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FM
Former Member

Five months after Political Science Professor, David Hinds’ column was dropped from the state-owned and government controlled Guyana Chronicle newspaper, President David Granger made known his displeasure with one of the columns that was written two years ago.

Hinds has since maintained that his positions are rooted in historical evidence and he has rejected the President’s claim that he is opposed to African Guyanese joining political parties.

Using the opportunity of Cuffy250’s Annual State of African Guyanese, the President told the gathering that the writer, whom he did not name, failed to back his assertions with research, resulting in them being “fake theories”.

Granger suggested that positions such as those taken by Hinds amounted to a stumbling block to address a range of socioeconomic problems such as unemployment, school-dropouts and teenage pregnancy. Though the President did not refer to Hinds by name, he quoted several sections of the column written by that founding member of Cuffy250,  and contended that Political Scientist did not back his assertions with research, resulting in them being “fake theories”.

“There can be no credible research to explain these reckless pronouncements and I am convinced that national problems can be resolved but they cannot be resolved by fake theories, by inventing fake notions that refute reality and in fact they impede the means  of solving problems that confront society because they feel that these problems are insoluble,” said Granger, a former journalist and historian.  He recommended that steps be taken to determine the cause of “pervasive social problems” before finding the solutions. “We should not deny there are problems”.

For his part, Hinds said the President was similarly guilty of not scientifically proving that African Guyanese were often seeking small financial handouts, idling and not taking advantage of self-employment opportunities in the agricultural sector and other spheres of endeavour in his 2018 Emancipation eve speech at Beterverwagting (BV), East Coast Demerara. “The President was quoting (me) from a newspaper column, not a research paper. In any case the president should have heeded his own advice at BV when he did not present any data to prove his thesis about African Guyanese attitude to work and in support of his other comments about the group. It is only fair that he applies the same standards to himself that he does for me,” Hinds said.

Hinds believed that the President retaliated to his criticism of the Beterverwagting speech in a newspaper column that  could be read here . “It is clear the president was uncomfortable with my critique of his BV speech and used his speech yesterday (Sunday) to get back at me. But in the process he omitted the context of my comments, created his own context and placed my comments there to make his case about denialism,” said Hinds.

President David Granger addressing the opening of the Cuffy250 Annual State of African Guyanese Forum.

Granger suggested that Hinds was engaged in “indiscriminate denigration of whole sections of society” such as claiming that African Guyanese practice self-hatred. “When you consider there are about 250,000 African Guyanese, how could you intelligently say that African Guyanese practice self-hatred or that African Guyanese suffer from cultural blindness or that African Guyanese were surrendering their collective dignity to the dictates of party politics or how could he attack African Guyanese for losing faith in the ability to overcome… the emancipation spirit.

In his reaction, Hinds maintained that African Guyanese were bowing to dictates of political parties because post-colonial history shows that they go as far as giving up their personal rights  in favour of political parties. “African Guyanese have often defended their political party, they have often subsumed their ethnic and cultural interest to the dictates of the party and in defence of the party and I think that has not always served us well in the sense that political parties are not usually agents of change as far as ethnic interests are concerned,” he said.

Hinds noted that Granger’s People’s National Congress Reform (PNCR) never says it is an African Guyanese party and has never held rigidly to the standard that they have to look after the interest of African Guyanese. The outspoken Working People’s Alliance Executive Member rubbished the President’s position that he does not want African Guyanese to be associated with political parties. “For the president to come to some conclusion that I want to deny African Guyanese the right to organise and belong to political parties, I think is utter nonsense and I think the President knows better than that. I belong to a political party and I have organised people to join political parties and for the President to come to some conclusion that I want to deny African Guyanese the right to organise and belong to political parties, I think is utter nonsense and I think the President knows better than that,” he said.

Hinds said African Guyanese should not only be concerned with politics but with addressing their ethnic, economic and cultural concerns. “African Guyanese have to find a balance between their defence of their party and the defence of their ethnic interest and their cultural interest and their economic interest,” he said.

The President accused Hinds of stating that African Guyanese were self-haters who were believed that they were not equipped to improve their condition. “And most of all this acclaimed writer claimed that there has been no bigger sinner against  the Black man, since emancipation, than the Black man himself. These words were written and published by a Guyanese. It is a form of denial that the whole group in society has the capacity, has the self-esteem, the self-respect to transform their lives, to belong to political parties to improve their lives, to be culturally aware so my brothers and sisters, I just want to alert you to the danger of the denialism that is not only affecting other countries but is also affecting Guyanese as well,” Granger said.

On the question of self-hatred in the Black community is centuries old dating back to the plantation slavery period, Hinds said Granger’s position was “somewhat misleading” and has characterised as “mental slavery” by Marcus Garvey. “The question of self-hatred is an ongoing one that we have had to deal with. For the President to conclude that because I dealt with that question I am in some kind of denial about the capacity of African Guyanese to overcome is somewhat misleading because the President and all Guyana know that I have written so much about African Guyanese, I have spoken about the African Guyanese condition and I have never doubted the capacity of African Guyanese.” he said.

Hinds and veteran trade unionist, Lincoln Lewis were removed as columnists of the state-owned Guyana Chronicle newspaper in March, 2018.  Back then, government had denied any political involvement in the decision, instead saying that had been a decision for the board of the Guyana National Newspapers Limited, publishers of the newspaper.

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Unless Granger supported Volda instead of Harmon I will suggest to him that he has problems even WITHIN the PNC membership.  The rest of his base are just unimpressed with his gov't.  His folks ran and gave themselves a 50% increase and now wish to deny a large part of their base decent salary increases.

 

Granger needs to know that if the folks figure out that life under him is no better than it was under the PPP (hard and feeling ignored while watching elites engage in rampant corruption) they might well stay home in 2020.

But then I suspect that Granger isnt going to run in 2020 so maybe he doesn't care.

FM
caribny posted:

Unless Granger supported Volda instead of Harmon I will suggest to him that he has problems even WITHIN the PNC membership.  The rest of his base are just unimpressed with his gov't.  His folks ran and gave themselves a 50% increase and now wish to deny a large part of their base decent salary increases.

 

Granger needs to know that if the folks figure out that life under him is no better than it was under the PPP (hard and feeling ignored while watching elites engage in rampant corruption) they might well stay home in 2020.

But then I suspect that Granger isnt going to run in 2020 so maybe he doesn't care.

Me thinks Granger will run come 2020 elections.

What he is saying is tough for folks to admit,there are problems that need to be addressed at the community level.

Take a peek what he said,Addressing the Cuffy 250 State of the African-Guyanese Forum

President: joblessness, teen pregnancy, school dropouts are ‘big problems’-railed against “denialism”.

Django
Last edited by Django
Django posted:
 

Me thinks Granger will run come 2020 elections.

What he is saying is tough for folks to admit,there are problems that need to be addressed at the community level.

Take a peek what he said,Addressing the Cuffy 250 State of the African-Guyanese Forum

President: joblessness, teen pregnancy, school dropouts are ‘big problems’-railed against “denialism”.

I would expect Granger to develop a nuanced discussion of this and announce programs to work with those youth who wish to help themselves.

In fact Granger spent a whole afternoon calling black people lazy, drunks and just looking for a raise.  I hope he says the same thing when he begins to campaign in these areas in the election run up.

Ironically its his gov't which can be accused of being a bunch of lazy people looking for a raise.  I really cannot think of any imaginative initiatives that they have embarked on to assist in the resolution of these programs.  Its only "oil. oil, oil".

I am even interested in seeing what the rate of teen pregnancy really is in Guyana.   I think that the gov't is supposed to focus on resolving joblessness.  If they are unable to do so then why do they want power?

FM

When I criticize the PNC or suggest that blacks aren't perfect I am "fair".  I am a "racist" when I do the same for PPP or Indians.

Well prove that you can be fair by discussing the role of the PPP/Indians in Guyana's ethnic problems.

FM

@Former Member Granger has said what many are thinking within and out the Afro community, not nice to hear but not wrong either. It addresses a larger issue that can be seen from Trinidad to Jamaica and to a larger extent in many urban areas in the US and Canada, young black men are falling behind socially and economically. No easy answers but some are immediately obvious to see, value in self,family education and self employment aka entrepreneurship and beyond the stereotypes that are becoming far to familiar 

I say well said Granger (But understand where you are coming from though )

FM
yuji22 posted:

Carib at his best when he wants to be fair. 

Carib does go and come.

Where we part company is when he start to say that Indians marginalize blacks and keep them down.

What I find alarming with both David Hinds and Granger is that they are ignoring tbe otber races . The same social or similar problems affect every race, within Indians it is suicide.

These leaders need to get their act together, Or America will chew Nd spit them out like nothing.

America love a divide and rule.

Chief

@Chief I'm far from a Granger apologist but believe he was addressing a largely Afro event.

Sadly what you say is true, we are now seeing a generation of young Indo Guyanese men becoming trapped in the same cycle, both have been woefully let down by there elders and neglected by politicians on both sides . 

FM

If Granger was an East Indian in the GDF married to a Chinese woman do you think that he would have been promoted to lead the army regardless of how hard he worked? It is not about working hard only it is about connections also and he most of all should know this.

Prashad
Dougla_80 posted:

@Former Member Granger has said what many are thinking within and out the Afro community, not nice to hear but not wrong either. It addresses a larger issue that can be seen from Trinidad to Jamaica and to a larger extent in many urban areas in the US and Canada, young black men are falling behind socially and economically. No easy answers but some are immediately obvious to see, value in self,family education and self employment aka entrepreneurship and beyond the stereotypes that are becoming far to familiar 

I say well said Granger (But understand where you are coming from though )

SOME black men, not all.    And of course Granger is hoping to get the support of these people. So what is he doing about this?  How does going in front of a room of black people and telling the ENTIRE room that this is what they are like help him?

And in fact in Guyana black women are holding themselves up so why are the ENTIRE black female population being stigmatized as lazy females who just want to lime and breed and beg.

I bet if someone went up to Granger and told him that this is what his black relatives are he would be extremely angry.

Talk about those who face the problem. It is UNFAIR to the many black poor who struggle hard to stigmatize them.  Did Granger give any credit to this? No! 

And the truth is that Granger is angry that many of his support base claim that they have not benefitted anymore from his gov't than they did from the PPP. And given that the PPP was extremely racist towards them this isnt saying a good thing.

Anyway Granger isnt running in 2020 so angering his base doesn't worry him.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Dougla_80 posted:

@Chief I'm far from a Granger apologist but believe he was addressing a largely Afro event.

Sadly what you say is true, we are now seeing a generation of young Indo Guyanese men becoming trapped in the same cycle, both have been woefully let down by there elders and neglected by politicians on both sides . 

In fact there is a boy problem worldwide. WORKING class boys are falling behind regardless of race.

In fact in the UK the word is that so much attention was made of the black boy problem that the working class white boy problem was ignored.

Now its the working class white boys who are performing worst in the school systems, though being white they have better access to employment.

FM
 

Where we part company is when he start to say that Indians marginalize blacks and keep them down.

W

You are the man who said that the PNC (black people) most apologize to Indians even though the PPP (Indians) were no better to blacks.

Excuse me if I remind you that racism in Guyana goes BOTH ways.

And if you mean that the PNC must apologize because of the excesses of the Burnham era aren't you the fraud by screaming that only Indians must get an apology when you know full well that EVERYBODY had to line up and starve during that period. So why only Indians due an apology.

I say what I say because people like you don't even try to be fair and balanced.  I am not going to let the world believe that Afro Guyanese are the only culprits for Guyana's woes.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

And yes segments of both Indians and blacks manifest social pathologies arising for our extended time on colonial sugar estates.  The Portuguese and Chinese left quickly so have fewer of these problems.

FM
yuji22 posted:

Carib at his best when he wants to be fair. 

In fact, Granger spent a whole afternoon calling black people lazy, drunks and just looking for a raise.

And I got criticized for saying this? Blacks can do this to blacks, but when coolies do it, they are racist? Where is Princess CYL Pusswah? Blacks are drunks too according to the black President of Guyana.

 

FM
caribny posted:
 

Where we part company is when he start to say that Indians marginalize blacks and keep them down.

W

You are the man who said that the PNC (black people) most apologize to Indians even though the PPP (Indians) were no better to blacks.

Excuse me if I remind you that racism in Guyana goes BOTH ways.

And if you mean that the PNC must apologize because of the excesses of the Burnham era aren't you the fraud by screaming that only Indians must get an apology when you know full well that EVERYBODY had to line up and starve during that period. So why only Indians due an apology.

I say what I say because people like you don't even try to be fair and balanced.  I am not going to let the world believe that Afro Guyanese are the only culprits for Guyana's woes.

You love to turn my words around. I said the PNC need to apologize to all Guyanese .

Let me make this clear, you and I do agree on quite a few things.  Sometimes you go go over board with this black marginalization nonsense,  like it or not, that is what can hold back blacks, not so much in Guyana but more so in America.

Chief
skeldon_man posted:
yuji22 posted:

Carib at his best when he wants to be fair. 

In fact, Granger spent a whole afternoon calling black people lazy, drunks and just looking for a raise.

And I got criticized for saying this? Blacks can do this to blacks, but when coolies do it, they are racist? Where is Princess CYL Pusswah? Blacks are drunks too according to the black President of Guyana.

 

Do you see more celebrating Granger?  In fact Granger gives cover for people like you to damn all blacks, even including him.

FM

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