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FM
Former Member

Dual citizenship MPs set to  continue violation of Article 155

 

With questions again being asked about parliamentarians who hold foreign allegiance, representative of the APNU+AFC list, Professor Harold Lutchman says that he has no authority to take any action as it relates to alliance parliamentarians with dual citizenship.

“That is for the authorities including the president to take action,” Lutchman told Stabroek News when contacted yesterday. “I don’t have that sort of constitutional authority,” he said while adding that he does not know which of the incoming Members of Parliament on the alliance’s list have dual citizenship. The PPP/C has indicated that it has not yet decided on whether its representatives will be sworn in as Members of Parliament.

Article 155 of the Constitution disqualifies persons with dual citizenship from being a Member of Parliament. According to 1) (a) of Article 155 “No person shall be qualified for election as a member of the National Assembly who is, by virtue of his or her own act, under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience or adherence to a foreign power or state.”

AFC leader and now Minister of Public Security Khemraj Ramjattan had previously acknowledged that those who hold seats in Parliament and have foreign passports are in breach of the Constitution, but said that he believed that the law should be amended to accommodate them. Former MPs Dr Leslie Ramsammy, Gail Teixeira and Dr Rupert Roopnaraine, are all believed to hold dual citizenship.

Then Leader of the Opposition and APNU and now President David Granger had told Stabroek News in 2012 that the coalition had not discussed the issue but this would be happening. He had said that from the time that law was written, the situation has changed. “The Diaspora is so large and important [to Guyana]. We should not continue to have such a dichotomy situation,” he had. “I am not saying here that the law must be changed. I am saying that we should hear what the people need and establish the laws they want,” Granger added.

A number of persons over the years have pointed out that the Constitution is being breached in this regard and said that the politicians need to ensure that they obey the law.

 

Violation

 

C R Bernard on Sunday wrote to Lutchman and Representative of the PPP/C list Donald Ramotar and requested that persons who have allegiance to another state to not be allowed to become parliamentarians as this would be a violation of the Constitution.

“The issue is a matter of national importance, but all calls for addressing it have so far been largely ignored by political parties. The change in government and a new parliament present a significant opportunity to correct the error. If the political parties do not take appropriate actions, it is needful for the Guyanese people to take any further action against our political leaders by protesting the swearing in of anyone known to be voluntarily hold foreign allegiance. If public protest fails then we must take to the courts as was done in Jamaica,” he observed.

In his letter to Lutchman and Ramotar, Bernard said that their taking action to avoid the violation of the Constitution will also avoid legal action being taken against members of their parties as was done in Jamaica.

When contacted, Lutchman said that he did not make any specific enquiry as to whether any of the incoming APNU+AFC parliamentarians has dual citizenship. He also noted that there is a precedent with several MPs in the last parliament having dual citizenship. “It is for the authorities to take action on the matter,” he said while adding that the leaders of the party are the best persons to address the questions to. “All that I did was to sign off on the list agreed to by both parties,” the law professor said.

He added that persons with objections should raise it or take it to the court and he does not have specific information on everyone on the list. Lutchman was reluctant to offer an interpretation of Article 155 and noted that there is a precedent for MPs with dual nationality. “I am merely carrying out the will of the parties,” he said while adding that on that issue “I didn’t see that as part of my function.” He said that it was a good question to pursue.

In his letter to the two list representatives, Bernard said that it is his hope that his appeal “will avert the repetition of an egregious violation of the constitution of the Republic of Guyana” in the swearing in of the 11th parliament.

 

Multiple persons

 

“It is now common knowledge that there were multiple persons sitting in the 10th Parliament who were disqualified from holding such office on the grounds of Article 155 of the constitution. This article specifically disqualifies from election to the National Assembly, anyone who ‘is by virtue of his own act, under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience or adherence to a foreign power or state’”, he asserted.

He said that Article 155 is set on firm principles which take into account that a person should not sit to make laws for one state which they are not bound to abide by because they can escape to the protection of another state. He also pointed out that there arises a conflict of interest that threatens the sovereignty of the nation when a person with allegiance to another nation sits to make decision relating to both countries.

“No party sitting in the 10th Parliament has denied knowledge of the violation of Article 155 of the constitution. But no party or individual member moved to have the matter corrected. Consequently, it could be said that all members of the 10th Parliament colluded to egregiously violate the highest law of the land,” Bernard declared.

The matter has been raised a number of times before but the parties did not take any action.

In April, Rafiq T Khan in a letter to Stabroek News observed that the list of candidates submitted to the Chief Election Officer by the contestants, supported by statutory declarations by each member of the lists stating that they are aware of the provisions of Article 155 of the constitution, are replete with persons who hold citizenship in other countries. He had said that he would not vote as a result.

“I refuse to be an accomplice to or complicit in the perpetuation of what I regard as a constitutional illegality in this country. Some of your letter writers have already alluded to it, but it does not seem to have gained the traction that it deserves. The reason, I believe, is that all political players, to use the words of Martin Carter, “are consumed” by it,” he declared.

“With respect to the issue of dual citizenship the framers of the Guyana Constitution by making Article 53 subject to Article 155, put the issue beyond all doubt. Persons holding dual citizenship are disqualified from being members of the National Assembly,” he asserted. He noted that when similar cases were taken to court in Jamaica and Trinidad, those involved relinquished their foreign citizenship.

Khan also pointed to the issue of the statutory declarations made by the members of the lists in which they each declare that they are aware of Article 155 of the constitution. “Under Section 4 of the Statutory Declarations Act Cap 5:09, it is an offence punishable by imprisonment for a period of one year to make in a statutory declaration a statement false in fact,” he pointed out.

“For too long many of our laws have been honoured in the breach. It is particularly egregious when persons who, smugly holding aloft in their faith, are going to swear to uphold the Constitution and the laws of Guyana, are themselves in blatant breach of the constitution. That is hypocrisy,” he said.

Prior to the 2011 elections, attorney Christopher Ram had also raised the issue and in a letter to then Chief Election Officer Gocool Boodoo, he had reminded the official that it is his duty to ensure that the elections are held in accordance with all laws. “It is my view that there is a serious obligation on your part to verify that the eligibility requirements are satisfied. You should be aware too that while there might have been breaches in the past, this cannot justify a continuation of an unconstitutional violation in such an important matter,” he had said.

Ram had observed that this is more than an academic matter. “The constitutional provisions are intended to ensure that our legislators are loyal to Guyana and Guyana alone. A similar situation arose in Jamaica recently where politician Mr Daryl Vaz gave up his naturalized US citizenship in order to continue in Jamaican politics. That those who seek to make laws for the citizens of any country must be willing to submit themselves to those very laws at all times is almost superfluous to state,” he asserted.

“The permissiveness that characterised previous parliaments has led us into the present state of non-governance and lawlessness. We must not allow the same mistakes again. The time to start holding our next batch of parliamentary representatives to account begins now,” he said at the time.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Our unique circumstance of having such an incredibly large diaspora necessitate a dual citizenship accommodation.

Otherwise the pool of potential MPs will consist only of the local Mudheads.
FM
Perhaps MPs should have to give it up post-election. But it's not really effective because they'll simply have their wives and/or kids retain foreign citizenship so they can be re-naturalized if/when necessary.
FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Our unique circumstance of having such an incredibly large diaspora necessitate a dual citizenship accommodation.

Otherwise the pool of potential MPs will consist only of the local Mudheads.

Are you implying that we need to have the foreign residing musheads represented in parliament?

Z
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Our unique circumstance of having such an incredibly large diaspora necessitate a dual citizenship accommodation.

Otherwise the pool of potential MPs will consist only of the local Mudheads.

Are you implying that we need to have the foreign residing mudheads represented in parliament? The constitution is clear and must be followed. If they love Guyana so much and want to help Guyanese and Guyana, then let them renounce their citizenship in other countries. Christopher Ram did the correct thing. 

Z

No. The Govt needs to change the law to accommodate the Diaspora's needs.

 

Taking US citizenship does not mean anyone hates Guyana or wants to have nothing to do with Guyana. It has to do with getting govt jobs, benefits, ability to sponsor family members, pensions, social security, voting, not being deported easily, federal jobs, etc. It's an administrative compliance action.

 

Being a country with high immigration, the country needs to understand that.

Does giving up US citizenship make anyone a better worker or better Guyanese? Won't we wallow in our mess without foreign input?

 

Stop the jealousy and make the Guyana laws work for us to serve our country.  You just can't love the Merican money.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Our unique circumstance of having such an incredibly large diaspora necessitate a dual citizenship accommodation.

Otherwise the pool of potential MPs will consist only of the local Mudheads.

They think gold, diamonds and oil are the main resources. They forget people are their main resource and 800K live outside Guyana.

FM
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

No. The Govt needs to change the law to accommodate the Diaspora's needs.

 

Taking US citizenship does not mean anyone hates Guyana or wants to have nothing to do with Guyana. It has to do with getting govt jobs, benefits, ability to sponsor family members, pensions, social security, voting, not being deported easily, federal jobs, etc. It's an administrative compliance action.

 

Being a country with high immigration, the country needs to understand that.

Does giving up US citizenship make anyone a better worker or better Guyanese? Won't we wallow in our mess without foreign input?

 

Stop the jealousy and make the Guyana laws work for us to serve our country.  You just can't love the Merican money.

Very good way to put it.

FM

Zed said:

If they love Guyana so much and want to help Guyanese and Guyana, then let them renounce their citizenship in other countries.

 

That's a backward statement because there are many Diasporans who read all the Guyana papers every day and know more about what's happening than the local people.

 

There bodies are in the US out of economic necessity but their hearts and souls are in Guyana.  The law cannot capture that. I say change the law. Make it easy for Guyanese abroad to be involved and participate.

FM
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by VVP:

So wha yaall foreigners think?

hey vvp, this dual citizenship thing work for me...i still stand a chance

How do you stand a chance?  You are NOT a dual citizen   Crap bro you are in the minority

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

So what happens if A Guyanese born enters Guyana with a US passport?  Is he/she considered a foreigner?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
The state of law produced this result:

All Guyanese by birth or descent are Guyanese citizens under the laws of Guyana and the U.S. until they renounce Guyanese citizenship before a Guyanese consular official in the prescribed manner or are deprived of Guyanese citizenship by order of the President. Using a Guyanese or American passport does not negate this. In other words, all of you are Guyanese citizens and so are your foreign born kids.
FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
The state of law produced this result:

All Guyanese by birth or descent are Guyanese citizens under the laws of Guyana and the U.S. until they renounce Guyanese citizenship before a Guyanese consular official in the prescribed manner or are deprived of Guyanese citizenship by order of the President. Using a Guyanese or American passport does not negate this. In other words, all of you are Guyanese citizens and so are your foreign born kids.

This is general law?  Is this specified in a document?

FM

I read/heard some place that there are only few countries the USA recognizes for dual citizenship.  Israel is one.  Shaitaan you make it sound like it applies to all countries.  So was I misinformed?

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Laws of the U.S and Guyana and State Dept. policy.

You have to read the laws of the countries and their respective dual citizenship policies together.

So Guyana officially has dual citizenship relationship with the USA?

FM
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

So what happens if A Guyanese born enters Guyana with a US passport?  

Is he/she considered a foreigner?

Correct.

FM
Officially Guyanese/USA dual citizenship is tolerated on both sides even though it collides with Guyana's Constitution and laws.

Guyana does not interfere as a matter of policy with naturalized U.S. Citizens of Guyanese birth or descent even though strictly speaking Guyana can. Practically this just means something for U.S citizens in Guyana who are Guyanese citizens. But Guyana has never interfered with their claims on U.S consular assistance even though technically it can under American policy.
FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

So what happens if A Guyanese born enters Guyana with a US passport?  

Is he/she considered a foreigner?

Correct.

DG read the link Shaitaan provided.  I don't think a Guyanese born could ever be treated as a foreigner in Guyana unless he/she officially renounced citizenship.

FM
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

So what happens if A Guyanese born enters Guyana with a US passport?  

Is he/she considered a foreigner?

Correct.

DG read the link Shaitaan provided.  I don't think a Guyanese born could ever be treated as a foreigner in Guyana unless he/she officially renounced citizenship.

Again, depends on the passport the person use to enter the country.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Officially Guyanese/USA dual citizenship is tolerated on both sides even though it collides with Guyana's Constitution and laws.

Guyana does not interfere as a matter of policy with naturalized U.S. Citizens of Guyanese birth or descent even though strictly speaking Guyana can. Practically this just means something for U.S citizens in Guyana who are Guyanese citizens. But Guyana has never interfered with their claims on U.S consular assistance even though technically it can under American policy.

What the bold mean?

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

So what happens if A Guyanese born enters Guyana with a US passport?  

Is he/she considered a foreigner?

Correct.

DG read the link Shaitaan provided.  I don't think a Guyanese born could ever be treated as a foreigner in Guyana unless he/she officially renounced citizenship.

Again, depends on the passport the person use to enter the country.

Okay.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Again DG,

You're talking to someone here who used to do this for a living as the military liaison for the State Dept and USCIS for a Brigade among my other hats.

Immaterial, as the information is strictly related to special military issues.

FM
Coolie ppl have this nasty habit of always arguing against people who have some subject matter expertise. They know more than the subject matter expert who earns his day bread in said area.
FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Individuals can indeed have dual or multiple citizenship.

 

However there are clear distinctions and opportunities when travelling to country where the person has dual citizenship.

 

Example --

 

If the person is a resident of a country and is visiting another country where s/he dual citizenship, the passport by which the person enters the country takes precedent on actions that can develop when the person is in the said country.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of another country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules governing the other country and hence the person is considered as a foreigner.

 

If the person enters the country with the passport of said country, all protocol and attention is reserved to the rules the said country and hence the person is considered as a local resident.

So what happens if A Guyanese born enters Guyana with a US passport?  

Is he/she considered a foreigner?

Correct.

DG read the link Shaitaan provided.  I don't think a Guyanese born could ever be treated as a foreigner in Guyana unless he/she officially renounced citizenship.

Again, depends on the passport the person use to enter the country.

DG, when I enter Guyana with a US passport I don't have to get a visa that means I am not treated as a "foreigner."  A true foreigner has to get a visa.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
That is the bottom line VVP. And you and enter and depart Guyana and any other country wid am. Except America of course where you must use the American passport.

Yes, that's what I saw in that link about entering and leaving USA.  I understand that it very cheap to visit Suriname from Guyana is you have a Guyanese passport.  It is very expensive if you have a US passport.  I might seriously look into getting a Guyana passport.

FM
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Again, depends on the passport the person use to enter the country.

DG, when I enter Guyana with a US passport I don't have to get a visa that means I am not treated as a "foreigner."  A true foreigner has to get a visa.

Based on the agreements between countries.

 

In the specific situation you have cited, by having a US passport you will not need a visa to enter Guyana because of the agreements between the two countries. However, by entering with a US passport, you are considered a citizen of the US --  hence a foreigner.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Again, depends on the passport the person use to enter the country.

DG, when I enter Guyana with a US passport I don't have to get a visa that means I am not treated as a "foreigner."  A true foreigner has to get a visa.

Based on the agreements between countries.

 

In the specific situation you have cited, by having a US passport you will not need a visa to enter Guyana because of the agreements between the two countries. However, by entering with a US passport, you are considered a citizen of the US --  hence a foreigner.

Arite I think I would prefer to be a "foreigner" so I can get access to the US Embassy if I need to in case Venezuela tek over when I am there 

FM

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