bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

He believes that nature should wash his car. Rain!

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

Bhai,the issue have to clear up,every person have different take.

skeldon_man posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

He believes that nature should wash his car. Rain!

That's the best wash.

Also bathing in the rain is enjoyable.

Back in 1967, ppl from Enmore was still upset with Luckhoo for wanting to bring more Indians to British Guiana to punish. Around that same time, the Colonial Police juss shoot cooolie ppl at the commands of the planters.

seignet posted:

Back in 1967, ppl from Enmore was still upset with Luckhoo for wanting to bring more Indians to British Guiana to punish. Around that same time, the Colonial Police juss shoot cooolie ppl at the commands of the planters.

Suh finally a tacit admission from you that such a plan existed. Pon de odda thread yuh seh dem black fellas telling "lies".

For the record, I am not suggesting that any of this that happened a hundred years or so ago is in effect today. However, it is a part of our history that needs to be acknowledged especially by Indian folks. Just as you want black folks to acknowledge the racism of Burnham, which I and other Afro Guyanese do. But do understand the racism didn't start with Burnham and that's why this thread and the other will be a sore topic among the Indo KKK here who love to paint black people as racists who live to perpetrate acts of violence against Indians.

The whole BGEIA plan shows Indians were just as guilty of racism against blacks and wanted to seize control of the colony to create a de facto extension of India where blacks and Amerindians would be a minority. Let's remember a hundred years ago the caste system of India was far more pervasive than it is today. So where would blacks, Amerindians and others be in such an Indian ruled colony? The Luckhoos themselves were elitists.

This BGEIA stuff is ONE of the roots of our distrust of each other. In an environment where blacks saw Indians as eroding their struggle against colonials by supplying cheap labor, this BGEIA plan further exacerbated the tensions. We need to understand this and other issues that led us to where we are today if we are to move forward. I done.

Iguana posted:

This BGEIA stuff is ONE of the roots of our distrust of each other. In an environment where blacks saw Indians as eroding their struggle against colonials by supplying cheap labor, this BGEIA plan further exacerbated the tensions. We need to understand this and other issues that led us to where we are today if we are to move forward. I done.

That's the point,both races are guilty.

Time to stop the mudslinging,move on and make the country a better place.

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

This BGEIA stuff is ONE of the roots of our distrust of each other. In an environment where blacks saw Indians as eroding their struggle against colonials by supplying cheap labor, this BGEIA plan further exacerbated the tensions. We need to understand this and other issues that led us to where we are today if we are to move forward. I done.

That's the point,both races are guilty.

Time to stop the mudslinging,move on and make the country a better place.

Yeah, still waiting on the " promise for change by APNU" so the country can be a BETTER PLACE.

Django posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

Bhai,the issue have to clear up,every person have different take.

What is there to clear up?  Every time you post on this topic you further the notion that the goal of the BGEIA was ethnic domination of BG by an immigrant group.

Now how would you react if the Brazilians living in Guyana decided to mount a campaign to bring in 400,000 Brazilians into Guyana because they wanted political domination? 

seignet posted:

Back in 1967, ppl from Enmore was still upset with Luckhoo for wanting to bring more Indians to British Guiana to punish. Around that same time, the Colonial Police juss shoot cooolie ppl at the commands of the planters.

And they were right.  These Indian elites didn't care a thing for the ordinary Indian.  They wrote to India claiming that Indians in Guyana were thriving, which was a blatant lie.  

Their time would have been better spent working in COOPERATION with the black groups to ensure that working class people in Guyana both the locals (at the time mainly black), and the immigrants (at that time mainly Indian) were able to achieve better working and living conditions.

Instead they pursued a policy to confront the black and colored groups, who at the time were already locked in battle with the plantation interests and the colonial authorities.

What is to be noted is that there is no evidence that the black groups demanded that Indian immigrants be deported, even though their presence did facilitate the ill treatment by the planters of the blacks. The objection was the plan to turn BG into a virtual Indian colony, so that Indian elites could dominate. Clearly they weren't willing to add a new master to the one that they already had.

Iguana posted:

seignet posted:

Back in 1967, ppl from Enmore was still upset with Luckhoo for wanting to bring more Indians to British Guiana to punish. Around that same time, the Colonial Police juss shoot cooolie ppl at the commands of the planters.

Suh finally a tacit admission from you that such a plan existed. Pon de odda thread yuh seh dem black fellas telling "lies".

For the record, I am not suggesting that any of this that happened a hundred years or so ago is in effect today. However, it is a part of our history that needs to be acknowledged especially by Indian folks. Just as you want black folks to acknowledge the racism of Burnham, which I and other Afro Guyanese do. But do understand the racism didn't start with Burnham and that's why this thread and the other will be a sore topic among the Indo KKK here who love to paint black people as racists who live to perpetrate acts of violence against Indians.

The whole BGEIA plan shows Indians were just as guilty of racism against blacks and wanted to seize control of the colony to create a de facto extension of India where blacks and Amerindians would be a minority. Let's remember a hundred years ago the caste system of India was far more pervasive than it is today. So where would blacks, Amerindians and others be in such an Indian ruled colony? The Luckhoos themselves were elitists.

This BGEIA stuff is ONE of the roots of our distrust of each other. In an environment where blacks saw Indians as eroding their struggle against colonials by supplying cheap labor, this BGEIA plan further exacerbated the tensions. We need to understand this and other issues that led us to where we are today if we are to move forward. I done.

You are misreading what was stated if you are referring to my posts. Everywhere  I encountered the strategy to maximize Indian population in Guyana, the seminal understanding is that this was the plan of a narrow few, Luckoo, the AG and a few others. There was no generalized Indian plan agreed to across the colony or  situated in the BEGIA which was mainly a cultural org. 

Indeed the BEGIA was a source of distrust but not because it was racist but because it sought to bring Indians, of some 20 or more tribal peoples, to a unity. These were all sudra Jats and they were extremely loyal to a clanlike tribalism.

The BEGIA destroyed tribalism and reconstituted the Indian identity to what we have, castelessness. It took until the middle of the last century for Indians to move to the understanding that girls are not brood mares and cultural transmitters but  can have independent identity. It was a difficult to thing to do sinceHinduism is almost inseparable from the varna system. Yet it is not practiced in GY today and Hindus still think themselves mainly saanathan dharma.

It must be noted that this reconstitution did not come about without losses. Much of what the people knew as their cultural selves were erased in the process for the constituted indian culture. 

caribny posted:

Django posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

Bhai,the issue have to clear up,every person have different take.

What is there to clear up?  Every time you post on this topic you further the notion that the goal of the BGEIA was ethnic domination of BG by an immigrant group.

Now how would you react if the Brazilians living in Guyana decided to mount a campaign to bring in 400,000 Brazilians into Guyana because they wanted political domination? 

Guyana was a colony. Internal groups had to seek permission to do anything. T BEGIA did not seek to increase indentureship. They also did not actively encourage further indian migration as part of their plan for Indians. Note Guyana almost became the new Israel as the British was about to use it to resettle European jews after the war. Jews were in dire straits and would have accepted had there not been an active scheme to move them into Palestine.

Wow, Caribj found a new outlet for his mental misery!  

BTW, Guyana might have done well with some Israelis!

Caribj would be more miserable.  Now the Brazilians coming.  

I never knew much of this BGEIA, but now I’m sorry it was aborted.  

D2 posted:

 

Guyana was a colony. Internal groups had to seek permission to do anything. T BEGIA did not seek to increase indentureship. They also did not actively encourage further indian migration as part of their plan for Indians. 

The UK didn't plan to bring in Jews to solve any labor issues.  In any case the Jews didn't want to go.

What purpose did having Indian colonization serve. How would that have benefitted the existing populations of Guyana.  The BGEIA had a plan of Indian domination, meaning that the existing black and colored populations would not only have had to deal with the white overlords, but also a new Indian group, who would have squeezed them out.

The evidence is that the black and colored groups unanimously objected to this plan.  I will suggest that an examination of their reasons be examined. On GNI there is this filthy habit of only seeing life through the prisms of the Indian only.

I am willing to bet that you wouldn't endorse any plan by Brazilians to flood Guyana with their countrymen.  Yes their excuse will be to defend and propagate their culture.   Clearly the local population would object. Recall that at the time the bulk of the Indian population were immigrants, or people whose parents were.

Baseman posted:

 

Caribj would be more miserable.  Now the Brazilians coming.  

 

If you wish Guyana to be annexed to Brazil with Portuguese becoming the dominant language go right ahead.  I have a suspicion that I am culturally more like a Brazilian than you are, given that their culture is another version of our creole one.

D2 posted:

 

 

I

 

The BEGIA destroyed tribalism 

No they replaced one form of tribalism with another and we see this even up to today.  Guyana is the most tribal country in the Americas.

I would also like you to cite any society which went through the extreme demographic changes that British Guiana did in a mere 20-30 years towards the end of the 19th C where there wasn't conflict.  I will suggest to you that the NATIVE black/colored populations were quite tolerant. And yes they were native as their roots outside of Guyana had long vanished. They had no interest in Africa.

So true, a Mughabe President with supporters of the Hutu Clan!!!

caribny posted:

Django posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

Bhai,the issue have to clear up,every person have different take.

What is there to clear up?  Every time you post on this topic you further the notion that the goal of the BGEIA was ethnic domination of BG by an immigrant group.

Now how would you react if the Brazilians living in Guyana decided to mount a campaign to bring in 400,000 Brazilians into Guyana because they wanted political domination? 

Carib,

I never read the details of the Scheme until now,what i am clearing up is the views of different writers.If i was around that period,surely i won't support such.

The country miseries started,when politicians wanted self government,racism was exacerbated, the quagmire continues,politicians used race based tactics to achieve power.

The power is in the people to change that,can they do it,yes they can.

Will they do it,we will have to wait and see.

I am done with this issue,no more resurrection of these old events,a lot of folks can learn a thing or two.

Django posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

He believes that nature should wash his car. Rain!

That's the best wash.

Also bathing in the rain is enjoyable.

DJ, thanks fa posting this information and not taking the time to wash you BMW cyar, because me female college teacha fren in India, finds this interesting to write about Indian Indenture Labourers.

Regarding bathing in the rain. Where I live, its cold and sometimes even chilly in summer to bathe in the rain.

So during one of our sustainable projects to a remote village, a distance from  Palenque, Chiapas, Mexico.  We were waiting for the farmers to return from the field for a meeting and it started to rain.

The ten in our group were in a small shed, where we slept on the floor and as I mentioned how enjoyable it was to bathe in the rain in Guyana, someone suggested why not do it here.

So I stripped to my shorts and went under  the rain gutter to bathe, while the villagers watched, some from behind bushes, because they don't have many visitors.  Our group leader passed me some soap that he 'borrowed' from the hotel in Mexico City and I lathered  myself.

Suddenly, the rain stopped while I  was still completely covered with soap. My eyes were closed and for a while and I could not do anything.  A soft hand held mine and pulled me to walk a short distance and water was poured over my head. When I opened my eyes an old lady was standing near me with a big smile and everyone was clapping.

Later we realized this incident was the ice breaker to meet the villages for the first time, as many were saying with a smile  and in a friendly way in Spanish, 'dis crazy man'.

This village took me back to our logie days in Guyana. One morning I woke at 4 am and sat on  dirt pile, while I watched the female villagers wake up to cook.

Just like my mother saying to my sisters to wake up  at 3 am to make breakfast and cook lunch to be carried to work. The mother of this house called her daughters to wake up to help with the cooking.

As I watched  the  lights  from holes between bars in the kitchen  and with deep emotions like my late mother would say to my sisters, the mother said,  'Rosita, wake up, papa want food for work'.

Tola posted:

Django posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

He believes that nature should wash his car. Rain!

That's the best wash.

Also bathing in the rain is enjoyable.

DJ, thanks fa posting this information and not taking the time to wash you BMW cyar, because me female college teacha fren in India, finds this interesting to write about Indian Indenture Labourers.

Regarding bathing in the rain. Where I live, its cold and sometimes even chilly in summer to bathe in the rain.

  

Tola,

Great your friend find the post on GNI helpful,maybe i will read her narrative some day.

As kids i enjoyed bathing in the rain,it was lots of fun.Regarding living in logies,luckily we didn't,my grandparents got land in one of the earlier Indian Settlements.

D2 posted:

Guyana was a colony. Internal groups had to seek permission to do anything. T BEGIA did not seek to increase indentureship. They also did not actively encourage further indian migration as part of their plan for Indians. Note Guyana almost became the new Israel as the British was about to use it to resettle European jews after the war. Jews were in dire straits and would have accepted had there not been an active scheme to move them into Palestine.

there were Imperial plans to settle and re-settle Indians all over the British empire in the early inter-war years as a way to maintain a vast empire coming under strain from a debilitating 'White' manpower shortage after WWI

certain Indian elites in British Guiana and Trinidad in concert with the plantation class sought to integrate the Imperial plans with their own parochial fantasies and agendas

Indians in the subcontinent, by and large, wanted no part of this subimperialist scheme . . . properly seeing it as a threat to their own struggle for independence

i would venture that these aborted schemes informed the communist pre-independence politics of Cheddi Jagan and his hostility to ethnic nationalist politics/politicians given that not-so-distant history (this stuff was live well into the 1930's) and the corrosive effects

Django posted:

Tola posted:

Django posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

He believes that nature should wash his car. Rain!

That's the best wash.

Also bathing in the rain is enjoyable.

DJ, thanks fa posting this information and not taking the time to wash you BMW cyar, because me female college teacha fren in India, finds this interesting to write about Indian Indenture Labourers.

Regarding bathing in the rain. Where I live, its cold and sometimes even chilly in summer to bathe in the rain.

  

Tola,

Great your friend find the post on GNI helpful,maybe i will read her narrative some day.

As kids i enjoyed bathing in the rain,it was lots of fun.Regarding living in logies,luckily we didn't,my grandparents got land in one of the earlier Indian Settlements.

Them bhais claiming ownership of that grandparents land, you need to find out whats going on.

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Tola posted:

Django posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Ray posted:

bai...yuh nuh got cyar fuh wash or something...

He believes that nature should wash his car. Rain!

That's the best wash.

Also bathing in the rain is enjoyable.

DJ, thanks fa posting this information and not taking the time to wash you BMW cyar, because me female college teacha fren in India, finds this interesting to write about Indian Indenture Labourers.

Regarding bathing in the rain. Where I live, its cold and sometimes even chilly in summer to bathe in the rain.

  

Tola,

Great your friend find the post on GNI helpful,maybe i will read her narrative some day.

As kids i enjoyed bathing in the rain,it was lots of fun.Regarding living in logies,luckily we didn't,my grandparents got land in one of the earlier Indian Settlements.

Them bhais claiming ownership of that grandparents land, you need to find out whats going on.

Doan have to worry,my Cousins are in control,will pass on from generation to generation.

caribny posted:

D2 posted:

 

 

I

 

The BEGIA destroyed tribalism 

No they replaced one form of tribalism with another and we see this even up to today.  Guyana is the most tribal country in the Americas.

I would also like you to cite any society which went through the extreme demographic changes that British Guiana did in a mere 20-30 years towards the end of the 19th C where there wasn't conflict.  I will suggest to you that the NATIVE black/colored populations were quite tolerant. And yes they were native as their roots outside of Guyana had long vanished. They had no interest in Africa.

To seek identity of any kind is a form or retribalizing. The good or bad of it  depends on the context. The integrating of distinctly separate tribal peoples into a cultural block because they share land of origin is what both groups in Guyana did. Africans were of many tribes, linguistic distinct, culturally distinct etc. There is nothing wrong with this. 

The term you use "indianist", "clannish" takes on a pejorative aspect only in politics of adversarial tribal self interest. Under natural democratic process;  systems are needed to mediate pernicious aspects of self interest and prejudices. My contention with you often is on this reality. The holding of our state as an ethnic prize is not merely an Indian aspiration for which they are to be blamed. It is also an African aspiration and our failure to address this is our mutual sin. 

The reasons given for holding those views can be made irrelevant. It is why Marshall sought to lay down precedence in the law to dismantle Jim Crow and which he achieved via brown vs Board of education. What we do to change the system that allows self interest to run amuck is what matters. I do not give a damn if an Indian or African is as racist as any. I care that the system does not allow die the magnification of that racist so it can effectively perpetuate itself or be used as a weapon freely in the society. 

Our constitution fails us here. It was designed to magnify racism and ethnic squabbles indirectly because it effectively elects autocrats. If those autocrats can use ethnicity to bootstrap themselves, they will do exactly that. And in our case they use it as their only political tool hence we continually fight each others as crabs in a barrel. This keeps "nation" and "nationalism" as representations of individual group culture ( a natural default position)  and never as what is necessary to hold a modern democratic state together; "communal nationalism" or Multiculturalism where there can be symbols of meaning to every group. The modern state is completely artificial so we need the system to allow for cultural differences but also to create intersecting spaces in which all can express pride in belonging. 

ronan posted:

D2 posted:

Guyana was a colony. Internal groups had to seek permission to do anything. T BEGIA did not seek to increase indentureship. They also did not actively encourage further indian migration as part of their plan for Indians. Note Guyana almost became the new Israel as the British was about to use it to resettle European jews after the war. Jews were in dire straits and would have accepted had there not been an active scheme to move them into Palestine.

there were Imperial plans to settle and re-settle Indians all over the British empire in the early inter-war years as a way to maintain a vast empire coming under strain from a debilitating 'White' manpower shortage after WWI

certain Indian elites in British Guiana and Trinidad in concert with the plantation class sought to integrate the Imperial plans with their own parochial fantasies and agendas

Indians in the subcontinent, by and large, wanted no part of this subimperialist scheme . . . properly seeing it as a threat to their own struggle for independence

i would venture that these aborted schemes informed the communist pre-independence politics of Cheddi Jagan and his hostility to ethnic nationalist politics/politicians given that not-so-distant history (this stuff was live well into the 1930's) and the corrosive effects

You continue to spin and conjuring up fantacies of East Indian domination.

Jagan probably never entertained Blacks until he met Janet in America. 

And many Blacks and Colored din care much for him, either because he was an Indian or a communist. I would venture to think because he was an Indian. He also, like you do not like cooolie ppl. For him, they had their purpose.

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

This BGEIA stuff is ONE of the roots of our distrust of each other. In an environment where blacks saw Indians as eroding their struggle against colonials by supplying cheap labor, this BGEIA plan further exacerbated the tensions. We need to understand this and other issues that led us to where we are today if we are to move forward. I done.

That's the point,both races are guilty.

Time to stop the mudslinging,move on and make the country a better place.

It ain that simple.

Why did Cain kill Abel-pure covetiousness.

In Guyana, it is economics.

Give ppl opportunities and they will be less covetious.

Stop being against your ppl. U r an Indian until the day when Black ppl think of you as a Guyanese. For the present, dey see u simply as an Indentured who should have gone back to India.

Just tek this story about Luckhoo, the man juss wanted to please the planters and increase the labor force in BG. For the Baccra man it was economic, but for dem black bruddahs, it was a cause to marginalize dem. After all dem decades, dey still think we gat some scheme to marginlaize dem, even Jagdeo dey blame.

Bhai, wake up. Doan hate anybody. But please doan be like Jagan and blame we Indian ppl. We gat feelings and pride. We hurt when the Black man kill us, rape our wimen and cuss us up because we juss happen to be cooolie.

Have feelings for your ppl, God knows they are DISPISED.

I know the blackman of today hate us.

I experienced their kindness when I was little and it laid a strong foundation for my life. So influential were they in my life that after close to eight decades I could still name every one from the day they saved my life with bush medicine and hold my hands and guide my fingers to write the letters of the alpabet.

They are not the same race like in the 40's. Burnham lead dem to hate the Indians.

They have a venom-posioning demselfs and GUYANA. We ARE going to be lost forever and together.

Quite a piece there Seignet,

I doan hate my people,for that matter no other people.We all know the era and what caused our polarization,we need to revert back to the harmony that was there in the 19 th century.

The plantation owners used our ancestors,to undermine the then present day labor force,they recruit them from the eastern land of the northern Atlantic Ocean,treated them as lesser mortals,housed them in unsanitary conditions,they gave them water to drink,the common source for life,that was unfit for lower animals. Their death rates were higher in the Caribbean.That's what they had to embrace for survival,we survived their off springs are all over the world.

My view is let bygones be bygones,start a new page,cast out the hatemongers.Make the Country a better place for all the citizens.There is enough land and resources for all to benefit.

That my hope for the Country of my birth.

Iguana posted:

seignet posted:

Back in 1967, ppl from Enmore was still upset with Luckhoo for wanting to bring more Indians to British Guiana to punish. Around that same time, the Colonial Police juss shoot cooolie ppl at the commands of the planters.

Suh finally a tacit admission from you that such a plan existed. Pon de odda thread yuh seh dem black fellas telling "lies".

For the record, I am not suggesting that any of this that happened a hundred years or so ago is in effect today. However, it is a part of our history that needs to be acknowledged especially by Indian folks. Just as you want black folks to acknowledge the racism of Burnham, which I and other Afro Guyanese do. But do understand the racism didn't start with Burnham and that's why this thread and the other will be a sore topic among the Indo KKK here who love to paint black people as racists who live to perpetrate acts of violence against Indians.

The whole BGEIA plan shows Indians were just as guilty of racism against blacks and wanted to seize control of the colony to create a de facto extension of India where blacks and Amerindians would be a minority. Let's remember a hundred years ago the caste system of India was far more pervasive than it is today. So where would blacks, Amerindians and others be in such an Indian ruled colony? The Luckhoos themselves were elitists.

This BGEIA stuff is ONE of the roots of our distrust of each other. In an environment where blacks saw Indians as eroding their struggle against colonials by supplying cheap labor, this BGEIA plan further exacerbated the tensions. We need to understand this and other issues that led us to where we are today if we are to move forward. I done.

Hey hey hey...meh see ayoo quck PHD Dr Mr Eric Phillips seh how Africans own 15000 sq mile because dem drain 15000 square mile. De only trouble wid dat is dem Dutchman only drain de coastal region. And de whole coast region is 3, 500 sq mile. Like Granger, Phillips and all you one lovers plannin foh drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic? Hey hey hey...blackman drain de coast foh true. Coolie drain am because he silt would full up quck and bush like dem moca moca plant would tek un over if dem coolie peopkle didnt continue foh drain um. Hey hey hey...BTW when Eric wip up dat online dactarate? Hey hey hey...Bai Eric is wan smart man. Yuh know how much money Mr Dr Dr Dr Dr Dr Jagdoe give de man? 

Guyanese born Eric Phillips named in the 1990-91 list of White House Fellows by President George H. W. Bush

http://www.guyanagraphic.com/g...s-president-george-h

Submitted by Maggie Reece on Wed, 10/08/2014

June 6, 1990 - Eric McLaren Phillips, of Maplewood, NJ was one of 12 named by George H. W. Bush XLI President of the United States 1989-1993 in the appointments of the 1990-91 White House Fellows.

Mr. Phillips, born October 19, 1952, in Dundee, Mahaicony, Guyana and was employed as a district manager within AT&T International Communications Services, Basking Ridge, NJ.

In 1989, he received an Outstanding Service Award from AT&T Bell Laboratories for his exceptional contribution in his field of electrical engineering and computer science.

Mr. Phillips graduated from McMaster in Canada (B.S., 1976) and from New York University (M.B.A., 1983).

The 1990 - 91 White House fellows is the 26th class of fellows since the program was established in 1964. Twelve fellows were chosen from nearly 1,000 applicants who were screened by 11 regional panels. The President's Commission on White House Fellowships, chaired by Ronna Romney, interviewed the 33 national finalists prior to recommending the 12 persons to the President. Their year of government service will begin September 1, 1990.

Fellows serve for 1 year as special assistants to the President's principal staff, the Vice President, and members of the Cabinet. In addition to the work assignments, the fellowship includes an education program that parallels and broadens the unique experience of working at the highest levels of the Federal Government. The program is open to U.S. citizens in the early stages of their careers and from all occupations and professions. Federal Government employees are not eligible, with the exception of career Armed Forces personnel. Leadership, character, intellectual and professional ability, and commitment to community and national service are the principal criteria employed in the selection of fellow.

---

Oye Labba,is Eric Phillips in GY and this guy the same person ??

Yea...doh is de Mr Dr Phillips who wip up wan dactarate overnite and seh how blackman drain 15000 square mile. He didnt mention dat coolie dig new canals and dem keep out de moca moca bush and silt from dem ones what blackman dig out. Hey hey hey...what intellectual qucks and mediocres...hey hey hey. Dr Dr Dr Dr Dr Mr Jagdoe ge de man nuff money. 

D2 posted:

caribny posted:

D2 posted:

 

 

I

 

The BEGIA destroyed tribalism 

No they replaced one form of tribalism with another and we see this even up to today.  Guyana is the most tribal country in the Americas.

I would also like you to cite any society which went through the extreme demographic changes that British Guiana did in a mere 20-30 years towards the end of the 19th C where there wasn't conflict.  I will suggest to you that the NATIVE black/colored populations were quite tolerant. And yes they were native as their roots outside of Guyana had long vanished. They had no interest in Africa.

To seek identity of any kind is a form or retribalizing. The good or bad of it  depends on the context. The integrating of distinctly separate tribal peoples into a cultural block because they share land of origin is what both groups in Guyana did. Africans were of many tribes, linguistic distinct, culturally distinct etc. There is nothing wrong with this. 

The term you use "indianist", "clannish" takes on a pejorative aspect only in politics of adversarial tribal self interest. Under natural democratic process;  systems are needed to mediate pernicious aspects of self interest and prejudices. My contention with you often is on this reality. The holding of our state as an ethnic prize is not merely an Indian aspiration for which they are to be blamed. It is also an African aspiration and our failure to address this is our mutual sin. 

The reasons given for holding those views can be made irrelevant. It is why Marshall sought to lay down precedence in the law to dismantle Jim Crow and which he achieved via brown vs Board of education. What we do to change the system that allows self interest to run amuck is what matters. I do not give a damn if an Indian or African is as racist as any. I care that the system does not allow die the magnification of that racist so it can effectively perpetuate itself or be used as a weapon freely in the society. 

Our constitution fails us here. It was designed to magnify racism and ethnic squabbles indirectly because it effectively elects autocrats. If those autocrats can use ethnicity to bootstrap themselves, they will do exactly that. And in our case they use it as their only political tool hence we continually fight each others as crabs in a barrel. This keeps "nation" and "nationalism" as representations of individual group culture ( a natural default position)  and never as what is necessary to hold a modern democratic state together; "communal nationalism" or Multiculturalism where there can be symbols of meaning to every group. The modern state is completely artificial so we need the system to allow for cultural differences but also to create intersecting spaces in which all can express pride in belonging. 

Doh is de most eloquent writing meh see yasuh foh months. 

Django posted:

 

The country miseries started,when politicians wanted self government,racism was exacerbated, the quagmire continues,politicians used race based tactics to achieve power.

The power is in the people to change that,can they do it,yes they can.

Will they do it,we will have to wait and see.

I am done with this issue,no more resurrection of these old events,a lot of folks can learn a thing or two.

The country's ethnic angst started when the BGEIA wanted to bring in hordes of immigrants from India to impact Guyana's politics.  

When Burnham left the PPP he left with several Indians.  Burnham knew full well that he could not win an election based only on the black vote.  

In the 1957 election apan jhat became the cry. What did Cheddi do to quell that. Note that in the "winner take all" system of that election and 1961 the demographics of Guyana guaranteed a PPP victory. Not only were Indians the largest group, but they were also the largest group in most of the seats.  

The BGEIA began the whole notion of apan jhat with their ill conceived colonial scheme.  You will note that this plan occurred a scant 33 years before the first race based election.

Also some history for you.  When the PPP expelled Burnham they also expelled Dr. Latchmansingh, and Jai Narine Singh.  Latchmansingh became the chairman of Burnham's new party and Narine Singh the secretary.

So Burnham did NOT start the ethnic split because he had NO INCENTIVE TO DO SO!

So please conjecture what entity introduced the notion of ethnic voting into the PPP.

Django posted:

Quite a piece there Seignet,

I doan hate my people,for that matter no other people.We all know the era and what caused our polarization,we need to revert back to the harmony that was there in the 19 th century.

The plantation owners used our ancestors,to undermine the then present day labor force,they recruit them from the eastern land of the northern Atlantic Ocean,treated them as lesser mortals,housed them in unsanitary conditions,they gave them water to drink,the common source for life,that was unfit for lower animals. Their death rates were higher in the Caribbean.That's what they had to embrace for survival,we survived their off springs are all over the world.

My view is let bygones be bygones,start a new page,cast out the hatemongers.Make the Country a better place for all the citizens.There is enough land and resources for all to benefit.

That my hope for the Country of my birth.

Doh dream over. Is coolie foh coolie and blackman foh blackman. 2011 and 2015 and 1992 never happen. Hey hey hey...PPP likely go win in 2020 and den dem will get wan rude wake up when dem get overthrow. Hey hey hey...no way dem tiefman will get foh run kuntry in peace. Dem blackman want tief too. Not only coolie gat right foh tief...hey hey hey...

Suh Guyana is all about thief ? 

Dem PNC tried to overthrow the PPP once and they got shyttings. Like dem want a repeat ?

Labba

yuh really talk some nonsense

D2 posted:

caribny posted:

 The holding of our state as an ethnic prize is not merely an Indian aspiration for which they are to be blamed. It is also an African aspiration and our failure to address this is our mutual sin. 

 

Firstly comparing ethnic construction among peoples of African descent in Guyana and the USA is irrelevant.  Ethnic construction among these groups in the Americas has always been in response to external factors.

Michael Manley summed it up best when he states that in the USA he would be "black", In Jamaica he is considered "light brown" and in Brazil he would be "white", especially when consideration is made of the high social status to which he was born.

It is only in the USA where an ancestral definition of who is "black" is used.  In the rest of the Americas it is based on a combination of physical appearance, personal attitudes towards wanting to be connected to Africa (invariably negative outside of a small intellectual group) and social class, and self identification.

In Guyana there are 3 descriptors for people who are considered "black".  There is "African", "Black" and "Negro".   Given the high level of miscegenation amongst peoples with some degree of African ancestry, there is also the "mixed" category.  No one in Guyana can say with definition who in Guyana is "mixed" and who isnt.  We cannot even agree as to what we should be called. I bet that using "African", "black" and "Negro" might have different results.

So even within the context of Guyana people with varying degrees of African ancestry aren't a "tribal" group in the way that those who self identify as "Indian" are.  There are definite boundaries based on ethnicity and culture as to who is, or isnt "Indian".  The same does not apply for black Guyanese, because unlike the USA the "one drop rule" never applied.  The closer one was to being "white" in appearance and "European" in culture the better one was treated.  Clearly this created divisions among those with varying degrees of African ancestry.

So attempts to equate "African" identities with those of the Indian are not accurate. Let us be honest, outside of the intellectual class and those in groups like the ACDA how many people refer to themselves as "African" or have any interest in bonding with that continent aside from Emancipation Day?

This is why Eric will fail in his quest, as to his chagrin I doubt that he has much support from the broad swath of Afro Guyanese aside from a desire to be protected against the exclusionary tactics of the Indian elites.  But then they have similar fears of the "African" elites as well.   Do you think that most working class blacks in G/T consider the current mayor to be part of their "tribe"?

Ray posted:

Labba

yuh really talk some nonsense

Woh specific is nansense? 

caribny posted:

D2 posted:

caribny posted:

 The holding of our state as an ethnic prize is not merely an Indian aspiration for which they are to be blamed. It is also an African aspiration and our failure to address this is our mutual sin. 

 

This is why Eric will fail in his quest, as to his chagrin I doubt that he has much support from the broad swath of Afro Guyanese aside from a desire to be protected against the exclusionary tactics of the Indian elites.  But then they have similar fears of the "African" elites as well.   Do you think that most working class blacks in G/T consider the current mayor to be part of their "tribe"?

Meh doan know if dem see she as part of dem tribe. But de fact show dem sure does vote foh she. Hey hey hey...

yuji22 posted:

Suh Guyana is all about thief ? 

Dem PNC tried to overthrow the PPP once and they got shyttings. Like dem want a repeat ?

Oh ayoo gat TT mercenary and dem columbia mercenary? Hey hey hey...

caribny posted:

Django posted:

 

The country miseries started,when politicians wanted self government,racism was exacerbated, the quagmire continues,politicians used race based tactics to achieve power.

The power is in the people to change that,can they do it,yes they can.

Will they do it,we will have to wait and see.

I am done with this issue,no more resurrection of these old events,a lot of folks can learn a thing or two.

The BGEIA began the whole notion of apan jhat with their ill conceived colonial scheme.  You will note that this plan occurred a scant 33 years before the first race based election.

Also some history for you.  When the PPP expelled Burnham they also expelled Dr. Latchmansingh, and Jai Narine Singh.  Latchmansingh became the chairman of Burnham's new party and Narine Singh the secretary.

So Burnham did NOT start the ethnic split because he had NO INCENTIVE TO DO SO!

So please conjecture what entity introduced the notion of ethnic voting into the PPP.

 

Bhai Carib,i am aware of the PPP split and which Indian followed Burnham,Africans also stayed with the PPP.

Politics are dirty,Politicians use devious ways to get voters on side,the race card was played,the rest is recent history.

Django posted:

 

My view is let bygones be bygones,start a new page,

That my hope for the Country of my birth.

Sorry, the entirety of black people in Guyana were punished under the PPP because they were "Burnham people".  People who came of age after Burnham died were told " is not Burnham time now" when they wanted jobs or to be promoted. 

So along came 2015 and many rejoiced that "The Slow Holocaust is over and I can finally now feel like a Guyanese".  Young blacks rejoiced the Burnham era because they had a mythology that in that time blacks were treated with respect, unlike what happened under Jagdeo and Ramotar.

Until you are willing to engage in this there will be now bygones be bygones, because we have been pounded with the narrative of the black savage who spends all day beating up Indians.

When we see Indians admitting to their role in our ethnic mess as indeed many blacks have already done then we can let bygones be bygones. Even Trotman suggested that maybe the PNC ought to apologize. Walter Rodney and David Hinds risked their lives under an African regime and spoke outwardly of the anti Indian racism of that era. Andaiye and many others have done the same as did Eusi. When they did so I don't recall seeing hordes of blacks calling them traitors.

From Indians......SILENCE. Even when Ravi Dev, Ryhaan Shah and Bharat Jagdeo encourage blatant anti black sentiments.

Carib with his racist Shyte again at GNI. It is stinking up the place.

I wonder if Ray sees it ?