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FM
Former Member

Media Monitoring Unit: Jagdeo’s remarks were racially divisive

 

The Media Monitoring Unit (MMU) of the Guyana Elections Commission says controversial remarks by President Bharrat Jagdeo at Port Mourant on March 8 were racially divisive.

In its first report on the media’s coverage of the election campaign, the MMU yesterday addressed the public outcry over the remarks by Jagdeo at a commemoration ceremony for late President, Dr Cheddi Jagan.

Noting that the entire speech by Jagdeo had been broadcast by state television, NCN, the MMU said that this opened the way for it to address the matter.

It noted that the controversial section of the speech went as follows:

“…but they consistently, they shout about racism of the PPP, but they practise racism. They whisper campaigns. In the last elections they went to some of the Afro- Guyanese villages and beat some drums at 6 O’clock in the morning and say let us throw out these coolie people. Get up, go out and vote, throw out the coolie people. That’s the kind of language they use. Anybody from our party who uses that sort of language, we will kick them out. This is our approach.” [Source: NCN TV, March 9, 2015].

After reviewing the remarks made, the MMU said it took the position that it was obvious that. Jagdeo “was using a racial mobilization incident that allegedly occurred during the 2011 elections [which, for the record, was the first time such details were ever publicly disclosed by anyone from the ruling PPP/C, the opposition political parties, local civil society, international elections observers, or the media] to make the point that racism will not be tolerated by his political party, the PPP/C. On the face of it, this is salutary. However, what was palpably disconcerting about the remarks made, is where they were uttered, the occasion on which they were stated, and the immediate receptors of the message.”

It said that Jagdeo’s comments could not be viewed in isolation from the environment in which they were uttered, noting that he was speaking in a known PPP/C stronghold, before a predominantly East Indian audience, and in a highly-charged political and ethnic environment.

“Taking into consideration the historically and politically influenced divisions that persists up to now between Africans and East Indians in this country, and which are usually more pronounced during elections periods, the Unit came to the conclusion that the anecdotal illustration used by Dr. Jagdeo to make his point about racism, boomeranged disastrously, since it came over as a calculated exploitation, for political purposes, of the known fears and insecurities of one section of the population – East Indians.

“It is within the foregoing context that the Unit verily concluded that the remarks made by Dr. Jagdeo were racially divisive (probably, not intentionally), and should have been edited by all sections of the media that broadcast or printed the remarks verbatim. The airing/publication of the comments as is, was a breach of Section B (1) of the MCC, which states inter alia, that the media should `…refrain from publishing or broadcasting any matter with the potential for, or likelihood of promoting or inciting hatred of any kind (including ethnic and political hatred)…’”

The unit noted that two television stations aired Jagdeo’s speech in- extenso, whilst one newspaper and some on-line news sites carried only the excerpted part as quoted above. At the same time, the MMU observed that many media houses from both the state and private media shied away from reproducing the full speech or the contentious part thereof. It said that the actions of these media houses should not go unmentioned and it commended them for this.

Despite the widespread criticism of his remarks, at a press conference on March 10, Jagdeo defended his presentation, saying that he was “proud” of raising the issue of race.

He said that by using a derogatory term for Indo-Guyanese, he was bringing light to “whisper campaigns” utilised by the opposition. He said that media entities were misguided in inferring that he was implying that the People’s Progressive Party is a race-oriented party.

When asked by Stabroek News for proof of racial incitements by the opposition in the 2011 general election, Jagdeo could provide none. He said that the evidence was there and his claim that opposition leaders ventured into villages beating drums and making racial remarks could be substantiated. The former president blamed the opposition for initially engaging in race-baiting citing his unsubstantiated claims of drum beating in villages prior to the 2011 general elections.

He said “They did it in South (Ruimveldt). I hope this doesn’t happen these elections because they did the last elections. We know racism exists we know they use that language to campaign but if we use it we are exacerbating it?

“You should really go after the people who used it in a derogatory way not me who is trying to fight this… Now when I want to fight that you are saying it’s some evidence of some divisiveness …

“I believe that the mere fact we are talking about it here today gives hope that everybody will be vigilant on the campaign, that we don’t use that language. And you as well as me will keep your ears open also for the whisper campaign.

“From the last election to now I can bring maybe five persons who can say we have heard this in our homes or heard that, the drum beating people walking to their homes and saying and shouting this. Would that be enough for you? Or does the Stabroek News want me to sign it and have it notarized and stuff like that?”

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Here is more:

Jagdeo slammed over military invasion statement

– accused of scaremongering

A number of ex-senior military and police officers have slammed former president Bharrat Jagdeo over his statements that the police and defence forces would be compromised should the coalition win next month’s general elections.

Speaking at a People’s Progressive Party campaign rally at Albion Berbice on Sunday, Jagdeo told attendees that if they voted for the APNU+AFC coalition and that party won they ran the risk of having their homes invaded by the military.

When they link up with the military, as they have done, and come into your homes and start kicking the doors down and when they come after you, who is going to be there?” Jagdeo said.

Gary BestGary Best Winston Felix Winston Felix

“They are going to subvert the professionalism of the army and police because there will be no professional army or police. The entire executive is dominated by senior ex-policemen and ex-soldiers there can be no professionalism as was done in the past. So there are lots of things we have to be fearful about and lots of things we have to do in the future. I urge you when you go home think on these things,” he added.

He also said that his party has asked for international observers to witness the May 11 elections as it believes that if it wins marginally there would be unrest fuelled by the opposition.

To this end he called on voters, to turn out to give his party a resounding victory pleading with his party supporters to not “drink rum” on the eve of or on polling day to impair their voting.

“Go to every home in your village, whether they voted AFC or PPP… You must be more hyped up than Freedom House. We need to demonstrate decisively because they are already questioning the list… If the victory is narrow they may want to create violence,” he said.

His comments did not go down well with current and past hierarchy of the Guyana Police Force and the Guyana Defence Force and Jagdeo was accused of scaremongering to being “downright insulting” to the men and women who have or are serving in both disciplines.

“These comments serve to criminalize the military and put our soldiers at the risk of being attacked by persons who believe they will kick down their doors and bring them harm. I strongly condemn these statements as divisive and race baiting,” former Rear Admiral of the GDF Gary Best told Stabroek News.

“The remarks made by former and current government officials at several political rallies to the effect that an APNU+AFC victory would result in the militarization of Guyana and a link up with the military to enter the homes and kick down the doors of Guyanese citizens and such other comments are an insult to the citizens of this country, an insult to the service of former military ranks and an insult to the current military men and women who are serving this country,” Best also stated.

Best in his condemnation of Jagdeo’s comments labelled them as divisive and race baiting.

He believes that the presence of former military ranks, now civilians, within the APNU+AFC political structure serves to provide this nation with a disciplined level of their service as citizens.

“I have every confidence that our past military will continue to develop this nation in the best way possible and those who chose politics present no danger to the nation but rather a wealth of experience and talent that out nation badly needs at this hour,” he stressed. “The Guyana Defence Force subscribes to the values and standards that include duty, integrity, respect for others and appropriate military conduct which servers to reinforce its professional standards. These values and standards are taught at every level in the force …I have every confidence that the Guyana Defence Force will continue to execute its duties to the nation in the professional manner it has adopted since inception, notwithstanding, insulting and unfounded attacks on its integrity.”

Former Commissioner of Police and APNU+AFC executive Winston Felix also denounced Jagdeo statements saying that his party believes it’s a psychological electioneering tactic used by the PPP to create fear in its supporters and thus influence their voting choices.

“It part of scaremongering and much ado about nothing because professional people deal differently … They are trying to whip up hysteria in their constituency unnecessarily,” he said.

“There is nothing to fear from an ex-military man getting involved in the politics, absolutely nothing. How he conducts himself [you] judge him on that. When your career is over as military or police you are free to choose any other career and there is no barrier. If you check history a number of US presidents have had military careers. They are creating an unfavourable opinion against former military and police in the APNU and AFC,” he added.

However he does not believe that scaremongering will influence the voting populace as he said persons are smarter and will see the statements as “dehumanizing” and will focus on issues as they know that many ex-military persons have diversified their careers upon leaving the disciplined forces.

He assured voters that ex-military in the coalition are there to help to build the country and they have nothing to fear. “We mean no harm we consider our input service to the development of this country,” he said.

Felix’s views were echoed by a current high ranking officer of the GDF who said he took offence to Jagdeo’s comments. He too assured that the GDF will continue to be professional in the execution of its duties and will not be influenced by the politics of the country.

“It is a slap in the face of our brave men and women who have and are serving this country with dignity… Voters have to have more sense than to allow anyone to put any fear into them to pull their votes,” the officer said.

“We will not be pulled into the muckraking politics that seeks to dehumanize our servicemen and women,” he added.

FM
Originally Posted by VVP:

VishMahabir, these were the posts I was referring you to that you said you did not see.  Note sure if you were able to read them on SN.

VVP, thank you. I am attending classes. I will share my comments with you later this evening. Good to see you are, like I am, taking a keen interest in developments in the homeland.

Vish

V

Former Presidents benefits bill showed how rapacious Jagdeo gov’t was – Greenidge

April 14, 2012

 

Lead Opposition spokesperson on economic issues Carl Greenidge says the fact that former President Bharrat Jagdeo signed into law the Former Presidents (Benefits and Other Facilities) Act 2009 shows how rapacious an administration he led and how contemptuous he is of the Guyanese people given income disparities.

The Parliament last week passed a Motion tabled by Greenidge seeking a revision of the President’s benefits and other facilities. Greenidge is also to bring a Bill to the National Assembly seeking to amend the Former Presidents (Benefits and Other Facilities) Act and will seek to impose caps and limits on those benefits and facilities.

Speaking in an interview with this newspaper last week, Greenidge said that contrary to the points Government Members of Parliament raised during the debate on the Motion two Thursdays ago, there is only one qualification required for entitlement to a Presidential Pension and for the facilities under the Former Presidents (Benefits and Other Facilities) Act. “That requirement is to have served as a President. This means that a former President’s niceness, how he treated his wife etc are not considerations. So the long treatise of the AG and company on how great a President or person Mr. Jagdeo is are all irrelevant,” he said.

“The main concern of the House and most importantly, of the public is that the Constitution specifically provides for a former President to have a pension or a gratuity,” he said.  “It makes no provision for additional benefits such as a salary or allowances on top of a pension.  No other politician or individual public servant enjoys these additional benefits along with a Pension,” Greenidge pointed out, adding that no other category of officer except Judges receives a pension in excess of their last salary.

Greenidge noted that it is likely that in 2002 the Constitution Reform Committee recognized that the former President’s proposed pension was already generous enough. “For that reason the omission of other benefits and facilities was probably deliberate. In that sense seeking to pay those benefits may be illegal,” he said.

“In spite of this provision in the Constitution, the Government has only now sought to and actually provide for benefits, but has provided benefits which are unlimited. The benefits will be enjoyed throughout the lifetime of a former President. There is no cap on the number of vehicles to which he is entitled, no restriction on the utilities bill,  no restrictions regarding medical facilities to be enjoyed by an unspecified number of dependants beyond a spouse,” the former Minister of Finance under the PNC administration said.

 

“In fact, at a time when the Government says it cannot find funds to pay for more than $10,000 per month to pensioners although the APNU asked for $15,000, a President is being paid a multiple of that for his electricity bill aloneHis monthly pension is over 80 times that of a pensioner and seven times the full salary of a Parliamen-tarian and as much as 40 times the pension of some former Ministers,” said Greenidge.

“If the payment received by these other categories is all that the country can afford, how is it that the GOG can pay a Former President over $800,000 per month?” he inquired. He said in addition to these benefits, the former President has been given tax free status “as though he were still a serving President.” He asked why a former President should be able to import a vehicle duty free if that former President is getting however many cars he or she asks from the state for the rest of his or her life.

Greenidge pointed out that in Trinidad and Tobago, the Prime Minister’s benefits are limited and tied to those of public servants. He said also that in the US, personal security will only be provided to a former President for 10 years after he or she demits office. “In the US, all the benefits due to a former President are capped, i.e. there is a ceiling on them. Furthermore, each year the facilities and benefits have to be budgeted, valued, and approved. They cannot be limitless as in Guyana’s loosely drafted statute,” Greenidge argued.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Excerpt of what VishMahabir said on the other thread:

 

All Guyanese share a pride in their culture and race, and while some people may not want to admit this publicly, we all do hold stereotypes and "racial views" towards each other. The racial divisions in Guyana continue to reinforce these views. .."Blacks are criminals", "Indians" are corrupt, etc.

 

Jagdeo was simply referring to what was common during election time in Guyana, namely the "whispering campaign" which takes place at the non-public level (Ralph Premdas and J.E Greene wrote about this in their studies of Guyanese elections). Jagdeo was reporting what he was told and knew and he made that clear in his remarks, granted it was probably a very poor choice of words. He stuck to this defense during the press conference (check the link you sent me). This does not make him a racist, as per our definition above. People like Freddie Kissoon, Chris Ram, KN and SN, all with very personal grudges against the PPP and Jagdeo (and again, I am admitting Jagdeo and the PPP contributed to this acrimonious situation) were successful in promoting the "racist label" on the PPP and Jagdeo. GECOM’s leader, through which we now have the MMU report,  also was no friend of the PPP. Look at his behavior during the election when the PPP called for a recount. As Demerara-Guy reminded us, when elections are this close, it makes perfect sense to have a recount. From what I heard from my friends in Guyana, Surujbally also had his personal grudge because the PPP was accused of firing his wife from the job she held. The MMU also took the same position (believe they were the first to do so) regarding Jagdeo.  We have to remember though that this was during an election campaign and the words Jagdeo used were in poor judgment but the "racist" label in my judgment does not hold. Thus, I think the lawsuit, brought on by Ram, who was publicly humiliated by Jagdeo at Reepu Daman’s funeral (I believe), is based on frivolous charges.       

 

On the issue of "fearmongering",  the PPP was reminding its supporters, many Berbicians who departed from the party, about how dred things were during the PNC years (it’s a party grounded in history…an important element to the Marxist interpretation of events)  during the campaign.  Guyana was very militarized and the police and army played a pivotal role in civilian politics in the 1970s and 1980s, leading to mass exodus of a lot of Guyanese, mostly Indians (borne out by the Guyana census records). This was a time also when during the depredations of the 1980s when “kick down the door” bandits became more brazen. Many of them were generally either ex-military or army mem with guns. This was a new kind of crime phenomenon that gripped the country. The book, “Domination and Power in Guyana : A Study of the Police in a Third World Context (1982, Hardcover) by George K. Danns (an African Guyanese) traces this evolution of the military very well. Lets not forget that two notorious criminals, Blackie London was an ex GDF Special Force graduate and Andrew Douglas was a policeman. “Before he was killed in a shoot-out in 2000, he had robbed more that $150 million dollars and dozens had been killed, kidnapped or maimed by his gang. In 1998-1999 alone, over 30 businessmen had been killed. Yet the apostle of peace and reconciliation, Desmond Hoyte, saw it fit to drape London’s coffin with the flag of Guyana” (from Guyana Times). The Mash Jailbreak of 2002 was preceded by elections in 2001, which once again precipitated protests in Georgetown and the East Coast. It should be noted that the leader of the Mash Jailbreak Five, Andrew Douglas, was a lieutenant in Blackie London’s criminal gang. Douglas and his band of terrorists (some people called them “freedom fighters&rdquo took refuge in Buxton.

You may want to look at this site for more information regarding the events of the early 2000s in Guyana:http://www.guyanaundersiege.co...itancydeathsquad.htm

In Blackie’s case, he was made a ‘hero’ and Andrew Douglas was described as a ‘martyr’. This is the kind of background that formed the basis for those comments by Jagdeo. They were not pulled out of thin air. But people have a tendency to forget, with time.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

VishMahabir,

 

You wrote a lot but you did not really address why Jagdeo went about with his racist rants I highlighted in my post above.  He are the pertinent pieces of what you wrote:

Jagdeo was simply referring to what was common during election time in Guyana, namely the "whispering campaign" which takes place at the non-public level (Ralph Premdas and J.E Greene wrote about this in their studies of Guyanese elections). Jagdeo was reporting what he was told and knew and he made that clear in his remarks, granted it was probably a very poor choice of words. 

On the issue of "fearmongering",  the PPP was reminding its supporters, many Berbicians who departed from the party, about how dred things were during the PNC years (it’s a party grounded in history…an important element to the Marxist interpretation of events)  during the campaign.  Guyana was very militarized and the police and army played a pivotal role in civilian politics in the 1970s and 1980s, leading to mass exodus of a lot of Guyanese, mostly Indians (borne out by the Guyana census records).

___________________________________________________________

All that you said above is exactly what qualifies as race baiting and race hating.  There is no reason for giving excuses for Jagdeo's actions.

 

HERE is why he did what he did. It was all for selfish reasons to protect his turf and the corrupt practices of certain elements of the PPP.  He did not care a rats ass about Indians and Guyana.  All he saw in Indians was the ability to get the PPP re-elected.  If the PPP does not subvert the current government, Indians might be better off under the coalition than under the PPP.  Only a few and mainly the corrupt prospered under the PPP...both Africans and Indians who were willing to trample on the dignity of the Guyanese people to enrich themselves.

 

My biggest problem with the lot  that still favor Jagdeo is how can you accept such a man when he is clearly corrupt and ROBBED GUYANA and GUYANESE.  You know some Guyanese tell me "is wha wrany if the man corrupt all dem head of state corrupt."  This is the Guyanese (and mainly Indian) thinking.  Anybody who thinks like this, I do not need to be bother with them.  Like I always say, I will not be a favorite of any body on this BB because I am totally non-aligned and will call anyone out if I do not agree with them.

 

You need to tell us Vish why should a corrupt person like Jagdeo be given a chance to lead the PPP?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by VVP:

Excerpt of what VishMahabir said on the other thread:

 

All Guyanese share a pride in their culture and race, and while some people may not want to admit this publicly, we all do hold stereotypes and "racial views" towards each other. The racial divisions in Guyana continue to reinforce these views. .."Blacks are criminals", "Indians" are corrupt, etc.

 

Jagdeo was simply referring to what was common during election time in Guyana, namely the "whispering campaign" which takes place at the non-public level (Ralph Premdas and J.E Greene wrote about this in their studies of Guyanese elections). Jagdeo was reporting what he was told and knew and he made that clear in his remarks, granted it was probably a very poor choice of words. He stuck to this defense during the press conference (check the link you sent me). This does not make him a racist, as per our definition above. People like Freddie Kissoon, Chris Ram, KN and SN, all with very personal grudges against the PPP and Jagdeo (and again, I am admitting Jagdeo and the PPP contributed to this acrimonious situation) were successful in promoting the "racist label" on the PPP and Jagdeo. GECOM’s leader, through which we now have the MMU report,  also was no friend of the PPP. Look at his behavior during the election when the PPP called for a recount. As Demerara-Guy reminded us, when elections are this close, it makes perfect sense to have a recount. From what I heard from my friends in Guyana, Surujbally also had his personal grudge because the PPP was accused of firing his wife from the job she held. The MMU also took the same position (believe they were the first to do so) regarding Jagdeo.  We have to remember though that this was during an election campaign and the words Jagdeo used were in poor judgment but the "racist" label in my judgment does not hold. Thus, I think the lawsuit, brought on by Ram, who was publicly humiliated by Jagdeo at Reepu Daman’s funeral (I believe), is based on frivolous charges.       

 

On the issue of "fearmongering",  the PPP was reminding its supporters, many Berbicians who departed from the party, about how dred things were during the PNC years (it’s a party grounded in history…an important element to the Marxist interpretation of events)  during the campaign.  Guyana was very militarized and the police and army played a pivotal role in civilian politics in the 1970s and 1980s, leading to mass exodus of a lot of Guyanese, mostly Indians (borne out by the Guyana census records). This was a time also when during the depredations of the 1980s when “kick down the door” bandits became more brazen. Many of them were generally either ex-military or army mem with guns. This was a new kind of crime phenomenon that gripped the country. The book, “Domination and Power in Guyana : A Study of the Police in a Third World Context (1982, Hardcover) by George K. Danns (an African Guyanese) traces this evolution of the military very well. Lets not forget that two notorious criminals, Blackie London was an ex GDF Special Force graduate and Andrew Douglas was a policeman. “Before he was killed in a shoot-out in 2000, he had robbed more that $150 million dollars and dozens had been killed, kidnapped or maimed by his gang. In 1998-1999 alone, over 30 businessmen had been killed. Yet the apostle of peace and reconciliation, Desmond Hoyte, saw it fit to drape London’s coffin with the flag of Guyana” (from Guyana Times). The Mash Jailbreak of 2002 was preceded by elections in 2001, which once again precipitated protests in Georgetown and the East Coast. It should be noted that the leader of the Mash Jailbreak Five, Andrew Douglas, was a lieutenant in Blackie London’s criminal gang. Douglas and his band of terrorists (some people called them “freedom fighters&rdquo took refuge in Buxton.

You may want to look at this site for more information regarding the events of the early 2000s in Guyana:http://www.guyanaundersiege.co...itancydeathsquad.htm

In Blackie’s case, he was made a ‘hero’ and Andrew Douglas was described as a ‘martyr’. This is the kind of background that formed the basis for those comments by Jagdeo. They were not pulled out of thin air. But people have a tendency to forget, with time.

you and your crude bigot friends make me laff with your incoherent 'defense' of the indefensible coward jagdeo

 

what was the PPP purpose in passing this law again?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Redux,

The purpose of the law was to target ROAR if necessary and to ban ROAR from contesting elections. That's it. The law is also of questionable constitutional status for a variety of reasons.
FM

This is not a choice you or I have. If we think Hillary is a better choice to lead America but Trump emerges as the winner, then so be it. Some people felt that Moses would have been a better person to lead the coalition than Granger, given his tainted military background and loyalty to Burnham and rigged elections. However,m this was a decision that the coalition made. If the PPP internal apparatchiks decide that Jagdeo is the best person who can lead the PPP at this juncture, that is a decision they have made. Granted, he will be facing an enormous uphill struggle. Whether you like it or not, Jagdeo is still very popular among Indians. Who knows, if he can withstand the challenges, the coalition may make him a martys in the eyes of his supporters. This is not for us to decide. And by the way, perhaps Jagdeo will be able to reinvest himself and reinvent the PPP. Hopefully, they have learnt some important lesson from the 2015 elections. Dont you believe in forgiveness and redemption?  

V
Originally Posted by redux:
 

you and your crude bigot friends make me laff with your incoherent 'defense' of the indefensible coward jagdeo

 

what was the PPP purpose in passing this law again?

you who bai?

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Redux,

The purpose of the law was to target ROAR if necessary and to ban ROAR from contesting elections. That's it. The law is also of questionable constitutional status for a variety of reasons.

Not sure about this law being passed to prevent ROAR from running...dont have any information regarding this issue. However, I maintain that its a silly law and I am guessing Jagdeo will be able to defend himself against it. 

V
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

This is not a choice you or I have. If we think Hillary is a better choice to lead America but Trump emerges as the winner, then so be it. Some people felt that Moses would have been a better person to lead the coalition than Granger, given his tainted military background and loyalty to Burnham and rigged elections. However,m this was a decision that the coalition made. If the PPP internal apparatchiks decide that Jagdeo is the best person who can lead the PPP at this juncture, that is a decision they have made. Granted, he will be facing an enormous uphill struggle. Whether you like it or not, Jagdeo is still very popular among Indians. Who knows, if he can withstand the challenges, the coalition may make him a martys in the eyes of his supporters. This is not for us to decide. And by the way, perhaps Jagdeo will be able to reinvest himself and reinvent the PPP. Hopefully, they have learnt some important lesson from the 2015 elections. Dont you believe in forgiveness and redemption?  

No Vish I do not believe in forgiveness and redemption for a thief who raped MY COUNTRY and robbed Guyanese.  Understand that the great majority of Indians are not really educated.  Most of the places he targeted are where the Africans do not live.  Shouldn't it be the Indians in Georgetown he should be addressing.  How may Berbicians and Essequibans suffered during the rampage in 1997?  My problem is that you have to forgive the uneducated, but educated people backing that guy?  Man come on.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

This is not a choice you or I have. If we think Hillary is a better choice to lead America but Trump emerges as the winner, then so be it. Some people felt that Moses would have been a better person to lead the coalition than Granger, given his tainted military background and loyalty to Burnham and rigged elections. However,m this was a decision that the coalition made. If the PPP internal apparatchiks decide that Jagdeo is the best person who can lead the PPP at this juncture, that is a decision they have made. Granted, he will be facing an enormous uphill struggle. Whether you like it or not, Jagdeo is still very popular among Indians. Who knows, if he can withstand the challenges, the coalition may make him a martys in the eyes of his supporters. This is not for us to decide. And by the way, perhaps Jagdeo will be able to reinvest himself and reinvent the PPP. Hopefully, they have learnt some important lesson from the 2015 elections. Dont you believe in forgiveness and redemption?  

No Vish I do not believe in forgiveness and redemption for a thief who raped MY COUNTRY and robbed Guyanese.  Understand that the great majority of Indians are not really educated.  Most of the places he targeted are where the Africans do not live.  Shouldn't it be the Indians in Georgetown he should be addressing.  How may Berbicians and Essequibans suffered during the rampage in 1997?  My problem is that you have to forgive the uneducated, but educated people backing that guy?  Man come on.

The uneducated Indians still have loyalty to Jagdeo. They are large in number. They will continue to support Jagdeo and the PPP. The PPP still sees itself as a working class party. It will be interesting to see how Jagdeo and the PPP deal with these challenges. 

V
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

This is not a choice you or I have. If we think Hillary is a better choice to lead America but Trump emerges as the winner, then so be it. Some people felt that Moses would have been a better person to lead the coalition than Granger, given his tainted military background and loyalty to Burnham and rigged elections. However,m this was a decision that the coalition made. If the PPP internal apparatchiks decide that Jagdeo is the best person who can lead the PPP at this juncture, that is a decision they have made. Granted, he will be facing an enormous uphill struggle. Whether you like it or not, Jagdeo is still very popular among Indians. Who knows, if he can withstand the challenges, the coalition may make him a martys in the eyes of his supporters. This is not for us to decide. And by the way, perhaps Jagdeo will be able to reinvest himself and reinvent the PPP. Hopefully, they have learnt some important lesson from the 2015 elections. Dont you believe in forgiveness and redemption?  

No Vish I do not believe in forgiveness and redemption for a thief who raped MY COUNTRY and robbed Guyanese.  Understand that the great majority of Indians are not really educated.  Most of the places he targeted are where the Africans do not live.  Shouldn't it be the Indians in Georgetown he should be addressing.  How may Berbicians and Essequibans suffered during the rampage in 1997?  My problem is that you have to forgive the uneducated, but educated people backing that guy?  Man come on.

The uneducated Indians still have loyalty to Jagdeo. They are large in number. They will continue to support Jagdeo and the PPP. The PPP still sees itself as a working class party. It will be interesting to see how Jagdeo and the PPP deal with these challenges. 

That's fair.  But why are you supporting him since you are an educated person?  Push for change so the party could be the best it can be.

FM
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

This is not a choice you or I have. If we think Hillary is a better choice to lead America but Trump emerges as the winner, then so be it. Some people felt that Moses would have been a better person to lead the coalition than Granger, given his tainted military background and loyalty to Burnham and rigged elections. However,m this was a decision that the coalition made. If the PPP internal apparatchiks decide that Jagdeo is the best person who can lead the PPP at this juncture, that is a decision they have made. Granted, he will be facing an enormous uphill struggle. Whether you like it or not, Jagdeo is still very popular among Indians. Who knows, if he can withstand the challenges, the coalition may make him a martys in the eyes of his supporters. This is not for us to decide. And by the way, perhaps Jagdeo will be able to reinvest himself and reinvent the PPP. Hopefully, they have learnt some important lesson from the 2015 elections. Dont you believe in forgiveness and redemption?  

No Vish I do not believe in forgiveness and redemption for a thief who raped MY COUNTRY and robbed Guyanese.  Understand that the great majority of Indians are not really educated.  Most of the places he targeted are where the Africans do not live.  Shouldn't it be the Indians in Georgetown he should be addressing.  How may Berbicians and Essequibans suffered during the rampage in 1997?  My problem is that you have to forgive the uneducated, but educated people backing that guy?  Man come on.

The uneducated Indians still have loyalty to Jagdeo. They are large in number. They will continue to support Jagdeo and the PPP. The PPP still sees itself as a working class party. It will be interesting to see how Jagdeo and the PPP deal with these challenges. 

That's fair.  But why are you supporting him since you are an educated person?  Push for change so the party could be the best it can be.

It is not that I am supporting him.  I, unfortunately, dont have any influence in the PPP. It is the reality of what we are faced with. I am simply looking at the reality and pointing out the fallacies in people's arguments where I see them. I do believe in having a strong opposition, and will advocate for an inclusive government and a united Guyana....goals which have been elusive so far.

V

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