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FM
Former Member

From what I gather here that is the real story of today for both parties.

 

Nagamootoo failed at reaching his burden at Whim. He had to resort to a Georgetown "motorcade."

 

The PPP also appear to have bused in Berbician voters to Kitty.

Basically what we witnessed today was a farce from both sides. In a battle of charades, the PPP wins. The PPP further appears to be milking incumbency for all it's worth quite successfully.

 

I think the emerging story is that the electorate remains largely as polarized as ever. It is not totally clear though if a polarized electorate still heavily favor the PPP in light of the Indian demographic demise.

 

I also think that the PPP is banking on an Indian+Amerindian rescue operation. And it is favored to work in theory. It's probably why they're still in Government today.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

From what I gather here that is the real story of today for both parties.

 

Nagamootoo failed at reaching his burden at Whim. He had to resort to a Georgetown "motorcade."

 

The PPP also appear to have bused in Berbician voters to Kitty.

Basically what we witnessed today was a farce from both sides. In a battle of charades, the PPP wins. The PPP further appears to be milking incumbency for all it's worth quite successfully.

 

I think the emerging story is that the electorate remains largely as polarized as ever. It is not totally clear though if a polarized electorate still heavily favor the PPP in light of the Indian demographic demise.

 

I also think that the PPP is banking on an Indian+Amerindian rescue operation. And it is favored to work in theory. It's probably why they're still in Government today.

 

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Shaitaan,

 

I keep telling you that you are backing dead PNC horse.

 

I know it's hard for any Opposition party to oust the Government especially in a place like Guyana and with the PNC's sordid history.

 

For me, it's not about winning or losing. I want the Coalition to win because I believe it's best for Indian people and for all Guyanese that the PPP be forced from power. They are doing net harm to Indian people. Another 23 more years and there won't be any more Indians left in Guyana to speak of.

 

However, I will not write nancy stories and nancy analysis for the Coalition to feel nice on GNI.

 

Today was not a good day for the Coalition.

 

 

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Shaitaan,

 

I keep telling you that you are backing dead PNC horse.

 

I know it's hard for any Opposition party to oust the Government especially in a place like Guyana and with the PNC's sordid history.

 

For me, it's not about winning or losing. I want the Coalition to win because I believe it's best for Indian people and for all Guyanese that the PPP be forced from power. They are doing net harm to Indian people. Another 23 more years and there won't be any more Indians left in Guyana to speak of.

 

However, I will not write nancy stories and nancy analysis for the Coalition to feel nice on GNI.

 

Today was not a good day for the Coalition.

 

 

 

Round one. Moses and Ramjattan takes a knockout Punch and stays down.

 

Remember, The AFC promised to deliver 12 Percent of Indos to the PNC.

 

Yuji's prediction:

 

PNC + AFC = 40 + 5 Percent

 

PPP = 53 Percent Majority.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

 

However, I will not write nancy stories and nancy analysis for the Coalition to feel nice on GNI.

 

Today was not a good day for the Coalition.

 

 

A little bit of history.  In 2011 the usual AFC fanatics were screaming that they would beat the PNC and become the main opposition party.  They proceeded to ignore every region in Guyana, aside from Berbice. 

 

I told them that they were ignoring black people.  The response was the usual screams that caribj is a racist.  I was told that the youth were going to show up for the AFC.  Instead what might have been an ageing Jaganite anti Jagdeo crowd saved the AFC from humiliation.

 

Votes counted.  AFC came in with a mere 10%, seeing drastic declines in majority black areas. APNU recovered from its weakened position arising from the 2006 election.'

 

Gerhard conceded that I was right and that they took the black vote for granted, and so that vote drifted back to APNU.

 

The AFC needs tough love, because they like to delude themselves.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

 

However, I will not write nancy stories and nancy analysis for the Coalition to feel nice on GNI.

 

Today was not a good day for the Coalition.

 

 

A little bit of history.  In 2011 the usual AFC fanatics were screaming that they would beat the PNC and become the main opposition party.  They proceeded to ignore every region in Guyana, aside from Berbice. 

 

I told them that they were ignoring black people.  The response was the usual screams that caribj is a racist.  I was told that the youth were going to show up for the AFC.  Instead what might have been an ageing Jaganite anti Jagdeo crowd saved the AFC from humiliation.

 

Votes counted.  AFC came in with a mere 10%, seeing drastic declines in majority black areas. APNU recovered from its weakened position arising from the 2006 election.'

 

Gerhard conceded that I was right and that they took the black vote for granted, and so that vote drifted back to APNU.

 

The AFC needs tough love, because they like to delude themselves.

 

I've actually had extensive chats with the AFC about this problem. They are not creating a party structure where it counts, at the middle and lower levels. There should be an AFC party group in every area, well trained and highly functional with a personal relationship to voters. The National Executive and their hangers on is not a political party. It has succumbed to "Leader worship" too early in its life. Even Jagan and Burnham who enjoyed leader worship did not neglect party structures down to the village level. Today the Whim AFC Party Group should have been center stage. They weren't because they don't exist as a viable moving part of the overall AFC apparatus. What we saw today was the AFC Georgetown Clique on tour.

 

One must have a true pyramid. What they have now are some AFC "personalities" who go on the road to do occasional tours at election time. That's not how Guyana works. Maybe Israel. And for different reasons.

 

The AFC is pissing away its opportunities. It is merely a ballot line and a press release source now for the benefit of a handful of persons and some hangers on who hope to benefit. Not unlike the NY Independence Party.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

I've actually had extensive chats with the AFC about this problem. They are not creating a party structure where it counts, at the middle and lower levels..

Here is the problem. Trotman, Ramjattan and others started out with a dream in 2005.  They did well for a newbie party in 2006 getting 7% of the votes. They sat down in parliament and didn't develop the structure that you suggest that they should have. 

 

Faced with a threat of annihilation in 2011  they attached themselves to the premise of Nagamootoo's popularity within the more purist Jaganite parts of the PPP.  The ones who were upset with the direction that Jagdeo took the party.  They lost more than 25% of the votes which they obtained in 2006, but attracted 10k votes from Regions 5 and 6. 

 

Basically the founders of the AFC are tired and out of ideas, so they have now handed the AFC to the Nagamootoo faction.  These are exPPPites who haven't really grown from the Jagan days of "leader worship".  They think that "Moses" will be the biblical Moses, indeed Stormborn even fooling himself that Moses will woo blacks.

 

Stormborn fails to understand that Afro Guyanese only value the AFC in terms of its ability to woo votes from the PPP to ensure their defeat.  They aren't caught up with this Moses "magic". He lacks the charisma that Rupert Roopnarine displayed in the last election.  He hasn't helped the poorest as did Sharma.

 

Nagamootoo is seen as a decent man, but not a man with cross over appeal. If he cannot attract Indian support, as far as the PNC is concerned, they see him as having no use. 

 

If Nagamootoo doesn't perform I am forecasting right now that the next intra PNC battle will be among the anti Granger factions who Granger will punish by dropping them as MPs to allow Nagamootoo his 12 seats.

 

If Nagamootoo performs then this faction will be silent as they will know full well that without him, the PPP would be the winner.  Those dropped as MPs will play a role in the LGE as that will surely be held by 2016 should the coalition win.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

I've actually had extensive chats with the AFC about this problem. They are not creating a party structure where it counts, at the middle and lower levels..

Here is the problem. Trotman, Ramjattan and others started out with a dream in 2005.  They did well for a newbie party in 2006 getting 7% of the votes. They sat down in parliament and didn't develop the structure that you suggest that they should have. 

 

Faced with a threat of annihilation in 2011  they attached themselves to the premise of Nagamootoo's popularity within the more purist Jaganite parts of the PPP.  The ones who were upset with the direction that Jagdeo took the party.  They lost more than 25% of the votes which they obtained in 2006, but attracted 10k votes from Regions 5 and 6. 

 

Basically the founders of the AFC are tired and out of ideas, so they have now handed the AFC to the Nagamootoo faction.  These are exPPPites who haven't really grown from the Jagan days of "leader worship".  They think that "Moses" will be the biblical Moses, indeed Stormborn even fooling himself that Moses will woo blacks.

 

Stormborn fails to understand that Afro Guyanese only value the AFC in terms of its ability to woo votes from the PPP to ensure their defeat.  They aren't caught up with this Moses "magic". He lacks the charisma that Rupert Roopnarine displayed in the last election.  He hasn't helped the poorest as did Sharma.

 

Nagamootoo is seen as a decent man, but not a man with cross over appeal. If he cannot attract Indian support, as far as the PNC is concerned, they see him as having no use. 

 

If Nagamootoo doesn't perform I am forecasting right now that the next intra PNC battle will be among the anti Granger factions who Granger will punish by dropping them as MPs to allow Nagamootoo his 12 seats.

 

If Nagamootoo performs then this faction will be silent as they will know full well that without him, the PPP would be the winner.  Those dropped as MPs will play a role in the LGE as that will surely be held by 2016 should the coalition win.

 

I concur fully.

 

In addition I had actually hoped that the Jaganites who entered the AFC in 2011 and thereafter would bring one very important asset...their incredible experience of Indian community organizing at the grassroots level. However, their penchant for leader worship seems to have overcome the one real asset they brought to the table.

I was even present at one NYC AFC meeting where the Jaganites and the KFC Original Recipe were at each other's throats worse than any session of the Guyana Parliament between PPP and PNC. I actually advocated on behalf of the Jaganites in the belief that the Original Recipe crowd must bend over backwards for these Jaganites because they (the Jaganites) came equipped with the know how to organize and hold together a grassroots party. What a waste!

 

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

I've actually had extensive chats with the AFC about this problem. They are not creating a party structure where it counts, at the middle and lower levels..

Here is the problem. Trotman, Ramjattan and others started out with a dream in 2005.  They did well for a newbie party in 2006 getting 7% of the votes. They sat down in parliament and didn't develop the structure that you suggest that they should have. 

 

Faced with a threat of annihilation in 2011  they attached themselves to the premise of Nagamootoo's popularity within the more purist Jaganite parts of the PPP.  The ones who were upset with the direction that Jagdeo took the party.  They lost more than 25% of the votes which they obtained in 2006, but attracted 10k votes from Regions 5 and 6. 

 

Basically the founders of the AFC are tired and out of ideas, so they have now handed the AFC to the Nagamootoo faction.  These are exPPPites who haven't really grown from the Jagan days of "leader worship".  They think that "Moses" will be the biblical Moses, indeed Stormborn even fooling himself that Moses will woo blacks.

 

Stormborn fails to understand that Afro Guyanese only value the AFC in terms of its ability to woo votes from the PPP to ensure their defeat.  They aren't caught up with this Moses "magic". He lacks the charisma that Rupert Roopnarine displayed in the last election.  He hasn't helped the poorest as did Sharma.

 

Nagamootoo is seen as a decent man, but not a man with cross over appeal. If he cannot attract Indian support, as far as the PNC is concerned, they see him as having no use. 

 

If Nagamootoo doesn't perform I am forecasting right now that the next intra PNC battle will be among the anti Granger factions who Granger will punish by dropping them as MPs to allow Nagamootoo his 12 seats.

 

If Nagamootoo performs then this faction will be silent as they will know full well that without him, the PPP would be the winner.  Those dropped as MPs will play a role in the LGE as that will surely be held by 2016 should the coalition win.

You are truly a nut case. I spoke to no values, no policies no strategy. I said number wise the Coalition can win. I do not give a crap about grassroots building etc at this point. I only care that the PPP will lose because even if the APNU begins a thief fest, it will still serve as change from what we have. I am banking they will not and will do what they say they will do because the PPP says nothing except "give us the office"

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

I was even present at one NYC AFC meeting where the Jaganites and the KFC Original Recipe were at each other's throats worse than any session of the Guyana Parliament between PPP and PNC.

Yes I long ago spoke of tensions between the PPP refugees and the founder crowd.  I expect that many of the founder crowd, except for the leadership, have already left for APNU.  Assuredly TK and GR aren't the only ones.

 

If Nagamootoo doesn't deliver he will face the wrath of the Original Recipe, and the APNU.  Granger will assign MPs from the APNU and Original Recipe list, with a view to fully ousting the AFC ASAP.

 

So Nagamootoo better get those Indians voting for him, or at least not voting for the PPP.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
.

You are truly a nut case. I spoke to no values, no policies no strategy. I said number wise the Coaliation can win."

First of all the fact that you want the PPP to lose is irrelevant  You aren't going to vote so your views don't count.  Its what people living in Guyana decide to do which is relevant.

 

 

The 10k Nagamootoo votes are owned by no one.  All we know is that they don't like the PPP, but what we don't know is whether the prospects of a PNC gov't isn't seen as being even worse.

 

Take away those 10k votes and coalition wins FEWER votes than the PPP, if people vote the same way that they did 3 years ago.  So obviously they must all but guarantee votes from some where else.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

I was even present at one NYC AFC meeting where the Jaganites and the KFC Original Recipe were at each other's throats worse than any session of the Guyana Parliament between PPP and PNC.

Yes I long ago spoke of tensions between the PPP refugees and the founder crowd.  I expect that many of the founder crowd, except for the leadership, have already left for APNU.  Assuredly TK and GR aren't the only ones.

 

If Nagamootoo doesn't deliver he will face the wrath of the Original Recipe, and the APNU.  Granger will assign MPs from the APNU and Original Recipe list, with a view to fully ousting the AFC ASAP.

 

So Nagamootoo better get those Indians voting for him, or at least not voting for the PPP.

 

The Jaganites only know how to come into an organization and undermine it until they gain control and then exclude those not seen as part of the "in crowd."

 

Many of them initially came into the AFC as actual PPP spies with the intent to undermine and destroy the AFC for the PPP's benefit.

 

These people are unredeemed old school Communist PPPites who have all the PPP mental baggage with them. Just look at how some of them seem to think that they ought to spend good energy demonizing other anti-PPP posters for occasionally for daring to question Comrade Leader Moses et al.

 

I wouldn't trust a Jaganite with rare exception. The Jaganites never truly left the PPP, some mentally others both mentally and actually.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
The Jaganites only know how to come into an organization and undermine it until they gain control and then exclude those not seen as part of the "in crowd."

 

Many of them initially came into the AFC as actual PPP spies with the intent to undermine and destroy the AFC for the PPP's benefit.

 

These people are unredeemed old school Communist PPPites who have all the PPP mental baggage with them. Just look at how some of them seem to think that they ought to spend good energy demonizing other anti-PPP posters for occasionally for daring to question Comrade Leader Moses et al.

 

I wouldn't trust a Jaganite with rare exception. The Jaganites never truly left the PPP, some mentally others both mentally and actually.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense captivating Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense bruited about Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

And yet a few months ago you were screaming at HM-Redux when he had very negative comments about Hughes and Trotman, calling them and the other black AFC leaders selfish.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense bruited about Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

And yet a few months ago you were screaming at HM-Redux when he had very negative comments about Hughes and Trotman, calling them and the other black AFC leaders selfish.

ahmmm . . . i didn't know that Cathy/Nigel? Hughes and Raphael Trotman were PPP moles plotting to destroy the AFC

 

u see, that's why i have to ask the wise satan person these questions

 

lol

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense bruited about Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

And yet a few months ago you were screaming at HM-Redux when he had very negative comments about Hughes and Trotman, calling them and the other black AFC leaders selfish.

ahmmm . . . i didn't know that Cathy/Nigel? Hughes and Raphael Trotman were PPP moles plotting to destroy the AFC

 

u see, that's why i have to ask the wise satan person these questions

 

lol

And did any one say that the Hughes family were PPP moles?  Indeed we were pointing out tensions between this founding AFC group (original recipe) and the PPP exiles who arrived with Nagamootoo.  The fact that a few of them have now fled back to the PPP does indeed suggest that among this group were indeed PPP moles.

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
The Jaganites only know how to come into an organization and undermine it until they gain control and then exclude those not seen as part of the "in crowd."

 

Many of them initially came into the AFC as actual PPP spies with the intent to undermine and destroy the AFC for the PPP's benefit.

 

These people are unredeemed old school Communist PPPites who have all the PPP mental baggage with them. Just look at how some of them seem to think that they ought to spend good energy demonizing other anti-PPP posters for occasionally for daring to question Comrade Leader Moses et al.

 

I wouldn't trust a Jaganite with rare exception. The Jaganites never truly left the PPP, some mentally others both mentally and actually.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense captivating Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

 

Once again I can't offer any "proof" aside from my own personal knowledge which is not empirical evidence especially to you who patently distrusts me.

 

I can only say that in my interactions with the AFC and from my personal network, I can say conclusively that there were several instances of Jaganites who faux defected to AFC and would report diligently back to their allies still at Freedom House to the highest level.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense bruited about Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

And yet a few months ago you were screaming at HM-Redux when he had very negative comments about Hughes and Trotman, calling them and the other black AFC leaders selfish.

ahmmm . . . i didn't know that Cathy/Nigel? Hughes and Raphael Trotman were PPP moles plotting to destroy the AFC

 

u see, that's why i have to ask the wise satan person these questions

 

lol

And did any one say that the Hughes family were PPP moles?  Indeed we were pointing out tensions between this founding AFC group (original recipe) and the PPP exiles who arrived with Nagamootoo.  The fact that a few of them have now fled back to the PPP does indeed suggest that among this group were indeed PPP moles.

ahmmm, pot salt . . . this was the 'wisdom' from Shaitaan i was responding to:

 

"Many of them initially came into the AFC as actual PPP spies with the intent to undermine and destroy the AFC for the PPP's benefit."

 

pay attention before u butt in next time, arite?

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
.

lol . . . this reminds me of the Menshevik vs Bolshevik nonsense bruited about Freedom House in the days of yore

 

name them!

And yet a few months ago you were screaming at HM-Redux when he had very negative comments about Hughes and Trotman, calling them and the other black AFC leaders selfish.

ahmmm . . . i didn't know that Cathy/Nigel? Hughes and Raphael Trotman were PPP moles plotting to destroy the AFC

 

u see, that's why i have to ask the wise satan person these questions

 

lol

And did any one say that the Hughes family were PPP moles?  Indeed we were pointing out tensions between this founding AFC group (original recipe) and the PPP exiles who arrived with Nagamootoo.  The fact that a few of them have now fled back to the PPP does indeed suggest that among this group were indeed PPP moles.

ahmmm, pot salt . . . this was the 'wisdom' from Shaitaan i was responding to:

 

"Many of them initially came into the AFC as actual PPP spies with the intent to undermine and destroy the AFC for the PPP's benefit."

 

pay attention before u butt in next time, arite?

 

Lemme clarify. This was a reference to a few Indian Jaganites from the Cult of Moses who "joined" the AFC around 2011 or shortly thereafter. I hope you don't think I meant the Hughes or so.

 

I have two GNIers in mind actually. They know who they are. One walked out of my aunt's restaurant where the AFC NYC group normally meets in the freezing cold amidst snowfall and reported right away to Freedom House. Too bad he forgot I'm a chainsmoker who is usually found outside puffing away even in a snow storm.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by yuji22:
 

PNC + AFC = 40 + 5 Percent

 

PPP = 53 Percent Majority.

PNC 43% AFC 7% PPP 49%.  This because the black vote showed up and the Indian vote stayed home.  And APNU AFC made inroads into the Amerindian vote.

I have to keep reminding myself that a non-PPP vote is not AFC anf APNU. It's the APNU-AFC coalition. Those percentages one-on-one may change as the choice is reduced from 3 to 2.

 

Ask the man who thinks life is reduced to mathematical constructs - Stormboy.

Kari
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

I've actually had extensive chats with the AFC about this problem. They are not creating a party structure where it counts, at the middle and lower levels..

Here is the problem. Trotman, Ramjattan and others started out with a dream in 2005.  They did well for a newbie party in 2006 getting 7% of the votes. They sat down in parliament and didn't develop the structure that you suggest that they should have. 

 

Faced with a threat of annihilation in 2011  they attached themselves to the premise of Nagamootoo's popularity within the more purist Jaganite parts of the PPP.  The ones who were upset with the direction that Jagdeo took the party.  They lost more than 25% of the votes which they obtained in 2006, but attracted 10k votes from Regions 5 and 6. 

 

Basically the founders of the AFC are tired and out of ideas, so they have now handed the AFC to the Nagamootoo faction.  These are exPPPites who haven't really grown from the Jagan days of "leader worship".  They think that "Moses" will be the biblical Moses, indeed Stormborn even fooling himself that Moses will woo blacks.

 

Stormborn fails to understand that Afro Guyanese only value the AFC in terms of its ability to woo votes from the PPP to ensure their defeat.  They aren't caught up with this Moses "magic". He lacks the charisma that Rupert Roopnarine displayed in the last election.  He hasn't helped the poorest as did Sharma.

 

Nagamootoo is seen as a decent man, but not a man with cross over appeal. If he cannot attract Indian support, as far as the PNC is concerned, they see him as having no use. 

 

If Nagamootoo doesn't perform I am forecasting right now that the next intra PNC battle will be among the anti Granger factions who Granger will punish by dropping them as MPs to allow Nagamootoo his 12 seats.

 

If Nagamootoo performs then this faction will be silent as they will know full well that without him, the PPP would be the winner.  Those dropped as MPs will play a role in the LGE as that will surely be held by 2016 should the coalition win.

If you think about Caribny;s post - AFC 1st time = newbie; AFC 2nd time = Moses jolt; AFC = coalition with APNU ??? then it is saying Moses's cross-over potential is limited..........mmmmm

Kari

the Corentyne Votes

 

 in 2001 the PPP got 47000,

 

in 2006 the PPP got 42,000;

11% less than 2001

 

in 2011 the PPP got 32000.

24% less than 2006

30% less than 2001

 

 

Examine the Facts

and Forget the Goat-Shit....

In 2011 -  PPP get over 30% Less Votes than in 2001

Ignore De Goat Shit...

Da cant help them on May 11th...

 

Lets Count Real Numbers .....

& Real Votes....

 

Why Yuh Scratching?

The only reason to Scratch & Dig

is if yuh Retarded like Kwame and got Crab Louse.

 

FM
Originally Posted by Jalil:

the Corentyne Votes

 

 in 2001 the PPP got 47000,

 

in 2006 the PPP got 42,000;

11% less than 2001

 

in 2011 the PPP got 32000.

24% less than 2006

30% less than 2001

 

 

Examine the Facts

and Forget the Goat-Shit....

In 2011 -  PPP get over 30% Less Votes than in 2001

Ignore De Goat Shit...

Da cant help them on May 11th...

 

Lets Count Real Numbers .....

& Real Votes....

 

Why Yuh Scratching?

The only reason to Scratch & Dig

is if yuh Retarded like Kwame and got Crab Louse.

 

the Corentyne Votes

 

 AND in 2015 the PPP will get 27,000

FM

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