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FM
Former Member

Where are the Indian-Guyanese intellectuals?

October 29, 2015 | By | Filed Under Letters 

Dear Editor,
A letter writer raised a question in reference to the recent controversy regarding Diwali celebrations in Guyana by asking “Where are the Indian intellectuals?” In short, why are Indians not speaking out through a consensus voice and addressing issues germane to their physical existence?

 

The deafening silence has led to two possible conclusions. One, there are few Indian intellectuals in Guyana who are capable of articulating a position on behalf of Indians. Two, Indian intellectuals are afraid to speak out because of the perception that they may be branded as “racists”. They will be accused of not being a “true Guyanese”.


There is no question that an intellectual tradition is firmly grounded in the African community. This has been established over the years, largely complemented by many years of oppression and discrimination, and a historical experience that has created shared values and common positions around national issues, be it racism against Africans, reparations, etc. Swami Aksharananda reminded us that within the African community (specifically, the PNC and WPA) “a significant number of African intellectuals, scholars, and activists …are quite vociferous when it comes to ethnic honor, and for whom the furtherance and defense of African Guyanese interests, is an important plank in their political and public life.” He suggested that “this group of individuals seeks to connect ethnic interests with national interests” and that there is an “asymmetry in this position when it comes to Indians”. His conclusion was that the Indian ethnic interest “has been presented as diametrically opposed to national interest.”


Judging by the letter writers, social blogs and social media platforms, there are some common trends that are identifiable when it comes to the way Indians are perceived in Guyana and the Caribbean. One, they are viewed as a backward, unsophisticated lot, a perception often linked to their Asian, rather than western outlook. Two, the language used to describe Indians suggest that they are “interlopers”, “temporary migrants”, or as Eric Williams of Trinidad referred to them as “a recalcitrant minority”.


In sum, Indians are seen as non-patriotic and as anti-nationalist as they come. As a result, Indians who publicly advocate for their community or group interests are viewed as “parochial” because they cling to their primordial sentiments. If readers think these claims are not grounded in reality, one simply has to peruse the unfettered blogs where Guyanese, hiding behind anonymity, tell each other how they really feel. By no means am I claiming that Indians are saints in this regard, but, unfortunately, the vitriol is reflected on both sides.


If an intellectual tradition exists within the Guyanese Indian community, it is difficult to identify the protagonists. Had there been an intellectual tradition in Guyana, the current perceptions regarding Indians may not have gone unchallenged. One is hard-pressed to produce evidence that the PPP and its leadership has elevated the status of Indians, its largest voting bloc, to the next plateau because that party is guilty of squelching any semblance of intellectualism within its core, a tradition that dates back to the early days of Cheddi Jagan. Moreover, beyond his Marxism, Jagan saw himself as the person on a mission to bring the races together. He was assured of Indian support, so little attention was given to the particular problems of Indians. He did not care to raise them, while working assiduously to delegitimize any Indian leader or organization that expressed a desire to engage in meaningful dialogue about race relations in Guyana.


Ironically, Swami Aksharananda’s statements received vociferous castigations, not from Africans, many of whom would probably agree with his assessment, but from a lone Indian, Freddie Kissoon, supposedly a “Renaissance Guyanese” who declared the messenger as an “Indian triumphalist”.


The clear lack of an intellectual tradition creates a number of challenges for the Indian. His concerns are not seen as legitimate, his causes are not worth struggling for, his rights need not be protected, he has no business being in politics, and he should not make any claims to the national patrimony. It is much worse for Amerindians, who were here long before Africans and Indians were brought to this country when the colonial possession was still a swampland. Their voices are drowned by a national culture that does not legitimately embrace the Indian culture as part of the national fabric of dear Guyana.


Baytoram Ramharack

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Ramharaks frustrations stems from the fact that he has a false narrative about who is the indian and what are their cultural prerogatives.

 

He sees a homogeneous entity with a unitary path and a singular purpose ( conserving "Indian" identity) but miss the fact the Indian are themselves a plural culture with internal identities separate and apart and each competing for political space.

 

He also fails to acknowledge that the core group of Hindus are not particularly receptive to Hindutva and cannot be regimented into a Guyanese RSS militancy by supposed articulation of sacred traditions.

 

They know that whatever is sacred to them is what they forged in Guyana. The Bharat Mata they left was not a salutary cradle to their emergence as humans but was a brutal step mother touting  Brahmanism ass sacred  creed and the laws of Manu the whip and the source of the deep wounds on  on their soul making sure they remain as dirt.

 

Amerindians have no kinship in struggle or in identity or in culture to Indians. Amerindians receive the similar level if not more of contempt from Indians as any. Their position at the bottom rung of the Guyanese social ladder is not on account of being in alliance with one or the other dominant groups. They are there because of a complete failure of other groups to recognize their natural patrimony and that they have cultural relevance.

 

I also do not see black people seeking Afrocentric militancy as their dominant position to sue for political recognition. The monochromatic view he has of our political reality is seeded in the manner and mode of his own emergence as a "hindu activist". It is artificial and as fictive as his view of what ails us.

FM

1.  Creole Guyanese (African, mixed and Portuguese) do not define their ethnic identity outside of a "Guyanese" context.  They also see themselves as part of a Caribbean creole culture, with all the multi cultural aspects that this embraces.

 

2.  Creole culture is celebrated by them as it is a creation of the many peoples who live in the Caribbean and/or who embrace a primarily Caribbean identity.  It is not regarded as a singular culture, but as a composite of Africa, Europe, Asia, and the indigenous cultures of the Americas.  Do not tell a Jamaican that curry goat isnt Jamaican.

 

3. Indocentrics like this man reject creole cultural as being mongrelized and degenerate.  They do NOT embrace a multicultural vision of Guyana, where there are numerous pathways for the various ethnicities to embrace each other, to identify with one another, and to even absorb aspects of each culture as it suits their needs.   

 

Locating themselves out of this cultural continuum, they then wail when they are seen as interlopers, clannish, racist, unpatriotic, and not to be trusted. 

 

4.  There are also foolish as an Indo Carib creole culture does exist. Indo Caribbean people are easily recognized as being a Caribbean peoples as their almost 200 years existence in the Caribbean means that they have contributed to what being Caribbean is about, and similarly have absorbed cultures, styles and values from the other drivers of Caribbean identity.

 

Indocentrics like this man scream that those Indo Carib people who recognize this fact are "self hating", "love blackman", or are participating in "Indian genocide". India of 2015 isnt the India of 1838, so why do these folks wish to pretend that Indo Caribbean people have remain untransformed even after almost 170 years away from India?

 

 

THIS is the reason why people like him are seen as racist.

 

1. They locate their Indian identity OUTSIDE of a national construct.

 

2. They locate their Indian identity as superior to that of the more creolised groups, with myths of hard work, etc., even as Indians are the POOREST group of indentures, and maybe not much better off than are the much abused, and stigmatized descendants of slaves.

 

3. Whereas as the African intellectual talked much about African abuse of non Africans, as they spoke of the abuse of Africans by non African groups, the Indian "intellectuals" instead construct a myth of the weak and much abused Indian, and refuse to engage in conversations about the role that Indians THEMSELVES have played constructing this ethnic tension that exists in Trinidad, Suriname and ESPECIALLY Guyana.

 

We are still waiting for the Indian intellectual who can speak about the full gamut of the role of the Indian in our ethnic tensions as Africans like Eusi, Andaiye, David Hinds, and Walter Rodney have done for the Afro Guyanese. ALL of them condemned African racism, even as all of them also condemned the racism directed towards Africans.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

 

I also do not see black people seeking Afrocentric militancy as their dominant position to sue for political recognition. The monochromatic view he has of our political reality is seeded in the manner and mode of his own emergence as a "hindu activist". It is artificial and as fictive as his view of what ails us.


The mere fact that Guyanese of African descent cannot even agree as to what they should be called, or in fact who is African/Black/Negro/Afro, indicates a very weak and varied ethnic identity.

 

I will argue that what ever Afro centered identity which exists among blacks in Guyana, is in reaction to perceived threats from what they see asa highly mobilized and powerful ethnic group whose main intent is to push them into the Atlantic Ocean.

 

Evidence of this is that in islands like Grenada, St V and Jamaica there is almost no tension between the descendants of slaves and of indentures.  In fact tensions are higher between self identified blacks and self identified people of mixed ancestry, due to the colonial legacy of the skin color heirarchies.

FM

Any way this topic will be ignored, even as some posters here continue with their Indo KKK hehavior. 

 

Others who claim not to share this belief will shy away like a cockroach when the light is suddenly turned on.

 

So there will not be any intelligent discussion of this issue. It isnt that Indian intellectuals do not exist.  It is that proper discussion isnt allowed by the Indo KKK hindutva element, who will condemn those who do not share their world view as being "self hating Indians" or neemakarams.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:

Any way this topic will be ignored, even as some posters here continue with their Indo KKK hehavior. 

 

Others who claim not to share this belief will shy away like a cockroach when the light is suddenly turned on.

 

So there will not be any intelligent discussion of this issue. It isnt that Indian intellectuals do not exist.  It is that proper discussion isnt allowed by the Indo KKK hindutva element, who will condemn those who do not share their world view as being "self hating Indians" or neemakarams.

I can speculate why these topics about the nature of group formation, identity and ethnicity are a bust here. Most people just do not care. Ramharak and Ravi are on their own. They only have dunces like Ugli, Cobra and Basedrum in their cheering section. Plus they do not have the necessary cultural vocabulary to know what he is talking about

FM
Last edited by Former Member

The reason why they avoid discussion of the topic is that their entire moral validation, and that includes the socalled moderates like VVP, Kari, VishMahabir, is based on the mythology of the "innocent Indian abused by the savage black".

 

If there is the type of discussion that Eusi, David Hinds, Andaiye and Walter Rodney engaged in, then Indians will be reduced to being no better than Africans. Equally culpable for the ethnic morass and the political dead zone which has been the result of this.

 

Much easier to use code language to blame blacks.

FM

Ravi DeV enters the game.....

 

Challenges facing Indian Guyanese community cannot be disjunctured from those facing other groups

 
 

Dear Editor,

I must say that I am very flattered that Mr Abu Bakr was prompted to complain that “..a decade ago, I asked Dev to list ten things Indians lack in terms of egalitarian legislation or rights of practice… the response was a dead silence.” (`What is the definition of the Indian they wish to protect and preserve?’ SN 10/29/15)

 

A “decade ago” (2005) I was an MP willing to slog away for a paltry $38,000/monthly, so obviously was not “quality” enough to keep up with my constituency duties. I apologise to my West Coast landsman. (Vreed en Hoop?) but plead other pressing business. What were those in 2005? Thank goodness for Dropbox!

 

ROAR was still reeling from its participation in the “Rule of Law” march and my speech at the Square of the Revolution calling for an Inquiry into Minister Gajraj’s involvement in “Death Squads” killings. We took a beating again, when the Minister resigned in 2005.

 

We started the year, (Jan 7th) with a call for a “Centre Force”: “ROAR believes it is time for a “Centre Force” to be created and nurtured. What is

this Centre Force? For one, it’s not a “Third Force” that feels it can wish away the PPP and PNC. It’s a Force that should seek to occupy the political, social, and cultural ground between the PPP and PNC – hence “Centre”. Today in Guyana, there are a number of political parties outside the ambit of the PPP and the PNC – ROAR, GAP, WPA, JFAP, etc. that can begin the process of creating this Centre Force. These could be joined to the parties now in formation by other committed Guyanese.”

 

Dear Abu, you would not believe how time consuming were the talks by the above mentioned parties and the newly formed one calling themselves the Alliance for Change (AFC). ROAR ended up coalescing with the Guyana Action Party (GAP) with Paul Hardy as leader.

 

Then there were, of course, those pesky floods that gave us a new word, “lepto”.

 

In the middle of the year, we also threw ourselves into assisting the committee organising the 25th Anniversary Commemoration of Dr Walter Rodney’s assassination. I worked in the event in my home village of Uitvlugt, while our Essequibo ROAR group did the honours over there. I called for a movement to organise along the lines suggested by Dr Rodney in 1970. I wrote “I think that within our community of Guyana, different ethnic groups need to assert their identity, need to put themselves together, to pull themselves together, and when they have and when they can operate on the basis of mutual respect, which they are not now doing, now, then I think the way will be clear for building a new society, a society of a mixed unit through Socialism. But, first, the various groups must be built up, made conscious of their own potential, their own dignity, their own power, as Guyanese.”

 

Re political leadership, I cautioned, “These racist structures are deeply inscribed in most of the ideas and practices of the world view that surrounds us – and while they affect most non-white peoples negatively – they are most extreme to African peoples.

 

The descendants of African slaves especially, and Africans generally – should be very wary about those who would still blithely treat “race” as just another stratification or segregation. We continue to be amazed by African leaders who, in their rush to be under the “one-love-banner” imposed by the dominant paradigm, refuse to accept that the African condition is qualitatively different from that of other groups in the society and demands different programs.”

 

I could go on, Abu, but the point I want to make is that we never considered the challenges facing the Indian Guyanese community could be disjunctured from the challenges facing the other groups – especially African Guyanese. I really don’t remember your question being posed, but maybe it wasn’t answered because some try to imply that when Indian Guyanese discuss their challenges they are not concerned about the entire society.

 

Each of our “dilemmas” are intertwined.

Yours faithfully,
Ravi Dev

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

Where are the Indian-Guyanese intellectuals?

October 29, 2015 | By | Filed Under Letters 

Dear Editor,
A letter writer raised a question in reference to the recent controversy regarding Diwali celebrations in Guyana by asking “Where are the Indian intellectuals?” In short, why are Indians not speaking out through a consensus voice and addressing issues germane to their physical existence?

 

The deafening silence has led to two possible conclusions. One, there are few Indian intellectuals in Guyana who are capable of articulating a position on behalf of Indians. Two, Indian intellectuals are afraid to speak out because of the perception that they may be branded as “racists”. They will be accused of not being a “true Guyanese” . . .


Baytoram Ramharack

this banna would have us believe that the Diwali imbroglio represents a retreat by "Indian" intellectuals from issues "germane to their "physical existence"

 

pandit daughta losing out in a political power play is now, for Indo-Guyanese, EXISTENTIAL! . . . [on so many freakin levels] huh?

 

this is the wet shit not-so-sly demagogues like Bayto Ramharack end up squeezing when they overreach . . . crawling around, sniffing out any platform (no matter how flimsy) to vend their ignoble political wares

 

itinerant 'intellectual' scampman . . . thoroughly engaged in authorship of installment ethnic poison being brewed up for Guyana in the bowels of barat's tiefman Sanata complex

 

disgusting and stink

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

Where are the Indian-Guyanese intellectuals?

October 29, 2015 | By | Filed Under Letters 

Dear Editor,
A letter writer raised a question in reference to the recent controversy regarding Diwali celebrations in Guyana by asking “Where are the Indian intellectuals?” In short, why are Indians not speaking out through a consensus voice and addressing issues germane to their physical existence?

 

The deafening silence has led to two possible conclusions. One, there are few Indian intellectuals in Guyana who are capable of articulating a position on behalf of Indians. Two, Indian intellectuals are afraid to speak out because of the perception that they may be branded as “racists”. They will be accused of not being a “true Guyanese” . . .


Baytoram Ramharack

this banna would have us believe that the Diwali imbroglio represents a retreat by "Indian" intellectuals from issues "germane to their "physical existence"

 

pandit daughta losing out in a political power play is now, for Indo-Guyanese, EXISTENTIAL! . . . [on so many freakin levels] huh?

 

this is the wet shit not-so-sly demagogues like Bayto Ramharack end up squeezing when they overreach . . . crawling around, sniffing out any platform (no matter how flimsy) to vend their ignoble political wares

 

itinerant 'intellectual' scampman . . . thoroughly engaged in authorship of installment ethnic poison being brewed up for Guyana in the bowels of barat's tiefman Sanata complex

 

disgusting and stink

Is it any wonder Guyana has sooo many problems. Just reading all the tripe in response to Batoram's comments. The man is correct in his comments. He did not blame anyone, just a general commentary he made.

 

Every ethnic group in Guyana is completely lost, it is evident in their quality of living. Just a few elites who controls the thought processes of their ethnic groups. 

 

The idea of the melting pot is not achievable. For that to happen, their must be trust. Just reading the shyte on here against Indianess is unbelievable.

 

Prejudices against Indoes even by Guyanese Indians. 

S
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

Where are the Indian-Guyanese intellectuals?

October 29, 2015 | By | Filed Under Letters 

Dear Editor,
A letter writer raised a question in reference to the recent controversy regarding Diwali celebrations in Guyana by asking “Where are the Indian intellectuals?” In short, why are Indians not speaking out through a consensus voice and addressing issues germane to their physical existence?

 

The deafening silence has led to two possible conclusions. One, there are few Indian intellectuals in Guyana who are capable of articulating a position on behalf of Indians. Two, Indian intellectuals are afraid to speak out because of the perception that they may be branded as “racists”. They will be accused of not being a “true Guyanese” . . .


Baytoram Ramharack

this banna would have us believe that the Diwali imbroglio represents a retreat by "Indian" intellectuals from issues "germane to their "physical existence"

 

pandit daughta losing out in a political power play is now, for Indo-Guyanese, EXISTENTIAL! . . . [on so many freakin levels] huh?

 

this is the wet shit not-so-sly demagogues like Bayto Ramharack end up squeezing when they overreach . . . crawling around, sniffing out any platform (no matter how flimsy) to vend their ignoble political wares

 

itinerant 'intellectual' scampman . . . thoroughly engaged in authorship of installment ethnic poison being brewed up for Guyana in the bowels of barat's tiefman Sanata complex

 

disgusting and stink

Is it any wonder Guyana has sooo many problems. Just reading all the tripe in response to Batoram's comments. The man is correct in his comments. He did not blame anyone, just a general commentary he made.

 

Every ethnic group in Guyana is completely lost, it is evident in their quality of living. Just a few elites who controls the thought processes of their ethnic groups. 

 

The idea of the melting pot is not achievable. For that to happen, their must be trust. Just reading the shyte on here against Indianess is unbelievable.

 

Prejudices against Indoes even by Guyanese Indians. 

instead of pouting like a lil gurl and calling for a pity party, why don't u deconstruct my "tripe" suh we all can see how Bayto smart nah?

FM
Originally Posted by seignet:

I see nothing wrong in Bato's letter. Try very hard to be sympathetic to Indians. You will be insightful. 

instead of pouting like a lil gurl and calling for a pity party, why don't u deconstruct my "tripe" suh we all can see how Bayto smart nah?

 

i've posted my insight . . . let's see yours

FM
Originally Posted by TK:

No serious analysis of how PPP destroyed the economic and social fabric of the masses of Indos. As usual blame PNC and blackman.

I do not read anywhere in his letter where he blames the black man.

S
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

I see nothing wrong in Bato's letter. Try very hard to be sympathetic to Indians. You will be insightful. 

instead of pouting like a lil gurl and calling for a pity party, why don't u deconstruct my "tripe" suh we all can see how Bayto smart nah?

 

i've posted my insight . . . let's see yours

The words read, I found nothing wrong. I suspect some here have read more than what is written-they have it read with a bias. Knowing the man's history.

 

I never bother to read that letter until about an hour ago. Simply, because I suspect it will not bring economic progress to all the PEOPLES of Guyana. 

S
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

I see nothing wrong in Bato's letter. Try very hard to be sympathetic to Indians. You will be insightful. 

instead of pouting like a lil gurl and calling for a pity party, why don't u deconstruct my "tripe" suh we all can see how Bayto smart nah?

 

i've posted my insight . . . let's see yours

The words read, I found nothing wrong. I suspect some here have read more than what is written-they have it read with a bias. Knowing the man's history.

 

I never bother to read that letter until about an hour ago. Simply, because I suspect it will not bring economic progress to all the PEOPLES of Guyana. 

u 'critiqued' my post with a blast of hot air

 

still waiting for the substance

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

I see nothing wrong in Bato's letter. Try very hard to be sympathetic to Indians. You will be insightful. 

instead of pouting like a lil gurl and calling for a pity party, why don't u deconstruct my "tripe" suh we all can see how Bayto smart nah?

 

i've posted my insight . . . let's see yours

The words read, I found nothing wrong. I suspect some here have read more than what is written-they have it read with a bias. Knowing the man's history.

 

I never bother to read that letter until about an hour ago. Simply, because I suspect it will not bring economic progress to all the PEOPLES of Guyana. 

u 'critiqued' my post with a blast of hot air

 

still waiting for the substance

Write like a smart fella. Ur rambling reminds of my days taunting my school buddies.

S
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

I see nothing wrong in Bato's letter. Try very hard to be sympathetic to Indians. You will be insightful. 

instead of pouting like a lil gurl and calling for a pity party, why don't u deconstruct my "tripe" suh we all can see how Bayto smart nah?

 

i've posted my insight . . . let's see yours

The words read, I found nothing wrong. I suspect some here have read more than what is written-they have it read with a bias. Knowing the man's history.

 

I never bother to read that letter until about an hour ago. Simply, because I suspect it will not bring economic progress to all the PEOPLES of Guyana. 

u 'critiqued' my post with a blast of hot air

 

still waiting for the substance

Write like a smart fella. Ur rambling reminds of my days taunting my school buddies.

u got nothing eh?

 

keep clutching at your privates . . . it barely covers your nakedness

 

my job here is done

FM

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