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FM
Former Member

Professor Clive Thomas has given more details on the proposed policy of cash transfers (CTs) showing that they would be affordable and would deliver significant economic and social benefits to working class households.

“The Buxton Proposal” is named after comments Thomas made last year in the same East Coast village that ignited a debate about how best to distribute the oil wealth Guyana will reap in the next decade. And he was quick to point out that for the scheme to be effective it would need to reach almost all households so as to address concerns it favoured one strata of society or ethnic group. The coalition government has been lukewarm to the idea with the President yet to take a position, although the Alliance for Change (AFC) has declared its support for conditional cash transfers.

 

Speaking at a well-attended symposium at the Critchlow Labour College, Thomas urged the audience to support the Working People’s Alliance (WPA) in making cash transfers  “a central theme of these upcoming elections”. Fellow panelist trade unionist Lincoln Lewis also said it was one idea he certainly would get behind. WPA member David Hinds noted that whenever the party visited depressed communities a main topic of  interest was cash transfers or “The $1M Initiative” as it was dubbed.  

Hinds said it was the first time in Guyana’s post-colonial history that the country would have such substantial resources to make a big difference in the structural problem of poverty inherited from colonialism and slavery that were also policies. As such he saw cash transfers  as a policy aimed at poverty alleviation and one that came from “deep historical places” within the WPA’s struggle for the working class. He also took offence at the use of the word “handouts” to describe such transfers. That, he said, more applied to politicians giving out kites and hampers at special times of the year. This was about caring for the welfare of the people – the primary duty of any government. But he also added that governments can gain wider legitimacy from such schemes as all would benefit regardless of any ethnic divide.  

Professor Thomas said such a scheme “could remove the curse that has bedeviled Guyana since the days of slavery.” But for them to work they must be reliable, predictable, rules based and include almost all households with few exceptions. Naturally the households that would benefit most would be poorer ones who through the safety net of CTs would be freed from uncertainty brought on by fluctuating incomes and consumption levels.

He was scathing of the critics of his proposal, many of who come from a business class, quite happy to receive similar transfers in the forms of subsidies or tax breaks. He said only when such transfers were proposed for poor people it was said they encouraged dependency and unemployment.  And he laughed at the notion from many in the elite that poor people would stop working for $1m per year: “They genuinely believe that!”  

As to its affordability even paying $1M to the estimated 210,000 Guyanese households every year for a total cost of US$1.05B, Thomas calculated it was manageable in the long term and any scheme would be limited to 10% of total government revenues from oil. But he warned that it would take several years to implement properly and was dependent on oil production being over 1.5M barrels per day – a level not likely until later in the coming decade.

 

Thomas said he did not have an opinion on whether such transfers should be conditional even as Hinds noted that several studies showed that when linked to school attendance and health checkups for minors there had been dramatic improvements.  

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These mother fkers have no plans how to create employment using revenues if any from the oil... but one of distributing FREE money.

Black people will be misguided by this false hope and hell will break loose when there is no free money. 

 

FM
Dave posted:

These mother fkers have no plans how to create employment using revenues if any from the oil... but one of distributing FREE money.

Black people will be misguided by this false hope and hell will break loose when there is no free money. 

Stupid short-term people.  They should read the 10-15 year macro outlook for oil. Guyana has a short time to gain some wealth and invest in the country for future industries.  

If they want to eat drink and be merry, their kids will be left with white mouth. 

Baseman
Dave posted:

These mother fkers have no plans how to create employment using revenues if any from the oil... but one of distributing FREE money.

Black people will be misguided by this false hope and hell will break loose when there is no free money. 

 

Banna, why you all hyped up about this?

I am not comfortable with handouts to people, and this may very well be an election gimmick for the WPA.

1. However, if its structured right and done in a way to encourage people to use the money wisely, its all in the good...getting poor people access to resources.

2. THomas is not saying this would only go to Blacks. In fact, you cant include SOME poor people and exclude other POOR people. That means your poor Indo families and others will be entitled also. We have to see the criteria definition of being poor. So the poor fired Indo cane workers would be entitled.

3. Since most rich (and poor ones too) Indians are business inclined, they will survive without getting the benefit of the oil bonus. They are good businessmen and women, as you folks like to point out...they will survive...and continue to amass more wealth with their businesses.

So I suggest y’all take part in defining the criteria for being “poor” so that Indos and others are entitled and demand your fair share of the oil revenue...

V
VishMahabir posted:
Dave posted:

These mother fkers have no plans how to create employment using revenues if any from the oil... but one of distributing FREE money.

Black people will be misguided by this false hope and hell will break loose when there is no free money. 

 

Banna, why you all hyped up about this?

I am not comfortable with handouts to people, and this may very well be an election gimmick for the WPA.

1. However, if its structured right and done in a way to encourage people to use the money wisely, its all in the good...getting poor people access to resources.

2. THomas is not saying this would only go to Blacks. In fact, you cant include SOME poor people and exclude other POOR people. That means your poor Indo families and others will be entitled also. We have to see the criteria definition of being poor. So the poor fired Indo cane workers would be entitled.

3. Since most rich (and poor ones too) Indians are business inclined, they will survive without getting the benefit of the oil bonus. They are good businessmen and women, as you folks like to point out...they will survive...and continue to amass more wealth with their businesses.

So I suggest y’all take part in defining the criteria for being “poor” so that Indos and others are entitled and demand your fair share of the oil revenue...

If the coalition “wins” the 2020 election, this plan will become effective....AFC and WPA already supporting it...its a matter of convincing Granger. 

So instead of fighting a losing battle, y’all should try and have an educated input, and more, importantly, make sure its not not going to benefit some people and exclude others...

You know what they say about the lotto....”you got to be in it to win it....”

V

I like this approach. Split the money in three. 1. Everyone gets an oil cheque with part of the royalty money 2. part of the money goes into investment in society 3. Part of the money goes to an investment fund. Prashad of course is talking about the 50 percent Royalty payments that we will get when we have our own Independent sovereign country.

Prashad
Last edited by Prashad
Prashad posted:

I am still waiting for Thomas to start his watchman small business. Maybe he will take his oil cheque and start that watchman business.

By the time Guyana see any oil revenue, Thomas will be seeing his maker. Granger will be joining Forbes, Desmond and the rest of the PNC terror gang. He might be their watchman.

FM

Dave, you should have written the entire article on the heading. Why did you stop short? Coolie people in deep shit with Granger and you just want your cuss words to stand out. Those that ring bells are the least concern. True that?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Prashad posted:

I like this approach. Split the money in three. 1. Everyone gets an oil cheque with part of the royalty money 2. part of the money goes into investment in society 3. Part of the money goes to an investment fund. Prashad of course is talking about the 50 percent Royalty payments that we will get when we have our own Independent sovereign country.

Lol...banna, unless you planning on creating an independent Berbice, or such, you foolish.

V
VishMahabir posted:
Prashad posted:

I like this approach. Split the money in three. 1. Everyone gets an oil cheque with part of the royalty money 2. part of the money goes into investment in society 3. Part of the money goes to an investment fund. Prashad of course is talking about the 50 percent Royalty payments that we will get when we have our own Independent sovereign country.

Lol...banna, unless you planning on creating an independent Berbice, or such, you foolish.

Give the man a break. At least he can dream.

FM
Prince posted:

Dave, you should have written the entire article on the heading. Why did you stop short? Coolie people in deep shit with Granger and you just want your cuss words to stand out. Those that ring bells are the least concern. True that?

Dave is pizzed because he is one of those dual citizenship wealthy Indo living in NA, and no hope of cashing in on the oil wealth in the land of his ancestors....

V
VishMahabir posted:
ksazma posted:

What Thomas is saying and what he means are not necessarily the same thing. 

That’s because it is simply a plan...and a work in progress at this stage

We have been evaluating the PNC works in progress since the 60s and the word progress is a terrible one to use. 😀

FM
Last edited by Former Member
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Prashad posted:

I like this approach. Split the money in three. 1. Everyone gets an oil cheque with part of the royalty money 2. part of the money goes into investment in society 3. Part of the money goes to an investment fund. Prashad of course is talking about the 50 percent Royalty payments that we will get when we have our own Independent sovereign country.

Lol...banna, unless you planning on creating an independent Berbice, or such, you foolish.

Give the man a break. At least he can dream.

It may not be such a dream after all...if y’all people can’t fix this race thing and get along 

if I remember correctly, the last country to split was South Sudan from greater Sudan,

Previously, India and Pakistan, Panama from Columbia, etc.

V
VishMahabir posted:
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Prashad posted:

I like this approach. Split the money in three. 1. Everyone gets an oil cheque with part of the royalty money 2. part of the money goes into investment in society 3. Part of the money goes to an investment fund. Prashad of course is talking about the 50 percent Royalty payments that we will get when we have our own Independent sovereign country.

Lol...banna, unless you planning on creating an independent Berbice, or such, you foolish.

Give the man a break. At least he can dream.

It may not be such a dream after all...if y’all people can’t fix this race thing and get along 

if I remember correctly, the last country to split was South Sudan from greater Sudan,

Previously, India and Pakistan, Panama from Columbia, etc.

The problem with Guyana is the violent negroes think everything is entitled to them regardless who is in power. Coolies need to arm themselves as the negroes do. Only when the coolies show some fiah, blacks will behave themselves.

FM
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Prashad posted:

I like this approach. Split the money in three. 1. Everyone gets an oil cheque with part of the royalty money 2. part of the money goes into investment in society 3. Part of the money goes to an investment fund. Prashad of course is talking about the 50 percent Royalty payments that we will get when we have our own Independent sovereign country.

Lol...banna, unless you planning on creating an independent Berbice, or such, you foolish.

Give the man a break. At least he can dream.

It may not be such a dream after all...if y’all people can’t fix this race thing and get along 

if I remember correctly, the last country to split was South Sudan from greater Sudan,

Previously, India and Pakistan, Panama from Columbia, etc.

The problem with Guyana is the violent negroes think everything is entitled to them regardless who is in power. Coolies need to arm themselves as the negroes do. Only when the coolies show some fiah, blacks will behave themselves.

Suh...who stopping dem?

People have a right to self-defense....no?

V
Dave posted:

These mother fkers have no plans how to create employment using revenues if any from the oil... but one of distributing FREE money.

Black people will be misguided by this false hope and hell will break loose when there is no free money. 

 

Don't get worked up or worried about Thomas and Hinds , there is no agreement with their plan.

Django
Dave posted:

These mother fkers have no plans how to create employment using revenues if any from the oil... but one of distributing FREE money.

Black people will be misguided by this false hope and hell will break loose when there is no free money. 

 

Black people and Indians are similarly poor and destitute in our country. It is decidedly bigoted to say that only black people will be "spoiled" with cash hand outs. Lazy folks are abundant on both sides of the color spectrum. Just check on the bridge sitters, for example, on the courentyne. 

I do not agree with cash distribution in general.We need to build a strong social safety net first. Mothers and dependent children are to be covered first and then the elderly. Young people can wait.

Please quit the cussing. It does not improve your messaging,

FM
VishMahabir posted:
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Sudan from greater Sudan,

Previously, India and Pakistan, Panama from Columbia, etc.

The problem with Guyana is the violent negroes think everything is entitled to them regardless who is in power. Coolies need to arm themselves as the negroes do. Only when the coolies show some fiah, blacks will behave themselves.

Suh...who stopping dem?

People have a right to self-defense....no?

They are nonviolent people. They stopped living in the trees. 

FM
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Sudan from greater Sudan,

Previously, India and Pakistan, Panama from Columbia, etc.

The problem with Guyana is the violent negroes think everything is entitled to them regardless who is in power. Coolies need to arm themselves as the negroes do. Only when the coolies show some fiah, blacks will behave themselves.

Suh...who stopping dem?

People have a right to self-defense....no?

They are nonviolent people. They stopped living in the trees. 

Americans have a right to own guns (Amd 2). Many do. Even if they dont, they know how to defend themselves. They are not living on trees.

If Gandhi were alive, he will tell you that SATYAGRAHA, will only go so far, and that self-defense is a basic human right.

Any religion also teaches that action against “evil” is a necessary thing, rather than non action.

But simply saying that you are a nonviolent person is a cop out....this is a learned behavior, its not in your genes.

V
VishMahabir posted:
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
skeldon_man posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Sudan from greater Sudan,

Previously, India and Pakistan, Panama from Columbia, etc.

The problem with Guyana is the violent negroes think everything is entitled to them regardless who is in power. Coolies need to arm themselves as the negroes do. Only when the coolies show some fiah, blacks will behave themselves.

Suh...who stopping dem?

People have a right to self-defense....no?

They are nonviolent people. They stopped living in the trees. 

Americans have a right to own guns (Amd 2). Many do. Even if they dont, they know how to defend themselves. They are not living on trees.

If Gandhi were alive, he will tell you that SATYAGRAHA, will only go so far, and that self-defense is a basic human right.

Any religion also teaches that action against “evil” is a necessary thing, rather than non action.

But simply saying that you are a nonviolent person is a cop out....this is a learned behavior, its not in your genes.

So you think the coolies should get guns and kill the negroes in Guyana? Isn't this advocating civil war?

Me phambily live like warrias, so me still gat some warria mentality in me. Me gat guns and cutlasses but me nah dah kine ah peeple. Me want fuh see me unfortunate and expolited bruddas and sistas live in peace and get up in life.

FM
skeldon_man posted:
 

So you think the coolies should get guns and kill the negroes in Guyana? Isn't this advocating civil war?

Me phambily live like warrias, so me still gat some warria mentality in me. Me gat guns and cutlasses but me nah dah kine ah peeple.

Me want fuh see me unfortunate and expolited bruddas and sistas live in peace and get up in life.

You ketching sense !!!  I know you have some good qualities. All the people of Guyana shouldn't be exploited, all must be treated equally and get a piece of the pie.

Django
Last edited by Django
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
 

So you think the coolies should get guns and kill the negroes in Guyana? Isn't this advocating civil war?

Me phambily live like warrias, so me still gat some warria mentality in me. Me gat guns and cutlasses but me nah dah kine ah peeple.

Me want fuh see me unfortunate and expolited bruddas and sistas live in peace and get up in life.

You ketching sense !!!  I know you have some good qualities. All the people of Guyana shouldn't be exploited, all must be treated equally and get a piece of the pie.

I always advocate for the poor and exploited. It's nothing new.

FM

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