective of PPP supporters, that this government is intent, with this action, and others, on minimizing the role of those who are in the opposition.

There is no need to split hairs on this one...the political ramifications of Granger’s actions and the manner in which the person was selected (after 3 submissions!) does not bore well for the country...largely because the institution headed by the GECOM chairman is as controversial as all of Guyana’s elections....including those to come.

Change the process of selecting the GECOM Chairman,let a Parliamentary Committee,make up of all political parties,make the decision,also remove all political party representation from the Commission give it to independent individuals.That might be tough to find independent individuals in such a small population,so the imbroglio will continue.

Django posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

Ramu forget to mention the other player Reepu Daman Persaud,who was involve  in crafting Article 161 (2)

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Django....legally...regardless of what this article says, there is wide room here to make an argument that the President’s unilateral action (it was unilateral) in securing a GECOM chairman was an extra-legal move on his part. Ramotar and Nandlall seems to be making this case.

Politically, it was a move that minimized consultation and compromise, as the original Carter formula intended. For the leader of the country not to have that discussion, then reject 3 submissions, is, in my mind, minimizing the level of compromise and bargaining that is necessary for social cohesion.

Politically also...it shows, at least from the perspective of PPP supporters, that this government is intent, with this action, and others, on minimizing the role of those who are in the opposition.

There is no need to split hairs on this one...the political ramifications of Granger’s actions and the manner in which the person was selected (after 3 submissions!) does not bore well for the country...largely because the institution headed by the GECOM chairman is as controversial as all of Guyana’s elections....including those to come.

Change the process of selecting the GECOM Chairman,let a Parliamentary Committee,make up of all political parties,make the decision,also remove all political party representation from the Commission give it to independent individuals.That might be tough to find independent individuals in such a small population,so the imbroglio will continue.

That sounds like a good plan.

Django posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

Ramu forget to mention the other player Reepu Daman Persaud,who was involve  in crafting Article 161 (2)

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Django....legally...regardless of what this article says, there is wide room here to make an argument that the President’s unilateral action (it was unilateral) in securing a GECOM chairman was an extra-legal move on his part. Ramotar and Nandlall seems to be making this case.

Politically, it was a move that minimized consultation and compromise, as the original Carter formula intended. For the leader of the country not to have that discussion, then reject 3 submissions, is, in my mind, minimizing the level of compromise and bargaining that is necessary for social cohesion.

Politically also...it shows, at least from the perspective of PPP supporters, that this government is intent, with this action, and others, on minimizing the role of those who are in the opposition.

There is no need to split hairs on this one...the political ramifications of Granger’s actions and the manner in which the person was selected (after 3 submissions!) does not bore well for the country...largely because the institution headed by the GECOM chairman is as controversial as all of Guyana’s elections....including those to come.

Change the process of selecting the GECOM Chairman,let a Parliamentary Committee,make up of all political parties,make the decision,also remove all political party representation from the Commission give it to independent individuals.That might be tough to find independent individuals in such a small population,so the imbroglio will continue.

Would your dictator Prezzy agree to this?

VishMahabir posted:
 
Django posted:

Change the process of selecting the GECOM Chairman,let a Parliamentary Committee,make up of all political parties,make the decision,also remove all political party representation from the Commission give it to independent individuals.That might be tough to find independent individuals in such a small population,so the imbroglio will continue.

That sounds like a good plan.

That's the way it should have been,the PPP had a chance to implement such.Knowing them old PNC-ite they wont make the chance.

Anyway the people should bond together and fight for these changes,let it be a level playing field.

My cup of tea,in any country periodic change of government is healthy for democracy.

Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
 

Would your dictator Prezzy agree to this?

Hogwash !!!

read my post above.

Django bhai, nah get so defensive dis early marnin. Looks like you smoking some of that cheap weed you hide under your workbench. Have to ask Brother Cain to recommend some potent stuff. 

According to Mr Ramotar, Article 161 (2) was "coined" during the PPP regime to include the Opposition Leader in the equation for consensus sake and to remove the unilateral presidential power to appoint a GECOM chairman. So, since a PPP President agreed to Article 161 (2), how can Django argue that the  PPP thought it would rule forever? I think Granger has blatantly removed from the equation the Opposition Leader provision. THAT is authoritarian.

Gilbakka posted:

According to Mr Ramotar, Article 161 (2) was "coined" during the PPP regime to include the Opposition Leader in the equation for consensus sake and to remove the unilateral presidential power to appoint a GECOM chairman. So, since a PPP President agreed to Article 161 (2), how can Django argue that the  PPP thought it would rule forever? I think Granger has blatantly removed from the equation the Opposition Leader provision. THAT is authoritarian.

Ramotar and the deceased Reepu, thinks they were smart men ,read the article word for word you will see skulduggery.

yuji22 posted:

To put it bluntly, Granger is a pro Burnham style Thug and Bully. 

All Black PNC presidents were riggers and thugs, Granger is following closely in their footsteps. 

This mantra getting old, there will always be a Black or Indian President,until a Mixed or Amerindian emerged. There is no need to rig any elections currently.

Find another mantra to sing.

Django posted:
Dave posted:
Django posted:
Baseman posted:
Django posted:

Mr. Nehruski read what Donald Ramouthar said.

Well VISHMAHABIR,the young kid have to be excused due to his age.

When Django open his mouth,the truth come out.

Exactly what you flying your mouth about?

You must follow posts,

i mentioned the PPP crafted the piece of legislation,when there was amendment to the Constitution,Nehruski tried to put down my statement.

Alyuh must figure why Article 161 (2) was crafted as such,it came back to bite the PPP.

Ok brite boy, you tell us why “it was crafted as such”

For the last few weeks, that’s all you’re opening your mouth and sing without providing any substantial evidence in support of before the amendment and after,  the benefit to PPP after the amendments 

Try to understand the English Language, that piece of article was crafted to continue give power to the President.

Do you know what was the article in the 1980 Constitution,nominating the Chairman of the Elections Commission ?

Do some work and compare the two, by the way alyuh thought the PPP will be in government forever,alyuh leader who came thru the back door,tried a thing suh he will be president for life, oh well he was mowed down.

1. I fully understand English language unlike you.. don"t throw stone @someone glass house  when you live in one, i may not be good in English, but I have good common sense.

now down to business what you flying your two sided mouth about.

Folks, one minute Django is about fairness to the people, now he is about PPP crafting a constitution that came back to bite them... make up your bloody mind.

The 1980 constitution was for a consultation or so with the opposition leader.. Burnham could have picked the phone all tell Cheddie, this is the election chairman period. Hoyte use the same constitution.

The PPP with consultation with PNC changes the constitution to have more inclusiveness of the opposition. The same PNC who riots in GT about the 1980 constitution after using same for decades.

The amendments - "there shall be a chairman , who shall be a full-time chairman appointed by the President from a list of six persons, not unacceptable to the President, submitted to the President by the Leader of the opposition after meaningful consultation with the non-governmental parties in the National Assembly"

the current chairman selected by Granger  is a religious leader who was a pall bearer at Hoyte funeral and the fact that he Patterson the current chairman lied  on his CV when he said he was the Chief Justice of Grenada.Paterson blames his pen -- ayo en shame Django.

the part of your response I highlite, why drag yourself down the gutter , you are better that this.

Django:

This mantra getting old, there will always be a Black or Indian President,until a Mixed or Amerindian emerged. There is no need to rig any elections currently.

Find another mantra to sing.

Hari Om Hari....

A mantra like that? Me tired hearing dat black mantra too.

Django posted:
Gilbakka posted:

According to Mr Ramotar, Article 161 (2) was "coined" during the PPP regime to include the Opposition Leader in the equation for consensus sake and to remove the unilateral presidential power to appoint a GECOM chairman. So, since a PPP President agreed to Article 161 (2), how can Django argue that the  PPP thought it would rule forever? I think Granger has blatantly removed from the equation the Opposition Leader provision. THAT is authoritarian.

Ramotar and the deceased Reepu, thinks they were smart men ,read the article word for word you will see skulduggery.

There were 48 MP who voted for the bill including Dr Roopnarine and Moses Nagamooto and was assented  to by Hinds who was acting as President.

Gilbakka posted:
Django:

This mantra getting old, there will always be a Black or Indian President,until a Mixed or Amerindian emerged. There is no need to rig any elections currently.

Find another mantra to sing.

Hari Om Hari....

A mantra like that? Me tired hearing dat black mantra too.

That's right Djangy.

 

Yogapedia explains Hari Om

Repetition of Hari Om forms a type of meditation in itself, referred to simply as Hari Om meditation. To meditate on Hari Om is said to activate the chakras. In doing so, kundalini energy, which is stored at the base of the spine.

Yeah, you need some of that Kundalini energy

Dave posted:
Django posted:
 

Try to understand the English Language, that piece of article was crafted to continue give power to the President.

Do you know what was the article in the 1980 Constitution,nominating the Chairman of the Elections Commission ?

Do some work and compare the two, by the way alyuh thought the PPP will be in government forever,alyuh leader who came thru the back door,tried a thing suh he will be president for life, oh well he was mowed down.

1. I fully understand English language unlike you.. don"t throw stone @someone glass house  when you live in one, i may not be good in English, but I have good common sense.

now down to business what you flying your two sided mouth about.

Folks, one minute Django is about fairness to the people, now he is about PPP crafting a constitution that came back to bite them... make up your bloody mind.

The 1980 constitution was for a consultation or so with the opposition leader.. Burnham could have picked the phone all tell Cheddie, this is the election chairman period. Hoyte use the same constitution.

The PPP with consultation with PNC changes the constitution to have more inclusiveness of the opposition. The same PNC who riots in GT about the 1980 constitution after using same for decades.

The amendments - "there shall be a chairman , who shall be a full-time chairman appointed by the President from a list of six persons, not unacceptable to the President, submitted to the President by the Leader of the opposition after meaningful consultation with the non-governmental parties in the National Assembly"

the current chairman selected by Granger  is a religious leader who was a pall bearer at Hoyte funeral and the fact that he Patterson the current chairman lied  on his CV when he said he was the Chief Justice of Grenada.Paterson blames his pen -- ayo en shame Django.

the part of your response I highlite, why drag yourself down the gutter , you are better that this.

The bold in your post i does call culvert corner discussion.


 

161. Elections Commission


(1) There shall be an Elections Commission for Guyana consisting of a Chairman,
who shall be a full-time Chairman and shall not engage in any other form of
employment, and such other members as may be appointed in accordance with
the provisions of this article.


(2) Subject to the provisions or paragraph (4), the Chairman of the Elections
Commission shall be a person who holds or who has held office as a judge of a
court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of
the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court
or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge, or any other fit and proper
person, to be appointed by the President from a list of six persons, not
unacceptable to the President, submitted by the Leader of the Opposition after
meaningful consultation with the non-governmental political parties
represented in the National Assembly:

Provided that if the Leader of the Opposition fails to submit a list as provided
for, the President shall appoint a person who holds or has held office as a judge
of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part
of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such
court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge.


 

The above is the article from the Constitution.Now use your commonsense and tell,why the eight words in bold and highlighted was inserted.

skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Django:

This mantra getting old, there will always be a Black or Indian President,until a Mixed or Amerindian emerged. There is no need to rig any elections currently.

Find another mantra to sing.

Hari Om Hari....

A mantra like that? Me tired hearing dat black mantra too.

That's right Djangy.

 

Yogapedia explains Hari Om

Repetition of Hari Om forms a type of meditation in itself, referred to simply as Hari Om meditation. To meditate on Hari Om is said to activate the chakras. In doing so, kundalini energy, which is stored at the base of the spine.

Yeah, you need some of that Kundalini energy

I prefer "Yoga Meditation" to blank your mind the things around you.

Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Django:

This mantra getting old, there will always be a Black or Indian President,until a Mixed or Amerindian emerged. There is no need to rig any elections currently.

Find another mantra to sing.

Hari Om Hari....

A mantra like that? Me tired hearing dat black mantra too.

That's right Djangy.

 

Yogapedia explains Hari Om

Repetition of Hari Om forms a type of meditation in itself, referred to simply as Hari Om meditation. To meditate on Hari Om is said to activate the chakras. In doing so, kundalini energy, which is stored at the base of the spine.

Yeah, you need some of that Kundalini energy

I prefer "Yoga" to blank your mind the things around you.

I exercise regularly. My mind is blank most of the time anyway. Don't need Yoga for that.

skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Django:

This mantra getting old, there will always be a Black or Indian President,until a Mixed or Amerindian emerged. There is no need to rig any elections currently.

Find another mantra to sing.

Hari Om Hari....

A mantra like that? Me tired hearing dat black mantra too.

That's right Djangy.

 

Yogapedia explains Hari Om

Repetition of Hari Om forms a type of meditation in itself, referred to simply as Hari Om meditation. To meditate on Hari Om is said to activate the chakras. In doing so, kundalini energy, which is stored at the base of the spine.

Yeah, you need some of that Kundalini energy

I prefer "Yoga" to blank your mind the things around you.

I exercise regularly. My mind is blank most of the time anyway. Don't need Yoga for that.

My exercise is the six hrs at work,lifting,walking and sitting.Yoga position and meditation is good for the mind.

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