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The President did not violate the constitution

 
 
  

…but his decision is politically counter-productive

 

http://guyanachronicle.com/201...violate-constitution

WE should have seen it coming, but as we are prone to do, we hoped it wouldn’t happen. I always felt that the best outcome for the PPP and the one they craved was for the president to unilaterally appoint the chair of GECOM. At some point I also got the feeling that the President did not mind this outcome. I dreaded the latter and hoped that the President would resist this temptation.

I felt that while it would be beneficial to the president’s partisan interests, it would in the broader scheme of things be counterproductive. The President and his government needed to find a way short of unilateral action to get the person they want.
I wish to make a few observations. First, we have seen in the past that the role of the GECOM chair is pivotal in an institution where the two political sides have equal representation and they vote along party lines. The vote of the chair could indirectly affect the outcome of an election as far as standing in the way of attempts to rig the process is concerned. We saw in both 2011 and 2015 how the PPP and its sympathetic GECOM officials were prepared to manipulate the system to favour a PPP victory.
In such circumstances the chairperson becomes important. The President and the coalition, therefore, would want a chairperson whom they are sure would not be hostile to them and their interests.

Second, during the PPP’s tenure, that party chose three Indian-Guyanese to fill that position. All three are/ were honourable men, but in our ethnically divided society, their ethnicity is highlighted. In our ethnically heightened situation, that matters whether we choose to say it aloud or not.
Many observers are convinced that Dr. Jagan and Mr. Jagdeo were very deliberate when they made their choices. It is clear that they felt that the ethnicity of the chair was a means by which to secure some sense of security that their interests would not be subverted. That explains the deep hostility to Surujbally after the party lost the 2011 and 2015 elections

Third, it is reasonable then to expect that this new government would want to do the same—that is, to choose someone of their ethnic group in whom they have confidence. I think that was the unspoken position of the majority faction of the coalition. But they did not have the courage to say so publicly, because of the fear of being charged with “racialising” the issue.

So, the plan was simple: use a narrow reading of the constitution to achieve a political objective. In that sense, the President’s insistence on a retired judge as the “fit and proper” person and the implication that the lists were flawed because they did not wholly or substantively comply with this criterion, was the perfect path to achieve this objective.
Fourth, I think the PPP and Mr. Jagdeo knew Mr Granger and the government wanted their own person and set out to frustrate it. They were careful in all three of the lists not to give Mr. Granger an “independent” African-Guyanese acceptable to him. In doing so, they were pushing him towards unilateralism, which they hope to use as fodder for their narrative that the government has a plan to postpone or rig the next election.
Fifth, it is because of this obvious PPP ploy that I believe that the president should have avoided making a unilateral decision. In doing so he has given a weapon to the PPP and other independent interests which are skeptical about the coalition’s commitment to democratic governance.

The President has not acted unconstitutionally as the PPP is bellowing—the constitution is clear about that and the chief justice has recently upheld that reading. But while the decision is constitutionally sound, it is politically senseless. I don’t think they had reached the point of last resort.
There was still room for compromise on the matter. The president should have continued to negotiate with Jagdeo and let the process push him to unilateral action, rather than pre-empting the situation.

Sixth, the fact is that the PNC has more of the authoritarian tag than the PPP. So, the coalition should always resist doing things that smell of authoritarian intent. The PPP, as it has indicated, will milk this development for all its worth. They now have a symbolic reason to make the country ungovernable. This decision will not cost the coalition votes, but it would damage their image, which is already suffering. And the PPP’s position would find common ground with sections of the society which are partial to the coalition, but suspicious of its democratic commitment.

Seventh, President Granger made the final decision, but Mr. Jagdeo is equally responsible for the outcome. He did nothing to make consensus easier and everything to put obstacles in the way—and this to my mind was deliberately done. This, in my view, was very insensitive on the PPP’s part—they showed absolutely no respect for ethnic balance and for the symbolism of ethnic give-and-take. Consensus-building is a two-way process and the opposition leader and his party have equal responsibility in this process.
Eighth, I think the president’s decision reflects how poisoned our political environment is. The decision by the president represents another colossal failure on the part of our political leaderships. If the president and the opposition leader could not find consensus on this matter, then I am afraid that our political future as a joint nation is bleak. We should wake up to the reality that our leaders on both sides do not have what it takes to manage our difficult multi-ethnic society. That, to me, is the sad reality.

Ninth, the president has made his decision and not unexpectedly, all hell has broken loose in PPP land. The PPP and its allies such as the Private Sector Commission have predicted doom and the PPP has vowed to fight the matter to the bitter end and in the process, withhold any cooperation with the government. The latter stance is nothing new, since the PPP has never cooperated with the government.
So, this latest tantrum by the PPP is aimed at galvanising and maintaining anti-government sentiments among the party’s supporters. We can hope to see the usual litany of media interventions about the death of democracy and about the reincarnation of Burnhamism and PNC dictatorship. For all its partisan intent, such PPP media barrage will gain more traction because the government and the coalition are already on the backfoot. And in any case, they are very poor at political polemics and narrative-making.
Tenth, some government supporters are cheering the president’s actions as representative of constitutional correctness. I am afraid that such an argument will not change minds. Constitutional correctness does not always amount to political correctness. In the world of politics, the question is always whether your constitutional action is carried out within the appropriate political context. The politics of the President’s actions is bad.

Eleventh, I wish to caution those government supporters who are cheering the bypassing of consensus about this—remember how it felt when for 23 years the representatives of African-Guyanese were forcibly and constitutionally excluded from decision-making. The negative consequences of that experience still haunt the African-Guyanese community. Consensus politics is not about rewarding Jagdeo and the PPP. It is about being sensitive to Indian-Guyanese security and guaranteeing African-Guyanese inclusion in the political process in a winner-take-all system that is loaded against them

Finally, it was not helpful that the AFC has revealed that it was not consulted on this decision. I am sure the President would say that the AFC leader was consulted, since he was present at the meeting with Mr. Jagdeo. I doubt that the WPA was consulted. Maybe, the PNC as a party was consulted. In any case, once again we come face to face with the problem of little or no meaningful consultation within the coalition outside of the Cabinet. My views on this are well known.

More of Dr. Hinds ‘writings and commentaries can be found on his YouTube Channel Hinds’ Sight: Dr. David Hinds’ Guyana-Caribbean Politics and on his website www.guyanacaribbeanpolitics.com. Send comments to dhinds6106@aol.com

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Hinds is a CERTIFIED JACKASS!!!! A person who is so illiterate and prone to LIES and distortions  is irrelevant!!!

We saw in both 2011 and 2015 how the PPP and its sympathetic GECOM officials were prepared to manipulate the system to favour a PPP

Nehru

Carib pointed out that the next election will be one of the worst based on race. Hinds is apparently playing that race card by endorsing the unilateral dictatorial decision by Granger.

FM
RiffRaff posted:

Funny how perspectives on articles are normally based on what side of the fence we standing

 

I will leave that alone since I dont have much time to waist BUT my neighba seh facts and figga nah lie!!!!!

Nehru

According to Hinds, the PPP are to blame for what they did when they were in government and they are also to blame for what Granger does as President. Like how Carib likes to blame everyone and everything except who should be really responsible.

FM
Homme posted:

Please point out what is "racist" about David Hinds' analysis

Permit me to interject here....

Dr Hinds is a Rodneyite and a Black nationalist. There is nothing wrong with this. This is the perspective from which he is writing. Sometimes his ideology and philosophy gets the best of him. I recall reading a SN article where he continually branded the PPP govt as favoring the Indos and working to deny resources to Afros. He has never proven this point, but se continued this line. I am not saying that Afros were not slighted under the PPP by any means. Clearly, corruption was endemic and crime was out of control under the PPP (so was the 28 years).

But here is the racism in Hinds arguments:

Second, during the PPP’s tenure, that party chose three Indian-Guyanese to fill that position. All three are/ were honourable men, but in our ethnically divided society, their ethnicity is highlighted. In our ethnically heightened situation, that matters whether we choose to say it aloud or not.

But does this justify Granger’s actions. Race matters and it impacts everything being done by any government in Guyan. If we keep condemning what the PPP has done, why are we still using them as a yardstick? This government came to office promising change.

The issue is about the illegality and unconstitutional way in which this person was chosen…. Si, if Granger is guided by the way the PPP chose their chairmen, then he is being guided by racist perspective.


Third, it is reasonable then to expect that this new government would want to do the same—that is, to choose someone of their ethnic group in whom they have confidence. I think that was the unspoken position of the majority faction of the coalition. But they did not have the courage to say so publicly, because of the fear of being charged with “racialising” the issue.

Like I said, it is not reasonable. This government was given a chance to bring in a new forward thinking to move us away from the past…but they play the same old politics.

So, the plan was simple: use a narrow reading of the constitution to achieve a political objective. In that sense, the President’s insistence on a retired judge as the “fit and proper” person and the implication that the lists were flawed because they did not wholly or substantively comply with this criterion, was the perfect path to achieve this objective.

No, I disagree. It is widely felt that this is more of a political act, rather than Granger being guided by the Constitution.
Fourth, I think the PPP and Mr. Jagdeo knew Mr Granger and the government wanted their own person and set out to frustrate it. They were careful in all three of the lists not to give Mr. Granger an “independent” African-Guyanese acceptable to him. In doing so, they were pushing him towards unilateralism, which they hope to use as fodder for their narrative that the government has a plan to postpone or rig the next election.

So here we go again…arguing that the Opposition controlled the process…its ridiculous.


The President has not acted unconstitutionally as the PPP is bellowing—the constitution is clear about that and the chief justice has recently upheld that reading. But while the decision is constitutionally sound, it is politically senseless.

The President acted unconstitutionally. I agree here, it was politically stupid to act in this unilateral manner.

The PPP, as it has indicated, will milk this development for all its worth. They now have a symbolic reason to make the country ungovernable. This decision will not cost the coalition votes, but it would damage their image, which is already suffering. And the PPP’s position would find common ground with sections of the society which are partial to the coalition, but suspicious of its democratic commitment.

Don’t you think if it was the PPP doing this, the PNC would not milk it to the bone…if not burning buildings in Regent street?

Seventh, President Granger made the final decision, but Mr. Jagdeo is equally responsible for the outcome. He did nothing to make consensus easier and everything to put obstacles in the way—and this to my mind was deliberately done.

How can we say this after the submission of 18 names and 3 lists?

 

As per Hinds, the only thing that makes sense here is the following: :

Tenth, some government supporters are cheering the president’s actions as representative of constitutional correctness. I am afraid that such an argument will not change minds. Constitutional correctness does not always amount to political correctness. In the world of politics, the question is always whether your constitutional action is carried out within the appropriate political context. The politics of the President’s actions is bad.

Eleventh, I wish to caution those government supporters who are cheering the bypassing of consensus about this—remember how it felt when for 23 years the representatives of African-Guyanese were forcibly and constitutionally excluded from decision-making. The negative consequences of that experience still haunt the African-Guyanese community. Consensus politics is not about rewarding Jagdeo and the PPP. It is about being sensitive to Indian-Guyanese security and guaranteeing African-Guyanese inclusion in the political process in a winner-take-all system that is loaded against them

Finally, it was not helpful that the AFC has revealed that it was not consulted on this decision. I am sure the President would say that the AFC leader was consulted, since he was present at the meeting with Mr. Jagdeo. I doubt that the WPA was consulted. Maybe, the PNC as a party was consulted. In any case, once again we come face to face with the problem of little or no meaningful consultation within the coalition outside of the Cabinet. My views on this are well known.

V
yuji22 posted:

Carib pointed out that the next election will be one of the worst based on race. Hinds is apparently playing that race card by endorsing the unilateral dictatorial decision by Granger.

In fact Hinds does NOT endorse this move. He CONDEMNS it.

You being an illiterate and filled with hates of blacks didn't even read this.

It is precisely because this move by Granger does nothing to transform the level of politics in Guyana is why he condemns it.

Up to now the PPP cannot prove that it was an illegal act.   They cite a process put in place by Carter, but that is NOT the constitution, because they simpletons didn't even amend the constitution to block a unilateral act by the president.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
he continually branded the PPP govt as favoring the Indos and working to deny resources to Afros. He has never proven this point, 

This point was proved by Nigel Hughes and Freddie Kissoon in their defense against Jagdeo's lawsuit.  Jagdeo dropped the lawsuit because he couldn't prove that Kissoon's allegations that Jagdeo was an institutional racist were wrong.  Luncheon was unable to refute these claims or furnish proof that the PPP didn't have an Indian (elite) bias.

That ship sailed long ago.  The PPP  stunk of anti black bias.  And their racist campaign in 2015, when they became ROAR II, reinforced it.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
VishMahabir posted:
Homme posted:

Please point out what is "racist" about David Hinds' analysis

 

But here is the racism in Hinds arguments:

Second, during the PPP’s tenure, that party chose three Indian-Guyanese to fill that position. All three are/ were honourable men, but in our ethnically divided society, their ethnicity is highlighted. In our ethnically heightened situation, that matters whether we choose to say it aloud or not.

 

Since when is it racist to point out the fact that in a nation where Indians are less than 50% of the population that 100% of GECOM chairs were Indians. And that in an ethnically polarized nation this sends a wrong message?

Why is it OK to protest PNC exclusion of Indians but not when the PPP deliberately set out to exclude Africans.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
Homme posted:

Please point out what is "racist" about David Hinds' analysis

 

Eleventh, I wish to caution those government supporters who are cheering the bypassing of consensus about this—remember how it felt when for 23 years the representatives of African-Guyanese were forcibly and constitutionally excluded from decision-making. The negative consequences of that experience still haunt the African-Guyanese community. Consensus politics is not about rewarding Jagdeo and the PPP. It is about being sensitive to Indian-Guyanese security and guaranteeing African-Guyanese inclusion in the political process in a winner-take-all system that is loaded against them

 

 

Hinds is honest enough to caution Africans about supporting the exclusion of Indians, and yet whenever the subject of Indian exclusion of Africans comes up you scream that such discussion is racist.

Here we have Hinds being branded a racist even as he admits to the fact that exclusion of Indians is not good.  He acknowledges that Indians have been excluded. He supports their right to complain about this.

I have NOT seen Hinds being branded as a self hating "curry eating" "roti loving" black for saying this, the way that an Indian would have been lambasted.

Face it. Indians have a lot to do to earn the trust of blacks, and we haven't seen evidence of this yet. They can start by not ridiculing the minute numbers of Indians who are willing to discuss Indian racism.

FM
caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Homme posted:

Please point out what is "racist" about David Hinds' analysis

 

But here is the racism in Hinds arguments:

Second, during the PPP’s tenure, that party chose three Indian-Guyanese to fill that position. All three are/ were honourable men, but in our ethnically divided society, their ethnicity is highlighted. In our ethnically heightened situation, that matters whether we choose to say it aloud or not.

 

Since when is it racist to point out the fact that in a nation where Indians are less than 50% of the population that 100% of GECOM chairs were Indians. And that in an ethnically polarized nation this sends a wrong message?

Why is it OK to protest PNC exclusion of Indians but not when the PPP deliberately set out to exclude Africans.

Its OK to protest PNC exclusion off Indians because they are the majority minority (though you love to remind everyone that Indos are less than 50%). The coalition has not seriously reconciled that most Indians are not supporting the government and they are not making a serious attempt to attract Indos. 

It is OK to protest because many of us (including myself) supported the coalition and hoped it would at least paved the way for racial reconciliation. 

When was there ever 100% Indos in GECOM?

And why is it that your yardstick is always measured against what the PPP did. Most people admit the PPP shortcomings. Stop living in the past, no one wants to go back 23 years, much less 28 years.

V
caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Homme posted:

Please point out what is "racist" about David Hinds' analysis

 

Eleventh, I wish to caution those government supporters who are cheering the bypassing of consensus about this—remember how it felt when for 23 years the representatives of African-Guyanese were forcibly and constitutionally excluded from decision-making. The negative consequences of that experience still haunt the African-Guyanese community. Consensus politics is not about rewarding Jagdeo and the PPP. It is about being sensitive to Indian-Guyanese security and guaranteeing African-Guyanese inclusion in the political process in a winner-take-all system that is loaded against them

 

 

Hinds is honest enough to caution Africans about supporting the exclusion of Indians, and yet whenever the subject of Indian exclusion of Africans comes up you scream that such discussion is racist.

Here we have Hinds being branded a racist even as he admits to the fact that exclusion of Indians is not good.  He acknowledges that Indians have been excluded. He supports their right to complain about this.

I have NOT seen Hinds being branded as a self hating "curry eating" "roti loving" black for saying this, the way that an Indian would have been lambasted.

Face it. Indians have a lot to do to earn the trust of blacks, and we haven't seen evidence of this yet. They can start by not ridiculing the minute numbers of Indians who are willing to discuss Indian racism.

Your words have a dual meaning...and you are only looking at the African perspective. I don’t recall saying Hinds is a racist...except that he does not substantiate his accusations against the PPP with facts.

The point I was making was that if Granger is adopting the mindset that Indos dominated the GECOM, and if he is acting like the PPP leaders out of fear of Indians, then it is difficult to not acknowledge, based on this action, that he falls within the same race prism as most Guyanese. 

V
VishMahabir posted:
caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:
Homme posted:

Please point out what is "racist" about David Hinds' analysis

 

But here is the racism in Hinds arguments:

Second, during the PPP’s tenure, that party chose three Indian-Guyanese to fill that position. All three are/ were honourable men, but in our ethnically divided society, their ethnicity is highlighted. In our ethnically heightened situation, that matters whether we choose to say it aloud or not.

 

Since when is it racist to point out the fact that in a nation where Indians are less than 50% of the population that 100% of GECOM chairs were Indians. And that in an ethnically polarized nation this sends a wrong message?

Why is it OK to protest PNC exclusion of Indians but not when the PPP deliberately set out to exclude Africans.

Its OK to protest PNC exclusion off Indians because they are the majority minority (though you love to remind everyone that Indos are less than 50%). The coalition has not seriously reconciled that most Indians are not supporting the government and they are not making a serious attempt to attract Indos. 

It is OK to protest because many of us (including myself) supported the coalition and hoped it would at least paved the way for racial reconciliation. 

When was there ever 100% Indos in GECOM?

And why is it that your yardstick is always measured against what the PPP did. Most people admit the PPP shortcomings. Stop living in the past, no one wants to go back 23 years, much less 28 years.

Think about this....watch how the other side will brush aside Granger’s action in this case because they will argue that most of the opposition are PPP or Indo led organizations.

This is an even more powerful reason why Granger should not have done what he did...its creating greater division...social cohesion is dead...at least for now.

V

What cribby will not tell us is the # of black pnc poll workers who are involved in rigging. It is not necessarily the high level management like Patterson that are the most important factors in the rigging. The PNC already had their agents at the low level as poll workers and counters who were riggers. That is why as soon as Carter send in his observers, the rigging slowed down.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
 

Its OK to protest PNC exclusion off Indians because they are the majority minority

So being 40% of the population means that they should be the only ones to be selected as GECOM chairmen.  I think not!

The black/part black population now exceeds the Indian in case you didn't know, so does that mean that every candidate be someone who has some element of African ancestry?

FM
Drugb posted:

What cribby will not tell us is the # of black pnc poll workers who are involved in rigging. 

Hmmm. With the PPP running the show you are going to tell me that they passively allowed black clerks to rig.

Druggie try again.  In no system will clerks be able to subvert an operation.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
...social cohesion is dead...at least for now.

Social cohesion died long ago.  I don't know why you didn't get the message that blacks wanted revenge for how the PPP treated them and the ageing cohort of the group certainly got this.

I suggest you deal with the fact that the PPP did a lot of wrong to blacks instead of demanding that blacks be fairer to Indians than Indians were to blacks.

Its interesting that when it was Indo rule you all didn't listen to black complaints, now you demand that yours get listened to.

As far as many of those APNU people are concerned they know that the PPP has an advantage given the larger Indo population so they want to protect themselves as individuals when the Indo KKK comes roaring back, with fire breathing vengeance.

You ought to suggest that the PPP takes account of the fact that with the largest core support base the onus is on THEM to lead social cohesion, but we don't see any evidence of this from Jagdeo.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
VishMahabir posted:
.

Your words have a dual meaning...and you are only looking at the African perspective.  

When do YOU ever look at the African perspective.  You don't. Your concern is SOLELY about the Indian perspective.

So don't tell me that I shouldn't be concerned about blacks. If blacks don't care about themselves in a racist Guyana who will?  NOT Indians!

Hinds can acknowledge that blacks shouldn't celebrate the exclusion of Indians. He can do so with fully knowledge that he will not be condemned  for saying this.

I just cannot imagine Ryhaan Shah, Jagdeo and the other assorted Indo racists showing any concern about how Afro Guyanese feel.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
 

When was there ever 100% Indos in GECOM?

 

GECOM leadership has always been Indian and on some occasions so was the deputy.  Its the leader who sets the tone and in a racially polarized place like Guyana one cannot accept a notion that only one race should occupy certain leadership positions.

And yes I use the PPP as a yardstick because they are the alternate party.

I know that the Slow Holocaust of blacks under the PPP didn't concern you because your focus is only on Indians, but don't expect blacks to share your view on this.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
VishMahabir posted:
 

Think about this....watch how the other side will brush aside Granger’s action in this case because they will argue that most of the opposition are PPP or Indo led organizations.

.

AAAH yes, Indos can dominate certain organizations but blacks mustn't similarly organize.

How about telling those groups to show "social cohesion" before you demand that blacks must.

Its interesting how every discussion on race starts with the premise that the black is the ONLY guilty party so the onus is ONLY on the black to be open.

No the onus is on BOTH major ethnic groups to do this!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
Drugb posted:

What cribby will not tell us is the # of black pnc poll workers who are involved in rigging. 

Hmmm. With the PPP running the show you are going to tell me that they passively allowed black clerks to rig.

Druggie try again.  In no system will clerks be able to subvert an operation.

Correct, just like they "allow" blackman to dominate the police and civil service to the tune of 99.9%. 

FM
Drugb posted:
 

Correct, just like they "allow" blackman to dominate the police and civil service to the tune of 99.9%. 

Its funny that most of the members of Jagdeo's paramilitia squads were also blacks, some GDF and police moonlighting.  Others being former PNC hooligans like the one who you like to quote who bellowed that he preferred working for the PPP because they put milk in the tea.

Why didn't you join the GDF?  You were young enough in 1992.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
 

Correct, just like they "allow" blackman to dominate the police and civil service to the tune of 99.9%. 

Its funny that most of the members of Jagdeo's paramilitia squads were also blacks, some GDF and police moonlighting.  Others being former PNC hooligans like the one who you like to quote who bellowed that he preferred working for the PPP because they put milk in the tea.

Why didn't you join the GDF?  You were young enough in 1992.

Bai I migrated in 83, if not I might have been a military strongman ruling Guyana today and you and djangy would be shining my shoes and washing my car.  But getting back to the point, Jagdeo never had a paramilitia squad, these are stories you are making up as you go along. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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