ksazma posted:Was GECOM taking "three times the amount of time to count one third of the votes that Jamaica has" illegal? Now we gone straw clutching all the way to Jamaica?
If an election in Guyana is held on Tuesday we dont get the results until Friday at best. I challenge you to cite one election where this wasn't the case.
If an election is held in Jamaica on Tuesday I know the results that night and in Trinidad (a tribal society similar to Guyana) I know early next morning.
caribny posted:ksazma posted:Was GECOM taking "three times the amount of time to count one third of the votes that Jamaica has" illegal? Now we gone straw clutching all the way to Jamaica?
If an election in Guyana is held on Tuesday we dont get the results until Friday at best. I challenge you to cite one election where this wasn't the case.
If an election is held in Jamaica on Tuesday I know the results that night and in Trinidad (a tribal society similar to Guyana) I know early next morning.
Given that you always make shit up, you could be doing the same here. However, even if you are not making shit up, is taking more days than Jamaica to count ballots illegal as the current illegal squatting of the Coalition?
ksazma posted:Django posted:ksazma posted:The successful passing of a NCM requires elections to be held within 90 days.
So far the Coalition has shown no ability or willingness to abide by that requirement.
That is the only matter that is currently pertinent.
Elections is the responsibility of GECOM, not APNU,AFC, PPP or any other party.
But Patterson is taking orders from the PNC. He is not acting on his own.
After the NCM when his collaborators were saying that they can't discuss elections with the PPP until after Patterson returns, the doctors cleared Patterson to return to work but he took a few days more off because the PNC told him to. That was another delay straw clutching tactics of the PNC.
In any event, they are now illegal as they failed to abide by the constitution.
Patterson gone !!!!
ksazma posted:caribny posted:ksazma posted:Was GECOM taking "three times the amount of time to count one third of the votes that Jamaica has" illegal? Now we gone straw clutching all the way to Jamaica?
If an election in Guyana is held on Tuesday we dont get the results until Friday at best. I challenge you to cite one election where this wasn't the case.
If an election is held in Jamaica on Tuesday I know the results that night and in Trinidad (a tribal society similar to Guyana) I know early next morning.
Given that you always make shit up, you could be doing the same here. However, even if you are not making shit up, is taking more days than Jamaica to count ballots illegal as the current illegal squatting of the Coalition?
What am I making up? Google is your friend. Look at the elections of 2011 and 2015 to see how long it took before the election results were announced. In fact Ramotar even fired tear gas on some old ladies, with some infants also suffering the effects when there was a PEACEFUL march to discuss the delay of the 2011 results.
Of course black infants suffering tear gas doesnt bother you. In your mental state you probably hoped that this meant fewer evil blacks living on this planet.
ksazma posted:I think Django is pursuing a losing argument here.
Unfortunately he is hitching his wagon to a caravan about to lose its wheels.
The Coalition is on the short end of this argument regarding the decent abidance of law and order.
Perhaps , read between the lines .
Django posted:ksazma posted:I think Django is pursuing a losing argument here.
Unfortunately he is hitching his wagon to a caravan about to lose its wheels.
The Coalition is on the short end of this argument regarding the decent abidance of law and order.
Perhaps , read between the lines .
The rest of the world is sick of Guyana. I dont know why Ksazma thinks that they consider the PPP to be any better than the PNC. Guyana has sucked up more time of other Caribbean entities on its politics than has any other CARICOM nation. Its supposed to be the mature one, and yet it acts like an over grown brat.
caribny posted:ksazma posted:caribny posted:ksazma posted:Was GECOM taking "three times the amount of time to count one third of the votes that Jamaica has" illegal? Now we gone straw clutching all the way to Jamaica?
If an election in Guyana is held on Tuesday we dont get the results until Friday at best. I challenge you to cite one election where this wasn't the case.
If an election is held in Jamaica on Tuesday I know the results that night and in Trinidad (a tribal society similar to Guyana) I know early next morning.
Given that you always make shit up, you could be doing the same here. However, even if you are not making shit up, is taking more days than Jamaica to count ballots illegal as the current illegal squatting of the Coalition?
What am I making up? Google is your friend. Look at the elections of 2011 and 2015 to see how long it took before the election results were announced.
Yo playing stupid again. GECOM results takes time to announce because of the remote location of pooling booth in the Amerindian villages.
Now gawn so with yo racist self.
Dave posted:Yo playing stupid again. GECOM results takes time to announce because of the remote location of pooling booth in the Amerindian villages.
Now gawn so with yo racist self.
You may not know this but planes exist as do phones. It doesnt take 3 days to get results from the interior.
It is the COASTAL results that take time because of all of the arguments about SOPs, etc.
Django posted:Stormborn posted:The PPP has the numeric edge and also the enthusiasm edge. Indians are scared of this regime. The AFC defectors have long been disheartened and retreated back to where they sense they can fit in.
The PPP can also leech from the opposition pool because they had a long time cultivating a patronage pool who are currently irrevocably excluded from any political access. Then there are the Amerindians. They usually vote for the regime in office but this time they do not care for them because all the regime has done is disrespect them.
The reality is that in a fair and free election the PPP is winning the plurality.
The small parties have a chance to pick up at least three seats. The APNU will be in the high 20' but not breaking the margin to win.
BTW the need for elections now is because the constitution demands it. This lame duck regime cannot get much done in their state of limbo. They need a functioning parliament. Both sides need the elections
All elections was deemed Free and Fair since 1992, although there was some irregularities pointed out by the observers.
Regarding the PPP winning the plurality that will be tough, they aren't getting back into office this coming elections.
I cannot vouch for the fact there was no rigging. I am saying that in the eventuality that an election is "free and fair" the PPP has a greater chance of winning. They have the raw numbers on their side and their people vote go to the polls.
Django posted:ksazma posted:The Constitution requires GECOM be always ready for elections within 90 days. Their inability to be ready now should not be a burden on the Constitution or the Guyanese voters. They should have started the ball rolling from December 23, 2018 as
Refresh your memory !!! when the shoe is on the other foot , seems like different take.
Guyana in political crisis after suspension of parliament
Romatar used the rules to gain 6 months. The PNC used the courts and now prevaricate on when they think elections could be called. They already used up six months and to date we see no attempt to follow the rules. I do not think they will call elections before November.
Django posted:What you are doing is trying to cover up with thousands of words, regarding "The Constitution requires GECOM be always ready for elections within 90 days" was that ever done in Guyana ? can that be done ? is the CM legislation to cut Presidential Powers flawed ?
Back to the events of Ramoutar , he used Presidential Powers to prorogue parliament was that Democratic ?
It can be done. We are no vast megapolis with millions of people. We are a nation of some 200K households. The people living in the remote regions can be informed in those time of the new polls. They supposedly are going to use nine thousand canvassers!
Proroguing parliament is a well known strategy to delay elections and avoid a NCV. It was legal. He avoided the government being voting out.
caribny posted:Stormborn posted:The PPP has the numeric edge and also the enthusiasm edge. Indians are scared of this regime. The AFC defectors have long been dishe
Indians are no longer the majority. Guyana has now entered a space where who turns out to vote matters more than which tribal is the largest.
Amerindians can simply sit it out.
Also please dont underestimate the fear that the African and black identified mixed (together now about the same size as the Indian population) have of Jagdeo.
The PPPs rush to have elections is tied to "first oil". Jagdeo has even screamed that he will be the oil czar if the PPP wins. Please outline ideas promulgated by him to ensure that the oil revenues will be deployed in a manner to ensure balanced development, improved social/physical infrastructure, and most importantly ethnically balanced equity in who benefits.
He merely wants to assign who gets what and who benefits and it isnt going to be 99% of the population.
So go on and champion a PPP victory.
As a self identified group they are. They usually get a majority of the mixed votes as well. The Amerindians are the toss up and usually vote for the incumbent administration. This time they won't.
The demographics are thin but given the realty that the PNC only won by a mere handful of votes the last time and the AFC leeched away a few thousands from the PPP one cannot see them winning a plurality.
Both party want their hands on oil money so the PPP are not the sole sinners.
I do not want granger again. He is insipid, uncreatrive and uninspiring and does not seem to care of reform. I am not championing the PPP. I am doing exactly as I did when I advocated for the PNC; advocating a switch given the part in office is a let down. Maybe next time they will learn and have the guts to put democracy first.
Hopefully none of them will have the upper hand if the smaller parties take a few seats.
I am fully on board with a strong third force with enough chips to keep the two major parties in check. Until Guyana's political machinery is fixed to where it allows everyone to be equally represented and in light with the mix Guyana currently has, a third force can be very instrumental in neutralizing some of that divide. For heavens sake, let the elections begin pronto.
Stormborn posted:As a self identified group they are. They usually get a majority of the mixed votes as well.
This election is between Granger and Jagdeo. Take your pick. An insipid ageing man or a criminal! I hope you really don't think that Irfaan will be the de facto president. When last has anyone heard of this man?
The PPP does NOT get the majority of the mixed vote and TK has furnished evidence of this on many occasions. Over 80% of the mixed vote is sprinkled between the AFC and the PNC. In fact the PNC on its own might get 50% of the mixed identified votes.
Self identified Indians are now around 40% of the population, and maybe a bit more of the voters. The largest group yes but NOT the majority.
caribny posted:Stormborn posted:As a self identified group they are. They usually get a majority of the mixed votes as well.
This election is between Granger and Jagdeo. Take your pick. An insipid ageing man or a criminal! I hope you really don't think that Irfaan will be the de facto president. When last has anyone heard of this man?
The PPP does NOT get the majority of the mixed vote and TK has furnished evidence of this on many occasions. Over 80% of the mixed vote is sprinkled between the AFC and the PNC. In fact the PNC on its own might get 50% of the mixed identified votes.
Self identified Indians are now around 40% of the population, and maybe a bit more of the voters. The largest group yes but NOT the majority.
I do not have to fall for the prisoners dilemma. I already said I advocate for any other third party to be the sword of Damocles over the heads of both. And Granger is no innocent person given his portioning out our state lands to his people. Further he has done not one damn thing to mediate our ethnic strife but participated in the deepening of it with much of his decisions. The PPP has as much chance if not a greater chance than the APNU which is behind the eight ball from the jump. the competition is for eleven percent of the electorate. Split that between Amerindians and Mixed and the hill is not an arduous hike. My hope is some 30 k votes is leeched away weakening both
Stormborn posted:
I do not have to fall for the prisoners dilemma. I already said I advocate for any other third party to be the sword of Damocles over the heads of both. And Granger is no innocent person given his portioning out our state lands to his people. Further he has done not one damn thing to mediate our ethnic strife but participated in the deepening of it with much of his decisions. The PPP has as much chance if not a greater chance than the APNU which is behind the eight ball from the jump. the competition is for eleven percent of the electorate. Split that between Amerindians and Mixed and the hill is not an arduous hike. My hope is some 30 k votes is leeched away weakening both
The reality even as you live in a fantasy world is that the choice is Jagdeo or Granger. At this point there will be no 3rd party. That NCV stunt has polarized Guyana in a way that it hasn't been since the early 60s, based on many reports that I hear.
The specter of Indians collaborating with each other to bring down a gov't which was voted in by most blacks has merely underscored a belief that Indians are clannish and cannot be trusted.
And you really need to stop this nonsense that a "mixed" vote exists. It doesnt. Most mixed identified people are part black and share all of the ethnic insecurities about Indians that blacks do.
Guyana is now a 40:40 tribal nation. 20% of the country is non tribalist, Amerindians and some urban middle class black/mixed identified and Indians. The winner will be the faction which captures the non tribalist vote and gets its tribalists to show up.
The failure of the AFC to be a "3rd force" has totally undermined the self confidence that a "non tribal" party can be a viable winner, or can even gain enough clout to restrain the two tribal parties.
When last have we heard of ANUG and that Amerindian party. One would think that they would be loud and vocal in using the current PPP/PNC miasmic to attempt to woo Guyanese tired of this 60 year civil war. But nothing from them because indeed they are nothing. A few old heads with no base of support.
caribny posted:Stormborn posted:
I do not have to fall for the prisoners dilemma. I already said I advocate for any other third party to be the sword of Damocles over the heads of both. And Granger is no innocent person given his portioning out our state lands to his people. Further he has done not one damn thing to mediate our ethnic strife but participated in the deepening of it with much of his decisions. The PPP has as much chance if not a greater chance than the APNU which is behind the eight ball from the jump. the competition is for eleven percent of the electorate. Split that between Amerindians and Mixed and the hill is not an arduous hike. My hope is some 30 k votes is leeched away weakening both
The reality even as you live in a fantasy world is that the choice is Jagdeo or Granger. At this point there will be no 3rd party. That NCV stunt has polarized Guyana in a way that it hasn't been since the early 60s, based on many reports that I hear.
The specter of Indians collaborating with each other to bring down a gov't which was voted in by most blacks has merely underscored a belief that Indians are clannish and cannot be trusted.
And you really need to stop this nonsense that a "mixed" vote exists. It doesnt. Most mixed identified people are part black and share all of the ethnic insecurities about Indians that blacks do.
Guyana is now a 40:40 tribal nation. 20% of the country is non tribalist, Amerindians and some urban middle class black/mixed identified and Indians. The winner will be the faction which captures the non tribalist vote and gets its tribalists to show up.
Where did I have those two as my choice? It is your fantasy that Granger can deliver. All he has done to this point is to re engineer our ministerial system to water down lines of authority an so he alone has control. Add to that he did as the PPP did and filled all of the important roles down to second tier management in t he hands of Africans. He is as big a racist as Jagdeo is accused of being and it is only a matter of time given his prodigious attempt to parcel out state lands to his cronies that he can achieve to the same level of kleptocracy.
Your 40:40 ratio to begin with is farcical. Africans have not increased by 10 percent since the last elections and guessing 10 percent of the self identified mix will gravitate to the APNU is not even educated guess work. As I noted earlier. The PPP has to woe 11 percent to their side. The PNC has the uphill climb of twice that to hold the government. And this is on the ideal circumstances of everyone voting. A higher percentage of APNU supporters always stay home. If the small parties leech they will be from the urban youth and Amerindians and both decreases the APNU's chances.
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