Remembering Bholanauth Parmanand and Jagan Ramessar - July 16, 1973

We must not forget all the people who were murdered by the PNC. 

 

Rodney was an important man but he should not be the only person remembered but we  should remember that all lives matter. For me East Indian and dougla lives are of utmost importance in my life. But to do the right thing all lives matter.

Gilbakka posted:

Let's not bash Chief. Here is an important fact: During the 1973 election campaign, Dr Cheddi Jagan told his supporters at PPP public meetings that they must "secure the ballot boxes bodily" on July 16. They must ensure that the ballot boxes were counted right there on the spot at the polling stations.

Dr Jagan knew full well that he was encouraging his supporters to engage in an unlawful act. The Representation of the People Act and the Guyana Elections Commission regulations ruled out the counting of ballots at polling places. Through police information from PPP meetings, Forbes Burnham got feedback on what Dr Jagan had urged his supporters to do. As a lawyer and politician with power, Burnham used state[army-police] resources to take the ballot boxes to central counting places in accordance with the laws his government had passed in parliament. And he decided to use force to thwart anyone who held on to the ballot boxes at polling stations, or anyone who attempted to block the transfer of those boxes.

Having regard to the above, Chief has a point though I would have worded it differently. By advising his supporters to flout the electoral laws of the time, Dr Jagan bore some moral responsibility for the disastrous consequences.

Cheddi Jagan never told his supporters that the ballot boxes must be counted at the polling stations.  What Cheddi Jagan told his supporters is, they must stay with the ballot boxes during transportation from polling station to the police station or location where the ballots were going to be counted.

Parmanand and Jagessar were prevented from accompanying the ballot boxes, and when they insisted on not letting the boxes out of their sight, they were killed.

I was too young to vote but was a polling station observer for PYO on the east coast. We were briefed to accompany the ballot box and keep it in sight at all times but in all honestly we were never told to guard it with our lives.

I accompany the box on a truck that made several pickups at other stations but also pickup from some private homes that was not polling station. 

I remember one of the home was a indian dude known to us that ran back inside and hide when he see us. Eventually at Bygeval School at Mahaica we were force off the truck at gun point fix with baynets. I guess if we had resisted we might have suffer the same faith..... 

Bibi Haniffa posted:
sachin_05 posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

You should have resisted.........................

I would have if I was retarded like you....

You betta stay quiet before me send you fuh marry Jagdeo ex.

You can bet yuh bottom dollar she won't get lock out the bedroom after 2 weeks...

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Cheddi Jagan never told his supporters that the ballot boxes must be counted at the polling stations.  What Cheddi Jagan told his supporters is, they must stay with the ballot boxes during transportation from polling station to the police station or location where the ballots were going to be counted.

Miss Haniffa, as a 21-year-old PPP activist I participated in the 1973 election campaign. I chaired one public meeting on the East Bank Demerara and spoke at two others in West Demerara along with Dr Cheddi Jagan. I saw and heard close-up Dr Jagan telling the gathering at Canal #2 Polder, WBD: "Comrades, you must secure the ballot boxes bodily. Don't let them carry the boxes away. In 1968 there were bundles of ballots wrapped with rubber band in a box. That was done behind the people's backs. They get ketch because they forget to take out the rubber band from the PNC ballots they put in. You must not let that happen this time. You must insist they count your votes on the spot immediately after the last man vote." 

Luckily, West Demerara people were smart and they did not follow that advice and no fatal shooting occurred as in Berbice. Not to say that there were no confrontations with the security forces but they were minor compared to the Corentyne. 

 

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Never in the history of Guyana, then and now, are votes counted at polling stations.

Granted, but the PPP is on record consistently demanding that votes be counted at the places of poll. That is, when the PPP was in opposition before 1992. Burnham did not cave in to the PPP demands. Hoyte caved in to some, after President Carter took up the PPP's concerns with him. 

How can you count votes at a polling station?  It is not logistically possible.  Ballot boxes are handed over to the police station and to returning officers who take it from there.  There is a procedure to be followed before and after the votes are counted.

Cheddi was a stupid man, but I doubt if he was that stupid.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

How can you count votes at a polling station?  It is not logistically possible.  Ballot boxes are handed over to the police station and to returning officers who take it from there.  There is a procedure to be followed before and after the votes are counted.

Cheddi was a stupid man, but I doubt if he was that stupid.

Miss Haniffa, President Hoyte had indeed said that it would be a "logistical nightmare" to count the votes at polling stations. But, you know, in last year's general elections the votes were counted at polling stations. Presiding officers had to sign Statements of Poll certifying the number of votes each political party got at every polling station. One copy was mounted on the wall of each polling station. The ballots were then transported to GECOM with accompanying Statements of Poll. Even before that, APNU+AFC polling agents took cell phone photos of each Statement of Poll and sent them to the coalition's command centre. That whole process, as you know, resulted in a delay on the part of GECOM to release the official final results. Because the main contesting parties disagreed on some Statements of Poll.

Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

And that is exactly how the election was rigged!!!!

Duh is wuh yuh Rabb Street comrades seh. 

An wah you seh bai? Elekshan nah rig?

Every time PPP lass them seh it rigged.

Bai same ting me seh. You ah play dumb. PPP never lost an election. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Let in ring in your ears and hum in your head

skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

And that is exactly how the election was rigged!!!!

Duh is wuh yuh Rabb Street comrades seh. 

An wah you seh bai? Elekshan nah rig?

Every time PPP lass them seh it rigged.

Bai same ting me seh. You ah play dumb. PPP never lost an election. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Let in ring in your ears and hum in your head

Banna you better check praperly,you loved Burnham Consititution eh bhai.

Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

And that is exactly how the election was rigged!!!!

Duh is wuh yuh Rabb Street comrades seh. 

An wah you seh bai? Elekshan nah rig?

Every time PPP lass them seh it rigged.

Bai same ting me seh. You ah play dumb. PPP never lost an election. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Let in ring in your ears and hum in your head

Banna you better check praperly,you loved Burnham Consititution eh bhai.

FYI.. Burnman constitution is like blow blow to me. I left Guyana in 1970 at the beginning of coolie punishment. Gone back numerous times and never had to think about Burnman constitution. I got my family out of Guyana as son as possible. My parents were green card holders and they turned them in for 10 year multiple entry visas. So I went back regularly.

Chief posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Let's not bash Chief. Here is an important fact: During the 1973 election campaign, Dr Cheddi Jagan told his supporters at PPP public meetings that they must "secure the ballot boxes bodily" on July 16. They must ensure that the ballot boxes were counted right there on the spot at the polling stations.

Dr Jagan knew full well that he was encouraging his supporters to engage in an unlawful act. The Representation of the People Act and the Guyana Elections Commission regulations ruled out the counting of ballots at polling places. Through police information from PPP meetings, Forbes Burnham got feedback on what Dr Jagan had urged his supporters to do. As a lawyer and politician with power, Burnham used state[army-police] resources to take the ballot boxes to central counting places in accordance with the laws his government had passed in parliament. And he decided to use force to thwart anyone who held on to the ballot boxes at polling stations, or anyone who attempted to block the transfer of those boxes.

Having regard to the above, Chief has a point though I would have worded it differently. By advising his supporters to flout the electoral laws of the time, Dr Jagan bore some moral responsibility for the disastrous consequences.

Oh my God!!!!!!

Thank you Gilly!

Gilbaka/Chief, you two old lying bastards.  Gilly, have you no shame, I mean, fine you hate today's PPP, but you have no shame, no morals, no class to say that.  You bloody know that the PPP and other members of political parties were merely accompanying the ballot boxes to their destination to be counted.  That was the process then.  These people were fulfilling that function as defined by the electoral rules.

Gilly, you are a shameless lying bastard and classless, I have lost all respect for you!

Chief is an ISIS loving fullah mongrel who hates anything non-fullah!!  So he can go to hell with them!

sachin_05 posted:

I was too young to vote but was a polling station observer for PYO on the east coast. We were briefed to accompany the ballot box and keep it in sight at all times but in all honestly we were never told to guard it with our lives.

I accompany the box on a truck that made several pickups at other stations but also pickup from some private homes that was not polling station. 

I remember one of the home was a indian dude known to us that ran back inside and hide when he see us. Eventually at Bygeval School at Mahaica we were force off the truck at gun point fix with baynets. I guess if we had resisted we might have suffer the same faith..... 

And you have no shame cuddling up with the same criminals.  Mind you, the current president was one of the senior GDF officers at that time.

Banna, hatred make you all lost whatever little morals you ever had!

Shame on you bastards!!

skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

And that is exactly how the election was rigged!!!!

Duh is wuh yuh Rabb Street comrades seh. 

An wah you seh bai? Elekshan nah rig?

Every time PPP lass them seh it rigged.

Bai same ting me seh. You ah play dumb. PPP never lost an election. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Let in ring in your ears and hum in your head

Banna you better check praperly,you loved Burnham Consititution eh bhai.

FYI.. Burnman constitution is like blow blow to me. I left Guyana in 1970 at the beginning of coolie punishment. Gone back numerous times and never had to think about Burnman constitution. I got my family out of Guyana as son as possible. My parents were green card holders and they turned them in for 10 year multiple entry visas. So I went back regularly.

Why would someone turn in a green card for a visa. It doesn't make any sense.

Prashad posted:
skeldon_man posted:

FYI.. Burnman constitution is like blow blow to me. I left Guyana in 1970 at the beginning of coolie punishment. Gone back numerous times and never had to think about Burnman constitution. I got my family out of Guyana as son as possible. My parents were green card holders and they turned them in for 10 year multiple entry visas. So I went back regularly.

Why would someone turn in a green card for a visa. It doesn't make any sense.

Why would someone turn in a green card for a visa.

You think they did it because they wanted he fo go back regularly? aiaiai

It doesn't make any sense.

Well it is SkeldonBannaski you talkin here yeh

In defense of Skelly I know people who gave up their green card for visa.

Main reason is you have to spend a certain amount of time in the States or you risk losing your green card. Quite a few older people and businessmen opted for visa instead. 

ba$eman posted:

Such is the legacy of the current president of Guyana!! This [seemingly benign] grandfather was part and parcel of the murderous PNC regime and to date has never taken ownership, instead prefers to talk of Sun Chapman!!

People who suffered at the hand of this racist regime should not sell themselves for a few trinkets and glass beads!

Some of these people belong in Den Haag!!

Why are these two stupid drunk men charging armed soldiers a matter of more consideration than some 30 people including women and children? These fellows were drunk and indeed they were murdered but attributing greater altruistic inclination to their action is purely gratuitous. Yes they tried to protect ballot boxes but note no other person went except these two daft fellows

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Shame on you for calling 15 year old Jagan Ramessar a drunk man.  You are shallow, barefaced, outrageous, and a flat out confounded liar.  You know nothing about the history of the PPP party.   Your words are just like you - useless and barren!!

Why shame on me? Guyanese are drunks by the time they are fifteen. The WHO just commented on that insisting 17 year olds are imbibing almost 3 liters of alcohol per month.

I grew up in the area and know many of the families in the villages and I dare say some are kin. That is the story I heard. It does not mean they were not murdered I was almost 13 when it happened and in my last year of high school. What I say is a fact.

You can try to make political gold with it but you are starting out with hay. These were not altruistic political stalwarts defending the good and true virtues of democracy but a couple of misguided fellows embolden by alcohol to walk up on machine gun wielding soldiers ordered to remove the ballot boxes

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Until you can prove to me that these two men were drunk, everything you have said in this thread is - NULL & VOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prove what to you? You do not interest me. I care little for your conversion to my side. I would not want to inconvenience the hell hounds by stealing their milk source.  I am writing for others with more salutary dispositions and interested in history over political fluff.

Nehru posted:

Piwari master calling others drunk. Is he the male Malania????

I do not drink. It is a preference. Too many drunks around doing damage to themselves was enough of a deterrence.  You however, did not take those lessons to heart.

English is my first language and I have a gift for it. Malania was done a bad turn by her speech writers who were obviously not professionals at their task. They would or should have known this would happen since software on the internet exists that can easily discover cribbed texts.  I on the other hand, am fluid with what I write and it is uniquely me. You can test that if you so feel inclined.

ba$eman posted:
Gilly, you are a shameless lying bastard and classless, I have lost all respect for you!

No problem. I participated in the PPP election campaign in 1973 and I know what I'm talking about. I can see it's an inconvenient truth to you, but that's not my problem. I'm going to make one more point in addition to all my comments in this thread, as follows:

After 1973 Burnham called another general election in 1980. The rules did not change. Same overseas voting. Same proxy voting. No counting of ballots at place of poll. Etc. Knowing that the elections would be rigged under those conditions, the WPA boycotted the election and urged the PPP to do the same. Jagan ignored the WPA and contested. On paper, in press releases, he still demanded that votes be counted at polling places. However, at public meetings he studiously refrained from telling supporters to secure ballot boxes or accompany them to Georgetown for centralized counting. Why? Because Jagan did not want more ballot box martyrs. Plain and simple.

Likewise, after 1980 Hoyte called general elections in 1985 under the same Burnhamite rules. Again, the WPA boycotted knowing that rigging would take place. And again, Jagan contested. Gilbakka was a candidate and spoke at a number of public meetings, along with Jagan at some of them. He studiously avoided telling the people to secure ballot boxes. Why? He remembered the 1973 fiasco in the Corentyne. Plain and simple. As it turned out, with Robert Corbin as his campaign manager, Hoyte was a bigger rigger than Burnham. He gave the PPP only 8 seats. But unlike 1973 when the PPP boycotted parliament even though it had got more seats from Burnham, in 1985 Jagan meekly accepted the election results and took up his 8 seats in parliament. I say no more.

ba$eman posted:
Chief posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Let's not bash Chief. Here is an important fact: During the 1973 election campaign, Dr Cheddi Jagan told his supporters at PPP public meetings that they must "secure the ballot boxes bodily" on July 16. They must ensure that the ballot boxes were counted right there on the spot at the polling stations.

Dr Jagan knew full well that he was encouraging his supporters to engage in an unlawful act. The Representation of the People Act and the Guyana Elections Commission regulations ruled out the counting of ballots at polling places. Through police information from PPP meetings, Forbes Burnham got feedback on what Dr Jagan had urged his supporters to do. As a lawyer and politician with power, Burnham used state[army-police] resources to take the ballot boxes to central counting places in accordance with the laws his government had passed in parliament. And he decided to use force to thwart anyone who held on to the ballot boxes at polling stations, or anyone who attempted to block the transfer of those boxes.

Having regard to the above, Chief has a point though I would have worded it differently. By advising his supporters to flout the electoral laws of the time, Dr Jagan bore some moral responsibility for the disastrous consequences.

Oh my God!!!!!!

Thank you Gilly!

Gilbaka/Chief, you two old lying bastards.  Gilly, have you no shame, I mean, fine you hate today's PPP, but you have no shame, no morals, no class to say that.  You bloody know that the PPP and other members of political parties were merely accompanying the ballot boxes to their destination to be counted.  That was the process then.  These people were fulfilling that function as defined by the electoral rules.

Gilly, you are a shameless lying bastard and classless, I have lost all respect for you!

Chief is an ISIS loving fullah mongrel who hates anything non-fullah!!  So he can go to hell with them!

Both of them are 'pushing their luck' with their responses on this thread.  Shows how low some PNC'ites can stoop for Granger!!

ba$eman posted:
sachin_05 posted:

I was too young to vote but was a polling station observer for PYO on the east coast. We were briefed to accompany the ballot box and keep it in sight at all times but in all honestly we were never told to guard it with our lives.

I accompany the box on a truck that made several pickups at other stations but also pickup from some private homes that was not polling station. 

I remember one of the home was a indian dude known to us that ran back inside and hide when he see us. Eventually at Bygeval School at Mahaica we were force off the truck at gun point fix with baynets. I guess if we had resisted we might have suffer the same faith..... 

And you have no shame cuddling up with the same criminals.  Mind you, the current president was one of the senior GDF officers at that time.

Banna, hatred make you all lost whatever little morals you ever had!

Shame on you bastards!!

I don't kiss ass, even in the great US of A I don't  vote politicians in I vote them out when they misbehave and think they are above the people that put them there. Race doesn't  matter to me - you f'ed up you are gone....PPP got what they deserved...sorry I have no apology...

Although I got to admit the measure between these two evils Hillary and Trump is about equal but I hate Tump more....

Gilbakka posted:
ba$eman posted:
Gilly, you are a shameless lying bastard and classless, I have lost all respect for you!

No problem. I participated in the PPP election campaign in 1973 and I know what I'm talking about. I can see it's an inconvenient truth to you, but that's not my problem. I'm going to make one more point in addition to all my comments in this thread, as follows:

After 1973 Burnham called another general election in 1980. The rules did not change. Same overseas voting. Same proxy voting. No counting of ballots at place of poll. Etc. Knowing that the elections would be rigged under those conditions, the WPA boycotted the election and urged the PPP to do the same. Jagan ignored the WPA and contested. On paper, in press releases, he still demanded that votes be counted at polling places. However, at public meetings he studiously refrained from telling supporters to secure ballot boxes or accompany them to Georgetown for centralized counting. Why? Because Jagan did not want more ballot box martyrs. Plain and simple.

Likewise, after 1980 Hoyte called general elections in 1985 under the same Burnhamite rules. Again, the WPA boycotted knowing that rigging would take place. And again, Jagan contested. Gilbakka was a candidate and spoke at a number of public meetings, along with Jagan at some of them. He studiously avoided telling the people to secure ballot boxes. Why? He remembered the 1973 fiasco in the Corentyne. Plain and simple. As it turned out, with Robert Corbin as his campaign manager, Hoyte was a bigger rigger than Burnham. He gave the PPP only 8 seats. But unlike 1973 when the PPP boycotted parliament even though it had got more seats from Burnham, in 1985 Jagan meekly accepted the election results and took up his 8 seats in parliament. I say no more.

You are to total and shameless liar.  I witnessed a PPP Rep almost having his brain blown out in 1973 when he tried to accompany the ballot box.  And in a Military region where Granger was in charge.

Gilly, stop throwing in a lot of mud to muddy the facts.  You know very well these two folks were carrying out their agreed-upon mandate. Stop shoveling a whole heap of happy horse sh1t on the issue under discussion!

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