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Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Tola:
Originally Posted by Bibi Haniffa:
Originally Posted by baseman:

Jagdeo should remain head of the PPP but let new blood run for head of Govt.  This new leaders need to be charismatic and be able to communicate well, both attributes of Jagdeo.

Yes to this.  Jagdeo wins the charisma prize.  He doesn't buckle under pressure.  It's a shame that the PNC dragged his character into the gutter.  And this man is the most loyal PPP member of the party.

 

JAGDEO'S CHARACTER IS THE GUTTER. 

 

Jagdeo might be a loyal PPP member,[similar to hundreds of others] but you should visit R6 under his trained loyalists Mutt and Jeff.  To see the devastation, those now in the CC, as key people to maintain Jagdeo as PPP leader.  Did to the youth and women, that might take decades to reverse.

It looks like he Papa na teach him any manners and as leader of a country, he is a failure, who contributed to people's immorality.

 

Jagdeo got the CC around his little finger.  Who in the PPP got any balls to question his leadership, or to replace him ?  Ramotar or Rohee ?  

Who often contradict each other with their own statement ?     

Very simplistic and self serving.

 

BJ is one of the better leaders in Guyana, though not perfect, but who is, maybe only you.

 

The moral decay in Guyana has little to do with BJ or the PPP.  Had they taken some draconian measures, they you all would say something else.  I happen to have migrated prior to the PPP and met many Guyanese in NY and other places.  I was actually surprised at what was deemed as "normal", from music, drinking to sporting among the Indian diaspora, men and woman.  This behavior and attitude was imported back to Guyana, the barrel mentality took hold, the broken family became the norm, mother/father away, younger kids left with older kids, kids left with relatives, etc.

 

The moral decay in Guyana, especially among certain groups of Indians went deeper and beyond the PPP.  I saw myself, several close-knit families in Guyana and what happened when they flew apart.

 

Blaming BJ for the morality of some Indians in Guyana is like blaming Burnham for duglarization, even what occurred before he was even born.

If this situation existed during the PPP  term in office, as you describe, did the PPP not know about it and as a government, not had a responsibility to resolve it.  

Continue blaming a previous  government, will not automatically resolve issues, that you seem to do so well.  

 

In our experience, Jagdeo and his gang not only did very  little to resolve the moral issues, they contributed to making it worse.

 

Officials in R6 were just as vulgar, nasty and vindictive as he is. They benefitted from the decay, that leave  a situation that is destroying the young people.

 

There is a perception, no matter how much reality of Jagdeo is displayed.  In your mind  Jagdeo will remain the best thing since.... But the evidence is there to show the moral decay, that the PPP did nothing to resolve, but contributed to it.

 

The Berbice evidence exists, if only the victims were not so scared to go public,due to victimization and  fear, all dem rass would be in jail.

 

Now grow some ....s and answer Kari questions above.     

Tola
Last edited by Tola
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

FM
Originally Posted by Tola:
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Tola:
Originally Posted by Bibi Haniffa:
Originally Posted by baseman:

Jagdeo should remain head of the PPP but let new blood run for head of Govt.  This new leaders need to be charismatic and be able to communicate well, both attributes of Jagdeo.

Yes to this.  Jagdeo wins the charisma prize.  He doesn't buckle under pressure.  It's a shame that the PNC dragged his character into the gutter.  And this man is the most loyal PPP member of the party.

 

JAGDEO'S CHARACTER IS THE GUTTER. 

 

Jagdeo might be a loyal PPP member,[similar to hundreds of others] but you should visit R6 under his trained loyalists Mutt and Jeff.  To see the devastation, those now in the CC, as key people to maintain Jagdeo as PPP leader.  Did to the youth and women, that might take decades to reverse.

It looks like he Papa na teach him any manners and as leader of a country, he is a failure, who contributed to people's immorality.

 

Jagdeo got the CC around his little finger.  Who in the PPP got any balls to question his leadership, or to replace him ?  Ramotar or Rohee ?  

Who often contradict each other with their own statement ?     

Very simplistic and self serving.

 

BJ is one of the better leaders in Guyana, though not perfect, but who is, maybe only you.

 

The moral decay in Guyana has little to do with BJ or the PPP.  Had they taken some draconian measures, they you all would say something else.  I happen to have migrated prior to the PPP and met many Guyanese in NY and other places.  I was actually surprised at what was deemed as "normal", from music, drinking to sporting among the Indian diaspora, men and woman.  This behavior and attitude was imported back to Guyana, the barrel mentality took hold, the broken family became the norm, mother/father away, younger kids left with older kids, kids left with relatives, etc.

 

The moral decay in Guyana, especially among certain groups of Indians went deeper and beyond the PPP.  I saw myself, several close-knit families in Guyana and what happened when they flew apart.

 

Blaming BJ for the morality of some Indians in Guyana is like blaming Burnham for duglarization, even what occurred before he was even born.

If this situation existed during the PPP  term in office, as you describe, did the PPP not know about it and as a government, not had a responsibility to resolve it.  

Continue blaming a previous  government, will not automatically resolve issues, that you seem to do so well.  

 

In our experience, Jagdeo and his gang not only did very  little to resolve the moral issues, they contributed to making it worse.

 

Officials in R6 were just as vulgar, nasty and vindictive as he is. They benefitted from the decay, that leave  a situation that is destroying the young people.

 

There is a perception, no matter how much reality of Jagdeo is displayed.  In your mind  Jagdeo will remain the best thing since.... But the evidence is there to show the moral decay, that the PPP did nothing to resolve, but contributed to it.

 

The Berbice evidence exists, if only the victims were not so scared to go public,due to victimization and  fear, all dem rass would be in jail.

 

Now grow some ....s and answer Kari questions above.     

The moral decay in Guyana existed way before the PPP.  Let's not pretend, a lot of shyte happened well before the PPP and don't even blame the PNC either.    So what should the Govt do, write rules on vice and implement a vice brigade.  You people are fools to think the Govt can control everything.  Even the PNC could not control their flock lest they be accused of heavy handedness.  This comes down to the people, their values and civic institutions to control.

 

Who made it worse are the relatives here who doled out remittances without conditions promoting a culture of dependency and lack of values.

 

Alyuh gon grow old and get a heart attack worrying with BJ.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

You've actually answered an unspoken question - why is the PNC a Blackman-only party? You see caribny, you can lead the horse to the trough but you cyant mek it drink. Cheddi, after 1955 could bend over backwards for Blacks and if they stayed away it's because of what the other guy did -and Burnham made hay with the race thingie. Janet, whom Blacks think of as their destroyer did not have that type of clout to steer the Cheddi PPP to the indo-centric ways you describe. Leave that for the post-Cheddi Party which collapsed when a lot of true PPP-ites left one by one beginning with Ramjhattan.

Kari
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

You've actually answered an unspoken question - why is the PNC a Blackman-only party? You see caribny, you can lead the horse to the trough but you cyant mek it drink. Cheddi, after 1955 could bend over backwards for Blacks and if they stayed away it's because of what the other guy did -and Burnham made hay with the race thingie. Janet, whom Blacks think of as their destroyer did not have that type of clout to steer the Cheddi PPP to the indo-centric ways you describe. Leave that for the post-Cheddi Party which collapsed when a lot of true PPP-ites left one by one beginning with Ramjhattan.

Ramjattan was never a true PPP-ite.  He was always there for personal gain.  

Bibi Haniffa
Originally Posted by Bibi Haniffa:
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

You've actually answered an unspoken question - why is the PNC a Blackman-only party? You see caribny, you can lead the horse to the trough but you cyant mek it drink. Cheddi, after 1955 could bend over backwards for Blacks and if they stayed away it's because of what the other guy did -and Burnham made hay with the race thingie. Janet, whom Blacks think of as their destroyer did not have that type of clout to steer the Cheddi PPP to the indo-centric ways you describe. Leave that for the post-Cheddi Party which collapsed when a lot of true PPP-ites left one by one beginning with Ramjhattan.

Ramjattan was never a true PPP-ite.  He was always there for personal gain.  

Like Nandalall and Jagdeo. I see you running away from Kari question.

Mitwah
Originally Posted by Kari:

baseman, why is Guyana still exporting raw logs and not treated timber with value-added? The great Jagdeo had lots of time to be transformative.

Guyana has been exporting many raw products to have it processed abroad mainly due to the costs of power.  This has been a problem for many many many years, thus the quest for Hydro power way back in the PNC days.  Back then it was blocked by external forces and more recently by internal forces, i.e. YOUR PNC/AFC obstructionist axis of wutlissniss!

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Kari:

baseman, why is Guyana still exporting raw logs and not treated timber with value-added? The great Jagdeo had lots of time to be transformative.

Guyana has been exporting many raw products to have it processed abroad mainly due to the costs of power.  This has been a problem for many many many years, thus the quest for Hydro power way back in the PNC days.  Back then it was blocked by external forces and more recently by internal forces, i.e. YOUR PNC/AFC obstructionist axis of wutlissniss!

You obviously do not understand processing of logs. What's the Jagdeo record of collaboration with foreign capital to get a kiln to treat timber with value-added before exporting? Explain.

 

Also touch on the fundamentals of the productive and export sectors in Guyana and see how different we are from the 1970s when we took over sugar and bauxite. Rice is largely private sector, but let's examine reforms and infrastructure developments that would make it efficient and our great efforts at marketing. Where's our light manufacturing free trade zones and fiscal infrastructure and education and training subsidies to grow this sector under Jagdeo?

Kari
Originally Posted by Mitwah:
Originally Posted by Bibi Haniffa:
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

You've actually answered an unspoken question - why is the PNC a Blackman-only party? You see caribny, you can lead the horse to the trough but you cyant mek it drink. Cheddi, after 1955 could bend over backwards for Blacks and if they stayed away it's because of what the other guy did -and Burnham made hay with the race thingie. Janet, whom Blacks think of as their destroyer did not have that type of clout to steer the Cheddi PPP to the indo-centric ways you describe. Leave that for the post-Cheddi Party which collapsed when a lot of true PPP-ites left one by one beginning with Ramjhattan.

Ramjattan was never a true PPP-ite.  He was always there for personal gain.  

Like Nandalall and Jagdeo. I see you running away from Kari question.

Mits, up to 1992 the lawyer Ramjattan could not have been in the PPP for personal gain because the PPP was in opposition and didn't have a thing of value to offer him. I knew that Khemraj Ramjattan enhanced the PYO prestige at a time when Rohan Singh was First Secretary. I also know that Khemraj's father gave years of devoted service to the PPP voluntarily and that he himself financed Khemraj's law studies.

FM
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

You've actually answered an unspoken question - why is the PNC a Blackman-only party? You see caribny, you can lead the horse to the trough but you cyant mek it drink. Cheddi, after 1955 could bend over backwards for Blacks and if they stayed away it's because of what the other guy did -and Burnham made hay with the race thingie. Janet, whom Blacks think of as their destroyer did not have that type of clout to steer the Cheddi PPP to the indo-centric ways you describe. Leave that for the post-Cheddi Party which collapsed when a lot of true PPP-ites left one by one beginning with Ramjhattan.

 

 

When you chat about Cheddi bending over backwards for black man, you reduce yourself to the Indo KKK rantings cobra, rama, or yuji.

 

If I can be intelligent enough to understand why Indians NEVER followed Burnham, then you also should be intelligent enough to know why the PPP lost its blacks support, when more conservative groups like the BGEIA, began to become very influential.

 

Your rantings merely reveal how IGNORANT you are in understanding the Afro Guyanese perspective. Or maybe you just don't think that it is important. 

 

1.  Why did rural blacks, who trusted Eusi and who did NOT trust Burnham, leave the PPP.  Eusi left as he saw that it was no longer a working class party, but had morphed into an Indo party.

 

2.  Please don't be the class jackass by not admitting that when the call went out for apan jhat, that Cheddi did NOTHING to disavow this,  Even though this call came from conservative elements within the Indian population, who clearly were hostile to the PPPs self avowed Marxist orientation.

 

3. When the PPP won in 1961 Eusi reports that the PPP victory caravan of vehicles drove up the East Coast, and when they passed through black villagers racist obscenities were screamed.  In fact a black woman who (at that time) supported the PPP, because she liked Jagan, was loudly abused by these people.  THIS set the stage for the racialization of Guyanese politics, as the few blacks left in the PPP, so no more room for them.

 

So quit your nonsense that blacks are the only ones to blame for racial polarization in Guyana.  The stench from this nonsense is INSULTING.

 

 

BOTH groups have their ethnic insecurities which has led to both parties fostering this distrust. Cheddi and Burnham (in the 1961 election) were EQUALLY to blame.

 

BTW you do know that when Burnham left he took several Indians with him.  Latchmansingh and Jai Narine Singh were VERY important in the Burnhamist faction and left with Burnham.

 

Eusi left in 1957 when he saw racist elements infiltrate the PPP.

 

SOURCE:  Guyana Story (yes a PPP man wrote this).

FM
Last edited by Former Member

And to claim that Janet lacked clout is pure nonsense. She was the brains behind the PPP, and Cheddi was a hen pecked man.

 

Janet is an abusive woman, and was insulted that blacks didn't worship her as indeed rural Indo peasants did.  She developed a personal animosity towards blacks, and that was very apparent in the 1961-64 period when she sought to squeeze out the black middle class.

 

So carry your "bad black man, good Indo" back to the Indo KKK.

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by Mitwah:
Originally Posted by Bibi Haniffa:
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:

. That PPP genuinely tried to be inclusive of all races in the working class

What year was that? 1953, because the PPP in government, from 61-64 was definitely NOT racially inclusive. 

 

You will have to explain why they lost all the black support which they had, even AFTER the 1955 split to support your view of inclusion.  Eusi, who never trusted Burnham, and remained in the PPP after the split, left when he saw that it had morphed into an Indocentric party.

You've actually answered an unspoken question - why is the PNC a Blackman-only party? You see caribny, you can lead the horse to the trough but you cyant mek it drink. Cheddi, after 1955 could bend over backwards for Blacks and if they stayed away it's because of what the other guy did -and Burnham made hay with the race thingie. Janet, whom Blacks think of as their destroyer did not have that type of clout to steer the Cheddi PPP to the indo-centric ways you describe. Leave that for the post-Cheddi Party which collapsed when a lot of true PPP-ites left one by one beginning with Ramjhattan.

Ramjattan was never a true PPP-ite.  He was always there for personal gain.  

Like Nandalall and Jagdeo. I see you running away from Kari question.

Mits, up to 1992 the lawyer Ramjattan could not have been in the PPP for personal gain because the PPP was in opposition and didn't have a thing of value to offer him. I knew that Khemraj Ramjattan enhanced the PYO prestige at a time when Rohan Singh was First Secretary. I also know that Khemraj's father gave years of devoted service to the PPP voluntarily and that he himself financed Khemraj's law studies.

Khemraj is making a big sacrifice. His lucrative law practice brought him far more earnings that his current  pay cheque and perks as a minister.

Mitwah
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Bibi Haniffa:

They are afraid of him.  They had to use what they know best to try to bring him down - telling dirty lies!

Clearly they are afraid of him.  It's telling with the amount of time and effort they spend demonizing him.  Just look at the board, and add that the rejects, man it's telling.

Lol! Skitzo monologue. partybananapartybanana

Mitwah

caribny, you're a real sk0nt. BGEIA and other urban Indian associations do not represent the multi-varied Indo population.

 

The East Indians were politically divided in some ways by economic class, urban/rural divide, and religion (Hindu/Muslim). The Indian population in Guyana is not a monolithic entity when it comes to politics and racial attitudes towards the Black man. So quit your sh1t about Indo-KKK and Blackman bad intonation. You're piling racism upon racism, for what? You're just a mindless idi0t.

Kari
Originally Posted by Kari:

caribny, you're a real sk0nt. BGEIA and other urban Indian associations do not represent the multi-varied Indo population.

 

The East Indians were politically divided in some ways by economic class, urban/rural divide, and religion (Hindu/Muslim). The Indian population in Guyana is not a monolithic entity when it comes to politics and racial attitudes towards the Black man. So quit your sh1t about Indo-KKK and Blackman bad intonation. You're piling racism upon racism, for what? You're just a mindless idi0t.

Kari you continue to make anti black points and then descend into hysteria when you are exposed.

 

1.  You demanded that the PNC apologizes to Indians.  You didn't say to Guyanese, the vast majority of whom suffered as Burnham destroyed the country.  You didn't suggest that the PNC also had a right to point out how destructive the PPP was to ethnic relations in Guyana, even as it apologized.

 

2. You scream that Cheddi bent over for blacks, so it is only racist blacks who refused to support him.  They didn't have any reason, notably the fact that expecting them to trust an Indo led party is pure lunacy.

 

You do NOT ask yourself why blacks thought that the Jagan led PPP was considered a threat by them.  You don't consider whether the THREE main factions of blacks (the urban black middle class, the urban black working class, or the rural black working/peasant class ALL refused to support the PPP).

 

Kari why did these 3 black factions, ALL having antipathy to each other maybe as deep as each have towards Indians, ALL agree that the PPP was racist and anti black?

 

3.  Even as you suggest a black monolith you scream and cry at any suggestion that the various factions of the Indian population ALL scream "black man bad, Indo good". 

 

Aside from a few people like TK, I do NOT see ANY objective analysis from any of the various Indian factions on GNI, certainly NOT from you.  And yes YOU scream that "black man bad, Indo good" because in EVERY post that you make on this topic you ONLY BLAME BLACKS!  Just like 90% of the Indians on GNI.  You, baseman, jalil, cobra, yuji, etc.

 

Yes factions connected to BGEIA screamed apan jhat, and the PPP adopted it, as they knew that a galvanized Indian base GUARANTEED them victory on any free and fair election, given the Indo majority which existed until recently.

 

WHICH faction of the Indian population screamed in opposition to apan jhat?  And yes the WPA screamed its opposition to an African dictatorship, its racism to Indians, and of the fact that it was enabled by anti Indian sentiments among ordinary Africans!

 

Until you offer an analysis which answers why blacks were 95% opposed to the PPP after 1961  you are no better than cobra and company. Because suggesting that blacks ought to blindly support an Indian led party, who saw them only as objects or exclusion, or for charity is an INSULT! 

 

Its the very Jagan who in 1994 claimed that blacks were at the bottom, only reversing when he was made to apologize.  And then claiming that he was misquoted, when his very mission was to create a sense of hopelessness among Afro Guyanese, to blunt any notion of resisting the coming PPP exclusion of them.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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