Since the last one got derailed and since it dealt wit only one party; we should speak on both parties.
I think both are insular, ethnically divided and hegemonic, and at this point both are blind to their sins.
The worse part, their supporters are blind to the odium the represent to our state. One cannot call it a nation since that would be an error. We are two major tribal nations existing adversarially but sharing the space in the state.
We need ways to create a nation.
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Asking whether the PPP and PNC are insular parties is like asking whether Malcolm X was black. I agree they are insular and divided and politically we are like 2 tribes. The question is why. It is because each major race fears each other and for good reason. I acknowledge the racism aimed at Indians by Burnham's PNC for 28 years. Are the Indians posting here willing to acknowledge the racist policies of the PPP toward black folks, including the death squads? NO. And therein lies the problem.
This fear of each other began in colonial times. I'll give my perspective and you all are free to disagree with it. I'm willing to learn. Black people predated Indians in Guyana. Indians were brought as indentured labor to reduce the bargaining power of blacks freed from slavery. While Indians submitted to British rule, blacks were having their farms on the coast flooded and more.
Secondly, the disposition of Indians toward the Africans, where the African was seen as a sub human. This persists today. Examine the posts of Ugli, Nehru, Dave, Skeldon Man and other Indians posting here and you see it. In the 21st century, the Indian Admin Amral called a black woman a baboon and Demerara Guy followed it up with baboon pics. This is the Indian mindset toward black people in the 21st century. Can you imagine what it was at the genesis of this conflict?
Then came the BGEIA, an organization created by elite Indians for the sole purpose of flooding Guyana with Indians, increasing the majority and relegating the black man back to the slave status he fought to get out of. Yes, they wanted us to be slaves in a land we were brought to as captives, dug the canals, built the infrastructure and farmed the land. These Indians were telling us we had no place there and that it was Indian land. They wanted it ALL.
This continued into independence times, including the period when Burnham got wind of 'apna jaat' or something like that - the plan to subjugate black people. Blacks were (and still are) a minority back then. Facing a racist Indian mindset where they saw themselves as wards of the state and "owners" of Guyana, how were blacks to respond? Just cave in? Become slaves to indians again?
That is the genesis of it from the black side. I am not excusing or agreeing with Burnham's racism toward Indians, but understand the fear of black people losing their country. Then along comes PPP rule and 23 years of institutionalized racism. Bigots here like Nehru and Dave feel that black people should worship Jagdeo for some BBQ chicken and Banks beer!!!! Yes, that is the mindset of the racist Indian in Guyana who sees the entire country as THEIRS!!!!
I will not speak for Indians, other than to repeat what I stated before - they were victims of racism under Burnham's PNC. I get that. Hence their fear of black rule.
We cannot be a country unless this is addressed. It is my belief that the Indian mindset has not changed much. They are as racist and "entitled" as before. My 2 cents. And in this lil sandbox, the openly racist posters are Indians. Even down to the moderators who tolerate open bigotry and even join in it. This is what black people must accept in what is THEIR land too?
Until there is dialog, an acknowledgment of the racism on both sides, and an understanding of each other, we go nowhere. Oh, and let's not forget the constitution reform that removes winner takes all, and policies that disallow discrimination toward ANYONE!.
I agree with most of what you said above and the areas I do not agree with is for another venue. What you stated there affirms a long and tortuous history of tribalism that has been our lot for our entire history.
My title is insubstantial. I should have asked instead: "What are we to do given our lot as a divided nation that is maintained by the two tribal parties."
Burnham, for all his moral distribution, did try to magnify national symbols and craft slogans to bind us. Alas these failed as a summoning creed because he was so intent on being a dictator and that means having close confidants who were racists to maintain his regime.
We must think of what can be done to save ourselves. We cannot have villainous corruptions like Jagdeo or aloof pretend Jesus Grager rob us or neglect us so this divisive system is maintained for the benefit of the elites.
@Former Member
Yes, Burnham took a stab at nationhood. My recollection - Indians for the most part wanted no part of it. They even vilified the Indians who tried to promote Guyana as a nation.
Realizing the importance of minimizing debt, Burnham promoted FCH - feed, clothe, house the nation and emphasized the use of local products. Buy local, eat local, etc. Great ideas, but not executed properly. However, the intention was commendable. We see how the lack of such has devastated the nation. Today, every government is scrambling to set up local industry to no avail.
How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
BURNHAM WAS A DAAG!!!
I disagree with your views on the Admin
Ray posted:I disagree with your views on the Admin
You can disagree all you want, but you and Amral's fingerprints are all over the tolerance of open bigotry and hate on this site. Amral is actually a partaker in it, you just tolerant of it, aiding and abetting the promotion of bigotry. I do not want to discuss it here and detract from D2's thread.
Iguana posted:Ray posted:I disagree with your views on the Admin
You can disagree all you want, but you and Amral's fingerprints are all over the tolerance of open bigotry and hate on this site. Amral is actually a partaker in it, you just tolerant of it, aiding and abetting the promotion of bigotry. I do not want to discuss it here and detract from D2's thread.
I think Ray is trying to change, that's why he started his thread yesterday. 
Look who is talkin
Sophia Univ is very good at teaching people to be shameless!!
Good posts by Iguana and D2.
Idle bigots now actively trying to derail the thread with "daag", "sophia" and copy and paste mumbo jumbo. Can share nothing constructive. Proves my point.
All party go be insular. All abie a seh is dem must use open primary. We not accepting dem rig internal eleckshuns and show of hands anymore. It na wuk well for Guyana. Abie need to mek sure dem election in party audit. We see Burnham and Jagdeo dominate dem party for dem ethnic interest but dem give out lil metem and dhal puri to de big one dem from de other racial group.
Iguana posted:Ray posted:I disagree with your views on the Admin
You can disagree all you want, but you and Amral's fingerprints are all over the tolerance of open bigotry and hate on this site. Amral is actually a partaker in it, you just tolerant of it, aiding and abetting the promotion of bigotry. I do not want to discuss it here and detract from D2's thread.
Greenie happy new year bai...a see when yuh poasing snowie rowie does not poase. Ayoo using de same machine? Hey hey hey...
Both sides are equally racist but they express if different ways. The PNC institutionalized it to the point of quasi apartheid. Indians show it in different ways. I believe Indians are less racist in the deeper meaning! Indians are more insensitive to the issues of race.
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
Labba posted:Iguana posted:Ray posted:I disagree with your views on the Admin
You can disagree all you want, but you and Amral's fingerprints are all over the tolerance of open bigotry and hate on this site. Amral is actually a partaker in it, you just tolerant of it, aiding and abetting the promotion of bigotry. I do not want to discuss it here and detract from D2's thread.
Greenie happy new year bai...a see when yuh poasing snowie rowie does not poase. Ayoo using de same machine? Hey hey hey...
You notice too nah? Hmmm! One ah dem poase from home and den he move to Mc Donalds to use dem WiFi deh. The man nah want fuh get ketch wid de same IP address.
Iguana posted:Asking whether the PPP and PNC are insular parties is like asking whether Malcolm X was black. I agree they are insular and divided and politically we are like 2 tribes. The question is why. It is because each major race fears each other and for good reason. I acknowledge the racism aimed at Indians by Burnham's PNC for 28 years. Are the Indians posting here willing to acknowledge the racist policies of the PPP toward black folks, including the death squads? NO. And therein lies the problem.
This fear of each other began in colonial times. I'll give my perspective and you all are free to disagree with it. I'm willing to learn. Black people predated Indians in Guyana. Indians were brought as indentured labor to reduce the bargaining power of blacks freed from slavery. While Indians submitted to British rule, blacks were having their farms on the coast flooded and more.
Secondly, the disposition of Indians toward the Africans, where the African was seen as a sub human. This persists today. Examine the posts of Ugli, Nehru, Dave, Skeldon Man and other Indians posting here and you see it. In the 21st century, the Indian Admin Amral called a black woman a baboon and Demerara Guy followed it up with baboon pics. This is the Indian mindset toward black people in the 21st century. Can you imagine what it was at the genesis of this conflict?
Then came the BGEIA, an organization created by elite Indians for the sole purpose of flooding Guyana with Indians, increasing the majority and relegating the black man back to the slave status he fought to get out of. Yes, they wanted us to be slaves in a land we were brought to as captives, dug the canals, built the infrastructure and farmed the land. These Indians were telling us we had no place there and that it was Indian land. They wanted it ALL.
This continued into independence times, including the period when Burnham got wind of 'apna jaat' or something like that - the plan to subjugate black people. Blacks were (and still are) a minority back then. Facing a racist Indian mindset where they saw themselves as wards of the state and "owners" of Guyana, how were blacks to respond? Just cave in? Become slaves to indians again?
That is the genesis of it from the black side. I am not excusing or agreeing with Burnham's racism toward Indians, but understand the fear of black people losing their country. Then along comes PPP rule and 23 years of institutionalized racism. Bigots here like Nehru and Dave feel that black people should worship Jagdeo for some BBQ chicken and Banks beer!!!! Yes, that is the mindset of the racist Indian in Guyana who sees the entire country as THEIRS!!!!
I will not speak for Indians, other than to repeat what I stated before - they were victims of racism under Burnham's PNC. I get that. Hence their fear of black rule.
We cannot be a country unless this is addressed. It is my belief that the Indian mindset has not changed much. They are as racist and "entitled" as before. My 2 cents. And in this lil sandbox, the openly racist posters are Indians. Even down to the moderators who tolerate open bigotry and even join in it. This is what black people must accept in what is THEIR land too?
Until there is dialog, an acknowledgment of the racism on both sides, and an understanding of each other, we go nowhere. Oh, and let's not forget the constitution reform that removes winner takes all, and policies that disallow discrimination toward ANYONE!.
This board gat nuff anti black racism foh true. Everytime dem PPP bais say blackman should accept banks beer and BBQ and hug up Jagdoe it is in FACT racism. And is de wuss form. People have wan right not to get second class citizen. Fact is PPP dominate de society for wan rich Indian and mix people family and fren. And what dem do is give land, gold field and some contract to a few black peopkle who never had de black mass legitimacy. Until Jagdoe and he August month skool gang get dis (Labba went skool Augus month too), dem not likely getting powah. Yuh juss cyant buy everybody. Anyhow, greenie bhai, I want yuh foh get de histry right. Fuss is dem coolies also dig canals and keep dem ole ones blackpeople dig clear. If yuh is a country bai yuh will know dem canals full up wid silt, bizzy bizzy, moca moca, duck stuff and nuff camoudie quick. Six months and yuh having trouble. Somebady had to maintain dem and was dem coolies. Immediate after slavery free black peopkle from Barbados and Africa undercut de slave wage. Was not dem coolies.
Burnham came into office after an era of a colossal assault on the society by both parties. Sir Arthur Lewis headed the first five year plan and he was met with obvious reluctance by Indians. The symbols and slogans of his "One one people, one people. one destiny" carried a different connotation for Indians. They already know they were being excluded. They just had to look around. Taken to its ultimate extension it meant they were being erased. The creation of local militias, national service etc were met with the same sentiment by indians. They saw it as an extension of state control. I know I did.
By the next election all semblance by Burnham to be the gentle dictator was gone. He also had the unfortunate experience of stumbling into a global recession, which supplicated foreign. These combined with other mistakes saw the collapse of local industries. Indians were beginning to flee. Everyone who had a lil cow was selling it to get their kids out of the country. This was so pervasive he had to ban the sale or slaughter of heifers!
The point is we are here based on our history and if one starts with the perspective that humans are essentially good one has to pursue those ends to make our society better. Racism is natural xenophobia at diseased level. We need to control it. There is only one way...reorganizing how the society functions to lessen distrust. We must have constitutional reform.
These two parties are still in 60's mode and the quicker we accept that the better we will be at looking at our diseased society and seeking cures. Every cry that anyone make that any of these party has our interest is speaking to their inner demons. They cannot save us as they are. They can only bury us deeper.
Labba posted:All party go be insular. All abie a seh is dem must use open primary. We not accepting dem rig internal eleckshuns and show of hands anymore. It na wuk well for Guyana. Abie need to mek sure dem election in party audit. We see Burnham and Jagdeo dominate dem party for dem ethnic interest but dem give out lil metem and dhal puri to de big one dem from de other racial group.
Given what jagdeo did to cut the knees from under Ramson tells us that the kind of vindictive power move cannot be good. If the candidates are primaried the people will get to see them and accept them or not. No inner cabal of 15 people should ever in our future be allowed to govern our society.
Baseman posted:Both sides are equally racist but they express if different ways. The PNC institutionalized it to the point of quasi apartheid. Indians show it in different ways. I believe Indians are less racist in the deeper meaning! Indians are more insensitive to the issues of race.
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
Bringing more blacks is merely bring band aid to a tetanus infection. Their use of democratic centralism means black folks will be tools.
Labba posted:This board gat nuff anti black racism foh true. Everytime dem PPP bais say blackman should accept banks beer and BBQ and hug up Jagdoe it is in FACT racism. And is de ... Immediate after slavery free black peopkle from Barbados and Africa undercut de slave wage. Was not dem coolies.
You think these people have any love for Amerindians either? Nah....I went to school in august also. Always took first session of summer school to grab some credits.
In seriousness, we need more active patrolling of the site to mirror what would be behavior in real life. None of these people act the way they do here in real life. That is for sure.
D2 posted:Labba posted:This board gat nuff anti black racism foh true. Everytime dem PPP bais say blackman should accept banks beer and BBQ and hug up Jagdoe it is in FACT racism. And is de ... Immediate after slavery free black peopkle from Barbados and Africa undercut de slave wage. Was not dem coolies.
You think these people have any love for Amerindians either? Nah....I went to school in august also. Always took first session of summer school to grab some credits.
In seriousness, we need more active patrolling of the site to mirror what would be behavior in real life. None of these people act the way they do here in real life. That is for sure.
I have seen the respect give to the Amerindians at Springlands. Not everyone despises the natives.
Ray posted:I disagree with your views on the Admin
But a couple of lashes pon ugli and see how the racism ease up. I think the Rev...having been allow to poison this place normalized the nakedly racist obscenity what we now have.
skeldon_man posted:
I have seen the respect give to the Amerindians at Springlands. Not everyone despises the natives.
Normal people can be nice but institutionally the evidence is manifest. The PPP did not enable Amerindians at Oreala to bootstrap an tourist industry They award a local Indian group front lot on the native reserve for hotels etc and left Amerindians to be the cigar store injun or as a prop like Sitting Bull was for Bill Cody distortion of the west traveling circus. This practice is total. Even the Hostel does not have amerindian management. Everywhere we are wards of the state.
D2 posted:skeldon_man posted:
I have seen the respect give to the Amerindians at Springlands. Not everyone despises the natives.
Normal people can be nice but institutionally the evidence is manifest. The PPP did not enable Amerindians at Oreala to bootstrap an tourist industry They award a local Indian group front lot on the native reserve for hotels etc and left Amerindians to be the cigar store injun or as a prop like Sitting Bull was for Bill Cody distortion of the west traveling circus. This practice is total. Even the Hostel does not have amerindian management. Everywhere we are wards of the state.
Not sure when last you visited the Corentyne. I went once to Orealla in 1969. I do admire their self-sufficient lifestyle and their welcoming of visitors. I still do have a lot of respect for them. Once at Springlands, a few years ago, a native guy asked me for a couple hundred dollars to get back to the NW District. I gladly gave him a $500.00 bill and he thanked me.
skeldon_man posted:You notice too nah? Hmmm! One ah dem poase from home and den he move to Mc Donalds to use dem WiFi deh. The man nah want fuh get ketch wid de same IP address.
I do not know what you guys are referring to but IP spoofing is common place and no need to run aroung to hide ones computer ip footprint. Some browsers let you do it by default these days. If you want to spoof it, use Tor or Opera and turn on VPN. There are also a dozen add ons or you can go commercial with any for pay VPN as in Norton securities.
In reality it is really really hard to hide from a determined security expert.
skeldon_man posted:D2 posted:skeldon_man posted:
I have seen the respect give to the Amerindians at Springlands. Not everyone despises the natives.
Normal people can be nice but institutionally the evidence is manifest. The PPP did not enable Amerindians at Oreala to bootstrap an tourist industry They award a local Indian group front lot on the native reserve for hotels etc and left Amerindians to be the cigar store injun or as a prop like Sitting Bull was for Bill Cody distortion of the west traveling circus. This practice is total. Even the Hostel does not have amerindian management. Everywhere we are wards of the state.
Not sure when last you visited the Corentyne. I went once to Orealla in 1969. I do admire their self-sufficient lifestyle and their welcoming of visitors. I still do have a lot of respect for them. Once at Springlands, a few years ago, a native guy asked me for a couple hundred dollars to get back to the NW District. I gladly gave him a $500.00 bill and he thanked me.
I am telling you what happened recently and that did not even spoke to the PPP intervening to disqualify people they do not like in the local tribal council elections.
Iguana posted:@Former Member
Yes, Burnham took a stab at nationhood. My recollection - Indians for the most part wanted no part of it. They even vilified the Indians who tried to promote Guyana as a nation.
Realizing the importance of minimizing debt, Burnham promoted FCH - feed, clothe, house the nation and emphasized the use of local products. Buy local, eat local, etc. Great ideas, but not executed properly. However, the intention was commendable. We see how the lack of such has devastated the nation. Today, every government is scrambling to set up local industry to no avail.
How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
Burnham had a huge ego and demonstrated similar traits that we now see in Jagdeo. What saves Guyana is that the private sector survives despite the gov't. If the economy was as dominated by the state under Jagdeo as it was under Burnham we would have seen the same failures. Look at Guysuco and other PPP state interventions into the economy!
Dave posted:Narcissistic Personality Disorder Characteristics
- Lack of empathy. ...
- Exaggerated sense of self-importance. ...
- Feelings of entitlement. ...
- Selfishness in relationships. ...
- Enviousness and suspicion of other people's motivations. ...
- A need for excessive praise and attention. ...
- Arrogant and judgmental in attitude.
Pretty much describes Burnham and Jagdeo.
Baseman posted:
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
I asked Gilbakka and he is unable to answer it so I will ask you.
What has the PPP done to offset the image that it has among blacks for being an anti black party? Unless they address this they will get limited black support.
I will ask the same of the PNC and Indians, but given that no one on GNI chats about this the focus will be on the PPP.
After all on GNI we see lots of "black man bad, Indian good, so black man has to apologize". We even saw Kari and Chief demanding that the PNC must apologize to Indians even as neither man asked the same of former PPP officials who had moved to the AFC.
Labba posted:Anyhow, greenie bhai, I want yuh foh get de histry right. Fuss is dem coolies also dig canals and keep dem ole ones blackpeople dig clear.
To the contrary well into the period of Indian indenture blacks were still the canal diggers. The planters thought that Indians were too weak to do this type of work. Blacks were also concentrated in the factory as well as in the office. Its the cane cutting, weeding and in-field activities where the Indians were initially placed. It took a while before they began to dig and maintain ditches.
D2 posted:Burnham came into office after an era of a colossal assault on the society by both parties. Sir Arthur Lewis headed the first five year plan and he was met with obvious reluctance by Indians. The symbols and slogans of his "One one people, one people. one destiny" carried a different connotation for Indians. They already know they were being excluded.
At the time of independence the masses of blacks and Indians were excluded. It was the expat and local whites, the Portuguese, Chinese, red people and the urban black and Indian middle classes that were included. The last two only tentatively.
The issue is as I have said many times. Creoles (blacks, mixed, and Portuguese) have a different notion of being Guyanese and how their ethnicity relates to this than do Indians. Brazil is right next door and yet Guyanese Portuguese had virtually nothing to do with them. No O Globo soap operas relayed through Guyanese media, which in the early 60s the Portuguese had strong influence over.
Indians have a different notion of their ethnicity and how it relates to being Guyanese, so concoct a sinister plot for ethnic extinction. And of course when they do refuse to be part of this dialogue then the stereotype of the "selfish Indian who loves money and cannot be trusted" is then reinforced.
I was reading something about ethnicity in Suriname. They discovered that a Creole Surinamer is a Surinamer first. Only when what type of Surinamer is he does he mention Creole. An Indo Surinamer is an Indian first with ties to Suriname by birth.
So they seem to have the same dichotomy in identity that we have. In our case being harsher because we are two major groups, whereas they have 4 major groups, none more than 25%.
D2 posted:. None of these people act the way they do here in real life. That is for sure.
They do amongst themselves. Just not in front of a black person as cowardice is a dominant attribute of all of them.
Given that the moderators claim that they see no racism here their moderating should be limited to the Bibi/Baseman type of squabbles. I just dont trust them to know how to moderate on issues of race or racism. They cannot tell the difference.
skeldon_man posted:Once at Springlands, a few years ago, a native guy asked me for a couple hundred dollars to get back to the NW District. I gladly gave him a $500.00 bill and he thanked me.
As usual blacks and Amerindians must be reduced to being objects of charity, and then must be grateful. No they actually want the same rights as Indians had under the PPP. The fact that you cannot understand this shows how racist you are.
caribny posted:Baseman posted:
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
I asked Gilbakka and he is unable to answer it so I will ask you.
What has the PPP done to offset the image that it has among blacks for being an anti black party? Unless they address this they will get limited black support.
Not enough. I believe they have to do more on the image front. Bring in Afros in decision-making roles and develop policies, with the input of Afros, addressing issues specific to the Afro population. They need to work with Afros who Afros trust!
caribny posted:Iguana posted:@Former Member
Yes, Burnham took a stab at nationhood. My recollection - Indians for the most part wanted no part of it. They even vilified the Indians who tried to promote Guyana as a nation.
Realizing the importance of minimizing debt, Burnham promoted FCH - feed, clothe, house the nation and emphasized the use of local products. Buy local, eat local, etc. Great ideas, but not executed properly. However, the intention was commendable. We see how the lack of such has devastated the nation. Today, every government is scrambling to set up local industry to no avail.
How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
Burnham had a huge ego and demonstrated similar traits that we now see in Jagdeo. !
Strong leaders should have an ego. This is what makes them become driven. However, they must also learn to take input in decision-making!
Lookah rass hey, d2, cribby and iguana, 3 of the biggest bigots on this site discussing racism like social scientists.
It is amusing that someone will go into a long rant about how Indians have abused blacks from the time they arrived on the continent and then closes it with a lil hand slap that Indians experienced racism during PNC (Burnham's) 28 years. I wouldn't be surprised that if he re-read that, he will still think that he was fair and balanced in his assessment. In fact, black racism toward Indians did not end in 1992, it just took on a different form with all the slo fiah, mo fiah campaigns and the way the PNC violently undermined the PPP since 1992.
Guyana two major races are deeply suspicious of each other and the fear that Indians have had to endure at the hands of black criminals seems to taken lightly by black centric posters. No doubt Guyana would be a better place for all if there was more cooperation and acceptance of each other but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. The Coalition government promised a social cohesive government and while they named Nagamootoo Prime Minister, he was stripped of his port folio which was held by Harmon.
A clear example of how people address matters in a biased manner is the same people who chastised Yuji for what he said about Varshnee have yet to chastise Cribby for saying the same thing more than a year ago and he said that he actually knows one of the black men.
Everyone here has a preferred side. I don't deny mine. You don't fool anyone that you don't have one too. Meanwhile the other one is busy searching a=far and wide for anything to excuse the behavior of the Coalition Government which has ben toppled but they refuse to accept the result.
Why isn't anyone seeking that the PNC brings in an Indian with decision making powers. Cribby is asking for the PPP to put up a black for their Presidential candidate. Why isn't he asking that the PNC put up an Indian as their Presidential candidate? He said that Sam Hinds was a token black. So what is Nagamootoo? Isn't he a token Indian too?
caribny posted:D2 posted:. None of these people act the way they do here in real life. That is for sure.
They do amongst themselves. Just not in front of a black person as cowardice is a dominant attribute of all of them.
Given that the moderators claim that they see no racism here their moderating should be limited to the Bibi/Baseman type of squabbles. I just dont trust them to know how to moderate on issues of race or racism. They cannot tell the difference.
Stop crying for blacks. Granger is taking good care of them. He even resurrect Patterson from the dead and put him to be GECOM chairman.
Iguana posted:How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
You talking lil skont! Not every aspect of FCH was responded in a negative manner. However, it should have been more phased and the Govt should have picked on items where there are viable local alternatives. It would have taken a little longer, but become more sustainable. They went about in a heavy-handed slash and burn approach which caused a lot of disruption and hardship.
Any population needs time to adjust to a new situation. Where the discrimination came in is when the brought in KSI and had a Party-Card access model. That was GROSSLY discriminatory and racist given the Guyana Ethno-political environment!
Baseman posted:caribny posted:Baseman posted:
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
I asked Gilbakka and he is unable to answer it so I will ask you.
What has the PPP done to offset the image that it has among blacks for being an anti black party? Unless they address this they will get limited black support.
Not enough. I believe they have to do more on the image front. Bring in Afros in decision-making roles and develop policies, with the input of Afros, addressing issues specific to the Afro population. They need to work with Afros who Afros trust!
You would what they need to do? Pack Jagdeo and his cronies on a plane and send them to Canada to live with Charran.
Then you can find these black people.
Those Kwekwe drums are really beating loud. Haven't seen so much anger from black people for a long time.
caribny posted:Baseman posted:caribny posted:Baseman posted:
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
I asked Gilbakka and he is unable to answer it so I will ask you.
What has the PPP done to offset the image that it has among blacks for being an anti black party? Unless they address this they will get limited black support.
Not enough. I believe they have to do more on the image front. Bring in Afros in decision-making roles and develop policies, with the input of Afros, addressing issues specific to the Afro population. They need to work with Afros who Afros trust!
You would what they need to do? Pack Jagdeo and his cronies on a plane and send them to Canada to live with Charran.
Then you can find these black people.
Those Kwekwe drums are really beating loud. Haven't seen so much anger from black people for a long time.
Shut yuh poke. Da ainât guh happen! Yuh get wan inch, yuh tek wan whole yard!
Bharrat Juggernaut stays, and so does the rest of the pack!
ksazma posted:Why isn't anyone seeking that the PNC brings in an Indian with decision making powers. Cribby is asking for the PPP to put up a black for their Presidential candidate. Why isn't he asking that the PNC put up an Indian as their Presidential candidate? He said that Sam Hinds was a token black. So what is Nagamootoo? Isn't he a token Indian too?
Perhaps he does not give a shit about the PNC, he has spoken out against them on occasion has he not?
I see it as the man giving good advice but somehow you guys dont get it.
Same goes when he speaks AGAINST the injustices to East Indians and Blacks by both PPP and PNC but that is not enough, no, East Indians were all angels...fluttering around minding their own business when suddenly they are attacked by bad black people oh my oh my.
Enter Siggy DaLiared ..Oh ma Lawd even Putagee people bad, dem hate Indian people, I know because ...look yeh ...jus because.
Tek de bigger half an Lef de lil half.
ksazma posted:It is amusing that someone will go into a long rant about how Indians have abused blacks f
Kwekwe drums beating hard and they vex bad. So continue with your notion that you dont need to deal with their feelings.
Peeped into a FB dialogue and it isnt looking good. But you dont want to listen to Cathy Hughes, so its alright.
Drugb posted:Lookah rass hey, d2, cribby and iguana, 3 of the biggest bigots on this site discussing racism like social scientists.
Go sit down on a black baigan. Big men are talking here.
Baseman posted:However, they must also learn to take input in decision-making!
From 1957-64 Janet didn't. From 1964-1985 Burnham didn't and even after his death his control over the party prevented Hoyte from refashioning it until 1990 because he had Viola and Hammie breathing down his neck. Then we had Janet again from 1992 who then handed the country over to Jagdeo he then led it directly, or thru a stooge until 2015.
Granger didn't have an ego but then he couldn't control his people. Harmon running rampant, shaking everybody down with blatant demands for bribes. And he wasn't the only one. Then Granger scolded his base for being lazy and his base rewarded him by staying away in the LGE.
So we might get Jagdeo back again through the Anil stooge. That is if Guyana doesnt get its own Yellow Jackets, which might well happen unless those angry Kwekwe drums are made to panic less, and so quiet down.
Baseman posted:Iguana posted:How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
You talking lil skont! Not every aspect of FCH was responded in a negative manner. However, it should have been more phased and the Govt should have picked on items where there are viable local alternatives. It would have taken a little longer, but become more sustainable. They went about in a heavy-handed slash and burn approach which caused a lot of disruption and hardship.
Any population needs time to adjust to a new situation. Where the discrimination came in is when the brought in KSI and had a Party-Card access model. That was GROSSLY discriminatory and racist given the Guyana Ethno-political environment!
You are talking SHEER skont!!!!! You spend your entire post (with the exception of "not every aspect of FCH was responded in a negative manner"), reiterating what I stated in my post. Clearly I said FCH was not rolled out properly and alluded to the lack of alternatives prior to roll out. You basically repeat what I wrote then call what I wrote "lil skont". The sheer contagious dunceness of the Indo KKK is beginning to afflict you.
And what is this "aspect" of FCH that Indians responded to positively???? What did they do other than scream bloody murder and cry victimization because of a lack of flour conveniently forgetting black people couldn't bake bread either?!
Who owned the farms? INDIANS. One would think they would jump at the chance given by Burnham to "feed the nation" by increasing operations and revenue. NO. They did not. National interest meant nothing to them, just PPP and Indian only rule!
ksazma posted:I
Guyana two major races are deeply suspicious of each other and the fear that Indians have had to endure at the hands of black criminals seems to taken lightly by black centric posters.
Whole ton of black people attacked and killed by criminals. Whole ton of Indians attacked and killed by Indian criminals.
No wonder the tassa and the kwekwe drums are beating hard now.
ksazma posted:Why isn't anyone seeking that the PNC
I already said that the PNC is going to lose and they know it too. And from the boasts of Indian posters you all know this too.
So the onus is on the PPP to calm down a situation that they have created and that is using a group of Indians to bring to an end a majority black gov't.
Macron won the election and now the Yellow Jackets are stinging his ass. Yes go cuss down to white French people now.
Winning an election and then ignoring a large segment of the population that doesnt support you sometimes doesnt end well.
caribny posted:ksazma posted:I
Guyana two major races are deeply suspicious of each other and the fear that Indians have had to endure at the hands of black criminals seems to taken lightly by black centric posters.
Whole ton of black people attacked and killed by criminals. Whole ton of Indians attacked and killed by Indian criminals.
No wonder the tassa and the kwekwe drums are beating hard now.
You are a glutton for punishment. You persist dialoging with that confounded idiot who has no idea what he is talking about or why he holds an opinion. Meanders uselessly all over the place. Loquacious ramblings of a stunted mind.
Iguana posted:National interest meant nothing to them, just PPP and Indian only rule!
Not that i condone any form of corruption by the current gov't.
Listen to this fella, he seems to forget all the corruption that took place under his and Ramouthar tenure.
Bibi Haniffa posted:Stop crying for blacks.
I dont need to. From what I am seeing on FB they can take care of themselves. YOU however need to figure out what their plans are though.
Baseman posted:
Shut yuh poke. Da ainât guh happen! Yuh get wan inch, yuh tek wan whole yard!
Bharrat Juggernaut stays, and so does the rest of the pack!
I gave you an answer that you reject. So go fight with those beating Kwekwe drums of real anger.
cain posted:ksazma posted:Why isn't anyone seeking that the PNC brings in an Indian with decision making powers. Cribby is asking for the PPP to put up a black for their Presidential candidate. Why isn't he asking that the PNC put up an Indian as their Presidential candidate? He said that Sam Hinds was a token black. So what is Nagamootoo? Isn't he a token Indian too?
Perhaps he does not give a shit about the PNC, he has spoken out against them on occasion has he not?
I see it as the man giving good advice but somehow you guys dont get it.
Same goes when he speaks AGAINST the injustices to East Indians and Blacks by both PPP and PNC but that is not enough, no, East Indians were all angels...fluttering around minding their own business when suddenly they are attacked by bad black people oh my oh my.
Enter Siggy DaLiared ..Oh ma Lawd even Putagee people bad, dem hate Indian people, I know because ...look yeh ...jus because.
Tek de bigger half an Lef de lil half.
Thanks for repeating this. NONE of the blacks posting here deny that the PNC hasn't been guilty of racism towards Indians, and by extension blacks on the whole displaying insensitivity.
What we are not allowed to talk about is Indian racism.
Look at Gilbakka, who pretends as if he is a non racial Indian. Refuses to engage in any discussion about what the PPP can do to reduce the fear that blacks have of an Indian gov't.
And yes Gilbakka I am seeing real fear and anger at this point. So continue to think that you all can roam through Bourda Market with some nonentity Negro who no one knows. You did this in 2001, 2006, and in 2011. In 2015 you all sent out your House Negroes to tell blacks that they are lazy and stupid because they refuse to vote for the PPP.
Iguana posted:You are a glutton for punishment. You persist dialoging with that confounded idiot who has no idea what he is talking about or why he holds an opinion. Meanders uselessly all over the place. Loquacious ramblings of a stunted mind.
I am not being punished, rest assured. I do not plan to convert him. I plan to expose his racism and he makes my job quite easy!
caribny posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Stop crying for blacks.
I dont need to. From what I am seeing on FB they can take care of themselves. YOU however need to figure out what their plans are though.
Cribby, I remember that in 2015 you weren't worried about Indians resorting to violence. Actually, you were all goofing around about PPP protestors scared of two black women who assaulted them at a protest. How is it that you can speak so casually about blacks resorting to violence if they don't get their way.
caribny posted:What we are not allowed to talk about is Indian racism.
Cribby, you are free to do whatever you wish on GNI.
What you are not free to do is force others to accept your opinions.
These 3 jackasses live in an alternate universe where Blacks are beaten and harassed daily by Indos. d2 must have given them piwari spiked with lsd to drink.
caribny posted:Baseman posted:
Shut yuh poke. Da ainât guh happen! Yuh get wan inch, yuh tek wan whole yard!
Bharrat Juggernaut stays, and so does the rest of the pack!
I gave you an answer that you reject. So go fight with those beating Kwekwe drums of real anger.
You mean like the Kwekwe drums coming out of Buxton in the 2000s. Iâm willing to listen but donât threaten when you donât get all you want. Threats and intimidation will accomplish nothing.
caribny posted:skeldon_man posted:Once at Springlands, a few years ago, a native guy asked me for a couple hundred dollars to get back to the NW District. I gladly gave him a $500.00 bill and he thanked me.As usual blacks and Amerindians must be reduced to being objects of charity, and then must be grateful. No they actually want the same rights as Indians had under the PPP. The fact that you cannot understand this shows how racist you are.
Sorry! This was not what I had in mind. Because the man was very courteous and I realized he was telling me the truth, I obliged him. He was not drunk or smelly. I never saw him before in the area. Why should I consider the man as an object of charity? Are we not in this world to help our unfortunate brothers? FYI: I did not give any help to the coolies begging in Guyana, for I know, most of them have relatives in America who support them.
ksazma posted:It is amusing that someone will go into a long rant about how Indians have abused blacks from the time they arrived on the continent and then closes it with a lil hand slap that Indians experienced racism during PNC (Burnham's) 28 years. I wouldn't be surprised that if he re-read that, he will still think that he was fair and balanced in his assessment. In fact, black racism toward Indians did not end in 1992, it just took on a different form with all the slo fiah, mo fiah campaigns and the way the PNC violently undermined the PPP since 1992.
Guyana two major races are deeply suspicious of each other and the fear that Indians have had to endure at the hands of black criminals seems to taken lightly by black centric posters. No doubt Guyana would be a better place for all if there was more cooperation and acceptance of each other but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. The Coalition government promised a social cohesive government and while they named Nagamootoo Prime Minister, he was stripped of his port folio which was held by Harmon.
A clear example of how people address matters in a biased manner is the same people who chastised Yuji for what he said about Varshnee have yet to chastise Cribby for saying the same thing more than a year ago and he said that he actually knows one of the black men.
Everyone here has a preferred side. I don't deny mine. You don't fool anyone that you don't have one too. Meanwhile the other one is busy searching a=far and wide for anything to excuse the behavior of the Coalition Government which has ben toppled but they refuse to accept the result.
As long as there is oxygen in Cribby's lungs, he will always blame the coolies(people like me), for the socio-economic status of the black people in Guyana. He will one day preach that coolies must work and support all the blacks because their forefathers were slaves. This bai should wear a dhoti, beat a drum, knack jhaanj and preach on the streets of Guyana that black people are being marginalized by coolies. He might get a large following and sympathies from some of the coolies.
Django posted:Iguana posted:National interest meant nothing to them, just PPP and Indian only rule!
Not that i condone any form of corruption by the current gov't.
Listen to this fella, he seems to forget all the corruption that took place under his and Ramouthar tenure.
How about bai Djangy you look at the past and present corruption of your beloved PNC? Please don't ask me to provide proof. They are too many to list.
caribny posted:Baseman posted:
The PPP needs to bring more Afros into the fold in a meaningful way!
I asked Gilbakka and he is unable to answer it so I will ask you.
What has the PPP done to offset the image that it has among blacks for being an anti black party? Unless they address this they will get limited black support.
I will ask the same of the PNC and Indians, but given that no one on GNI chats about this the focus will be on the PPP.
After all on GNI we see lots of "black man bad, Indian good, so black man has to apologize". We even saw Kari and Chief demanding that the PNC must apologize to Indians even as neither man asked the same of former PPP officials who had moved to the AFC.
Lets get out of the victim mode and try to find some resonance in how we change these attitudes and our country so we can be a nation and enjoy its bounties. No one need to apologize to forge fixes. The necessity is to halt this overlordism by political parties and re direct our thinking to forcing them to participate in social and political reforms.
I hope we may explore those reform strategies.
ksazma posted:It is amusing that someone will go into a long rant about how Indians have abused blacks from the time they arrived on the continent and then closes it with a lil hand slap that Indians experienced racism during PNC (Burnham's) 28 years. I wouldn't be surprised that if he re-read that, he will still think that he was fair and balanced in his assessment. In fact, black racism toward Indians did not end in 1992, it just took on a different form with all the slo fiah, mo fiah campaigns and the way the PNC violently undermined the PPP since 1992.
Guyana two major races are deeply suspicious of each other and the fear that Indians have had to endure at the hands of black criminals seems to taken lightly by black centric posters. No doubt Guyana would be a better place for all if there was more cooperation and acceptance of each other but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. The Coalition government promised a social cohesive government and while they named Nagamootoo Prime Minister, he was stripped of his port folio which was held by Harmon.
A clear example of how people address matters in a biased manner is the same people who chastised Yuji for what he said about Varshnee have yet to chastise Cribby for saying the same thing more than a year ago and he said that he actually knows one of the black men.
Everyone here has a preferred side. I don't deny mine. You don't fool anyone that you don't have one too. Meanwhile the other one is busy searching a=far and wide for anything to excuse the behavior of the Coalition Government which has ben toppled but they refuse to accept the result.
There is nothing amusing about any claims or counter claims about injury to people and culture. Burnham did it and the PPP did it and there is no getting around that by blaming each other on an individual level. Black centric and indo centric are group terms we use to tar and feather each other for presumed indignities suffered at each other hands. The prevailing reality is that our nations people are still impoverished.
I cannot understand why we maintain these emotional archives as touchstones for behavior when it is counter to our individual personalities. None of us ( I hope) want to kill and meme or otherwise cause injury to another. This is a starting point How the hell did we get t his way? Why is it we organize around parties who never served our personal or communal needs? Those are the questions that should bother us and should attend our focus and our reason.
Bibi Haniffa posted:caribny posted:D2 posted:. None of these people act the way they do here in real life. That is for sure.
They do amongst themselves. Just not in front of a black person as cowardice is a dominant attribute of all of them.
Given that the moderators claim that they see no racism here their moderating should be limited to the Bibi/Baseman type of squabbles. I just dont trust them to know how to moderate on issues of race or racism. They cannot tell the difference.
Stop crying for blacks. Granger is taking good care of them. He even resurrect Patterson from the dead and put him to be GECOM chairman.
He can cry as you cry unless you want to be a warlord and order the killing of him and blacks. Y\u will have to deal with their cry because as co equal lease holders in this life on the state you need to find ways to share the space. Maybe you can demonstrate for us how well you understand our reality and speak to how we may solve our mutual suspicions of each other.
Baseman posted:Iguana posted:How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
You talking lil skont! Not every aspect of FCH was responded in a negative manner. However, it should have been more phased and the Govt should have picked on items where there are viable local alternatives. It would have taken a little longer, but become more sustainable. They went about in a heavy-handed slash and burn approach which caused a lot of disruption and hardship.
Any population needs time to adjust to a new situation. Where the discrimination came in is when the brought in KSI and had a Party-Card access model. That was GROSSLY discriminatory and racist given the Guyana Ethno-political environment!
Ok, lets talk how we get out of the ethno-political environment. Surely the PPP has not spoken to solutions. It is clear they have none and intends to thread water just as the APNU is doing while governing as the representative of only one half of our people.
We need find our way out of this thicket or the low level warfare where you can level invectives at another with whom you disagree will produce real street battles. While we fought for pittance in an impoverished state the outlook looks better. We might be fighting for millions of dollars soon. If we don't get our house right right none of us will see those millions as the ground becomes a killing fields.
ksazma posted:caribny posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Stop crying for blacks.
I dont need to. From what I am seeing on FB they can take care of themselves. YOU however need to figure out what their plans are though.
Cribby, I remember that in 2015 you weren't worried about Indians resorting to violence. Actually, you were all goofing around about PPP protestors scared of two black women who assaulted them at a protest. How is it that you can speak so casually about blacks resorting to violence if they don't get their way.
Violence is inevitable if we do not get our respective houses in order. Indians are no saint. They can be vile and are vile as any. Guyana's society is not that of our fathers day. Both indians and black youths wantonly kill to satiate needs or habit. Those two brothers who died in black bush during a robbery had their own take their life. We need to seek solutions and not constantly express the worse of our thinking. We have to solve our future.
skeldon_man posted:
As long as there is oxygen in Cribby's lungs, he will always blame the coolies(people like me), for the socio-economic status of the black people in Guyana. He will one day preach that coolies must work and support all the blacks because their forefathers were slaves. This bai should wear a dhoti, beat a drum, knack jhaanj and preach on the streets of Guyana that black people are being marginalized by coolies. He might get a large following and sympathies from some of the coolies.
Caribj has been blaming everyone since Iâm on this board. He even blame burnham. Iâm sure he ponders how to blame god! Sometimes I wonder if he is for real!
Let me preface this by saying I am Indian. A lot of my fellows Indians will not like what I am about to say. How is it that only blacks are admitting that BOTH parties have failed Guyana miserably? As far as most of the indos here are concerned, the PPP/Jagdeo was perfect even when the evidence bites them on the ass.
Hugh Jorgan posted:Let me preface this by saying I am Indian. A lot of my fellows Indians will not like what I am about to say. How is it that only blacks are admitting that BOTH parties have failed Guyana miserably? As far as most of the indos here are concerned, the PPP/Jagdeo was perfect even when the evidence bites them on the ass.
Like yuh doan read Iguana, Ronan, D2 and Caribj. Yuh afraid of them?
Besides, out ah de two, neither is good for Guyana. The way destiny have it, it will be one or the other. Suh, we pick sides. Indos for PPP, the Other ppl are PNC, Mars and his compatriots.
seignet posted:Hugh Jorgan posted:Let me preface this by saying I am Indian. A lot of my fellows Indians will not like what I am about to say. How is it that only blacks are admitting that BOTH parties have failed Guyana miserably? As far as most of the indos here are concerned, the PPP/Jagdeo was perfect even when the evidence bites them on the ass.
Like yuh doan read Iguana, Ronan, D2 and Caribj. Yuh afraid of them?
Besides, out ah de two, neither is good for Guyana. The way destiny have it, it will be one or the other. Suh, we pick sides. Indos for PPP, the Other ppl are PNC, Mars and his compatriots.
You missed my point. Those are precisely the blacks who admit both parties are toxic. Are you suggesting we wring our hands and continue along the divisive race path?
Hugh Jorgan posted:Let me preface this by saying I am Indian. A lot of my fellows Indians will not like what I am about to say. How is it that only blacks are admitting that BOTH parties have failed Guyana miserably? As far as most of the indos here are concerned, the PPP/Jagdeo was perfect even when the evidence bites them on the ass.
Consensus much larger because of Burnham....
ksazma posted:caribny posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Stop crying for blacks.
I dont need to. From what I am seeing on FB they can take care of themselves. YOU however need to figure out what their plans are though.
Cribby, I remember that in 2015 you weren't worried about Indians resorting to violence. Actually, you were all goofing around about PPP protestors scared of two black women who assaulted them at a protest. How is it that you can speak so casually about blacks resorting to violence if they don't get their way.
Not arguing with you. My mentor iguana is saying that I waste my time.
Listen to Cathy Hughes and read the letter in today's KN about Guyanese are bristling. It is written by GHK Lall, one of your folks.
And just to refresh your highly biased memory. In 2015 when some stupid blacks were running around harassing and threatening Indians with "ahwe pan tap" chants I condemned that. So too did Granger.
You however endorse Indian companies discriminating against blacks in professional/management categories. Dont care whether you said this or not. You didn't denounce it when the issue was raised.
Hugh Jorgan posted:You missed my point. Those are precisely the blacks who admit both parties are toxic. Are you suggesting we wring our hands and continue along the divisive race path?
No he wants blacks to agree with him that blacks are lazy criminals and that Lindeners should be cursed to live in poverty for eternity. This is what this seignet propagates. There are other racists like Yuji, Skeldon Man, Dave, drugb, and others.
We object to him with this and he calls us racists for doing so.
Baseman posted:Caribj has been blaming everyone since Iâm on this board. He even blame burnham. Iâm sure he ponders how to blame god! Sometimes I wonder if he is for real!
I can only wonder why you love Burnham so much. You get a melt down every time I speak the truth about that man. Why?
caribny posted:Hugh Jorgan posted:You missed my point. Those are precisely the blacks who admit both parties are toxic. Are you suggesting we wring our hands and continue along the divisive race path?
No he wants blacks to agree with him that blacks are lazy criminals and that Lindeners should be cursed to live in poverty for eternity. This is what this seignet propagates. There are other racists like Yuji, Skeldon Man, Dave, drugb, and others.
We object to him with this and he calls us racists for doing so.
Weren't these the people who burnt down the buildings and schools when they were asked to pay a little bit more for their electricity? Who is stopping them to be progressive? You want coolies to go build in Linden so they can be ruined when there is an election?
D2 posted:Baseman posted:Iguana posted:How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too q
Ok, lets talk how we get out of the ethno-political environment.
I have had my say in this, as have you. I look forward to the PPP supporters. Gilbakka says that all the PPP needs to do is outreach, precisely what Volda said that the PNC ought to do as well. Both the PNC and the PPP are defined by cronyism and ethnic pandering, but the PPP types will never admit that.
They need to start from the premise that both blacks and Indians have valid reasons for their ethno political behavior based on what they have experienced.
Now my thinking is moving towards maintaining the caretaker gov't operating under an interim "board" with equal representation by both the Coalition and the PPP. This until a new constitution is developed, because one cannot continue to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
Every report out of Guyana shows increasing tensions motivated by fear and until we address the underlying reasons for fear. These being ECONOMIC, then the tassa and kwekwe drums will be pounding against each other.
I suggest that people look at France. The 7th largest economy in the world and yet now in a cauldron of trouble. Macron came in and refused to engage the population. France 24 (available on YouTube) has much on this and I suggest that this is something for Guyanese to view.
skeldon_man posted:so.Weren't these the people who burnt down the buildings and schools when they were asked to pay a little bit more for their electricity? Who is topping them to be progressive? You want coolies to go build in Linden so they can be ruined when there is an election?
Of course you forgot that the PPP callously gunned them down and several people died and more were injured. And yes YOU and others were rolling over in their blood screaming in your usual bigotry about "good for dem!".
But go ahead Rosehall will starve now because Jagdeo doesnt give a damn about them. He will sell the lands to speculators and charge as much as he can for the Berbice bridge, or force tax payers to bail him and his cronies at some exorbitant price.
D2 posted:Black centric and indo centric are group terms we use to tar and feather each other for presumed indignities suffered at each other hands..
You need to stop finding moral equivalency. The Indo Nazis dont merely advocate for Indians and they have no need to as ronan, iguana, caribny and others will NOT argue against their claims.
What they do is claim "black man cannot run a mauby shop" (as if the PPP can), and stigmatize blacks as being criminal, violent, lazy and useless.
Does anyone here stigmatize Indians as cunning, money obsessed and immoral people who lack integrity? This being the stereotype that blacks have of Indians? No!
caribny posted:skeldon_man posted:so.Weren't these the people who burnt down the buildings and schools when they were asked to pay a little bit more for their electricity? Who is topping them to be progressive? You want coolies to go build in Linden so they can be ruined when there is an election?
Of course you forgot that the PPP callously gunned them down and several people died and more were injured. And yes YOU and others were rolling over in their blood screaming in your usual bigotry about "good for dem!".
But go ahead Rosehall will starve now because Jagdeo doesnt give a damn about them. He will sell the lands to speculators and charge as much as he can for the Berbice bridge, or force tax payers to bail him and his cronies at some exorbitant price.
The PPP did not gun them down. The PNC police did that because of their violent nature and threats.
Your second paragraph is pure speculation. You always see the doom and gloom of the PPP and still blame them for the blacks not wanting to better themselves. You are lucky the blacks do not have to work for the Chinese!!
caribny posted:Labba posted:Anyhow, greenie bhai, I want yuh foh get de histry right. Fuss is dem coolies also dig canals and keep dem ole ones blackpeople dig clear.To the contrary well into the period of Indian indenture blacks were still the canal diggers. The planters thought that Indians were too weak to do this type of work. Blacks were also concentrated in the factory as well as in the office. Its the cane cutting, weeding and in-field activities where the Indians were initially placed. It took a while before they began to dig and maintain ditches.
Hey hey hey...yuh givin dem bais some 50% truth dey bai and some anti-coolie stereotype...hey hey hey. When dem Indo numbers increase in the 1870s-80s and after dem start dig new canal and keep dem ole ones clear. Me in de 1980s and 1990s see me mamoo dem cleaning canals foh de cane punts pass...hey hey hey. Dragline was use only after wan few year...hey hey hey.
D2 posted:Lets get out of the victim mode and try to find some resonance in how we change these attitudes and our country so we can be a nation and enjoy its bounties. No one need to apologize to forge fixes. The necessity is to halt this overlordism by political parties and re direct our thinking to forcing them to participate in social and political reforms.
I hope we may explore those reform strategies.
Since I have come to GNI I have been attacked by raising the fact that blacks ALSO have a gripe based on their experiences. Did I claim that this gripe was specific only to blacks? NO! Did I claim that blacks were not also guilty of contributing to the Indian gripe? NO!
The denials and the victimhood has been 100% on one side and when even moderates like Kari and Chief wandered into that "PNC must apologize bit" I had to go ballistic. When you raised the issue of Indian racist attitudes NO Indian came to your defense or attempted to discuss the issue intelligently.
Just a few weeks ago large parts of the PNC base were out rebelling against the Coalition by refusing to vote. I know people who vowed never to support the PNC again because of how they were treated post 2015. Now the same people are beating Kwekwe drums furiously because they fear the return of Indian dominance with the economic exclusion that this implies.
You cannot diagnose a problem and craft a solution until you know what that problem is. And until people are open and willing to listen we will not move forward. Face it on GNI only one side of the ethnic divide listens as even a new poster Hugh Jordan has noticed.
Iguana posted:Baseman posted:Iguana posted:How did Indians respond to FCH? They saw it as "discrimination" against them. Burnham didn't want them to make roti. Well, didn't black people make bread with flour too? Weren't we likewise affected? NO, the Indian saw only himself as the victim!
Granted, FCH was not well thought out and rolled out too quickly, before local substitutes and/or alternatives were identified.
And yes, Burnham's good intentions were overshadowed by his megalomania.
You talking lil skont! Not every aspect of FCH was responded in a negative manner. However, it should have been more phased and the Govt should have picked on items where there are viable local alternatives. It would have taken a little longer, but become more sustainable. They went about in a heavy-handed slash and burn approach which caused a lot of disruption and hardship.
Any population needs time to adjust to a new situation. Where the discrimination came in is when the brought in KSI and had a Party-Card access model. That was GROSSLY discriminatory and racist given the Guyana Ethno-political environment!
You are talking SHEER skont!!!!! You spend your entire post (with the exception of "not every aspect of FCH was responded in a negative manner"), reiterating what I stated in my post. Clearly I said FCH was not rolled out properly and alluded to the lack of alternatives prior to roll out. You basically repeat what I wrote then call what I wrote "lil skont". The sheer contagious dunceness of the Indo KKK is beginning to afflict you.
And what is this "aspect" of FCH that Indians responded to positively???? What did they do other than scream bloody murder and cry victimization because of a lack of flour conveniently forgetting black people couldn't bake bread either?!
Who owned the farms? INDIANS. One would think they would jump at the chance given by Burnham to "feed the nation" by increasing operations and revenue. NO. They did not. National interest meant nothing to them, just PPP and Indian only rule!
Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
Labba posted:
Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
While there were and are black farmers they are outnumbered by Indians, so the encouraging people to buy local food and not imported would have benefitted Indians.
The part that Indians screamed "black man a kill ahbie" was the banning of the flour, but when last I checked all Guyanese used tons of flour, maybe even too much of it. So how were blacks not also punished when they couldn't buy bread, or (yes) a puri, which was the cheapest lunch available at the time?
Labba posted:
Hey hey hey...yuh givin dem bais some 50% truth dey bai and some anti-coolie stereotype...hey hey hey. When dem Indo numbers increase in the 1870s-80s and after dem start dig new canal and keep dem ole ones clear. Me in de 1980s and 1990s see me mamoo dem cleaning canals foh de cane punts pass...hey hey hey. Dragline was use only after wan few year...hey hey hey.
This isnt an "anti Indian stereotype". This was a belief system of the planters that it took 4 Indians to do the heavy work that one black man could do. So the heaviest jobs were reserved for black men.
And we aren't talking about the 1980s. We are talking about the 1880s.
skeldon_man posted:The PPP did not gun them down. The PNC police did that because of their violent nature and threats.
And of course if the PNC was responsible these officers could have been arrested for murder but they weren't. This is so stupid from you that even you mustn't be serious.
The thing that I notice with you PPP frauds is that even when you are in power you behave as if the PNC is governing, and yet you dont think that inclusive governance makes sense. So obsessed with winning elections and then you cannot govern afterwards, except by resorting to private militias run by Colombian cartel affiliated drug lords.
caribny posted:Labba posted:
Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
While there were and are black farmers they are outnumbered by Indians, so the encouraging people to buy local food and not imported would have benefitted Indians.
The part that Indians screamed "black man a kill ahbie" was the banning of the flour, but when last I checked all Guyanese used tons of flour, maybe even too much of it. So how were blacks not also punished when they couldn't buy bread, or (yes) a puri, which was the cheapest lunch available at the time?
You blame other Guyanese races for discriminating against blacks. What do you suppose the other races do to help them? You seem to know all the problems facing your people, but you don't have an inkling what can help them? 28 years of PNC rule did not help, 3 years of PNC rule did not make it better. Do you recommend giving all of them office jobs and let the rest of the nation do manual labor?
skeldon_man posted:You are lucky the blacks do not have to work for the Chinese!!
Funny that you raise this because it was YOUR Jagdeo who screamed that Guyanese were too lazy to build the Marriott and so a 100% Chinese workforce was used.
You know that Indians are very involved in construction so it wasn't just blacks that he was indicting.
skeldon_man posted:caribny posted:Labba posted:You blame other Guyanese races for discriminating against blacks. What do you suppose the other races do to help them?
And I can also ask why should other Guyanese subsidize the jobs of sugar workers when the sugar industry is a huge money loser. For every cent that GuySICKO gets they incur 3 cents in costs, meaning 2 cents in subsidies.
And if your folks are so "hardworking" why all the wails from Charran about their plight?
caribny posted:skeldon_man posted:caribny posted:Labba posted:You blame other Guyanese races for discriminating against blacks. What do you suppose the other races do to help them?
And I can also ask why should other Guyanese subsidize the jobs of sugar workers when the sugar industry is a huge money loser. For every cent that GuySICKO gets they incur 3 cents in costs, meaning 2 cents in subsidies.
And if your folks are so "hardworking" why all the wails from Charran about their plight?
Why are you still weeping and gnashing your gums for the Lindeners?
caribny posted:D2 posted:Black centric and indo centric are group terms we use to tar and feather each other for presumed indignities suffered at each other hands..
You need to stop finding moral equivalency. The Indo Nazis dont merely advocate
You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
seignet posted:Hugh Jorgan posted:Let me preface this by saying I am Indian. A lot of my fellows Indians will not like what I am about to say. How is it that only blacks are admitting that BOTH parties have failed Guyana miserably? As far as most of the indos here are concerned, the PPP/Jagdeo was perfect even when the evidence bites them on the ass.
Like yuh doan read Iguana, Ronan, D2 and Caribj. Yuh afraid of them?
Besides, out ah de two, neither is good for Guyana. The way destiny have it, it will be one or the other. Suh, we pick sides. Indos for PPP, the Other ppl are PNC, Mars and his compatriots.
Have I ever said my culture is a better culture than anyone, that I want to partition the country because I do not want to live with other races specificlly black people? Have I ever claimed that other cultures are simply substandard and they hold my culture down? No...but you have. What you do not like about me is I do not restrain my truth telling. Most indians are like you...they truly sucks!
skeldon_man posted:?Why are you still weeping and gnashing your gums for the Lindeners?
Because you and Charran are weeping about all the starvation in Rose Hall.
caribny posted:skeldon_man posted:You are lucky the blacks do not have to work for the Chinese!!
Funny that you raise this because it was YOUR Jagdeo who screamed that Guyanese were too lazy to build the Marriott and so a 100% Chinese workforce was used.
You know that Indians are very involved in construction so it wasn't just blacks that he was indicting.
Jagdeo is a grifter. He engaged a nation that lives by cheating others. The Chinese have done what Jagdeo accepted as normal everywhere on the planet.
Jagdeo was sufficiently corrupt to accept their devils bargain because they know he wanted access to graft. His greed does not condemn the rest of us to bear the penalty for his sins.
We need governments that does not get sucked into these kinds of deals. Granger did not fall for it wholesale but there are signs his regime was suspect to the same lures. Only a government with checks and balance can save us here and that is what is lacking. It will not come by race blaming.
The accepting the broadband deal reeks of Chinese influence for ulterior motive. We will not win here. They will have a large vacuum on our data. Plus, the loan could have been taken from the Islamic bank and we hire Cisco and not offend the Americans.
caribny posted:D2 posted:Black centric and indo centric are group terms we use to tar and feather each other for presumed indignities suffered at each other hands..
You need to stop finding moral equivalency. The Indo Nazis dont merely advocate for Indians and they have no need to as ronan, iguana, caribny and others will NOT argue against their claims.
What they do is claim "black man cannot run a mauby shop" (as if the PPP can), and stigmatize blacks as being criminal, violent, lazy and useless.
Does anyone here stigmatize Indians as cunning, money obsessed and immoral people who lack integrity? This being the stereotype that blacks have of Indians? No!
I do not know of any Indo Nazi and I was incubated, and raised in an indian cultural world most of my early life. You are letting your imagination take the best part of you.
Yes, I know Indian racists are everywhere. I can also say that there is a cultural part to that racism as they erect cultural boundaries and invest it in their women. Those those poor girls as designated purveyor of the cultural mores, carry that heavy investment all their lives. Indians are not an exogamous culture. Most cultures of the world are not. They can be racist all they want if we have systems to prevent the projection of it into the system in ways that disadvantages the rest of us.
The opposite is true of Amerindians. They are an open culture with no taboo against cross cultural mixing. They remain the most intermixed culture beginning with the Spanish and the Dutch and Portuguese and now Indians and blacks. Their culture remains intact only because they are shunned by both blacks and Indians. The Portuguese are the only culture that took us as kin.
Whether you like it or care to admit it or not Black culture is also semi closed. It may be because they share a society with a non exogamous culture and bear the social commentary of lesser than from slave societies and that carry the burden of housing our cross cultural siblings of the two major races. But it is a fact blacks have serious problems with Indians and don't care about Amerindians.
This being said who the hell cares who hate whom? Why should any one in the society put constrains on another in their social life if it does not concern them? That is the point.
If we had institutions that prevent racism from mediating social and political decisions the cultural problems even themselves out. Despite our problems with each other we do have almost a fifth of our population who manage to be because there is inevitable cultural mixing.
We all experience the colonial crucible and however more or less the burdens of that experience also cannot impact how we conduct ourselves in a world where we want to foster democracy and grow a nation.
I do not give a crap if Ugli thinks he is rich ( comparatively speaking he is not) or if he thinks his Brahmin's genes is superior or if he thinks himself smarter. Those are his prejudices and he owns them. In this society he cannot leverage his racism against us. That is because the ground is a bit level here and we can just laugh off his pretentious claims.
Similarly, that is the socio political ethos we have to create. Indians and blacks and Amerindians can maintain their insular practices among themselves or think as nasty things as is conceivable but they cannot use it to leverage unfair advantages in the society. I do not care who apologizes or who is nasty.
It is how the system is arranged not who likes you. Whites do not care for us in general in this society but we co exist. No one can say they have social priority in the general sense even if in legacy institutional ways they may. We take it for granted we can excel. That is what we need to do at home and get off the sach cloth and ashes syndrome of woe is me because someone does not like me.
As for moral equivalence...what do you want me to say...a lie...all of us suck or our nation would not be as crappy as it is.!
D2 posted:
Whether you like it or care to admit it or not Black culture is also semi closed. It may be because they share a society with a non exogamous culture and bear the social commentary of lesser than from slave societies and that carry the burden of housing our cross cultural siblings of the two major races.
Again trying to claim that because Indians are one way blacks must be the same way.
1. In Guyana we have a phenomenon. No one can tell you who is black and who is mixed. Benschop says that he is mixed but Granger claims a black identity. So where is this closed culture? We cannot agree with who is black and who isnt. We dont even agree as to what we should call ourselves. Arguing about "black", "African" (which only intellectuals use), "Afro Guyanese", with some older folks even insulted if you dont call them "negro".
2. Do we have an "African" culture in Guyana? No we do not, and in fact few Afro Guyanese even have the slightest interest in Africa. Afro Guyanese are culturally creole and do not believe that this creole culture is unique to them. You do not hear any "cultural appropriation" calls. Creole folk songs are seen as "Guyanese" as is the creole dialect and other cultural contributions of Afro Guyanese. We dont police our ethnic borders the way that other ethnic groups in Guyana do.
3. The bulk of the mixed people in Guyana are part black. Blacks dont have a history of rejecting their mixed relatives or disowning people because they marry outside of the race.
Racism is a fact among blacks, but claiming that its because they are socially or economically closed is a joke.
Until recently middle class blacks wanted to have nothing to do with the more African aspects of Afro Guyanese culture and there was much admiration for "advancing" the race. And you know what "good hair" is.
If blacks have a problem its that they dont have an ethnic identity defined enough to protect themselves against that very powerful Indian identity. They dont support each other in the way that Indians do. An Indian will support a person because that person is an Indian, and I have seen this with my own eyes. It wouldn't even dawn on a black Guyanese to support a fellow black, such thinking only beginning to develop when they arrive in the USA.
Baseman posted:caribny posted:D2 posted:Black centric and indo centric are group terms we use to tar and feather each other for presumed indignities suffered at each other hands..
You need to stop finding moral equivalency. The Indo Nazis dont merely advocate
You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
And you need to stop thinking the dis-equivalence is a product of black people. Indians are out there killing people. There are two last week where one fellow was stabbed and two brothers killed all by indian "terrorists"..and do not forget the mass murderer pirate who had approximately 20 something murders chalked up to his clan.
Lets talk about systems that will make our party system better and our democracy better. It is quite foolish to avoid that where these vile practices have influences and begin blaming other races for our plight
caribny posted:D2 posted:
Whether you like it or care to admit it or not Black culture is also semi closed. It may be because they share a society with a non exogamous culture and bear the social commentary of lesser than from slave societies and that carry the burden of housing our cross cultural siblings of the two major races.
Again trying to claim that because Indians are one way blacks must be the same way.
1. In Guyana we have a phenomenon. No one can tell you who is black and who is mixed. Benschop says that he is mixed but Granger claims a black identity. So where is this closed culture
2. Do we have an "African" culture in Guyana? No we do not, and in fact few Afro Guyanese even have the slightest interest in Africa.
3. The bulk of the mixed people in Guyana are part black. Blacks dont have a history of rejecting their mixed relatives or disowning people because they marry outside of the race.
Racism is a fact among blacks, but claiming that its because they are closed is a joke. Maybe because they bought so much into the colonial hierarchy that put Amerindians at the bottom more like it.
Until recently middle class blacks wanted to have nothing to do with the more African aspects of Afro Guyanese culture and there was much admiration for "advancing" the race. And you know what "good hair" is.
If blacks have a problem its that they dont have an ethnic identity strong enough to protect themselves against that very powerful Indian identity. They dont support each other in the way that Indians do. An Indian will support a person because that person is an Indian, and I have seen this with my own eyes. It wouldn't even dawn on a black Guyanese to support a fellow black, such thinking only beginning to develop when they arrive in the USA.
You are again reading what is not there. My way does not care what way people are when I look at the problem. I care that the solution is to prevent them from poisoning the society. You ...believe it or not...poison the society as much as Ugli. You want him to change at his expense. That is bullox. Societies do not transform because we transform people first. We transform the the system and the system coerces them to palatable practices
I also do not give a damn who is what. Ugli says he is Brahamin...what do I care of it? Others say they are genetically superior ( a laugh) and why should I care?
Blacks can be as racist as ever but I do not care. I care that their racism does not affect me. Burnham, and Granger has affected my people and so has Jagdeo. They can because they foster the system that is to their advantage and to our disadvantage
I want to tear that down. I do not care to hear you whining about how Indians disadvantage blacks or from Indians how blacks are the bane of their existence. I want a nation where communitarian ends are achievable and bigots can go in your corner and nurse their racism as a precious baby if they please because they can only affect the system in holistic ways that benefits all.
caribny posted:skeldon_man posted:?Why are you still weeping and gnashing your gums for the Lindeners?
Because you and Charran are weeping about all the starvation in Rose Hall.
Why have you and Iguana stayed away from Guyana. ( if I recalled correctly, Iguana claimed to left Guyana decades ago, he sk&nt wouldnât recognize GT with its rich lifestyle) Maybe Redux also.
Do you know the lifestyle of blacks now compare to PNC days.
Black people lifestyle was elevated under PPP government.
In the last 2 years ayo sk&nt punishment went back to 28 years of PNC government.
D2 posted:Lets talk about systems that will make our party system better and our democracy better. It is quite foolish to avoid that where these vile practices have influences and begin blaming other races for our plight
I keep on telling you that the problem in Guyana isnt political? Just a few weeks ago black people were cussing down APNU for confining their dealings with people like BK and Muneshwar. They boycotted the LGE.
They dont care who runs the country politically. They just want to be sure that this is fair and they dont see the PPP as being fair. They also do not see Indian owned companies in Guyana as being fair.
All of this rage isnt because they care about Granger, Volda or Trotman and whether they lose their jobs or not. In fact if a PPP presented itself with a Frank Anthony and a Clinton Urling they may give them a chance to prove themselves.
All I can suggest is that an interim gov't is put in place to handle the day to day affairs of the nation. This can occur after March 20th. This interim gov't should be administered by a body with equal representation from the Coalition and the PPP. Equal because they can either fight with each other, or they can cooperate.
Such body should have as its priority engaging Civil Society with the task of drafting a new constitution. They should NOT be involved in this task. Civic Society should be drawn from as broad a net of entities to ensure full representation of all ethnicities, occupations, religions, regions, and social classes.
Once a draft constitution is developed than this managing group can opine on it and return it back to the drafting committee if they feel that its incomplete. Once they are satisfied then it goes to referendum, and within a stipulated period then elections can be held.
I also suggest that parallel to this a body be set up to study ethnic issues and again shouldn't include politicians. The issues of the Indian, African and Amerindians should be addressed as well as the growing Latin American population. We need to have an updated analysis of this problem so that we stop using theories based on the early 1960s civil war. Guyana is not what it was in 1964.
Dave posted:Why have you and Iguana stayed away from Guyana. ( if I recalled correctly, Iguana claimed to left Guyana decades ago, he sk&nt wouldnât recognize GT with its rich lifestyle) Maybe Redux also.
Just like 90% of the posters here. How come you dont ask this of the PPP frauds?
We do have friends and relatives in Guyana. We also read articles like that written by GHK Lall and David Hinds, neither of whom deny that there is heightened ethnic anxiety.
You can deny as you wish but blacks hate the PPP and the fact that the PPP can only attract the likes of a Lumumba or an Edghill shows this. Blacks with integrity stay away from them.
caribny posted:D2 posted:Lets talk about systems that will make our party system better and our democracy better. It is quite foolish to avoid that where these vile practices have influences and begin blaming other races for our plight
I keep on telling you that the problem in Guyana isnt political? Just a few weeks ago black people were cussing down APNU for confining their dealings with people like BK and Muneshwar. They boycotted the LGE.
They dont care who runs the country politically. They just want to be sure that this is fair and they dont see the PPP as being fair. They also do not see Indian owned companies in Guyana as being fair.
All of this rage isnt because they care about Granger, Volda or Trotman and whether they lose their jobs or not. In fact if a PPP presented itself with a Frank Anthony and a Clinton Urling they may give them a chance to prove themselves.
All I can suggest is that an interim gov't is put in place to handle the day to day affairs of the nation. This can occur after March 20th. This interim gov't should be administered by a body with equal representation from the Coalition and the PPP. Equal because they can either fight with each other, or they can cooperate.
Such body should have as its priority engaging Civil Society with the task of drafting a new constitution. They should NOT be involved in this task. Civic Society should be drawn from as broad a net of entities to ensure full representation of all ethnicities, occupations, religions, regions, and social classes.
Once a draft constitution is developed than this managing group can opine on it and return it back to the drafting committee if they feel that its incomplete. Once they are satisfied then it goes to referendum, and within a stipulated period then elections can be held.
I also suggest that parallel to this a body be set up to study ethnic issues and again shouldn't include politicians. The issues of the Indian, African and Amerindians should be addressed as well as the growing Latin American population. We need to have an updated analysis of this problem so that we stop using theories based on the early 1960s civil war. Guyana is not what it was in 1964.
You can tell me all you want but like you I have been schooled by the best and can analyze the society for myself. It is pure nonsense that our problem is in the blame game and the woe is me game. That is the symptom.
I dare you to find one example in the global compendium of conflict transformation strategies where the strategy was to act on the people and not the processes and procedures around which the society is organized. I care little for Indian and black black racists if they cannot affect me and get away with it.
BTW conflict transformation also does no begin with the blame game. Actually it is a clean slate process. It imagines an idealized state where the people with all their burdens can live minus the parts that would destroy each other if they express them.
Your strategy is what Dr Hinds and my nemesis Eric Phillips present as solutions from way back in 2000. I see no problem with it except as Hinds noted there must be a finite duration of this administration ie a year in which time a full fledged constitution would birth a new way of governing our people. Phillips even have a novel elections strategy.
D2 posted:You are again reading what is not there.
You offered a flawed analysis of black ethnic identity in Guyana because you wanted to make it equivalent to the Indian ethnic identity. Your analysis is wrong.
Ethnic identity in Guyana is core to our problems. Why do blacks insist that Indians stop being "clannish?" Why do Indians think that blacks ought to just leave them alone? Why do blacks joke that the solution to the dilemma is "douglarization?" Why no most Indians not only recoil from that, but consider such a remark to be racist?
Until you get to the bottom of this nothing that you do will solve the problem. Its like given a couple a nice house thinking that this will solve their marital problems.
Just as how these people need counseling so too do the two major groups. And the methods or the same. Understanding the underlying problem and getting people to listen to each other.
caribny posted:D2 posted:You are again reading what is not there.
You offered a flawed analysis of black ethnic identity in Guyana because you wanted to make it equivalent to the Indian ethnic identity. Your analysis is wrong.
Ethnic identity in Guyana is core to our problems. Why do blacks insist that Indians stop being "clannish?" Why do Indians think that blacks ought to just leave them alone? Why do blacks joke that the solution to the dilemma is "douglarization?" Why no most Indians not only recoil from that, but consider such a remark to be racist?
Until you get to the bottom of this nothing that you do will solve the problem. Its like given a couple a nice house thinking that this will solve their marital problems.
Just as how these people need counseling so too do the two major groups. And the methods or the same. Understanding the underlying problem and getting people to listen to each other.
I never made any equivalence between the cultures. I dont care. I never analyze them except to disabuse people of nonsensical beliefs.
We debated this clannish crap for 28 pages back in 2007 and did not get anywhere. I do not care to repeat the experience.
You can tell me all you want but like you I have been schooled by the best and can analyze the society for myself. It is pure nonsense that our problem is in the blame game and the woe is me game. That is the symptom.
I dare you to find one example in the global compendium of conflict transformation strategies where the strategy was to act on the people and not the processes and procedures around which the society is organized. I care little for Indian and black black racists if they cannot affect me and get away with it.
BTW conflict transformation also does no begin with the blame game. Actually it is a clean slate process. It imagines an idealized state where the people with all their burdens can live minus the parts that would destroy each other if they express them.
Your strategy is what Dr Hinds and my nemesis Eric Phillips present as solutions from way back in 2000
=========================================
It is a blame game and a woe is me game. I have NEVER seen a Guyanese forum where ethnicities of posters isnt easily discerned by what they write. THAT is the starting point. The challenge is to move it BEYOND that point. Ksazma has no interest in listening to black people and there are many blacks no more interested in listening to him. This is where we are and to pretend that it isnt is nonsense.
You and I are advanced middle aged men who left Guyana decades ago. I am not going to tell Guyanese what to do or what their problems are. I will simply tell them to establish structures so that the type of dialogue that is needed can occur.
And can you tell me where I demand that one ethnic group should be assigned priority simply because they arrived before the others and did so involuntarily and under duress? Comparing me to Eric Phillips is blatantly dishonest.
And in fact I am discussing a PROCESS and a framework to allow this. The only difference is that I have some degree of respect for people who currently live in Guyana, whereas you clearly do not. So you want to impose on them a process and then rage when it doesnt work.
I suggest that they lock themselves in two rooms, one to deal with the ethnic issue and another to deal with the constitution. And that some neutral governing structure be established while all of this happens. And because neither the PPP or the Coalition can be trusted to behave that a body with equal representation be established, so neither can seek to one up the other and they will have to cooperate or achieve nothing.
D2 posted:I never made any equivalence between the cultures. I dont care. I never analyze them except to disabuse people of nonsensical beliefs.
We debated this clannish crap for 28 pages back in 2007 and did not get anywhere. I do not care to repeat the experience.
People operate within the cultural context that they were raised. Whereas a discussion of Jamaica's political woes can be raised without reference to this Guyana, which consists of two radically different cultures, it cannot be ignored.
I repeat. Putting a warring couple in a fancy house doesnt mean that their marriage will work. Guyana has a warring couple. They dont understand each other because of how they think, and until they begin to understand each other they will fight. When they have to listen to each other than we see progress.
If an Indian sees a black man and refuses to hire him because he thinks that he is lazy and then the black man looks back and sees that he hired a less qualified Indian you can have all the constitution that you wish but we will still have a problem. When that black man gets power he will direct it to thwart the Indian, and given Guyana's history that power will be located within the public sector and blacks will fight like hell to preserve this zone of power.
caribny posted:D2 posted:I never made any equivalence between the cultures. I dont care. I never analyze them except to disabuse people of nonsensical beliefs.
We debated this clannish crap for 28 pages back in 2007 and did not get anywhere. I do not care to repeat the experience.
People operate within the cultural context that they were raised. Whereas a discussion of Jamaica's political woes can be raised without reference to this Guyana, which consists of two radically different cultures, it cannot be ignored.
I repeat. Putting a warring couple in a fancy house doesnt mean that their marriage will work. Guyana has a warring couple. They dont understand each other because of how they think, and until they begin to understand each other they will fight. When they have to listen to each other than we see progress.
If an Indian sees a black man and refuses to hire him because he thinks that he is lazy and then the black man looks back and sees that he hired a less qualified Indian you can have all the constitution that you wish but we will still have a problem. When that black man gets power he will direct it to thwart the Indian, and given Guyana's history that power will be located within the public sector and blacks will fight like hell to preserve this zone of power.
The fancy house is not to ensure the marriage will work. It is contingent on whether they care to make it work. Sensible couples care to work things our or as Gweneth Paltrow said, have a conscious "decoupling". Murder will not be a means to divorce.
Every society from Japan, to Europe to South Africa to Ireland has warring people willing to tear each other apart. They live can live together with out the governments going despotic. That is a start to mending.
I do not care how the indian sees the black man or visa versa. There will be disincentives to fighting. The public sector is not a plum pie and will not be a plum pie in the future. It is actually an economic trap into a fixed income. Entrepreneurship will be the holy grail and as long as the government cannot operate with the kith and kin attitude all will be well
caribny posted:D2 posted:You are again reading what is not there.
You offered a flawed analysis of black ethnic identity in Guyana because you wanted to make it equivalent to the Indian ethnic identity. Your analysis is wrong.
Ethnic identity in Guyana is core to our problems. Why do blacks insist that Indians stop being "clannish?" Why do Indians think that blacks ought to just leave them alone? Why do blacks joke that the solution to the dilemma is "douglarization?" Why no most Indians not only recoil from that, but consider such a remark to be racist?
Until you get to the bottom of this nothing that you do will solve the problem. Its like given a couple a nice house thinking that this will solve their marital problems.
Just as how these people need counseling so too do the two major groups. And the methods or the same. Understanding the underlying problem and getting people to listen to each other.
Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
caribny posted:Labba posted:
Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
While there were and are black farmers they are outnumbered by Indians, so the encouraging people to buy local food and not imported would have benefitted Indians.
The part that Indians screamed "black man a kill ahbie" was the banning of the flour, but when last I checked all Guyanese used tons of flour, maybe even too much of it. So how were blacks not also punished when they couldn't buy bread, or (yes) a puri, which was the cheapest lunch available at the time?
Me na buy dat. Yuh gat to compare peopkle with dem percent of population. Yuh gat as much small and medium black former like coolie farmer. Now meh believe yuh gat Indians dominate in rice. Dat was for export to bring in he hard wite man money. In essequibo one of de biggest rice farmer is a blackman. Hey hey hey.
Labba posted:caribny posted:D2 posted:You are again reading what is not there.
You offered a flawed analysis of black ethnic identity in Guyana because you wanted to make it equivalent to the Indian ethnic identity. Your analysis is wrong.
Ethnic identity in Guyana is core to our problems. Why do blacks insist that Indians stop being "clannish?" Why do Indians think that blacks ought to just leave them alone? Why do blacks joke that the solution to the dilemma is "douglarization?" Why no most Indians not only recoil from that, but consider such a remark to be racist?
Until you get to the bottom of this nothing that you do will solve the problem. Its like given a couple a nice house thinking that this will solve their marital problems.
Just as how these people need counseling so too do the two major groups. And the methods or the same. Understanding the underlying problem and getting people to listen to each other.
Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Clans are fundamental. It is but another way to say kin group or tribe
Labba posted:caribny posted:D2 posted:You are again reading what is not there.
You offered a flawed analysis of black ethnic identity in Guyana because you wanted to make it equivalent to the Indian ethnic identity. Your analysis is wrong.
Ethnic identity in Guyana is core to our problems. Why do blacks insist that Indians stop being "clannish?" Why do Indians think that blacks ought to just leave them alone? Why do blacks joke that the solution to the dilemma is "douglarization?" Why no most Indians not only recoil from that, but consider such a remark to be racist?
Until you get to the bottom of this nothing that you do will solve the problem. Its like given a couple a nice house thinking that this will solve their marital problems.
Just as how these people need counseling so too do the two major groups. And the methods or the same. Understanding the underlying problem and getting people to listen to each other.
Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Blackman show one love or clannish when dem threaten foh boycott de man from ANUG...Campbell? Why dem threaten foh boycott de man bisness? Doh is one love or clannish? Hey hey hey...
D2 posted:The fancy house is not to ensure the marriage will work. It is contingent on whether they care to make it work. Sensible couples care to work things our or as Gweneth Paltrow said, have a conscious "decoupling". Murder will not be a means to divorce.
Every society from Japan, to Europe to South Africa to Ireland has warring people willing to tear each other apart. They live can live together with out the governments going despotic. That is a start to mending.
I do not care how the indian sees the black man or visa versa. There will be disincentives to fighting. The public sector is not a plum pie and will not be a plum pie in the future. It is actually an economic trap into a fixed income. Entrepreneurship will be the holy grail and as long as the government cannot operate with the kith and kin attitude all will be well
You can dwell in your NON BLACKNESS in the USA and think as you wish. Blacks in Guyana and T&T will view the public sector as a life jacket until they feel confident that the private sector will be fair to them. Unlike Jamaica and Barbados, which had their own private sector anti blackness, there are many non blacks in T&T and Guyana, so those who wish to project their negative bias against blacks in discrimination in hiring/promotion decisions are amply able to do so. In Jamaica and Barbados the private sector had no choice but to open up, given the demographics of those populations.
You will not get Guyanese and Trinidadian blacks to cease desiring dominance of the public sector while you do NOTHING about the hiring and promotional practices of the corporate sector. Solve one and then the other is resolved. Public sector dominance will cease to be a prize because the zero sum scenario becomes less relevant.
South Africa in fact indicates exactly why ignoring the cultural context doesn't work. Blacks and whites in that nation operate in an even more cultural different context than do blacks and Indians in Guyana. Yes when Mandela came on stream there was a lot of glad handing but now we see a nation where the two look at each other and don't wish to understand their respective contexts. The blacks accuse the whites of being greedy and the whites fear a Zimbabwe scenario.
So I hope that you don't think that their post apartheid arrangements prove your point. Those arrangements didn't work any better than in 1992 when Jimmy Carter led the holding of elections which led to the end of the PNC dictatorship. As with South Africa, so with Guyana there is a whole raft of ethnic angst which infect the entirety of what these nations represent and one cannot reference these countries without noting this.
What is Guyana most known for? Its the low level tribal conflict which impacts how the rest of the world sees us. I never see any article written about Guyana which doesn't dwell on this and its potential for more open conflict.
Labba posted:Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Get it right. They are voting AGAINST an Indian gov't because they fear what that Indian gov't will do to them. They saw what Cheddi did in 1992 and Jagdeo again in 2000 and do not want those days back again,
So deal with your clannishness first. The PPP had 23 years to establish a record and a record of hostility to blacks they certainly did.
caribny posted:D2 posted:The fancy house is not to ensure the marriage will work. It is contingent on whether they care to make it work. Sensible couples care to work things our or as Gweneth Paltrow said, have a conscious "decoupling". Murder will not be a means to divorce.
Every society from Japan, to Europe to South Africa to Ireland has warring people willing to tear each other apart. They live can live together with out the governments going despotic. That is a start to mending.
I do not care how the indian sees the black man or visa versa. There will be disincentives to fighting. The public sector is not a plum pie and will not be a plum pie in the future. It is actually an economic trap into a fixed income. Entrepreneurship will be the holy grail and as long as the government cannot operate with the kith and kin attitude all will be well
You can dwell in your NON BLACKNESS in the USA and think as you wish. Blacks in Guyana and T&T will view the public sector as a life jacket until they feel confident that the private sector will be fair to them. Unlike Jamaica and Barbados, which had their own private sector anti blackness, there are many non blacks in T&T and Guyana, so those who wish to project their negative bias against blacks in discrimination in hiring/promotion decisions are amply able to do so. In Jamaica and Barbados the private sector had no choice but to open up, given the demographics of those populations.
You will not get Guyanese and Trinidadian blacks to cease desiring dominance of the public sector while you do NOTHING about the hiring and promotional practices of the corporate sector. Solve one and then the other is resolved. Public sector dominance will cease to be a prize because the zero sum scenario becomes less relevant.
South Africa in fact indicates exactly why ignoring the cultural context doesn't work. Blacks and whites in that nation operate in an even more cultural different context than do blacks and Indians in Guyana. Yes when Mandela came on stream there was a lot of glad handing but now we see a nation where the two look at each other and don't wish to understand their respective contexts. The blacks accuse the whites of being greedy and the whites fear a Zimbabwe scenario.
So I hope that you don't think that their post apartheid arrangements prove your point. Those arrangements didn't work any better than in 1992 when Jimmy Carter led the holding of elections which led to the end of the PNC dictatorship. As with South Africa, so with Guyana there is a whole raft of ethnic angst which infect the entirety of what these nations represent and one cannot reference these countries without noting this.
What is Guyana most known for? Its the low level tribal conflict which impacts how the rest of the world sees us. I never see any article written about Guyana which doesn't dwell on this and its potential for more open conflict.
Fortunately you do not get to speak for all Guyanese blacks. I have lots of mates from my undergrad days and they all sit down and discuss these issues and long for changes in the exercise of power. I cannot say I have heard one of them insist that "Gargetown is fa we" and the the "Public sector is we own"
caribny posted:Labba posted:Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...Get it right. They are voting AGAINST an Indian gov't because they fear what that Indian gov't will do to them. They saw what Cheddi did in 1992 and Jagdeo again in 2000 and do not want those days back again,
So deal with your clannishness first. The PPP had 23 years to establish a record and a record of hostility to blacks they certainly did.
Hey hey hey...and dem coolies voting against what ayoo one love party PNC do from 1964 to 1992 and how Burnham throw out de 50% Indos in the army the British leff. De same principle apply foh both side. Me even see that kanta economis TK write papah sayin de same ting what yu say and what de Labba say...hey hey hey.
D2 posted:Clans are fundamental. It is but another way to say kin group or tribe
To call the descendants of transatlantic slavery clannish is a joke. Their ethnic identities are formed in response to how non blacks treat them. You go to those majority black islands in the Caribbean and they hardly ever discuss race. It is in Guyana and T&T that it becomes an issue because blacks in those two nations feel a vulnerability that they don't in Barbados.
Go to the DR and someone like Denzel Washington will have a meltdown if you called them black. So what kind of racially based clannish loyalties do we have? You have 1/3 of the "black" population of Guyana, who would be called mixed if they went to Barbados, calling themselves mixed. Yes people like Raphael Trotman and Mark Benschop.
Labba posted:Hey hey hey...and dem coolies voting against what ayoo one love party PNC do from 1964 to 1992 and how Burnham throw out de 50% Indos in the army the British leff. De same principle apply foh both side. Me even see that kanta economis TK write papah sayin de same ting what yu say and what de Labba say...hey hey hey.
Let us get some historical facts first. The PPP ran Guyana from 1957 until 1964 and Janet did her best to clean the civil service of as many blacks as she could getaway with. Its only the aggressive response of the black middle class that prevented her from accomplishing her goal. The British held them down and they were damned if some white American female was going to continue to do this.
You also need to stop repeating what I have said several times today. Did I contest the fact that 1964-1992 wasn't a hostile period for Indians, many deliberately being refused employment at places like Bank of GY and the ministries? NO!
So repeating that blacks did it too doesn't build up your point. I do NOT dispute that blacks did it too. I remind that that Indians ALSO did it as well.
caribny posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...and dem coolies voting against what ayoo one love party PNC do from 1964 to 1992 and how Burnham throw out de 50% Indos in the army the British leff. De same principle apply foh both side. Me even see that kanta economis TK write papah sayin de same ting what yu say and what de Labba say...hey hey hey.
Let us get some historical facts first. The PPP ran Guyana from 1957 until 1964 and Janet did her best to clean the civil service of as many blacks as she could getaway with. Its only the aggressive response of the black middle class that prevented her from accomplishing her goal. The British held them down and they were damned if some white American female was going to continue to do this.
You also need to stop repeating what I have said several times today. Did I contest the fact that 1964-1992 wasn't a hostile period for Indians, many deliberately being refused employment at places like Bank of GY and the ministries? NO!
So repeating that blacks did it too doesn't build up your point. I do NOT dispute that blacks did it too. I remind that that Indians ALSO did it as well.
Hey hey hey...Me nat argue wid yu bai. Me say both side gat dem valid story. Dat me learn from dat pagala economis bai TK. He gat wan fancy foh yuh histry and Janet do and what me say Burnham do wid de 50% Indos who was in de force de British leff. De pagala economis call it wan prisonman trap. Both side fear feed from de other side. Hey hey hey...TK seh how dat is what is endogenous or something like dat...hey hey hey...so what is yuh solution?
caribny posted:You need to stop finding moral equivalency. The Indo Nazis dont merely advocate for Indians and they have no need to as ronan, iguana, caribny and others will NOT argue against their claims.
What they do is claim "black man cannot run a mauby shop" (as if the PPP can), and stigmatize blacks as being criminal, violent, lazy and useless.
Does anyone here stigmatize Indians as cunning, money obsessed and immoral people who lack integrity? This being the stereotype that blacks have of Indians? No!
No, not one black poster here stereotypes Indians or even uses the C word, unless it is in quotes for reference. The allegedly "rich" and holy Bramanananananas and their following ought to take note that all their "money" can't buy class. The sheer putrid racism from these people, rolling so easily off their tongues is amazing to watch. Starting to agree with D2 that their racism may be genetic!
Their chants of "black man can't run......" are funny as hell. They run to black run Islands to get away from the horrors in Guyana, even DURING 23 years of PPP rule!
Iguana posted:!No, not one black poster here stereotypes Indians or even uses the C word, unless it is in quotes for reference.
In fact even in the unlikely event that anyone of us were inclined to do that the others would tell them not to.
Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
hey labba, yuh fat rass come back! Muss tell dem indo kkk hay like ugli man and he clan of imbeciles dat sharing one brain cell among dem, dat guyana gat nuff black man farming.
Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Yes it is clannish. But what is the alternative? Allow the PPP to systematically marginalize black Guyanese? We know that is what they will do, look at their supporters here!!!!!!. Similarly Indians ask what is the alternative to the PPP to protect Indian interests in what is also their homeland. I agree with Carib that there needs to be open dialog between both sides to air the grievances and map a way forward.
I likewise agree with D2 regarding the laws of the land. Whatever the dialogue between the 2 sides, it will not remove the disease of racism from people like Nehru, ugli and Dave. Their racism must be curtailed by policies which are enforced, that protect society from their almost genetic racism.
The suggestions of both D2 and Carib are not contrary to each other. They must actually work together.
Baseman posted:You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
The "forces that stopped them" are likewise terrorists operating in contravention of the laws of the land. You are a very worrisome chap! These bilious views of yours have given rise to genocides in the past!
Dave posted:Why have you and Iguana stayed away from Guyana. ( if I recalled correctly, Iguana claimed to left Guyana decades ago, he sk&nt wouldnât recognize GT with its rich lifestyle) Maybe Redux also.
Do you know the lifestyle of blacks now compare to PNC days.
Black people lifestyle was elevated under PPP government.
In the last 2 years ayo sk&nt punishment went back to 28 years of PNC government.
Daily you prove what an imbecile you are. Guh find de post where Gwana man "claimed to left Guyana decades ago". Mekking shit up as yuh go along.
Iguana posted:Baseman posted:You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
The "forces that stopped them" are likewise terrorists operating in contravention of the laws of the land. You are a very worrisome chap! These bilious views of yours have given rise to genocides in the past!
I guess you failed to notice, there was a slow genocide underway when the special forces stepped in! Or is it that Indian lives donât matter?
Iguana posted:Baseman posted:You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
The "forces that stopped them" are likewise terrorists operating in contravention of the laws of the land. You are a very worrisome chap! These bilious views of yours have given rise to genocides in the past!
Yall just vex that Indos finally took matters into their own hand and stopped the PnC aggression. You love yourself a passive Indo who you can smack around like a rag doll. The moment we start fighting back, yall rass suddenly take the "higher moral ground". Meanwhile while the pnc bandits were killing off Indos daily, yuh rass was happy like a pig in shyte. I notice that you mention that the great Drugb caused you to start posting on this forum. Now who's your daddy? Say it.
Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Yes it is clannish. But what is the alternative? Allow the PPP to systematically marginalize black Guyanese? We know that is what they will do, look at their supporters here!!!!!!. Similarly Indians ask what is the alternative to the PPP to protect Indian interests in what is also their homeland. I agree with Carib that there needs to be open dialog between both sides to air the grievances and map a way forward.
I likewise agree with D2 regarding the laws of the land. Whatever the dialogue between the 2 sides, it will not remove the disease of racism from people like Nehru, ugli and Dave. Their racism must be curtailed by policies which are enforced, that protect society from their almost genetic racism.
The suggestions of both D2 and Carib are not contrary to each other. They must actually work together.
We are directly at odds. I am appealing to established conflict theory and Caribj is in his own world. You cannot stop racists from being racists. You stop them from having institutional coverage.
The civil rights laws never asked that we question how racism developed in the society. That is for the historians and cultural anthropologists. Marshall sought to bring black people and other minorities under the bill of rights declaration that all men are created equal..
Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Yes it is clannish. But what is the alternative? Allow the PPP to systematically marginalize black Guyanese? We know that is what they will do, look at their supporters here!!!!!!. Similarly Indians ask what is the alternative to the PPP to protect Indian interests in what is also their homeland. I agree with Carib that there needs to be open dialog between both sides to air the grievances and map a way forward.
I likewise agree with D2 regarding the laws of the land. Whatever the dialogue between the 2 sides, it will not remove the disease of racism from people like Nehru, ugli and Dave. Their racism must be curtailed by policies which are enforced, that protect society from their almost genetic racism.
The suggestions of both D2 and Carib are not contrary to each other. They must actually work together.
Hey hey hey...Greenie bai so yu alternative is seize de govt and marginalize and discriminate against dem coolies na? Like from 1964 to 1992? Hey hey hey...
Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
hey labba, yuh fat rass come back! Muss tell dem indo kkk hay like ugli man and he clan of imbeciles dat sharing one brain cell among dem, dat guyana gat nuff black man farming.
Do is not wan problem foh de Labba...Labba is no racist preachin one love and social cohesion. Or projectin he racism pon other peopkle and go pray every Sunday but mek sure yuh discriminate against dem other side...hey hey hey...Labba know foh fact yu have nuff nuff nuff hard working small, medium and a few large farmer in Guyana who is blackman. What Labba want ayoo and dem also PPP dem coolies to understand dat farmin in Guyana is not easy and as profitable unless yuh gat certain central tings in place...
Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Greenie bai so yu alternative is seize de govt and marginalize and discriminate against dem coolies na? Like from 1964 to 1992? Hey hey hey...
Professa Labba, please point to where Gwana man state an "alternative" to "seize de govt and marginalize and discrimate against dem "coolies". You are a disingenious lying rat! You and yuh fren "dave" good at mekking up stories. A sure sign yuh on de losing end.
D2 posted:Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Blackman clannish too. Dem a only vote foh dem mattie. Abie gat one one exception. Blackman votin strong foh dem mattie. Doh is not clannish? hey hey hey...
Yes it is clannish. But what is the alternative? Allow the PPP to systematically marginalize black Guyanese? We know that is what they will do, look at their supporters here!!!!!!. Similarly Indians ask what is the alternative to the PPP to protect Indian interests in what is also their homeland. I agree with Carib that there needs to be open dialog between both sides to air the grievances and map a way forward.
I likewise agree with D2 regarding the laws of the land. Whatever the dialogue between the 2 sides, it will not remove the disease of racism from people like Nehru, ugli and Dave. Their racism must be curtailed by policies which are enforced, that protect society from their almost genetic racism.
The suggestions of both D2 and Carib are not contrary to each other. They must actually work together.
We are directly at odds. I am appealing to established conflict theory and Caribj is in his own world. You cannot stop racists from being racists. You stop them from having institutional coverage.
The civil rights laws never asked that we question how racism developed in the society. That is for the historians and cultural anthropologists. Marshall sought to bring black people and other minorities under the bill of rights declaration that all men are created equal..
You can appeal to conflict theory resolution. I get that. Carib is not in his own world, he is stating that dialogue is necessary between the 2 races. Why discount that? That Carib sees it as a prerequisite to forming policies and resolving the racist climate is something I disagree with. I do not see the 2 as mutually exclusive. They are both necessary and can be achieved together.
Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Greenie bai so yu alternative is seize de govt and marginalize and discriminate against dem coolies na? Like from 1964 to 1992? Hey hey hey...
Professa Labba, please point to where Gwana man state an "alternative" to "seize de govt and marginalize and discrimate against dem "coolies". You are a disingenious lying rat! You and yuh fren "dave" good at mekking up stories. A sure sign yuh on de losing end.
Well yuh know yuh bai dem trying to seize de ting. Anyhow labba is a big clean plumb eating delicious rat. So me tek yuh compliment
Baseman posted:I guess you failed to notice, there was a slow genocide underway when the special forces stepped in! Or is it that Indian lives donât matter?
Iguana, caribny, ronan have all acknowledged black racist attitudes towards Indians and the reasons why Indian suspicion of PNC is justified. Itanane did also until before the Indo supremacist attitudes which are promoted by GNI (Ray says he sees no evidence of this) drove him off. So too did most of the other blacks who have also left for similar reasons.
Now we hear Indians screaming "black man bad, Indian good, so black man must apologize". Now why should we care about Indian lives when YOU and 90% of the Indians on GNI dont give a damn about black lives?
Baseman posted:Iguana posted:Baseman posted:You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
The "forces that stopped them" are likewise terrorists operating in contravention of the laws of the land. You are a very worrisome chap! These bilious views of yours have given rise to genocides in the past!
I guess you failed to notice, there was a slow genocide underway when the special forces stepped in! Or is it that Indian lives donât matter?
Y'all are some serial liars hay. Fuss cousin dave, then labba rat and now you. Did I not clearly recognize the rights of Indians in Guyana, THEIR homeland and state my empathy for their reservations and concerns.
You are like a damn worm, slithering with statements and snippets lacking any veracity then slipping out after you are exposed. If you are interested in finding the killers of the Indians during that period then why don't you pick up Big Lips and alyuh guh ask Jagdeo?????? He said he know who the killers of those Indians were! And he was the President then, commander in chief with the authority to find them and execute justice!
Please don't respond with your mealy mouthed excuses! That you favor extra judicial means in a tense political climate is frightening. You are the kind of guy who will light the match and run away!
Iguana posted:Baseman posted:Iguana posted:Baseman posted:You need to stop finding the moral equivalency between the act of murderous terrorists killing unarmed civilians and the forces that stopped them.
The "forces that stopped them" are likewise terrorists operating in contravention of the laws of the land. You are a very worrisome chap! These bilious views of yours have given rise to genocides in the past!
I guess you failed to notice, there was a slow genocide underway when the special forces stepped in! Or is it that Indian lives donât matter?
Y'all are some serial liars hay. Fuss cousin dave, then labba rat and now you. Did I not clearly recognize the rights of Indians in Guyana, THEIR homeland and state my empathy for their reservations and concerns.
You are like a damn worm, slithering with statements and snippets lacking any veracity then slipping out after you are exposed. If you are interested in finding the killers of the Indians during that period then why don't you pick up Big Lips and alyuh guh ask Jagdeo?????? He said he know who the killers of those Indians were! And he was the President then, commander in chief with the authority to find them and execute justice!
Please don't respond with your mealy mouthed excuses! That you favor extra judicial means in a tense political climate is frightening. You are the kind of guy who will light the match and run away!
Hey hey hey...why we green salipenta so defensive? Hey hey hey...yuh know before Rajah Khan protect PPP dem bais like Waddel was on PNC channel 9 all day saying how dem will justify violence against dem Indos...hey hey hey. Den dem kidnap and kill people in Buxton, McDoom and Agricola. Hey hey hey...den de star bai Henry Green seh he can tek care of tings...hey hey hey. Of course de man smell opportunity because ayoo minista in granger govt and army advisor egg on de rebellion...hey hey hey. Dem bais get big wuk after 2015...hey hey hey.
D2 posted:We are directly at odds. I am appealing to established conflict theory
No D2 I am NOT in my own world. Look at the 1964, 1992, 1994, 1997, 2001, 2006, 2011, 2015, 2016, 2018, and I bet the 2019/20 elections and tell me that I live in my own world.
YOU live in your world of theory. I live in the real world where I understand that you need to go to where people dwell in order to take them where they need go to.
So sit down in your laboratory and tell the world what to do and then wail when they do otherwise.
Labba posted:Well yuh know yuh bai dem trying to seize de ting. Anyhow labba is a big clean plumb eating delicious rat. So me tek yuh compliment
I know nothing. Matter of fact I was hoping you, yuh powda poose flour face friend, Trotman, Hughes and suh on woulda give ahwe some hope a few years ago. Dat alyuh get conned by a bunch of ole army men is laff story.
And even mo funny is dat rat man and former fat man donald duck sitting in oppositon. Alyuh talk all dis shit, flour man get up and start imitating Obama, talking about "chaaaaaaaaa nnnnnge", doing he best impression, and dem old man neuter alyuh rass. LMFAO
Drugb posted:Yall just vex that Indos finally took matters into their own hand and stopped the PnC aggression.
And what did they do? They developed a private militia of rogue GDF/cops and former GDF/cops, disproportionately black. This organized by an internationally wanted criminal who worked for Colombian drug cartels, and who is now languishing in a US jail.
You sure that this will happen again?
caribny posted:Drugb posted:Yall just vex that Indos finally took matters into their own hand and stopped the PnC aggression.
And what did they do? They developed a private militia of rogue GDF/cops and former GDF/cops, disproportionately black. This organized by an internationally wanted criminal who worked for Colombian drug cartels, and who is now languishing in a US jail.
You sure that this will happen again?
Hey hey hey...doh is de USD 5 million queshton. Dem cyant pull dat off anymore. Dis is why Jagdoe overplay he hand. Even dunce labba know dem ---delicious plum eating fat sweet labba -- people going to challenge dem. And there is nothin dem can do. Steet sense meet he limitation...hey hey hey.
D2 posted:The civil rights laws never asked that we question how racism developed in the society. T
With due respect to you D2 do you think that the civil rights laws solved racism or the many challenges that blacks and other nonwhites have in this country.
In 2016 a white supremacist bigot was elected, 50 years after the civil rights laws.
So yes understanding the underpinning of racism is important.
Labba posted:Hey hey hey...doh is de USD 5 million queshton. Dem cyant pull dat off anymore. Dis is why Jagdoe overplay he hand. Even dunce labba know dem ---delicious plum eating fat sweet labba -- people going to challenge dem. And there is nothin dem can do. Steet sense meet he limitation...hey hey hey.
Maybe Jagdeo plans to have Maduro invade if he doesnt have his way. Its not a coincidence that the Venoz made their move at this time.
I will not forget May 2015 when Jagdeo and Maduro said the same things, word for word about the new Coalition gov't. I bet they had a lengthy telephone conversation.
Iguana posted:That Carib sees it as a prerequisite to forming policies and resolving the racist climate is something I disagree with. I do not see the 2 as mutually exclusive. They are both necessary and can be achieved together.
I actually see that as two simultaneous activities.
What is needed is an analysis of the contemporary reasons for ethnic angst. This not being "dialogue between the races" as I dont consider either blacks nor Indians to be monolithic, nor do I think that either has unique spokespeople credible enough to advocate for them.
We need to know why this ethnic angst. Now all of us on GNI have our opinions but a broader view is needed. Also given that in 2012 only 70% of the population identifies as "African" or "East Indian" then clearly the Amerindians, and others need to be factored in. Inclusive of our emerging Latin population as more Brazilians, Cubans and Venezuelans begin to live in Guyana.
Also who are these "mixed" identified people and to what extent does this self description impact their ethno political behavior? Within a generation mixed identified people will be the largest "ethnic" bloc.
While all of this is being undertaken we need to have a serious review of the constitution as it is increasingly inadequate. The PPP in 1992, and the Coalition in 2015 promised to deal with this and neither did. Anil Nandlall wrote some nonsense a while back, screaming that the PPP revised the constitution, but clearly if it did Guyanese weren't involved, because most insist that it needs revision.
We should not allow politicians to develop this new constitution. Guyanese have very weak civil society. We move about as individuals in an opportunistic way, leaving every thing for the politicians and then we blame them when they behave as politicians all over the world behave.
A committee should be developed consisting of representatives from the length and breadth of Guyana. It ensure that the diversity of Guyanese as defined by its ethnicity, its religions, its occupations, and its geographic regions should be involved. No political parties should be part of this process. This to ensure that some cozy arrangement to protect the interests of two corrupt, incompetent and race based entities is dumped on the nation.
In the interim I think that we should serious consider some sort of gov't of national unity until such a constitution be agreed upon, subject of course to referendum. 50:50 so that they will both have to cooperate to get things done, or waste time fighting and undermining their credibility, without getting anything done.
The constitution committee should have a fixed time to complete their task. After a referendum is held and the constitution adapted and voted in by parliament then an election can be held. The hope is that this will be the first election which isnt a tribal war. It shouldn't be because by then we should understand why our ethnic angst and we should have a constitutional framework and a system of governance that allows Guyana to function.
I dont know what D2 is talking about because he is very vague but I do know that in places where measures were put in place without recognition of the underlying issues all that happened was that plaster was placed on a septic sore. South Africa being case in point.
caribny posted:Drugb posted:Yall just vex that Indos finally took matters into their own hand and stopped the PnC aggression.
And what did they do? They developed a private militia of rogue GDF/cops and former GDF/cops, disproportionately black. This organized by an internationally wanted criminal who worked for Colombian drug cartels, and who is now languishing in a US jail.
You sure that this will happen again?
Even dutty wata does out fiah, they were effective, pnc aggression was halted. The end of slow fiah, no fiah, Corbin could not get a score of hooligans to burn and loot. Then Ramoutar was elected and the pnc beast reared its ugly head once again.
Drugb posted:Even dutty wata does out fiah, they were effective, pnc aggression was halted. The end of slow fiah, no fiah, Corbin could not get a score of hooligans to burn and loot. Then Ramoutar was elected and the pnc beast reared its ugly head once again.
Ok druggie I understand why you love the phantoms. Those BIG BLACK Baigans are such that you still undergo orgasms after more than a decade.
Because you do know that most of those phantoms were blacks. Yes Jagdeo and others were laughing at getting blacks paid by Indians to kill other blacks.
caribny posted:Drugb posted:Even dutty wata does out fiah, they were effective, pnc aggression was halted. The end of slow fiah, no fiah, Corbin could not get a score of hooligans to burn and loot. Then Ramoutar was elected and the pnc beast reared its ugly head once again.
Ok druggie I understand why you love the phantoms. Those BIG BLACK Baigans are such that you still undergo orgasms after more than a decade.
Because you do know that most of those phantoms were blacks. Yes Jagdeo and others were laughing at getting blacks paid by Indians to kill other blacks.
Doesn't matter what color, a solution was found for pnc slow fiah mo fiah, their once trump card was nullified until Ramgoat took over.
Labba posted:Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
hey labba, yuh fat rass come back! Muss tell dem indo kkk hay like ugli man and he clan of imbeciles dat sharing one brain cell among dem, dat guyana gat nuff black man farming.
Do is not wan problem foh de Labba...Labba is no racist preachin one love and social cohesion. Or projectin he racism pon other peopkle and go pray every Sunday but mek sure yuh discriminate against dem other side...hey hey hey...Labba know foh fact yu have nuff nuff nuff hard working small, medium and a few large farmer in Guyana who is blackman. What Labba want ayoo and dem also PPP dem coolies to understand dat farmin in Guyana is not easy and as profitable unless yuh gat certain central tings in place...
Farming will be profitible when we start flash freezing excess and when we start making ready to eat frozen foods etc. All of that needs power and supposedly that is coming soon...a years time
Iguana posted:You can appeal to conflict theory resolution. I get that. Carib is not in his own world, he is stating that dialogue is necessary between the 2 races. Why discount that? That Carib sees it as a prerequisite to forming policies and resolving the racist climate is something I disagree with. I do not see the 2 as mutually exclusive. They are both necessary and can be achieved together.
I wish it were dialog he suggests. As I have been told often enough he wants indians to bend t he knees and apologize. That is silly. First it ain't going to happen, it is not necessary and black people are not saints. Dialog starts naturally as each side figure out the new rules.
If for example there is constituency level legislative elections with designated districts, people have to compete and appeal to everyone. If there is a multi-vote system people cannot vote ethnically but must vote real choice or they risk losing their best candidate.
Lots of other areas of cooperation can be coerced by proper systems and with communal interactions at the interstices of the cultures, nationalism is born.
caribny posted:D2 posted:We are directly at odds. I am appealing to established conflict theory
No D2 I am NOT in my own world. Look at the 1964, 1992, 1994, 1997, 2001, 2006, 2011, 2015, 2016, 2018, and I bet the 2019/20 elections and tell me that I live in my own world.
YOU live in your world of theory. I live in the real world where I understand that you need to go to where people dwell in order to take them where they need go to.
So sit down in your laboratory and tell the world what to do and then wail when they do otherwise.
What I say has been practiced in many european nations and the community itself. Malaysia, Taiwan, Singapore Ireland, all are practical expressions on needs based conflict transformation.
caribny posted:Iguana posted:That Carib sees it as a prerequisite to forming policies and resolving the racist climate is something I disagree with. I do not see the 2 as mutually exclusive. They are both necessary and can be achieved together.I actually see that as two simultaneous activities.
What is needed is an analysis of the contemporary reasons for ethnic angst. This not being "dialogue between the races" as I dont consider either blacks nor Indians to be monolithic, nor do I think that either has unique spokespeople credible enough to advocate for them.
...I dont know what D2 is talking about because he is very vague but I do know that in places where measures were put in place without recognition of the underlying issues all that happened was that plaster was placed on a septic sore. South Africa being case in point.
The reasons for ethnic disunity is always in culture, religion, land, oppression. If culture and religion is allowed to be freely expressed, land problems addressed equitably and systems placed to supervise and coerce compliance, dispute and competition is decreased proportionally.
Constitutions are to be developed by a cross section of our people with our thinkers and legal scholars guiding the path. Every community should be invested by having the principal portions that define the government be vetted locally and informed opinion develop when it is put to a referendum. What the Granger regime did is passed it off to political elites, some of whom are greedy bitches.
I am not vague. I cannot tell you what is necessary. That is like asking me to write t he document. I can tell you the scope, a bill of rights....a system that devolves local processes to local people, and enumerated rights of office with everything else not mentioned defaulting back to the people. I can suggest we have a bicameral system ( in this instance) since over lapping constituencies in an upper house can help with cooperation between majority ethnic groups in districts of the lower house. I can say we need a primary system for selecting eligible candidates for office and that we need a cabinet that is made up by the best in the society who must be nominated and approve by a majority vote in both houses. I can suggest a variety of electoral systems to mediate ethnic dominance but these are all issues to be proposed, debated and the best selected then the nation approves.
I can be vague in the systems part because there are dozens of arrangement that can suit our needs.
Drugb posted:Doesn't matter what color,
And here was I thinking that you only liked baigans when they were big and black. Apparently you also take white ones as well.
D2 posted:What I say has been practiced in many european nations and the community itself. Malaysia, Taiwan, Singapore Ireland, all are practical expressions on needs based conflict transformation.
Malaysia and Singapore still have ethnic issues, papered over only because a single ethnic group is dominant so the minorities have to be quiet. Northern Ireland's problems are hardly resolved and there are fears that Brexit might reactivate the tensions. I wasn't aware that Taiwan had two ethnic groups, almost equal in size and power.
We dont talk about Brazil's ethnic issues or Cuba's even though they exist. The blacks and other darker people are so over powered that they can murmur, but pretty much must accept status quo.
Guyana has two groups, both strong enough to seriously damage the other, so neither interested in accepting status quo. Do you think that Charran is seen as a hero because of his "conscience". No he represents revenge against those who betrayed the tribe (Nagamootoo and Ramjattan). When Hoyte told Green to behave himself when the PNC lost in 1992 he was similarly considered a traitor and as a result the PNC lost the GT mayoralty in 1994.
D2 posted:
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Constitutions are to be developed by a cross section of our people with our thinkers and legal scholars guiding the path. Every community should be invested by having the principal portions that define the government be vetted locally and informed opinion develop when it is put to a referendum. What the Granger regime did is passed it off to political elites, some of whom are greedy bitches.
This process is as I described. I use the term Civic but the process is the same and both you and I are concerned that this process should NOT be in the hands of the politicians. Once a constitution is developed than it goes through the parliamentary process and is subject to referendum. If the population agrees with that which is then presented to them (as developed by civic stake holders and not political parties) then it is implemented.
My concern (and not yours) is that the political structure is not the only reason for our ethnic angst.
If the second largest group feel that the political structure blunts their ability to respond to private sector bias against them they might be forced to use methods outside of the legal system. At the end of the day its bread and butter issues which concern people.
That is why I insist that while we work on the constitutional aspect we need also to analyze the underlying reasons for the ethnic angst, because I can assure you that Afro Guyanese frame their dilemma within economic terms. The ethnic angst is way more complex now than it once was and Amerindians can no longer be ignored from this debate. Nor can this "mixed" group who will be the largest in a generation.
Long gone are the days when this is seen purely in terms of whether the PNC can win elections are not. Volda's crude rant was because blacks were claiming that they were still being economically excluded, even with a PNC dominated gov't.
South Africa didn't deal with its underlying ethnic angst which is why its a boiling cauldron now.
caribny posted:D2 posted:What I say has been practiced in many european nations and the community itself. Malaysia, Taiwan, Singapore Ireland, all are practical expressions on needs based conflict transformation.
Malaysia and Singapore still have ethnic issues, papered over only because a single ethnic group is dominant so the minorities have to be quiet. Northern Ireland's problems are hardly resolved and there are fears that Brexit might reactivate the tensions. I wasn't aware that Taiwan had two ethnic groups, almost equal in size and power.
We dont talk about Brazil's ethnic issues or Cuba's even though they exist. The blacks and other darker people are so over powered that they can murmur, but pretty much must accept status quo.
Guyana has two groups, both strong enough to seriously damage the other, so neither interested in accepting status quo. Do you think that Charran is seen as a hero because of his "conscience". No he represents revenge against those who betrayed the tribe (Nagamootoo and Ramjattan). When Hoyte told Green to behave himself when the PNC lost in 1992 he was similarly considered a traitor and as a result the PNC lost the GT mayoralty in 1994.
Nothing is perfect. Anything beyond the blackman/coolieman paradigm is better for us.
Ireland is not in flames and the people no longer hide in their houses and bombs are not going off in the street left and right. Brexit is a different beast.
Taiwan had to deal with the new comers who were mainly army folks fighting on the mainlanders and the local chinese. They were the same ethnicity but the alienation was outsiders vs insiders.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with what we are talking about but the pathology arising from it.
D2 posted
Nothing is perfect. Anything beyond the blackman/coolieman paradigm is better for us.
Ireland is not in flames and the people no longer hide in their houses and bombs are not going off in the street left and right. Brexit is a different beast.
Taiwan had to deal with the new comers who were mainly army folks fighting on the mainlanders and the local chinese. They were the same ethnicity but the alienation was outsiders vs insiders.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with what we are talking about but the pathology arising from it.
Well we are stuck with the blackman/coolie just as South Africa is stuck with its kaffirs/boers until these groups begin to feel more secure.
That which holds up Brexit is significantly the issue with Northern Ireland. The fear is if not handled properly the flames will glow again. If the existing constitutional arrangements were sufficient to prevent ethno- religious conflict the UK would be leaving the EU not caring about the problems that this would present to ease of travel between Ireland and Northern Ireland. But there are still underlying identities and potential for conflict.
The issue with Taiwan is different from Guyana. 95% are Han Chinese. The fact that some arrived before others is no more relevant than a squabble between people from Linden and GT. It doesnt rise to ethnic angst. The native Taiwanese are a dominated, and I bet, an impoverished minority group.
So I have yet to see an arrangement where underlying ethnic angst by two groups almost comparable in clout, can be ignored.
D2 posted:Labba posted:Iguana posted:Labba posted:Hey hey hey...Greenie like yuh is a prentend Guyanese. Hey hey hey...Guyana gat nuff blackman farmers. Abie use to buy coconut aile every week fram wan blackman farmer from Buxton. Hey hey hey...
hey labba, yuh fat rass come back! Muss tell dem indo kkk hay like ugli man and he clan of imbeciles dat sharing one brain cell among dem, dat guyana gat nuff black man farming.
Do is not wan problem foh de Labba...Labba is no racist preachin one love and social cohesion. Or projectin he racism pon other peopkle and go pray every Sunday but mek sure yuh discriminate against dem other side...hey hey hey...Labba know foh fact yu have nuff nuff nuff hard working small, medium and a few large farmer in Guyana who is blackman. What Labba want ayoo and dem also PPP dem coolies to understand dat farmin in Guyana is not easy and as profitable unless yuh gat certain central tings in place...
Farming will be profitible when we start flash freezing excess and when we start making ready to eat frozen foods etc. All of that needs power and supposedly that is coming soon...a years time
Yea dem Guyanese does eat nuff freeze food when dem come to Merika. Hey hey hey...
Labba posted:Yea dem Guyanese does eat nuff freeze food when dem come to Merika. Hey hey hey...
flash frozen foods are as good as fresh food. We suffer too much loss when the shelf life of food is only a day.
We also need to establish a modern brokering/factoring/ assigning process to move foods to processing plants. The idea of millers taking farmers paddy and not paying them tells how poor this financial strategy. If a factor guarantee the milling fees and paid the farmer the money gets into the system quicker. I have friends who plant bell pepper in Florida and the crop is paid for in the field before the harvest.
caribny posted:D2 posted
Nothing is perfect. Anything beyond the blackman/coolieman paradigm is better for us.
Ireland is not in flames and the people no longer hide in their houses and bombs are not going off in the street left and right. Brexit is a different beast.
Taiwan had to deal with the new comers who were mainly army folks fighting on the mainlanders and the local chinese. They were the same ethnicity but the alienation was outsiders vs insiders.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with what we are talking about but the pathology arising from it.
Well we are stuck with the blackman/coolie just as South Africa is stuck with its kaffirs/boers until these groups begin to feel more secure.
That which holds up Brexit is significantly the issue with Northern Ireland. The fear is if not handled properly the flames will glow again. If the existing constitutional arrangements were sufficient to prevent ethno- religious conflict the UK would be leaving the EU not caring about the problems that this would present to ease of travel between Ireland and Northern Ireland. But there are still underlying identities and potential for conflict.
The issue with Taiwan is different from Guyana. 95% are Han Chinese. The fact that some arrived before others is no more relevant than a squabble between people from Linden and GT. It doesnt rise to ethnic angst. The native Taiwanese are a dominated, and I bet, an impoverished minority group.
So I have yet to see an arrangement where underlying ethnic angst by two groups almost comparable in clout, can be ignored.
You are confused as hell. Brexit has nothing to do with what was signed in the cessation of the irish problem. That is Britain's own problem.
It does not matter if the conflict is ethnic, religious, land etc they present similar as satisfying human needs and mutually agreeing to live in a system that monitors the satiation of those needs are not impossible tasks. Otherwise as an intelligent specie we would have wiped each out already. More people try to find solutions to conflict than not so we are still here.
Why black people and coolie people are racist is not my concern. What is my concern is that they do not use the state to satiate expressions of their dissatisfaction as is occurring today.
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