Relgion and Ego

What gives one person the right to arbitrarily dictate hellfire and damnation for the "crime" of belonging to a different belief system? Is it ego that compels one person, because of their "superior" belief, to condemn another because of an "inferior" belief - my god is better than your god, making you less?

When someone jumps and shouts out their epiphany to the world, should the world care because this person is now important? Is that what all this religious sermonizing is about? Broadcasting your importance for supposedly having a communion with god?

Any thoughts?

Original Post

My opinion is that from the beginning of time humans have sought to connect with something much more superior than themselves and the greater that thing the more real it is regarded. I don't see anything wrong with that even if it only achieve the effects of good habits and behavior. But then comes the challenge. Since we don't all think alike, our idea of that superior being will also differ. Now comes the turf war where everything gets sacrificed including the very essential motive for seeking a superior being in the first time.

Another element is the potential profits of separating oneself from the pack. We see this by the many denominations in Christian churches as well as different mosques or mandirs. Folks don't come together at Eid times or Phagwah melas because they fear they would have to split the purse.

antabanta posted:

What gives one person the right to arbitrarily dictate hellfire and damnation for the "crime" of belonging to a different belief system? Is it ego that compels one person, because of their "superior" belief, to condemn another because of an "inferior" belief - my god is better than your god, making you less?

When someone jumps and shouts out their epiphany to the world, should the world care because this person is now important? Is that what all this religious sermonizing is about? Broadcasting your importance for supposedly having a communion with god?

Any thoughts?

If we had the answer that, much of the wars would have been prevented. A few years ago I was speaking with my father, I can't remember what exactly about, but he mentioned something about a belief in Judaism. I was much younger then and hot blooded so I asked if he was saying that he believed in Judaism. His answer was, "not at all but let me ask you a question". "You're a Muslim right?", to which I answered indignantly ,"YES". He pointed a man at the corner and said, "let's say that man isn't a muslim, do you believe that because he doesn't believe what you believe he has no god?". I had no response. That question answered volumes. True Religion comes from within. I believe that what we know as religion was created by man to control man and to also impose their will. How much of what was seen as visions and being touched by god can now be explained by modern day medicine? The Honourable Robert Nester Marley was asked if he believed in the bible. He smiled and asked which bible, the King James's bible which has been translated over the years? He added, "meh shore when dem translate dat bible dem nah translate fuh deh benefit of deh blackman". How much of what we are told and taught is true and true according to who?   

GTAngler posted:

I believe that what we know as religion was created by man to control man and to also impose their will. How much of what was seen as visions and being touched by god can now be explained by modern day medicine?

Oye GTangler,

Sumthing aint right,we think along the same lines.

A man can sey wahever he wants. I doan have to pay him no mind. I believe wah I believe in. Being an Indian, I think brings me in closer to the fear of God. We  Hindu Indians are like that, God is everywhere and He has all kinds of forms. Just examine the words of the Buddah and all the other Indian sages, there is that unwavering belief that God is all seeing.

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

seignet posted:

A man can sey wahever he wants. I doan have to pay him no mind. I believe wah I believe in. Being an Indian, I think brings me in closer to the fear of God. We  Hindu Indians are like that, God is everywhere and He has all kinds of forms. Just examine the words of the Buddah and all the other Indian sages, there is that unwavering belief that God is all seeing.

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

There are too many of us around. We are secure.

ksazma posted:

My opinion is that from the beginning of time humans have sought to connect with something much more superior than themselves and the greater that thing the more real it is regarded. I don't see anything wrong with that even if it only achieve the effects of good habits and behavior. But then comes the challenge. Since we don't all think alike, our idea of that superior being will also differ. Now comes the turf war where everything gets sacrificed including the very essential motive for seeking a superior being in the first time.

Another element is the potential profits of separating oneself from the pack. We see this by the many denominations in Christian churches as well as different mosques or mandirs. Folks don't come together at Eid times or Phagwah melas because they fear they would have to split the purse.

The problem is those individuals who beat their chests proclaiming their belief while condemning other, because they're told to, don't realize they're being used to establish a power base for someone or some other group to use.

seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

I find that as people become more involved in the church or church activities, they also become more intolerant to others. Since I am not able to assert that they are doing this consciously, I have to stick with it being an unintended consequence of their involvement. It is not difficult to observe these individuals seeing faults in others such as they don't attend churches, mandirs or mosques as often as they should or that their monetary or otherwise contributions are not sufficient. In my opinion, when one gets to that stage, they are no longer benefiting from that religious or spiritual endeavor.

But there is also another aspect that is equally concerning. That is the desire to export one's faith, culture or customs. I once viewed a video of a German who became a Muslim who pointed out that while he has become a Muslim, he continued to dress as he always did in western garb i.e. suits. He stated that he does not see the need to change his attire to an Arabic garment to solidify his Muslim faith. That was significant to me because I see many people dressing in Arabic garment and not really realizing that it may be Saudi Arabia's method of promulgating Islam. I personally don't care for the Muslim gown for the very essential Muslim creed of 'cleanliness is next to Godliness'. Most of those gowns sweeps the road on one's way to the mosque. Certainly that is not how the Prophet wore his gown as his went no lower than around halfway between his knees and ankle. One sees the same with Hindu churchgoers but I am not in a position to make any assessment on that as I don't necessarily know of all the intricacies involved with their chosen attire. I think these are all methods to export one's customs whether the person doing it is aware of it or not.

antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

seignet posted:

A man can sey wahever he wants. I doan have to pay him no mind. I believe wah I believe in. Being an Indian, I think brings me in closer to the fear of God. We  Hindu Indians are like that, God is everywhere and He has all kinds of forms. Just examine the words of the Buddah and all the other Indian sages, there is that unwavering belief that God is all seeing.

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

DemHindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

According to their belief any one who believe in God,can be considered a Hindu,their religion, or a "way of life" with "no founder"

Dated between 500 BCE and 300 CE following the Vedic period 1500 BCE to 500 BCE,considered to be the oldest in the world.

seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

So here's the thing. Why try to push any religion and try to save the world when it is already known the amount of persons who will be saved because heaven doesn't have room for too many...they cannot have standing room only? From what I understand here, these folk are already chosen so wheter or not we keep in line chances are we cork duck.

cain posted:
seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

So here's the thing. Why try to push any religion and try to save the world when it is already known the amount of persons who will be saved because heaven doesn't have room for too many...they cannot have standing room only? From what I understand here, these folk are already chosen so wheter or not we keep in line chances are we cork duck.

I've not been following these post due to some ignorance that's not worth replying too. But what I have highlighted about is false. There is no set number, could you an provide me with where you got that information I would be grateful.  

cain posted:
seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

So here's the thing. Why try to push any religion and try to save the world when it is already known the amount of persons who will be saved because heaven doesn't have room for too many...they cannot have standing room only? From what I understand here, these folk are already chosen so wheter or not we keep in line chances are we cork duck.

God who is ever seeing knows who will make it. Out of the billions of souls that graced the earth there is never known which soul(not person)will be in that 144,000. Buddah says, the soul travels for thousands of years until it reaches nirvana(oneness with God).

Who are these 144,000?

Who are the 144,000? will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as representative of the church and the number 144,000 being symbolic of the totality, that is, the complete number of the church. Yet when taken at face value: "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel" (Revelation 7:4), nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews 12,000 taken from every tribe of the "sons of Israel." The New Testament offers no clear cut text replacing Israel with the church.

Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Some facts about the 144,000 from Revelation 7 and Revelation 14 give us insight regarding their identity.

1. They are called the children of Israel, Revelation 7.

2. Their tribal affiliation is specific, Revelation 7:4-8.

3. They seem to be protected and triumphant through the period of God's wrath, meeting with Jesus at Mount Zion at His return Revelation 714:1.

4. They are celibate, Revelation 14:4.

5. They are the beginning of a greater harvest, Revelation 14:4.

6. They are marked by integrity and faithfulness, Revelation 14:5.

Taken together, these facts make it difficult to say that the 144,000 are a symbolic picture of the church.

1. Israel is a term never specifically applied to the church in the New Testament, and never by any Christian until 160 A.D.

2. Their tribal affiliation is emphatic and known to God. Even if God only knows it, there is absolutely no reason to regard their tribal affiliation as symbolic, not literal.

3. It is difficult to imagine the entire church surviving through the tribulation without martyrdom, and remaining celibate through the period, something that was never required for the church as a whole, 1 Corinthians 7:1-6.

4. If the 144,000 are a symbol of the entire church, what greater harvest are they the beginning of?

It is best to see the 144,000 as specifically chosen Jewish believers in Jesus, protectively sealed throughout the tribulation as a sign.

These Jews are sealed, which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (look at Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of first fruits (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–27), and their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language" (Revelation 7:9) will come to faith in Christ.

Everything about Christianity and the Bible is make believe. And in the end they are all being proven to be incorrect. Take for instance the 'Finding Jesus' episode last night. They were seeking to determine if Peter ever made it to Rome. Now the Vatican has some bones that they declared are Peter's but they are not available for carbon testing. Fortunately the scientists were able to get part of what they claim is Peter's cross and lo and behold, the carbon testing proved that it was from the 3rd century and not during Peter's time.

Oh, by the way. Peter doesn't know the name Peter. His name was Simon. The church make up the name by translating Cephas which stands for the rock.

Everyone has the right to believe what he or she believes. The more educated we get, the more questions we have. There is proof that we've evolved. Some accept and some refuse. I believe that there is a higher form of intelligence that created us maybe not along the timeline religion teaches us. Regardless of how far back we go, religion and science have to meet. Another example of why I tend to be skeptical about what we are taught. There is a sculpture of Moses commissioned by Pope Julius II that depicts him with horns. It was based on a translation of the bible used at that time. The actual description was "rays of light emanating from his head", but the scribe misinterpreted read that as horns.

seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

So Christians are wrong to condemn others?

Keith posted:

Seek God Early

Psalm 63:1-8

You’ve probably heard people say that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. A similar concept applies to our heart and mind. The fuel we give them each morning greatly affects the remainder of the day. Think of time in God’s Word, prayer, and meditation as spiritual nourishment for your relationship with the Father.

David began his day with the Lord. In Psalm 63, he described seeking God early (the literal translation of earnestly). He woke up ravenous for his Creator, and after filling his yearning soul with the fullness of the Lord, he broke out in thanksgiving and praise to Him. Even while lying on his bed at night, David was still thinking about his heavenly Father.

Just imagine having a day like that—filled with joy and gratitude to God. This is possible when we set apart the beginning of our day to spend with the Lord, listening to Him speak through His Word and talking to Him in prayer. Our blessing will be even richer when we stay mindful of God throughout the day and into the night, contemplating who He is and how He works. Seeking the Lord not only fills our empty soul; it also increases our hunger for more of Him.

Do you find it a struggle to set apart time with the Lord each morning? Realize that lifelong habits begin with baby steps, not overwhelming resolutions. Start today—set aside 15 minutes this morning. Then try doing so for a few days, and see if the Lord begins to satisfy your soul and increase your hunger for Him.

Why wait till breakfast? The day starts at 00:01.

Keith posted:
cain posted:
seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

So here's the thing. Why try to push any religion and try to save the world when it is already known the amount of persons who will be saved because heaven doesn't have room for too many...they cannot have standing room only? From what I understand here, these folk are already chosen so wheter or not we keep in line chances are we cork duck.

I've not been following these post due to some ignorance that's not worth replying too. But what I have highlighted about is false. There is no set number, could you an provide me with where you got that information I would be grateful.  

I think you just broke a commandment.

Keith posted:
cain posted:

There you go Keith...that number was previously posted by Disciple Siggy to whom I replied. You fellas not using the same book?

Thanks, see response above.

Oh man..the 144K should not be taken literally... but they are..yet again they are jews but they aren,t..they should be celebate but not necessary so. Unfortunately, the response is much more confusing than trying to figure out who the 144k are but thanks all the same.

GTAngler posted:

Everyone has the right to believe what he or she believes. The more educated we get, the more questions we have. There is proof that we've evolved. Some accept and some refuse. I believe that there is a higher form of intelligence that created us maybe not along the timeline religion teaches us. Regardless of how far back we go, religion and science have to meet. Another example of why I tend to be skeptical about what we are taught. There is a sculpture of Moses commissioned by Pope Julius II that depicts him with horns. It was based on a translation of the bible used at that time. The actual description was "rays of light emanating from his head", but the scribe misinterpreted read that as horns.

According to the Book of Enoch, at the birth of Noah, rays of light emanated from his eyes. And not only rays light, he also spoke at his birth, praising God. Dis God can do anything, even proclaim He has a son.

Noah gave his father Lamech such a scare. Lamech was sure his wife gave birth to a child concieved by the falling angels. Suh Lamech rushed off to find Enoch to inquire. Enoch would tell him, "that son is a remnant on the earth." 

cain posted:
Keith posted:
cain posted:

There you go Keith...that number was previously posted by Disciple Siggy to whom I replied. You fellas not using the same book?

Thanks, see response above.

Oh man..the 144K should not be taken literally... but they are..yet again they are jews but they aren,t..they should be celebate but not necessary so. Unfortunately, the response is much more confusing than trying to figure out who the 144k are but thanks all the same.

Noah spent his entire life telling the people of his generation to repent of their sinful ways. They never listened. And in the end, only him and his family survived. Posissbly a mere 8 out of millions. Even before Noah took up the mantle of his great great grand father Enoch, Enoch also was scoofed at. He was laughed at, even beaten the book seys.

And it is written, this present generation is as the generation of Noah.

"If only 8 people were saved back, then u figure."

Mankind has never changed.  

 

antabanta posted:
seignet posted:
antabanta posted:
seignet posted:

I doan give three hoots for those who besmirch God, let dem try deh with dem condemnation.

Dem Hindus doan try convincing anybody about God. Only dem duz beatup Christians.

So we should all ignore those idiots who run around condemning others to hellfire?

I think Christian can be credited with a much larger legacy for beating up other people. You forget that a mostly Hindu India was under the colonial, Christian yoke for over two hundred years.

Indians are  a special race of people. We bear our chafee. We can be found in all the relgions of the world. Our minds are in tune wid God. A Godly person has no room for condemmation of others. His relationship with God is a personal one. The Bible seys, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD there will be only 144000 at the end times. I believe every one of them will be Professors of The Christ. 

 

So Christians are wrong to condemn others?

Bai, dey feel responsible fuh yuh soul and not so much u personally. U r just a casing. In time ' man will return to soil from which man was formed. From the words of those ancient scribes, the soul goes somewhere. It makes alot of sense, I cannot accept, that after death my senses, experiences of the soul just ceases.

Enoch seys, when God formed the stars, he called them out. Those that came forward were deemed Angels. And those who refused His command were deemed demons.

For a rebellious soul it is written where it is assigned to. For the soul of righteousness, it goes to the Father's mansion and it shines among the stars in varying brilliance. 

Keith posted:

What If There Is No Resurrection?

1 Corinthians 15:12-19

On a very cold November afternoon, I sat under a green tent with my mother’s coffin in front of me. How many times had I stood in cemeteries, offering comfort and the Word of God to those who had lost a loved one? But this was my first experience being on the other side of the casket. As I sat there, a shocking thought popped into my head: Suppose there is no resurrection! This idea was quickly driven away by my faith and confidence in Christ. But it had lasted just long enough for me to feel the despair and hopelessness of such a belief.

To help us appreciate Christ’s victory over the grave, let’s consider what the outcome of life and death would be without the resurrection. First of all, Jesus would still be dead. That means our faith in Him would be worthless and our message to the world would be a lie. What’s more, Jesus Himself would be proved a liar since He claimed that He would rise from the dead.

There would be no forgiveness of our sins, no possibility of reconciliation with God, and no hope of heaven. All deceased believers throughout history would have perished. Without the resurrection, there would be nothing positive for anyone to look forward to. Everybody’s destiny after death would be hell.

Thank God, none of these scenarios are true. Our Savior lives, our sins are forgiven, death has been defeated, and believers in Christ have assurance of eternity in heaven with Him. After considering how hopeless we would be without a resurrection, let’s rejoice all the more in the greatness of our salvation.

Why do you despair if there's no resurrection?

Keith posted:

Our Glorious Hope

1 Corinthians 15:20-58

When we hear the word resurrection, most of us instantly think about Jesus rising from the dead, but His victory over the grave shows what’s going to happen to us as well. One day every believer who has died will experience a bodily resurrection like His, and those who are alive when Christ returns will be changed from mortal to immortal in the twinkling of an eye.

One of the first questions that spring to mind is, What am I going to look like? I can’t answer that specifically, but all I know is, you’re going to look as good as the Creator can make you. And that’s pretty good! These humble earthly bodies will be transformed into glorious bodies like His—minus the divinity, of course. The apostle Paul provides some hints about their characteristics: They are imperishable, glorious, powerful, and spiritual. As such, they will be fit for life in heaven. We’ll never again experience sin, sickness, pain, suffering, weakness, exhaustion, or death.

At times people ask me if we’ll be recognizable—that is, will we know our loved ones, and will they know us? Consider this: How could such powerful, glorious bodies be limited in this area if they are so much more advanced in every other way? I’m fully convinced that all our senses and mental abilities will be enhanced, not diminished.

A glorious future lies ahead of us, but the joy of a new body and a reunion with loved ones will be surpassed by the thrill of seeing Jesus face to face. He is the One who made all this possible. Out of gratitude, let’s faithfully love and serve Him while we remain on this earth.

Excellent fantasy.

When Jesus was here, there were dead people as well as living ones. Supposedly he had already died and resurrected before he left. Why didn't he just stayed and let the already dead people be resurrected and those who were still alive be changed from mortal to immortal? Why all the waiting shenanigans and allowing all the wickedness we have seen before and after him? Only yesterday there was a heinous attack on civilians in Syria. Why didn't Jesus just stayed when he was here so that such attacks on innocent civilians don't take place?

antabanta posted:

Why does the aspect of no resurrection cause someone despair? --- Anyone?

That is because Christians are taught that resurrection is essential for their salvation. Paul wrote that if there is no resurrection then their faith is in vain. My guess is that would cause one to despair.

The problem is that nothing changed after that resurrection as people still behave as they did before and there is no less sins now than before. Jesus came, did nothing, the world remained the same and suddenly we are to think that just accepting Jesus will make all evil disappear. Unfortunately there is no reasonable evidence to support this as we see those very close to him had no problem denying him. If they had no problem denying him what about these nowadays pretenders.

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