A SALUTE TO INDIAN GUYANESE

May 15, 2019 News, Kaieteur, https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...-to-indian-guyanese/

By Donald Ramotar, Former President

May 5, 2019 marked the 181st year since Indian indentured labourers set foot on the soil of the then British Guiana. It was a Saturday, but I am sure that when they saw the conditions that they had to dwell and work in, their hearts must have been heavy.

Slavery was just about to be officially ended and Indian indentured labourers were brought in to fill the vacancy that was being created by the freed African slaves.

It should be recalled that slavery ended due to the coming together of many factors. Firstly, the resistance, reflected in the revolts by the enslaved against the system; secondly, the work of the Humanitarians in the UK, the Anti-Slavery society, which produced people like Buxton and John Edwards Jenkins, among others.

The combination of those struggles made slavery as a system too expensive to continue. Therefore, it had to be replaced with a system that would be cheaper. The colonial power struck on the scheme of indentured labour.

True, the indentured were not completely owned by the plantations forever. They were contracted for five-year periods. However, they had to live in the logies, and they had to find their own food and clothing.
In reality they were owned by the plantation for a specific time.

A new form of slavery

The colonial power did not only exploit their labour in the cane fields, but set-up shops to sell them food, clothing and whatever else they could afford. The plantation owners were freed from supplying these necessities, which they had to during slavery. From their meagre earning stores like Bookers Stores flourished.

Indian labourers, like the enslaved before them, were beaten in the backdams. Jenkins, in his book ‘The Coolie’ and other writers in that period, described the dehumanisation that those people had to endure.

Tied to post, stripped naked, male and female, were flogged with the whip often.

The ‘Coolie’ according to narrative of the period, was either at work, in hospital or in jail. While in jail he was often forced to work for free on the plantations.

Like the slaves before them, the Indian labourers did not only cut and load the canes, but had to dig the canals. Walter Rodney, in one of his epic works “A history of the Guyanese Working People 1881 – 1905” noted that, “When Indian indentured labourers were added to the Guyanese population… they had to face up to the steady work diet of mud and water in the maintenance of dams and the cleaning of trenches.

“For a long while, Africans remained the specialist shovel men, but a report on the digging of the new canal aback of the Plantation Annandale in 1895 drew attention to the…fact that the task was accomplished by Indian immigrants…”. In the process they had to move hundreds of thousands tons of water logged clay with shovels.

At times of low prices of sugar on the international market, the planters solved the problem at the expense of the bound Indian indentured labour. Wages to them were cut.

In the same book, cited above, Walter Rodney brought attention to a notice signed by the attorney of Non-Pareil plantation, Harry Garnett, informing the workers that their wages were being cut.

Here is how it read in part “Owing to the exceedingly LOW price of SUGAR…it is absolutely impossible for us to pay the OLD RATE OF WAGES and carry the estate on; I am aware that even the Old Rates were a reduced rate, but under the circumstances there is nothing for it but to still further reduce all round…” (September 1896).

Obviously those repressive conditions forced the Indian labour to resist and resist they did. In 1872 the Indian labourers at Plantation Devonshire Castle on the Essequibo Coast went on strike and protested against low wages.

The police opened fire on them; seven were severely wounded. Those described as “ring leaders” were punished. They were whipped and jailed.

In 1873 workers at Skeldon, Uitvlugt and other areas struck, protesting low wages and the importation of cheaper labour from Barbados. For this, three of the leaders were given five-year jail sentences, of course with hard labour, inevitably in the cane fields.

In 1879 riot broke out at Plantation Skeldon, again protesting low wages. Sixteen workers were badly injured and were hospitalized.

In 1894 strikes and protests occurred at Plantation La Bonne Mere, Success, Leguan, Farm and Skeldon. Once more, they were brutally suppressed. Identified leaders were fined, flogged and jailed.

In 1896, the cut in wages due, as noted above, to the fall in international price led to disturbances at Non-Pareil. Police shot and killed four workers and wounded eleven others.

In 1899 strikes were widespread at Melville (Wakenaam), Golden Fleece, Blairmont, Goedverwagting, De Kinderen, Mon Repos, Cane Grove, Success, Cornelia Ida and Nismes. The main cause was low wages. Those strikes also occurred widely in 1900. In 1903, the strikes assumed widespread proportions affecting all the estates once more.

In 1905 sugar workers from the East Bank walked towards Georgetown to give solidarity to striking waterfront workers, while raising their own plight of low wages and terrible conditions of work and living conditions.

They were stopped at Ruimveldt and police opened fire on them killing eight and wounding fifteen others. One hundred and five were convicted of rioting and punished in various ways.

In 1912 the Manager, R. E. Brassington shot and killed a worker at Plantation Friends. Later that same year during a protest, a shot fired from the Manager’s house at Lusignan injured Nankoo, a worker on the estate.

The next year, 1913, police shot and killed fifteen workers and seriously injured fourteen. This occurred at Rose Hall, Canje.

In 1924, sugar workers from the East Bank once more marched towards Georgetown to join striking workers in Georgetown and once more they were stopped and shot at Ruimveldt. This time thirteen sugar workers were killed several others injured.

From 1935 to 1939 the dissatisfaction with wages and working conditions led to the struggle for the recognition of a union. The MPCA, then led by Ayube Edun, a distinguished Trade Unionist, won recognition for that union to represent them.

In 1948 the strike which began as a protest against the changing of the system of work evolved into the demand for the recognition of the union of the workers choice, GIWU. By then the workers had lost confidence in the MPCA which was recognised after the strike of 1939 after four workers were shot to death and four others seriously injured at Leonora.

In 1964, many workers died in a general strike in the industry fighting for the recognition of the GAWU. Kowsilla, a female sugar worker, was run over by a tractor driven by a scab. She was cut in half. Many others were injured.

Mr. Harry Lall and Philomena Sahoy rose to prominence as President and General Secretary of the GAWU.

That recognition did not come in 1964. It took many other struggles to force the sugar lords and the government to hold a poll in 1975. The GAWU won with more than 95% of the votes cast. Recognition was finally wrested from the Sugar Producers Association and Government in 1976.

The struggle of Indian Guyanese since the first arrival in 1838 benefitted all the peoples of our country. While many of the protests began due to local issues, they quickly developed national characteristics and made a hefty contribution in advancing the cause of the nation as a whole.

The strike at Leonora in 1939 that saw the unionization of the workers was of great importance in the evolution of our trade union movement as a whole. It was the most important event in promoting Trade Unionism since the 1905 Water Front movement that gave birth to Trade Unions in Guyana.

The strike and struggles of 1948 developed into the call for political independence. The workers and the masses recognized that the brutality would continue and get worse while colonialism existed. Sugar workers were in the forefront in the fight to end colonialism and for freedom for all our people.

The battles from 1948 to 1976 for union recognition were not only for sugar workers benefit but for industrial democracy in Guyana.

The 177 days strike in 1977 was for the protection of a fundamental trade union principle; the right of collective bargaining. Here the cause of workers as a whole was being taken up by sugar workers. The PNC government had reneged on their argument to pay public servants $14 per day. The sugar workers fought courageously for 177 days to defend this principle.

The struggles from 1905 and 1924 were for the unity of the working class. It was Indian indentured labourers at the time with no central leadership, that took the initiative to push for working class unity, crossing all artificial barriers of race etc.

The fight for democracy began long before the advent of our present day political parties. Those positions were ably represented by people like Ayube Edun and others as they tirelessly worked to wrestle concessions from the hands of the colonial powers.

The British Guiana East Indian Association (BGEIA) was the first organisation to raise the call for universal adult suffrage. At that time the ordinary working people of all races in this country did not have the right to vote.

This was a demand to get working people involved in the establishment of the government. It was an important early call for workers and farmers to influence political developments.

That struggle was won by the PPP in 1953 under the leadership of Cheddi Jagan, a son of Indentured labourers.

The real reason for the disturbances in the 1960s which culminated the ethnic cleansing of Mackenzie, now Linden is often masked by some historian still infected with a colonial mentality as a racial problem. It was not.

The attack on Indians and the violence meted out against them at that time was a colonial project in which the PNC collaborated to create conditions to prevent Guyana from becoming independent.

An examination of that period would show that the police, headed by a colonialist, Peter Owen, was used to protect those who were creating the riots and not the victims of the violence. The record would show from 1962 to 1964 very few arrests were made during the riots in Georgetown and Mackenzie. However during the strikes on the estates hundreds of workers were jailed. Indeed so glaring was the partisan nature of the colonial police that they made it illegal for anyone to have and expose the PNC terrorists X13 plan that was discovered when a raid was made on the hotel room of a PNC terrorist.

In the post-independence period the PPP at first, later joined by other forces, fought for the restoration of democracy at the heart of which was ‘one person one vote’. That was necessary because it was lost due to rigged elections practised from 1968 until 1985.

Today, the signs are that this behaviour of rigged elections is being prepared by the APNU/AFC once more.

We can go on listing the contributions Indian indentured labourers and their descendants made to agriculture, industry, business commerce and culture as being very significant and laudable.

While we recognize these sterling contributions, we must not ignore the desperate plight which Indian Guyanese have had to confront from the time of their arrival 181 years ago.

From that time Indians have been the most discriminated against in Guyana. This was first done by the colonial powers who treated them as second class citizens. Later they became objects of abuse by the undemocratic PNC regime and now by this PNC-led regime.

The PNC was first supported and protected by the Colonial powers to prevent Independence. When the PNC took power in 1964 they adopted the positions of the old Colonials and ruled in a similar manner. While all our working people suffered greatly Indian Guyanese suffered doubly, as working people and because of their race.

Under successive PNC and PNC-led regimes racial and political discrimination against Indian Guyanese continued unabated. This was again evident in May 2015 when the APNU/AFC took power. The public service has been systematically cleansed of Guyanese of Indian origin.

The vast majority have been dismissed simply because they are Indian Guyanese. They are the victims of a vicious regime that promotes and practices racism as a political weapon.

The APNU+AFC regime has trampled on the Constitution and the fundamental human rights of all Guyanese but of Indian Guyanese in particular.

The shutting down of sugar estates in which some 70% of the employees were Indian Guyanese, with no real justifiable reason, is a reflection of the way all Indians are treated in our multi-ethnic society. The leadership of the Government has made a mockery of our national motto.

Since the arrival of Indians on our shores they have been deliberately barred from some sectors of the society. This is in the public service and in the security sector. This is not an accident but a deliberate, racist policy, continued from the time of colonialism.

They were denied places in the security forces in the colonial times because they worked in the most important section of the economy, sugar. The colonial masters did not want them there since they were brutally exploited in the fields and factories in the sugar industry.

Today they continue to be excluded because the colonialist before and the PNC now, succeeded in creating fear in the African-Guyanese population. The message is that Indians are a threat to their jobs and well-being.

It is the old tactic of divide and rule. A small elite, in colonial times a white elite, and now a mainly Black elite live the ‘good life’ at the expense of both Africa and Indian working people.

All Guyanese, including the Afro-Guyanese population, must fight against all forms of racial discrimination. This is necessary, not only because racism is morally wrong but also because in the final analysis the whole country will suffer the negative consequences of such a policy.

There is no way that any government can discriminate against one section of the population without hurting all people, including those they claim to represent. Fighting to end all discrimination is in the interest of all oppressed, unemployed, underemployed and poor people in Guyana.

Racism robs our nation of the skills of almost half of our country’s population. It condemns us to poverty and is a great waste of human resources.

Now is the time for all decent minded and democratically inclined people to take a stand to rid our country of this great scrooge, this impediment to progress.

On the occasion of the 181st anniversary of Indians’ arrival we should redouble the efforts of making the slogan, coined by the then Minister of Education Brindley Benn, of One People, One Nation, One Destiny a reality!

Original Post
Ray posted:
Nehru posted:

Bharat Mata Ki Jai.  WE WILL OVERCOME!!!

wha ayuh gon overcome...ress yuh rass

We shall overcome some day!!! Sing aloud Riff. The Monsters called the PNC will NOT deny us of our freedom, our RIGHTS and our humanity.

Nehru posted:
Ray posted:
Nehru posted:

Bharat Mata Ki Jai.  WE WILL OVERCOME!!!

wha ayuh gon overcome...ress yuh rass

We shall overcome some day!!! Sing aloud Riff. The Monsters called the PNC will NOT deny us of our freedom, our RIGHTS and our humanity.

Overseas hero, why don't u book a flight to Guyana and sing dis tune. Dem Guyanese people looking for lil inspiration. Ow bai, guh nah. 

Nehru posted:
Ray posted:
Nehru posted:

Bharat Mata Ki Jai.  WE WILL OVERCOME!!!

wha ayuh gon overcome...ress yuh rass

We shall overcome some day!!! Sing aloud Riff. The Monsters called the PNC will NOT deny us of our freedom, our RIGHTS and our humanity.

Yall Indos like to turn the other cheek. ..always like Martin Luther King and Mahatama Ghandi...

why yall cowards cant be like Walta Rodney and Malcom X and sing a new song...like BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY....maybe then yall gon get some RESPECT, no?

Demerara_Guy posted:

A SALUTE TO INDIAN GUYANESE

May 15, 2019 News, Kaieteur, https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...-to-indian-guyanese/

By Donald Ramotar, Former President

 

Donald Ramotar is no historian like Rodney and Jagan.

I once did a term paper on this topic, out of curiosity, a year ago. I think Donald made some fundamental mistakes....maybe the historians here can correct me...

1) It was not the BGEIA that first advocated for universal adult suffrage. There were other organizations and political leaders like Critchlow and other African leaders who formed the first labor union (I believe) and who advocated for adult suffrage. The BGEIA, and later the PPP took on this challenge.

2) Ramotar paints a history of the race problem as if the Europeans are to be blamed for perpetuating this problem in Guyana. Thats what idiotic Marxists do...he ignores the 28 years and the 23 years when both the PNC and PPP perpetuated the problem and neither party mde serious attempts to solve the problem.

3) He provides a bias view of history which paints the PPP and its leaders as the saviors of Guyana...and the PNC totally to be blamed for the current problems between Indos and Afros...

jes my 2 cents....

Demerara_Guy posted:

A SALUTE TO INDIAN GUYANESE

May 15, 2019 News, Kaieteur, https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...-to-indian-guyanese/

By Donald Ramotar, Former President

the cleaning of trenches.

“For a long while, Africans remained the specialist shovel men, but a report on the digging of the new canal aback of the Plantation Annandale in 1895 drew attention to the…fact that the task was accomplished by Indian immigrants…”. In the process they had to move hundreds of thousands tons of water logged

The attack on Indians and the violence meted out against them at that time was a colonial project in which the PNC collaborated to create conditions to prevent Guyana from becoming independent.

An.

The shutting down of sugar estates in which some 70% of the employees were Indian Guyanese, with no real justifiable reason, is a reflection of the way all Indians are treated in our multi-ethnic society. The leadership of the Government has made a mockery of our national motto.

Since the arrival of Indians on our shores they have been deliberately barred from some sectors of the society. This is in the public service and in the security sector. This is not an accident but a deliberate, racist policy, continued from the time of colonialism.

They were denied places in the security forces in the colonial times because they worked in the most important section of the economy, sugar. The colonial masters did not want them there since they were brutally exploited in the fields and factories in the sugar industry.

Today they continue to be excluded because the colonialist before and the PNC now, succeeded in creating fear in the African-Guyanese population. The message is that Indians are a threat to their jobs and well-being.

It is the old tactic of divide and rule. A small elite, in colonial times a white elite, and now a mainly Black elite live the ‘good life’ at the expense of both Africa and Indian working people.

All Guyanese, including the Afro-Guyanese population, must fight against all forms of racial discrimination. This is necessary, not only because racism is morally wrong but also because in the final analysis the whole country will suffer the negative consequences of such a policy.

 

1.  I do not recall Ramotar or the PPP writing any commentary on Afro Guyanese other than a condescending attitude to these "poor victims of slavery" or alternatively damning them as violent savages committed only to raping, robbing and killing Indians.  Left to the PPP we would bge ignorant of the strong contributions to the development of Guyana that was made by Guyanese of African descent.

So why does the PPP describe itself as "multi-ethnic" and then give such a one sided analysis of Guyanese history?

And then none other than Rohee screamed that his daughter wasn't racist when she described blacks as "low class people".  He did not see where the racism in that comment was.

2.  The PPP showed no consideration at all for selling its bauxite companies knowing full well that the result would be massively unemployment of the majority African labor force.  To this day they admit no guilt and scream that former bauxite workers have nothing to scream about.

3.  Ramotar completely shyts on the recollections of the 1960s which Afro Guyanese will have, including peddling the lies about X13 when in fact it was the PYO which killed people on the Son Chapman. Showing no interest in admitting that there are many other perspectives of this era than those that he adheres to.

Having insulted Afro Guyanese who then screams that Afro Guyanese ought to condemn discrimination.  100% of the discrimination that he describes is that suffered by 100%.  100% of the post colonial discriminations that he describes he blames Afro Guyanese for.

Yes he will cloak his blatant bigotry and HATRED of Afro Guyanese by ranting about "working class solidarity" but where was the compassion for the bauxite workers after 2000 when Jagdeo dumped them into starvation?

yuji22 posted:

One people one nation one destiny. 

 

Of course in your world only Indians are people.

Look at you and Skeldon screaming honor killing of any family member of yours that brings disgrace if they marry a black person.  Look at the endless screams of "blacks are a scourge", "black man lazy", etc. coming from your poisonous finger tips.  And the issue is you don't even see this behavior as racist, whereas you scream that my commentary about this is.

You view blacks just as did those whites in Jim Crow USA and apartheid South Africa.

VishMahabir posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

A SALUTE TO INDIAN GUYANESE

May 15, 2019 News, Kaieteur, https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...-to-indian-guyanese/

By Donald Ramotar, Former President

 

Donald Ramotar is no historian like Rodney and Jagan.

I once did a term paper on this topic, out of curiosity, a year ago. I think Donald made some fundamental mistakes....maybe the historians here can correct me...

1) It was not the BGEIA that first advocated for universal adult suffrage. There were other organizations and political leaders like Critchlow and other African leaders who formed the first labor union (I believe) and who advocated for adult suffrage. The BGEIA, and later the PPP took on this challenge.

2) Ramotar paints a history of the race problem as if the Europeans are to be blamed for perpetuating this problem in Guyana. Thats what idiotic Marxists do...he ignores the 28 years and the 23 years when both the PNC and PPP perpetuated the problem and neither party mde serious attempts to solve the problem.

3) He provides a bias view of history which paints the PPP and its leaders as the saviors of Guyana...and the PNC totally to be blamed for the current problems between Indos and Afros...

jes my 2 cents....

This fecal nonsense written by Ramotar just shows why I call the PPP the Indo Nazi.  It confirms that when 4 years ago they called themselves the "coolie people party" (Rohee confirmed this based on comments made by Jagdeo) this is their thinking.

1. The BGEIA was an elitist Indian organization that wanted dominance of Guyana by encouraging more Indian indentures to arrive.  They painted lies attempting to hide the harsh conditions that indentures lived under as India wanted to ban this based on reports of adverse working and living conditions.  The BGEIA didn't care a gif about Indian indentures aside from wanting to use them as they attempted to dominate Guyana.

2. While Critchlow started by helping workers in the Afro dominated menial jobs in GT and elsewhere he soon began to help the estate workers to establish their own trade unions.  No credit given to him for that.  So bad that the PPP even wanted the Critchlow educational institution to fail by not funding it.

3. Anyone reading his piece of fecal racism would think that the elites in GT entertaining themselves to the exclusion of others were all Africans instead of the tiny mainly Indian elites.  One would think that Africans didn't suffer all manner of abuse from all the post independence political parties, and therefore as bad (if not worse off) than the Indian population.

But the PPP is a Indian Rights group so I expect no better from them.  They will sell blacks snake oil, and spread panic about blacks to Amerindians as they know that they cannot win anymore just based on the Indian vote.

But the PPP is now as racist as they once accused ROAR of being.  It turns out that ROAR won that battle in the end.  The PPP doesn't even pretend to be multi ethnic in its interests since 2015.

Ramotar screams about Africans being made to feel "unjustifiably" (so he says) of the PPP.  Why wouldn't they when they read his lies and the fact that he shyts of the black population.  No attempt at balance.  No attempt to reflect that maybe Guyana has perspectives diverse as its ethnic groups and geographic regions and social classes.

But its good that he wrote this piece of Hindutva drivel, just in case anyone thought that the PPP was trying to change its hostility to blacks.

VishMahabir posted:

Yall Indos like to turn the other cheek. ..always like Martin Luther King and Mahatama Ghandi...

why yall cowards cant be like Walta Rodney and Malcom X and sing a new song...like BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY....maybe then yall gon get some RESPECT, no?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Indos are not oppressed because they're timid but because they don't know how to unite for the greater good. I know some coolie bad-men that would make you shiver.

Nehru posted:

Animals will be Animals. Those who are still suffering of Slavery will forever feel inferior!!!

And Indians who suffered from being treated as slaves, did not feel inferior ?

Bai, go talk to you Nana how 'nice' the British were to Indian Indenture Labourers.   

Tola posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

A piece of Peace is indeed a Peaceful Peace.

Powerful stuff, me gotta include it in my ongoing memoirs. 

If Caribny is a historian then he is piss pot of a historian. He better off taking lessons from Kean.

Prashad posted:
Tola posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

A piece of Peace is indeed a Peaceful Peace.

Powerful stuff, me gotta include it in my ongoing memoirs. 

If Caribny is a historian then he is piss pot of a historian. He better off taking lessons from Kean.

Trying is better than waiting [or complaining] fa a fish to jump in you girgerra. 

VishMahabir posted:
Nehru posted:
Ray posted:
Nehru posted:

Bharat Mata Ki Jai.  WE WILL OVERCOME!!!

wha ayuh gon overcome...ress yuh rass

We shall overcome some day!!! Sing aloud Riff. The Monsters called the PNC will NOT deny us of our freedom, our RIGHTS and our humanity.

Yall Indos like to turn the other cheek. ..always like Martin Luther King and Mahatama Ghandi...

why yall cowards cant be like Walta Rodney and Malcom X and sing a new song...like BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY....maybe then yall gon get some RESPECT, no?

Respect for the dead, in the case of malcolm and Walter gone too soon. I suppose too impatient for for power.

caribny posted:
But its good that he wrote this piece of Hindutva drivel, just in case anyone thought that the PPP was trying to change its hostility to blacks.

Cribby, calm yuhself down bai before yuh buss a blood vessel. The article was a salute to indoGs. What else you expect the man to write about?  Indos were indenture from 1838 to 1917, a total of 79 years and Blacks were free people all that time and yet they didn't improve their chafe in life.  How is that the Indos fault? I think you barking up the wrong tree, you should be having this fight with the white man who enslaved your people 

Tola posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

A piece of Peace is indeed a Peaceful Peace.

Powerful stuff, me gotta include it in my ongoing memoirs. 

I honestly believe that Cribby is a good man wrapped in a sour attitude!

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:
But its good that he wrote this piece of Hindutva drivel, just in case anyone thought that the PPP was trying to change its hostility to blacks.

Cribby, calm yuhself down bai before yuh buss a blood vessel. The article was a salute to indoGs. What else you expect the man to write about?  Indos were indenture from 1838 to 1917, a total of 79 years and Blacks were free people all that time and yet they didn't improve their chafe in life.  How is that the Indos fault? I think you barking up the wrong tree, you should be having this fight with the white man who enslaved your people 

Brilliant.

caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

A SALUTE TO INDIAN GUYANESE

May 15, 2019 News, Kaieteur, https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...-to-indian-guyanese/

By Donald Ramotar, Former President

 

Donald Ramotar is no historian like Rodney and Jagan.

I once did a term paper on this topic, out of curiosity, a year ago. I think Donald made some fundamental mistakes....maybe the historians here can correct me...

1) It was not the BGEIA that first advocated for universal adult suffrage. There were other organizations and political leaders like Critchlow and other African leaders who formed the first labor union (I believe) and who advocated for adult suffrage. The BGEIA, and later the PPP took on this challenge.

2) Ramotar paints a history of the race problem as if the Europeans are to be blamed for perpetuating this problem in Guyana. Thats what idiotic Marxists do...he ignores the 28 years and the 23 years when both the PNC and PPP perpetuated the problem and neither party mde serious attempts to solve the problem.

3) He provides a bias view of history which paints the PPP and its leaders as the saviors of Guyana...and the PNC totally to be blamed for the current problems between Indos and Afros...

jes my 2 cents....

This fecal nonsense written by Ramotar just shows why I call the PPP the Indo Nazi.  It confirms that when 4 years ago they called themselves the "coolie people party" (Rohee confirmed this based on comments made by Jagdeo) this is their thinking.

1. The BGEIA was an elitist Indian organization that wanted dominance of Guyana by encouraging more Indian indentures to arrive.  They painted lies attempting to hide the harsh conditions that indentures lived under as India wanted to ban this based on reports of adverse working and living conditions.  The BGEIA didn't care a gif about Indian indentures aside from wanting to use them as they attempted to dominate Guyana.

2. While Critchlow started by helping workers in the Afro dominated menial jobs in GT and elsewhere he soon began to help the estate workers to establish their own trade unions.  No credit given to him for that.  So bad that the PPP even wanted the Critchlow educational institution to fail by not funding it.

3. Anyone reading his piece of fecal racism would think that the elites in GT entertaining themselves to the exclusion of others were all Africans instead of the tiny mainly Indian elites.  One would think that Africans didn't suffer all manner of abuse from all the post independence political parties, and therefore as bad (if not worse off) than the Indian population.

But the PPP is a Indian Rights group so I expect no better from them.  They will sell blacks snake oil, and spread panic about blacks to Amerindians as they know that they cannot win anymore just based on the Indian vote.

But the PPP is now as racist as they once accused ROAR of being.  It turns out that ROAR won that battle in the end.  The PPP doesn't even pretend to be multi ethnic in its interests since 2015.

Ramotar screams about Africans being made to feel "unjustifiably" (so he says) of the PPP.  Why wouldn't they when they read his lies and the fact that he shyts of the black population.  No attempt at balance.  No attempt to reflect that maybe Guyana has perspectives diverse as its ethnic groups and geographic regions and social classes.

But its good that he wrote this piece of Hindutva drivel, just in case anyone thought that the PPP was trying to change its hostility to blacks.

I am reading two books right now...

Rodney's History of the Guyanese Working People and Seecharan's Mother India...so my responses below are based on those two sources and what little I know about Guyana's history...

I make the following points...

1. The BGEIA was elitist, yes. But there was no other way that an Indo organization that represented Indians could have been formed without the elitists. Many of these so called elites were from rural areas who traveled to GT (and abroad) in search of opportunities. Many who were educated or returned from abroad settled in GT. The program of the BGEIA was broad and they made attempts to unite, protect and serve the interests of all Indos, in the city and the rural areas. For example, the founders of the BGEIA were from Berbice. Its program to register Indians to vote and fight for universal adult suffrage (for those over 21, elimination of property and literacy requirements, etc) were genuinely designed to help all Indians, just like African, Portuguese, and Chinese organizations that existed at the time. 

To suggest that the BGEIA was racist is simplistic and ignores the broader goals of the organization. Its goals mirrored those of the League of Colored People (of which Burnham was a supporter).

2. Nathaniel Critchlow was indeed the father of trade unionism. However, according to Seecharan, whatever assistance Critchlow provided to sugar workers in the rural areas was limited in scope. He concentrated his efforts in Georgetown organizing the stevedores, ship workers, hospital workers, etc. He does not have a strong record assisting sugar workers or rural Indians.

In fact, some would also consider Critchlow a hypocrite. All his life he supported universal adult suffrage. However, he took a 360 degree turn and opposed it, giving a ridiculous reason as to why. Critchlow opposed universal adult suffrage when he realized that too many Indians were entering the political space and were becoming eligible to vote. He felt a greater number of Indos who could vote was a threat to Afros. 

3. I dont disagree that the PPP is a de facto Indian organization. But we cant act like the other major organization, the PNC, is a multiracial organization either. 

4. I would not place too much faith on what Ramotar is saying. He is a simpleton, a Marxist ideologue, and probably the worst President Guyana has has. His "analysis" is biased in favor of the PPP.  

 

antabanta posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Yall Indos like to turn the other cheek. ..always like Martin Luther King and Mahatama Ghandi...

why yall cowards cant be like Walta Rodney and Malcom X and sing a new song...like BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY....maybe then yall gon get some RESPECT, no?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Indos are not oppressed because they're timid but because they don't know how to unite for the greater good. I know some coolie bad-men that would make you shiver.

Anti-Banta, 

...dont you have some shredding to do?

I see you are also an expert on Indos...you should keep hanging out with them Indo bad-men...

 

Tola posted:
Nehru posted:

Animals will be Animals. Those who are still suffering of Slavery will forever feel inferior!!!

And Indians who suffered from being treated as slaves, did not feel inferior ?

Bai, go talk to you Nana how 'nice' the British were to Indian Indenture Labourers.   

For a guy who is always looking out for the scholars from India who read GNI, this is a brilliant statement coming from you...

This is like saying that the slave master was "NICE" to the field slave....

 

antabanta posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

Carib subscribes to the belief if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshyte.

So...you saying that Carib is all about BS?

I thought you had some smarts in you....try reading dem papers and books before shredding them...

Knucklehead...you aint funny.

Tola posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

A piece of Peace is indeed a Peaceful Peace.

Powerful stuff, me gotta include it in my ongoing memoirs. 

Just having(a)piece is also nice

VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

Carib subscribes to the belief if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshyte.

So...you saying that Carib is all about BS?

I thought you had some smarts in you....try reading dem papers and books before shredding them...

Knucklehead...you aint funny.

How come you suddenly convert to a die-hard Guyanian knucklehead!

VishMahabir posted:
caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

A SALUTE TO INDIAN GUYANESE

May 15, 2019 News, Kaieteur, https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...-to-indian-guyanese/

By Donald Ramotar, Former President

 

Donald Ramotar is no historian like Rodney and Jagan.

I once did a term paper on this topic, out of curiosity, a year ago. I think Donald made some fundamental mistakes....maybe the historians here can correct me...

1) It was not the BGEIA that first advocated for universal adult suffrage. There were other organizations and political leaders like Critchlow and other African leaders who formed the first labor union (I believe) and who advocated for adult suffrage. The BGEIA, and later the PPP took on this challenge.

2) Ramotar paints a history of the race problem as if the Europeans are to be blamed for perpetuating this problem in Guyana. Thats what idiotic Marxists do...he ignores the 28 years and the 23 years when both the PNC and PPP perpetuated the problem and neither party mde serious attempts to solve the problem.

3) He provides a bias view of history which paints the PPP and its leaders as the saviors of Guyana...and the PNC totally to be blamed for the current problems between Indos and Afros...

jes my 2 cents....

This fecal nonsense written by Ramotar just shows why I call the PPP the Indo Nazi.  It confirms that when 4 years ago they called themselves the "coolie people party" (Rohee confirmed this based on comments made by Jagdeo) this is their thinking.

1. The BGEIA was an elitist Indian organization that wanted dominance of Guyana by encouraging more Indian indentures to arrive.  They painted lies attempting to hide the harsh conditions that indentures lived under as India wanted to ban this based on reports of adverse working and living conditions.  The BGEIA didn't care a gif about Indian indentures aside from wanting to use them as they attempted to dominate Guyana.

2. While Critchlow started by helping workers in the Afro dominated menial jobs in GT and elsewhere he soon began to help the estate workers to establish their own trade unions.  No credit given to him for that.  So bad that the PPP even wanted the Critchlow educational institution to fail by not funding it.

3. Anyone reading his piece of fecal racism would think that the elites in GT entertaining themselves to the exclusion of others were all Africans instead of the tiny mainly Indian elites.  One would think that Africans didn't suffer all manner of abuse from all the post independence political parties, and therefore as bad (if not worse off) than the Indian population.

But the PPP is a Indian Rights group so I expect no better from them.  They will sell blacks snake oil, and spread panic about blacks to Amerindians as they know that they cannot win anymore just based on the Indian vote.

But the PPP is now as racist as they once accused ROAR of being.  It turns out that ROAR won that battle in the end.  The PPP doesn't even pretend to be multi ethnic in its interests since 2015.

Ramotar screams about Africans being made to feel "unjustifiably" (so he says) of the PPP.  Why wouldn't they when they read his lies and the fact that he shyts of the black population.  No attempt at balance.  No attempt to reflect that maybe Guyana has perspectives diverse as its ethnic groups and geographic regions and social classes.

But its good that he wrote this piece of Hindutva drivel, just in case anyone thought that the PPP was trying to change its hostility to blacks.

I am reading two books right now...

Rodney's History of the Guyanese Working People and Seecharan's Mother India...so my responses below are based on those two sources and what little I know about Guyana's history...

I make the following points...

1. The BGEIA was elitist, yes. But there was no other way that an Indo organization that represented Indians could have been formed without the elitists. Many of these so called elites were from rural areas who traveled to GT (and abroad) in search of opportunities. Many who were educated or returned from abroad settled in GT. The program of the BGEIA was broad and they made attempts to unite, protect and serve the interests of all Indos, in the city and the rural areas. For example, the founders of the BGEIA were from Berbice. Its program to register Indians to vote and fight for universal adult suffrage (for those over 21, elimination of property and literacy requirements, etc) were genuinely designed to help all Indians, just like African, Portuguese, and Chinese organizations that existed at the time. 

To suggest that the BGEIA was racist is simplistic and ignores the broader goals of the organization. Its goals mirrored those of the League of Colored People (of which Burnham was a supporter).

2. Nathaniel Critchlow was indeed the father of trade unionism. However, according to Seecharan, whatever assistance Critchlow provided to sugar workers in the rural areas was limited in scope. He concentrated his efforts in Georgetown organizing the stevedores, ship workers, hospital workers, etc. He does not have a strong record assisting sugar workers or rural Indians.

In fact, some would also consider Critchlow a hypocrite. All his life he supported universal adult suffrage. However, he took a 360 degree turn and opposed it, giving a ridiculous reason as to why. Critchlow opposed universal adult suffrage when he realized that too many Indians were entering the political space and were becoming eligible to vote. He felt a greater number of Indos who could vote was a threat to Afros. 

3. I dont disagree that the PPP is a de facto Indian organization. But we cant act like the other major organization, the PNC, is a multiracial organization either. 

4. I would not place too much faith on what Ramotar is saying. He is a simpleton, a Marxist ideologue, and probably the worst President Guyana has has. His "analysis" is biased in favor of the PPP.  

 

:In the time of Critchlow, voting was not carried out in the entire colony, only in GT. Mainly between the Coloreds, Putagees and Negro elites of GT. The slogan was vote for your own, Stopped short of "kind." 

Ray posted:
Nehru posted:

Bharat Mata Ki Jai.  WE WILL OVERCOME!!!

wha ayuh gon overcome...ress yuh rass

In spite of the many difficulties East Indians generally faced during the indentureship period , they improved their standard of living. They continue to do so to this day. From where they were when their fore parents left India, and where the ancestors are now. You are in US others are successful in other countries. The struggle for a better life and future continues.

 

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Cribby can't contribute anything positive to Guyana or even his own race. All he is adept at doing to generating anti-Indian sentiments to feed those insecure and gullible Afros who wants to place the blame on someone else. 

You couldn't have said it better.

Dave posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Cribby can't contribute anything positive to Guyana or even his own race. All he is adept at doing to generating anti-Indian sentiments to feed those insecure and gullible Afros who wants to place the blame on someone else. 

You couldn't have said it better.

Dave, many years ago I sent an email to a VIP with a font size like this by mistake. I don't know how it happened, guess I pressed something by mistake. That's when I learned huge font and bolding mean shouting. Then boss replied the person and told him sorry, etc.   

Leonora posted:
Dave posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Cribby can't contribute anything positive to Guyana or even his own race. All he is adept at doing to generating anti-Indian sentiments to feed those insecure and gullible Afros who wants to place the blame on someone else. 

You couldn't have said it better.

Dave, many years ago I sent an email to a VIP with a font size like this by mistake. I don't know how it happened, guess I pressed something by mistake. That's when I learned huge font and bolding mean shouting. Then boss replied the person and told him sorry, etc.   

Dave is GNI's rude boy.

Leonora posted:
Dave posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Cribby can't contribute anything positive to Guyana or even his own race. All he is adept at doing to generating anti-Indian sentiments to feed those insecure and gullible Afros who wants to place the blame on someone else. 

You couldn't have said it better.

Dave, many years ago I sent an email to a VIP with a font size like this by mistake. I don't know how it happened, guess I pressed something by mistake. That's when I learned huge font and bolding mean shouting. Then boss replied the person and told him sorry, etc.   

Thought the BOLD meant awareness. Thanks for the insight.

Prashad posted:
antabanta posted:
Prashad posted:

A very good article by President Ramotar.

 

What's good about it?

Everything.

No idea what you're talking about, eh? Come-on, take at least this one opportunity to prove you're not the idiot most of us think you are.

antabanta posted:
Prashad posted:
antabanta posted:
Prashad posted:

A very good article by President Ramotar.

 

What's good about it?

Everything.

No idea what you're talking about, eh? Come-on, take at least this one opportunity to prove you're not the idiot most of us think you are.

Now the man will seh you and Keffer double teaming up on him.

VishMahabir posted:

I am reading two books right now...

Rodney's History of the Guyanese Working People and Seecharan's Mother India...so my responses below are based on those two sources and what little I know about Guyana's history...

I make the following points...

1. The BGEIA was elitist, yes. But there was no other way that an Indo organization that represented Indians could have been formed without the elitists. Many of these so called elites were from rural areas who traveled to GT (and abroad) in search of opportunities. Many who were educated or returned from abroad settled in GT. The program of the BGEIA was broad and they made attempts to unite, protect and serve the interests of all Indos, in the city and the rural areas. For example, the founders of the BGEIA were from Berbice. Its program to register Indians to vote and fight for universal adult suffrage (for those over 21, elimination of property and literacy requirements, etc) were genuinely designed to help all Indians, just like African, Portuguese, and Chinese organizations that existed at the time. 

To suggest that the BGEIA was racist is simplistic and ignores the broader goals of the organization. Its goals mirrored those of the League of Colored People (of which Burnham was a supporter).

2. Nathaniel Critchlow was indeed the father of trade unionism. However, according to Seecharan, whatever assistance Critchlow provided to sugar workers in the rural areas was limited in scope. He concentrated his efforts in Georgetown organizing the stevedores, ship workers, hospital workers, etc. He does not have a strong record assisting sugar workers or rural Indians.

In fact, some would also consider Critchlow a hypocrite. All his life he supported universal adult suffrage. However, he took a 360 degree turn and opposed it, giving a ridiculous reason as to why. Critchlow opposed universal adult suffrage when he realized that too many Indians were entering the political space and were becoming eligible to vote. He felt a greater number of Indos who could vote was a threat to Afros. 

3. I dont disagree that the PPP is a de facto Indian organization. But we cant act like the other major organization, the PNC, is a multiracial organization either. 

4. I would not place too much faith on what Ramotar is saying. He is a simpleton, a Marxist ideologue, and probably the worst President Guyana has has. His "analysis" is biased in favor of the PPP.  

 

Aye.... Mouthoprekke.... throw away dem books and go to Guyana. Find one old person of each race and sit down and gyaff with them. One hour with each will teach you more about Guyana than all them books. Unless is just hard yuh head hard. Of course, maybe you've convinced yourself your redundant comments stating what most people here already know make you look smart.

VishMahabir posted:

Anti-Banta, 

...dont you have some shredding to do?

I see you are also an expert on Indos...you should keep hanging out with them Indo bad-men...

 

You got nuff stchupid sense to show up and make one and two comments then run and hide. My hanging out days done. Ah gon shred you.

VishMahabir posted:
Tola posted:
Nehru posted:

Animals will be Animals. Those who are still suffering of Slavery will forever feel inferior!!!

And Indians who suffered from being treated as slaves, did not feel inferior ?

Bai, go talk to you Nana how 'nice' the British were to Indian Indenture Labourers.   

For a guy who is always looking out for the scholars from India who read GNI, this is a brilliant statement coming from you...

This is like saying that the slave master was "NICE" to the field slave....

 

Stchupid man... Tola's sarcasm was lost on you, eh? Bai... you ain't easy. Yuh head like it really hard.

VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

Carib subscribes to the belief if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshyte.

So...you saying that Carib is all about BS?

I thought you had some smarts in you....try reading dem papers and books before shredding them...

Knucklehead...you aint funny.

Stchupid man... I KNOW Carib is all BS. I never shred books. Ah gon shred you if you have the courage to stick around.

antabanta posted:
VishMahabir posted:

I am reading two books right now...

Rodney's History of the Guyanese Working People and Seecharan's Mother India...so my responses below are based on those two sources and what little I know about Guyana's history...

I make the following points...

1. The BGEIA was elitist, yes. But there was no other way that an Indo organization that represented Indians could have been formed without the elitists. Many of these so called elites were from rural areas who traveled to GT (and abroad) in search of opportunities. Many who were educated or returned from abroad settled in GT. The program of the BGEIA was broad and they made attempts to unite, protect and serve the interests of all Indos, in the city and the rural areas. For example, the founders of the BGEIA were from Berbice. Its program to register Indians to vote and fight for universal adult suffrage (for those over 21, elimination of property and literacy requirements, etc) were genuinely designed to help all Indians, just like African, Portuguese, and Chinese organizations that existed at the time. 

To suggest that the BGEIA was racist is simplistic and ignores the broader goals of the organization. Its goals mirrored those of the League of Colored People (of which Burnham was a supporter).

2. Nathaniel Critchlow was indeed the father of trade unionism. However, according to Seecharan, whatever assistance Critchlow provided to sugar workers in the rural areas was limited in scope. He concentrated his efforts in Georgetown organizing the stevedores, ship workers, hospital workers, etc. He does not have a strong record assisting sugar workers or rural Indians.

In fact, some would also consider Critchlow a hypocrite. All his life he supported universal adult suffrage. However, he took a 360 degree turn and opposed it, giving a ridiculous reason as to why. Critchlow opposed universal adult suffrage when he realized that too many Indians were entering the political space and were becoming eligible to vote. He felt a greater number of Indos who could vote was a threat to Afros. 

3. I dont disagree that the PPP is a de facto Indian organization. But we cant act like the other major organization, the PNC, is a multiracial organization either. 

4. I would not place too much faith on what Ramotar is saying. He is a simpleton, a Marxist ideologue, and probably the worst President Guyana has has. His "analysis" is biased in favor of the PPP.  

 

Aye.... Mouthoprekke.... throw away dem books and go to Guyana. Find one old person of each race and sit down and gyaff with them. One hour with each will teach you more about Guyana than all them books. Unless is just hard yuh head hard. Of course, maybe you've convinced yourself your redundant comments stating what most people here already know make you look smart.

Dude...I know you have a short attention span....ADD?...dem call dat Attention Deficit Disorder...

You have anything smart to say about the information above ...or you just cant just move beyond the one liners...?

antabanta posted:
VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

Carib subscribes to the belief if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshyte.

So...you saying that Carib is all about BS?

I thought you had some smarts in you....try reading dem papers and books before shredding them...

Knucklehead...you aint funny.

Stchupid man... I KNOW Carib is all BS. I never shred books. Ah gon shred you if you have the courage to stick around.

Shredder....dont move....stay here and wait...I gon be back soon.

antabanta posted:
VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

Carib subscribes to the belief if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshyte.

So...you saying that Carib is all about BS?

I thought you had some smarts in you....try reading dem papers and books before shredding them...

Knucklehead...you aint funny.

Stchupid man... I KNOW Carib is all BS. I never shred books. Ah gon shred you if you have the courage to stick around.

Really?

You are not known as a person who engages in any kind of debates here...all you do is trolling and shredding...

 

VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:

Aye.... Mouthoprekke.... throw away dem books and go to Guyana. Find one old person of each race and sit down and gyaff with them. One hour with each will teach you more about Guyana than all them books. Unless is just hard yuh head hard. Of course, maybe you've convinced yourself your redundant comments stating what most people here already know make you look smart.

Dude...I know you have a short attention span....ADD?...dem call dat Attention Deficit Disorder...

You have anything smart to say about the information above ...or you just cant just move beyond the one liners...?

Stchupid man.... one-liner means literally one line. I have more education and qualifications than you probably ever will. What information above? I see no need to say anything about your mediocre, albeit long, post. It was a waste of your time to write.

VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:

Stchupid man... I KNOW Carib is all BS. I never shred books. Ah gon shred you if you have the courage to stick around.

Really?

You are not known as a person who engages in any kind of debates here...all you do is trolling and shredding...

 

  Is that a fact? You are worthy of debating????

antabanta posted:
VishMahabir posted:
antabanta posted:

Stchupid man... I KNOW Carib is all BS. I never shred books. Ah gon shred you if you have the courage to stick around.

Really?

You are not known as a person who engages in any kind of debates here...all you do is trolling and shredding...

 

  Is that a fact? You are worthy of debating????

Knucklehead....told you to WAIT RIGHT HERE....

whe you gaan...looking for paper to shred?

Tola posted:
Nehru posted:

Animals will be Animals. Those who are still suffering of Slavery will forever feel inferior!!!

And Indians who suffered from being treated as slaves, did not feel inferior ?

Bai, go talk to you Nana how 'nice' the British were to Indian Indenture Labourers.   

In fact the curse of the plantation still ail both the descendants of the slaves and the Indian indentures.  No one speaks of a suicide epidemic among Guyanese of Chinese or Portuguese ancestry, likely because they got off the plantation quickly.

So these assertions of Afro inferiority by some are quite laughable when they ought to focus on why Chinese/Portuguese came to Guyana on the same terms as did Indians, and their descendants are yet much better off.

Dave posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Cribby can't contribute anything positive to Guyana or even his own race. All he is adept at doing to generating anti-Indian sentiments to feed those insecure and gullible Afros who wants to place the blame on someone else. 

You couldn't have said it better.

Its funny how you two Indo Nazis view me through your own racist lenses.  I am not a slavish House Negro stooge like Sam Hinds and Juan Edghill so of course I am "no use".   You don't know me nor do you know what I do.  Its best if you don't repeat with such enthusiasm the lies about black people that racist whites tell you, because they don't speak well of you either.

 

Btw if I am so "useless" why would blacks listen to what I have to say.  You know what is responsible for their views against Indians.  The Indo Nazis like you two who use the same curses against them that the KKK does, then you wonder why they hate you.  And yes they read GNI so know exactly what you all think of them!

antabanta posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

Carib subscribes to the belief if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshyte.

OK so you agree 100% with what Ramotar wrote.  Well that puts you alongside Dave, Skeldon, Yuji, Ksazma, Prashad and the others.  Because they definitely agree with Ramotar.

I call it as I see it!

Prashad posted:
Tola posted:
Baseman posted:

Cribby my brother, your analysis of the piece is longer than the piece itself.  Peace!

A piece of Peace is indeed a Peaceful Peace.

Powerful stuff, me gotta include it in my ongoing memoirs. 

If Caribny is a historian then he is piss pot of a historian. He better off taking lessons from Kean.

Of course I expect you to endorse yhe BGEIA which had as its goal the complete Indianization of Guyana planning to turn it into a de facto colony of India.  So intent that it lied to the government of India pretending that no abuse of indentures occurred on the estates.

Political domination by an Indian elite was the sole goal of the BGEIA.  NOT crafting a multi ethnic society where all could feel fairly treated.

But Anta agrees with you so that's OK.

 

Drugb posted:
 
Cribby, calm yuhself down bai before yuh buss a blood vessel. The article was a salute to indoGs.

And yet so much mention of AfroGs.  Why?  If the intent was to praise IndoGs then we should NOT have been mentioned!

 

Leave us out of your Hindutva dreams of Indo Supremacy.

VishMahabir posted:

 

I am reading two books right now...

Rodney's History of the Guyanese Working People and Seecharan's Mother India...so my responses below are based on those two sources and what little I know about Guyana's history...

I make the following points...

1. The BGEIA was elitist, yes. But there was no other way that an Indo organization that represented Indians could have been formed without the elitists. Many of these so called elites were from rural areas who traveled to GT (and abroad) in search of opportunities. Many who were educated or returned from abroad settled in GT. The program of the BGEIA was broad and they made attempts to unite, protect and serve the interests of all Indos, in the city and the rural areas. For example, the founders of the BGEIA were from Berbice. Its program to register Indians to vote and fight for universal adult suffrage (for those over 21, elimination of property and literacy requirements, etc) were genuinely designed to help all Indians, just like African, Portuguese, and Chinese organizations that existed at the time. 

To suggest that the BGEIA was racist is simplistic and ignores the broader goals of the organization. Its goals mirrored those of the League of Colored People (of which Burnham was a supporter).

2. Nathaniel Critchlow was indeed the father of trade unionism. However, according to Seecharan, whatever assistance Critchlow provided to sugar workers in the rural areas was limited in scope. He concentrated his efforts in Georgetown organizing the stevedores, ship workers, hospital workers, etc. He does not have a strong record assisting sugar workers or rural Indians.

In fact, some would also consider Critchlow a hypocrite. All his life he supported universal adult suffrage. However, he took a 360 degree turn and opposed it, giving a ridiculous reason as to why. Critchlow opposed universal adult suffrage when he realized that too many Indians were entering the political space and were becoming eligible to vote. He felt a greater number of Indos who could vote was a threat to Afros. 

3. I dont disagree that the PPP is a de facto Indian organization. But we cant act like the other major organization, the PNC, is a multiracial organization either. 

4. I would not place too much faith on what Ramotar is saying. He is a simpleton, a Marxist ideologue, and probably the worst President Guyana has has. His "analysis" is biased in favor of the PPP.  

 

1. No one said that the PNC wasn't as racist as the PPP is.  Ramotar focuses on the racism of the PNC and ignores the fact that the PPP is as racist.  He then blames black people because they see the PPP as anti black and he ignores the fact that black people spent 23 years under PPP rule so don't need to be told by anyone what the PPP is.

Like most racists he considers blacks to be stupid animals unable to think for themselves. Well even a dog knows when they are being badly treated. No one needs to tell them this so blacks know exactly what happened to them under the PPP and have as much right to be vocal against this as do Indians have a right to complain about PNC racism.

But your Indo bias as usual gives Indians the right to critique PNC racism but denies blacks equal rights to complain against the PPP.  Even your premise about "Indians turning the other cheek".  Well I can say the same about blacks tolerating that Jagdeo blood bath and about Ramotar shooting them down in cold blood.

2.  The BGEIA's SOLE goal was about Indians so why would Critchlow NOT have become suspicious of them?  The BGEIA did NOT state as its goal and intent to unite the Indo and Afro working classes against colonial rule.  You might query the extent to which Critchlow helped sugar workers but what you CANNOT debate is that he did provide some help.

What did the BGEIA do for blacks, aside from threatening to subdue them to domination by BOTH whites and Indian elites?  THAT is why Critchlow became suspicious of the BGEIA.  He did NOT struggle to uplift the black masses to see them succumb to domination by an immigrant elite. And yes in this era the vast majority of Indians were either foreigners or the children of foreigners and did NOT have any alliance or loyalty to Guyana.

 

Please itemize what the BGEIA did to assist African workers?  Did they attempt to dialogue with the LCP who was struggling against colonial abuse? Why would Critchlow struggle to improve the lot of all Guyanese workers to see the BGEIA arriving with a selfish agenda of caring only about Indians.

 

I will await your response because I know it will be the usual hypocrisy that Indos can be only about Indos but Afros must be for everyone.

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
 
Cribby, calm yuhself down bai before yuh buss a blood vessel. The article was a salute to indoGs.

And yet so much mention of AfroGs.  Why?  If the intent was to praise IndoGs then we should NOT have been mentioned!

 

Leave us out of your Hindutva dreams of Indo Supremacy.

Was it not for your modus operandi of debasing indos at every opportunity, I would actually believe you. However we all know how you hate indos and consider the only good indo is a dead indo.  Hatred will send you to an early grave. 

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
 
Cribby, calm yuhself down bai before yuh buss a blood vessel. The article was a salute to indoGs.

And yet so much mention of AfroGs.  Why?  If the intent was to praise IndoGs then we should NOT have been mentioned!

 

Leave us out of your Hindutva dreams of Indo Supremacy.

Caribj got kingkongtva dreams because he has king Kong trapped in his pants.

Drugb posted:
 

Was it not for your modus operandi of debasing indos at every opportunity, I would actually believe you. However we all know how you hate indos and consider the only good indo is a dead indo.  Hatred will send you to an early grave. 

Poor druggie. Apparently you couldn't find some nice long and thick black vegetables tonight.

Prashad posted:
 

Caribj got kingkongtva dreams because he has king Kong trapped in his pants.

I detect a strong sense of black penis envy from you. Apparently your deficiencies are the reason why you fear that white women dont want you.

But sssh.  I dont want druggie sniffing around as he loves to use these implements.

Prashad posted:

Prashad don't give a sh-t about white women. He never had and never will. The woman of color is what he is all about.

 

And yet all day he whines that black men have big king kongs and women like them.  Deeply jealous because of the midgets that he has.

In the USA black men are no more likely to marry a white woman than are Indians.  So what say you about that!  In fact a popular theme in films made by US born South Asians is that they want to marry a white person but their stupid parents bring some stranger from India/Pakistan instead.  How many movies made by blacks in the USA dwell on a desire to marry a white person.  Not sure how popular such a movie might be.

caribny posted:
Prashad posted:

Prashad don't give a sh-t about white women. He never had and never will. The woman of color is what he is all about.

 

And yet all day he whines that black men have big king kongs and women like them.  Deeply jealous because of the midgets that he has.

In the USA black men are no more likely to marry a white woman than are Indians.  So what say you about that!  In fact a popular theme in films made by US born South Asians is that they want to marry a white person but their stupid parents bring some stranger from India/Pakistan instead.  How many movies made by blacks in the USA dwell on a desire to marry a white person.  Not sure how popular such a movie might be.

Rass bai, like yuh remember all them collie movies when yuh bin deh with the indo woman before yuh get kicked to the curb. 

caribny posted:
Prashad posted:

Prashad don't give a sh-t about white women. He never had and never will. The woman of color is what he is all about.

 

And yet all day he whines that black men have big king kongs and women like them.  Deeply jealous because of the midgets that he has.

In the USA black men are no more likely to marry a white woman than are Indians.  So what say you about that!  In fact a popular theme in films made by US born South Asians is that they want to marry a white person but their stupid parents bring some stranger from India/Pakistan instead.  How many movies made by blacks in the USA dwell on a desire to marry a white person.  Not sure how popular such a movie might be.

Hey Carib, Africa is the the largest market for skin whitening cream. 

December 17th 2018

Nigeria’s Skin-Bleaching Epidemic

The arrival of an American reality TV star to launch her skin-lightening line in Lagos stirred up some controversy in the recent weeks, as people debated how harmful skin-bleaching is and if it’s appropriate for celebrities to promote such products.  

That said, if you take a stroll down the cosmetics section of any Nigerian market or superstore, there is a high chance you will come across a variety of skin lightening products ranging from soaps, creams, and serums. Blac Chyna’s arrival aside, Nigeria is one of the largest markets for skin-bleaching products.

Skin-bleaching is big 

The global market for skin lightening products is growing and is estimated to reach $20 billion by the end of the year, driven by strong demand among men and women across Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.

Skin lightening products are unbelievably popular in Nigeria. The World Health Organisation (WHO) published a report in 2011 estimating that 77% of Nigerian women use skin lightening products regularly. This is in comparison with 59% in Togo, 35% in South Africa, and 27% in Senegal. In fact, bleaching products are reportedly the fourth most sought-after household item by African women, alongside essentials like soap, milk, and tea. 

In Lagos, the skin lightening market has found a permanent home. The industry is so huge that it adequately caters to individuals of different social class. Product prices range from as little as ₦5,000 to as high as ₦150,000, depending on the brand and method of application. The amount of people who use skin lightening products is quite alarming in a country where the minimum wage is only ₦18,000. And, unsurprisingly, the exposure to popular western culture has also led to a demand for more expensive foreign products and consequently led to higher prices. 

Money is clearly being made here, but it is not an excuse to ignore the requirement for public education on the issue of colourism and the consequences of the skin lightening process.

To find out more information about the Nigerian beauty market Click Here

To read more Click Here

Source: Stears Business

 
Drugb posted:
 In fact a popular theme in films made by US born South Asians is that they want to marry a white person but their stupid parents bring some stranger from India/Pakistan instead.  How many movies made by blacks in the USA dwell on a desire to marry a white person.  Not sure how popular such a movie might be.

Rass bai, like yuh remember all them collie movies when yuh bin deh with the indo woman before yuh get kicked to the curb. 

Yes druggie I know that literacy isn't your forte but these films are in the mainstream and easily available on Netflix.

But I digress.  You need to get your daily diet of black vegetables.

yuji22 posted:
caribny posted:
Prashad posted:

Prashad don't give a sh-t about white women. He never had and never will. The woman of color is what he is all about.

 

And yet all day he whines that black men have big king kongs and women like them.  Deeply jealous because of the midgets that he has.

In the USA black men are no more likely to marry a white woman than are Indians.  So what say you about that!  In fact a popular theme in films made by US born South Asians is that they want to marry a white person but their stupid parents bring some stranger from India/Pakistan instead.  How many movies made by blacks in the USA dwell on a desire to marry a white person.  Not sure how popular such a movie might be.

Hey Carib, Africa is the the largest market for skin whitening cream. 

December 17th 2018

Nigeria’s Skin-Bleaching Epidemic

The arrival of an American reality TV star to launch her skin-lightening line in Lagos stirred up some controversy in the recent weeks, as people debated how harmful skin-bleaching is and if it’s appropriate for celebrities to promote such products.  

That said, if you take a stroll down the cosmetics section of any Nigerian market or superstore, there is a high chance you will come across a variety of skin lightening products ranging from soaps, creams, and serums. Blac Chyna’s arrival aside, Nigeria is one of the largest markets for skin-bleaching products.

Skin-bleaching is big 

The global market for skin lightening products is growing and is estimated to reach $20 billion by the end of the year, driven by strong demand among men and women across Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.

Skin lightening products are unbelievably popular in Nigeria. The World Health Organisation (WHO) published a report in 2011 estimating that 77% of Nigerian women use skin lightening products regularly. This is in comparison with 59% in Togo, 35% in South Africa, and 27% in Senegal. In fact, bleaching products are reportedly the fourth most sought-after household item by African women, alongside essentials like soap, milk, and tea. 

In Lagos, the skin lightening market has found a permanent home. The industry is so huge that it adequately caters to individuals of different social class. Product prices range from as little as ₦5,000 to as high as ₦150,000, depending on the brand and method of application. The amount of people who use skin lightening products is quite alarming in a country where the minimum wage is only ₦18,000. And, unsurprisingly, the exposure to popular western culture has also led to a demand for more expensive foreign products and consequently led to higher prices. 

Money is clearly being made here, but it is not an excuse to ignore the requirement for public education on the issue of colourism and the consequences of the skin lightening process.

To find out more information about the Nigerian beauty market Click Here

To read more Click Here

Source: Stears Business

 

Where do you see that Nigeria is a bigger bleaching market than India? 

 

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
 In fact a popular theme in films made by US born South Asians is that they want to marry a white person but their stupid parents bring some stranger from India/Pakistan instead.  How many movies made by blacks in the USA dwell on a desire to marry a white person.  Not sure how popular such a movie might be.

Rass bai, like yuh remember all them collie movies when yuh bin deh with the indo woman before yuh get kicked to the curb. 

Yes druggie I know that literacy isn't your forte but these films are in the mainstream and easily available on Netflix.

But I digress.  You need to get your daily diet of black vegetables.

Why would a bigot like you purposely look at indo movies for everyday entertainment? Unless your hatred is so metastasized that you purposely spend your free time looking for ammunition to debase indos. 

Drugb posted:
 

Why would a bigot like you purposely look at indo movies for everyday entertainment? Unless your hatred is so metastasized that you purposely spend your free time looking for ammunition to debase indos. 

Again I know that you are ignorant.  These movies are not made for you and the rest of your Indo Nazis.  In fact they are made by US born south Asian kids attempting to escape your narrow mindedness.

They are certainly NOT Indo movies given that they were made in the USA and are aimed at general audiences.

Druggie your expertise begins and ends with black baigans and aubergine noires and the degree to which an Indo would sell his principles once he becomes addicted.  I suggest that you stick to that topic given your massive expertise in that area.

caribny posted:

Again I know that you are ignorant.  These movies are not made for you and the rest of your Indo Nazis.  In fact they are made by US born south Asian kids attempting to escape your narrow mindedness.

They are certainly NOT Indo movies given that they were made in the USA and are aimed at general audiences.

Druggie your expertise begins and ends with black baigans and aubergine noires and the degree to which an Indo would sell his principles once he becomes addicted.  I suggest that you stick to that topic given your massive expertise in that area.

Stick to the point at hand, why would a bigot like you purposefully seek out Indo movies for entertainment?  What drove you to move that mouse and click on play, was it curiosity or just plain hatred?

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