u started the name calling . . . now u running like a lil gyal because i trumped yuh nonsense

g'wan suh . . . coward

I am fed up with the race bait threads.

Well thank you.

There was never utility in the ask to begin with. Anyone who remain silent does not get a vote on yea or nay to the question. Those who got involved in the mud need to be given the due regards. I do not agree with you folks but because you wrote we affirmed our view that you asked the wrong question for the wrong reasons.

I have listened to you and Kari. You cannot accuse me of not being cognizant of the reasons why most Indians have suspicions of the PNC, and even of black people in general.  I have made mention of this on several occasion, and indeed my first post on GNI addressed that fact.

I hope that you understood that there is an equally powerful narrative on the other side too.

What I hope that you take from this is something that I learned a whole ago.  There are many views expressed WITHIN the two major communities that are not necessarily available to people outside that community, so when some one is honest one should listen to them.

I have never argued with any Indian here about the PNC and Burnham.  Why do I think that Burnham was a racist?  Because Indians representing a broad cross section of opinion have said so.  Who am I to question what they went through during the Burnham era.

2014.  The shoe is on the other foot and the kick in the ass is just as hard.  Feelings are just as raw.  Respect that fact and don't argue because there might be things that you don't know.

There is NOTHING to be gained in getting into the apology thing.

Kaz had nothing useful to say.  He is a closet version of yuji.

Mits, I'd love an explanation as to why that thread on the PNC gaining the trust of Guyanese by an apology for the destruction under Burnham (our educational institutions, party-card for jobs, puttig GDF soldiers from far-away places in Indian rural areas, the destruction of the economy following the commodities boom of 1974-76, etc.) is race-baiting. Educate me.

Don't you have another 100 miles to go run or another 200 mile to bike or another 400 lbs to bench-press this morning, you old fool!

I can get snippy with you but it would be a waste of time. I passed you just the other day and if my mid fifties is old I suggest you look to your  pre diabetic darkening of the cheeks, bulging eyes bald head etc and reflect.

The point is you asked a question that showed a lack of  reflection on the question as usual.  Your supporting exposition on it to this point has been unoriginal and trite and when reminded of it one gets a meandering into madness as above.

CaribJ

one of the reason I bow out is because I feel enough has been said and Imade my point.

You have me laughing when you wrote this

 I have never argued with any Indian here about the PNC and Burnham.  Why do I think that Burnham was a racist?  Because Indians representing a broad cross section of opinion have said so.  Who am I to question what they went through during the Burnham era.

So as a good blackman you took the Indians by their  word. So were you both blind and deaf during those years.

You can continue to fool the uneducated blacks about the PPP being as bad as the PNC.  But one thing for sure the PPP did not kill their  way into office as the PNC. aNS ACCORDING TO YOUR MATHS IF THE pnc aplogize then all blacks are aplogizing then you and all the other blkacks has blood on your hands. 

You killed and murdered to get into office. You don't want to hear theat you murdered, well it's not me saying so it is you.

I have clearly statted that the PNC nned to aplogize but you want to include every blackman. I have a few black friends who I share this thread with and they are saying stop arguing with that fool, he is the type taht keep blacks in the gettos. They even went further to say that with your mentality Barack Obama would have never enevn think of running for the White House.

Because CaribJ confused them by saying every blackman was PNC.

I dis not ask a question. I stated that in order for the PNC to gain any respect from the electorate, not Indians, electortate, they ought to start a conversation with the people.  Apologize for the ills that they committed to get into and remain in office.

You jumped on the band wagon that an apology by the PNC is an apology to Indians. I went at length to prove that it is not so likewise all of you made your points.

Its' time for me to moveon to begin with I DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF TIME TO POST ONgni DURING THE DAY BECAUSE IT TAKES AWAY FROM MY BUSINESS. 

deconstructing Chief:

PPP bad but dem nat gat blood pan dem han [. . . hmmm?]

PNC badder fuh dayz becaz dem murder and stuff ballot baxes . . . derefore blackman muss apalagize to "coolie" man

meh "few black frens" fully agree wid me pan dis

I refrained from the issue and here's my rationale.

Just suppose that David Granger decides tomorrow morning to issue an official statement apologizing on behalf of the PNC for all the wrongs some Indo-Guyanese are demanding.

Does anyone really believe that those Indo-Guyanese will accept Granger's PNC apology?

I doubt. They will question his sincerity, add new demands, and so on.

Another thing. Every year on Indian Arrival Day we hear about how our grandparents and great grandparents suffered exploitation and oppression during indentureship, which is true. We know about the colonial police shooting and killing Indians at Devonshire Castle, Leonora, Non Pariel and Enmore.

But, no one has been demanding apologies from the white sugar planters and colonial rulers for such exploitation and oppression.

The PNC is singled out today purposefully for political propaganda and agitation, to deter people from voting against the PPP.

What some people are conspicuously silent about is that the Burnham/PNC regime could not have committed misdeeds without the collusion and proactive support of thousands of East Indians. Chief already alluded to this fact.

I recall that when I was secretary of the Georgetown PPP Group from 1984 to 1990 it was a problem to get attendance at Freedom House group meetings. The average attendance was 10 members, 6 of whom were black: Mitchell, Barnwell, Beaton, Belgrave, Collymore and Shirley Edwards. One was Portuguese: Gail Teixeira. Only 3 Indians.

The East Indians in Georgetown, including those who migrated from the rural areas, stayed far from the PPP.

While myself and other Indo-Guyanese chose to struggle with the PPP, tens of thousands more Indos chose to support the PNC or cut and run abroad as refugees. How many of them joined the PPP-affiliated Association of Concerned Guyanese in the US and Canada to fight for the removal of the PNC?

So, to me, pinpointing Granger and demanding apologies will solve nothing. Sheer hypocrisy and propagandizing is at play here on this issue.

How can anyone say Burnham was a racist when his best friend was Jagan?

well said mr Gilbakka; your honesty/perspective is refreshing

brace yourself for the vitriol, the smears and the tribal whispers of "traitor" . . . or worse

test

First, I do not jump on wagons. I write as I see fit when I see fit. I saw fit to address you on something I disagreed with and told you why.

I do not care if your write here often or not. I care about when your write something I think needs addressing.

As far as Iam concerned Burnham was not a racist. 

He wanted to remain in power until he died and that he did with the help of Jagan and Socialism.

Kari, chief bowed out.  I suggest that you do as well.  The "apology" demand shows that you don't have a clue as to how the Guyanese mind works.

You apologize to one and the other demands theirs, as you don't have it to offer.

You really are shocked that black people, suffering under racism from the PPP and the 3% Indians elites (the ones who refuse to hire them for jobs other than the lowest because "is not Burnham time now") will not be happy with this?

Kari black people have been punished for the PNC, especially after Cheddi died.  So when you say that the PNC must apologize to get Indian votes, why the shock that you don't think that they wouldn't see this as a demand that black people grovel to Indians?  In their minds they see that Indians view PNC=black people=PNC.  They aren't wrong, and YOU know this.

I see so you re open the argument.

I am amused that you seem offended by the fact that I listen to those Indians (almost all) who claim that they faced racism under Burnham.

I note that you seriously think that black people don't face similar racism under the PPP.  You think that they need someone living in NY to tell them what they already know. You must really think that black people are foolish if their lives are so great under the PPP to believe some one who doesn't live in Guyana.

Sir, this is why an apology CANNOT be accepted, because as we see you peddle the myth that the Indian hurt is worse than that of the black man.

You can show my comments to your friends all you wish, but that doesn't change the facts.

BTW way do know that you can get yourself into serious trouble when you accuse people of "killing their way into office".  Do you know for a fact that I killed any one, who was part of that?

And Chief is actually upset that I listen to Indians and refuse to argue with their premise that the PNC was racist towards them.

I guess he would prefer if a singled out the few Indians who benefitted under Burnham and then used that to deny that Indians  faced racism.

Or I could have said that black people end up WORSE off than did Indians and therefore that means that there wasn't racism targeted against Indians.

But no I refuse to do that because I will NEVER tell a man that I know more about his life than he does.

I will not even get into a debate with him about whether the PNC killed more people than the PPP except to say that they BOTH DID!

And we all have a few friends who will tell us what we want to hear, so that doesn't wash.

APNU gets as many votes from black people as they got since 1992, and the failure of the PPP to make inroads, despite the weakness of the PNC, and the power of incumbency that the PPP has which should allow them to buy votes, is indicative of something.

And yes Chief will think that I am some Superman who can sit down in NYC and force black people to vote for the PNC.  How stupid and gullible does he think that black people are.

Chief the PNC is already getting 85-90% of the votes from black AND mixed Guyanese, and did surprising well in the Rupununi.

So who do you mean the "electorate". Only one part of the electorate rejected them, so just say who there were.

Nothing wrong with a conversation about what they will do for the FUTURE.  And indeed I have said this.

But this race based apology stuff just opens up a can of worms.

Well most black people thought that Cheddi was a racist, or at least sanctioned Janet's racism and his best friend was Burnham.

Whether these gentlemen were personally racist isn't the issue.  Its the fact that BOTH exploited the racial insecurities of their voting blocs which is.

I guess the fact that almost every black man/woman votes for the PNC, so clearly doesn't need, want or expect an apology escapes you.

You also wish to deny that the past 20 years hasn't seen a similar level of angst develop among blacks towards the PPP (and the people who support them) as has developed among Indians to the PNC (and the people who support them).

Feel free.  I prefer to look at who people vote for and the reasons why they do so.

From where I see it an apology is in order from BOTH sides, and given that this is the case there is no need for either to apologize.

So continue to peddle "black man bad so he got to apologize" and then pretend as if this isn't what you mean.

And yes if your friends aren't aware of the ghettos in Guyana then they need to get out a bit more.

aCCORDING TO YOUR MATHS AND LOGIC  OF BLACKS IN GUYANA MURDERED 2 PEOPLE ON THE CORENTYNE ON JULY 16 1973. 

ACCORDING TO YOUR MATHS AND LOGIC  BLACKS MURDERED DR RODNEY AND OHENE KOAMA. ACCORDING TO YOUR MATHS EVERY CRIME THE PNC COMMITTED WAS DONE BY EVERYY BLACKMAN.

Now tyou talking shit about I getting into trouble. You open your stink mouth and say an apology by the PNC is an apology by blacks so now when I mention that you have blood on your hands you talking about me getting into trouble.

It is you who arrive at that conclusion that all blacks are murderers and all blacks stole the 1973 elections, that all blacks are bad.

How the ass you arrive that all blacks are murders and bad people is beyond my imagination.

One man Burnham surrounded himself with some of the best Indian brains decided to create a constitution and an environemnt to steal the elections and kill people and here you stupid ass blaming every blackman.

How more stupid can you be. 

So who kill Vincent Tika

According to CaribJ every blackman.

Very telling point. Couldn't have put CaribJ's psychosis better.

So let's say an apology is made, it's in the newspapers, on the radio, everone's all. yabba yabba yabba blab blba blab. Talk over.

It is now two months later....what's the difference? What happens next?

Gilly, an apology does a statement not make. It's the other things, like outreach and fighting in Parliament for the poor and putting the vast organization of the PNC to work like Hamas does in Gaza, that an apology does maketh.

We've already mentioned the architects of a lot of what Burnham did being Indians and some who wrote the damn constitution.

BTW we do not live with the British. We live with  the PNC - like we do with other parties and people actually in Guyana. The whites are not living there and we don't have to deal with them politically, so contrasting a PNC "Apology" with us not asking for a white apology over the indentureship period is...well.....

....well....a deep subject

Cainsta........an apology is more than a statement bro.......

Yeh,it's a crutch for the PPP

as a indian i do not need no apology from the PNC,the shit happen over 25 yrs now get over it.lets deal with the  present,which is worse than what the pnc did 

Kari, after the PPP get kicked out of office then maybe apologies could be made in coversation but other than that...nahhhhh.

How long has the PPP be asking for this apology?

An apology demonstrates a certain among of goodwill. The PNC CAN NOW MOVE ON TO FORM A coalition  Government without the  large baggage..Members from the other parties in the coalition  will also feel at ease  and more comfortable with  their leaders.

The PPP never asked for an apology. We don't even want them to ask for an apology. That will make the apology a plus for the PPP and not for the anti-PPP forces, be it AFC, APNU or whomsoever.

An apology with its attendant actions is meant to be a departure from what has not worked. It is to make the PNC a party more acceptable as a serious party. The 95% of the 40% who vote for the PNC (and I take it that that's the PNC's percentage) vote just like Indians do - out of race fear. Okay, so the PNC keeps its race-fear 41% but a 20% or so disaffected enough with the PPP may vote AFC or split or stay home giving up something closer to a tri-partite polity like Suriname's.

So who askin for this apology  yugi?

Oi chief, carry yo rass daside.

An apology by the PNC will cause Yugi's PPP to be out of business.