"Myth" Indians were Second Class Citizens under the PNC.

cain posted:
Django posted:

Imran,

I should start another thread why Indians was shut out for the Police Dept,will have to dig up some more info,one of the requirement was height 5 ft 8 inches,chest measurement, etc,how many Indians have that height??

Our own Amral's mom seemed small in stature and yet she made it in the GPF. Perhaps most Indians and other races were not into joining the forces, they preffered to carry on their family's traditition or other avenues.

Amral's mom is a good role model for the young East Indian females of Guyana.

antabanta posted:
Imran posted:
antabanta posted:
Imran posted:

In 2001 , Indians were rape and strip of their clothing on Regent St by blacks in broad day light. Indians businesses were set on fire. 

http://www.guyanaundersiege.com/ethnic%20crimes.htm

Can you or the author substantiate this story? I was on Regent Street close to Acme on the same date and time and saw no such incident.

I was at Thrifty Variety Store , when a female was rescued by SN. Singh store owner , she came from King St . The same direction of Acme .. surprised you miss that. She had her panties on and a bunch of Black tugs were after her . 

I did miss that one. How many indians were raped and stripped on Regent St in broad daylight?

You think me rass got time had time to investigate... but hear na .... that's your weekend homework 

Vincent Teekah had a friend of my father's who was a headmaster at a school on East Coast Demerara transferred to a school in Essequibo because the chap had a couple of drinks and was passing a PNC rally and asked Teekah what nonsense he was speaking.

Prashad posted:
cain posted:
Django posted:

Imran,

I should start another thread why Indians was shut out for the Police Dept,will have to dig up some more info,one of the requirement was height 5 ft 8 inches,chest measurement, etc,how many Indians have that height??

Our own Amral's mom seemed small in stature and yet she made it in the GPF. Perhaps most Indians and other races were not into joining the forces, they preffered to carry on their family's traditition or other avenues.

Amral's mom is a good role model for the young East Indian females of Guyana.

Gillbaka there were several cases of discrimination that kept East Indians at the bottom of the pack in the forces. When Desmond Hoyte because President he promoted an East Indian policeman who had a degree from Sergeant to Suprientendent 

Imran posted:
GTAngler posted:

There was a chap named Raghubir from Ogle who was either an Inspector or Superintendent under Burnham.

Are you speaking of Balram Raghubir ... he was from Station St Kitty.

Raghubir got up in the ranks under Burnham. Raghubir classmate was Barker who became commissioner and he push his squadmate up with him.

Prashad posted:
Imran posted:
GTAngler posted:

There was a chap named Raghubir from Ogle who was either an Inspector or Superintendent under Burnham.

Are you speaking of Balram Raghubir ... he was from Station St Kitty.

Raghubir got up in the ranks under Burnham. Raghubir classmate was Barker who became commissioner and he push his squadmate up with him.

Raghubir was promoted to Commissioner of Police 

Prashad posted:
Imran posted:
GTAngler posted:

There was a chap named Raghubir from Ogle who was either an Inspector or Superintendent under Burnham.

Are you speaking of Balram Raghubir ... he was from Station St Kitty.

Raghubir got up in the ranks under Burnham. Raghubir classmate was Barker who became commissioner and he push his squadmate up with him.

You speaking of Lloyd Baker ... a huge guy 

Imran posted:
Prashad posted:
Imran posted:
GTAngler posted:

There was a chap named Raghubir from Ogle who was either an Inspector or Superintendent under Burnham.

Are you speaking of Balram Raghubir ... he was from Station St Kitty.

Raghubir got up in the ranks under Burnham. Raghubir classmate was Barker who became commissioner and he push his squadmate up with him.

You speaking of Lloyd Baker ... a huge guy 

That is the man. He sat next to Raghubir in class and the two worked beats together. Rumor was one would sleep and the other would watch.

Gilly,thanks for your input,reading all the experiences and loss,is shocking.

I have to count my self lucky,in 70's while going home my company was a pocket Radio,two guys on a bicycle pass by shouted "give me that radio",I said "come for it",they didn't and went along their way.

I have always look out for the choke and robbers,i have evaded a few after observing their movement,i usually change course enter a store pretending i am shopping,two experiences at Stabroek Market,one Saturday evening going to catch the speed boat at the back of the market,4 young kids between 12yrs and 14 yrs was behind a little distance,suddenly they were closer,my instinct said something is up,I turned around and said if any one of you try anything,I am going to fix your heads with the stuff i had in my tool case.I had a few drinks shouted out loud,they backed away.

The other incident when going to GT to buy parts, the dough is in a haversack,soon as i got off the speed boat and entered in to the market,saw two guys following,took another route,get to my friend Haro drug store,throw the haversack over the counter,started a conversation ,the two fellas pass by looked and gone their way,I hang around for about 1/2 hr and went on to my journey.

I worked 9 yrs at Robb Street [got to have some smarts] ,near Metropole area,maybe they didn't attempt to rob due to they will bring their electronics equipment to repair at the store and I am known.

You were nearby at F.H.

The bend forward and backward is exercise,you forget i had a battle any way it's called off.

Prashad posted:
Imran posted:
GTAngler posted:

There was a chap named Raghubir from Ogle who was either an Inspector or Superintendent under Burnham.

Are you speaking of Balram Raghubir ... he was from Station St Kitty.

Raghubir got up in the ranks under Burnham. Raghubir classmate was Barker who became commissioner and he push his squadmate up with him.

Barker was one of our Customer for that matter lots of big boys, politicians all walks of life in GT,that is how i got to know a lot of people because of the job,plus my boss mingle with the big boys when he holds a party we were introduced to them,he is good man respects his working staff never treat them lowly,he will show off that he got the best people in the business.

GTAngler posted:
 

As long as he addresses me as Grand Wizard AND is prepared for what I throw back.   

You merely amuse me and if you behave like the KKK I will call you one.

Now run along and tell the world that  (as far as you know) in 1964 Indians were all innocent and that only blacks engaged in violence. The role that BOTH races and the youth arms of all THREE of the political parties played in this is well documented so you look like a fraud with your "as far as I know" nonsense.

GTAngler posted:

I meant keep it to the people here involved in these discussions. No need to bring his wife in. That shows the desperation in your feeble arguing.

When he describes my culture as that of a degenerate 17th century pirate and he is married to a woman of that culture he will get that. His wife isn't the issue. HE is!

Prashad posted:
 

Gillbaka there were several cases of discrimination that kept East Indians at the bottom of the pack in the forces.

So what is your excuse after 1992. The fact that the ethnic composition of the armed forces in Guyana remained unchanged even as Jagan went out of his way to beg Indians to join, and Jagdeo is a known racist, is quite revealing.

Just admit that Indians think that being a police man or a soldier in Guyana is "black man wuk" and beneath them.

Django posted:

I lived during the PNC rule in Guyana,family,friends and myself never considered our selves as "Second Class Citizens".I can't recall being treated that way we were free to go any where,no invasion of our villages by PNC supporters.Indians were allowed to run their businesses.Burnham was surrounded by Indians.The Region i reside in there were two Indian Regional Chairman.Indians held top positions at the Regional Offices,Indian Headmasters,teachers..etc..

I can recall in the early 70's was living in Georgetown would walk from Plaza Cinema to Durban and Smith St,where i reside,passing Metropole Cinema 12 in the night and no one bothered me.

I can go..on..and..on

What's your story???

Django, you are a "holocaust" denier.  But you may have a point, Indians were not 2nd class citizens, but 7th class among the six races and the dougla.  How tight do you hold your nose when you write such swill?

You could go on and on and you moved onto the USA!

You have to choose your fight. A Indian will have a disagreement with a Blackman and the crowd will grow...  99% of blacks have no idea what the issue was , but would be involved to defend their breathern and behave like they were there from the starting. 

I live in Plaisance for 10 years, never had a problem...  

They are a bully type and quick to cry racialism . They believed they are entitled to the world... bread and butter MUST be there for them . 

Too many black  kids are born out of wedlock , no father support and guidance for the kids ... this is there problem. 

Caribny , this video is for you... you have a problem, take it up with the Pastor. 

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Videos (1)
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ba$eman posted:
Django posted:

I lived during the PNC rule in Guyana,family,friends and myself never considered our selves as "Second Class Citizens".I can't recall being treated that way we were free to go any where,no invasion of our villages by PNC supporters.Indians were allowed to run their businesses.Burnham was surrounded by Indians.The Region i reside in there were two Indian Regional Chairman.Indians held top positions at the Regional Offices,Indian Headmasters,teachers..etc..

I can recall in the early 70's was living in Georgetown would walk from Plaza Cinema to Durban and Smith St,where i reside,passing Metropole Cinema 12 in the night and no one bothered me.

I can go..on..and..on

What's your story???

Django, you are a "holocaust" denier.  But you may have a point, Indians were not 2nd class citizens, but 7th class among the six races and the dougla.  How tight do you hold your nose when you write such swill?

You could go on and on and you moved onto the USA!

D2 thinks he is great. I suppose if one abuses Indians, then D2 finds redeeming qualities in them.

Common sense and decency does not apply to Guyana. One has to choose sides. 

Imran posted:

I was at Thrifty Variety Store , when a female was rescued by SN. Singh store owner , she came from King St . The same direction of Acme .. surprised you miss that. She had her panties on and a bunch of Black tugs were after her . 

Say what..she had her panties on? What time was this chap? Musta been before six pm.

So you sayin had she removed said panties..the thugs woulda lef she alone?

Imran posted:

You have to choose your fight. A Indian will have a disagreement with a Blackman and the crowd will grow...  99% of blacks have no idea what the issue was , but would be involved to defend their breathern and behave like they were there from the starting. 

I live in Plaisance for 10 years, never had a problem...  

They are a bully type and quick to cry racialism . They believed they are entitled to the world... bread and butter MUST be there for them . 

Too many black  kids are born out of wedlock , no father support and guidance for the kids ... this is there problem. 

Caribny , this video is for you... you have a problem, take it up with the Pastor. 

Imran where did you find that pastor from?  That man needs to spend some time reading Rodney.

 
Imran posted:

You have to choose your fight. A Indian will have a disagreement with a Blackman and the crowd will grow...  99% of blacks have no idea what the issue was , but would be involved to defend their breathern and behave like they were there from the starting. 

I live in Plaisance for 10 years, never had a problem...  

They are a bully type and quick to cry racialism . They believed they are entitled to the world... bread and butter MUST be there for them

Too many black  kids are born out of wedlock , no father support and guidance for the kids ... this is there problem. 

 

 

This is the man Imran who called me an indian racist who hates Africans.               

Drugb posted:

This bai djangy trying to rewrite history. In my time, a black could smack an indian with impunity. They even jump ahead of you in the guylines and nothing you could say or do because they get their pnc goons to manners you. 

With a little investigation you haven't spent a lot of time in the homeland,your adult life was not many years,I had two stints in Georgetown,1970 to 1973 was living at Durban and Smith St,went back to my home town in the country,came back to work form 1976 to 1985 in Robb Street,travelled daily from home to GT,was never bullied by any blacks,I have earned respect from some in a neighboring village after I stood up to few,who thinks this Coolie is a walkover,my dougla friend who observed what was taking place came out and said any touches me will also have to face him.I am a fear less person,ganging up don't intimidate.

ba$eman posted:
Django posted:

I lived during the PNC rule in Guyana,family,friends and myself never considered our selves as "Second Class Citizens".I can't recall being treated that way we were free to go any where,no invasion of our villages by PNC supporters.Indians were allowed to run their businesses.Burnham was surrounded by Indians.The Region i reside in there were two Indian Regional Chairman.Indians held top positions at the Regional Offices,Indian Headmasters,teachers..etc..

I can recall in the early 70's was living in Georgetown would walk from Plaza Cinema to Durban and Smith St,where i reside,passing Metropole Cinema 12 in the night and no one bothered me.

I can go..on..and..on

What's your story???

Django, you are a "holocaust" denier.  But you may have a point, Indians were not 2nd class citizens, but 7th class among the six races and the dougla.  How tight do you hold your nose when you write such swill?

You could go on and on and you moved onto the USA!

Well Base dunno what kind of "holocaust" you are talking about,maybe East Indians from Guyana,if that is so i will present two pieces of information for you to look at,click on link and see attachment.

By the way will appreciate a response after reviewing.



https://books.google.com/books...20guyana&f=false

 

 

Attachments

Photos (1)
seignet posted:
ba$eman posted:
Django posted:

I lived during the PNC rule in Guyana,family,friends and myself never considered our selves as "Second Class Citizens".I can't recall being treated that way we were free to go any where,no invasion of our villages by PNC supporters.Indians were allowed to run their businesses.Burnham was surrounded by Indians.The Region i reside in there were two Indian Regional Chairman.Indians held top positions at the Regional Offices,Indian Headmasters,teachers..etc..

I can recall in the early 70's was living in Georgetown would walk from Plaza Cinema to Durban and Smith St,where i reside,passing Metropole Cinema 12 in the night and no one bothered me.

I can go..on..and..on

What's your story???

Django, you are a "holocaust" denier.  But you may have a point, Indians were not 2nd class citizens, but 7th class among the six races and the dougla.  How tight do you hold your nose when you write such swill?

You could go on and on and you moved onto the USA!

D2 thinks he is great. I suppose if one abuses Indians, then D2 finds redeeming qualities in them.

Common sense and decency does not apply to Guyana. One has to choose sides. 

Oye Siggy,

me thinks you this post is on wrong thread.

Django's level of intelligence amazes me.

First, it is a personal feeling that the individual has. How can he hope to prove it wrong in the absence of that individual saying it doesn't exist in his/her  consciousness. 

Second. It is also a collective feeling. Collectively, Indo-Guyanese have innumerable anecdotal evidence to justify the statement that they felt and were second class citizens during the PNC/Burnham dictatorship. Many stories recounted here. And many others had the same experiences. I have my own experiences which I will not share because I have moved on and do not want to get into back and forth. Do not have the time. 

Third, through acts of commission and omission, the PNC/Burnham dictatorship encouraged acts of discrimination, violence, victimization, disenfranchment against Indo-Guyanese collectively and individually. I vividly remember Burnham giving a speech in one of his support areas to the effect that they searched for the gold, look who wears it and he does not have to tell them what to do to get it back. 

If one looks  there might be some  data to indicate what happened. However, much if the data was generated by the government and their agencies so were suspect. Who has the courage to tell the dictator that he was wearing no clothes?

There were acts of commission by a variety of actors. First, by  the government through its many departments. Second, The PNC as a party which became synonomous with the government and the state. Third, as the PNC/Burnham dictatorship gained control over the commanding heights of the economy, through these agencies. Fourth, through the military -the GDF which became an arm of the PNC and which committed overt and covert acts of violence and intimidation. Fifth,  the Guyana Police Force which also became an arm of the PNC. Sixth, The quasi-military National Service. Seventh, the agencies that the PNC/Burnham dictatorship set up such as the KSI, as it solidified the dictatorship. Seventh, various groups which it co-opted and they became shells to create a facade of representation. Eight, the international community, which for a long time closed their eyes and mouths to what was happening in Guyana. Nine, many Indian-Guyanese who drank the soup and helped to create a facade of inclusiveness. Tenth, as my brother keeps reminding me, the Indian-guyanese themselves because many were timid, unwilling, , intimidated, scared  to take action to protect their rights, "biah, a wah abe go du?" attitude.

 

 

ZED,

Basically some of the East Indians who claimed to be "Second Class Citizens" in their country of birth,was personal feeling and not documented,can you extrapolate why that amount felt that way,also i would very much appreciate if you can give some clarity to my level of "intelligence" that amazes you,I would accept it with no animosity from unknown in cyber world.

"Dhobis" have right to ask questions in my "view" they are equal to every other person in the human race,the medium to express one's opinion have changed,voices of the people are heard more frequently ,the highly intellectuals are more challenged in modern day to give answers.

The last paragraph in your post there is nothing that is stated that I am not aware of,that is how "Dictators" stay in power.

 

Prashad posted:
 
Imran posted:

You have to choose your fight. A Indian will have a disagreement with a Blackman and the crowd will grow...  99% of blacks have no idea what the issue was , but would be involved to defend their breathern and behave like they were there from the starting. 

I live in Plaisance for 10 years, never had a problem...  

They are a bully type and quick to cry racialism . They believed they are entitled to the world... bread and butter MUST be there for them

Too many black  kids are born out of wedlock , no father support and guidance for the kids ... this is there problem. 

 

 

This is the man Imran who called me an indian racist who hates Africans.               

Prashad , we need to move forward. I have so much near death  experiences, and I have stated a few on this forum. 

I did not call you an Indian racist, and if I came over that way .. my apologies bro . 

In our businesses ( Guyana) blacks do our banking. You take care of people they will watch out for you. 

Zed posted:

Django's level of intelligence amazes me.

First, it is a personal feeling that the individual has. How can he hope to prove it wrong in the absence of that individual saying it doesn't exist in his/her  consciousness. 

Second. It is also a collective feeling. Collectively, Indo-Guyanese have innumerable anecdotal evidence to justify the statement that they felt and were second class citizens during the PNC/Burnham dictatorship. Many stories recounted here. And many others had the same experiences. I have my own experiences which I will not share because I have moved on and do not want to get into back and forth. Do not have the time. 

Third, through acts of commission and omission, the PNC/Burnham dictatorship encouraged acts of discrimination, violence, victimization, disenfranchment against Indo-Guyanese collectively and individually. I vividly remember Burnham giving a speech in one of his support areas to the effect that they searched for the gold, look who wears it and he does not have to tell them what to do to get it back. 

If one looks  there might be some  data to indicate what happened. However, much if the data was generated by the government and their agencies so were suspect. Who has the courage to tell the dictator that he was wearing no clothes?

There were acts of commission by a variety of actors. First, by  the government through its many departments. Second, The PNC as a party which became synonomous with the government and the state. Third, as the PNC/Burnham dictatorship gained control over the commanding heights of the economy, through these agencies. Fourth, through the military -the GDF which became an arm of the PNC and which committed overt and covert acts of violence and intimidation. Fifth,  the Guyana Police Force which also became an arm of the PNC. Sixth, The quasi-military National Service. Seventh, the agencies that the PNC/Burnham dictatorship set up such as the KSI, as it solidified the dictatorship. Seventh, various groups which it co-opted and they became shells to create a facade of representation. Eight, the international community, which for a long time closed their eyes and mouths to what was happening in Guyana. Nine, many Indian-Guyanese who drank the soup and helped to create a facade of inclusiveness. Tenth, as my brother keeps reminding me, the Indian-guyanese themselves because many were timid, unwilling, , intimidated, scared  to take action to protect their rights, "biah, a wah abe go du?" attitude.

 

 

Well said Zed. 

The Indians always felt they had more to loose than a Blackman...Family Stability .

Says Django: "Indians were allowed to run their businesses."

Says Gilbakka: There are many ways to skin a cat. At Uitvlugt Pasture where I grew up, there were neighborhood shops owned by Sattaur, Azeez and others. Up to the 1973 election these shops' shelves were loaded with commodities. Then, slowly-slowly the shelves became bare. Why? Burnham restricted imported foods and other goods. In time those shops became shells of their former selves.

On the other hand, in Uitvlugt Casbah where there was a KSI outlet, the shelves were full of scarce commodities but preference was given to Casbah folks who were blacks. I am not blaming Casbah folks; they were always friendly and respectful to me. But the reality was that the Indian shops in Pasture became almost empty while the residents resorted to buying contraband goods.

No doubt about it; that period of Guyana's history was dismal, bleak, frustrating, and punishing particularly to ordinary working-class Indians. No amount of whitewashing will hide that.

Django posted:
Drugb posted:

This bai djangy trying to rewrite history. In my time, a black could smack an indian with impunity. They even jump ahead of you in the guylines and nothing you could say or do because they get their pnc goons to manners you. 

With a little investigation you haven't spent a lot of time in the homeland,your adult life was not many years,I had two stints in Georgetown,1970 to 1973 was living at Durban and Smith St,went back to my home town in the country,came back to work form 1976 to 1985 in Robb Street,travelled daily from home to GT,was never bullied by any blacks,I have earned respect from some in a neighboring village after I stood up to few,who thinks this Coolie is a walkover,my dougla friend who observed what was taking place came out and said any touches me will also have to face him.I am a fear less person,ganging up don't intimidate.

Great for you that you had a great experience among blacks. The rest of us who had to spend 100% time around them were victimized. I and a few others used to defend ourselves against the bullying, however the vast majority of Indians are passive, especially the women who the Afros bullied as they smell the blood of fear.  The black cops used to come to Indian place of business and take whatever they wanted, threatening to seize items if any fuss was made. 

Gill,

Thanks,for highlighting the Food import restriction,we are aware what caused that.

There was a KSI in our village, an Indian Dispenser rented his premises to the outlet,of course there were long lines,there was no preferences given to Indian or Blacks,my wifey used to join the line to purchase scarce items for resale as i mentioned for minimum profits,we befriended one of the salesman and was able to get in increased in volume than the amount that was allowed.

Django posted:

Gill,

Thanks,for highlighting the Food import restriction,we are aware what caused that.

There was a KSI in our village, an Indian Dispenser rented his premises to the outlet,of course there were long lines,there was no preferences given to Indian or Blacks,my wifey used to join the line to purchase scarce items for resale as i mentioned for minimum profits,we befriended one of the salesman and was able to get in increased in volume than the amount that was allowed.

You're just confirming my suspicion that you and your family profited from the PNC regime's nefarious policies. Opportunists! Profiteers!! Collaborators!!! 

And furthermore, I suspect you're determinedly supporting APNU because you hope to get more "minimum profits" when you return to retire in Guyana, by which time there might be food shortages again.

Vulture capitalist!!!

Django...

this is your post above...

I have earned respect from some in a neighboring village after I stood up to few,who thinks this Coolie is a walkover,my dougla friend who observed what was taking place came out and said any touches me will also have to face him.I am a fear less person,ganging up don't intimidate

 

WHY DID YOU STOOD UP...if you were not bully / intimidated.

Go have a drink of water , before you explain your self!!!

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