seignet posted:ksazma posted:
Truthfully, no one even know if Samson or Judah even existed. They could be made up people like so many made up people and stories in the Bible.
But I agree that Adam was a Muslim and so was Jesus.
If Jesus WAS a muslim, then I agree with you. No one knows what became of him as a muslim.
As the Son of God, you most definitely hanging His Celestial Being for His piety of death and resurrection.
Actually, I am not assaulting Jesus in any way. I believe Pointy pointed that out to you not very long ago. What I did is used my unique style to prove how the Bible incorrectly recorded people and their history. I began a long time ago proving to Bro. Keith that Isaac was at no time Abraham's only son. That was an interpolation by the compilers of the Bible. Interpolations in the Bible did not happen once but on many occasions as the Church and Bible publishers seek to fix problems with the Biblical message. Interpolation is described by Biblical scholars as text added to the "original" manuscripts to bring clarity to Bible. They are not in the "original" manuscripts. Take the passage involving Abraham and the sacrificial son. It stated "take your son, your only son, Isaac". If God is wise and Abraham is sane, God does not need to tell Abraham who is his only son as every sane person knows who their children are and which one is first, second, etc. "Your only son, Isaac" is an interpolation to deny Ishmael his right to existence after the birth of Isaac. This is not the only time that the Bible have sought to deny people their right to existence. You can find many cases littered throughout the Bible as writers during competing times sought to emphasize the importance of their times compared to others at other times. This mischief is the primary reason there are so many contradictions throughout the Bible. Writers maliciously trying to change history allowed their blind malice to create the contradictions we see in the Bible today. Here is another one that came up from Bro. Keith's post yesterday. It involves Jesus' statement about the Comforter.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; - John 14:16
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7
The words, "which is the Holy Ghost is an interpolation in the passage, John 14:16. Why I say that? Simple. The Holy Ghost did not need to wait until Jesus was gone before he can come as stated in John 16:7 because the Holy Ghost was already here according to multiple passages in the New Testament. The Holy Ghost was already with John, the Baptist among others. It was already with Jesus when he walked the earth. Heck, the New Testament stated that he gave up the Holy Ghost when he was on the cross. The Biblical writers inserted the words, "which is the Holy Ghost" not really realizing that the mischief of their actions will be uncovered. The biggest problem for the Biblical writers is they never foresaw the information age when passages can be quickly and competently scrutinized.
Muslims don't need this to validate Muhammad's existence but if they cared, they can see many corroboration for Muhammad in what Jesus was characterizing as the Comforter.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16: 12-14
Start with the characterization, 'the Spirit of Truth". No one can deny that Muhammad was a very truthful person. Heck, Khatijah who was 40 when he was 25 proposed marriage to him because of his honesty and trustworthiness. Muhammad never spoke of himself. He spoke of others and events affecting other peoples' lives and existence. While there are countless recordings from others of who Muhammad was and how he lived, there are no recordings of Muhammad lamenting about his personal conditions as the one recorded in the New Testament of Jesus complaining of not even having a place to rest his head. When the people of Taif stoned the prophet and he was bleeding, his companions (who stood with him instead of "being afrightened and fled" as in the case of Jesus' disciples when Jesus was about to be crucified) told him to pray to God to curse them. His reply was classic. He stated that he did not come as a curse but as a mercy. On his dying bed, he was crying and someone asked him why he was crying. He did not say that he was crying because he thinks God has forsaken him as the Bible recorded Jesus doing when he was on the cross. His reply was that he was sadly thinking of his ummah (followers). When the woman who used to throw her garbage on him every time he passed by her place did not do it for a few days, he did not say "maybe she is not well, good for the bitch". Instead he went and enquired how she was doing. Here is a man who throughout his life did what was beneficial to others and all of it was in a simple manner free of all the celestial nonsense wrongfully associated to Jesus as you mentioned above. Jesus' role on earth was very limited. He was not a law maker like Moses and Muhammad 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19. Jesus was a law abider, abiding by the laws of Moses. Jesus was not a leader in the community as Moses and Muhammad were. He did not move a multitude of men as Moses and Muhammad did. He did not leave a legacy as Moses and Muhammad did. What Christians follow is Paul's doctrine. Jesus did not really have a doctrine since he was following Moses' doctrine. Muhammad's Qur'an was not his own work. He also claimed that he did not write it. He stated that the Angel Gabriel spoke it in his ears and he then dictated it to his companions who in turn recorded it. ".......for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak..... John 16:13 "......and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deuteronomy 18:18
Additionally, Muhammad glorified Jesus in many passages in the Qur'an as stated in John 16:14. The speaks volumes of Jesus in a more positive light than the Bible speaks of him. It corrected Paul's lies about Jesus and removed that burden placed on Jesus by the writers of the New Testament when they chose to follow Paul's mischief. It shows him being respectful to his mother as opposed to the way the new Testament showed him being disrespectful to her. It showed him as a pure decent and honorable person as opposed to the New testament showing him as being bigoted, disrespectful and despicable. If it wasn't for Muhammad, reasonable people would be correct to consider Jesus a myth because of how the New Testament characterize him. Muhammad, through the Qur'an give Jesus a decent, honorable and normal existence and removed all the laughable Biblical characterizations of him.
Lastly, the Qur'an give a clear account of what became of Jesus as a Muslim. The difficulty is with the competing and conflicting accounts given in the Bible. It reduced Jesus to a basically a nincompoop. All I do is play the role of how the Bible characterized Jesus. Pointy thinks he knows where I stand on Jesus long before I joined GNI (although I don't personally know Pointy now or prior to me joining GNI). I am using my unique style to show how ridiculous the Biblical account of Jesus is. Like the account of him entering Jerusalem riding a donkey and an ass at the same time. Two Gun kid rode one horse and had two guns. Nothing ridiculously impossible there. That Biblical passage claimed that Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on two animals at the same time. Imagine that image.
Oh, Jesus is not God or any part of God. One God means one God in Abrahamic belief. This many is a European invention that Paul concocted so I have no fear denying Jesus any divinity. In fact, Jesus would appreciate me for not putting that burden on him. Similar to how he demanded that the man who called him "good" desist from doing so pointing out that he was not good but rather only God was good.