The Guyana dilemma

From some PPP supporters:

  • “PPP were corrupted but there was progress”
  • “PNC say they are not corrupted but there is no progress” 

How will Gy ever move forward with either of the two main parties when there is such a huge divide across the political spectrum. 

My take is we need to revolutionize our thinking beyond the current representation we have since neither one seems to have the best interest of the people in their agendas.

As long as we are stuck with the PPP and PNC in their current state Guyana ded; one party with the same set of crooks heading it and the other party being basically a geriatric ward with the same failures from times past.

 From Einstein ”Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

Original Post

The PPP was never as corrupt as the PNC/AFC made it out.  It was all smoking mirrors.  Envy caused the PNC/AFC to play the "corruption" card, and it worked with enough weak minds and bitter souls to put them over the edge.

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff.  PNC don't tief not they leave nothing.  Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury!  Now, how did they do that while stealing all the way to the bank?

The PPP had problems, but it was not in the magnitude as touted by the PNC/AFC.

I notice that Politik did not mention the AFC. Is he building a case for the "existence" of the AFC, did he forget them because they are irrelevant politically at this point, or he did not hear that they are starting to take already.

ba$eman posted:

The PPP was never as corrupt as the PNC/AFC made it out.  It was all smoking mirrors.  Envy caused the PNC/AFC to play the "corruption" card, and it worked with enough weak minds and bitter souls to put them over the edge.

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff.  PNC don't tief not they leave nothing.  Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury!  Now, how did they do that while stealing all the way to the bank?

The PPP had problems, but it was not in the magnitude as touted by the PNC/AFC.

Where you pull this out from?? if this is true all debts will be paid off and there will be a fresh start.

ba$eman posted:

The PPP was never as corrupt as the PNC/AFC made it out.  It was all smoking mirrors.  Envy caused the PNC/AFC to play the "corruption" card, and it worked with enough weak minds and bitter souls to put them over the edge.

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff.  PNC don't tief not they leave nothing.  Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury!  Now, how did they do that while stealing all the way to the bank?

The PPP had problems, but it was not in the magnitude as touted by the PNC/AFC.

You lie like a skunk and if stanly ming said that he is nuts. The PPP at no time ever claim they had that much in reserve. They declared they had 800 million in reserve in 2014 and then 200 in 2014 and said t he rapid decline is that some were "lost" in the gold value decline.  The present Regime said the treasury was empty and that what remained was spread out in private accounts which the consolidated. Statistically that is nowhere 1 billion US except in your silly head.

politikalamity posted:

From some PPP supporters:

  • “PPP were corrupted but there was progress”
  • “PNC say they are not corrupted but there is no progress” 

How will Gy ever move forward with either of the two main parties when there is such a huge divide across the political spectrum. 

My take is we need to revolutionize our thinking beyond the current representation we have since neither one seems to have the best interest of the people in their agendas.

As long as we are stuck with the PPP and PNC in their current state Guyana ded; one party with the same set of crooks heading it and the other party being basically a geriatric ward with the same failures from times past.

 From Einstein ”Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

What are these Revolutionary ideas you think is our magical elixir?

Zed posted:

I notice that Politik did not mention the AFC. Is he building a case for the "existence" of the AFC, did he forget them because they are irrelevant politically at this point, or he did not hear that they are starting to take already.

Claiming the AFC is irrelevant  is distilled nonsense. More it is a balm for a wounded PPP believer since the though is like revenge for those who disassembled the PPP power structure. The AFC is powerful in that it can like it did the last time, bring down the government. If they do, they would have had good reason again.

In any event, "Political whatever" is suggesting systemic change. He is predicating rational structures in thought and action that can remake the social contract where the two party becomes irrelevant but where binding principles backed by people power matters.

I dare say he is right but for predicates his thoughts on the wrong foundation. Guyanese in general are avaricious, prejudicial, mean spirited and generalized ideological racists so you cannot start with the people. You have to move them to new thinking.

ba$eman posted:

 

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff. 

So why then did the day after the elections did Guysuco go crawling to the govt to beg them for a big bailout so that they could make payroll, and pay suppliers?  Even the Gold Board was broke when the coalition gov't took over.

Seriously, praising the PPP, for no reason than its a "coolie people party" which only seeks to "consolidate the East Indian support base", shows exactly the racist that indeed you are.

Why don't you show the integrity that David Hinds is. A proud black man, but he refuses to stay silent when APNU does wrong!

Django posted:
ba$eman posted:

The PPP was never as corrupt as the PNC/AFC made it out.  It was all smoking mirrors.  Envy caused the PNC/AFC to play the "corruption" card, and it worked with enough weak minds and bitter souls to put them over the edge.

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff.  PNC don't tief not they leave nothing.  Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury!  Now, how did they do that while stealing all the way to the bank?

The PPP had problems, but it was not in the magnitude as touted by the PNC/AFC.

Where you pull this out from?? if this is true all debts will be paid off and there will be a fresh start.

It does not work like that.  You are clueless!

Danyael posted:
ba$eman posted:

The PPP was never as corrupt as the PNC/AFC made it out.  It was all smoking mirrors.  Envy caused the PNC/AFC to play the "corruption" card, and it worked with enough weak minds and bitter souls to put them over the edge.

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff.  PNC don't tief not they leave nothing.  Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury!  Now, how did they do that while stealing all the way to the bank?

The PPP had problems, but it was not in the magnitude as touted by the PNC/AFC.

You lie like a skunk and if stanly ming said that he is nuts. The PPP at no time ever claim they had that much in reserve. They declared they had 800 million in reserve in 2014 and then 200 in 2014 and said t he rapid decline is that some were "lost" in the gold value decline.  The present Regime said the treasury was empty and that what remained was spread out in private accounts which the consolidated. Statistically that is nowhere 1 billion US except in your silly head.

Hey, the PPP left USD 1.5 Bil in reserves!

ba$eman posted:
Django posted:
ba$eman posted:

Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury! 

Where you pull this out from?? if this is true all debts will be paid off and there will be a fresh start.

It does not work like that.  You are clueless!

Ming is firmly in bed with the current regime, and he is a very smart man.  So he is NOT going to say nonsense like the PPP left Guyana a highly wealthy nation.

So you LIE!!!

ba$eman posted:
Django posted:
ba$eman posted:

The PPP was never as corrupt as the PNC/AFC made it out.  It was all smoking mirrors.  Envy caused the PNC/AFC to play the "corruption" card, and it worked with enough weak minds and bitter souls to put them over the edge.

As I said, they say PPP tief nuff, but they leff nuff.  PNC don't tief not they leave nothing.  Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury!  Now, how did they do that while stealing all the way to the bank?

The PPP had problems, but it was not in the magnitude as touted by the PNC/AFC.

Where you pull this out from?? if this is true all debts will be paid off and there will be a fresh start.

It does not work like that.  You are clueless!

Paying off the government debt Paying off the debt is largely a political choice. Who bears the cost of paying off the debt? Is it government workers through lower pay and lower benefits? Is it individuals who see a reduction in government services or entitlements, either directly through cuts or indirectly through slower growth in benefits? Is it taxpayers who pay higher taxes and fees? Are the additional taxes born by the rich or the poor or both? Is it bondholders who get paid back in inflated currency or don’t get paid back at all? Government debt as a share of GDP can be reduced or eliminated in a number of ways. 1. Run surpluses and pay off the debt as happened in the US in the 1830s, or reduce the debt/ GDP ratio by running surpluses as occurred around 2000 under Bill Clinton. Here the cost of the debt is imposed directly on taxpayers with no loss to fixed income investors.

https://www.globalfinancialdat.../government_debt.pdf

 

Refresh your memory a little.

Bibi Haniffa posted:
caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:
Django posted:
ba$eman posted:

Stanley Ming recently admitted the PPP left about USD 1.5 bil in the treasury! 

Where you pull this out from?? if this is true all debts will be paid off and there will be a fresh start.

It does not work like that.  You are clueless!

Ming is firmly in bed with the current regime, and he is a very smart man.  So he is NOT going to say nonsense like the PPP left Guyana a highly wealthy nation.

So you LIE!!!

Ming is an uneducated dunce.  He has no post secondary education and made up a stupid pie in the sky economic plan called Guyana 2030 which makes absolutely no sense.  He actually said the PPP left 1.7 billion US dollars in the Treasury.  Google "Stanley Ming 2030" and take a look.  It's on YouTube!

 

Guyana has an ethnic dilemma involving the two major groups who share strong mutual suspicion and animosity towards each other in the political domain. During the campaign leading up to last May's general elections I had expressed optimism in GNI Political that voters would overlook skin color and hair texture and cast their ballots for a government of national unity that APNU+AFC presidential candidate David Granger had promised. However, the elections results disappointed me in the sense that the overwhelming majority of Indians voted for the PPP, giving it more votes than in the 2011 elections. Clearly, the 12 percent Indian votes that the AFC had promised APNU did not materialize.

Since last May PPP supporters have increased their suspicion and antagonism and bitterness exponentially, as their comments in GNI Political Forum, Facebook and blogs show.

I have stated repeatedly here that Guyana would get real progress only when its citizens stop voting race and cast their ballots on issues and programs. As of now, I don't think we will reach that transformation in this generation and the next. Guyana will be marking time for decades to come. Guyana remains a house divided against itself.

Danyael posted:
Zed posted:

I notice that Politik did not mention the AFC. Is he building a case for the "existence" of the AFC, did he forget them because they are irrelevant politically at this point, or he did not hear that they are starting to take already.

Claiming the AFC is irrelevant  is distilled nonsense. More it is a balm for a wounded PPP believer since the though is like revenge for those who disassembled the PPP power structure. The AFC is powerful in that it can like it did the last time, bring down the government. If they do, they would have had good reason again.

In any event, "Political whatever" is suggesting systemic change. He is predicating rational structures in thought and action that can remake the social contract where the two party becomes irrelevant but where binding principles backed by people power matters.

I dare say he is right but for predicates his thoughts on the wrong foundation. Guyanese in general are avaricious, prejudicial, mean spirited and generalized ideological racists so you cannot start with the people. You have to move them to new thinking.

A lot of drivel about the AFC being able to bring down any government in the future. Lots of people who voted for them are cursing the day they did!  Look what is happening now, let them tell granger that they are dissatisfied with the non-adherence to the Cummingsburg accord. 

What was systemic about what  POlitik suggested? Having another political party? Is that what he suggested. What social contract that they think they have with the people? The AFC coalition partner said no apologies for 50 percent raise, they lied about increase old age benefits, the AFC keeping their mouth shut about the Cummingsburg accord which was to give real power to Moses as prime minister, about the govt. saying that rice was not government business after they messed up the industry in the short time they were there. 

If You are correct about Guyanese in general as you described, (I think that you are wrong)  and you do not start with the people, with what do you start? Suddenly people are divorced from what happens to them, they become objectified. Who or what will be the god? This systemic change will fall from heaven like manna?  Burnham tried divorcing change from the will of the people. What did we get in  28 years. Lots of poverty, broken systems, broken physical infra-structure, degraded social infra-structure, etc. These things you spout sound nice until they are examined.

caribny posted:

Ming is firmly in bed with the current regime, and he is a very smart man.  So he is NOT going to say nonsense like the PPP left Guyana a highly wealthy nation.

 

Why? Because it will go against their misleading narrative?

Clearly there was a lot left given that although business has virtually come to a standstill, all ministers got big salary increases and an extravagant 50th anniversary celebration is under way.

Gilbakka posted:

Guyana has an ethnic dilemma involving the two major groups who share strong mutual suspicion and animosity towards each other in the political domain. During the campaign leading up to last May's general elections I had expressed optimism in GNI Political that voters would overlook skin color and hair texture and cast their ballots for a government of national unity that APNU+AFC presidential candidate David Granger had promised. However, the elections results disappointed me in the sense that the overwhelming majority of Indians voted for the PPP, giving it more votes than in the 2011 elections. Clearly, the 12 percent Indian votes that the AFC had promised APNU did not materialize.

Since last May PPP supporters have increased their suspicion and antagonism and bitterness exponentially, as their comments in GNI Political Forum, Facebook and blogs show.

I have stated repeatedly here that Guyana would get real progress only when its citizens stop voting race and cast their ballots on issues and programs. As of now, I don't think we will reach that transformation in this generation and the next. Guyana will be marking time for decades to come. Guyana remains a house divided against itself.

Two things wrong with your observations above Gilly.

Firstly there was never going to be any National Unity Government and that was quickly proven after the election. So if you believed in Granger's National Unity promise, clearly you were fooled. Even Moses don't seem to believe in Granger's promises now.

Secondly, it is interesting that you feel the need to ridicule Indians who chose not to drink the Kool Aid like you did. Any honest person would have to admitted that there are many more Indians that have voted across the race line than blacks have so if you needed a group to ridicule you should have picked on blacks since they vote race much more than Indians.

It is more reasonable for Indians to support the PPP since the PPP is the only government that was democratic and successful. Blacks vote for the PNC who so far has done nothing productive or beneficial for Guyana.

Sorry to say Gilly but we are not interested in your Indian hating bai.

ksazma posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Guyana has an ethnic dilemma involving the two major groups who share strong mutual suspicion and animosity towards each other in the political domain. During the campaign leading up to last May's general elections I had expressed optimism in GNI Political that voters would overlook skin color and hair texture and cast their ballots for a government of national unity that APNU+AFC presidential candidate David Granger had promised. However, the elections results disappointed me in the sense that the overwhelming majority of Indians voted for the PPP, giving it more votes than in the 2011 elections. Clearly, the 12 percent Indian votes that the AFC had promised APNU did not materialize.

Since last May PPP supporters have increased their suspicion and antagonism and bitterness exponentially, as their comments in GNI Political Forum, Facebook and blogs show.

I have stated repeatedly here that Guyana would get real progress only when its citizens stop voting race and cast their ballots on issues and programs. As of now, I don't think we will reach that transformation in this generation and the next. Guyana will be marking time for decades to come. Guyana remains a house divided against itself.

Two things wrong with your observations above Gilly.

Firstly there was never going to be any National Unity Government and that was quickly proven after the election. So if you believed in Granger's National Unity promise, clearly you were fooled. Even Moses don't seem to believe in Granger's promises now.

Secondly, it is interesting that you feel the need to ridicule Indians who chose not to drink the Kool Aid like you did. Any honest person would have to admitted that there are many more Indians that have voted across the race line than blacks have so if you needed a group to ridicule you should have picked on blacks since they vote race much more than Indians.

It is more reasonable for Indians to support the PPP since the PPP is the only government that was democratic and successful. Blacks vote for the PNC who so far has done nothing productive or beneficial for Guyana.

Sorry to say Gilly but we are not interested in your Indian hating bai.

This is most candid and rational response to the issue of people voting race in Guyana.  Learn something Gilbakka. Ksazma's head firmly set on his shoulders.

caribny posted:
Danyael posted:
. The AFC is powerful in that it can like it did the last time, bring down the government.

And achieve what?   The AFC isn't going to survive that stunt, so how much power do they really have.

Power is about means to move what is otherwise unmovable. They can bring down the government for whatever reason they can justify ie Harmon being a bully and Granger not responding to check him or refusal to rein in Banshanlin etc. Also they only need seven thousand votes to hold the balance of power again and I am sure they can garner that. They can do that in region 8 with no worry. Note the above is hypothetical to explain what I mean by them having power. The slant that they are toothless is far from true and both the APNU and the PPP have that hanging over their head.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
ksazma posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Guyana has an ethnic dilemma involving the two major groups who share strong mutual suspicion and animosity towards each other in the political domain. During the campaign leading up to last May's general elections I had expressed optimism in GNI Political that voters would overlook skin color and hair texture and cast their ballots for a government of national unity that APNU+AFC presidential candidate David Granger had promised. However, the elections results disappointed me in the sense that the overwhelming majority of Indians voted for the PPP, giving it more votes than in the 2011 elections. Clearly, the 12 percent Indian votes that the AFC had promised APNU did not materialize.

Since last May PPP supporters have increased their suspicion and antagonism and bitterness exponentially, as their comments in GNI Political Forum, Facebook and blogs show.

I have stated repeatedly here that Guyana would get real progress only when its citizens stop voting race and cast their ballots on issues and programs. As of now, I don't think we will reach that transformation in this generation and the next. Guyana will be marking time for decades to come. Guyana remains a house divided against itself.

Two things wrong with your observations above Gilly.

Firstly there was never going to be any National Unity Government and that was quickly proven after the election. So if you believed in Granger's National Unity promise, clearly you were fooled. Even Moses don't seem to believe in Granger's promises now.

Secondly, it is interesting that you feel the need to ridicule Indians who chose not to drink the Kool Aid like you did. Any honest person would have to admitted that there are many more Indians that have voted across the race line than blacks have so if you needed a group to ridicule you should have picked on blacks since they vote race much more than Indians.

It is more reasonable for Indians to support the PPP since the PPP is the only government that was democratic and successful. Blacks vote for the PNC who so far has done nothing productive or beneficial for Guyana.

Sorry to say Gilly but we are not interested in your Indian hating bai.

This is most candid and rational response to the issue of people voting race in Guyana.  Learn something Gilbakka. Ksazma's head firmly set on his shoulders.

Billy, Kaz habitually says he comes to GNI Political to "shoot breeze." Looks more like Kaz is here to shoot Gilly. I stated a fact about how Indians voted last May. If Kaz interprets that as "ridicule" that is his problem. 

Fact is, there was a difference of only 4,506 votes between the PPP and APNU+AFC. With such a small margin of victory for the coalition, the PPP felt that votes were stolen from its strongholds and demanded a recount, failing which it took GECOM to court. 

Now, pick sense from nonsense. If the PPP believes that most of those 4,506 votes were stolen from its strongholds which factually are Indians, it means that relatively few Indians voted for the coalition, not so? That amounts to what I wrote above. How does "ridicule" come in the picture? 

I won't waste time with Kaz. He ain't shooting cool breeze.

ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:
The present Regime said the treasury was empty .....

How is this possible Stormy?

Why is that not possible? We have a billion dollar plus debt so the treasury is in real accounting terms is in the red to begin with.

That we have some cash on hand salvaged from the various slush accounts of the PPP amounting to some 20 to  50 million ( after adding up what is in the public domain) means the PPP shrunk it from 800 million to that in less than two years.They never ever claimed to have 1.2 billion on hand as claimed by basedrum their last declaration was 200 million

Note, government can always spend money because they have taxes coming in and income streams from various sources. Guyana has always been on the dole for much of its money so  the charity of other governments has not stopped. I can see some 100 million off hand coming in that way this past year.

Danyael posted:
ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:
The present Regime said the treasury was empty .....

How is this possible Stormy?

Why is that not possible? We have a billion dollar plus debt so the treasury is in real accounting terms is in the red to begin with.

 

How did they know that the treasury was empty even before they assessed the debt versus reserves?

ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:
ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:
The present Regime said the treasury was empty .....

How is this possible Stormy?

Why is that not possible? We have a billion dollar plus debt so the treasury is in real accounting terms is in the red to begin with.

 

How did they know that the treasury was empty even before they assessed the debt versus reserves?

If you check the consolidated fund and find it empty you are out of cash....that simple.

Zed posted:
Danyael posted:
Zed posted:

I notice that Politik did not mention the AFC. Is he building a case for the "existence" of the AFC, did he forget them because they are irrelevant politically at this point, or he did not hear that they are starting to take already.

Claiming the AFC is irrelevant  is distilled nonsense. More it is a balm for a wounded PPP believer since the though is like revenge for those who disassembled the PPP power structure. The AFC is powerful in that it can like it did the last time, bring down the government. If they do, they would have had good reason again.

In any event, "Political whatever" is suggesting systemic change. He is predicating rational structures in thought and action that can remake the social contract where the two party becomes irrelevant but where binding principles backed by people power matters.

I dare say he is right but for predicates his thoughts on the wrong foundation. Guyanese in general are avaricious, prejudicial, mean spirited and generalized ideological racists so you cannot start with the people. You have to move them to new thinking.

A lot of drivel about the AFC being able to bring down any government in the future. Lots of people who voted for them are cursing the day they did!  Look what is happening now, let them tell granger that they are dissatisfied with the non-adherence to the Cummingsburg accord. 

What was systemic about what  POlitik suggested? Having another political party? Is that what he suggested. What social contract that they think they have with the people? The AFC coalition partner said no apologies for 50 percent raise, they lied about increase old age benefits, the AFC keeping their mouth shut about the Cummingsburg accord which was to give real power to Moses as prime minister, about the govt. saying that rice was not government business after they messed up the industry in the short time they were there. 

If You are correct about Guyanese in general as you described, (I think that you are wrong)  and you do not start with the people, with what do you start? Suddenly people are divorced from what happens to them, they become objectified. Who or what will be the god? This systemic change will fall from heaven like manna?  Burnham tried divorcing change from the will of the people. What did we get in  28 years. Lots of poverty, broken systems, broken physical infra-structure, degraded social infra-structure, etc. These things you spout sound nice until they are examined.

The reality that they can bring down the government is real and present. That lots of people regret voting for them is also inconsequential since they can garner enough votes to hold  one seat and that is all they need.

I leave political ( whatever) to explain what he means but I know the academic studies of states likes ours and the prescriptions to change the system and hold parties like ours depending on ethnic votes in check. I am sure he is talking along those lines.

Guyanese in general are nasty and brutish with their long journey into ethnic hate. That cannot be changed by appealing to their better natures since that has to be structured via external agencies so they can learn to think differently.

Look at this board and the nasty creatures that populate it and whose very lives owe a debt to black men and women  who died fighting racism yet these morons remain intractable racists. In real life none of these bastards can speak as they do here. At least they have the good sense to know they are racist scumbags in their private lives and it is not a rational way of being.

Being incredulous that change can be systemic is also ignorance manifest. We are the way we are because a system condones it.  I leave you to think how the system can be changed by institutional fences against our worse selves. And I never said people do not matter. I said you need to educate them to change their established creed. They do not seem able to do it by themselves.

ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:

If you check the consolidated fund and find it empty you are out of cash....that simple.

How did they know the Consolidated Fund was empty?

Is the Consolidated Fund and the Treasury the same?

You are asking silly questions now. It is a bank account.

Danyael posted:
ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:

If you check the consolidated fund and find it empty you are out of cash....that simple.

How did they know the Consolidated Fund was empty?

Is the Consolidated Fund and the Treasury the same?

You are asking silly questions now. It is a bank account.

Actually Danyael, these questions are not silly at all.

ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:
ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:

If you check the consolidated fund and find it empty you are out of cash....that simple.

How did they know the Consolidated Fund was empty?

Is the Consolidated Fund and the Treasury the same?

You are asking silly questions now. It is a bank account.

Actually Danyael, these questions are not silly at all.

It is a constitutionally prescribed account held in Bank of Guyana.  They said it was broke because they paid for gold at one price and the market fell out so they lost 600 million dollars. I did not think it was possible then and still do not. The fund was overdrawn when the APNU entered office and the bank of guyana would not lie.

The overdrafts  should be off set by what is owed by the gold board but the accounting there is shabby  so what is there is still not publicly known. One can estimate it, if their statement that 600 million was spent in buying gold then we should have  that much in gold in 2014 price paid to miners. I do not know what it was so I cannot calculate the amount.

Danyael posted:

It is a constitutionally prescribed account held in Bank of Guyana.  They said it was broke because they paid for gold at one price and the market fell out so they lost 600 million dollars. I did not think it was possible then and still do not. The fund was overdrawn when the APNU entered office and the bank of guyana would not lie.

The overdrafts  should be off set by what is owed by the gold board but the accounting there is shabby  so what is there is still not publicly known. One can estimate it, if their statement that 600 million was spent in buying gold then we should have  that much in gold in 2014 price paid to miners. I do not know what it was so I cannot calculate the amount.

So what you are saying that at best it is a statement based on assumptions. When the Government first made this statement, did they have the obligation to base it on facts or was it good enough for them to just make assumptions?

ksazma posted:
Danyael posted:

It is a constitutionally prescribed account held in Bank of Guyana.  They said it was broke because they paid for gold at one price and the market fell out so they lost 600 million dollars. I did not think it was possible then and still do not. The fund was overdrawn when the APNU entered office and the bank of guyana would not lie.

The overdrafts  should be off set by what is owed by the gold board but the accounting there is shabby  so what is there is still not publicly known. One can estimate it, if their statement that 600 million was spent in buying gold then we should have  that much in gold in 2014 price paid to miners. I do not know what it was so I cannot calculate the amount.

So what you are saying that at best it is a statement based on assumptions. When the Government first made this statement, did they have the obligation to base it on facts or was it good enough for them to just make assumptions?

If you are overdrawn you are broke simple as that.

Danyael posted:
Zed posted:
Danyael posted:
Zed posted:

I notice that Politik did not mention the AFC. Is he building a case for the "existence" of the AFC, did he forget them because they are irrelevant politically at this point, or he did not hear that they are starting to take already.

Claiming the AFC is irrelevant  is distilled nonsense. More it is a balm for a wounded PPP believer since the though is like revenge for those who disassembled the PPP power structure. The AFC is powerful in that it can like it did the last time, bring down the government. If they do, they would have had good reason again.

In any event, "Political whatever" is suggesting systemic change. He is predicating rational structures in thought and action that can remake the social contract where the two party becomes irrelevant but where binding principles backed by people power matters.

I dare say he is right but for predicates his thoughts on the wrong foundation. Guyanese in general are avaricious, prejudicial, mean spirited and generalized ideological racists so you cannot start with the people. You have to move them to new thinking.

A lot of drivel about the AFC being able to bring down any government in the future. Lots of people who voted for them are cursing the day they did!  Look what is happening now, let them tell granger that they are dissatisfied with the non-adherence to the Cummingsburg accord. 

What was systemic about what  POlitik suggested? Having another political party? Is that what he suggested. What social contract that they think they have with the people? The AFC coalition partner said no apologies for 50 percent raise, they lied about increase old age benefits, the AFC keeping their mouth shut about the Cummingsburg accord which was to give real power to Moses as prime minister, about the govt. saying that rice was not government business after they messed up the industry in the short time they were there. 

If You are correct about Guyanese in general as you described, (I think that you are wrong)  and you do not start with the people, with what do you start? Suddenly people are divorced from what happens to them, they become objectified. Who or what will be the god? This systemic change will fall from heaven like manna?  Burnham tried divorcing change from the will of the people. What did we get in  28 years. Lots of poverty, broken systems, broken physical infra-structure, degraded social infra-structure, etc. These things you spout sound nice until they are examined.

The reality that they can bring down the government is real and present. That lots of people regret voting for them is also inconsequential since they can garner enough votes to hold  one seat and that is all they need.

I leave political ( whatever) to explain what he means but I know the academic studies of states likes ours and the prescriptions to change the system and hold parties like ours depending on ethnic votes in check. I am sure he is talking along those lines.

Guyanese in general are nasty and brutish with their long journey into ethnic hate. That cannot be changed by appealing to their better natures since that has to be structured via external agencies so they can learn to think differently.

Look at this board and the nasty creatures that populate it and whose very lives owe a debt to black men and women  who died fighting racism yet these morons remain intractable racists. In real life none of these bastards can speak as they do here. At least they have the good sense to know they are racist scumbags in their private lives and it is not a rational way of being.

Being incredulous that change can be systemic is also ignorance manifest. We are the way we are because a system condones it.  I leave you to think how the system can be changed by institutional fences against our worse selves. And I never said people do not matter. I said you need to educate them to change their established creed. They do not seem able to do it by themselves.

Danyael and others, Is this not possible? Before the next elections, say next year, , granger finds out that the AFC decides that it will walk away from the coalition, or he has had enough of the AFC,,or he feels that APNU can successfully return to power without the AFC. granger calls the keeper of the list and have him remove all the AFC members from the list. The speaker and the clerk of the national  assembly are informed. End of AFC in parliament. 

I Find Your narrative about people on this site  interesting. Also your statement that many of them owe their lives to many black men and women who fought racism. They might want to take it up with you

As far as I know, people of both major races died fighting racism in Guyana. Many of both major races died because of racism. 

I am not incredulous about systemic change. What I have problems with is this unidimensional argument presented, the broad statements about Guyanese people,  and the unworkable suggestion to how to achieve systematic change. Also, it is people who set up systems, and allow them to exist. Without people changing, systems will remain the way they are.

As a political force, the AFC has prostituted itself and lied to its supporters to allay their fears about uncurbed PNC power. If it had competed alone in the LGE, they would have found out that their support has evaporated. That is why they had to stay easy, keep quiet prior to the elections about the number of representatives they get on the councils and as pap to their supporters complained after the fact.

Danyael posted:
Zed posted:
Danyael posted:
Zed posted:

I notice that Politik did not mention the AFC. Is he building a case for the "existence" of the AFC, did he forget them because they are irrelevant politically at this point, or he did not hear that they are starting to take already.

Claiming the AFC is irrelevant  is distilled nonsense. More it is a balm for a wounded PPP believer since the though is like revenge for those who disassembled the PPP power structure. The AFC is powerful in that it can like it did the last time, bring down the government. If they do, they would have had good reason again.

In any event, "Political whatever" is suggesting systemic change. He is predicating rational structures in thought and action that can remake the social contract where the two party becomes irrelevant but where binding principles backed by people power matters.

I dare say he is right but for predicates his thoughts on the wrong foundation. Guyanese in general are avaricious, prejudicial, mean spirited and generalized ideological racists so you cannot start with the people. You have to move them to new thinking.

A lot of drivel about the AFC being able to bring down any government in the future. Lots of people who voted for them are cursing the day they did!  Look what is happening now, let them tell granger that they are dissatisfied with the non-adherence to the Cummingsburg accord. 

What was systemic about what  POlitik suggested? Having another political party? Is that what he suggested. What social contract that they think they have with the people? The AFC coalition partner said no apologies for 50 percent raise, they lied about increase old age benefits, the AFC keeping their mouth shut about the Cummingsburg accord which was to give real power to Moses as prime minister, about the govt. saying that rice was not government business after they messed up the industry in the short time they were there. 

If You are correct about Guyanese in general as you described, (I think that you are wrong)  and you do not start with the people, with what do you start? Suddenly people are divorced from what happens to them, they become objectified. Who or what will be the god? This systemic change will fall from heaven like manna?  Burnham tried divorcing change from the will of the people. What did we get in  28 years. Lots of poverty, broken systems, broken physical infra-structure, degraded social infra-structure, etc. These things you spout sound nice until they are examined.

The reality that they can bring down the government is real and present. That lots of people regret voting for them is also inconsequential since they can garner enough votes to hold  one seat and that is all they need.

I leave political ( whatever) to explain what he means but I know the academic studies of states likes ours and the prescriptions to change the system and hold parties like ours depending on ethnic votes in check. I am sure he is talking along those lines.

Guyanese in general are nasty and brutish with their long journey into ethnic hate. That cannot be changed by appealing to their better natures since that has to be structured via external agencies so they can learn to think differently.

Look at this board and the nasty creatures that populate it and whose very lives owe a debt to black men and women  who died fighting racism yet these morons remain intractable racists. In real life none of these bastards can speak as they do here. At least they have the good sense to know they are racist scumbags in their private lives and it is not a rational way of being.

Being incredulous that change can be systemic is also ignorance manifest. We are the way we are because a system condones it.  I leave you to think how the system can be changed by institutional fences against our worse selves. And I never said people do not matter. I said you need to educate them to change their established creed. They do not seem able to do it by themselves.

"Being incredulous that change can be systemic is also ignorance manifest. We are the way we are because a system condones it.  I leave you to think how the system can be changed by institutional fences against our worse selves." 

A Wha This above, can you break am down... me na undastand. 

I am not going to argue with the hypothetical that Granger wants to commit political suicide. The AFC will henceforth stymie him in office and to say off hand that the AFC is spent is useless pontificating.

I also do not know that they have lied to any supporter. They entered the coalition as a unit and that is what they must abide by. To this date I see very few issues of dysfunction that predicates the APNU cannot move the economy in time. There are no special grease that the PPP cooks with that provides them subtle benefits to govern not accessible to others. The gripe I here on this board against the administration is mostly racist bile and sour grapes at having lost the election.

When I spoke of people having struggled and died for benefits we accrue I am speaking specifically of the people on this board, Cobra, Nehru, Basedrum Skeldonape who contemptuously discounts black life as less than. They are an example of entrenched attitudes to race.

I am happy the AFC did not contest independently at the local level. I wished the people had the good sense to seek office independent of party but that is another story.

I am also not making a random generalization of Guyanese. It is an empirical fact that we sue for power on ethnic identified parties.  It is the seat of all the arguments as to the persistence of nepotism over merit.

 

 

ksazma posted:
caribny posted:

Ming is firmly in bed with the current regime, and he is a very smart man.  So he is NOT going to say nonsense like the PPP left Guyana a highly wealthy nation.

 

Why? Because it will go against their misleading narrative?

Clearly there was a lot left given that although business has virtually come to a standstill, all ministers got big salary increases and an extravagant 50th anniversary celebration is under way.

Salary increases don't amount to US$1.5 billion, and neither does the 50th celebrations.

I hope that you aren't included the G/town clean up in the estimate of the cleanup. 

ksazma posted:
. Blacks vote for the PNC who so far has done nothing productive or beneficial for Guyana.

 

The PPP is a black hating party, which campaigns by demonizing blacks as being violent, lazy, criminals and useless.

How do we know this? Well the Chronicle, when it was under the control of the PPP wrote a whole article on this.  The PPP, as the entity which controlled the Chronicle, was asked to apologize.

The PPP said nothing.........but you think that it is rational for blacks to vote for them.

Will you suggest that Mexicans and Muslims vote for Trump?

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