Not a Sermon only a Thought

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

Extremely weak response. Again not answering the question. See what I meant when I states that you haven't answered the questions.

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

 

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

“Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross.

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer.

 

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?                                 

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

Extremely weak response. Again not answering the question. See what I meant when I states that you haven't answered the questions.

Answer: Yes/No was Ishmael present when God told Abraham "take thy only son"? Answer it might set you free. I am asking you a question to help you answer your own question. ��

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

Answer: Explain the verses you quote us, please. When you do, then I will answer.

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

“Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Answer Jesus was talking to a scribe who wished to follow Jesus and become a disciple. In fact, the scribe boasted, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" (Matthew 8:19–20; Luke 9:57–58).

These same passages mention two others who had similar discussions with Jesus. In each case, Jesus made the point that there is a cost to following Him. The scribe who said he wanted to follow Jesus wherever He went was not considering the lifestyle Jesus led. Our Lord was functionally homeless; He and His disciples stayed in the homes of those who would take them in (see Luke 10:6–8). The scribes were among the wealthier citizens. It was as if Jesus were saying, "Are you sure you want to be homeless with Me?" Even the animals have a place to stay foxes have holes and the birds have nests—but Jesus literally had “nowhere to lay his head." He wanted the scribe to truly count the cost of what he was proposing. It is always wise to count the cost (Luke 14:28).

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross.

Answer: You lack understanding of what you care not to read. I will not wast time on this again. 

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer.

Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?                                 

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

Extremely weak response. Again not answering the question. See what I meant when I states that you haven't answered the questions.

Answer: Yes/No was Ishmael present when God told Abraham "take thy only son"? Answer it might set you free. I am asking you a question to help you answer your own question. ��

Present as in the same room, house, city, country? Does a person loses their status as a man's son if they are not in the same room, house, city, country? That is as silly an argument as any. Who dreamed up this doozie?

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
 

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

 

Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26

Answer: Explain the verses you quote us, please. When you do, then I will answer.

 

What is there to explain? In the passage Jesus scoffed at a woman because she was not Jewish. His disciples pleaded with him because they were afraid that she will bring bad omen on them.
Then he got even more belligerent with his comment about giving the children's bread and giving it to dogs. He called her a dog. I cited this to demonstrate his ill manners and that is exactly what it demonstrated.
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

 

“Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

Answer Jesus was talking to a scribe who wished to follow Jesus and become a disciple. In fact, the scribe boasted, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" (Matthew 8:19–20; Luke 9:57–58).

These same passages mention two others who had similar discussions with Jesus. In each case, Jesus made the point that there is a cost to following Him. The scribe who said he wanted to follow Jesus wherever He went was not considering the lifestyle Jesus led. Our Lord was functionally homeless; He and His disciples stayed in the homes of those who would take them in (see Luke 10:6–8). The scribes were among the wealthier citizens. It was as if Jesus were saying, "Are you sure you want to be homeless with Me?" Even the animals have a place to stay foxes have holes and the birds have nests—but Jesus literally had “nowhere to lay his head." He wanted the scribe to truly count the cost of what he was proposing. It is always wise to count the cost (Luke 14:28).

 

 

Now you try to connect Jesus' comment with what preceded and followed it and see if the only explanation is Jesus' self absorption. Like how trump is.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

 

So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross.

Answer: You lack understanding of what you care not to read. I will not wast time on this again.

It may disappoint you but I don't lack understanding of what I read at all. What I do have is the unwillingness to follow anything blindly. Any God with the imperfections and deficiencies and plain old silliness of Jesus isn't worth one's time or effort.

 

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer.

Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?

  

God is talking about two whoring sisters who like their nipples and vaginas tickled and pressed. Who also like their men to have penises as large as horses with huge ejaculations. What is your opinion?

Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

ksazma posted: "4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?"

Keith posted: "Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18."

ksazma quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

Keith responed: "The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus."

ksazma posted: "So Jesus has to ask God why He has forsaken him just because of Psalm 22? Wasn't Jesus God enough to understand that while man may lose faith and trust in God, he as God couldn't do the same? Why does the God of the Bible insist on doing things that make no sense?

Secondly, Jesus was quite pissed when his disciples failed to watch the garden thereby causing him to be caught. He wasn't preparing to give up his life. He was hoping to hide out in that garden until his pursuers go away. What kind of God feel physical pain and loses faith in his Creator? Imagine he wondering if he will get caught or not when he was supposed to already know that he will be caught and hung on the cross."

Keith posted: "Answer: You lack understanding of what you care not to read. I will not wast time on this again."

ksazma posted: "It may disappoint you but I don't lack understanding of what I read at all. What I do have is the unwillingness to follow anything blindly. Any God with the imperfections and deficiencies and plain old silliness of Jesus isn't worth one's time or effort."

Answer: No it doesn't disappoint me at all especially when there is a consistance of it. In reference to following blindly, you seem to be brining it up quit often and I could make the same claim about you as well. Trust me you really don't want to hit on that talking point right now, we have other things to clear up first. We will get to it eventually.

skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

you tell them professor,there is no more any meteorite the ppp thief them all

skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

No need for me to waste time responding to you therefore run along and  talk to Stephen Hawkins and the others.

ksazma posted: "Actually, it is Jesus' values and beliefs.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"


Keith posted: "Answer: Explain the verses you quote us, please. When you do, then I will answer."

ksazma posted: "What is there to explain? In the passage Jesus scoffed at a woman because she was not Jewish. His disciples pleaded with him because they were afraid that she will bring bad omen on them.

Then he got even more belligerent with his comment about giving the children's bread and giving it to dogs. He called her a dog. I cited this to demonstrate his ill manners and that is exactly what it demonstrated."

Answer: In the above mention scripture you quoted lets summarize a bit for those who are looking on, Jesus encounter this Canaanite woman who begs Him to cure her daughter. Jesus initially refuses her request by saying, "It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs" (Matthew 15:26). Was that an insult? No, Jesus is creating a metaphor meant to explain the priorities of His ministry. He is also teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Jews during Jesus’ day sometimes referred to Gentiles, Gentiles are you and me, those who are not Jews, as dogs. Us  Non-Jews were considered so unspiritual that even being in their presence could make a person ceremonially unclean, read John 18:28 just don't take my word for it. Much of Jesus’ ministry, however, involved turning expectations and prejudices on their heads you will find that in Matthew 11:19; John 4:9–10 to support my statement. According to Matthew’s narrative, Jesus left Israel and went into Tyre and Sidon, which was Gentile territory. When the Canaanite woman approached and repeatedly asked for healing, the disciples were annoyed, and asked Jesus to send her away, so clearly we see the frustration by the disciples and not bad omen as my friend ksazma you put it.

At this point, Jesus explained His current ministry in a way that both the woman and the watching disciples could understand. At that time, His duty was to the people of Israel, not to the Gentiles (Matthew 15:24). Recklessly taking His attention from Israel, in violation of His mission, would be like a father taking food from his children in order to throw it to their pets (Matthews 15:26).

What important here for you to know ksazma is that Jesus frequently tested people to prove their intentions, often through response questions or challenges, in John 4:16–18; and 4:50–53. His response to the Canaanite woman is similar. In testing her, Jesus declined her request and explained that she had no legitimate expectation of His help. The woman, however, lived out the principle Jesus Himself taught in the parable of the persistent widow in Luke 18:1–8. Her response proved that she understood fully what Jesus was saying, yet had enough conviction to ask anyway in Matthew 15:27. Jesus acknowledged her faith calling it "great" and granted her request in Matthew 15:28 as show below.

Matthew 15:27-28: "27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Keith posted:

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Yuh right bai. Jesus didn't call the woman a dog. Maybe it is indeed a language thing. English was not supposed to be so difficult. Maybe it is not the language but rather the holy spirit.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"

Keith posted:

 

ksazma posted: "It may disappoint you but I don't lack understanding of what I read at all. What I do have is the unwillingness to follow anything blindly. Any God with the imperfections and deficiencies and plain old silliness of Jesus isn't worth one's time or effort."

Answer: No it doesn't disappoint me at all especially when there is a consistance of it. In reference to following blindly, you seem to be brining it up quit often and I could make the same claim about you as well. Trust me you really don't want to hit on that talking point right now, we have other things to clear up first. We will get to it eventually.

The consistency is how many instances throughout the New Testament, Jesus proves he has no clue what is going on. Isn't God supposed to be All Knowing?

warrior posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Keith posted:

What a beautiful day the Lord has made, let us all rejoice and be thankful.

What makes you think your lord has made this day? Would your lord correct the orbit of the moon if a large meteorite happen to hit and throw it out of it's orbit? You do know that the moon keeps the earth in a regular orbit, or this is news to you?

you tell them professor,there is no more any meteorite the ppp thief them all

Is a good thing the PPP stole dem meteorites Warria or else dem Coalition would have destroyed them. One can always recover stolen stuff. Destroyed stuff is gone fuh channa.

ksazma posted: "5. Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are."

Keith posted: "Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read."

ksazma posted: "Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer."

Keith posted: "Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?"

ksazma posted: "God is talking about two whoring sisters who like their nipples and vaginas tickled and pressed. Who also like their men to have penises as large as horses with huge ejaculations. What is your opinion?"

Answer: Now ksazma here is why I have been saying again and again that you read yet don't understanding what yo are reading.

Allow me to post the entire Chapter of Ezekiel 23 so others can have a understanding of what we are discussing here and there I will explain after in details.

Ezekiel 23: "1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God."

Explanation: Aholah and Aholibah are symbolic names for the kingdom of Israel, the ten tribes in the north and the kingdom of Judah, the two tribes in the south. Ezekiel 23 describes the spiritual infidelity of Israel and Judah, picturing them as two sisters.

Ezekiel refers to Aholah and Aholibah and identifies them as Samaria the capital of Israel and Jerusalem the capital of Judah in Ezekiel 23:4. The sisters are "daughters of the same mother" (verse 2) because Israel and Judah were originally one nation, Israel. The meanings of two names have special significance. Aholah means "her own tent or tabernacle", Samaria had a separate worship-place apart from the temple in Jerusalem. Aholibah means "my tabernacle is in her" this represents Jerusalem, where God did establish worship.

Both Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) engaged in prostitution, spiritual infidelity in Egypt in their youth (Ezekiel 23:3). The older sister, Aholah (Israel), later played the harlot with the Assyrians in verses 5–8. That is, Samaria and Israel had sought fulfillment and security by aligning themselves with idolatrous Assyria. The punishment of Aholah fit her crime, "Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword" in verses 9–10. Israel was conquered and her people deported to Assyria, you will find reference to this in 2 Kings 17. The Assyrians were the instruments God used to inflict His judgments upon Israel.

In Ezekiel 23:11–21, Ezekiel portrays the younger sister, Aholibah (Judah), as even more corrupt and promiscuous than Aholah (Israel). Rather than learning from her sister’s mistakes, Aholibah craved after the Babylonian idols and then the Chaldean lifestyle, committing spiritual prostitution with the Babylonians. Because of Jerusalem’s and Judah’s idolatries God alienated Himself from them and allowed them, too, to be taken into captivity: "I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards. I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury" as stated in verses 24–25. Aholibah (Judah) had learned nothing from her sister’s (Israel) and Judah finally fell to Babylon.

The rest of Ezekiel 23 outlines the details of the two nations’ spiritual infidelity and the punishment they received from God. "Your enemies will deal with you in hatred and take away everything you have worked for. They will leave you stark naked, and the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your lewdness and promiscuity have brought this on you, because you lusted after the nations and defiled yourself with their idols", that's in verses 29–30. Among the detestable practices committed by Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) were sacrificing their children to idols and profaning the sanctuary of God in verses 37–38.

The lesson of Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) is that God is a jealous God who punishes those who turn their backs on Him and chase after idols. Though God is patient and long-suffering, eventually His judgment falls on the unfaithful. We reap what we sow according to Galatians 6:7. "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution" (Ezekiel 23:35).

So my friend ksazma Ezekiel 23 is talking about Israel and Judah, I know you just couldn't understand what you were reading even though it clearly said it in the first few verses in Ezekiel 23:4.

"
And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah."

A bit of history for you here, Samaria was an ancient city in the land of Israel and Jerusalem is a city located on a plateau in the Judean mountains. Make sure you understand what you are reading before challenging me my friend.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Yuh right bai. Jesus didn't call the woman a dog. Maybe it is indeed a language thing. English was not supposed to be so difficult. Maybe it is not the language but rather the holy spirit.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"


The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly.

Keith posted:

ksazma posted: "5. Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are."

Keith posted: "Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only proceed with my opinion if you have understanding of what you read."

ksazma posted: "Perhaps you missed above that I asked you this question. Still waiting for your answer since your effort above is NOT an answer."

Keith posted: "Answer: Perhaps you missed where I asked if you understand what you are reading before I can proceed to explain. Again, Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23?"

ksazma posted: "God is talking about two whoring sisters who like their nipples and vaginas tickled and pressed. Who also like their men to have penises as large as horses with huge ejaculations. What is your opinion?"

Answer: Now ksazma here is why I have been saying again and again that you read yet don't understanding what yo are reading.

Allow me to post the entire Chapter of Ezekiel 23 so others can have a understanding of what we are discussing here and there I will explain after in details.

Ezekiel 23: "1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,

14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:

16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.

17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;

23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.

24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:

29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.

32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.

33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;

37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,

41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.

42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?

44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.

47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.

49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God."

Explanation: Aholah and Aholibah are symbolic names for the kingdom of Israel, the ten tribes in the north and the kingdom of Judah, the two tribes in the south. Ezekiel 23 describes the spiritual infidelity of Israel and Judah, picturing them as two sisters.

Ezekiel refers to Aholah and Aholibah and identifies them as Samaria the capital of Israel and Jerusalem the capital of Judah in Ezekiel 23:4. The sisters are "daughters of the same mother" (verse 2) because Israel and Judah were originally one nation, Israel. The meanings of two names have special significance. Aholah means "her own tent or tabernacle", Samaria had a separate worship-place apart from the temple in Jerusalem. Aholibah means "my tabernacle is in her" this represents Jerusalem, where God did establish worship.

Both Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) engaged in prostitution, spiritual infidelity in Egypt in their youth (Ezekiel 23:3). The older sister, Aholah (Israel), later played the harlot with the Assyrians in verses 5–8. That is, Samaria and Israel had sought fulfillment and security by aligning themselves with idolatrous Assyria. The punishment of Aholah fit her crime, "Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword" in verses 9–10. Israel was conquered and her people deported to Assyria, you will find reference to this in 2 Kings 17. The Assyrians were the instruments God used to inflict His judgments upon Israel.

In Ezekiel 23:11–21, Ezekiel portrays the younger sister, Aholibah (Judah), as even more corrupt and promiscuous than Aholah (Israel). Rather than learning from her sister’s mistakes, Aholibah craved after the Babylonian idols and then the Chaldean lifestyle, committing spiritual prostitution with the Babylonians. Because of Jerusalem’s and Judah’s idolatries God alienated Himself from them and allowed them, too, to be taken into captivity: "I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards. I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury" as stated in verses 24–25. Aholibah (Judah) had learned nothing from her sister’s (Israel) and Judah finally fell to Babylon.

The rest of Ezekiel 23 outlines the details of the two nations’ spiritual infidelity and the punishment they received from God. "Your enemies will deal with you in hatred and take away everything you have worked for. They will leave you stark naked, and the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your lewdness and promiscuity have brought this on you, because you lusted after the nations and defiled yourself with their idols", that's in verses 29–30. Among the detestable practices committed by Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) were sacrificing their children to idols and profaning the sanctuary of God in verses 37–38.

The lesson of Aholah (Israel) and Aholibah (Judah) is that God is a jealous God who punishes those who turn their backs on Him and chase after idols. Though God is patient and long-suffering, eventually His judgment falls on the unfaithful. We reap what we sow according to Galatians 6:7. "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution" (Ezekiel 23:35).

So my friend ksazma Ezekiel 23 is talking about Israel and Judah, I know you just couldn't understand what you were reading even though it clearly said it in the first few verses in Ezekiel 23:4.

"
And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah."

A bit of history for you here, Samaria was an ancient city in the land of Israel and Jerusalem is a city located on a plateau in the Judean mountains. Make sure you understand what you are reading before challenging me my friend.

It is amusing that you really thought that I didn't know that this was not about two women. I framed it that way so you would finally respond to it.

Now explain if this is the best words that God could have used to narrate what you just explained. Lots of talk in those highlighted passages about tits and penises puzzy by God.

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So, according to both the context and language involved, Jesus wasn’t referring to the Canaanite woman as a dog, either directly or indirectly. He wasn’t using an epithet or racial slur but making a point about the priorities He had been given by God. So there you have it ksazma, Jesus was also testing the faith of the woman and teaching an important lesson to His disciples.

Yuh right bai. Jesus didn't call the woman a dog. Maybe it is indeed a language thing. English was not supposed to be so difficult. Maybe it is not the language but rather the holy spirit.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. - Matthew 15: 22-26"


The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly.

This has nothing to do with belief. People believe all sorts of things. I leave those topics for those willing to talk about beliefs. I am simply discussing the printed words and their wordly meanings. Anyone reading a note of someone calling a woman a dog will logically conclude that that person called the woman a dog. Your belief doesn't allow you to believe that but one cannot deny the printed words.

Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Dude. I am not obligated to answer any question from you. I never made any proposition here. All I did is respond (when I cared to) to your postings. You are free t ask anything you wish. It is a free forum. Don't hold your breath that I will answer. You should feel honored that I am actually spending time with the nonsense that you post.

Secondly, how do you move on to another's speck when you are unwilling to deal with the speck you posted?

Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Amen to that!!!

i told him on another forum he is a hypocrite.

He is a wolves in sheep clothing .

 

Imran posted:
Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Amen to that!!!

i told him on another forum he is a hypocrite.

He is a wolves in sheep clothing .

 

But since you are a schmuck, no one cares about your opinion.

ksazma posted:
Imran posted:
Keith posted:

I have fulfill my commitment in answer all your questions you threw my way. Therefore with that said it's time for you to answer a few of mine.

I will not be answering any more questions from you until I see it as fair that you answer mine.

Remember I said to you "Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours"

Amen to that!!!

i told him on another forum he is a hypocrite.

He is a wolves in sheep clothing .

 

But since you are a schmuck, no one cares about your opinion.

Mr Know All what makes you think other care about yours... except yourself.... you bloody moron .

Keith posted:

ksazma, let start with the creation. That good book you read, how long it take God to create the heavens and earth? Could you site your verses  from your holy book that way we know where to find it. Thanks.

Since this topic is about the Bible, it states that God created the world in six days and then rested on the seventh day. What kind of All Powerful God needs a rest day? How many rest days have this God taken since He created the world? GW Bush used to be criticized for all the vacation days he used to take when he was President but that was understandable since Bush was human. But God?

Imran posted:
 

Mr Know All what makes you think other care about yours... except yourself.... you bloody moron .

If you had the ability to read properly, you would seen where I stated many times that GNI is where I hang out. I don't care what others here think about me.

ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:

 religious forum is heating upppppppppp

Imagine that biatch Imran criticizing me for honoring and respecting my two wonderful in-laws. Some people mental state is beyond repair.

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

Chameli posted:
ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:

 religious forum is heating upppppppppp

Imagine that biatch Imran criticizing me for honoring and respecting my two wonderful in-laws. Some people mental state is beyond repair.

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:
 
[]
 

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

oh well, just leave him alone...maybe he's jealous haha

you do what you think is right

there is no greater love than RESPECT and you prove that to your wife and her family as she does the same for you and your family

TO EACH HIS OWN

What have I learned during my discussion with ksazma thus far other than reluctant to answer questions. Here I would outline and you can check the previous post if I am mistaken.

Number 1 ksazma attack the validity of the Bible

This is expected of him. If ksazma can undermine the strength and integrity of God's word, then it would be much easier for him to win his arguments, confound anyone who's a Christian, and make converts of those who don't know the truth and power of the Bible. This is exactly what the devil did in the Garden of Eden.  Satan said, "You truly will not die!" in Genesis 3:4.  I am not calling ksazma satanic.  I am simply pointing out that is how deception begins by bringing doubt upon God's word, and that this is exactly what ksazma has been trying to do. He try to get folks here reading the post to doubt the Bible and then making it look as though what he belief is great. Various methods are used here to accomplish this:

1. Stating that the Bible has numerous contradictions, remember that.

A. Of course, I cannot go through all the alleged Bible contradictions here. But my observation has been that the majority of "biblical contradictions" raised by ksazma are nothing more than examples of his lack of understanding of biblical theology and context. Always read the context of verses. My fellow Christians, don't let folks like ksazma simply state that there are contradictions and leave it at that. Ask them to give you one, like I did. If you cannot answer it, do research and get back to him. Sure, there are some tough areas of Scripture, but there are no contradictions in God's Word.

2. Criticizing the lack of original manuscripts.

A. The point here is that because we do not have the original manuscripts of the Bible, we cannot really know what the originals said and, therefore, the Bible could have been corrupted. Of course, what ksazma fail to mention is:

2-a: The Bible documents are well attested as being reliable and accurate. In fact, we have around 24,000 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament. So much so, that no major area of Christian doctrine is affected by possible variations among manuscripts.

Number. 2 ksazma attempt to set Paul against Jesus.

ksazma often make the claim that Paul never met Jesus and was not a disciple or apostle of Jesus something to that extent. Of course, this is not true. Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus in Acts 9 after Jesus' resurrection. Jesus spoke to him and commissioned him. So, Paul met Jesus. Furthermore, Paul visited the Jerusalem apostles Peter, James, and John who affirmed Paul's mission and message in Galatians 2:9. Also, see the context of Galatians 1:18--2:10. Peter, who was a disciple of Jesus, personally authenticated Paul's writings by calling them scripture in 2 Pet. 3:15-16. If they are inspired, then they cannot contradict Jesus' words.

In addition, ksazma belief would tell us that Jesus never claimed to be God, and that Paul is the one who wrote that Jesus was God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God, then in 2 Peter 3:15-16 where Peter calls Paul's writings Scripture and affirms Paul's message was in Galatians 2:9. Nevertheless, ksazma would like to sometimes assert that Paul hijacked Christianity and took it over and made Jesus into something He was not.

Folks, there are other areas people like ksazma will say are where Jesus and Paul do not agree; but when they bring it up, always ask for an example. Each time I've done this, I've discovered that ksazma did not have a sufficient understanding of what the text is saying. Remember, always read the context.

Number. 3 ksazma misinterpreting various Scripture passages.

A very good example of misrepresentation of biblical passages can be found in a dialogue I had with ksazma regarding Ezekiel 23. What ksazma is guilty of doing is imposing belief understandings upon biblical texts and then complaining about the biblical texts in light of how he interpret them. This is not how one should go about "refuting the opposition." Rather, ksazma should seek to understand the biblical/cultural context and deal with the issue from that perspective not a fabricated one.

=============================================
PS: I am answering any of questions, it's only fair that you address the one I asked, why are evading my question? In case you miss it.

ksazma, that book you read, how long it say it take God to create the heavens and earth? Could you site your verses from it that way we know where to find it. Thanks.

Chameli posted:
ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:
 
[]
 

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

oh well, just leave him alone...maybe he's jealous haha

you do what you think is right

there is no greater love than RESPECT and you prove that to your wife and her family as she does the same for you and your family

TO EACH HIS OWN

I criticize SOB Kazama for taking a Christian to task for his beliefs while at the same time he practice Islam . I have nothing against him doing the service for his in laws ( I respect that) but show respect for the bible.

my wife is Hindu and I came from a Muslim home  ... and I would not debate any religious book .

don't debate another believer when you are not upholding the book you believe in.

ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:
ksazma posted:
Chameli posted:

 religious forum is heating upppppppppp

Imagine that biatch Imran criticizing me for honoring and respecting my two wonderful in-laws. Some people mental state is beyond repair.

what??? where?

I bet if it was reverse he would be Proud of you

Bro, at my beloved Husband's funeral, a good friend of hubby who is popular on WI cricket TV asked me if he can make Dua and a relative rolled her eyes at me...of course, i said YES.  Prayer is prayer and GOD is ONE (IMO)

I won't post my opinion on religion because i leave the start of the next war to trump haha

He did on the current Fleeing Islam thread and he did on previous ones. Looks like he has a problem with Hindus too.

Don't share the poison you are drowning in . 

 

Keith posted:

What have I learned during my discussion with ksazma thus far other than reluctant to answer questions. Here I would outline and you can check the previous post if I am mistaken.

Number 1 ksazma attack the validity of the Bible

This is expected of him. If ksazma can undermine the strength and integrity of God's word, then it would be much easier for him to win his arguments, confound anyone who's a Christian, and make converts of those who don't know the truth and power of the Bible. This is exactly what the devil did in the Garden of Eden.  Satan said, "You truly will not die!" in Genesis 3:4.  I am not calling ksazma satanic.  I am simply pointing out that is how deception begins by bringing doubt upon God's word, and that this is exactly what ksazma has been trying to do. He try to get folks here reading the post to doubt the Bible and then making it look as though what he belief is great. Various methods are used here to accomplish this:

1. Stating that the Bible has numerous contradictions, remember that.

A. Of course, I cannot go through all the alleged Bible contradictions here. But my observation has been that the majority of "biblical contradictions" raised by ksazma are nothing more than examples of his lack of understanding of biblical theology and context. Always read the context of verses. My fellow Christians, don't let folks like ksazma simply state that there are contradictions and leave it at that. Ask them to give you one, like I did. If you cannot answer it, do research and get back to him. Sure, there are some tough areas of Scripture, but there are no contradictions in God's Word.

2. Criticizing the lack of original manuscripts.

A. The point here is that because we do not have the original manuscripts of the Bible, we cannot really know what the originals said and, therefore, the Bible could have been corrupted. Of course, what ksazma fail to mention is:

2-a: The Bible documents are well attested as being reliable and accurate. In fact, we have around 24,000 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament. So much so, that no major area of Christian doctrine is affected by possible variations among manuscripts.

Number. 2 ksazma attempt to set Paul against Jesus.

ksazma often make the claim that Paul never met Jesus and was not a disciple or apostle of Jesus something to that extent. Of course, this is not true. Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus in Acts 9 after Jesus' resurrection. Jesus spoke to him and commissioned him. So, Paul met Jesus. Furthermore, Paul visited the Jerusalem apostles Peter, James, and John who affirmed Paul's mission and message in Galatians 2:9. Also, see the context of Galatians 1:18--2:10. Peter, who was a disciple of Jesus, personally authenticated Paul's writings by calling them scripture in 2 Pet. 3:15-16. If they are inspired, then they cannot contradict Jesus' words.

In addition, ksazma belief would tell us that Jesus never claimed to be God, and that Paul is the one who wrote that Jesus was God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God, then in 2 Peter 3:15-16 where Peter calls Paul's writings Scripture and affirms Paul's message was in Galatians 2:9. Nevertheless, ksazma would like to sometimes assert that Paul hijacked Christianity and took it over and made Jesus into something He was not.

Folks, there are other areas people like ksazma will say are where Jesus and Paul do not agree; but when they bring it up, always ask for an example. Each time I've done this, I've discovered that ksazma did not have a sufficient understanding of what the text is saying. Remember, always read the context.

Number. 3 ksazma misinterpreting various Scripture passages.

A very good example of misrepresentation of biblical passages can be found in a dialogue I had with ksazma regarding Ezekiel 23. What ksazma is guilty of doing is imposing belief understandings upon biblical texts and then complaining about the biblical texts in light of how he interpret them. This is not how one should go about "refuting the opposition." Rather, ksazma should seek to understand the biblical/cultural context and deal with the issue from that perspective not a fabricated one.

=============================================
PS: I am answering any of questions, it's only fair that you address the one I asked, why are evading my question? In case you miss it.

ksazma, that book you read, how long it say it take God to create the heavens and earth? Could you site your verses from it that way we know where to find it. Thanks.

All of this and yet you have not proven that any of my citation are NOT from the scripture. You can believe whatever you wish. So can I. Why do you think that your interpretation is better than mine. Because I have no desire to question your interpretation or belief, I limited my argument to the word by stating that they are there. If the scripture states that Jesus called a woman a dog, that is what it states. What you think that means is your right but that does not remove the fact that the scripture states that Jesus called a woman a dog. If the scripture give an account of two whoring sisters who likes large penises like horses with huge ejaculations and who likes their tits and vaginas tickled and pressed, that is what it states. You can believe whatever you wish about that passage but that does not remove the fact that the scripture stated that.

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
×