Not a Sermon only a Thought

skeldon_man posted:
 

Ksaz, like I told Keith, the bible has deeper meaning than what Christians believe. These dudes like zombies swallow the writings like hook, line and sinker. They read but do not analyze and comprehend. That's the reason the followers are so shallow. Bible colleges are the easiest to obtain a diploma. All they need to do is to recite the passages word for word.

Skelly, it is just interested that they are always criticizing other peoples' beliefs when there is nothing so special or better about theirs. My sole objective was to demonstrate that to Keith.

ksazma posted:
skeldon_man posted:
 

Ksaz, like I told Keith, the bible has deeper meaning than what Christians believe. These dudes like zombies swallow the writings like hook, line and sinker. They read but do not analyze and comprehend. That's the reason the followers are so shallow. Bible colleges are the easiest to obtain a diploma. All they need to do is to recite the passages word for word.

Skelly, it is just interested that they are always criticizing other peoples' beliefs when there is nothing so special or better about theirs. My sole objective was to demonstrate that to Keith.

You are such a hypocrite. Before you open your mouth or put your hands on a keyboard to type check yourself brother. Again you failed to take that speck out of your own eyes and now you throwing stones at a glass building. I need you to find where I, I'm not talking about other people, criticized your belief. When you finish count the number of criticisms I've been attack here with due to my belief.

As for your apprentice no need to respond to that misguided fellow, his own folly will drown him.

Let's watch "Finding Jesus" on Fake News Channel(CNN) on March 5th. We should be able to accept the truth and the dissenting commentaries. Hope we keep an open mind. I think(maybe) I have seen this on America Heroes Channel before. I'll still watch it again.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
skeldon_man posted:
 

Ksaz, like I told Keith, the bible has deeper meaning than what Christians believe. These dudes like zombies swallow the writings like hook, line and sinker. They read but do not analyze and comprehend. That's the reason the followers are so shallow. Bible colleges are the easiest to obtain a diploma. All they need to do is to recite the passages word for word.

Skelly, it is just interested that they are always criticizing other peoples' beliefs when there is nothing so special or better about theirs. My sole objective was to demonstrate that to Keith.

You are such a hypocrite. Before you open your mouth or put your hands on a keyboard to type check yourself brother. Again you failed to take that speck out of your own eyes and now you throwing stones at a glass building. I need you to find where I, I'm not talking about other people, criticized your belief. When you finish count the number of criticisms I've been attack here with due to my belief.

As for your apprentice no need to respond to that misguided fellow, his own folly will drown him.

Lets see where I entered this topic. You began it on October 16th 2016 and it was not until your post on December 15, 2016, that I offered my opinion on THAT post. Two months of uninterrupted activity on any message board is a lifetime. Below in my post from that day. Your post crossed the line from Christian belief to global reprimand of anyone who does not accept Jesus the way you did. My response was to show why I don't care to see Jesus as you do and I proceeded to highlight his record from the Bible to support my argument. There is not one reference that I made from the Bible that you can say I manufactured. You may disagree with my conclusions but you cannot say that I said the Bible state something that it didn't.

Secondly, why are you asking about if you ever criticized any other person's belief? Are you hoping to by asking me about the Qur'an? I prefer to keep this on the topic you chose instead of expanding it to other topics. If I begin a topic to pontificate about the Qur'an for instance, you would be more than welcome to make your objections. I haven't done so nor do I care to at this time but you can still hope that I do some day.

And there you go again calling Skelly a misguided person who will drown in his own folly. And how do you know that he isn't the guided one and the rest of us including you and I aren't the misguided ones? See how easy it is for you to fall into that ditch you think is for someone else?

 

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Keith posted:

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Romans 14:7-12

Followers of Jesus would agree that whether we live or die, we do so for Christ. But His sovereignty is not limited to those who claim Him as King. The entire world—the whole universe, in fact—is subject to His authority. At the final judgment, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess and praise God.

In the here and now, relatively few people recognize the Lord’s rule and seek to remain in His will. Most refuse to see that all of our human constructs—such as government, culture, and society—thrive or falter in the palm of God’s hand. Moreover, nonbelievers resist Christ’s sovereignty in their own lives. People who won’t surrender their will to the Lord’s great purpose assume control of their own destiny. However, the Lord’s supreme reign cannot be thwarted.

It’s common for men and women today to believe that there are no consequences for rejecting the lordship of Jesus Christ. You may have heard people say things like, “That Christian stuff works for you, but it’s not for me. I’ll live on my own terms.” Yet Jesus’ parable of houses built on either solid rock or sand offers a different perspective (Matt. 7:24-27). Only those who make their abode in the Lord can withstand the upheavals of this world.

Kneeling before Jesus Christ as the Lord of your life is the wisest decision you can make. The sovereign Ruler of the universe loves you and desires to bless all of your days. Make your eternal home in the safety of His kingdom, and forever delight in Him.

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ksazma posted:

Suppose that all of this is just make believe? Suppose that what people say of Jesus and what he actually was are two completely different realities? No doubt believers of Jesus will point to what others wrote of Jesus to support their belief. However, if one realistically take the very limited events, words and actions of Jesus as documented in the New Testament free from blind faith, one will come to a different conclusion.

To begin with, Jesus was no king. He was born to an unmarried woman in a barn and does not even know his father. He grew up in the working class with barely any measurable accomplishments. He hanged out with a bunch of other guys who made him feel important but he was not even acknowledged as a leader of the church and had no meaningful role in the church of his peers.

But that was not all. He was also rude, obnoxious and prejudiced as shown in the manner of how he referred to people who were not Jewish of or his inner circle. Names like dogs, pigs, swine, wicked and adulterous people to name a few. He constantly whined about the comforts that others had while he had nothing of his own. If you weren't Jewish, you were not worthy of his acknowledgement. He was even rude and disrespectful to his own mother who bore him through pregnancy and childbirth regardless of her getting pregnant and not disclosing who got her pregnant.

Now this all may sound harsh but they will make sense once one is willing and able to remove the blinders of faith for no matter how much lipstick one put on a pig, it is still a pig. And if Jesus had no problem calling others pigs, none should be concerned that I use the pig reference here.

I asked a simple question and what I got a display of your incompetence to answer. Where did I discredited/critized your beliefs?

I did asked a question about the Quran, hm I don't see that as a criticism but since you raised that issue then again I ask:

"How many days did it take God to create the heaven and earth according to the Quran, the book you ksazma believe in"? 

I awate your answer, not surprising you will come up with excuse about being careful for what you ask for. Just answer the question. Don't you want to see if my response would be critical or not? 

Keith posted:

I asked a simple question and what I got a display of your incompetence to answer. Where did I discredited/critized your beliefs?

I did asked a question about the Quran, hm I don't see that as a criticism but since you raised that issue then again I ask,

How man days did it take God to create the heaven and earth according to the Quran, the book you ksazma believe in? 

I awate your answer, not surprising you will come up with excuse about being careful for what you ask for. Just answer the question. Don't you want to see if my response would be critical or not? 

Keep fooling yourself that it is incompetence. You really think that I am afraid to speak about the Qur'an? I am not interested in comparing the contents of Bible to that of the Qur'an because then I would by nature have to elevate the Qur'an which I refuse to do because it will go against my objection of you elevating your Christian belief above other beliefs. I am no rookie dude.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

I asked a simple question and what I got a display of your incompetence to answer. Where did I discredited/critized your beliefs?

I did asked a question about the Quran, hm I don't see that as a criticism but since you raised that issue then again I ask,

How man days did it take God to create the heaven and earth according to the Quran, the book you ksazma believe in? 

I awate your answer, not surprising you will come up with excuse about being careful for what you ask for. Just answer the question. Don't you want to see if my response would be critical or not? 

Keep fooling yourself that it is incompetence. You really think that I am afraid to speak about the Qur'an? I am not interested in comparing the contents of Bible to that of the Qur'an because then I would by nature have to elevate the Qur'an which I refuse to do because it will go against my objection of you elevating your Christian belief above other beliefs. I am no rookie dude.

Ksaz, bettah teech dis brudda Keith how fuh spell "AWAIT". Same thing I said about "dem bible skool pickney".

skeldon_man posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

I asked a simple question and what I got a display of your incompetence to answer. Where did I discredited/critized your beliefs?

I did asked a question about the Quran, hm I don't see that as a criticism but since you raised that issue then again I ask,

How man days did it take God to create the heaven and earth according to the Quran, the book you ksazma believe in? 

I awate your answer, not surprising you will come up with excuse about being careful for what you ask for. Just answer the question. Don't you want to see if my response would be critical or not? 

Keep fooling yourself that it is incompetence. You really think that I am afraid to speak about the Qur'an? I am not interested in comparing the contents of Bible to that of the Qur'an because then I would by nature have to elevate the Qur'an which I refuse to do because it will go against my objection of you elevating your Christian belief above other beliefs. I am no rookie dude.

Ksaz, bettah teech dis brudda Keith how fuh spell "AWAIT". Same thing I said about "dem bible skool pickney".

Thanks for the correction much appreciated

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

I asked a simple question and what I got a display of your incompetence to answer. Where did I discredited/critized your beliefs?

I did asked a question about the Quran, hm I don't see that as a criticism but since you raised that issue then again I ask,

How man days did it take God to create the heaven and earth according to the Quran, the book you ksazma believe in? 

I awate your answer, not surprising you will come up with excuse about being careful for what you ask for. Just answer the question. Don't you want to see if my response would be critical or not? 

Keep fooling yourself that it is incompetence. You really think that I am afraid to speak about the Qur'an? I am not interested in comparing the contents of Bible to that of the Qur'an because then I would by nature have to elevate the Qur'an which I refuse to do because it will go against my objection of you elevating your Christian belief above other beliefs. I am no rookie dude.

Another excuse, like I said not a bit surprise. Elevate all you want and keep running from the question.

Still waiting to see where I criticize your beliefs.

Keith posted:
 

Another excuse, like I said not a bit surprise. Elevate all you want and keep running from the question.

Still waiting to see where I criticize your beliefs.

I said other peoples' beliefs, not mine. Now go back and look for them.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
 

Another excuse, like I said not a bit surprise. Elevate all you want and keep running from the question.

Still waiting to see where I criticize your beliefs.

I said other peoples' beliefs, not mine. Now go back and look for them.

In that case where did I criticize other people beliefs on this forum? 

Keith posted:

In that case where did I criticize other people beliefs on this forum? 

It is embed in your many posts. Granted you are cutting and pasting these from someone else so they are not yours per say but when you decide to post them, you take on that person's or organization's burden. Your posts speak of your Christian way being the only way which is insulting to other peoples' beliefs. My objective was to demonstrate that there is nothing special with your way which I did very competently.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

In that case where did I criticize other people beliefs on this forum? 

It is embed in your many posts. Granted you are cutting and pasting these from someone else so they are not yours per say but when you decide to post them, you take on that person's or organization's burden. Your posts speak of your Christian way being the only way which is insulting to other peoples' beliefs. My objective was to demonstrate that there is nothing special with your way which I did very competently.

I said show me, I didn't asked for your analysis. And yes those post that I do during the week comes from "In touch ministry" and there noting in there that criticize another person beliefs. 

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

In that case where did I criticize other people beliefs on this forum? 

It is embed in your many posts. Granted you are cutting and pasting these from someone else so they are not yours per say but when you decide to post them, you take on that person's or organization's burden. Your posts speak of your Christian way being the only way which is insulting to other peoples' beliefs. My objective was to demonstrate that there is nothing special with your way which I did very competently.

I said show me, I didn't asked for your analysis. And yes those post that I do during the week comes from "In touch ministry" and there noting in there that criticize another person beliefs. 

You don't have to ask fro someone's input when you post on a public domain. It is part of the deal of participating of a public domain. You are always free to have your own private domain where you can post anything you wish. I am not here to do your work for you. I participate whenever I care to and to the extent that I do. I am not going back to show you anything. You can do that is you wish. I have moved on to your next post whenever you post it and if I care to get involved in it.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

In that case where did I criticize other people beliefs on this forum? 

It is embed in your many posts. Granted you are cutting and pasting these from someone else so they are not yours per say but when you decide to post them, you take on that person's or organization's burden. Your posts speak of your Christian way being the only way which is insulting to other peoples' beliefs. My objective was to demonstrate that there is nothing special with your way which I did very competently.

I said show me, I didn't asked for your analysis. And yes those post that I do during the week comes from "In touch ministry" and there nothing in there that criticize another person beliefs. 

You don't have to ask fro someone's input when you post on a public domain. It is part of the deal of participating of a public domain. You are always free to have your own private domain where you can post anything you wish. I am not here to do your work for you. I participate whenever I care to and to the extent that I do. I am not going back to show you anything. You can do that is you wish. I have moved on to your next post whenever you post it and if I care to get involved in it.

You're failing to understand, it's you who accused me of criticizing others beliefs here, I'm certain I've not therefore the burden is on you to present proof that I did what you are accusing me of. Is that too hard to understand?

The Foundation of Wisdom

Proverbs 9:7-12

“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Prov. 9:10). Initially, the connection between these two concepts may be difficult to grasp. How can fearing God make us wise?

First, we need to understand what it means to fear the Lord. This term is used to describe an awesome reverence for God that moves us to acknowledge Him as the sovereign ruler of heaven and earth, submit to His will, and walk in obedience. The result of such a response will be the acquisition of wisdom.

If we commit ourselves to living for God’s purposes rather than our own, we will gain greater understanding of Him. The Holy Spirit will enable us to see circumstances and people from His divine perspective. This kind of wisdom reaches beyond human perception and gives us discernment to make decisions that fit into the Lord’s plans for our life. Knowing that He always works for our best interests, we are empowered to walk confidently through both good and bad times.

But if we reject God’s instructions, we dishonor Him with our refusal to acknowledge His right to rule our life. It’s foolish to rebel against His authority and think we can ever win. Those who won’t fear God will never know real wisdom.

What is your attitude toward the Lord? If you truly revere Him, you will listen for His directions and heed His warnings. A desire to honor and please Him will motivate you to turn from evil and seek to live in obedience. The result will be wisdom beyond human understanding.

-In Touch Ministries-

Funny that Keith says that I am incompetent when that description better suits him. Take for example, I stated that at no time in Abraham's life was Isaac his only son. Keith disagreed with that statement. So how am I the incompetent one?

ksazma posted:

Funny that Keith says that I am incompetent when that description better suits him. Take for example, I stated that at no time in Abraham's life was Isaac his only son. Keith disagreed with that statement. So how am I the incompetent one?

I really don't have to say it when you are displaying your incompetence everyday.

I'm still waiting for you to present me with the evidence of what you were accusing me of.

You decided to change the subject by bringing up matters that were dealt and laid to rest. You are trying hard to escape your incompetence and your ignorance to comprehend is appalling.

Question: How many sons were in Abraham presence when God speak to him saying, "take thy ONLY son"....I think when reality kicks in you will get it.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Funny that Keith says that I am incompetent when that description better suits him. Take for example, I stated that at no time in Abraham's life was Isaac his only son. Keith disagreed with that statement. So how am I the incompetent one?

I really don't have to say it when you are displaying your incompetence everyday.

I'm still waiting for you to present me with the evidence of what you were accusing me of.

You decided to change the subject by bringing up matters that were dealt and laid to rest. You are trying hard to escape your incompetence and your ignorance to comprehend is appalling.

Question: How many sons were in Abraham presence when God speak to him saying, "take thy ONLY son"....I think when reality kicks in you will get it.

Dude, all the arguments that I have made on this topic are much more logical than what the church teaches so I could have picked any.

But you do realize that your question highlighted above makes your God look ever sillier? Wonder if you ever tell any of your kids that whenever they are not in the same room as you, they are not your child?

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Funny that Keith says that I am incompetent when that description better suits him. Take for example, I stated that at no time in Abraham's life was Isaac his only son. Keith disagreed with that statement. So how am I the incompetent one?

I really don't have to say it when you are displaying your incompetence everyday.

I'm still waiting for you to present me with the evidence of what you were accusing me of.

You decided to change the subject by bringing up matters that were dealt and laid to rest. You are trying hard to escape your incompetence and your ignorance to comprehend is appalling.

Question: How many sons were in Abraham presence when God speak to him saying, "take thy ONLY son"....I think when reality kicks in you will get it.

Dude, all the arguments that I have made on this topic are much more logical than what the church teaches so I could have picked any.

But you do realize that your question highlighted above makes your God look ever sillier? Wonder if you ever tell any of your kids that whenever they are not in the same room as you, they are not your child?

Are you going to answer the question or skip it like all others? Just another simple question, that's all. 

You know the story so tell us was Ishmael present when God told Abraham, "take thy only son"? You did notice I break it down to a kid level of understanding for you because I didn't want to insult your intelligence, oh, I did, didn't I. Forgive me it was not intentional

Walking Wisely

Ephesians 5:15-17

When Paul exhorts us to walk wisely, he gives three instructions to help us make godly choices. First, he says to “be careful how you walk” (Eph. 5:15). Because we live in a morally corrupt society, we must be vigilant about the way we think and act. Unless we deliberately choose to guard ourselves, we will simply do what comes naturally and go along with cultural influences.

Next, in verse 16, the apostle instructs us to make the most of our time. The Lord has entrusted each of us with 24 hours per day and various opportunities to participate in His plans for us. But so often we are tempted to squander our time and energy on our own pursuits without a thought of what our heavenly Father may have in mind for us.

In verse 17, Paul lays out the final exhortation: to “understand what the will of the Lord is” (Eph. 5:17) In its broadest sense, God’s will for us is that we would each become the person that He created us to be and do the work He has planned for us to accomplish (Eph. 2:10). Knowing this, we should look at every decision with consideration of whether our choice will further or hinder our heavenly Father’s purposes for our life. To live thoughtlessly outside of His will is foolish.

The Lord wants us to walk wisely so that we can enjoy all of the marvelous benefits that He’s promised in His Word and longs to give us. Wasted opportunities and time misspent can never be reclaimed. Let’s commit to make each and every day count for Jesus Christ instead of merely living for ourselves.

Keith posted:

So the new question I am asking of ksazma to tell us is:

Was Ishmael there in Abraham presence when God instructed him to, "take thy only son"? 

Folks as you can see it's a simple yes/no answer I need from my friend ksazma. 

That's a stupid question dude. I am surprised you are taking so much pride in asking it. People don't stop being someone's child just because they live in a different place. Ishmael was still alive when Isaac was born and even when Isaac was around the age when Abraham tried to sacrifice his ONLY son. The only time Abraham had an ONLY son was before Isaac was born.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So the new question I am asking of ksazma to tell us is:

Was Ishmael there in Abraham presence when God instructed him to, "take thy only son"? 

Folks as you can see it's a simple yes/no answer I need from my friend ksazma. 

That's a stupid question dude. I am surprised you are taking so much pride in asking it. People don't stop being someone's child just because they live in a different place. Ishmael was still alive when Isaac was born and even when Isaac was around the age when Abraham tried to sacrifice his ONLY son. The only time Abraham had an ONLY son was before Isaac was born.

Are you really listening to yourself when you are typing/speaking? As /I said your ignorance is appalling. I didn't say Ishmael was not Abraham child nor have I ever denied it.

What I'm asking you is simple. So far we have establish that Abraham had two sons, Ishmael the older son, Hagar being his mother and Isaac the younger son, Sarai being his mother, do you understand so far? Then we read Sarai had Abraham sent away her handmaid Hagar and son, do you recall that, did they leave or stayed? So if we were to take a census after Hagar and Ishmael departure we would find only Abraham, Sarai and their son Isaac.

Now I'm asking the question again, when God spoke to Abraham, "take thy only son", Where was Ishmael and Hagar? Were they currently present in Abraham household when God spoke to Abraham.

This very simple reasoning is displaying vacuous on your part. Keep it up and you will end up in a straight jacket, those white ones. 

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So the new question I am asking of ksazma to tell us is:

Was Ishmael there in Abraham presence when God instructed him to, "take thy only son"? 

Folks as you can see it's a simple yes/no answer I need from my friend ksazma. 

That's a stupid question dude. I am surprised you are taking so much pride in asking it. People don't stop being someone's child just because they live in a different place. Ishmael was still alive when Isaac was born and even when Isaac was around the age when Abraham tried to sacrifice his ONLY son. The only time Abraham had an ONLY son was before Isaac was born.

Are you really listening to yourself when you are typing/speaking? As /I said your ignorance is appalling. I didn't say Ishmael was not Abraham child nor have I ever denied it.

What I'm asking you is simple. So far we have establish that Abraham had two sons, Ishmael the older son, Hagar being his mother and Isaac the younger son, Sarai being his mother, do you understand so far? Then we read Sarai had Abraham sent away her handmaid Hagar and son, do you recall that, did they leave or stayed? So if we were to take a census after Hagar and Ishmael departure we would find only Abraham, Sarai and their son Isaac.

Now I'm asking the question again, when God spoke to Abraham, "take thy only son", Where was Ishmael and Hagar? Were they currently present in Abraham household when God spoke to Abraham.

This very simple reasoning is displaying vacuous on your part. Keep it up and might end up in a straight jacket, those white ones. 

Nothing has changed from my last post. Your question is still stupid. At no time was Isaac Abraham's ONLY son. Only Ishmael was Abraham's ONLY son before Isaac was born. I don't play stupid games answering stupid questions. Keep that stupidness for when you are in your church.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

So the new question I am asking of ksazma to tell us is:

Was Ishmael there in Abraham presence when God instructed him to, "take thy only son"? 

Folks as you can see it's a simple yes/no answer I need from my friend ksazma. 

That's a stupid question dude. I am surprised you are taking so much pride in asking it. People don't stop being someone's child just because they live in a different place. Ishmael was still alive when Isaac was born and even when Isaac was around the age when Abraham tried to sacrifice his ONLY son. The only time Abraham had an ONLY son was before Isaac was born.

Are you really listening to yourself when you are typing/speaking? As /I said your ignorance is appalling. I didn't say Ishmael was not Abraham child nor have I ever denied it.

What I'm asking you is simple. So far we have establish that Abraham had two sons, Ishmael the older son, Hagar being his mother and Isaac the younger son, Sarai being his mother, do you understand so far? Then we read Sarai had Abraham sent away her handmaid Hagar and son, do you recall that, did they leave or stayed? So if we were to take a census after Hagar and Ishmael departure we would find only Abraham, Sarai and their son Isaac.

Now I'm asking the question again, when God spoke to Abraham, "take thy only son", Where was Ishmael and Hagar? Were they currently present in Abraham household when God spoke to Abraham.

This very simple reasoning is displaying vacuous on your part. Keep it up and might end up in a straight jacket, those white ones. 

Nothing has changed from my last post. Your question is still stupid. At no time was Isaac Abraham's ONLY son. Only Ishmael was Abraham's ONLY son before Isaac was born. I don't play stupid games answering stupid questions. Keep that stupidness for when you are in your church.

Am I disputing the Abraham is Isaac only son? NO! Ishmael never cease from being his son. What I am asking you is to tell us the viewers, was Ishmael with Abraham when God spoke to him saying, "...taking thy only son.." Man, some folks need you to beat reasoning into their head.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:

Keep up all your snide remarks also. But then again your hero Jesus was just like that with all his rotten attitude and stupidness.

I am only pointing out the obvious

It is never necessary to point out the obvious.

Keith posted:

Am I disputing the Abraham is Isaac only son? NO! Ishmael never cease from being his son. 

Good. You finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Am I disputing the Abraham is Isaac only son? NO! Ishmael never cease from being his son. 

Good. You finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'.

I think if you are to really pay attention to that book that you believe in and read you will see how many suspense it leaves you in. Case in point, did that book ever reveal to you the name of the person who was being sacrifice by Abraham or it left you to assume?

Anyway, back to your assumptions, what the heck are you talking about by stating, "finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'". You are one misguided individual and lack a whole lot of understanding.

Are you accusing me now of stating that Abraham only had one son?  If so I challenge you again to show where I said that. All I am asking, was Ishmael there when God spoke to Abraham about the sacrifice? We can getting into the  sacrifice issue once you answer my simple yes/no question.

Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Am I disputing the Abraham is Isaac only son? NO! Ishmael never cease from being his son. 

Good. You finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'.

I think if you are to really pay attention to that book that you believe in and read you will see how many suspense it leaves you in. Case in point, did that book ever reveal to you the name of the person who was being sacrifice by Abraham or it left you to assume?

Anyway, back to your assumptions, what the heck are you talking about by stating, "finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'". You are one misguided individual and lack a whole lot of understanding.

Are you accusing me now of stating that Abraham only had one son?  If so I challenge you again to show where I said that. All I am asking, was Ishmael there when God spoke to Abraham about the sacrifice? We can getting into the  sacrifice issue once you answer my simple yes/no question.

God never told Abraham to sacrifice anyone. Your book is misguided to think that God would ask one of his creature to kill his child. However, at the time that Abraham was going to sacrifice ISHMAEL, Isaac was not even conceived and therefore not in existence. Therefore when Abraham had only ONE child that child was Ishmael.

ksazma posted:
Keith posted:
ksazma posted:
Keith posted:

Am I disputing the Abraham is Isaac only son? NO! Ishmael never cease from being his son. 

Good. You finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'.

I think if you are to really pay attention to that book that you believe in and read you will see how many suspense it leaves you in. Case in point, did that book ever reveal to you the name of the person who was being sacrifice by Abraham or it left you to assume?

Anyway, back to your assumptions, what the heck are you talking about by stating, "finally catch sense that your book or your God is confused to state that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY son at the time of the 'sacrifice'". You are one misguided individual and lack a whole lot of understanding.

Are you accusing me now of stating that Abraham only had one son?  If so I challenge you again to show where I said that. All I am asking, was Ishmael there when God spoke to Abraham about the sacrifice? We can getting into the  sacrifice issue once you answer my simple yes/no question.

God never told Abraham to sacrifice anyone. Your book is misguided to think that God would ask one of his creature to kill his child. However, at the time that Abraham was going to sacrifice ISHMAEL, Isaac was not even conceived and therefore not in existence. Therefore when Abraham had only ONE child that child was Ishmael.

I will address your misunderstanding later for now go read and be ready

You are in no position to do so as you stand on shaky ground. What kind of God asks a 99 years old man to slit the throat of his 13 years old son who he didn't have until he was in his 86th year? That would be nothing less than a very confused God.

God’s Word to Us

2 Timothy 4:1-5

Most everyone in our society has easy access to a Bible, yet far too often this book is left unopened. If only people grasped its true worth, they would prize God’s Word above every other possession.

All of Scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit. While He used man to pen each line, every thought and word in the Bible originated with God Himself (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Consider how we treasure letters from people we love. Our response to Scripture should be even stronger. The Creator of the universe—the God who holds eternity in His hand—recorded all the truth that is necessary for His children to live fully and joyfully, both before and after death (2 Peter 1:3). God reveals Himself through His Word, which is alive and so powerful that it can transform our lives (Heb. 4:12).

What’s more, Romans 10:17 explains the great importance of our love for the Bible: “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” Scripture, then, is the very means by which saving faith is possible.

How could such a book become so commonplace in our heart? So taken for granted? It is vital that we realize the preeminence of its author—and Scripture’s potential impact on our life today.

Think about the last time you saw a Bible. What was your reaction? Did you finger the pages with awe, or did you pass it by with barely a glance? Next time you open this precious book, read the words, savor their meaning, and ask God to help you apply its lessons to your life

ksazma posted:

You are in no position to do so as you stand on shaky ground. What kind of God asks a 99 years old man to slit the throat of his 13 years old son who he didn't have until he was in his 86th year? That would be nothing less than a very confused God.

Looks like voodooism in Haiti.

Skelly, in the old days people used to believe lots of things and to give those beliefs credence they will claim that God ordained them. Our responsibility is to recognize those things as not from God because it makes God look like a sadist.

ksazma, perhaps you failed to understand the Bible and Quran, Abraham had obeyed God many times in his walk with Him, but no test could have been more severe than the one in Genesis 22. God commanded, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering" (Genesis 22:2). I understand that the Quran didn't say who was being sacrifice, we will get to that later to clear up your misunderstand.

Since this idea steam from ksazma misunderstanding of the phrase "only son", it becomes necessary to explain what this phrase exactly means in relation to Isaac. A careful reading of the Bible shows that the phrase is used to affirm Isaac's unique status, a status based on the following,

1 - Isaac was the promised child of Abraham, a fact which the Quran agrees with Genesis 17:15-21; Surah 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30), pay attention to Surah 11:71 .

2 -  Isaac was conceived miraculously to a barren mother and a very aged father, the Quran likewise agreeing with Genesis 17:15-17, 18:9-15, 21:1-7; Galatians 4:28-29; Surah 11:69-73, 51:24-30

3 - In Genesis 13:14-18, 15:18-21, 28:13-14 God promised that it would be Isaac's descendants who would inherit the land given to Abraham. Ishmael had no part in the inheritance and promise given to Isaac through Abraham.

It is for these reasons that Isaac is called Abraham's only son since God himself reckoned him as the child of promise and blessings, an honor never bestowed upon Ishmael.

Even more startling is the fact that the Quran never mentions the name of the sacrificial child; amazing indeed considering how ksazma overzealous stated, as I quote him, "...at the time that Abraham was going to sacrifice ISHMAEL, Isaac was not even conceived..."

Lets read Surah 37:99-106: "And [then] he said, "Indeed, I will go to [where I am ordered by] my Lord; He will guide me. My Lord, grant me [a child] from among the righteous." So We gave him good tidings of a forbearing boy.

"And when he reached with him [the age of] exertion, he said, "O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I [must] sacrifice you, so see what you think." He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the steadfast."’

"And when they had both submitted and he put him down upon his forehead, we called out to him, ‘O Abraham! You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good Indeed, this was the clear trial" (Surah 37:99-106).

Hmm, ksazma quote, "God never told Abraham to sacrifice anyone", you should read Surah 11:71 again.

I recall an Islamic historian by the of Al-Tabari, do you know him ksazma? he said, and I quote, "The earliest sages of our Prophet's nation disagree about which of Abraham's two sons it was that he was commanded to sacrifice. Some say it was Isaac, while others say it was Ishmael. Both views are supported by statements related on the authority of the Messenger of God. If both groups of statements were equally sound, then - since they both came from the Prophet only the Quran could serve as proof that the account naming Isaac is clearly the more truthful of the two."

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