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FM
Former Member

“Flimsy excuse” of PM not chairing Cabinet is power play attempt by APNU

June 29, 2015 6:02 am[www.inewsguyana.com], Source

 

Former Speaker of the National Assembly, Ralph Ramkarran is predicting trouble in the APNU+AFC coalition camp if it does not adhere to the terms set out in the Cummingsburg Accord, which the two parties signed upon joining forces.

 

In his weekly column, Ramkarran, also a former Executive Member of the People’s Progressive Party reminded that without the Alliance For Change (AFC), there would be no President David Granger.

 

One of the stipulations in the Cummingsburg Accord states that the Prime Minister, Moses Nagamootoo would be responsible for chairing the weekly Cabinet meetings; however since assuming office, President Granger has been chairing the session.

 

When questioned by the media recently, both Nagamootoo and Granger had stated that the Prime Minister cannot chair Cabinet because it is against the constitution and as such, the Cummingsburg Accord is under review.

 

REVISING THE CUMMINGSBURG ACCORD

By Ralph Ramkarran

 

Both APNU and the AFC appear anxious to amend the Cummingsburg Accord allegedly on the ground that the reality of political office has clashed with the Accord’s constitutionality. A series of interviews over the past two weeks given by President Granger and Prime Minister Nagamootoo suggest that a review of the Accord is underway.

 

Both APNU and the AFC appear anxious to amend the Cummingsburg Accord allegedly on the ground that the reality of political office has clashed with the Accord’s constitutionality. A series of interviews over the past two weeks given by President Granger and Prime Minister Nagamootoo suggest that a review of the Accord is underway.

 

The Cummingsburg Accord has two limbs. The first is the number of seats in parliament and ministries in government that each constituent party would be assigned. This apparently went off smoothly. The second limb provides for the more substantive core of the relationship between the parties, namely, the division of responsibility in the management of the government. The Prime Minister was expected to chair the Cabinet and be responsible for domestic affairs except national security while the President would be responsible for foreign affairs and national security.

 

Prime Minister Moses Nagamootoo has not been given the responsibilities of chairing the Cabinet or of exercising responsibility for domestic affairs. The contents of Minister Harmon’s regular engagements with the press suggest that domestic affairs reside with him and/or the President. In excusing the failure to observe the terms of the Accord, both President Granger and Prime Minister Nagamootoo indicate that there is no dispute arising from the failure to implement the Accord. They pointed to potential violation of the Constitution if the terms of the Accord are fully implemented.

 

There is and would be no violation of the Constitution if the terms of the Accord are implemented. Various articles of the Constitution allow the President to appoint others to execute his responsibilities. (See “The Cummingsburg Accord does not collide with the Constitution” by M. Maxwell in SN 24.06.15). The President can delegate the purely nominal function of chairing the Cabinet while he is present. The Prime Minister can take charge of domestic affairs in an advisory capacity to the President. The flimsy excuse of constitutional violation is an attempt at a power play by APNU. Supported by a surprisingly subservient AFC, it is not a good sign.

 

In any event, APNU and AFC are not free to amend the Accord. They are only two parties to the document. The electorate is the third party. It contains the basic terms of their post elections collaboration on the basis of which the electorate supported the coalition. The electorate understood that the AFC would have a distinct, decisive and visible management role in the affairs of governance through the Prime Minister. If the parties now wish to unilaterally tamper with this and consign the AFC, even with its unwise consent, to a vague and amorphous, consultative position, the parties should not be surprised if bitter fruits are harvested five years down the road from the same electorate, their third partner, that they have deceived. If that happens, this is where it would have all begun.

 

Having regard to the high turnout of voters, the percentage of votes obtained by the PPP/C, the votes received by the AFC in 2011 and the numbers at their meetings, there is no reason to suggest that the PNC obtained more than its usual forty one to forty two percent at the elections. The AFC therefore contributed eight to nine percent of the votes to the victory of the coalition. There could have been no coalition victory without the AFC. Five years from now there would be no coalition victory without the AFC, if the AFC loses its identity and individuality in the governance structure and operations, an individuality which it would never be able to retrieve as a political party with a distinct voice and appeal.

 

One of the major factors in the AFC sustaining its vote from 2011 was the maintenance of its independent character and campaign strategy, its promise of a fresh approach and youth empowerment. Had it been submerged under APNU, disaffected PPP and PNCR/APNU supporters would not have had the opportunity to identify with a political party other than APNU. Just as how the AFC attracted support by maintaining a clear and distinct presence and individuality in the election campaign, so it needs to maintain an independent political existence and defined authority within the coalition in order to sustain and even expand its support. The Cummingsburg Accord clearly intended to enable the AFC to do this. We do not know the reason that has caused the AFC to lose sight of these realities, or to appear so anxious to be willing to sacrifice the fundamental core of the Accord. This will prove to be its undoing and that of the coalition.

 

There is no doubt that President Granger is facing enormous pressures from within his own party. All the signs are there. But he has to lead from the front. He cannot succumb to the political culture of dominance spawned by a history of ethnic politics, which the coalition has promised to destroy by the very Accord that it now seeks to defang because it disallows the perpetuation of the culture. President Granger must inculcate in his supporters that APNU alone did not win the elections. They must understand that without the AFC there would have been no President Granger.

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Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
One of the stipulations in the Cummingsburg Accord states that the Prime Minister, Moses Nagamootoo would be responsible for chairing the weekly Cabinet meetings; however since assuming office, President Granger has been chairing the session.

 

When questioned by the media recently, both Nagamootoo and Granger had stated that the Prime Minister cannot chair Cabinet because it is against the constitution and as such, the Cummingsburg Accord is under review.

 

“Flimsy excuse” of PM not chairing Cabinet is power play attempt by APNU, June 29, 2015 6:02 am, [www.inewsguyana.com], Source

An issue which should have be abundantly clear from the initial stages when developing this agreement.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Having regard to the high turnout of voters, the percentage of votes obtained by the PPP/C, the votes received by the AFC in 2011 and the numbers at their meetings, there is no reason to suggest that the PNC obtained more than its usual forty one to forty two percent at the elections.

 

The AFC therefore contributed eight to nine percent of the votes to the victory of the coalition. There could have been no coalition victory without the AFC.

 

Five years from now there would be no coalition victory without the AFC, if the AFC loses its identity and individuality in the governance structure and operations, an individuality which it would never be able to retrieve as a political party with a distinct voice and appeal.

 

 

“Flimsy excuse” of PM not chairing Cabinet is power play attempt by APNU, June 29, 2015 6:02 am, [www.inewsguyana.com], Source

Five years from now there indeed would be no AFC in coalition with the PNC, simply because the PNC will eliminate the AFC and remain alone.

 

It will be similar to the initial years from 1964 with the PNC and The United Force merger.

FM

Why doesn't Ramkarran write about how Cheddi Jagan double crossed Civic.

 

BTW how many of the Civic in 1992 are still with the PPP today?

 

People who walk around naked look ridiculous when they complain that others wear rags.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

“Flimsy excuse” of PM not chairing Cabinet is power play attempt by APNU

June 29, 2015 6:02 am[www.inewsguyana.com], Source

 

..

Having regard to the high turnout of voters, the percentage of votes obtained by the PPP/C, the votes received by the AFC in 2011 and the numbers at their meetings, .

Let us cut the crap.

 

1.  The high turn out for the coalition came from grass roots PNC supporters.  Even Nigel Hughes concedes this.  Young grass roots blacks males who don't vote showed up to vote, and were active in the election day get out the vote apparatus.

 

2.  The large crowds at "AFC" events in Essequibo and The Corentyne were overwhelmingly black, and in fact not much different in ethnic composition FROM similar meetings in PNC strongholds.  Most of these were enthusiastic PNC supporters.

 

3.  Ramkarran knows fully well that a fair % of the Nagamoootoo voters in Berbice ran back to the PPP.  They also know that Moses was a lightening rod who was used to generate thousands of additional votes for the PPP.

 

 

 

Ramkarran needs to let us know why the PPP refused to allow Sam Hinds to continue as president!

 

IN FACT HE WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO DESCRIBE THE SPECIFIC ROLE THAT SAM HINDS PLAYED IN THE PPP REGIME!

FM
Last edited by Former Member

One might agree to many of the statements you made about the turnout of APNU supporters, and the ethnic composition of those who turned out at the coalition rallies in Essaquibo and Corentyne. Regardless of how you try to divert attention from the main question, it remains - Would Granger be president and APNU be in power if it did not join with the AFC? 

Z
Originally Posted by RiffRaff:

AFC has to stand strong

Do you mean the Party as a whole, the Executive members who decided to join the APNU in a coalition or those currently sitting in cabinet and in parliament. They are in a difficult position. They cannot withdraw from the coalition because Granger can just remove their names from the list and if the keeper of the list balks at this, he can fire him and replace him with someone more agreeable to what he wants. They can stay in the game and hopefully influence some direction and policies through the ministris they control. Even this is debatable because, the ultimate decision is Granger's. Their support base is eroding as those who voted for them and thought that they will be a counter-weight to the excesses of the PNC/APNU realize that moses has been neutere.

Z
Originally Posted by Zed:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff:

AFC has to stand strong

Do you mean the Party as a whole, the Executive members who decided to join the APNU in a coalition or those currently sitting in cabinet and in parliament. They are in a difficult position. They cannot withdraw from the coalition because Granger can just remove their names from the list and if the keeper of the list balks at this, he can fire him and replace him with someone more agreeable to what he wants.

If Granger removes only one AFC member he will be in deep trouble.

AFC will withdraw the other 11 members from the coalition and vote against APNU in parliament. In that case APNU will be in a worse position than the previous minority PPP government. No-confidence motion all over again. Nagamootoo actually said as much at the Whim rally in front of Granger. Should such a thing happen, the PPP may very well let bygones be bygones and invite back Moses, Ramjattan and other defectors to rejoin the party. Having learnt its lesson, the PPP could even offer Moses the prime ministerial slot in a snap election.

Now, what I'm saying may sound wild, but I'm seeing wildness happening already.

I hope the coalition works during this first 5-year term.

 

 

FM
My Dear Anscale Fish,

This is why I sometimes have to whack your legs even though I like you personally. WTF is wrang wid you chap? You really think the AFC's PNC Faction which organizationally dominates the AFC and has 10 MPs is gonna allow Moses to breakup the Government?

They will get together and vote to recall Moses and Prof Lutchman will be hard pressed to ignore 10 or 11 out of 12 AFC MPs. Your argument is based on wishful thinking. Moses has been neutered. He has zero power to threaten anyone with a no confidence motion. Zero!

Just listen to Caribj and anyone else with an ear to the goings on. Moses has been neutered. If he doan likes it, then he's free to resign and become a private citizen again.
FM
Originally Posted by Zed:

One might agree to many of the statements you made about the turnout of APNU supporters, and the ethnic composition of those who turned out at the coalition rallies in Essaquibo and Corentyne. Regardless of how you try to divert attention from the main question, it remains - Would Granger be president and APNU be in power if it did not join with the AFC? 

And I repeat. Would the AFC be part of a governing party were it not for APNU.

 

Where would the AFC be had they lost badly for a 3rd time?

 

.

Think of this.  What would a vengeful PRESIDENT Jagdeo be doing to AFC Indos now had the PPP won, but only after being forced to fight one if its toughest campaigns?

 

Thanks to APNU Jagdeo can do NOTHING to those who he deems to be race traitors!

 

It appears to me that some Indo AFC folks ought to be happy that young grass roots black males turned out in RECORD numbers, as Nagamootoo on his own DID NOT generate enough votes to offset the avalanche of Indo votes which Jagdeo scared up!

 

But I guess it goes against their DNA to credit blacks for ANYTHING!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Just an FYI Carib,

Jaganites are more racist than any other segment of Indos. Like they believe in Black inferiority. They're the real Indo Supremacists. So why are you surprised that the AFC Jaganites are the way they are?

Do you really believe Jalil and Sase Singh believe in some fraternal brotherhood with black people? Or just that they have found useful tools to punish Jagdeo for not sharing the loot more equitably?
FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by Zed:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff:

AFC has to stand strong

Do you mean the Party as a whole, the Executive members who decided to join the APNU in a coalition or those currently sitting in cabinet and in parliament. They are in a difficult position. They cannot withdraw from the coalition because Granger can just remove their names from the list and if the keeper of the list balks at this, he can fire him and replace him with someone more agreeable to what he wants.

If Granger removes only one AFC member he will be in deep trouble.

AFC will withdraw the other 11 members from the coalition and vote against APNU in parliament. In that case APNU will be in a worse position than the previous minority PPP government. No-confidence motion all over again. Nagamootoo actually said as much at the Whim rally in front of Granger. Should such a thing happen, the PPP may very well let bygones be bygones and invite back Moses, Ramjattan and other defectors to rejoin the party. Having learnt its lesson, the PPP could even offer Moses the prime ministerial slot in a snap election.

Now, what I'm saying may sound wild, but I'm seeing wildness happening already.

I hope the coalition works during this first 5-year term.

 

 

Oh yes I can see Hughes, Patterson, Trotman, Holder, etc essentially voting to put the PPP back into power.

 

You do know that this will end their political careers as the back lash against them, after the euphoria of ending the 23 years of Indo KKK rule will be tremendous.

 

It is not obvious  that the AFC Indo group will fare any better.

 

I am willing to bet that the core AFC leadership (those who established the AFC in 2006, Ramjattan being an exception) will NOT do ANYTHING to allow the PPP back into power.

 

Please under stand something.  Granger and these folks come from the same segment of Guyanese society.  I am sure that Trotman and Granger chat daily about AFC APNU relations.

 

Embedded within the AFC are all the factors which led to the PPP division in 1955.

 

Just don't see those G/town upper middle class blacks and mixed folks facilitating a return of the rural Indian back into power.  PPP racism precludes that!

FM

And yes if Moses rejoins the PPP, the AFC will have him removed from their list.

 

I warned folks about this BEFORE the election. I told the Moses cultists that the blacks aren't going to allow either the AFC or APNU to be taken over by AFC Indos, having endured 23 years of Indian rule.  I told them to temper their language and cease with this "Lord Moses" thing.

 

Reality is that Trotman/Hughes/Patterson do not trust Nagamootoo any more than Granger does.  ESPECIALLY for the reasons that you cite. 

 

They fully well know that there was a PPP civil war, with one faction of the PPP seeking to maintain relevance by attempting to take over the AFC.  Also reducing APNU to becoming a spectator in an AFC dominated regime, despite the fact that there would be no coalition gov't had APNU not gotten out record votes in their strongholds.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
My Dear Anscale Fish,

This is why I sometimes have to whack your legs even though I like you personally. WTF is wrang wid you chap? You really think the AFC's PNC Faction which organizationally dominates the AFC and has 10 MPs is gonna allow Moses to breakup the Government?

They will get together and vote to recall Moses and Prof Lutchman will be hard pressed to ignore 10 or 11 out of 12 AFC MPs. Your argument is based on wishful thinking. Moses has been neutered. He has zero power to threaten anyone with a no confidence motion. Zero!

Just listen to Caribj and anyone else with an ear to the goings on. Moses has been neutered. If he doan likes it, then he's free to resign and become a private citizen again.

AFC PNC faction nah gat 10 man. Leh we count again.

1. Moses

2. Ramjattan.

3. Charrandass.

Dem three enuff fo cause crisis in de House.

[NOTE TO ALL SERIOUS MEN: SHAITAAN AND GILBAKKA ARE JUST SHOOTING CRAP FO FUN. DONT TEK WE ON]

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
.

AFC PNC faction nah gat 10 man. Leh we count again.

1. Moses

2. Ramjattan.

3. Charrandass.

Dem three enuff fo cause crisis in de House.

[NOTE TO ALL SERIOUS MEN: SHAITAAN AND GILBAKKA ARE JUST SHOOTING CRAP FO FUN. DONT TEK WE ON]

Those 3 men are fully aware that the "old" AFC have flexed their muscles and will cooperate with APNU to ensure that those "PPP" gentlemen are kept under control, or removed from parliament, should their PPP instincts resurface.

 

And what will the PPP do to these gentlemen, should they regain power, having suffered the ignominy of losing a free and fair election?  That is if they regain power.

FM
Fish,

So your response is that the AFC will vote 9 to 3 to recall 3 coolie MPs?

Dude, put down your Jaganite cap and just read what Caribj is writing. He's being honest....which is probably why you won't believe him.
FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Just an FYI Carib,

Jaganites are more racist than any other segment of Indos. Like they believe in Black inferiority. .

Really.  I don't see any difference between the Jagdeoite PPP and the Jaganites who you describe.

 

NEITHER have the ability to credit blacks for anything.  BOTH view blacks as a group of mendicants who must thank Indians for every thing.

 

And the thing is that BOTH Trotman/Hughes, and Granger know this too.

 

It is a known fact that we have a PPP civil war. Whereas the PNC factions can wage their wars, and yet remain within their party, this is not true for the PPP, which remains quite feudal in nature.

 

So here was the scam.  Take over the AFC.  Scream that because the AFC were the king makers (and of course only Indos vote AFC) then blacks should be grateful to this 5% Indo vote, and should therefore cede all aspects of governance to the AFC, leaving APNU as token spectators.

 

These folks cannot help this.

 

1.  They cannot be part of any entity, unless it is Indian controlled.

 

2.  They harbor all the stereotypes of blacks as do the white supremacists.  So view blacks as good to staff the low and mid level slots, implementing policy set by them.  They will allow a few token Uncle Toms in the ranks of leadership.  Yes those like Benn who will be used to under mine blacks.  Or others who will smile, say "yes massa" and wag their tails waiting for orders.  Juan Edghill, Jennifer and Jennifer, and Elizabeth Harper, being examples.

 

Now that Jay sees that he could not recreate an Indo dominated coalition, and that Moses isn't the Lord, with all kissing his toe (I warned him of this), he screams and cries that the PPP was NICE to black people.

 

The AFC/PPP Indos are like kids whose teachers claim "should learn to play with others".  A multi ethnic society dictates this.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Fish,

So your response is that the AFC will vote 9 to 3 to recall 3 coolie MPs?

Dude, put down your Jaganite cap and just read what Caribj is writing. He's being honest....which is probably why you won't believe him.

Seriously, I think Moses will try his darnedest to safeguard his PM position in the coalition. However, if he thinks he can climb higher, he is fooling himself. In the unexpected event of President Granger's demise, Moses will succeed as president only for days. Some method will be devised to replace him with an APNU man/woman.

FM

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