"Myth" Indians were Second Class Citizens under the PNC.

Django posted:

Imran,

I should start another thread why Indians was shut out for the Police Dept,will have to dig up some more info,one of the requirement was height 5 ft 8 inches,chest measurement, etc,how many Indians have that height??

What yo mean etc ... you have to measure the Middle foot also 

Imran posted:
Django posted:

Imran,

I should start another thread why Indians was shut out for the Police Dept,will have to dig up some more info,one of the requirement was height 5 ft 8 inches,chest measurement, etc,how many Indians have that height??

What yo mean etc ... you have to measure the Middle foot also 

Django posted:

Imran,

I should start another thread why Indians was shut out for the Police Dept,will have to dig up some more info,one of the requirement was height 5 ft 8 inches,chest measurement, etc,how many Indians have that height??

Our own Amral's mom seemed small in stature and yet she made it in the GPF. Perhaps most Indians and other races were not into joining the forces, they preffered to carry on their family's traditition or other avenues.

Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Django's testimony to counter charges of discrimination against the PNC regime is not unusual.  The PNC wasted no time in getting Indos to say that there was no rigged elections nor discrimination against Indians in Guyana.  All governments do this.  The White government of South Africa boasted of black millionaires and responsible black leaders. Pakistan staged demonstrations against India using Pakinstani Hindus to discredit any charge of religious intolerance in the Islamic State.  By the way, Pakistan's first Justice minister was a Hindu who returned to India in the sixties. 

Django's BS cannot fool us.  Let him give his definition of a second class citizen and we will take it from there.

I have stated never felt like a "Second Class Citizen",maybe because i worked in the Private Sector,individuals who worked in the Public Sector may have different experiences,I am aware there was discrimination in the Sugar Industry where YSM boys got top jobs with no experience.There was a square peg Factory Manager at Uitvlugt Estate.

Then why do you stated so boldly that it's a myth that Indians were second class citizens under the PNC?  

Do you think Blacks were second class citizens under the previous government? 

GTAngler posted:

Not all coolie shart. I know some tall banas. One ah dem from Essequibo we used to call Kid. Dat chap used to stoop suh he head won't hit the top of the doorway. Ole man had some indo friends in police force too.

Not much tall Indos,one of my good Indo friend was CID,he was 6 ft and big fella,sad he passed away in NY City,heart attack at young age.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Django posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Django's testimony to counter charges of discrimination against the PNC regime is not unusual.  The PNC wasted no time in getting Indos to say that there was no rigged elections nor discrimination against Indians in Guyana.  All governments do this.  The White government of South Africa boasted of black millionaires and responsible black leaders. Pakistan staged demonstrations against India using Pakinstani Hindus to discredit any charge of religious intolerance in the Islamic State.  By the way, Pakistan's first Justice minister was a Hindu who returned to India in the sixties. 

Django's BS cannot fool us.  Let him give his definition of a second class citizen and we will take it from there.

I have stated never felt like a "Second Class Citizen",maybe because i worked in the Private Sector,individuals who worked in the Public Sector may have different experiences,I am aware there was discrimination in the Sugar Industry where YSM boys got top jobs with no experience.There was a square peg Factory Manager at Uitvlugt Estate.

Then why do you stated so boldly that it's a myth that Indians were second class citizens under the PNC?  

Do you think Blacks were second class citizens under the previous government? 

Some indo folks thinks we were Second Class.

Nah bhai,we all have the same rights.

Prashad posted:
at I am a racist for wanting the peaceful creation of a nation

Why don't you focus on your fear of your wife's temper instead. You have never indicated that she is in support of a nation where she would be a second class person, acceptable only at the discretion of others.

No doubt she knows all about Israel and about the Indo Pak fiasco, so knows fully well that a nation established for one religion/ethnicity will never treat others as equals.

Imran posted:

I suggest that you cease whining about the raping part. That was revealed to be a lie revealing the huge sexual inadequacies that certain ageing Indian man have. That did NOT happen. 

Notable that those who frequently whine about black men raping Indos, NEVER speak about the fact that most Indo rape victims are likely to have been raped by other Indians.

Discuss the fact that most rapes in Guyana are committed by men who are known to the victim, suggesting that most Indo females are raped by Indo men.

skeldon_man posted:
 

Prash, I tell you what brother. I am with you with your sovereign nation. Only coolies will be allowed. We will ask India to adopt us as a state, just like Puerto Rico. No blacks or douglas allowed. Any niggro

Funny thing about this. Indians from India see you all as cultural douglas and some might even refer to you as "niggro".

And of course they see you as descended from the poorest people from the poorest part of India. Not sure that the equity that you seek you will get.

Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
 

Prash, I tell you what brother. I am with you with your sovereign nation. Only coolies will be allowed. We will ask India to adopt us as a state, just like Puerto Rico. No blacks or douglas allowed. Any niggro caught in the country will be castrated and enslaved for life. When they are too old to work, we will build moco moco rafts and set them sailing at the mouth of the Berbice river. No Chinese, Putagees etc.Only dalits.

Oh skites Skelly,

that was what the early East Indians wanted,wondering if my Great Grandfather had that same thought.

And this desire on the part of te BGEIA is what jump started the growing ethnic divide. Already alarmed at being tossed aside as more and more Indian indentures arrived in Guyana the black/mixed middle classes became extremely alarmed when some wanted BG to be annexed to India, or to turn BG into some remote Indian "colony".

VVP posted:
.  

All top positions in the government, army and police were African dominated except for token Indians.  What else would it take to make you a second class citizen when you cannot get to the highest level you are capable of?

Hoyte tried to change things but the Burnham structure was hard to break.

So using your criteria blacks were second class under the PPP. Aside from the army virtually all of the top slots were occupied by Indians and even Luncheon admitted this when he was asked about this by Nigel Hughes as part of the Jagdeo vs. Kissoon law suit.

And don't pretend that the Afro leadership of the GDF/GPF were a sign of Indo weakness either as these were carefully selected by Jagdeo. Indians refused to join those entities even when Jagan begged them to do after after 1992.  So clearly few were in the pipeline to occupy leadership roles.

GTAngler posted:

Amazing. Your own commit the same crimes against you so shut up. 

You scream that only blacks attacked Indians in the 60s. So I suggest that you follow your own advice. I see that I was right to christen you a member of the Indo KKK.

GTAngler posted:

Amazing. Your own commit the same crimes against you so shut up. May we have some numbers and instances to support your "Are likely to have been" and "suggesting that" premise?

Antabanta is asking for a source for that daylight rape on Regent St where  scores of Indian women were being raped and these acts cheered by crowds of blacks.  This was peddled by Ravi Dev who is a known racist who claims that blacks have done nothing for Guyana, and in fact scoffs when people say that he was wrong. A man who damns blacks as a savage lot.

THAT story has been long discredited.  But no doubt you support Ravi Dev so nothing new from you here.

Now it is a known fact that most raped victims are raped by men who they know. Given this fact and the reality that Guyana is an ethnically polarized nation it is likely that most Indian rape victims are in fact raped by Indian men.  It is up to YOU to suggest otherwise.

caribny posted:
GTAngler posted:

Amazing. Your own commit the same crimes against you so shut up. 

You scream that only blacks attacked Indians in the 60s. So I suggest that you follow your own advice. I see that I was right to christen you a member of the Indo KKK.

Oye "GADAHA", read what I wrote.....

Let me preface this by saying I am not PNC or PPP. Correct me if I am wrong since this is what was passed on to me. Indians did not go into black areas during the riots. It was the blacks who went where the Indians lived. Now honestly, I can't remember any taunts Indians had for blacks because once again I never experienced any situation where the antagonist was Indian. I am not saying there weren't any. I do remember the "monkey" comments and such but as I remember those were internal, meaning within the Indian community and directed at blacks. No one is nursing hurts. I brought this up in response to race not being dominant in Guyana's politics. We need to remember and understand the past before we can move forward. As Santayana said," those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".   

caribny posted:
GTAngler posted:

Low blow man. Can we keep this to the people actually involved?

Involved in what. The hypocrisy of a man who married a non Indian and then rages daily on the need for an Indo only nation.

I meant keep it to the people here involved in these discussions. No need to bring his wife in. That shows the desperation in your feeble arguing.

caribny posted:
GTAngler posted:

Amazing. Your own commit the same crimes against you so shut up. May we have some numbers and instances to support your "Are likely to have been" and "suggesting that" premise?

Antabanta is asking for a source for that daylight rape on Regent St where  scores of Indian women were being raped and these acts cheered by crowds of blacks.  This was peddled by Ravi Dev who is a known racist who claims that blacks have done nothing for Guyana, and in fact scoffs when people say that he was wrong. A man who damns blacks as a savage lot.

THAT story has been long discredited.  But no doubt you support Ravi Dev so nothing new from you here.

Now it is a known fact that most raped victims are raped by men who they know. Given this fact and the reality that Guyana is an ethnically polarized nation it is likely that most Indian rape victims are in fact raped by Indian men.  It is up to YOU to suggest otherwise.

I was referring to your "suggesting" and "likely" generalization not that incident. So substantiate your "known facts" or shut up........

antabanta posted:
Imran posted:

In 2001 , Indians were rape and strip of their clothing on Regent St by blacks in broad day light. Indians businesses were set on fire. 

http://www.guyanaundersiege.com/ethnic%20crimes.htm

Can you or the author substantiate this story? I was on Regent Street close to Acme on the same date and time and saw no such incident.

I was at Thrifty Variety Store , when a female was rescued by SN. Singh store owner , she came from King St . The same direction of Acme .. surprised you miss that. She had her panties on and a bunch of Black tugs were after her . 

Chameli posted:
Django posted:

I lived during the PNC rule in Guyana,family,friends and myself never considered our selves as "Second Class Citizens".I can't recall being treated that way we were free to go any where,no invasion of our villages by PNC supporters.Indians were allowed to run their businesses.Burnham was surrounded by Indians.The Region i reside in there were two Indian Regional Chairman.Indians held top positions at the Regional Offices,Indian Headmasters,teachers..etc..

I can recall in the early 70's was living in Georgetown would walk from Plaza Cinema to Durban and Smith St,where i reside,passing Metropole Cinema 12 in the night and no one bothered me.

I can go..on..and..on

What's your story???

Django, was one of those ppl RN SINGH????

 Cham not sure,I am only recalling,Raymond,Rupee and Chowritmotoo.

Refresh my memory where RN SINGH lived.

Rupee was very helpful with Rice,he will drop off and come back for payment later,we had a small Grocery Store supplying Neighborhood it was a hobby for wifey,she grew up in business,minimum profits,Blacks also supported we gave credit when money was tight.He also got us the License to operate,I used to fix his Electronics Equipment.

When i bought my first car i took folks to Hospital for free,get them immediate attention,had friends [Doctors at the Hospital],when driving on the road any one regardless of color,if any help is needed i will inquire and assist without taking a dime.

When i am blasted here for not helping the poor,i just laugh it off.

Django posted:
Chameli posted:
Django posted:

I lived during the PNC rule in Guyana,family,friends and myself never considered our selves as "Second Class Citizens".I can't recall being treated that way we were free to go any where,no invasion of our villages by PNC supporters.Indians were allowed to run their businesses.Burnham was surrounded by Indians.The Region i reside in there were two Indian Regional Chairman.Indians held top positions at the Regional Offices,Indian Headmasters,teachers..etc..

I can recall in the early 70's was living in Georgetown would walk from Plaza Cinema to Durban and Smith St,where i reside,passing Metropole Cinema 12 in the night and no one bothered me.

I can go..on..and..on

What's your story???

Django, was one of those ppl RN SINGH????

 Cham not sure,I am only recalling,Raymond,Rupee and Chowritmotoo.

Refresh my memory where RN SINGH lived.

Rupee was very helpful with Rice,he will drop off and come back for payment later,we had a small Grocery Store supplying Neighborhood it was a hobby for wifey,she grew up in business,minimum profits,Blacks also supported we gave credit when money was tight.He also got us the License to operate,I used to fix his Electronics Equipment.

When i bought my first car i took folks to Hospital for free,get them immediate attention,had friends [Doctors at the Hospital],when driving on the road any one regardless of color,if any help is needed i will inquire and assist without taking a dime.

When i am blasted here for not helping the poor,i just laugh it off.

Hey is it true you take Mohammed Electronic customer and cause the store to close 

Imran posted:
 

Hey is it true you take Mohammed Electronic customer and cause the store to close 

In the beginning not much a few, after left used to stop by and give the tech tips,we still had a good relationship,the store close for other reasons,talked to him a while back never asked,he is in Canada.When i migrate the store was still there.

Popular Businessman on the WCD[recently passed away] helped with a lot of Customers.

Django posted:
Imran posted:
 

Hey is it true you take Mohammed Electronic customer and cause the store to close 

In the beginning not much a few, after left used to stop by and give the tech tips,we still had a good relationship,the store close for other reasons,talked to him a while back never asked,he is in Canada.When i migrate the store was still there.

Popular Businessman on the WCD[recently passed away] helped with a lot of Customers.

Trying to push my memory, you used to be in the back room but occasionally would come to the counter answering customer questions. You're about 5' 4 ... shirt out of the pants. Couldn't remember seeing you with the shirt jack except the boss man 

Imran posted:
Django posted:
Imran posted:
 

Hey is it true you take Mohammed Electronic customer and cause the store to close 

In the beginning not much a few, after left used to stop by and give the tech tips,we still had a good relationship,the store close for other reasons,talked to him a while back never asked,he is in Canada.When i migrate the store was still there.

Popular Businessman on the WCD[recently passed away] helped with a lot of Customers.

Trying to push my memory, you used to be in the back room but occasionally would come to the counter answering customer questions. You're about 5' 4 ... shirt out of the pants. Couldn't remember seeing you with the shirt jack except the boss man 

Never wore Shirt Jack,repair shop was next door east of the Main Store,true sometimes i was called to advise customers.

I am 5' 7, you bringing back memory,"picture of myself with test equipment repairing a VCR" was on a Year Calendar,that was the advertisement.

GTAngler posted:
 

Indians did not go into black areas during the riots. It was the blacks who went where the Indians lived.

Oh I see so Wismar wasn't a black area.

 

Listen. Some one, most likely the PYO blew up the Son Chapman, most likely as retribution for some act of brutality that the YSM committed.  And that act because of something that the PYO did.  Which in turn was a tit for tat.

That was what 1964 in particular was all about. Only a dishonest dog or some one very ignorant of this period will attempt to pretend as if one race was more innocent than the other.

I know you lie because I know that you were raised with the specter of Wismar, so to claim that you thought that Indians didn't go into black areas during the riots is pure BULL!

Imran posted:
. She had her panties on

Her panties on and this was a rape? 

No doubt she was being attacked by some hooligans but it is of note that you don't mention the numbers of blacks, INCLUDING WOMEN, who at risk to themselves went to rescue Indians and drive them out of dangerous areas, in some instances even taking them home.

GTAngler posted:

Cuz, you put the KAKA in KAKAHOLE. You completely left out the highlighted part. You're a complete waste of time.

I left that out because I know that you are fully aware of Wismar which is one of the most black urban areas in Guyana.    So if Indians didn't go into black areas than how come they were there.   You should have figured out that who ever told you that Indians were these innocent folks was telling only one side of the story.

GTAngler posted:

Cuz, you put the KAKA in KAKAHOLE. You completely left out the highlighted part. You're a complete waste of time.

Hahahaha.  You catching on to his trick.  He always take one line out of what you write and twist it and bend it and throw it back - completely out of context.  Give him 5 more minutes, he will start to call you Indo KKK!!!!

Bibi Haniffa posted:
GTAngler posted:

Cuz, you put the KAKA in KAKAHOLE. You completely left out the highlighted part. You're a complete waste of time.

 He always take one line out of what you write and twist it and bend it and throw it back -

Both you and GTAngler have written more than one line and neither of you are cognizant of the fact that there are narratives in Guyana beyond that of the Indian or of the PPP supporter. So I will remind you of this.

Bibi Haniffa posted:
GTAngler posted:

Cuz, you put the KAKA in KAKAHOLE. You completely left out the highlighted part. You're a complete waste of time.

Hahahaha.  You catching on to his trick.  He always take one line out of what you write and twist it and bend it and throw it back - completely out of context.  Give him 5 more minutes, he will start to call you Indo KKK!!!!

As long as he addresses me as Grand Wizard AND is prepared for what I throw back.   

Imran posted:
antabanta posted:
Imran posted:

In 2001 , Indians were rape and strip of their clothing on Regent St by blacks in broad day light. Indians businesses were set on fire. 

http://www.guyanaundersiege.com/ethnic%20crimes.htm

Can you or the author substantiate this story? I was on Regent Street close to Acme on the same date and time and saw no such incident.

I was at Thrifty Variety Store , when a female was rescued by SN. Singh store owner , she came from King St . The same direction of Acme .. surprised you miss that. She had her panties on and a bunch of Black tugs were after her . 

I did miss that one. How many indians were raped and stripped on Regent St in broad daylight?

Django posted:

Where is my Frenno Gilly ?? you peep and gone, you gat nothing to add here bhai.

Look, comrade, I read your opening statement all right. I think you bend forward too low, or backward too far, to make your point. You did not feel like a second-class citizen and I refused to consider myself a second-class citizen in my native land. But it was no bloody paradise under the PNC regime. That is why I joined the PPP in 1969, to help bring about change.

Cheddi Jagan never got tired repeating that the Burnham regime practised racial and political discrimination not only in employment and promotions but also in awarding contracts and permits and so on. Jagan talked about nepotism and favoritism in the PNC government.

I worked one year as a government-school teacher and six years as a public servant while at the same time being a PPP activist. I conducted myself professionally on the job and kept party politics out. While I was not personally harassed in the workplace, I know of many others who suffered terribly and were kicked out on to the street.

Outa de wukplace, here is my unfortunate experience:

[1] One Sunday afternoon in 1972 I placed my paperback book on someone's bicycle at Metropole Cinema to comb my hair. I walked to the ticket booth without the book. When I went back to the cycle rack the book had disappeared. In one minute.

[2] One Saturday night in 1973 I took a girlfriend to Globe cinema. Big crowd by the ticket booth. I removed my watch from my wrist and placed it in my pants pocket. I joined the crush to buy tickets. When we sat down in Balcony, there was no watch in my pocket. Obviously, a master pickpocket got it.

[3] One Sunday night in 1978, after visiting another girlfriend at Ogle, I walked through Old Road to the Public Road. A well-dressed black guy was standing there. I asked him if he was waiting long for transportation and he shook his head in the negative. I turned away and was looking out for a hire care when suddenly that guy lifted my hand and took my watch. With a small pistol pointing at my stomach he took my wallet from my pocket and said: Don't stand hey. Turn back." I had $20.50 in the wallet, so I asked him for the 50 cents for car fare. He said: F you. Go long yuh way." And he jammed the gun to my chest. I turned back and slept in Ogle that night.

[4] One Tuesday night in 1981 I was riding my spanking new blue Caloi bicycle on Irving Street. At the junction of Woolford Avenue where there was a zebra crossing, I pulled the brake to allow a fat black man to pass. As soon as he was in front me, he swung his fists and gave me a few cuffs on my face. I let go of the cycle and he rode away with it down dark Woolford Avenue. That night a doctor applied 4 stitches to my lip at the public hospital.

[5] Another time, broad daylight, I was walking on Robb Street when, in front Cho-Kit-Ling Bar a guy came up and tried to snatch my watch. He didn't get it.

[6] One July night in 1992, I was walking on Longden Street when suddenly I felt a seemingly friendly hug on my shoulder and heard a guy saying: "Wha happening, friend!!" while he was trying to relieve me of my watch. Well, I pulled my hand away and had the presence of mind to say: "You don't know a police officer when you see one?" He hesitated but won't move. I told him to get lost before I summon my "squaddy" who was patrolling in front Demico House. He walked. I could have tried that policeman tack on him because I'm tall and had recently got a haircut. I was lucky. 

cain posted:
Django posted:

Imran,

I should start another thread why Indians was shut out for the Police Dept,will have to dig up some more info,one of the requirement was height 5 ft 8 inches,chest measurement, etc,how many Indians have that height??

Our own Amral's mom seemed small in stature and yet she made it in the GPF. Perhaps most Indians and other races were not into joining the forces, they preffered to carry on their family's traditition or other avenues.

Amral's mom is a good role model for the young East Indian females of Guyana.

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