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FM
Former Member

 

 

That quote by Edward R. Murrow is quite telling! It actually paints a vivid picture of Guyana. There is no question that over the past decade Guyana has enjoyed a fair amount of prosperity. But more prosperity has seen more crooked PPP politicians. And with more crooked politicans there have been more corruption.

 

Of course not all PPP politicans are crooked and corrupt. But if you want to know who the crooked and corrupt PPP politicans are just take a ride through Pradoville2. That's where the den of thieves reside.

 

THIS BRINGS ME TO THE SUBJECT OF OIL!

 

If oil were to be discovered in Guyana in commercial quantities, there would be greater prosperity. But who will profit from the greater prosperity ? The sheep(Guyanese people) or the wolves(the politicians) ?

 

"A NATION OF SHEEP SOON BEGETS A GOVERNMENT OF WOLVES"

 

That is sooooo very true.

 

What says you good people ?

 

Rev

 

 

 

 

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by seignet:

My guess is, some devious indo, once a henchman for the PNC in the marginalization of his fellow indians will be honoured by the PPP and given exclusive rights to the market.

 


Would Guyana be better off if oil were not discovered in commercial quantities ?

 

OIL = MORE PROSPERITY = MORE CROOKED POLITICIANS PROFITING = MORE CORRUPTION

 

Would any of the oil profits flow down to the sheep(the Guyanese people) ?

 

Rev

FM
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer:

Abie ah wait fuh datt aile bai, denn we goa see who sheep and who wolf.  Meantime mi goa try sell mi coconut aile, croton aile, caster aile and snake aile.


Guyanese will have to wait forever--an eternity--before oil ever shows up.

 

The sheep(guyanese people) will benefit more from that coconut oil you're currently selling than from the oil(black gold) CGX and others are hoping and wishing for.

 

Dont be disappointed if in a few months you find out Guyana doesn't have oil in commercial quantities.

 

Rev

FM
Originally Posted by Rev Al:
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer:

Abie ah wait fuh datt aile bai, denn we goa see who sheep and who wolf.  Meantime mi goa try sell mi coconut aile, croton aile, caster aile and snake aile.


Guyanese will have to wait forever--an eternity--before oil ever shows up.

 

The sheep(guyanese people) will benefit more from that coconut oil you're currently selling than from the oil(black gold) CGX and others are hoping and wishing for.

 

Dont be disappointed if in a few months you find out Guyana doesn't have oil in commercial quantities.

 

Rev

Bai, me nah wait fuh nobady find nutin, dah goa belang to dem big bais anyway.  Me mekking nuff nuff paisa and livin good wid wah mi do now.

FM
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer:
Bai, me nah wait fuh nobady find nutin, dah goa belang to dem big bais anyway.  Me mekking nuff nuff paisa and livin good wid wah mi do now.


 

Sledgie Bhai:

 

Our parents gave us the gift of life---after that it's all up to us to give ourselves the gift of living well. The Rev is pleased to know you are living well. Stay healthy. Peace.

 

Rev

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Rev Bhai

 

Like you changed sides ?

 


Yuji:

 

The Rev has never been nor will ever be a blind supporter of the PPP. Ramotar is a good man but there are lots of dishonest, thieving scoundrels in the PPP.

 

Read this yuji---and tell me what you think:

 

 

 

NICIL’s refusal to hand over its $$$ is criminal – former Auditor General

May 6, 2012 | By | Filed Under News 

 

 

β€œI have no recollection that Parliament has authorised any expenditure from the NICIL accounts neither am I aware that NICIL, as a state-owned company incorporated under the Companies Act of 1991, has the authority to intercept funds that truly belong to the Consolidated Fund and to use such funds for purposes extraneous to the defraying of certain expenses referred to above.”

-GGMC, GFC, Lotto also obligated

The pressure is continuing to mount on Government to release details on the billions of dollars

Former Auditor General, Anand Goolsaran

it is holding in a special company without any Parliamentary oversight.
It is estimated that $50B, representing proceeds of the privatization sales of state companies and properties, is in the coffers of National Industrial and Commercial Investments Limited (NICIL), a government-owned company.
The refusal by Government to hand over the monies is a violation of the Constitution, says former Auditor General, Anand Goolsaran.


The at-least $50B would represent a quarter of the $192B National Budget that government recently tabled and the opposition parties, already up-in-arms over a number of other issues, have been joining the growing calls to make the monies available for scrutiny and possible use by the taxpayers.
According to Goolsaran, who left Guyana fearing for his safety following threats a few years ago, he is on public records saying that all public revenues should be placed in the Consolidated Fund and that no public expenditure should be incurred without parliamentary approval.
The accountant made the disclosure in a released statement to this newspaper yesterday.


β€œThis is a fundamental principle relating to public finance since it ensures transparency and proper accountability for public funds. Any lesser arrangement is not considered proper accountability for taxpayers’ funds and can result in all kinds of allegations of impropriety in the use of such funds, notwithstanding the very best of intentions.”
Alarmed


Goolsaran said that he is alarmed to learn that some $50B may be sitting in the NICIL accounts; that the accounts of NICIL have not been audited and reported on since 2004; and of the arguments put forward by the Minister of Finance, Dr. Ashni Singh, the Head of the Presidential Secretariat, Dr. Roger Luncheon.


Recently, Dr Singh insisted that NICIL is a company that does not have to fall under Parliamentary oversight.


Dr. Luncheon had also said that he is unaware of any regulations which compel NICIL to hand over its monies to the Consolidated Fund.
The opposition parties have accused Government of deliberately keeping the monies from Parliament so that there could be little perusal on how it is spent.


NICIL has been responsible in a number of questionable transactions including the sale of the Sanata Complex to Queen’s Atlantic, which is owned by Dr. Ranjisinghi β€˜Bobby’ Ramroop, who is said to be a close friend of former President Bharrat Jagdeo, and who reportedly benefitted from a number of lucrative concessions. It was also involved in the highly questionable sale of several parcels of lands, including to current government Ministers.
β€œAs I understand it, the bulk of the funds collected by NICIL relates to proceeds from the sale of state assets. Are these proceeds not public revenues which should find their way as speedily as possible into the Consolidated Fund, as required by Article 216 of the Constitution?”
The Consolidated Fund is where all Government revenues are placed.
Goolsaran offered to audit the books of NICIL going back to when that company was started.


Violation
β€œ I do not have any information as to how much NICIL has collected over the years and what expenditures were incurred to date and would have been happy to review the audited accounts going back to the date when NICIL was established.


β€œI am nevertheless of the view that any expenditure by NICIL, other than to defray certain expenses, such as those relating to the sale of the related state assets, would be a violation of Article 217 (3) of the Constitution.”
According to Goolsaran, that article made it clear that β€œNo money shall be withdrawn from any public fund other than the Consolidated Fund unless the issue of those monies has been authorised by or under an Act of Parliament.”
β€œI have no recollection that Parliament has authorised any expenditure from the NICIL accounts neither am I aware that NICIL, as a state-owned company incorporated under the Companies Act of 1991, has the authority to intercept funds that truly belong to the Consolidated Fund and to use such funds for purposes extraneous to the defraying of certain expenses referred to above.”
Recently, Government said that it was using millions of dollars of NICIL’s funds to finance the startup of a Marriott-branded hotel in Kingston, a project that is still shrouded in mystery as the owners and details of financing are unknown or unclear.


Goolsaran said that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and if there is any inconsistency between any law and the Constitution, the latter prevails, except in situations where the Constitution permits this.
β€œI am unaware that Parliament has sanctioned the establishment of any fund (extra-budgetary or otherwise) under the operations of NICIL.”
Touching on other state-owned entities retaining revenues that are considered public, the former Auditor General urged for this issue to also be addressed.


β€œIf such entities are collecting monies on behalf of the State, then the monies collected net of related expenses should be paid over promptly to the Consolidated Fund. An example is the Guyana Revenue Authority which pays over gross to the Consolidated Fund its takings for each day but has a separate budget to meet its expenses.”


He cited examples of the Guyana Geology and Mines Commission and the Guyana Forestry Commission which retain monies.


β€œHowever, mechanisms should be put in place for periodic transfers to the Consolidated Fund of the accumulated surpluses or part thereof. After all, they are state-owned entities, and to the extent that they record accumulated losses, there is recourse to the Consolidated Fund to bail them out. It follows therefore that accumulated surpluses should find their way to the Consolidated Fund.”

 
FM
So buy a Donkey or Camel, go live in a Sand Pit and have a great time.Originally Posted by Rev Al:
Originally Posted by seignet:

My guess is, some devious indo, once a henchman for the PNC in the marginalization of his fellow indians will be honoured by the PPP and given exclusive rights to the market.

 


Would Guyana be better off if oil were not discovered in commercial quantities ?

 

OIL = MORE PROSPERITY = MORE CROOKED POLITICIANS PROFITING = MORE CORRUPTION

 

Would any of the oil profits flow down to the sheep(the Guyanese people) ?

 

Rev

 

Nehru

Rev Bhai,

 

Here is a post from this forum:

 

 

 
Funds held by NICIL not required to be placed into Consolidated Fund. This is the AFC’s ploy to deflect from its Budget cuts.
Post New Topic
Member
 
3 minutes ago
 

MAY 7, 2012 PEEPING TOM 

 

 

No doubt with the intention of diverting attention from its unpardonable cuts to the 2012 Budget, the Alliance for Change (AFC) in full theatrical mood is attempting to shift the blame for its anti-development agenda towards the government.

 

Having been the prime mover behind slicing 21 billion dollars off the national Budget, the All for Cuts party is now accusing the government of cutting fifty billion dollars from Budget by not incorporating the funds held by the National Industrial and Commercial Inc. Limited (NICIL). This is the AFC’s latest ploy to deflect attention from its incomprehensible actions.

 

Some of the newspapers, including Kaieteur News, seem only too willing to further the perception that somehow the government is sitting on fifty billion dollars which is hidden away. In so doing they are neglecting their duty to check on the facts so as to ensure that their readership is not misled.

 

Whether fifty billion dollars is involved is another issue altogether. Given its recent record, caution should be exercised before readily accepting the numbers that the AFC throws out for public consumption. It is yet to be determined just how the AFC arrived at this figure of fifty billion dollars. Perhaps this was part of the advice that it has been receiving lately.

 

However, even if it can be established that NICIL did over time cumulatively receive in excess of fifty billion dollars, it does mean that this sum is available for use in the Budget or that it is being hidden or is part of a slush fund.NICIL is a body corporate. It was formed as a holding company for the shares which government has or had in a number of entities. It is also a parent company for a number of entities in which the government has a stake.

 

It is also vested with the buying and selling of government properties and it is empowered to make investments.

 

NICIL is 100% owned by the government of Guyana and was formed not by the PPPC administration. It was incorporated under the Corporations Act, an Act of Parliament, in July 1990 during the PNC regime.

 

It is controlled by the government. This is not unusual for an entity that deals with the divestment of government properties. Under the PNC regime, responsibility for privatization was assigned to the Public Corporations Secretariat (PCS) which in turn reported to an economic subcommittee of Cabinet, with the Minister of Planning being responsible for overseeing the work of the PCS.

 

The actual approval of recommendations for privatization was done by a standing committee of ministers of the government. The process of privatization as therefore always controlled by politicians and directly by the Cabinet. The present arrangements therefore in which there is a Privatization Unit and NICIL is not substantively different from what existed under the PNC.

 

The PNC after it opted to pursue economic liberalization, found itself with a huge financing gap in its Budget. As such, it was pushed faster into divestment.

 

There has always been a controversy as to whether the proceeds of privatization should be held in the Consolidated Fund. The then Auditor General had noted in the 1992 Auditor General’s Report that the proceeds from divestment were NOT paid into the Consolidated Fund but were instead kept in a separate account.

 

These were not the only proceeds that were so held in special accounts. The proceeds from the sale of gold were kept in a special account located outside of Guyana and controlled by Office of the President.

 

Long before that there was a lotteries fund. The monies here were also not transferred to the Consolidated Fund but were paid into a Government Lotteries Account. At the end of each year, the credit from that account was not passed into a Development Fund. So there is a host of precedents that debunks the idea that there is something illegal about holding money in NICIL.

 

Despite this, there still remained calls for the proceeds held by NICIL to pass through the Consolidated Fund. Even before the debate on the 2012 Budget, there were such calls. However, no legal authority has yet been produced to justify these funds being paid into the Consolidated Fund.

 

One former Auditor General has ventured to suggest that the legal opinion that the government received on the issue was flawed but no persuasive alternative legal argument has been offered.

 

If one existed, or if a credible case existed to legally justify the movement of these proceeds to the Consolidated Fund, approaches would have been already made to the courts for a ruling to this effect.

 

Instead what we have had are a set of opinions, many of which have the taint of politics, about what should happen. But no one is risking their reputation by asking the courts to rule that the holding of funds within NICIL, outside of the Consolidated Fund is unlawful.

 

There is of course a clearly obvious reason why the funds cannot be moved to the Consolidated Fund. The accounts held by NICIL are no ordinary accounts. NICIL is a body corporate. As such it cannot simply move its revenues to the Consolidated Fund since it has expenses and it has liabilities. It is the parent company for a number of existing public enterprises including the Guyana National Shipping Corporation, the Guyana National Printers Limited and the Guyana Oil Company.

 

It has obligations to these entities; it may have to absorb losses, it has outstanding pension issues with bauxite workers that are not yet settled; and it is facing at least one major legal challenge to one of its privatization deals, which if it goes against it, could lead to an award reaching hundreds of millions.

 

The fact that NICIL may have, over a period of time, collected a large amount of revenues from the sale of government properties does not therefore mean that NICIL is simply sitting on this money. Nor is NICIL a slush fund. It is a body corporate established under the Corporation Act and is governed by that Act.

 

For this reason also NICIL is not in breach of the Constitution of Guyana by not paying its holdings into the Consolidated Fund.

 

Article 216 of the Constitution of Guyana provides that all funds received by Guyana should be paid into the Consolidated Fund, except for revenues or other monies that are payable or held, by or under an Act of parliament, into some other fund established for that specific purpose.

 

NICIL was formed under the Corporation Act which is an act of parliament and it has an account which is held for the specific purpose of holding the proceeds of government interests as well as for the proceeds of divestment. This account is therefore not in contravention of the Constitution of Guyana.

 

NICIL should be using the funds that it has to make money for the government so that it can pay dividends into the Consolidated Fund.

 

What the AFC needs to be concerned about is not the legality of holding these funds but whether the funds held in NICIL have been properly accounted for. If there is indeed a problem with the accounts of NICIL not being audited, then it is for the Auditor General, who is statutorily required to audit these accounts, to explain why this has not been done.

 

The Auditor General has promised to pay some interest to NICIL, the holding company that is responsible for the proceeds of privatization funds. When the Auditor General’s Report is made public, the people of Guyana will be in a better position to determine whether the AFC has again been misled, this time about the amount of proceeds that are held by NICIL.

 

Its fifty billion dollar figure may turn out to be far less

FM

We should not allow the snake oil salespeople from AFC to spread lies. 

 

Anand should now go and drink some more snake oil.

 

"NICIL is 100% owned by the government of Guyana and was formed not by the PPPC administration. It was incorporated under the Corporations Act, an Act of Parliament, in July 1990 during the PNC regime."

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by yuji22:

We should not allow the snake oil salespeople from AFC to spread lies. 

 

Anand should now go and drink some more snake oil.

 

"NICIL is 100% owned by the government of Guyana and was formed not by the PPPC administration. It was incorporated under the Corporations Act, an Act of Parliament, in July 1990 during the PNC regime."

PNC is playing the AFC like a fiddle. Dumb Moses and RUMjattan are always being led down the garden path by big brother PNC.

FM
Rev Bhai
 
Here is more on another snake oil claim by AFC:
 
 
 
After all the AFC/APNU noise AG probe vindicates Rohee on $90M
Post New Topic
Member
 
2 hours ago
 

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline....-for-police-adds-up/

There appears to be vindication on the part of the Ministry of Home Affairs as it relates to that entity’s accounting for the $90M allocated to the Guyana Police Force for the November 28, 2011 elections.
According to the budgetary explanation the money was to meet additional expenditure for the General and Regional Elections for feeding rural constables working on Election Day. The money was also to feed the ranks of the Guyana Police Force and to meet expenditures associated β€œwith the intensification of patrols in and around the city.”
The furor had erupted after at least one divisional Commander David Ramnarine complained that he had not received sufficient funds for the ranks under his command. The Home Affairs Ministry later released details of a cheque for $320,000 made to Ramnarine.
This sparked a confrontation with the Guyana Police Force and Ministry of Home Affairs, both of which claimed no wrongdoing.
Auditor General Deodat Sharma has since undertaken an in depth probe of the $90M and while the investigation has not been completed the initial reports point to no wrongdoing.
A source close to the investigation said that so far everything checks out.
The probe consists mainly of a verification exercise and corroborating the paper trails such as receipts and vouchers for expenditures. There is nothing to shout about.”
Apart from maintaining that the report will be submitted soon, the Auditor General has declined any further comments on the matter.
He had told this publication that the findings will determine when the results will be made public.
Sharma explained that depending on what the probe uncovers the report will be made immediately or will just form a part of the annual report which he would normally undertake.
The Auditor General says that he is in possession of the relevant documents and will look into each aspect of the allegations being leveled against the officials.
The major opposition parties, namely Alliance for Change and A Partnership for National Unity, had demanded a probe into the $90M that Government allocated to the police for meals and other expenses for the November 28 elections, but which some Divisional Commanders say never reached them.

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Rev Bhai
 
Here is more on another snake oil claim by AFC:
 
 
 
After all the AFC/APNU noise AG probe vindicates Rohee on $90M
Post New Topic
Member
 
2 hours ago
 

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline....-for-police-adds-up/

There appears to be vindication on the part of the Ministry of Home Affairs as it relates to that entity’s accounting for the $90M allocated to the Guyana Police Force for the November 28, 2011 elections.
According to the budgetary explanation the money was to meet additional expenditure for the General and Regional Elections for feeding rural constables working on Election Day. The money was also to feed the ranks of the Guyana Police Force and to meet expenditures associated β€œwith the intensification of patrols in and around the city.”
The furor had erupted after at least one divisional Commander David Ramnarine complained that he had not received sufficient funds for the ranks under his command. The Home Affairs Ministry later released details of a cheque for $320,000 made to Ramnarine.
This sparked a confrontation with the Guyana Police Force and Ministry of Home Affairs, both of which claimed no wrongdoing.
Auditor General Deodat Sharma has since undertaken an in depth probe of the $90M and while the investigation has not been completed the initial reports point to no wrongdoing.
A source close to the investigation said that so far everything checks out.
The probe consists mainly of a verification exercise and corroborating the paper trails such as receipts and vouchers for expenditures. There is nothing to shout about.”
Apart from maintaining that the report will be submitted soon, the Auditor General has declined any further comments on the matter.
He had told this publication that the findings will determine when the results will be made public.
Sharma explained that depending on what the probe uncovers the report will be made immediately or will just form a part of the annual report which he would normally undertake.
The Auditor General says that he is in possession of the relevant documents and will look into each aspect of the allegations being leveled against the officials.
The major opposition parties, namely Alliance for Change and A Partnership for National Unity, had demanded a probe into the $90M that Government allocated to the police for meals and other expenses for the November 28 elections, but which some Divisional Commanders say never reached them.

That AFC snake oil supporter received a cheque for $ 320,000. He should be fired. He made a stink about not receiving any money.

 

Fellow Guyanese, we better save our country from AFC and their big brother PNC before it is destroyed.

 

Where are those AFC supporters who were behind Ramnarine ?

FM

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