PPP has left Guyana in an ethnic trap – Dr. David Hinds.

After holding the reins of office for over two decades, some critics are of the view that the People’s Progressive Party (PPP) has left Guyana in a frightening ethnic trap.Specifically making this claim was Executive Member of the Working People’s Alliance (WPA), Dr. David Hinds.In his recent writings, Dr. Hinds opined that the ethnic trap in which the PPP left Guyana will have an impact on governance and politics for a long time to come.On the one hand, the University Professor said that the PPP’s mode of governance, grounded as it was in complete political domination, which in Guyana translates into ethnic dominance, ensured that African Guyanese developed a very deep fear and hatred for that party.   

On the other hand, he said that those who benefited from the transfer of state resources into private hands were almost exclusively Indian Guyanese. In addition, Dr. Hinds expressed that the PPP created a new class of mostly Indian Guyanese bureaucrats whose salaries, perks and power elevated them to elite status.
In other words, the political activist said that the PPP’s domination praxis was deeply ethnicized. He said that the consequence is that attempts to reform governance will be seen by most PPP supporters as ethnic revenge on the part of the current government.

 “I think what the PPP did was deliberate. PPP leadership has always been more ethnically deliberate. Whereas the African Guyanese elites tend to have a simplistic attitude to race and ethnicity, their Indian Guyanese counterparts tend to be much more aggressive and calculated on these issues. Part of the explanation for this lies in the relationship of our political leaderships to their followers.”Dr. Hinds commented that PNC leaders and the African Guyanese elites tend to be mostly urban in outlook and are usually out of step with the cultural motions of their followers. He said that race and ethnicity for them tend to be political tools to be used to gain power.


“There are very little ethnic emotions in their relationship to African Guyanese. There seems to be little confidence in the ability of African Guyanese masses to overcome.  Hence, there is no policy initiative aimed at empowering the group beyond the bare minimum.”Dr. Hinds said that African Guyanese power elites, except for a brief period under Burnham, tend to accept the failed but convenient model of “one tide lifts all.”He said that PPP leaders, on the other hand, have generally remained very close to the Indian masses.“Hence they are more sensitive to the ethnic reflexes of their followers. Many PPP leaders are rural people who even as they look out for themselves do not totally disconnect from the ethnic emotions of their followers. So, they are naturally less inclined to embrace the notion of “one tide lifts all” when it comes to ethnic empowerment. In that sense they are much more ethno-racially literate than their adversaries.

”Furthermore, Dr. Hinds explained that when the PNC left office in 1992, they left behind clusters of African Guyanese political enforcers and a class of government wage earning bureaucrats. He said that there was no new class of African Guyanese entrepreneurs or super-rich African Guyanese whose wealth came from the transfer of State resources. He said that this is not to say that African Guyanese were powerless in 1992. To the contrary, Dr. Hinds said that they controlled formal power in the military forces and the public service—political power.
“From the time the PPP took office, it set about dismantling those centers of African Guyanese power. It undermined the military and eventually co-opted its leadership. It further pauperized the Civil Service. It allowed bauxite to die a brutal death. They then encouraged a tiny cluster of African Guyanese hustlers by dangling before them individual wealth.


On the other hand, the WPA Executive Member said that sugar was hugely subsidized as an ethnic gesture to the mainly Indian Guyanese sugar workers. Dr. Hinds commented that state assets were transferred into the hands of both the old and new Indian Guyanese economic elites. He said that Indian Guyanese bureaucrats loyal to the PPP controlled the levers of political power. In all of this, Dr. Hinds said that there was always a few African Guyanese, but they were mere masks.“Indianists who sought to articulate an alternative Indian nationalism were bullied and eventually co-opted. By the time the PPP left office in 2015, practical control of all levers of formal power was firmly in the hands of the Indian Guyanese elites.”


“The PPP has left Guyana in an ethnic trap that would stymie any effort at correcting the PPP wrongs. What this has meant is that any turning back of the wrongs committed by the PPP has had ethno-racial consequences. Correcting the problems associated with sugar and to some extent rice means walking into an ethnic trap.”
Given the ethnic manner in which the PPP treated the sugar problem, Dr. Hinds said that any attempt to solve it is bound to have ethnic consequences.In this regard, he remarked, “I don’t see how the government will do right by sugar and not face the politically devastating charge of racism. The issue has been framed as an assault on Indian Guyanese rather than an attempt to free Guyana from the debilitating clutches of an unproductive industry.”


Furthermore, Dr. Hinds stated that the removal of PPP loyalists from mega-salaried government jobs has also landed the government in the same trap. He said thatmost of these political positions were staffed by Indian Guyanese.“Therefore, if one is going to clean the system, you invariably would have to go after those mostly Indian Guyanese political impositions. The same thing goes to for State Asset Recovery—who were mostly the recipients of State transfers? There cannot be an avoidance of the ethnic trap if there is going to be any serious State Asset recovery.”
On the other hand, the WPA Executive Member opined that African Guyanese were so battered under the PPP, it really would take some particular policy initiatives to correct that condition. Dr. Hinds stated that the ethnic imbalance in the commercial sector, for example, is so blatant, he does not see how that would be corrected without direct government intervention.“But the government dare not go there. In any case, I don’t think there are many people in the corridors of power who have the courage to confront that burning problem. We are expecting oil wealth, but that wealth would be arriving in the context of an ethnically imbalanced political economy. That is problem that few in and out of government are talking about.”


In conclusion, Dr. Hinds said that Guyana will be in for some “serious times”. He stressed that the new elite empowered by the PPP would not sit by and allow its newly appropriated wealth to be recovered by the government.“It would fight with ethnic fear, economic sabotage and even violence. That is what the push back against the State Asset Recovery Unit is mainly about. That is what the demonizing of the Special Organized Crime Unit is all about.”The political activist said that even as one might want to criticize the government for its sloth in moving to dismantle the criminalized State, one must be mindful of the ethnic trap it has to deal with.

Original Post
Django posted:

Yes bhai Yugi,all them blackman racist,collies clean as a whistle.

I have noticed you all want some of their votes you think them stupidy nah.

Take note alyuh calling their leader "Jackass"

You had white mouth when the PNC jackasses on this BB were calling Jagdeo all kinds of derogatory names? David Hines does not seem to realize that Guyana is a country divided along racial lines. Deep down, he still has "that blackman racist feeling". He might fool you, but I doubt that. You just decide to treat the PNC racists as altar boys.

skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:

Yes bhai Yugi,all them blackman racist,collies clean as a whistle.

I have noticed you all want some of their votes you think them stupidy nah.

Take note alyuh calling their leader "Jackass"

You had white mouth when the PNC jackasses on this BB were calling Jagdeo all kinds of derogatory names? David Hines does not seem to realize that Guyana is a country divided along racial lines. Deep down, he still has "that blackman racist feeling". He might fool you, but I doubt that. You just decide to treat the PNC racists as altar boys.

Dude i wasn't on GNI for a long while,check the archives.

Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:

Yes bhai Yugi,all them blackman racist,collies clean as a whistle.

I have noticed you all want some of their votes you think them stupidy nah.

Take note alyuh calling their leader "Jackass"

You had white mouth when the PNC jackasses on this BB were calling Jagdeo all kinds of derogatory names? David Hines does not seem to realize that Guyana is a country divided along racial lines. Deep down, he still has "that blackman racist feeling". He might fool you, but I doubt that. You just decide to treat the PNC racists as altar boys.

Dude i wasn't on GNI for a long while,check the archives.

Django, believe me, you were here singing the white mouth songs along with Redux, Mitwah and the rest.

Hinds is correct we read it right here about the government going after East Indians everytime someone is sent packing. If BJ placed mainly East Indians in positions who would get the boot when the time comes,a black person?

What he said about the sugar industry is also correct. BJ did nothing to help the situation, he just pumped money into a dying business.

Think about this. If there were more blacks in the sugar industry guess what he would have done? 

cain posted:

Hinds is correct we read it right here about the government going after East Indians everytime someone is sent packing. If BJ placed mainly East Indians in positions who would get the boot when the time comes,a black person?

What he said about the sugar industry is also correct. BJ did nothing to help the situation, he just pumped money into a dying business.

Think about this. If there were more blacks in the sugar industry guess what he would have done? 

True, but this is the mantra that Hinds and other Afrocentric leaders are singing in Guyana.

I dont believe that the PPP made a dedicated effort to disempower Blacks like Hinds is saying...they are not that smart.

But 3 hings are missing here:

1) The PPP did not tamper with the real seat of power: the army, police, bureaucracy...so much of what Hinds is saying is not logical.

2) Since the PNC now control real political power they can disenfranchise Indians, Amerindians, etc. Its not that difficult to do. Hinds is wrong on this...he is pushing his own agenda.

3) Assuming what Hinds is saying is the truth....how do we know when removing an Indian is not a deliberate act? Is there a criteria used for this??

 

The government need to set up a policy and plan as to how they are going to include the opposition in a future plan to tackle this problem.

yuji22 posted:

Another racist Afrocentric Jackass brays.

Jackass Hinds

 

You are such a dumb ass that you do not even recognize the deep shit the PPP has left us in. And you calling Hinds a jackass is indeed a laugh. From what you write, your delivery etc high-school is the best you know of academia. He has a doctorate and taught at a few universities so at least he grasp something about thinking.

VishMahabir posted:
cain posted:

Hinds is correct we read it right here about the government going after East Indians everytime someone is sent packing. If BJ placed mainly East Indians in positions who would get the boot when the time comes,a black person?

What he said about the sugar industry is also correct. BJ did nothing to help the situation, he just pumped money into a dying business.

Think about this. If there were more blacks in the sugar industry guess what he would have done? 

True, but this is the mantra that Hinds and other Afrocentric leaders are singing in Guyana.

I dont believe that the PPP made a dedicated effort to disempower Blacks like Hinds is saying...they are not that smart.

But 3 hings are missing here:

1) The PPP did not tamper with the real seat of power: the army, police, bureaucracy...so much of what Hinds is saying is not logical.

2) Since the PNC now control real political power they can disenfranchise Indians, Amerindians, etc. Its not that difficult to do. Hinds is wrong on this...he is pushing his own agenda.

3) Assuming what Hinds is saying is the truth....how do we know when removing an Indian is not a deliberate act? Is there a criteria used for this??

 

The government need to set up a policy and plan as to how they are going to include the opposition in a future plan to tackle this problem.

Just look about you. There are no rich black elite from the PPP tenure. Yet everywhere you see the old and the new elites are indians. Even T-shirts vendors building malls.

Unless you are plainly stupid you will grasp that democracy is built around a stable well articulated and closely networked elite. They would sontaneously grow across the racial demographics if the democracy is organized around deliberation and discussion across the spectrum of the society. This elite is  the social cement for progress and the only means to successful development of the society.When that elite is of one class, tribe, or ethnic group you have a dysfunctional democracy and it will inevitably decay into a dictatorship. 

Take a look in our world today. Syria, Iraq...all have fractured elites; vertically segmented by tribes and horizontally divided by religious sects. Saddam did not build anything. His Baathist group were Sinis who deliberately subjugated other groups.  Libya, was deliberately left tribal by Qaddafi. With him gone no summoning creed to weld the tribal enclaves into a whole. Syria is also similarly supported by a small sect who assumed all power to the detriment of others. The intolerable segmentation and dis-empowerment ultimately caused that society to explode.

Hinds similarly chastise the APNU for their lack of transparency, lack of inclusiveness and myopia. Granger created this monstrous Presidential Ministry with satellites ministries projecting from the center  from which every management decision radiate. He is reproducing the same PPP structure and this time it will be even more devastating for us given he will have the means to create an African elite class tens of times more rich and powerful than you can ever envision.

None of this would have happen if not for the base insidious diseased condition of greed that came from the PPP

This one sided RACIST trying hard to look like he is not BIAS. The PNC has a University where they teach BIAS, DISCRIMINATION and other PNC disciplines. Hinds attended that University so he talking SHIT. Everyone except the blind RACIST know the PNC gets their high on RACISM, INTIMIDATION, THREATS and VIOLENCE. You have to be a JACKASS to believe the CRAP he writes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D2 posted:
VishMahabir posted:
cain posted:

Hinds is correct we read it right here about the government going after East Indians everytime someone is sent packing. If BJ placed mainly East Indians in positions who would get the boot when the time comes,a black person?

What he said about the sugar industry is also correct. BJ did nothing to help the situation, he just pumped money into a dying business.

Think about this. If there were more blacks in the sugar industry guess what he would have done? 

True, but this is the mantra that Hinds and other Afrocentric leaders are singing in Guyana.

I dont believe that the PPP made a dedicated effort to disempower Blacks like Hinds is saying...they are not that smart.

But 3 hings are missing here:

1) The PPP did not tamper with the real seat of power: the army, police, bureaucracy...so much of what Hinds is saying is not logical.

2) Since the PNC now control real political power they can disenfranchise Indians, Amerindians, etc. Its not that difficult to do. Hinds is wrong on this...he is pushing his own agenda.

3) Assuming what Hinds is saying is the truth....how do we know when removing an Indian is not a deliberate act? Is there a criteria used for this??

 

The government need to set up a policy and plan as to how they are going to include the opposition in a future plan to tackle this problem.

Just look about you. There are no rich black elite from the PPP tenure. Yet everywhere you see the old and the new elites are indians. Even T-shirts vendors building malls.

Unless you are plainly stupid you will grasp that democracy is built around a stable well articulated and closely networked elite. They would sontaneously grow across the racial demographics if the democracy is organized around deliberation and discussion across the spectrum of the society. This elite is  the social cement for progress and the only means to successful development of the society.When that elite is of one class, tribe, or ethnic group you have a dysfunctional democracy and it will inevitably decay into a dictatorship. 

Take a look in our world today. Syria, Iraq...all have fractured elites; vertically segmented by tribes and horizontally divided by religious sects. Saddam did not build anything. His Baathist group were Sinis who deliberately subjugated other groups.  Libya, was deliberately left tribal by Qaddafi. With him gone no summoning creed to weld the tribal enclaves into a whole. Syria is also similarly supported by a small sect who assumed all power to the detriment of others. The intolerable segmentation and dis-empowerment ultimately caused that society to explode.

Hinds similarly chastise the APNU for their lack of transparency, lack of inclusiveness and myopia. Granger created this monstrous Presidential Ministry with satellites ministries projecting from the center  from which every management decision radiate. He is reproducing the same PPP structure and this time it will be even more devastating for us given he will have the means to create an African elite class tens of times more rich and powerful than you can ever envision.

None of this would have happen if not for the base insidious diseased condition of greed that came from the PPP

I am taking a course on ethnic politics at Queens College and some of these issues ring a bell…so here are my comments.

Just look about you. There are no rich black elite from the PPP tenure.

Banna, we are not dealing in trivialities or anecdotal evidence…looking around me does not do anything for me. When I look around me in my neighborhood all I see a lot of white people who own a lot of businesses and have a lot of cars in their driveways. However, I also know that there are a lot of Asians in my neighborhood who are doing quite well. I can use the US census tract report to compile statistical report and I can check the business records to see how many of these ‘invisible” Asians are doing well in business in this neighborhood. My point is : your observation, like the good professor in based on a personal observation, not statistical evidence. How in the world is it possible that no single non-Indian, after 23 years has gotten rich under the PPP?

This is Yet everywhere you see the old and the new elites are Indians. Even T-shirts vendors building malls.

I am going to assume that this statement is a desperate attempt to confirm Hinds point.

 

Unless you are plainly stupid you will grasp that democracy is built around a stable well articulated and closely networked elite. They would sontaneously grow across the racial demographics if the democracy is organized around deliberation and discussion across the spectrum of the society. This elite is the social cement for progress and the only means to successful development of the society.When that elite is of one class, tribe, or ethnic group you have a dysfunctional democracy and it will inevitably decay into a dictatorship.

These statements may be true of the PPP. But the way its written, they could also be true of the PNC era before 1992. You seem to forget that Guyana history started many years back when the PNC had a deliberate policy of setting up a dictatorship, as well as an ethnic state, in which according to Clive Thomas, more than 80% of the economy was owned by the state….and who controlled the state??. The PPP simple continued in that tradition and ran a further deteriorated state. Lets be fair about this.

Take a look in our world today. Syria, Iraq...all have fractured elites; vertically segmented by tribes and horizontally divided by religious sects. Saddam did not build anything. His Baathist group were Sinis who deliberately subjugated other groups. Libya, was deliberately left tribal by Qaddafi. With him gone no summoning creed to weld the tribal enclaves into a whole. Syria is also similarly supported by a small sect who assumed all power to the detriment of others. The intolerable segmentation and dis-empowerment ultimately caused that society to explode.

Not sure what you are blabbering about here. You comparing sticks and berries…Guyana has its own unique problems

 

Hinds similarly chastise the APNU for their lack of transparency, lack of inclusiveness and myopia. Granger created this monstrous Presidential Ministry with satellites ministries projecting from the center from which every management decision radiate. He is reproducing the same PPP structure and this time it will be even more devastating for us given he will have the means to create an African elite class tens of times more rich and powerful than you can ever envision.

I agree that the black elite may become more filthy rich than any PPP member or supporter. However, you miss the point. Hinds agenda is an Afrocentric one. He wants to justify a redistribution of the state resources and empower Afros. He does not believe the govt is going far enough. In his mindset, Indians have nothing to ask for. So what about the majority of Indians who live in the hinterland, outside GT whose lives are dependent on cash crops and seasonal employment?

The problem with this position, as I said before, is that inevitably the Indians will perceive all actions by the current govt as based on racism against Indians. So my question to you and Hinds: How do the leaders tackle this problem in society and move forward? The PNC did not tackle it, the PPP did not have a solution and the current PNC-led government does not have a plan to convince the MAJORITY of Indians that its policy is not based on race.

What I am suggesting is that leaders (in government and opposition) must agree on some plan or formula for addressing this problem. Otherwise, the same issue will come up again if and when the PPP gets into office…because Guyana’s racial problems are not going away anytime soon.

Hinds has said some things that makes sense, but some of his utterances are way out of line.

D2 posted:
FC posted:

You won't because you are devoid of class!!!!

he is in a class by himself! in mathematics you call it the empty set

As stated above both of you are JACKASSES, not that you will know. FILTH HEADS simply do not know anything but being STUPID. A FOOL like Hinds love dumb, stupid and naive FOOLS like you 2!!!!!!!!!

VishMahabir posted:

I am taking a course on ethnic politics at Queens College and some of these issues ring a bell…so here are my comments.

Just look about you. There are no rich black elite from the PPP tenure.

Banna, we are not dealing in trivialities or anecdotal evidence…looking around me does not do anything for me. When I look around me in my neighborhood all I see a lot of white people who own a lot of businesses and have a lot of cars in their driveways. However, I also know that there are a lot of Asians in my neighborhood who are doing quite well. I can use the US census tract report to compile statistical report and I can check the business records to see how many of these ‘invisible” Asians are doing well in business in this neighborhood. My point is : your observation, like the good professor in based on a personal observation, not statistical evidence. How in the world is it possible that no single non-Indian, after 23 years has gotten rich under the PPP?

This is Yet everywhere you see the old and the new elites are Indians. Even T-shirts vendors building malls.

I am going to assume that this statement is a desperate attempt to confirm Hinds point.

 

Unless you are plainly stupid you will grasp that democracy is built around a stable well articulated and closely networked elite. They would sontaneously grow across the racial demographics if the democracy is organized around deliberation and discussion across the spectrum of the society. This elite is the social cement for progress and the only means to successful development of the society.When that elite is of one class, tribe, or ethnic group you have a dysfunctional democracy and it will inevitably decay into a dictatorship.

These statements may be true of the PPP. But the way its written, they could also be true of the PNC era before 1992. You seem to forget that Guyana history started many years back when the PNC had a deliberate policy of setting up a dictatorship, as well as an ethnic state, in which according to Clive Thomas, more than 80% of the economy was owned by the state….and who controlled the state??. The PPP simple continued in that tradition and ran a further deteriorated state. Lets be fair about this.

Take a look in our world today. Syria, Iraq...all have fractured elites; vertically segmented by tribes and horizontally divided by religious sects. Saddam did not build anything. His Baathist group were Sinis who deliberately subjugated other groups. Libya, was deliberately left tribal by Qaddafi. With him gone no summoning creed to weld the tribal enclaves into a whole. Syria is also similarly supported by a small sect who assumed all power to the detriment of others. The intolerable segmentation and dis-empowerment ultimately caused that society to explode.

Not sure what you are blabbering about here. You comparing sticks and berries…Guyana has its own unique problems

 

Hinds similarly chastise the APNU for their lack of transparency, lack of inclusiveness and myopia. Granger created this monstrous Presidential Ministry with satellites ministries projecting from the center from which every management decision radiate. He is reproducing the same PPP structure and this time it will be even more devastating for us given he will have the means to create an African elite class tens of times more rich and powerful than you can ever envision.

I agree that the black elite may become more filthy rich than any PPP member or supporter. However, you miss the point. Hinds agenda is an Afrocentric one. He wants to justify a redistribution of the state resources and empower Afros. He does not believe the govt is going far enough. In his mindset, Indians have nothing to ask for. So what about the majority of Indians who live in the hinterland, outside GT whose lives are dependent on cash crops and seasonal employment?

The problem with this position, as I said before, is that inevitably the Indians will perceive all actions by the current govt as based on racism against Indians. So my question to you and Hinds: How do the leaders tackle this problem in society and move forward? The PNC did not tackle it, the PPP did not have a solution and the current PNC-led government does not have a plan to convince the MAJORITY of Indians that its policy is not based on race.

What I am suggesting is that leaders (in government and opposition) must agree on some plan or formula for addressing this problem. Otherwise, the same issue will come up again if and when the PPP gets into office…because Guyana’s racial problems are not going away anytime soon.

Hinds has said some things that makes sense, but some of his utterances are way out of line.

You should first not break the post up by cryptic and stupid queries if you want to arrive at understanding. I do not have to affirm Hinds post. It is self affirming. My mention of the T shirt vendor is also self evident. Here is an uneducated  drug hustler becoming an elite informing you the rise did not come from industrious and creative investments but corruption and crony capitalism.

My mention of syria etc was to afford you a broader vision of the potential for internal disaster when the intellectual, entrepreneurial, managerial, governmental, security structure from which a national elite emerge is not  demographically represented in the system chaos develops.

Lambasting Hinds for his serious assessment of Indian racism in action is not going to help clarify anything or accrue to a well written criticism by you. It simply reifies that the racism and intellectual blindness in the indian community is sickeningly pervasive .

The PPP were tasked to transition us into a democracy. Instead they hardened the old dictatorial constitution by defending it at every level and asserting that it is valid. Their pocket judges in the courts fortified that belief into legal precedence. The present APNU now have a free hand to ride the wave of an autocratic system to constitute something a hundred times the size of the PPP. Note they did not spread the wealth beyond their friends and family.

Our economy is  slated to increase some 20 times its size and hundreds of times its economic power. It will all be concentrated in the hands of a very few with whatever percolating down reaching indians after being slopped up by mainly one ethnic group. Then you will build a statue to Hinds and wish you were his convert.

Nehru posted:
D2 posted:
FC posted:

You won't because you are devoid of class!!!!

he is in a class by himself! in mathematics you call it the empty set

As stated above both of you are JACKASSES, not that you will know. FILTH HEADS simply do not know anything but being STUPID. A FOOL like Hinds love dumb, stupid and naive FOOLS like you 2!!!!!!!!!

One only has to read posts like this and know they are dealing with a low functioning neanderthal. It is what makes the board a wasteland for want of sane contribution. As I stated. a f.icking empty set, {}

To wallow in the past will get Guyana nowhere. Hinds should be talking to the PNC on how to move on.

Hinds has been in the rot for decades now. He obviously is not the voice in the wlderness. And has been with the goons for a very long time, in away, he helped in making the PPP the way they are. Lets not forget, since 1992, Blacks were never appreciative of a coolie government.

Guyana is a divided land. Even opinions are biased along anti-Indian lines. 

seignet posted:

To wallow in the past will get Guyana nowhere. Hinds should be talking to the PNC on how to move on.

Hinds has been in the rot for decades now. He obviously is not the voice in the wlderness. And has been with the goons for a very long time, in away, he helped in making the PPP the way they are. Lets not forget, since 1992, Blacks were never appreciative of a coolie government.

Guyana is a divided land. Even opinions are biased along anti-Indian lines. 

They are implementing the RACIST Burnham playbook, this time 100 times worse.

Hinds is one of those racist scums, he is igniting the racist PNC fire.

The racist PNC code word for identifying Indos is code word PPP. They think that Indos are stupid.

seignet posted:

To wallow in the past will get Guyana nowhere. Hinds should be talking to the PNC on how to move on.

Hinds has been in the rot for decades now. He obviously is not the voice in the wlderness. And has been with the goons for a very long time, in away, he helped in making the PPP the way they are. Lets not forget, since 1992, Blacks were never appreciative of a coolie government.

Guyana is a divided land. Even opinions are biased along anti-Indian lines. 

He does that everyday. He has not taken a position with them but is a gadfly commenting on them. When he was getting jailed and beaten up by burnham where were you? Re read your last sentence and you will see the bias.

D2 posted:
VishMahabir posted:

I am taking a course on ethnic politics at Queens College and some of these issues ring a bell…so here are my comments.

Just look about you. There are no rich black elite from the PPP tenure.

Banna, we are not dealing in trivialities or anecdotal evidence…looking around me does not do anything for me. When I look around me in my neighborhood all I see a lot of white people who own a lot of businesses and have a lot of cars in their driveways. However, I also know that there are a lot of Asians in my neighborhood who are doing quite well. I can use the US census tract report to compile statistical report and I can check the business records to see how many of these ‘invisible” Asians are doing well in business in this neighborhood. My point is : your observation, like the good professor in based on a personal observation, not statistical evidence. How in the world is it possible that no single non-Indian, after 23 years has gotten rich under the PPP?

This is Yet everywhere you see the old and the new elites are Indians. Even T-shirts vendors building malls.

I am going to assume that this statement is a desperate attempt to confirm Hinds point.

 

Unless you are plainly stupid you will grasp that democracy is built around a stable well articulated and closely networked elite. They would sontaneously grow across the racial demographics if the democracy is organized around deliberation and discussion across the spectrum of the society. This elite is the social cement for progress and the only means to successful development of the society.When that elite is of one class, tribe, or ethnic group you have a dysfunctional democracy and it will inevitably decay into a dictatorship.

These statements may be true of the PPP. But the way its written, they could also be true of the PNC era before 1992. You seem to forget that Guyana history started many years back when the PNC had a deliberate policy of setting up a dictatorship, as well as an ethnic state, in which according to Clive Thomas, more than 80% of the economy was owned by the state….and who controlled the state??. The PPP simple continued in that tradition and ran a further deteriorated state. Lets be fair about this.

Take a look in our world today. Syria, Iraq...all have fractured elites; vertically segmented by tribes and horizontally divided by religious sects. Saddam did not build anything. His Baathist group were Sinis who deliberately subjugated other groups. Libya, was deliberately left tribal by Qaddafi. With him gone no summoning creed to weld the tribal enclaves into a whole. Syria is also similarly supported by a small sect who assumed all power to the detriment of others. The intolerable segmentation and dis-empowerment ultimately caused that society to explode.

Not sure what you are blabbering about here. You comparing sticks and berries…Guyana has its own unique problems

 

Hinds similarly chastise the APNU for their lack of transparency, lack of inclusiveness and myopia. Granger created this monstrous Presidential Ministry with satellites ministries projecting from the center from which every management decision radiate. He is reproducing the same PPP structure and this time it will be even more devastating for us given he will have the means to create an African elite class tens of times more rich and powerful than you can ever envision.

I agree that the black elite may become more filthy rich than any PPP member or supporter. However, you miss the point. Hinds agenda is an Afrocentric one. He wants to justify a redistribution of the state resources and empower Afros. He does not believe the govt is going far enough. In his mindset, Indians have nothing to ask for. So what about the majority of Indians who live in the hinterland, outside GT whose lives are dependent on cash crops and seasonal employment?

The problem with this position, as I said before, is that inevitably the Indians will perceive all actions by the current govt as based on racism against Indians. So my question to you and Hinds: How do the leaders tackle this problem in society and move forward? The PNC did not tackle it, the PPP did not have a solution and the current PNC-led government does not have a plan to convince the MAJORITY of Indians that its policy is not based on race.

What I am suggesting is that leaders (in government and opposition) must agree on some plan or formula for addressing this problem. Otherwise, the same issue will come up again if and when the PPP gets into office…because Guyana’s racial problems are not going away anytime soon.

Hinds has said some things that makes sense, but some of his utterances are way out of line.

You should first not break the post up by cryptic and stupid queries if you want to arrive at understanding. I do not have to affirm Hinds post. It is self affirming. My mention of the T shirt vendor is also self evident. Here is an uneducated  drug hustler becoming an elite informing you the rise did not come from industrious and creative investments but corruption and crony capitalism.

My mention of syria etc was to afford you a broader vision of the potential for internal disaster when the intellectual, entrepreneurial, managerial, governmental, security structure from which a national elite emerge is not  demographically represented in the system chaos develops.

Lambasting Hinds for his serious assessment of Indian racism in action is not going to help clarify anything or accrue to a well written criticism by you. It simply reifies that the racism and intellectual blindness in the indian community is sickeningly pervasive .

The PPP were tasked to transition us into a democracy. Instead they hardened the old dictatorial constitution by defending it at every level and asserting that it is valid. Their pocket judges in the courts fortified that belief into legal precedence. The present APNU now have a free hand to ride the wave of an autocratic system to constitute something a hundred times the size of the PPP. Note they did not spread the wealth beyond their friends and family.

Our economy is  slated to increase some 20 times its size and hundreds of times its economic power. It will all be concentrated in the hands of a very few with whatever percolating down reaching indians after being slopped up by mainly one ethnic group. Then you will build a statue to Hinds and wish you were his convert.

This is such a jaundiced view that it confirms a reality that is pervasive in your response and in Guyana...namely that Indians are racists, devious and are out to enslave Blacks.

Nothing about Hinds (a person who rejected the fact that  Nagamootoo should be given the PM post!) hidden agenda in your pontificating response.

...Guyana, according to world bank and other reports cannot experience a democratic culture unless the race problem is addressed.

Notwithstanding Hinds other comments,  my question still stands: How do the PNC continue to defend the fact that mainly Indians are being relieved of their positions, and how do we convince Indians that they are not targets and what is being done is fair and just? Or do we simply continue to assume that ALL of them are wicked and devious thieves?

I suppose this would be comparable to the Affirmative Action debate in this country. When is there going to be a level playing field? Or do we continue ad infinitum to preference one group over the other?

I reiterate what seems to fly over your head:  Guyananese leaders (including PPP ones) need to work together to devise a formula that will address this and the other issues raised Hinds.

Simple accusing all Indians as PPP supporters and as parasites and exploiters will not cut it.

 

D2 posted:
yuji22 posted:

Another racist Afrocentric Jackass brays.

Jackass Hinds

 

You are such a dumb ass that you do not even recognize the deep shit the PPP has left us in. And you calling Hinds a jackass is indeed a laugh. From what you write, your delivery etc high-school is the best you know of academia. He has a doctorate and taught at a few universities so at least he grasp something about thinking.

His academic qualifications do not prevent him lying.

D2 posted:
seignet posted:

To wallow in the past will get Guyana nowhere. Hinds should be talking to the PNC on how to move on.

Hinds has been in the rot for decades now. He obviously is not the voice in the wlderness. And has been with the goons for a very long time, in away, he helped in making the PPP the way they are. Lets not forget, since 1992, Blacks were never appreciative of a coolie government.

Guyana is a divided land. Even opinions are biased along anti-Indian lines. 

He does that everyday. He has not taken a position with them but is a gadfly commenting on them. When he was getting jailed and beaten up by burnham where were you? Re read your last sentence and you will see the bias.

If Hinds is for Guyana, then are so many things he could do for Guyana. Instead, he continually speaks of race issues. He seems to nuture it.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
D2 posted:
yuji22 posted:

Another racist Afrocentric Jackass brays.

Jackass Hinds

 

You are such a dumb ass that you do not even recognize the deep shit the PPP has left us in. And you calling Hinds a jackass is indeed a laugh. From what you write, your delivery etc high-school is the best you know of academia. He has a doctorate and taught at a few universities so at least he grasp something about thinking.

His academic qualifications do not prevent him lying.

You need to illustrate that but you do not have a leg to stand on.  I bet you will be yammering night and day as the APNU begin to consolidate power and launch their own elite creation scheme.

VishMahabir posted:
D2 posted:
VishMahabir posted:

I am taking a course on ethnic politics at Queens College and some of these issues ring a bell…so here are my comments.

Just look about you. There are no rich black elite from the PPP tenure.

Banna, we are not dealing in trivialities or anecdotal evidence…looking around me does not do anything for me. When I look around me in my neighborhood all I see a lot of white people who own a lot of businesses and have a lot of cars in their driveways. However, I also know that there are a lot of Asians in my neighborhood who are doing quite well. I can use the US census tract report to compile statistical report and I can check the business records to see how many of these ‘invisible” Asians are doing well in business in this neighborhood. My point is : your observation, like the good professor in based on a personal observation, not statistical evidence. How in the world is it possible that no single non-Indian, after 23 years has gotten rich under the PPP?

This is Yet everywhere you see the old and the new elites are Indians. Even T-shirts vendors building malls.

I am going to assume that this statement is a desperate attempt to confirm Hinds point.

 

Unless you are plainly stupid you will grasp that democracy is built around a stable well articulated and closely networked elite. They would sontaneously grow across the racial demographics if the democracy is organized around deliberation and discussion across the spectrum of the society. This elite is the social cement for progress and the only means to successful development of the society.When that elite is of one class, tribe, or ethnic group you have a dysfunctional democracy and it will inevitably decay into a dictatorship.

These statements may be true of the PPP. But the way its written, they could also be true of the PNC era before 1992. You seem to forget that Guyana history started many years back when the PNC had a deliberate policy of setting up a dictatorship, as well as an ethnic state, in which according to Clive Thomas, more than 80% of the economy was owned by the state….and who controlled the state??. The PPP simple continued in that tradition and ran a further deteriorated state. Lets be fair about this.

Take a look in our world today. Syria, Iraq...all have fractured elites; vertically segmented by tribes and horizontally divided by religious sects. Saddam did not build anything. His Baathist group were Sinis who deliberately subjugated other groups. Libya, was deliberately left tribal by Qaddafi. With him gone no summoning creed to weld the tribal enclaves into a whole. Syria is also similarly supported by a small sect who assumed all power to the detriment of others. The intolerable segmentation and dis-empowerment ultimately caused that society to explode.

Not sure what you are blabbering about here. You comparing sticks and berries…Guyana has its own unique problems

 

Hinds similarly chastise the APNU for their lack of transparency, lack of inclusiveness and myopia. Granger created this monstrous Presidential Ministry with satellites ministries projecting from the center from which every management decision radiate. He is reproducing the same PPP structure and this time it will be even more devastating for us given he will have the means to create an African elite class tens of times more rich and powerful than you can ever envision.

I agree that the black elite may become more filthy rich than any PPP member or supporter. However, you miss the point. Hinds agenda is an Afrocentric one. He wants to justify a redistribution of the state resources and empower Afros. He does not believe the govt is going far enough. In his mindset, Indians have nothing to ask for. So what about the majority of Indians who live in the hinterland, outside GT whose lives are dependent on cash crops and seasonal employment?

The problem with this position, as I said before, is that inevitably the Indians will perceive all actions by the current govt as based on racism against Indians. So my question to you and Hinds: How do the leaders tackle this problem in society and move forward? The PNC did not tackle it, the PPP did not have a solution and the current PNC-led government does not have a plan to convince the MAJORITY of Indians that its policy is not based on race.

What I am suggesting is that leaders (in government and opposition) must agree on some plan or formula for addressing this problem. Otherwise, the same issue will come up again if and when the PPP gets into office…because Guyana’s racial problems are not going away anytime soon.

Hinds has said some things that makes sense, but some of his utterances are way out of line.

You should first not break the post up by cryptic and stupid queries if you want to arrive at understanding. I do not have to affirm Hinds post. It is self affirming. My mention of the T shirt vendor is also self evident. Here is an uneducated  drug hustler becoming an elite informing you the rise did not come from industrious and creative investments but corruption and crony capitalism.

My mention of syria etc was to afford you a broader vision of the potential for internal disaster when the intellectual, entrepreneurial, managerial, governmental, security structure from which a national elite emerge is not  demographically represented in the system chaos develops.

Lambasting Hinds for his serious assessment of Indian racism in action is not going to help clarify anything or accrue to a well written criticism by you. It simply reifies that the racism and intellectual blindness in the indian community is sickeningly pervasive .

The PPP were tasked to transition us into a democracy. Instead they hardened the old dictatorial constitution by defending it at every level and asserting that it is valid. Their pocket judges in the courts fortified that belief into legal precedence. The present APNU now have a free hand to ride the wave of an autocratic system to constitute something a hundred times the size of the PPP. Note they did not spread the wealth beyond their friends and family.

Our economy is  slated to increase some 20 times its size and hundreds of times its economic power. It will all be concentrated in the hands of a very few with whatever percolating down reaching indians after being slopped up by mainly one ethnic group. Then you will build a statue to Hinds and wish you were his convert.

This is such a jaundiced view that it confirms a reality that is pervasive in your response and in Guyana...namely that Indians are racists, devious and are out to enslave Blacks.

Nothing about Hinds (a person who rejected the fact that  Nagamootoo should be given the PM post!) hidden agenda in your pontificating response.

...Guyana, according to world bank and other reports cannot experience a democratic culture unless the race problem is addressed.

Notwithstanding Hinds other comments,  my question still stands: How do the PNC continue to defend the fact that mainly Indians are being relieved of their positions, and how do we convince Indians that they are not targets and what is being done is fair and just? Or do we simply continue to assume that ALL of them are wicked and devious thieves?

I suppose this would be comparable to the Affirmative Action debate in this country. When is there going to be a level playing field? Or do we continue ad infinitum to preference one group over the other?

I reiterate what seems to fly over your head:  Guyananese leaders (including PPP ones) need to work together to devise a formula that will address this and the other issues raised Hinds.

Simple accusing all Indians as PPP supporters and as parasites and exploiters will not cut it.

 

Indians are racists. There is no denying that. Theirs is the only culture in Guyana that has cultural prohibitions that are strictly enforced through normative practices.  The acerbic rantings here about black man not having the mental aptitude to do anything validated that in the vernacular. Here we have labels like dirty indians PNC goons a ready labels to any Indian who do not toe the racist line.  Every other post here is to that end. Check the thread creation. It is always the PNC doing this or that to indians when the same was absent in the PPP friends and family era.

The reaching for affirmative action as a comparison again illustrates the entrenched racist crap that percolates in your heads. There is hardly a comparison between blacks in Guyana and here. You for example are in the category of minorities here even if you do not self identify. Much of what affirmative action has helped you here from housing to, banking to prohibiting red lining to distribution system etd. Do you know that no non white person distributed pepsi and coke and other products generally as late as 84? You are just spewing you own rancid racism when you take yourself outside the reality of what is affirmed here in the US. Your very presence here is affirmed because others died

seignet posted:
D2 posted:
seignet posted:

To wallow in the past will get Guyana nowhere. Hinds should be talking to the PNC on how to move on.

Hinds has been in the rot for decades now. He obviously is not the voice in the wlderness. And has been with the goons for a very long time, in away, he helped in making the PPP the way they are. Lets not forget, since 1992, Blacks were never appreciative of a coolie government.

Guyana is a divided land. Even opinions are biased along anti-Indian lines. 

He does that everyday. He has not taken a position with them but is a gadfly commenting on them. When he was getting jailed and beaten up by burnham where were you? Re read your last sentence and you will see the bias.

If Hinds is for Guyana, then are so many things he could do for Guyana. Instead, he continually speaks of race issues. He seems to nuture it.

He speaks for both sides. As I noted earlier, he is the seminal black voice against he APNU regime.  Be thankful

Nehru posted:

BE THANKFUL?? YOU BLOODY BE THANKFUL FOR THE PIWARI AND CASSAVE BREAD THE pnc GIVING fools LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Your bigotry cannot conceive of anyone thinking for themselves. No I am no friend of the APNU. I just do not want the PPP in office for a long time. I am sure the APNU will steal their fill but it is good payback for the PPP idiots who would not listen, did not care when we warned that they could endanger their party if the other side wins. They never thought they would ever lose and so refused all dire warnings to reform the system. Now they will know what they were warned about.

And your racist behind will be speaking of piwari for until your pathetic ass is in the grave. It does not bother me no less than last week weather forecast.

What an IGNORANT way of thinking. Knowing the PNC is worst BUt still want them instead of the PPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is quite sure of the PNC thiefing and bullying but you know what, let the PNC have ultimate POWER.  If that is not IGNORANCE at the highest level, then there is no ignorance on this planet!!!!!!!!!!

D2 posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
D2 posted:
yuji22 posted:

Another racist Afrocentric Jackass brays.

Jackass Hinds

 

You are such a dumb ass that you do not even recognize the deep shit the PPP has left us in. And you calling Hinds a jackass is indeed a laugh. From what you write, your delivery etc high-school is the best you know of academia. He has a doctorate and taught at a few universities so at least he grasp something about thinking.

His academic qualifications do not prevent him lying.

You need to illustrate that but you do not have a leg to stand on.  I bet you will be yammering night and day as the APNU begin to consolidate power and launch their own elite creation scheme.

You have a big mouth on this forum but it amounts to nothing since you have developed your abilities to lie constantly in defense of a government that has betrayed not just a nation, but their partner in crime, the AFC.  Why don't you elaborate on what David Hinds writing?  The WPA's fight for the black support turned out to be a fiasco. If the party of Walter Rodney failed to get the black support then something is wrong somewhere with these people. Why bash the PPP for not getting their support?  If the PPP failed to win their support because they are "racist" then how do you or Hinds explain their reluctance to support the WPA? 

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
D2 posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
D2 posted:
yuji22 posted:

Another racist Afrocentric Jackass brays.

Jackass Hinds

 

You are such a dumb ass that you do not even recognize the deep shit the PPP has left us in. And you calling Hinds a jackass is indeed a laugh. From what you write, your delivery etc high-school is the best you know of academia. He has a doctorate and taught at a few universities so at least he grasp something about thinking.

His academic qualifications do not prevent him lying.

You need to illustrate that but you do not have a leg to stand on.  I bet you will be yammering night and day as the APNU begin to consolidate power and launch their own elite creation scheme.

You have a big mouth on this forum but it amounts to nothing since you have developed your abilities to lie constantly in defense of a government that has betrayed not just a nation, but their partner in crime, the AFC.  Why don't you elaborate on what David Hinds writing?  The WPA's fight for the black support turned out to be a fiasco. If the party of Walter Rodney failed to get the black support then something is wrong somewhere with these people. Why bash the PPP for not getting their support?  If the PPP failed to win their support because they are "racist" then how do you or Hinds explain their reluctance to support the WPA? 

What's wrong with you Billy? The man even knows Adolf Hitler and maybe John Kennedy. Standby for more breaking news as to the rest of the world's leaders he has "rubbed shoulders with".

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
D2 posted:

You have a big mouth on this forum but it amounts to nothing since you have developed your abilities to lie constantly in defense of a government that has betrayed not just a nation, but their partner in crime, the AFC.  Why don't you elaborate on what David Hinds writing?  The WPA's fight for the black support turned out to be a fiasco. If the party of Walter Rodney failed to get the black support then something is wrong somewhere with these people. Why bash the PPP for not getting their support?  If the PPP failed to win their support because they are "racist" then how do you or Hinds explain their reluctance to support the WPA? 

There is not one post here that you can find that illustrate I support the government. What you will find instead is commentary that they will do as the PPP did and it is all the PPP's fault. They refused to concede the dictatorial powers of t he constitution is to the detriment of all. What is there to elaborate on over a thousand words by the gentleman. The WPA's failure to cull African votes is no less for similar reasons that the UF or any of a dozen or more did not get any....ethnic polarization and consolidation of votes to the party of their choice least the vote is "wasted."  The PPP failed to win African votes because they did not listen or paid attention w hen they claimed marginalization. Instead they launched Misir and his hundred page statistical miasma to repudiate their claims and insist then neg.roes are in their designated place.

Nehru posted:

What an IGNORANT way of thinking. Knowing the PNC is worst BUt still want them instead of the PPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is quite sure of the PNC thiefing and bullying but you know what, let the PNC have ultimate POWER.  If that is not IGNORANCE at the highest level, then there is no ignorance on this planet!!!!!!!!!!

It is only ignorant is you do not grasp the need to change a zero sum proposition. One cannot continue to play chicken. They payoff is in living and a penalty exerted to the hard headed one as is now extracted on the PPP

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