President's appointment can be considered void... Time to head to court and if not resolved..head to the Caribbean Court.

Deep fear created over prospect of future elections – Fmr Speaker

Following the announcement that President David Granger had unilaterally selected a new Chairman for the Guyana Elections Commission (GECOM) in the person of Justice (retd) James Patterson, there has been much debate and controversy surrounding the legality of such a move.
More importantly, this decision has, to a large extent, created deep fear and anguish over the prospect of future elections.
This is according to former Speaker of the National Assembly, Attorney-at-Law Ralph Ramkarran, who, in his weekly column, ‘Conversation Tree’, declared that Guyanese have been victims of rigged elections in Guyana since 1968. More specifically, the People’s Progressive Party (PPP) and its supporters have been those victims.
Ramkarran recalled that for democracy to be restored to Guyana, it took 24 years of hard and painful struggle, during which Guyana’s economic and social development was severely damaged; and he said the country is still recovering from that period.
“The deep fears of the PPP, arising from the initial impasse over the selection of the Chair and now the eventual breakdown of the process, must be instilling deep fear and anguish over the future and the prospect of being rigged out of office for another twenty-five years,” he opined.
Ramkarran was keen to point out that the PPP went to extraordinary lengths over the past 10 months to find 18 Guyanese willing to agree to have their names submitted to President Granger for consideration to be appointed to what he described as one of the most difficult, controversial and thankless of jobs – Chair of GECOM.
And according to him, of the last six names submitted, two immediately stood out and met the President’s criteria of ‘fit and proper,’ which he has been referring to continually.
While many of the other nominees are also well qualified, Ramkarran said, no one can seriously assert that the political persuasion of either of these two men, if any, would influence their decisions. He was referring specifically to retired Major General Joe Singh and Attorney-at -Law Teni Housty. Ramkarran noted that Singh had been a highly respected Chief of Staff of the Guyana Defence Force, and was Chair of GECOM for the 2002 elections, which were credibly held. And Housty is a well-respected, well-qualified, senior experienced, lawyer and former President of the Guyana Bar Association.
Meanwhile, in addressing another matter, Ramkarran said that while the PPP has announced that it would mount a constitutional challenge to the President’s appointment of a Chairman for GECOM, he believes the best time for this was after the President had rejected the first six names, and in so doing had suggested that the names should be of only judges, former judges, or persons qualified to be judges.
“The results of the case, which was filed after the Leader of the Opposition had submitted a second set of names, showed that it could have been possible to obtain an order from the court directing the President to choose a name from that first six,” he explained.
But having submitted two further sets of six names, each at the invitation of the President, the Opposition Leader had been deprived of the opportunity of having the court issue an order in relation to the first six names.
He insisted that the Constitution provides thus: “If the Leader of the Opposition FAILS to submit a list as provided for,” only then can the President proceed unilaterally to make an appointment of a judge, former judge, or person qualified to be a judge to the post of GECOM Chairman.
Ramkarran pointed out that the Opposition Leader had submitted a list which was amended twice by the substitution of names. He said that in that case, the Opposition Leader did not fail to submit a list, and the President’s appointment is therefore void.
Touching on the PPP’s decision of declaring non-cooperation with the Government, Ramkarran said it is not the first time in the PPP’s history that non-cooperation was declared.
He recalled that after the 1973 elections, at which the People’s National Congress (PNC) had seized a two-thirds majority, the PPP had declared non-cooperation and did not take up its seats in the National Assembly for 18 months.
“The PNC did the same after 1992, and did not take up their seats in the National Assembly for long periods of time in the years thereafter.
In both cases, the respective governments had carried on their business with little disruption, but with great bitterness.
“Based on past history with the PPP and PNC, the PPP’s non-cooperation would mean very little in practical terms to the government’s agenda,” Ramkarran asserted.

Original Post

"He insisted that the Constitution provides thus: “If the Leader of the Opposition FAILS to submit a list as provided for,” only then can the President proceed unilaterally to make an appointment of a judge, former judge, or person qualified to be a judge to the post of GECOM Chairman.
Ramkarran pointed out that the Opposition Leader had submitted a list which was amended twice by the substitution of names. He said that in that case, the Opposition Leader did not fail to submit a list, and the President’s appointment is therefore void."

alena06 posted:

Deep fear created over prospect of future elections – Fmr Speaker

 
Ramkarran pointed out that the Opposition Leader had submitted a list which was amended twice by the substitution of names. He said that in that case, the Opposition Leader did not fail to submit a list, and the President’s appointment is therefore void.

Gist of the issue on hand.

alena06 posted:

Deep fear created over prospect of future elections – Fmr Speaker

Following the announcement that President David Granger had unilaterally selected a new Chairman for the Guyana Elections Commission (GECOM) in the person of Justice (retd) James Patterson, there has been much debate and controversy surrounding the legality of such a move.
He insisted that the Constitution provides thus: “If the Leader of the Opposition FAILS to submit a list as provided for,” only then can the President proceed unilaterally to make an appointment of a judge, former judge, or person qualified to be a judge to the post of GECOM Chairman.

Noted and is the basis of all the issue and dialogues.

yuji22 posted:

This will end up at the CC court of Justice. 

Bet you not. The CCJ is going to say that this is quite clear. 

Don't cry that Jagdeo amended the constitution in a manner that would have benefitted him but it turned out that the PPP lost the election, and now he finds himself in the position of being leader of the opposition.

Jagdeo inserted that because he had no interest in selecting some black person chosen by the PNC because he knew full well that his "coolie people party" could never accept any black person being in charge of the electoral process.  

The PNC knew this so ensured that they put in Indians who they trusted, knowing that the PPP would only select an Indian.

Demerara_Guy posted:

While an action is improper, one needs to pursue the matter in stages and eventually through the courts.

And the courts will tell Jagdeo that if he developed a crooked deal, thinking that he would be "president for life" the fact that this didn't happen isn't something that the courts can be involved in.

yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Carib will disagree with you because every issue in Guyana has to evaluated in his terms of Coolie and Black, whereby, Coolie always take advantage of blacks.

Gilbakka posted:
That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Until you all dump the racist Jagdeo Afros are isolated from this cause.

Its over to you. Get rid of Jagdeo, a man who has a pathological hatred of blacks!

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Gilbakka 

Carib will disagree with you because every issue in Guyana has to evaluated in his terms of Coolie and Black, whereby, Coolie always take advantage of blacks.

Hmmm. I see so you can spend all day chatting about the "plight of Indians from this Afro gov't", but I mustn't inject the fact that the PPP has been terrible to blacks.

Now I know being clannish in nature its impossible for you to be objective, but at least try.

Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Gil,

The reason is why we are at this sad state today is because many including yourself failed to call a spade a spade and supported the AFC.

Black PNC Presidents have a history of rigging elections and becoming dictators, Granger is no exception.

Going forward, it is important that we are clear on that we need to bring out in the open. Speaking the truth is what must be done today.

Now, the Afro PNC leadership are accusing the PPP off having Indos as head of GECOM during the PPP's term in office, well, no election was rigged under the PPP.

I prefer to call a spade a spade.

I have made it abundantly clear that Jagdeo will eventually have to go and I support a Black or mixed leader for the PPP going forward into 2020.

The problem is with Black PNC Presidents  and nothing has changed in all of these years, every time a Black PNC President emerges, the country has to fight for free and fair elections and that is the absolute truth.

Yuji22

yuji22 posted:
Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Gil,

 

The problem is with Black PNC Presidents  and nothing has changed in all of these years, every time a Black PNC President emerges, the country has to fight for free and fair elections and that is the absolute truth.

Yuji22

What are the ominous dark clouds hanging over free and fair elections in Guyana ?

The commission has,Three (3) members appointed by the President acting on the advice of the Leader of the Opposition after he has meaningfully consulted the non-governmental opposition parties represented in the National Assembly.

Will the three members be toothless ?

more info here

caribny posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Gilbakka 

Carib will disagree with you because every issue in Guyana has to evaluated in his terms of Coolie and Black, whereby, Coolie always take advantage of blacks.

Hmmm. I see so you can spend all day chatting about the "plight of Indians from this Afro gov't", but I mustn't inject the fact that the PPP has been terrible to blacks.

Now I know being clannish in nature its impossible for you to be objective, but at least try.

Bannas yuh deh pun dis nonsense again even though I schooled you.  

In fact the PPP were too appeasing to Blacks, giving them free electricity and other benefits at the expense of other Indos. Why you think slop can boy and the rest of them Indos join up the AFC, discontent among the Indos as PPP channel funds to blacks. 

I even schooled you about the black people saying Jagdeo is the father of the nation and he gave them milk while pnc gave black tea. 

yuji22 posted:

Gil,

The reason is why we are at this sad state today is because many including yourself failed to call a spade a spade and supported the AFC.

That was and still is a blessing for Guyana the PPP had to go. 

Django posted:
yuji22 posted:
Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Gil,

 

The problem is with Black PNC Presidents  and nothing has changed in all of these years, every time a Black PNC President emerges, the country has to fight for free and fair elections and that is the absolute truth.

Yuji22

What are the ominous dark clouds hanging over free and fair elections in Guyana ?

The commission has,Three (3) members appointed by the President acting on the advice of the Leader of the Opposition after he has meaningfully consulted the non-governmental opposition parties represented in the National Assembly.

Will the three members be toothless ?

more info here

GECOM Chairman Patterson has the casting vote in the event of a tie, giving APNU 4 votes against PPP 3.

Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Too late. Hinds already injected race into the discussion and Carib has been parroting it since. 

Ramkarran pointed to what he believe was the President over-reaching. Ram did the same. All the other opposition to what Granger did based their argument on his over-reaching. None of them mentioned anything about race. Hinds came galloping in with his race over-reaching. Yuji is very late to Hinds' race baiting dance.

Django posted:
yuji22 posted:
 

Gil,

 

The problem is with Black PNC Presidents  and nothing has changed in all of these years, every time a Black PNC President emerges, the country has to fight for free and fair elections and that is the absolute truth.

Yuji22

What are the ominous dark clouds hanging over free and fair elections in Guyana ?

The commission has,Three (3) members appointed by the President acting on the advice of the Leader of the Opposition after he has meaningfully consulted the non-governmental opposition parties represented in the National Assembly.

Will the three members be toothless ?

more info here

Django bai. This is how it will go down. The other day, Granger asked Kennard to resign. Chances are that Granger asked Joe Singh to resign today. Tomorrow, it will be someone else who Granger sees as being in his way. Sometime before 2020 those three members will be asked to resign and then old man Patterson will say that they are way too old and tired to prepare for any elections and since Guyana already have a leader, yes leader as how things are with North Korea, there is no need to get a another leader. Like in the old PNC wicked days.

ksazma posted:
Django posted:
yuji22 posted:
 

Gil,

 

The problem is with Black PNC Presidents  and nothing has changed in all of these years, every time a Black PNC President emerges, the country has to fight for free and fair elections and that is the absolute truth.

Yuji22

What are the ominous dark clouds hanging over free and fair elections in Guyana ?

The commission has,Three (3) members appointed by the President acting on the advice of the Leader of the Opposition after he has meaningfully consulted the non-governmental opposition parties represented in the National Assembly.

Will the three members be toothless ?

more info here

Django bai. This is how it will go down. The other day, Granger asked Kennard to resign. Chances are that Granger asked Joe Singh to resign today. Tomorrow, it will be someone else who Granger sees as being in his way. Sometime before 2020 those three members will be asked to resign and then old man Patterson will say that they are way too old and tired to prepare for any elections and since Guyana already have a leader, yes leader as how things are with North Korea, there is no need to get a another leader. Like in the old PNC wicked days.

Kaz,

Here is my take,Patterson is there for the LGE and will resign by 2020 Elections,new Election chairman will have to be nominated,that will cause the 2020 Elections to be delayed,something is amiss and  it does not smell right,the PPP will be against the wall.

Django posted:
 

Kaz,

Here is my take,Patterson is there for the LGE and will resign by 2020 Elections,new Election chairman will have to be nominated,that will cause the 2020 Elections to be delayed,something is amiss and  it does not smell right,the PPP will be against the wall.

Django, whether fair or not, people are judged by their record. Nowadays, fair thinking people will believe that Trump is lying and not the person he is fighting with at that time. That is because he is known to lie all the time. Today, Flake said it in no uncertain terms. Trump can change that narrative but he has to do some repair to his reputation through corrective actions. Likewise, the PNC are known for wickedness regarding elections conduct. That narrative could also go away but it too will require corrective actions from the PNC. They needed to prove to those who held them in suspicion that they are not the PNC of old. Unfortunately, they didn't see a need for any corrective actions. And now, Granger's very first executive action relating to elections reeks of election rigging plans. So it is very fair to judge the PNC by their record. Especially since they don't seem interested in changing it.

ksazma posted:
Django posted:
 

Kaz,

Here is my take,Patterson is there for the LGE and will resign by 2020 Elections,new Election chairman will have to be nominated,that will cause the 2020 Elections to be delayed,something is amiss and  it does not smell right,the PPP will be against the wall.

Django, whether fair or not, people are judged by their record. Nowadays, fair thinking people will believe that Trump is lying and not the person he is fighting with at that time. That is because he is known to lie all the time. Today, Flake said it in no uncertain terms. Trump can change that narrative but he has to do some repair to his reputation through corrective actions. Likewise, the PNC are known for wickedness regarding elections conduct. That narrative could also go away but it too will require corrective actions from the PNC. They needed to prove to those who held them in suspicion that they are not the PNC of old. Unfortunately, they didn't see a need for any corrective actions. And now, Granger's very first executive action relating to elections reeks of election rigging plans. So it is very fair to judge the PNC by their record. Especially since they don't seem interested in changing it.

I am disappointed in Granger approach to nominating the GECOM Chairman,I knew he will be taking that approach and was hoping it will not happen,when the  Diwali function was held at State House,I saw him as a President for all the people embracing their cultures,back of my mind i said if he can offer an apology for atrocities committed by the PNC to the Nation and especially East Indians,he has a far way to go,i guess my mind was playing games,the PNC is back to their old ways..

Django posted:
ksazma posted:
Django posted:
 

Kaz,

Here is my take,Patterson is there for the LGE and will resign by 2020 Elections,new Election chairman will have to be nominated,that will cause the 2020 Elections to be delayed,something is amiss and  it does not smell right,the PPP will be against the wall.

Django, whether fair or not, people are judged by their record. Nowadays, fair thinking people will believe that Trump is lying and not the person he is fighting with at that time. That is because he is known to lie all the time. Today, Flake said it in no uncertain terms. Trump can change that narrative but he has to do some repair to his reputation through corrective actions. Likewise, the PNC are known for wickedness regarding elections conduct. That narrative could also go away but it too will require corrective actions from the PNC. They needed to prove to those who held them in suspicion that they are not the PNC of old. Unfortunately, they didn't see a need for any corrective actions. And now, Granger's very first executive action relating to elections reeks of election rigging plans. So it is very fair to judge the PNC by their record. Especially since they don't seem interested in changing it.

I am disappointed in Granger approach to nominating the GECOM Chairman,I knew he will be taking that approach and was hoping it will not happen,when the  Diwali function was held at State House,I saw him as a President for all the people embracing their cultures,back of my mind i said if he can offer an apology for atrocities committed by the PNC to the Nation and especially East Indians,he has a far way to go,i guess my mind was playing games,the PNC is back to the old ways..

Maybe Granger is confused or his actions are. I didn't like Granger giving the nation's second highest award to Green. A man who reputation is as crooked as they come. There has not been enough days of repute that will allow Granger to go to Burnham's grave site to honor him. Burnham is Guyana's pariah. Yet Granger worships him. None of those actions demonstrate that Granger is not worthy of your or my trust.

yuji22 posted:
Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Gil,

The reason is why we are at this sad state today is because many including yourself failed to call a spade a spade and supported the AFC.

Black PNC Presidents have a history of rigging elections and becoming dictators, Granger is no exception.

 

I prefer to call a spade a spade.

 

There are spades and there are spades. Some spades are used to make concrete blocks for building houses. Other spades are used to scoop dog poop. Be a builder, yuji, not a poop scooper.

Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:
Gilbakka posted:
yuji22 posted:

Every time Guyana has a Afro President, they have to fight for free and fair elections.

Burnham, Hoyte and now Granger.

Why ?

ALL elections under the PPP were CERTIFIED free and fair.

yuji22, at a time like this pro-democracy forces need the broadest-based support and participation for victory. Not advisable to bring in Afro or Indo talk. That will isolate Afro support from our cause: free and fair elections.

Gil,

The reason is why we are at this sad state today is because many including yourself failed to call a spade a spade and supported the AFC.

Black PNC Presidents have a history of rigging elections and becoming dictators, Granger is no exception.

 

I prefer to call a spade a spade.

 

There are spades and there are spades. Some spades are used to make concrete blocks for building houses. Other spades are used to scoop dog poop. Be a builder, yuji, not a poop scooper.

Well,

All of those who supported the AFC have to shovel Granger's poop.

Drugb posted:
 

I even schooled you about the black people saying Jagdeo is the father of the nation and he gave them milk while pnc gave black tea. 

Yes the black criminals had this opinion of Jagdeo as this was their best days.  They became filthy rich being part of paramilitia gangs working for the Indo oligarchs.

Clearly the election shows that other blacks don't agree with you.  And of course your usual racist assertion that blacks are lazy   so don't earn income so don't pay taxes.  Its the salaried workers who pay most of the taxes. NOT the business class.  Blacks are well represented among the salaried class.

ksazma posted:
 

Too late. Hinds already injected race into the discussion and Carib has been parroting it since. 

 

Kaz's notion of not injecting race is Indo domination but no mention of this as a fact.  The man loved the Jagdeo era when almost all decision making in Guyana was handled by Indians and that those who objected, even the few Indians who did, were called anti Indian racists.

Carry one Kaz.  You are a card carrying member of the Indo KKK.

Django posted:
he can offer an apology for atrocities committed by the PNC to the Nation and especially East Indians,he has a far way to go,i guess my mind was playing games,the PNC is back to their old ways..

And here we are back to "black man bad, Indians good so blackman has to apologize"

Please tell me how this will deal with the racial animosity given the fact that most blacks feel that they suffered under the PPPs 23 years and will not appreciate being the only ones being told to apologize. 

And yes in the context of Guyana if the PNC must apologize but not the PPP this is in fact blaming blacks for being the ONLY cause of the racial animus.

Drop this demand, or suggest that BOTH engage in this!

ksazma posted:
 

Maybe Granger is confused or his actions are.

Granger is a passive aggressive insecure jackass and unwittingly is Jagdeo's best ally.  

Jagdeo set a trap for him and he fell in. I am sure even today not seeing what the Machiavellian devil was up to.

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