quote:

“The AFC argument then about the exceptional package that President Jagdeo will enjoy is thus shown to be invalid, particularly when the statutes, custom and practice applicable to former presidents are examined.

quote:

What is most astonishing is the AFC’s suggestion that putting a rules-base system in place to ensure transparency and minimise discretion in accessing pension and benefits is now characterised as reprehensible and unworthy.

Demerara_Guy, the AFC people are not serious about winning the upcoming elections. If they were, they would not be wasting scarce time and energy going after lame-duck President Jagdeo. With less than 27 days before voting, the AFC people should have been focusing their attack on Donald Ramotar. They should have been educating the electorate about what they perceive as flaws in the PPP/C manifesto. The AFC's campaign strategy will backfire. They will lose the elections. Watch and see.

Jagdeo’s Pension
OCTOBER 31, 2011 | BY KNEWS | FILED UNDER EDITORIAL

The Office of the President (OP) has responded to the claim made by Khemraj Ramjattan of the Alliance for Change (AFC) that President Jagdeo will be receiving a pension of $3 million per month. The release from OP dubbed Mr Ramjattan “a compulsive liar” and claimed in turn that Mr Jagdeo will actually be receiving, “about one-third of that amount” – meaning about $1 million per month. As best as we can verify, the statement from OP is technically correct – but only when the word “pension” is interpreted most narrowly and confine it to the monetary portion of the pension.

But this narrow definition is more notable for what it omits as what it states. There are sins of omission as well as sins of commission. First, we have to point out that the monetary payment is tax free: an ordinary citizen that earns that princely sum would have to part with $333,000 as taxes. Then we have to include the benefits as enumerated by the “Former Presidents (Benefits and Other Facilities) Act No. 12”, which was passed in the first quarter of 2009 – under Jagdeo’s watch, we should note. These all obviously have a monetary value.

First, there is the “payment of water, electricity and telephone bills”. With the massive open air swimming pool that has to be cleaned and emptied rather frequently, the lawn that has to be watered and the other uses for water, we can conservatively estimate the water bill to be about $50,000 monthly. Then there’s the electricity. Even when Amaila Falls come on stream, for a mansion the size of the Pradoville property, including the installed air conditioning and floodlights, we’re talking about another $300,000 monthly. Telephone bills for a man with Jagdeo’s international connections could easily run in another $100,000.

Next we move on to, “Services of personal and household staff including but not limited to an attendant and gardener”. Another $250,000 monthly? Remember he’ll need drivers for his vehicles – see below. What about “Services of an unspecified number of clerical and technical staff”? $400,000? “Free medical treatment or reimbursement of medical expenses incurred by the (Presidents) for their own treatment or treatment of dependents” can easily run us another $200,000 monthly, since we know that individuals like the President will not be going to GHPC.

We can chalk up another $200,000 for “Full-time personal security and services of the Presidential Guard Service at their place of residence”. But it is the “The provision of a (unspecified) number of motor vehicles owned and maintained by the State” that takes the cake. Jagdeo is used to moving around in Land Cruisers, Mercedes and BMW’s – and we note the plural nature of the “motor vehicles” to be made available. $500,000 monthly?
We’ve reached the additional $2 million that tops up the acknowledged $1 million cash payment to reach the claimed $3 million. And we have not even mentioned the “Annual vacation allowance equivalent to the cost of two first class return airfares”.

But with all the ostentatious demands on the public purse to the conservative estimate of $3 million per month, none displayed the mentality of Jagdeo more than this benefit he insisted on inserting into the legislation: “Toll free road transportation in Guyana”. After benefits amounting to $3 million monthly, he still cannot pay road tolls? Berbician cannot walk across the Berbice Bridge; they have been denied waiving of the toll for schoolchildren, but an individual with $3 million in his pockets every month, gets a free pass?

In this editorial we have not touched upon the crucial point that was sought to be established in the debate surrounding the President’s pension: the comparison of the Presidents benefits with those of an ordinary pensioner. The argument made is that Guyana, being a poor country, cannot afford more than $7500 monthly for the latter. So how do we justify $3 million monthly for the President? Surely we want our retired Presidents to live in dignity but is there no correlation with our means?

Source

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:

Demerara_Guy, the AFC people are not serious about winning the upcoming elections. If they were, they would not be wasting scarce time and energy going after lame-duck President Jagdeo.

With less than 27 days before voting, the AFC people should have been focusing their attack on Donald Ramotar.

They should have been educating the electorate about what they perceive as flaws in the PPP/C manifesto.

The AFC's campaign strategy will backfire. They will lose the elections. Watch and see.

Agreed Bookman.

It is quite unfortunate that at this crucial point in the election period, the AFC is still waffling and "placing people" with new titles plus interestingly, relegating long-standing individuals to lower preference on their election list.

As I have stated numerous times, the AFC "slept" for the pass three and a half years to now wake up to contest the election.

The AFC should have been working vigourously for the past four and a half years to effectively ..

1. Make its presence well know throughout Guyana.

2. Make its actions/activities beyond reproach.

My personal views are that the AFC would not do well at this election. They would have to revamp NOW - 2011 - to become an effective political entity for the 2016 elections.

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:

Demerara_Guy, the AFC people are not serious about winning the upcoming elections. If they were, they would not be wasting scarce time and energy going after lame-duck President Jagdeo.

With less than 27 days before voting, the AFC people should have been focusing their attack on Donald Ramotar.

They should have been educating the electorate about what they perceive as flaws in the PPP/C manifesto.

The AFC's campaign strategy will backfire. They will lose the elections. Watch and see.

Agreed Bookman.

It is quite unfortunate that at this crucial point in the election period, the AFC is still waffling and "placing people" with new titles plus interestingly, relegating long-standing individuals to lower preference on their election list.

As I have stated numerous times, the AFC "slept" for the pass three and a half years to now wake up to contest the election.

The AFC should have been working vigourously for the past four and a half years to effectively ..

1. Make its presence well know throughout Guyana.

2. Make its actions/activities beyond reproach.

My personal views are that the AFC would not do well at this election. They would have to revamp NOW - 2011 - to become an effective political entity for the 2016 elections.

Would both of you old farts apply to become their campaign manager, instead of boosting each other egos.

quote:

Originally posted by Tola:

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:

Demerara_Guy, the AFC people are not serious about winning the upcoming elections. If they were, they would not be wasting scarce time and energy going after lame-duck President Jagdeo.

With less than 27 days before voting, the AFC people should have been focusing their attack on Donald Ramotar.

They should have been educating the electorate about what they perceive as flaws in the PPP/C manifesto.

The AFC's campaign strategy will backfire. They will lose the elections. Watch and see.

Agreed Bookman.

It is quite unfortunate that at this crucial point in the election period, the AFC is still waffling and "placing people" with new titles plus interestingly, relegating long-standing individuals to lower preference on their election list.

As I have stated numerous times, the AFC "slept" for the pass three and a half years to now wake up to contest the election.

The AFC should have been working vigourously for the past four and a half years to effectively ..

1. Make its presence well know throughout Guyana.

2. Make its actions/activities beyond reproach.

My personal views are that the AFC would not do well at this election. They would have to revamp NOW - 2011 - to become an effective political entity for the 2016 elections.

Would both of you old farts apply to become their campaign manager, instead of boosting each other egos.

Tola, at 60 years I believe I'm younger than you.
Now, seriously, let me tell you how I see the scenario after November 28.
Moses will not be vice-president in an AFC government because AFC will lose. Sure about that.
AFC will increase its parliamentary strength by only one or two seats. The AFC's possible gain in Berbice will be offset by its loss in other areas to APNU aka PNC. Remember, in the 2006 elections AFC got mostly disenchanted PNC voters. Not this time.
So, who will get the AFC parliamentary seats? Ramjattan will get one. Trotman will get one. Nagamootoo will get one. Van-West Charles will get one. Sasenarine Singh will get one. Garrido-Lowe will get one, and so on.
I'm going to be sorry for my hardworking AFC comrade Gerhard Ramsaroop. There won't be a seat for him. They may offer him compensation by letting him fill the vacancy Peter Ramsaroop left, i.e., Chief Executive or something like that. Poor Gerhard.

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:

quote:

Originally posted by Tola:

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:

Demerara_Guy, the AFC people are not serious about winning the upcoming elections. If they were, they would not be wasting scarce time and energy going after lame-duck President Jagdeo.

With less than 27 days before voting, the AFC people should have been focusing their attack on Donald Ramotar.

They should have been educating the electorate about what they perceive as flaws in the PPP/C manifesto.

The AFC's campaign strategy will backfire. They will lose the elections. Watch and see.

Agreed Bookman.

It is quite unfortunate that at this crucial point in the election period, the AFC is still waffling and "placing people" with new titles plus interestingly, relegating long-standing individuals to lower preference on their election list.

As I have stated numerous times, the AFC "slept" for the pass three and a half years to now wake up to contest the election.

The AFC should have been working vigourously for the past four and a half years to effectively ..

1. Make its presence well know throughout Guyana.

2. Make its actions/activities beyond reproach.

My personal views are that the AFC would not do well at this election. They would have to revamp NOW - 2011 - to become an effective political entity for the 2016 elections.

Would both of you old farts apply to become their campaign manager, instead of boosting each other egos.

Tola, at 60 years I believe I'm younger than you.
Now, seriously, let me tell you how I see the scenario after November 28.
Moses will not be vice-president in an AFC government because AFC will lose. Sure about that.
AFC will increase its parliamentary strength by only one or two seats. The AFC's possible gain in Berbice will be offset by its loss in other areas to APNU aka PNC. Remember, in the 2006 elections AFC got mostly disenchanted PNC voters. Not this time.
So, who will get the AFC parliamentary seats? Ramjattan will get one. Trotman will get one. Nagamootoo will get one. Van-West Charles will get one. Sasenarine Singh will get one. Garrido-Lowe will get one, and so on.
I'm going to be sorry for my hardworking AFC comrade Gerhard Ramsaroop. There won't be a seat for him. They may offer him compensation by letting him fill the vacancy Peter Ramsaroop left, i.e., Chief Executive or something like that. Poor Gerhard.

Cde Bookman, I haven't said anything when you put me in your list of defectors, when you placed me with persons devoid of principle. But one thing I will say to you, is that no one can ever say that my politics was about gaining a position. I have never been a career politician and have always had a full private life. It is not about winning a fight that is important to me, it is what and how you fight. This time around I know my work will produce much greater results than in 2006, which right now looks like a victory for the AFC as a minority Gov't. In that scenario, I will only serve if asked, and it must be in a position that I am confident of doing well. I will not be a square peg. Other than that, and no matter what else occurs, I will be most happy to get back to my farms, doing what I have loved since as a child, while remaining active politically as well - the fight never ends

Are we that naieve to believe the AFC will be a corruption-free gov't should the win the elections and form the next gov't??
Ha Ha! People ain't stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:
AFC deliberate misinformation on President Jagdeo’s pension continues ... even though conceding that clarifications by OP are ‘technically correct’

Written by
Tuesday, 01 November 2011 02:49
Source - Guyana Chronicle

THE Alliance For Change’s deliberate misinformation and inaccuracies in the media about President Jagdeo’s $3M a month pension continue, despite the AFC and the media conceding that the clarifications by Office of the President of their distortions are “technically correct”.

A statement from the Office of the President last night said, “The Office of the President’s clarifications and repudiation have exposed the AFC’s lies and deliberate misinformation about the President’s pension.

The statement went on:

“The AFC and the media continue on the same vein by now pretending that their claim about the $3M pension included the value of allowances and other benefits and to sustain their contention, these media ‘fanatics’ have offered estimations of the cost of these benefits and allowances, and not unsurprisingly, come back to their discredited $3M a month claim.

“What the AFC and the unrepentant media again failed to acknowledge is that the pension, allowances and benefits enjoyed by presidents are subject to statutes and discretion.

“Significantly, it is the comparative analysis of the pension, statutory benefits and allowances that matters the most.

“In that regard, these records would show the following irrefutable facts:

The predecessors of President Jagdeo were all entitled to the following benefits and this was in regard to ceremonial President Arthur Chung, and including Forbes Burnham, Desmond Hoyte, Cheddi and Janet Jagan:

1. Tax-free pension: enjoyed by all
2. Payment of utilities: enjoyed by all
3. Personal and household staff: enjoyed by all
4. Payment of medical treatment: enjoyed by all
5. Fulltime security at official place of residence: enjoyed by all
6. Annual vacation allowance equivalent to cost of two first-class return tickets: enjoyed by all, and
7. Toll-free road transportation in Guyana: enjoyed by all Members of Parliament

“The AFC argument then about the exceptional package that President Jagdeo will enjoy is thus shown to be invalid, particularly when the statutes, custom and practice applicable to former presidents are examined.

What is most astonishing is the AFC’s suggestion that putting a rules-base system in place to ensure transparency and minimise discretion in accessing pension and benefits is now characterised as reprehensible and unworthy.

“This flies in the face of public support for the earlier Fiscal Enactment Amendment Act 2004, where a similar rules-based system was put in place to make more transparent and accountable access to duty-free concessions on vehicles by public officials.

“These efforts of the AFC and like-minded sycophants to characterise the resort by the PPP/C Administration to rules-based entitlements of benefits and allowances, contradicts the AFC’s pronouncements on good-governance,” the statement concluded.

So I take it that Mrs Jagan got a $3 mill/month package? Meaning Pension + perks = $3 mill for JJ?

Gerhard writes:

quote:

Cde Bookman, I haven't said anything when you put me in your list of defectors, when you placed me with persons devoid of principle. But one thing I will say to you, is that no one can ever say that my politics was about gaining a position. I have never been a career politician and have always had a full private life. It is not about winning a fight that is important to me, it is what and how you fight. This time around I know my work will produce much greater results than in 2006, which right now looks like a victory for the AFC as a minority Gov't. In that scenario, I will only serve if asked, and it must be in a position that I am confident of doing well. I will not be a square peg. Other than that, and no matter what else occurs, I will be most happy to get back to my farms, doing what I have loved since as a child, while remaining active politically as well - the fight never ends

Gerhard, please rest assured I didn't mean to offend you personally. I simply made up a clinical list of PPP deserters.
The list is incomplete because I didn't remember all the deserters. After I posted the list, the names Malcolm Harripaul and HJM Hubbard came to mind.
Now, some deserters abandoned the PPP for opportunistic reasons. And some left out of conviction. I know you left out of conviction, Gerhard.
The main reason why I posted that list is to show that the PPP/C is a strong and mighty party that has withstood political bleeding throughout decades but still remains a healthy fighting force for good in Guyana. Truly, this I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
Are we that naieve to believe the AFC will be a corruption-free gov't should the win the elections and form the next gov't??
Ha Ha! People ain't stupid.

Absolutely. Since when smartness is defined in believing in corruption!

quote:

I'm going to be sorry for my hardworking AFC comrade Gerhard Ramsaroop. There won't be a seat for him. They may offer him compensation by letting him fill the vacancy Peter Ramsaroop left, i.e., Chief Executive or something like that. Poor Gerhard

Comrade Bookie...you didn't address this part in your response to GR The man aint asking for pity

quote:

Originally posted by raymond:

quote:

I'm going to be sorry for my hardworking AFC comrade Gerhard Ramsaroop. There won't be a seat for him. They may offer him compensation by letting him fill the vacancy Peter Ramsaroop left, i.e., Chief Executive or something like that. Poor Gerhard

Comrade Bookie...you didn't address this part in your response to GR The man aint asking for pity

Ooops...okay. While Gerhard is not in the fight for position or perks, he is human after all and would appreciate a parliamentary seat to make a bigger contribution to his cause. Will he get it? Let's wait and see.

Jagdeo pension package will not be $$$3 Million, it will be much MORE than $$3 Million/month.

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:
Demerara_Guy, the AFC people are not serious about winning the upcoming elections. If they were, they would not be wasting scarce time and energy going after lame-duck President Jagdeo. With less than 27 days before voting, the AFC people should have been focusing their attack on Donald Ramotar. They should have been educating the electorate about what they perceive as flaws in the PPP/C manifesto. The AFC's campaign strategy will backfire. They will lose the elections. Watch and see.

Why would highlighting perks exceeding even the offering to a US president not be a significant effort toward clarifying the difference between good practices and leach options?

Jagdeo to Ramotar is as Putin to Medvedev so highlighting the corruption of one is no different from the other. Further, why cannot one speak to perks a previous dictator assigned to himself?

Is this particular perk package the only rational thing Burnham has done? They are critical of every other thing he has done so this should not escape the purview of any ferreting out of excesses in the land.

quote:

Originally posted by Bookman:

quote:

Originally posted by raymond:

quote:

I'm going to be sorry for my hardworking AFC comrade Gerhard Ramsaroop. There won't be a seat for him. They may offer him compensation by letting him fill the vacancy Peter Ramsaroop left, i.e., Chief Executive or something like that. Poor Gerhard

Comrade Bookie...you didn't address this part in your response to GR The man aint asking for pity

Ooops...okay. While Gerhard is not in the fight for position or perks, he is human after all and would appreciate a parliamentary seat to make a bigger contribution to his cause. Will he get it? Let's wait and see.

Please don't try to bear any burden for me Cde Book, especially one that really, does not exist. While I do appreciate it, I always manage to make myself good regardless, so no need to worry for me my friend

quote:

The predecessors of President Jagdeo were all entitled to the following benefits and this was in regard to ceremonial President Arthur Chung, and including Forbes Burnham, Desmond Hoyte, Cheddi and Janet Jagan:

1. Tax-free pension: enjoyed by all
2. Payment of utilities: enjoyed by all
3. Personal and household staff: enjoyed by all
4. Payment of medical treatment: enjoyed by all
5. Fulltime security at official place of residence: enjoyed by all
6. Annual vacation allowance equivalent to cost of two first-class return tickets: enjoyed by all, and
7. Toll-free road transportation in Guyana: enjoyed by all Members of Parliament

“The AFC argument then about the exceptional package that President Jagdeo will enjoy is thus shown to be invalid, particularly when the statutes, custom and practice applicable to former presidents are examined.

If this is the case, would an AFC president, if elected, enjoy the same benefits?

Plain and simple: THE KFC is a bunch of LIARS, THIEVES and SLIMEBALLS!!!

Does ANYONE believe these SNAKEOIL SALESMEN would discontinue these benefits if Elected??? (IF as in IF shit had wings)

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
Does ANYONE believe these SNAKEOIL SALESMEN would discontinue these benefits if Elected??? (IF as in IF shit had wings)

Nehru let me ask you this...does the AFC have a large group of core supporters who will vote for us no matter what we say and do, like the PPP/PNC have? It is a simple yes or no question, by the way.

TI I would appreciate your answer as well.

I dont know about Large but every Party has a group of core supporters.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard Ramsaroop:

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
Does ANYONE believe these SNAKEOIL SALESMEN would discontinue these benefits if Elected??? (IF as in IF shit had wings)

Nehru let me ask you this...does the AFC have a large group of core supporters who will vote for us no matter what we say and do, like the PPP/PNC have? It is a simple yes or no question, by the way.

TI I would appreciate your answer as well.

GR, That tells a lot of your message. You are saying that your Party cannot and will NOT attract a large Group. That is PITTYFUL. You Guys are like empty Barrels, I dont have to explain that.

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
I dont know about Large but every Party has a group of core supporters.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard Ramsaroop:

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
Does ANYONE believe these SNAKEOIL SALESMEN would discontinue these benefits if Elected??? (IF as in IF shit had wings)

Nehru let me ask you this...does the AFC have a large group of core supporters who will vote for us no matter what we say and do, like the PPP/PNC have? It is a simple yes or no question, by the way.

TI I would appreciate your answer as well.

Yes or no, Nehru. Your playing games with the answer is plain to see. That Guyana's politics is largely guided by racial voting is well known and documented.

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
GR, That tells a lot of your message. You are saying that your Party cannot and will NOT attract a large Group. That is PITTYFUL. You Guys are like empty Barrels, I dont have to explain that.

Silly me for hoping for something sensible from you...sorry brother...it is all my fault for hoping.

Let the PPP show us the expenditures of past presidents as it comes to Pension and then show us what Jagdeo will claim day 1.

Isn't it that simple?

I disagree that this is about a lame duck Jagdeo Uncle Book this is about the PPP squandering tax payers money and pilfering it is a pattern of behavior.

For example.

Ramotar's son, works in office of the president - 75K USD per year.
Ramotar daughter - works for the govt.
Navin Chandarpal daughter - works for the govt.
Rohee's daughter - works for the govt.
Nokta son -works for the govt
Ramson pickney -works for the govt.
Joe Hamilton children -works for the govt.

You see the pattern here? these chaps are paying their families basically no show jobs.

This is wrong, when we can only afford to pay sugar workers a 5% raise and policemen and nurses teachers etc all suffering at 45K per month and Ramotar son is making 75K USD per year........ This is blatant stealing.

GR, With all due respect I said NO. Read my answer again. Your Party CANNOT attract a Large Group. What else you want me to say.

Did you say large group?

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
I dont know about Large but every Party has a group of core supporters.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard Ramsaroop:

quote:

Originally posted by Nehru:
Does ANYONE believe these SNAKEOIL SALESMEN would discontinue these benefits if Elected??? (IF as in IF shit had wings)

Nehru let me ask you this...does the AFC have a large group of core supporters who will vote for us no matter what we say and do, like the PPP/PNC have? It is a simple yes or no question, by the way.

TI I would appreciate your answer as well.

the afc have one month to go before the election,watch and see how the crowd will grow.the ppp will run for the hills

why cant the President live on 7500 a month like other pensioners in Guyana? why is he special is he not Guyanese like us?