Why I won’t celebrate India’s independence

Gilbakka posted:
Abu Jihad posted:

 

It is very insulting to call Muslims Mohammedans, why is the admins allowing this lunatic to post fascist propaganda.

 

Criticism noted and appreciated. But, Abu, up to the early 1970s in Guyana, I recall hearing some Muslims referring to themselves as Mohammedans. That's how I first heard the term. I know for a fact that we Hindus simply called them Muslims or Fullaman, depending on the level of our education. Just being honest, Abu. Terms change over time. What was fashionable a generation ago is no longer so.

A person who worship Christ is called a Christian, an person who worship Buddha is called a Buddhist, therefore it is implied that a person who worship Muhammad is called a Muhammadan.

Muslims do not worship Muhammad and is insulted by such insinuations.

This term was coined by anti muslim bigots like the ones quoted above.

This topic is the same nonsense that is causing problems in India today as a result of the Hindu Nationalist idiots running around lynching Muslims and Christians.

Let me make one thing clear, India has never been a Hindu country at anytime in its history and its single greatest achievement is to call itself a secular country instead of the shortsightedness of its Pakistani counterparts that call itself a Muslim country.

If Mithwah wants to do research, the fist step is to research Tariq Fattah to see that this man is merely a sensationalist who likes to listen to himself talk.  

I would suggest that Mithwah go out and buy some real books and read from such writers and Tariq Ali or Vijay Prashad etc, and stop posting  this RSS cut and paste propaganda.

 

Abu, take that up with Will Durant. I am just the messenger.  As you know I have lot's of Muslims in my family. My mechanic is the best and he is a Muslim.  

Will Durant argued in his 1935 book "The Story of Civilisation: Our Oriental Heritage" (page 459):

"The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period."

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/i...ocaust-world-history

Irfan Husain in his article "Demons from the Past" observes:

"While historical events should be judged in the context of their times, it cannot be denied that even in that bloody period of history, no mercy was shown to the Hindus unfortunate enough to be in the path of either the Arab conquerors of Sindh and south Punjab, or the Central Asians who swept in from Afghanistan. The Muslim heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some dreadful crimes. Mahmud of Ghazni, Qutb-ud-Din Aibak, Balban, Mohammed bin Qasim, and Sultan Mohammad Tughlak, all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years has not cleansed..Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster.

Their temples were razed, their idols smashed, their women raped, their men killed or taken slaves. When Mahmud of Ghazni entered Somnath on one of his annual raids, he slaughtered all 50,000 inhabitants. Aibak killed and enslaved hundreds of thousands. The list of horrors is long and painful. These conquerors justified their deeds by claiming it was their religious duty to smite non-believers. Cloaking themselves in the banner of Islam, they claimed they were fighting for their faith when, in reality, they were indulging in straightforward slaughter and pillage."

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/i...ocaust-world-history

Abu Jihad posted:
 

 I would suggest that Mithwah go out and buy some real books and read from such writers and Tariq Ali or Vijay Prashad etc, and stop posting  this RSS cut and paste propaganda.

 

Tariq Ali is one of my favorite political writers. In fact I just finished reading his latest book "The Dilemmas of Lenin". Vijay Prashad is also a progressive writer. I usually read his articles on the Counterpunch website.

August 15 is a day I must remember. It's my father's birthday. Why should we care about India's independence 70 years ago? Our forefathers left long before 1947. When a colonial territory got independence from Britain, the society collapsed. Robbery, bribery, corruption and the whole nine yards followed. Leave India to celebrate theirs..a decaying society. They ain't giving us anything. 

Skelly, I remember how our old folks use to dress up de place and dem bicycles, donkey carts..... and celebrate "Swaaraj" in Guyana. Don't you?

Is Pt. Ramlall still alive?

The biggest holocaust in World History has been whitewashed from history. Anyway.....

IndiaFest 2017

Date:
Saturday August 19, 2017 - 11:00 AM to 10:00 PM

IndiaFest 2017 will be at the State Capitol Grounds on Saturday, August 19, 2017. This festival is aimed at providing the public with "experiencing India in a day," and will feature a bazaar, cuisines from six Minneapolis/Saint Paul Indian restaurants, cultural exhibits, dance & music, a parade and the presentation of college scholarships to four local students.

For more information on IndiaFest, please visit iamn.org

IndiaFest 2017 is supported in part by the City of Saint Paul's Cultural STAR Program.

Calendar Item Type: Event & Activity
Location: State Capitol Grounds
75 Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr Boulevard
Saint Paul, MN 55155

India is not a Hindu nation. It is a secular nation with a large Hindu population.  No Hindu nation celebrates Ashoka, a Buddhist king, who slaughtered Hindus by the thousands.  No Hindu nation gives guns to Sri Lankan Buddhists to kill Sri Lankan Tamil Hindus who are fighting for their basic human rights. The only Hindu nation in the world is Nepal.

Prashad posted:

India is not a Hindu nation. It is a secular nation with a large Hindu population.  No Hindu nation celebrates Ashoka, a Buddhist king, who slaughtered Hindus by the thousands.  No Hindu nation gives guns to Sri Lankan Buddhists to kill Sri Lankan Tamil Hindus who are fighting for their basic human rights. The only Hindu nation in the world is Nepal.

During those days, there were no Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains or jews in India.

We must remember that August 15 this year marks Pakistan's 70th Independence Anniversary too. The present generation of Pakistanis must not be blamed for the dismemberment of India. Offering congratulations to Pakistanis on this upcoming milestone are in order.

Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
I would suggest that Mithwah go out and buy some real books and read from such writers and Tariq Ali or Vijay Prashad etc, and stop posting  this RSS cut and paste propaganda.

 

Abu, please point out the propaganda.

What do you call a subject matter expert that don't know the name of the subject?

Abu Jihad posted:
Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
I would suggest that Mithwah go out and buy some real books and read from such writers and Tariq Ali or Vijay Prashad etc, and stop posting  this RSS cut and paste propaganda.

 

Abu, please point out the propaganda.

What do you call a subject matter expert that don't know the name of the subject?

I see you can't point out the propaganda. Don't make statements that you cannot support. 

Gilbakka posted:

We must remember that August 15 this year marks Pakistan's 70th Independence Anniversary too. The present generation of Pakistanis must not be blamed for the dismemberment of India. Offering congratulations to Pakistanis on this upcoming milestone are in order.

I agree.

One writer asked that historical events should be judged in the context of their times. 

A sample of contemporary eyewitness accounts of the invaders and rulers, during the Indian conquests

The Afghan ruler Mahmud al-Ghazni invaded India no less than seventeen times between 1001 and 1026 AD. The book "Tarikh-i-Yamini" written by his secretary documents several episodes of his bloody military campaigns : The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously [at the Indian city of Thanesar] that the stream was discoloured, notwithstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it; the infidels deserted the fort and tried to cross the foaming river; but many of them were slain, taken or drowned. Nearly fifty thousand men were killed.

In the contemporary record " Taj-ul-Ma asir" by Hassn Nizam-i-Naishapuri, it is stated that when Qutb-ul- Din Aibak (of Turko  Afghan origin and the First Sultan of Delhi 1194-1210 AD) conquered Meerat, he demolished all the Hindu temples of the city and erected mosques on their sites. In the city of Aligarh, he converted Hindu inhabitants to Islam by the sword and beheaded all those who adhered to their own religion.

18thCentury [41K)The Persian historian Wassaf writes in his book "Tazjiyat-ul-Amsar wa Tajriyat ul Asar" that when the Alaul-Din Khilji (An Afghan of Turkish origin and second ruler of the Khilji Dynasty in India 1295-1316 AD) captured the city of Kambayat at the head of the gulf of Cambay, he killed the adult male Hindu inhabitants for the glory of Islam, set flowing rivers of blood, sent the women of the country with all their gold, silver, and jewels, to his own home, and made about twentv thousand Hindu maidens his private slaves.

This ruler once asked his spiritual advisor (or "Qazi") as to what was the Islamic law prescribed for the Hindus. The Qazi replied:

"Hindus are like the mud; if silver is demanded from them, they must with the greatest humility offer gold. If a Mohammadan desires to spit into a Hindu's mouth, the Hindu should open it wide for the purpose. God created the Hindus to be slaves of the Mohammadans. The Prophet hath ordained that, if the Hindus do not accept Islam, they should be imprisoned, tortured, finally put to death, and their property confiscated."

Sacrifice [44K)Timur was a Turkic conqueror and founder of the Timurid Dynasty. Timur's Indian campaign (1398 - 1399 AD) was recorded in his memoirs, collectively known as "Tuzk-i-Timuri". In them, he vividly described probably the greatest gruesome act in the entire history of the world, where 100,000 Hindu prisoners of war in his camp were executed in a very short space of time. Timur after taking advice from his entourage says in his memoirs :

"they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty.

In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword"

Timur thereupon resolved to put them to death. He proclaimed :

'throughout the camp that every man who has infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasir-ud-din Umar, a counselor and a man of learning, who, in all his life had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives."

Shaheed [37K)During his campaign in India Timur describes the scene when his army conquered the Indian city of Delhi :

"In a short space of time all the people in the [Delhi] fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground. All these infidel Hindus were slain, their women and children, and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death.

The Mughal emperor Babur (who ruled India from 1526 -1530 AD) writing in his memoirs called the "Baburnama" wrote : In AH 934 (2538 C.E.) I attacked Chanderi and by the grace of Allah captured it in a few hours. We got the infidels slaughtered and the place which had been Daru-Harb (nation of non-muslims) for years was made into a Daru-Islam (a muslim nation).

In Babur's own words in a poem about killing Hindus (From the Baburnama ) he wrote :

For the sake of Islam I became a
wanderer,
I battled infidels and Hindus,
I determined to become a martyr
Thank God I became a Killer of
Non-Muslims!

The atrocities of the Mughal ruler Shah Jahan (who ruled India between 1628 - 1658 AD) are mentioned in the contemporary record called : Badshah Nama, Qazinivi & Badshah Nama , Lahoria and goes on to state : When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus. The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts.Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars (Noblemen).

The Afghan ruler Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked India in 1757 AD and made his way to the holy Hindu city of Mathura, the Bethlehem of the Hindus and birthplace of Krishna.

The atrocities that followed are recorded in the contemporary chronicle called : "Tarikh-I-Alamgiri" :

"Abdali's soldiers would be paid 5 Rupees (a sizeable amount at the time) for every enemy head brought in. Every horseman had loaded up all his horses with the plundered property, and atop of it rode the girl-captives and the slaves. The severed heads were tied up in rugs like bundles of grain and placed on the heads of the captives. Then the heads were stuck upon lances and taken to the gate of the chief minister for payment.

It was an extraordinary display! Daily did this manner of slaughter and plundering proceed. And at night the shrieks of the women captives who were being raped, deafened the ears of the people. All those heads that had been cut off were built into pillars, and the captive men upon whose heads those bloody bundles had been brought in, were made to grind corn, and then their heads too were cut off. These things went on all the way to the city of Agra, nor was any part of the country spared.

BandaSingh [103K)

Banda Singh Bahadur was tortured to death after being imprisoned for 3 months. The heart of Banda Singh's son was put in his mouth in an attempt to humiliate him

Why we should remember

The biggest holocaust in World History has been whitewashed from history.

When we hear the word HOLOCAUST most of us think immediately of the Jewish holocaust. Today, with increased awareness and countless cinema films and television documentaries many of us are also aware of the Holocaust of the Native American peoples, the genocide of the Armenian peoples in the Ottoman Empire, and the millions of African lives lost during the Atlantic slave trade.

Europe and America produced at least a few thousand films highlighting the human misery caused by Hitler and his army. The films expose the horrors of Nazi regime and reinforce the beliefs and attitude of the present day generation towards the evils of the Nazi dictatorship.

In contrast look at India. There is hardly any awareness among the Indians of today of what happened to their ancestors in the past, because a great majority of historians are reluctant to touch this sensitive subject.

The World seems to either ignore or just does not seem to care about the many millions of lives lost during the 800 – year long holocaust of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhist in India.

The Indian historian Professor K.S. Lal estimates that the Hindu population in India decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD and 1525 AD, an extermination unparalleled in World history. This slaughter of millions of people occurred over regular periods during many centuries of Arab, Afghan, Turkish and Mughal rule in India.

Many Indian heroes emerged during these dark times , including the 10th Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh and also the Hindu Maratha king , Shivaji Maratha  who led the resistance against this tyranny and eventually led to its defeat by the late 1700s  after centuries of death and destruction.

The modern World today is facing a global threat from organizations and groups of terrorists such as the ISIS, Taliban and Al-Qaeeda  whose ideology is chillingly similar to that of the perpetrators of the World's biggest holocaust in India.

Let us hope that the bloody lessons of the past are learnt so that history does not even have the remotest chance of repeating itself.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/i...ocaust-world-history

Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
I would suggest that Mithwah go out and buy some real books and read from such writers and Tariq Ali or Vijay Prashad etc, and stop posting  this RSS cut and paste propaganda.

 

Abu, please point out the propaganda.

What do you call a subject matter expert that don't know the name of the subject?

I see you can't point out the propaganda. Don't make statements that you cannot support. 

No, you are now going in circles.

I think that is a darn good definition of propaganda.

Cortez anihilated the aztec for gold, the muslim did the same to the hindus. Cortez gave some of the gold of idols to the catholic church, used to adorn the walls of their churches. 

The muslims, diid  the same. The golden idols were carted off to the Caliph of Bhagdad, who adorn the walls of their mosques with gold plated arabic symbols glorifying allah.

Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing, The spaniards did it to native indians of the new world, muslims did it also the native indians of the subcontinent.

Jesus goan judge dem.

seignet posted:

Cortez anihilated the aztec for gold, the muslim did the same to the hindus. Cortez gave some of the gold of idols to the catholic church, used to adorn the walls of their churches. 

The muslims, diid  the same. The golden idols were carted off to the Caliph of Bhagdad, who adorn the walls of their mosques with gold plated arabic symbols glorifying allah.

Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing, The spaniards did it to native indians of the new world, muslims did it also the native indians of the subcontinent.

Jesus goan judge dem.

"Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing"

Rass, this must be your best so far.

Converting dead people ��������

Abu Jihad posted:
seignet posted:

Cortez anihilated the aztec for gold, the muslim did the same to the hindus. Cortez gave some of the gold of idols to the catholic church, used to adorn the walls of their churches. 

The muslims, diid  the same. The golden idols were carted off to the Caliph of Bhagdad, who adorn the walls of their mosques with gold plated arabic symbols glorifying allah.

Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing, The spaniards did it to native indians of the new world, muslims did it also the native indians of the subcontinent.

Jesus goan judge dem.

"Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing"

Rass, this must be your best so far.

Converting dead people ��������

You are probably a product of a Hindu who was forced to convert to Islam and now you are a Jihad. 

Abu Jihad posted:
Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
I would suggest that Mithwah go out and buy some real books and read from such writers and Tariq Ali or Vijay Prashad etc, and stop posting  this RSS cut and paste propaganda.

 

Abu, please point out the propaganda.

What do you call a subject matter expert that don't know the name of the subject?

I see you can't point out the propaganda. Don't make statements that you cannot support. 

No, you are now going in circles.

I think that is a darn good definition of propaganda.

Perhaps, you are a descendant of a Hindu who was forced to convert to Islam.

Tell us what is fiction on this article in the Sun and I hope to see your rebuttal to Tarek Fatah , published. I am just the messenger. 

What's wrong with setting the record straight?

By Tarek Fatah, Toronto Sun

First posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 05:33 PM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 05:50 PM EDT

Article

Aug. 15 will mark India's 70th anniversary as a free country. That was the day in 1947 when it emerged from its long, dark, winter of almost 1,000 years of foreign rule.

The first invasion of India, with the intent of permanent occupation and destruction of its Hindu ethos, was made by the Arabs in AD 710.

After that came Afghan, Turkic and Central Asian barbarians who committed untold horrors on a largely civilized and peaceful people.

India still lives with the scars of these invasions, but more on that later.

From the 16th century onwards, it was the turn of the Europeans, who ostensibly came for trade, but reduced India from being one of the most prosperous places on earth, to one of the poorest.

First came the Portuguese, followed by the Dutch, French and finally the British Raj, that lasted 200 years. India's independence 70 years ago came at a huge price and left a permanent scar that may never go away.

The 7,000-year-old Indian civilization born on the plains of Punjab and the River Indus, and in the foothills of the Himalayas, would have both its limbs amputated as the price of freedom.

What began in AD 710 as an Islamic attempt to destroy "Hind" as prophesized in Islama's doctrine of "Ghazwa-e-Hind" (Prophet Muhammad's war on India) led to India losing the very River Indus it was named after to the Islamic State of Pakistan.

The process of India's amputation began on Aug. 16, 1946, barely a year after the Second World War ended, revealing the horrors of the Holocaust, where six million Jews were targeted for annihilation.

The leader of the Pakistan movement in India, M. A. Jinnah, ordered a so-called "Direct Action Day" which ended in the killing of Hindus in the city of Calcutta, to blackmail the secular Indian National Congress to concede to his demand for the "Partition of India."

This so he could carve out an Islamic state, claiming Muslims could not live under the rule of non-Muslims, particularly the supposedly "unclean" Hindus.

On that day Jinnah unleashed his thugs in Calcutta to an orgy of death, slaughtering Hindus without mercy. Thousands were killed.

A Hindu reprisal against Muslims is what Jinnah was hoping for and he got what he had planned.

Days before the riots, Jinnah told a press conference, as reported by American journalist Margaret Bourke-White in her book, Halfway to Freedom: "We will either have a divided India or a destroyed India."

Both Jawaharlal Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi succumbed to Jinnah's blackmail.

By the time the massacres were over, few Hindus or Sikhs were left alive in Lahore, the ancient Hindu city believed to be named after "Luv" the son of Lord Ram.

While Muslims who moved to Pakistan from India came of their own accord, Hindus and Sikhs did not leave their homes on their own account. Many were hunted down and killed or chased away.

Just two years after the world had said "Never Again" what happened to the Jews in Germany happened to Hindus and Sikhs in the new Islamic state.

It is politically incorrect to say so, but the facts stare us in our face.

On Aug.15, this Muslim Indo-Canadian will not celebrate my motherland's amputation.

I leave that for the fiction writers, who live in the rarefied air where lies are passed off as goodwill gestures.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017...-indias-independence

Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
seignet posted:

Cortez anihilated the aztec for gold, the muslim did the same to the hindus. Cortez gave some of the gold of idols to the catholic church, used to adorn the walls of their churches. 

The muslims, diid  the same. The golden idols were carted off to the Caliph of Bhagdad, who adorn the walls of their mosques with gold plated arabic symbols glorifying allah.

Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing, The spaniards did it to native indians of the new world, muslims did it also the native indians of the subcontinent.

Jesus goan judge dem.

"Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing"

Rass, this must be your best so far.

Converting dead people ��������

You are probably a product of a Hindu who was forced to convert to Islam and now you are a Jihad. 

You need to take your backside to mandir this Sunday morning and pray for both of us or least post a bajjan for me to watch. 

that is what you need to focus on, not hate.

Mitwah posted:

Skelly, I remember how our old folks use to dress up de place and dem bicycles, donkey carts..... and celebrate "Swaaraj" in Guyana. Don't you?

Is Pt. Ramlall still alive?

The biggest holocaust in World History has been whitewashed from history. Anyway.....

 

I remember those days. This was a big fund raising day for the mandirs. I recall my parents dressing up and going to the Arya Samaj church near Skeldon post office.
As for Pt. Ramlall, I am not sure if he is still alive. If he is, he must be in his 90s. If I had to guess, he is deceased. He was also a staunch PPP supporter.

skeldon_man posted:
 
 As for Pt. Ramlall, I am not sure if he is still alive. If he is, he must be in his 90s. If I had to guess, he is deceased. He was also a staunch PPP supporter.

Looks like Pandit Ramlall is still alive. Only two years ago Vishnu Bisram wrote about him in a Stabroek News letter.

Abu Jihad posted:
Mitwah posted:
Abu Jihad posted:
seignet posted:

Cortez anihilated the aztec for gold, the muslim did the same to the hindus. Cortez gave some of the gold of idols to the catholic church, used to adorn the walls of their churches. 

The muslims, diid  the same. The golden idols were carted off to the Caliph of Bhagdad, who adorn the walls of their mosques with gold plated arabic symbols glorifying allah.

Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing, The spaniards did it to native indians of the new world, muslims did it also the native indians of the subcontinent.

Jesus goan judge dem.

"Murderous bastards. Catholic and muslims have alot in common, both a dem juss convert other ppl. And both by killing"

Rass, this must be your best so far.

Converting dead people ��������

You are probably a product of a Hindu who was forced to convert to Islam and now you are a Jihad. 

You need to take your backside to mandir this Sunday morning and pray for both of us or least post a bajjan for me to watch. 

that is what you need to focus on, not hate.

Jihad Bhai, I don't know have time for hate. My Great Grand Parents survived the massacres in Calcutta and Mathura. 

Is there anything inaccurate that Tarek Fatah stated here:

The process of India's amputation began on Aug. 16, 1946, barely a year after the Second World War ended, revealing the horrors of the Holocaust, where six million Jews were targeted for annihilation.

The leader of the Pakistan movement in India, M. A. Jinnah, ordered a so-called "Direct Action Day" which ended in the killing of Hindus in the city of Calcutta, to blackmail the secular Indian National Congress to concede to his demand for the "Partition of India."

This so he could carve out an Islamic state, claiming Muslims could not live under the rule of non-Muslims, particularly the supposedly "unclean" Hindus.

On that day Jinnah unleashed his thugs in Calcutta to an orgy of death, slaughtering Hindus without mercy. Thousands were killed.

A Hindu reprisal against Muslims is what Jinnah was hoping for and he got what he had planned.

Days before the riots, Jinnah told a press conference, as reported by American journalist Margaret Bourke-White in her book, Halfway to Freedom: "We will either have a divided India or a destroyed India."

Both Jawaharlal Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi succumbed to Jinnah's blackmail.

Abu Jihad posted:
Mitwah posted

You are probably a product of a Hindu who was forced to convert to Islam and now you are a Jihad. 

You need to take your backside to mandir this Sunday morning and pray for both of us or least post a bajjan for me to watch

that is what you need to focus on, not hate.

Good idea. Uncle Alladin de barbar use to sing this one. 

You can take an Indian out of India but you can never take India out of an Indian. May Allah bless India. 
 
Gilbakka posted:

We must remember that August 15 this year marks Pakistan's 70th Independence Anniversary too. The present generation of Pakistanis must not be blamed for the dismemberment of India. Offering congratulations to Pakistanis on this upcoming milestone are in order.

The majority of Pakistanis are good people. There is a minority of them that have extreme hate for Hindus of India. But there are also Nepali Hindus who have extreme hate for India Hindus.

For me when genetic identity talks religion has to take a distant walk. What is of major concern, in recent years, is the spread of Arab culture and Arab identity to people of South Asian decent that have absolutely no genetic connection to Arabs. It is the ultimate betrayal of our Indo- Aryan and Dravidian heritage.

Mitwah posted:

A sample of contemporary eyewitness accounts of the invaders and rulers, during the Indian conquests

The Afghan ruler Mahmud al-Ghazni invaded India no less than seventeen times between 1001 and 1026 AD. The book "Tarikh-i-Yamini" written by his secretary documents several episodes of his bloody military campaigns : The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously [at the Indian city of Thanesar] that the stream was discoloured, notwithstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it; the infidels deserted the fort and tried to cross the foaming river; but many of them were slain, taken or drowned. Nearly fifty thousand men were killed.

In the contemporary record " Taj-ul-Ma asir" by Hassn Nizam-i-Naishapuri, it is stated that when Qutb-ul- Din Aibak (of Turko  Afghan origin and the First Sultan of Delhi 1194-1210 AD) conquered Meerat, he demolished all the Hindu temples of the city and erected mosques on their sites. In the city of Aligarh, he converted Hindu inhabitants to Islam by the sword and beheaded all those who adhered to their own religion.

18thCentury [41K)The Persian historian Wassaf writes in his book "Tazjiyat-ul-Amsar wa Tajriyat ul Asar" that when the Alaul-Din Khilji (An Afghan of Turkish origin and second ruler of the Khilji Dynasty in India 1295-1316 AD) captured the city of Kambayat at the head of the gulf of Cambay, he killed the adult male Hindu inhabitants for the glory of Islam, set flowing rivers of blood, sent the women of the country with all their gold, silver, and jewels, to his own home, and made about twentv thousand Hindu maidens his private slaves.

This ruler once asked his spiritual advisor (or "Qazi") as to what was the Islamic law prescribed for the Hindus. The Qazi replied:

"Hindus are like the mud; if silver is demanded from them, they must with the greatest humility offer gold. If a Mohammadan desires to spit into a Hindu's mouth, the Hindu should open it wide for the purpose. God created the Hindus to be slaves of the Mohammadans. The Prophet hath ordained that, if the Hindus do not accept Islam, they should be imprisoned, tortured, finally put to death, and their property confiscated."

Sacrifice [44K)Timur was a Turkic conqueror and founder of the Timurid Dynasty. Timur's Indian campaign (1398 - 1399 AD) was recorded in his memoirs, collectively known as "Tuzk-i-Timuri". In them, he vividly described probably the greatest gruesome act in the entire history of the world, where 100,000 Hindu prisoners of war in his camp were executed in a very short space of time. Timur after taking advice from his entourage says in his memoirs :

"they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty.

In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword"

Timur thereupon resolved to put them to death. He proclaimed :

'throughout the camp that every man who has infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasir-ud-din Umar, a counselor and a man of learning, who, in all his life had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives."

Shaheed [37K)During his campaign in India Timur describes the scene when his army conquered the Indian city of Delhi :

"In a short space of time all the people in the [Delhi] fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground. All these infidel Hindus were slain, their women and children, and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death.

The Mughal emperor Babur (who ruled India from 1526 -1530 AD) writing in his memoirs called the "Baburnama" wrote : In AH 934 (2538 C.E.) I attacked Chanderi and by the grace of Allah captured it in a few hours. We got the infidels slaughtered and the place which had been Daru-Harb (nation of non-muslims) for years was made into a Daru-Islam (a muslim nation).

In Babur's own words in a poem about killing Hindus (From the Baburnama ) he wrote :

For the sake of Islam I became a
wanderer,
I battled infidels and Hindus,
I determined to become a martyr
Thank God I became a Killer of
Non-Muslims!

The atrocities of the Mughal ruler Shah Jahan (who ruled India between 1628 - 1658 AD) are mentioned in the contemporary record called : Badshah Nama, Qazinivi & Badshah Nama , Lahoria and goes on to state : When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus. The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts.Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars (Noblemen).

The Afghan ruler Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked India in 1757 AD and made his way to the holy Hindu city of Mathura, the Bethlehem of the Hindus and birthplace of Krishna.

The atrocities that followed are recorded in the contemporary chronicle called : "Tarikh-I-Alamgiri" :

"Abdali's soldiers would be paid 5 Rupees (a sizeable amount at the time) for every enemy head brought in. Every horseman had loaded up all his horses with the plundered property, and atop of it rode the girl-captives and the slaves. The severed heads were tied up in rugs like bundles of grain and placed on the heads of the captives. Then the heads were stuck upon lances and taken to the gate of the chief minister for payment.

It was an extraordinary display! Daily did this manner of slaughter and plundering proceed. And at night the shrieks of the women captives who were being raped, deafened the ears of the people. All those heads that had been cut off were built into pillars, and the captive men upon whose heads those bloody bundles had been brought in, were made to grind corn, and then their heads too were cut off. These things went on all the way to the city of Agra, nor was any part of the country spared.

BandaSingh [103K)

Banda Singh Bahadur was tortured to death after being imprisoned for 3 months. The heart of Banda Singh's son was put in his mouth in an attempt to humiliate him

Why we should remember

The biggest holocaust in World History has been whitewashed from history.

When we hear the word HOLOCAUST most of us think immediately of the Jewish holocaust. Today, with increased awareness and countless cinema films and television documentaries many of us are also aware of the Holocaust of the Native American peoples, the genocide of the Armenian peoples in the Ottoman Empire, and the millions of African lives lost during the Atlantic slave trade.

Europe and America produced at least a few thousand films highlighting the human misery caused by Hitler and his army. The films expose the horrors of Nazi regime and reinforce the beliefs and attitude of the present day generation towards the evils of the Nazi dictatorship.

In contrast look at India. There is hardly any awareness among the Indians of today of what happened to their ancestors in the past, because a great majority of historians are reluctant to touch this sensitive subject.

The World seems to either ignore or just does not seem to care about the many millions of lives lost during the 800 – year long holocaust of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhist in India.

The Indian historian Professor K.S. Lal estimates that the Hindu population in India decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD and 1525 AD, an extermination unparalleled in World history. This slaughter of millions of people occurred over regular periods during many centuries of Arab, Afghan, Turkish and Mughal rule in India.

Many Indian heroes emerged during these dark times , including the 10th Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh and also the Hindu Maratha king , Shivaji Maratha  who led the resistance against this tyranny and eventually led to its defeat by the late 1700s  after centuries of death and destruction.

The modern World today is facing a global threat from organizations and groups of terrorists such as the ISIS, Taliban and Al-Qaeeda  whose ideology is chillingly similar to that of the perpetrators of the World's biggest holocaust in India.

Let us hope that the bloody lessons of the past are learnt so that history does not even have the remotest chance of repeating itself.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/i...ocaust-world-history

The main reason for Japanese internment in the second world war by the Allies is because the Japanese soldiers in the Japanese Imperial Army were refusing to surrender and would die fighting. Therefore the Allies had nothing to exchange for their prisoners of war. Thus, the internment of their Japanese population. These 100,000 Hindus that were slaughtered should have died fighting. At least they would have taken a chunk of the enemy out of the picture.

Prash, I always wondered why they did not fight back. 

Timur thereupon resolved to put them to death. He proclaimed :

"throughout the camp that every man who has infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasir-ud-din Umar, a counselor and a man of learning, who, in all his life had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives."

I think the reason is. The Hindus expected the Muslim forces to follow the war protocol of the Buddha forces, Zorastra forces and Hindus forces that they had fought in the past thus having mercy on them and release them after battle .They had no way of knowing that the Qur'anic teachings only offer mercy to people of the Holy book which are fellow Muslims,  Christians and Jews.

Prash as the article says: 

Many Indian heroes emerged during these dark times , including the 10th Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh and also the Hindu Maratha king , Shivaji Maratha  who led the resistance against this tyranny and eventually led to its defeat by the late 1700s  after centuries of death and destruction.

The slaughter of Hindus by invading Islamic forces and the killing of American GI soldiers by surrendering Japanese soldiers during the early stages of the war in the Pacific are textbook examples of why the professional soldier must always strive to be culturally competent. Professional soldiers must always strive to understand the ideological thinking of their enemies. Know their cultural norms and values. In other words know what makes their enemies tick. That is why the Central Intelligence Agency since its creation after WW2 has spent millions of dollars every year studying the cultural biases of people around the world.

The founder of the Sikh religion clearly was culturally competent. He studied several religions in detail. He even went so far as to sneek into Mecca to study it. For a non muslim at that time it was almost impossible to do. Also several early converts to the Sikh religion were also former muslims.

Mitwah posted:

Prash as the article says: 

Many Indian heroes emerged during these dark times , including the 10th Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh and also the Hindu Maratha king , Shivaji Maratha  who led the resistance against this tyranny and eventually led to its defeat by the late 1700s  after centuries of death and destruction.

Shivaji Maratha was indeed, from a military perspective, a great warrior king. He revived Hinduism in the parts of India that he had conquered. Nevertheless; at the same time he brutalized and exploited poor Hindus with his various tax collection schemes. This was worse than their former Muslim rulers had imposed on them. 

Prashad posted:

 Professional soldiers must always strive to understand the ideological thinking of their enemies. Know their cultural norms and values. In other words know what makes their enemies tick. That is why the Central Intelligence Agency since its creation after WW2 has spent millions of dollars every year studying the cultural biases of people around the world.

Prash, how do you square that with the atrocities of American soldiers in Mai Lai Vietnam in 1968, ie the killing of around 500 unarmed civilians including women and kids. And also the torture and abuse of unarmed Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib in 2003 by US soldiers?

MAI LAI:

ABU GHRAIB:

 

Mitwah posted:

With the invasion of India by Mahmud Ghazni about 1000 A.D., began the Muslim invasions into the Indian subcontinent and they lasted for several centuries. The Muslim invasions continued even when the Muslims were ruling India, like the invasion of the Mongols during the reign of the Khiljis or the invasion of the Mughals in the early sixteenth Century when the Lodis were ruling Delhi. The last notable invasion of the Muslims from outside was the invasion of Nadir Shah in 1739, during which he unleashed a great horror on the native population.

During these seven hundred years of Muslim invasions and their conquest and rule of India, the Hindus were the greatest sufferers. It is difficult to estimate the number of Hindus who lost their lives during these campaigns, the number of Hindus who died because of the religious persecution perpetrated on the native population by the Muslim rulers, and the number of Hindus who were forcibly converted to Islam.

According to Prof. K.S. Lal, the author of the Growth of Muslim population in India, the Hindu population decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD, the year Mahmud Ghazni invaded India and 1525 AD, a year before the battle of Panipat.

One can safely add another 20 million Hindus to this list to account for the number that were killed during the Mughal rule or the rule of the Muslim rulers in the Deccan plateau. By all known accounts of world history, as pointed out by Koenard Elst in his book the Negationism in India, destruction of about 100 million Hindus is perhaps the biggest holocaust in the whole world history.

Europe never forgot or forgave the atrocities of the Nazi rule under Hitler. We hardly come across any positive reference to either Hitler or his army in the present day text books on European History. No one talks there of the qualities of Hitler as a great commander or an inspiring leader of German people whom he could mould and influence with his hypnotic speeches. No films are made showing Hitler as a romantic hero singing songs and his mistress as a heroine shedding copious tears over her lover! 

The European consciousness is filled with the evil deeds perpetrated by his regime, thanks to the untiring work of their politicians, journalists, historians and film producers, so much so that the very thought of seeing any virtue in either Hitler or Nazis is abhorrent to the consciousness of the present day Europeans.

Europe and America produced at least a few thousand films highlighting the human misery caused by Hitler and his army. The films expose the horrors of Nazi regime and reinforce the beliefs and attitude of the present day generation towards the evils of the Nazi dictatorship.

In contrast look at India. There is hardly any awareness among the Indians of today of what happened to their ancestors in the past, because a great majority of historians are reluctant to touch this sensitive subject. It is not difficult for the Indian historians to gather information on the kind of atrocities perpetrated against the people of medieval India, to work out the estimated number people killed in the reign of each ruler, to create vivid pictures of what happened during such battles as the battle of Tallikota when Hampi, the capital of Vijayanagara empire was systematically destroyed for weeks.

Nadir Shah made a mountain of the skulls of the Hindus he killed in Delhi alone. Babur raised towers of Hindu skulls at Khanua when he defeated Rana Sanga in 1527 and later he repeated the same horrors after capturing the fort of Chanderi. Akbar ordered a general massacre of 30000 Rajputs after he captured Chithor in 1568. The Bahamani Sultans had an annual agenda of killing a minimum of 100000 Hindus every year. The history of medieval India is full of such instances.

TBC. http://www.hinduwebsite.com/history/holocaust.asp

 

Chief should revert back to the religion of his ancestors before they were forcibly converted at the tip of a sword.

Mars posted:
Chief should revert back to the religion of his ancestors before they were forcibly converted at the tip of a sword.

Chief might deny that his Indian ancestors were once Hindus. Many Guyanese Muslims live in that denial. But, for the record, I must point out that not all Muslim conversions occurred at the tip of a sword. Many Hindus, particularly from the oppressed lower castes and the outcastes, voluntarily converted to Islam and were happier afterward.

I think India has had a long history of violence that preceded the Muslims' presence as evidenced by the many stories we read in the Ramayana as well as other Hindu books. That does not diminish the wickedness of the Muslims but it is probably to pretend that India was a peaceful place before that.

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