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It is up to the police to determine whether former president Bharrat Jagdeo has immunity in the Pradoville 2 probe, according to State Minister Joseph Harmon, who yesterday argued that the constitutional protection cannot necessarily save a president from judicial intervention and criminal prosecution.

Article 182 of the Constitution provides for immunity for a president. It states that a president cannot be charged for offences committed while in office and that a president is protected from being personally answerable to the courts whether in civil or criminal proceedings for actions done while in office.

Harmon was asked at yesterday’s post-Cabinet press briefing about government’s views on the Article and whether there will be any moves to change it. In response, he said that the constitution is very clear on issues relating to immunity of a sitting president who takes certain steps while he is in office. That is respected, he said, before saying that he believed it must be one of the matters to be looked at in the constitutional reform process.

“…Certainly even though there are immunities, there are certain exceptions because you cannot commit an egregious type of act—which is something that an international court or anybody can deem to be as such—and still believe that nothing will happen,” he said while making reference to the recent impeachment of South Korean President Park Geun-hye.

Former president Bharrat Jagdeo speaks with reporters after he was questioned by SOCU investigators

“The court determined that there were enough grounds for that president to be impeached and she was impeached and most likely she will also face criminal charges,” he said.

Jagdeo, who is now the Leader of the Opposition, was arrested at his office on Tuesday by officers of the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU), who questioned him about the sale of land at Pradoville 2 at undervalued prices to members who served in his Cabinet.

Jagdeo later told reporters that he invoked his presidential immunity after being questioned and was subsequently told that he was free to go. “I asked, ‘Are you asking me questions in my private capacity or my official capacity at that time? ’Cause if you are doing that, you are going to breach the veil of official immunity for official acts. That will have far reaching consequences in this country because anything that [President David] Granger does as president in his official capacity too will be challenged,” he said, while adding that the SOCU officers did not answer his questions.

Harmon, who is an attorney, was asked about Jagdeo’s invocation of immunity and he quickly pointed out that it is up to the police to make that determination and he made it clear that the government will not interfere in the investigation, which is being done by an arm of the police force, SOCU.

Noting that government has been investing heavily in the training of law enforcement officials with the assistance of friendly countries, Harmon said that the investigators are sufficiently equipped to face whatever issues may arise. “On the question of immunity, they will determine that at that point in time whether in fact immunity exists, whether it is covered by the offence that is allegedly committed by an individual and this is the kind of additional training that our policemen are receiving and so when issues of immunity arise, it will be dealt with right there at the police station because the policemen have been given that additional training and they know exactly what has to be done,” he said.

Harmon noted that Article 182 basically gives immunity to the president while he is in office but added that the situation in Guyana has evolved. “…The anticipation I believe [and] the expectation of the framers of our constitution was that a president, once he leaves office, will basically have a more quiet, sedate life but the situation in Guyana is totally different. They have people who have been in office as president and are now in the National Assembly,” he said, before questioning if the protection still exists now that the former president is once more active in politics. “So how could you now claim those immunities while you are actively engaged in day-to-day politics?’ he questioned.

Harmon also said that government has had problems with a former president who writes almost every week in the newspapers and says things that need to be dealt with. “Usually a president is given certain levels of courtesy but if in fact by their actions after they leave office they descend into the arena, then I would say that you would have to be dealt with by the persons in the arena,” he said, making an apparent reference to former president Donald Ramotar.

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Django posted:

Source

It is up to the police to determine whether former president Bharrat Jagdeo has immunity in the Pradoville 2 probe, according to State Minister Joseph Harmon, who yesterday argued that the constitutional protection cannot necessarily save a president from judicial intervention and criminal prosecution.

Article 182 of the Constitution provides for immunity for a president. It states that a president cannot be charged for offences committed while in office and that a president is protected from being personally answerable to the courts whether in civil or criminal proceedings for actions done while in office.

Harmon was asked at yesterday’s post-Cabinet press briefing about government’s views on the Article and whether there will be any moves to change it. In response, he said that the constitution is very clear on issues relating to immunity of a sitting president who takes certain steps while he is in office. That is respected, he said, before saying that he believed it must be one of the matters to be looked at in the constitutional reform process.

“…Certainly even though there are immunities, there are certain exceptions because you cannot commit an egregious type of act—which is something that an international court or anybody can deem to be as such—and still believe that nothing will happen,” he said while making reference to the recent impeachment of South Korean President Park Geun-hye.

Former president Bharrat Jagdeo speaks with reporters after he was questioned by SOCU investigators

“The court determined that there were enough grounds for that president to be impeached and she was impeached and most likely she will also face criminal charges,” he said.

Jagdeo, who is now the Leader of the Opposition, was arrested at his office on Tuesday by officers of the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU), who questioned him about the sale of land at Pradoville 2 at undervalued prices to members who served in his Cabinet.

Jagdeo later told reporters that he invoked his presidential immunity after being questioned and was subsequently told that he was free to go. “I asked, ‘Are you asking me questions in my private capacity or my official capacity at that time? ’Cause if you are doing that, you are going to breach the veil of official immunity for official acts. That will have far reaching consequences in this country because anything that [President David] Granger does as president in his official capacity too will be challenged,” he said, while adding that the SOCU officers did not answer his questions.

Harmon, who is an attorney, was asked about Jagdeo’s invocation of immunity and he quickly pointed out that it is up to the police to make that determination and he made it clear that the government will not interfere in the investigation, which is being done by an arm of the police force, SOCU.

Noting that government has been investing heavily in the training of law enforcement officials with the assistance of friendly countries, Harmon said that the investigators are sufficiently equipped to face whatever issues may arise. “On the question of immunity, they will determine that at that point in time whether in fact immunity exists, whether it is covered by the offence that is allegedly committed by an individual and this is the kind of additional training that our policemen are receiving and so when issues of immunity arise, it will be dealt with right there at the police station because the policemen have been given that additional training and they know exactly what has to be done,” he said.

Harmon noted that Article 182 basically gives immunity to the president while he is in office but added that the situation in Guyana has evolved. “…The anticipation I believe [and] the expectation of the framers of our constitution was that a president, once he leaves office, will basically have a more quiet, sedate life but the situation in Guyana is totally different. They have people who have been in office as president and are now in the National Assembly,” he said, before questioning if the protection still exists now that the former president is once more active in politics. “So how could you now claim those immunities while you are actively engaged in day-to-day politics?’ he questioned.

Harmon also said that government has had problems with a former president who writes almost every week in the newspapers and says things that need to be dealt with. “Usually a president is given certain levels of courtesy but if in fact by their actions after they leave office they descend into the arena, then I would say that you would have to be dealt with by the persons in the arena,” he said, making an apparent reference to former president Donald Ramotar.

Guyana is being run by a pack of dumb-asses ! Braaad-nose Haarman said immunity will be determined by the police ! This ugly donkey, a senior minister in the government, does not know that it is the court that determines interpretation/application/relevance of statutes !!     

K

 This is like a big joke. The police are the top dunces in Guyana. This is no secret, remember your High School days, these were the low achievers who became policeman. I recall a failure at Zeeburg SS who was employed as a fowl Kaka welder at ICBU, then became a policeman and as the story goes made it to the Asst. Commissioner.

 

R
randolph posted:

 This is like a big joke. The police are the top dunces in Guyana. This is no secret, remember your High School days, these were the low achievers who became policeman. I recall a failure at Zeeburg SS who was employed as a fowl Kaka welder at ICBU, then became a policeman and as the story goes made it to the Asst. Commissioner.

 

ICBU = Ignatius Charles Bourda Uitvlugt, aka Uitvlugt sugar estate, aka Bourda. Ignatius was a 19th century Dutch owner of the plantation before the Booker brothers bought it.

FM
randolph posted:

 This is like a big joke. The police are the top dunces in Guyana. This is no secret, remember your High School days, these were the low achievers who became policeman. I recall a failure at Zeeburg SS who was employed as a fowl Kaka welder at ICBU, then became a policeman and as the story goes made it to the Asst. Commissioner.

 

Is a fowl welder one who attaches a cock to a hen? 

cain
cain posted:
randolph posted:

 This is like a big joke. The police are the top dunces in Guyana. This is no secret, remember your High School days, these were the low achievers who became policeman. I recall a failure at Zeeburg SS who was employed as a fowl Kaka welder at ICBU, then became a policeman and as the story goes made it to the Asst. Commissioner.

 

Is a fowl welder one who attaches a cock to a hen? 

Maybe there is still hope for you? How long have you been looking for one of these guys?

FM
Django posted:

Source

It is up to the police to determine whether former president Bharrat Jagdeo has immunity in the Pradoville 2 probe, according to State Minister Joseph Harmon, who yesterday argued that the constitutional protection cannot necessarily save a president from judicial intervention and criminal prosecution.

Article 182 of the Constitution provides for immunity for a president. It states that a president cannot be charged for offences committed while in office and that a president is protected from being personally answerable to the courts whether in civil or criminal proceedings for actions done while in office.

Harmon was asked at yesterday’s post-Cabinet press briefing about government’s views on the Article and whether there will be any moves to change it. In response, he said that the constitution is very clear on issues relating to immunity of a sitting president who takes certain steps while he is in office. That is respected, he said, before saying that he believed it must be one of the matters to be looked at in the constitutional reform process.

“…Certainly even though there are immunities, there are certain exceptions because you cannot commit an egregious type of act—which is something that an international court or anybody can deem to be as such—and still believe that nothing will happen,” he said while making reference to the recent impeachment of South Korean President Park Geun-hye.

Former president Bharrat Jagdeo speaks with reporters after he was questioned by SOCU investigators

“The court determined that there were enough grounds for that president to be impeached and she was impeached and most likely she will also face criminal charges,” he said.

Jagdeo, who is now the Leader of the Opposition, was arrested at his office on Tuesday by officers of the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU), who questioned him about the sale of land at Pradoville 2 at undervalued prices to members who served in his Cabinet.

Jagdeo later told reporters that he invoked his presidential immunity after being questioned and was subsequently told that he was free to go. “I asked, ‘Are you asking me questions in my private capacity or my official capacity at that time? ’Cause if you are doing that, you are going to breach the veil of official immunity for official acts. That will have far reaching consequences in this country because anything that [President David] Granger does as president in his official capacity too will be challenged,” he said, while adding that the SOCU officers did not answer his questions.

Harmon, who is an attorney, was asked about Jagdeo’s invocation of immunity and he quickly pointed out that it is up to the police to make that determination and he made it clear that the government will not interfere in the investigation, which is being done by an arm of the police force, SOCU.

Noting that government has been investing heavily in the training of law enforcement officials with the assistance of friendly countries, Harmon said that the investigators are sufficiently equipped to face whatever issues may arise. “On the question of immunity, they will determine that at that point in time whether in fact immunity exists, whether it is covered by the offence that is allegedly committed by an individual and this is the kind of additional training that our policemen are receiving and so when issues of immunity arise, it will be dealt with right there at the police station because the policemen have been given that additional training and they know exactly what has to be done,” he said.

Harmon noted that Article 182 basically gives immunity to the president while he is in office but added that the situation in Guyana has evolved. “…The anticipation I believe [and] the expectation of the framers of our constitution was that a president, once he leaves office, will basically have a more quiet, sedate life but the situation in Guyana is totally different. They have people who have been in office as president and are now in the National Assembly,” he said, before questioning if the protection still exists now that the former president is once more active in politics. “So how could you now claim those immunities while you are actively engaged in day-to-day politics?’ he questioned.

Harmon also said that government has had problems with a former president who writes almost every week in the newspapers and says things that need to be dealt with. “Usually a president is given certain levels of courtesy but if in fact by their actions after they leave office they descend into the arena, then I would say that you would have to be dealt with by the persons in the arena,” he said, making an apparent reference to former president Donald Ramotar.

Guyana is being run by a pack of dumb-asses ! Braaad-nose Haarman said immunity will be determined by the police ! This ugly donkey, a senior minister in the government, does not know that it is the court that determines interpretation/application/relevance of statutes !!     

K

Not only the Jackass is a senior minister but he is a lawyer by profession. He should review what he said ....and our senior PNC Comrade Mr Django highlite and post , I guess his interpretation of the constitution is the same as Jackass Joe.

FM
Imran posted:

Not only the Jackass is a senior minister but he is a lawyer by profession. He should review what he said ....and our senior PNC Comrade Mr Django highlite and post , I guess his interpretation of the constitution is the same as Jackass Joe.

Is Harmon a lawyer ? You may wish to check/verify that. I was under the impression that he was a career soldier. 

K

Ha..ha..ha BJ shading himself from prosecution invoking the Article[s] from Burnham the despot 1980 Constitution,hilarious.. anyway the big bad Indian Savior going down,Constitution will not save him.

Bhai Imran take note of this post,you could have left out all the words that distinguish my nick,that is fine.

Django
Last edited by Django

Bud don't worry, at the end of the day all of us ... Indians, Black, pink , blue .... suffered at the hands of these politicians.

i have personal connections with PPP ,was  jail, had guns pointed at me as a pooling agent ... had to get a fire arm license due to my business... was shot 5" away from my Heart but had to paid my way from Gajrag up to get my gun license . Ramotar turn the other side when he was approached.

Dad was a chairman for ppp ... talk about it at party meeting.... 

Any how , don't agree with the crap going on with PPP ... the honest truth, no one ever heard about Jagdeo while we were sacrificing our livelihood for PPP . He deserve credit for what he did though.

The PPP stigma is in my blood and can't let it go . 

What would Indians do without PPP ???

Still have businesses in Guyana and pay my taxes.

FM

"the honest truth, no one ever heard about Jagdeo while we were sacrificing our livelihood for PPP"


That's the truth,

that party does use you well and prappa then discard yuh.

The Indians will survive,some one will take the torch and faithfully represent their interest.

Damn you had some tough times,thankfully you pull thru.

Django
Django posted:

Ha..ha..ha BJ shading himself from prosecution invoking the Article[s] from Burnham the despot 1980 Constitution,hilarious.. anyway the big bad Indian Savior going down,Constitution will not save him.

Bhai Imran take note of this post,you could have left out all the words that distinguish my nick,that is fine.

This Chap is as STUPID as one can possibly get!!!  Filth Head would be too dignified a Title for him!!!!!!

Nehru

Granger may be hot now, but wait until the water gets cold.  His turn will come very soon.   Who said that seizing Government's properties from the PPP and then keeping them for yourself, isn't a crime?

Squandering tax payer's money isn't a crime?

Using tax payer's money for party use isn't a crime?

Is it only when the PPP does it is  crime?

 

 

R
Django posted:

Ha..ha..ha BJ shading himself from prosecution invoking the Article[s] from Burnham the despot 1980 Constitution,hilarious.. anyway the big bad Indian Savior going down,Constitution will not save him.

 

What do you mean by that? If, after SOCU completes its investigation Bharrat Jagdeo is charged and found guilty of buying P2 land below market price, he will not be jailed. The impending SARA Act does not provide for jailing but simply to recover state assets. In this case, the difference between the market price and Jagdeo's purchase price. If Jagdeo refuses to pay up, SARA will garnish the amount owed from his pension. The same applies to all the P2 residents. None of them will be jailed.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:

Ha..ha..ha BJ shading himself from prosecution invoking the Article[s] from Burnham the despot 1980 Constitution,hilarious.. anyway the big bad Indian Savior going down,Constitution will not save him.

 

What do you mean by that? If, after SOCU completes its investigation Bharrat Jagdeo is charged and found guilty of buying P2 land below market price, he will not be jailed. The impending SARA Act does not provide for jailing but simply to recover state assets. In this case, the difference between the market price and Jagdeo's purchase price. If Jagdeo refuses to pay up, SARA will garnish the amount owed from his pension. The same applies to all the P2 residents. None of them will be jailed.

This investigation will go on until 2020 ... it's a political ploy for the PNC to take to the next election campaign 

FM
Imran posted:
 
This investigation will go on until 2020 ... it's a political ploy for the PNC to take to the next election campaign 
 

Not necessarily the P2 one, but certainly the NICIL prosecutions and others will drag out to 2020. The current P2 probe is a dress rehearsal.

FM

Gilly,

Jagdeo,will be charged the court will decide the difference in payment,

Pradoville 2 is not about wan lill piece of land,the issue is where the money comes from for the development and sold cheaply.

No Jail time,his credibility will be tarnished.

Django
Nehru posted:
Django posted:

Ha..ha..ha BJ shading himself from prosecution invoking the Article[s] from Burnham the despot 1980 Constitution,hilarious.. anyway the big bad Indian Savior going down,Constitution will not save him.

Bhai Imran take note of this post,you could have left out all the words that distinguish my nick,that is fine.

This Chap is as STUPID as one can possibly get!!!  Filth Head would be too dignified a Title for him!!!!!!

Jagdeo and Burnham’ perception stronger than reality

Mar 11, 2017 Source

Dear Editor,
In Guyana, presidential immunity is governed by Article 182 (1) and (2) of the Constitution. Let us deal with the material parts of the respective paragraphs (1) and (2) in turn and rather briefly. 182 (1)… “The holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”
This would suggest that the president is immune from personal liability (criminal or civil) ‘for the performance of the functions (official) of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those (official) functions’ during or after his tenure. Now let’s turn to the other part.
(2) ‘Whilst any person holds or performs the functions of the office of President no criminal proceedings shall be instituted or continued against him or her in respect of anything done or omitted to be done by him or her in his or her private capacity and no civil proceedings shall be instituted or continued in respect of which relief claimed against him or her or anything done or omitted to be done in his or her private capacity’.
The second limb of immunity contemplates private acts of the president engaged in while in office and which may give rise to criminal or civil liability. The president may be answerable when he or she demits office for any such private conduct. At the outset it becomes clear that immunity is not absolute. The president is not elevated upon the shoulders of us lesser mortals and deemed to be unreachable by the law. Any such state of affairs is radically opposed to any civilised concept of democracy.
The real question then becomes, can the president enjoy immunity, especially a president who no longer holds office, for criminal or civil liability when his official actions are glaringly and deliberately inconsistent with his oath of office? The question then becomes, did former president Jagdeo acquire his lot in Pradoville 2 as a private citizen like his counterparts or in his capacity as president of Guyana? The second question might the less challenging one to answer. If as a private citizen then this might be collusion with NICIL to defraud the people of Guyana; and otherwise, it would be a clear act of presidential impropriety.
Let’s deal with the first question. In Baird –v- Public Service Commission (2001) former Chief Justice Chang reminds us that by virtue of Article 9 of the 1980 Constitution, ‘sovereignty belongs to the people and not to the presidential head of state. The immunities which attach personally to the President under article 182 of the Constitution are for the limited purpose of ensuring effective performance of the functions of his high office, and not for the purpose of granting immunity to the State for any official wrongdoing. The State would still be liable for the President’s wrongdoing, even though the President himself would be immune from the curial process. It is the President, who is immune from the curial process, not his acts.’
Nandalal as recently as February 24, 2017 in his contribution in the Daily News titled ‘Immunities of the President and the State’ quoted the learning in Karunathilka v Commissioner of Elections (1999) relative to Article 35 of the Sri Lankan Constitution which, in his estimation, is strikingly similar Article 182 of our Guyana’s Constitution:
“I hold that article 35 only prohibits the institution (or continuation) of legal proceedings against the President while in office; it imposes no bar whatsoever on proceedings (a) against him when he is no longer in office, and (b) other persons at any time; that this is a consequence of the very nature of immunity; immunity is a shield for the doer not for the act. Very different language is used when it is intended to exclude legal proceedings, which seeks to impugn the act. Article 35, therefore, neither transforms the unlawful act into a lawful on, nor renders it one which shall not be questioned in any court. It does not exclude judicial proceedings of the lawfulness or propriety of an impugned act or omission in appropriate proceedings against someone who does not enjoy immunity from suit…”
In conclusion, former president Jagdeo has very skilfully positioned himself as the virtually certain presidential candidate of the PPP comes 2020. The PPP/C government, especially under his tenure, is perceived to have been corrupt materially to a greater degree than the perceived power-drunkenness of the PNC under Burnham. As Professor Bishop used to say to us, ‘perception is often stronger than reality’.
Ronald J. Daniels


 

Read the above if you have one ounce of comprehension,

Blowing your noisy horn doesn't mask the facts.

Django
Django posted:
Nehru posted:
Django posted:

Ha..ha..ha BJ shading himself from prosecution invoking the Article[s] from Burnham the despot 1980 Constitution,hilarious.. anyway the big bad Indian Savior going down,Constitution will not save him.

Bhai Imran take note of this post,you could have left out all the words that distinguish my nick,that is fine.

This Chap is as STUPID as one can possibly get!!!  Filth Head would be too dignified a Title for him!!!!!!

Jagdeo and Burnham’ perception stronger than reality

Mar 11, 2017 Source

Dear Editor,
In Guyana, presidential immunity is governed by Article 182 (1) and (2) of the Constitution. Let us deal with the material parts of the respective paragraphs (1) and (2) in turn and rather briefly. 182 (1)… “The holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”
This would suggest that the president is immune from personal liability (criminal or civil) ‘for the performance of the functions (official) of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those (official) functions’ during or after his tenure. Now let’s turn to the other part.
(2) ‘Whilst any person holds or performs the functions of the office of President no criminal proceedings shall be instituted or continued against him or her in respect of anything done or omitted to be done by him or her in his or her private capacity and no civil proceedings shall be instituted or continued in respect of which relief claimed against him or her or anything done or omitted to be done in his or her private capacity’.
The second limb of immunity contemplates private acts of the president engaged in while in office and which may give rise to criminal or civil liability. The president may be answerable when he or she demits office for any such private conduct. At the outset it becomes clear that immunity is not absolute. The president is not elevated upon the shoulders of us lesser mortals and deemed to be unreachable by the law. Any such state of affairs is radically opposed to any civilised concept of democracy.
The real question then becomes, can the president enjoy immunity, especially a president who no longer holds office, for criminal or civil liability when his official actions are glaringly and deliberately inconsistent with his oath of office? The question then becomes, did former president Jagdeo acquire his lot in Pradoville 2 as a private citizen like his counterparts or in his capacity as president of Guyana? The second question might the less challenging one to answer. If as a private citizen then this might be collusion with NICIL to defraud the people of Guyana; and otherwise, it would be a clear act of presidential impropriety.
Let’s deal with the first question. In Baird –v- Public Service Commission (2001) former Chief Justice Chang reminds us that by virtue of Article 9 of the 1980 Constitution, ‘sovereignty belongs to the people and not to the presidential head of state. The immunities which attach personally to the President under article 182 of the Constitution are for the limited purpose of ensuring effective performance of the functions of his high office, and not for the purpose of granting immunity to the State for any official wrongdoing. The State would still be liable for the President’s wrongdoing, even though the President himself would be immune from the curial process. It is the President, who is immune from the curial process, not his acts.’
Nandalal as recently as February 24, 2017 in his contribution in the Daily News titled ‘Immunities of the President and the State’ quoted the learning in Karunathilka v Commissioner of Elections (1999) relative to Article 35 of the Sri Lankan Constitution which, in his estimation, is strikingly similar Article 182 of our Guyana’s Constitution:
“I hold that article 35 only prohibits the institution (or continuation) of legal proceedings against the President while in office; it imposes no bar whatsoever on proceedings (a) against him when he is no longer in office, and (b) other persons at any time; that this is a consequence of the very nature of immunity; immunity is a shield for the doer not for the act. Very different language is used when it is intended to exclude legal proceedings, which seeks to impugn the act. Article 35, therefore, neither transforms the unlawful act into a lawful on, nor renders it one which shall not be questioned in any court. It does not exclude judicial proceedings of the lawfulness or propriety of an impugned act or omission in appropriate proceedings against someone who does not enjoy immunity from suit…”
In conclusion, former president Jagdeo has very skilfully positioned himself as the virtually certain presidential candidate of the PPP comes 2020. The PPP/C government, especially under his tenure, is perceived to have been corrupt materially to a greater degree than the perceived power-drunkenness of the PNC under Burnham. As Professor Bishop used to say to us, ‘perception is often stronger than reality’.
Ronald J. Daniels


 

Read the above if you have one ounce of comprehension,

Blowing your noisy horn doesn't mask the facts.

Oh bai, me can't comprehend and undastand ...

Bro D. Can you break am up please.

FM
Drugb posted:

Slop can earn his keep today with all these posts and topics. I believe this is to supplement his SSI check. 

"GANDU" take a hike,

Don't worry about my income,guh play with your kind.

Django

Nandlall: Constitution clear, Jagdeo not answerable to any court on Pradoville 2.

March 11, 2017 Source

Former Attorney General Anil Nandlall today said that considering the immunity granted under the constitution, former President Bharrat Jagdeo is not answerable to any court on the matter of the Pradoville 2 housing estate.

A statement by Nandlall follows:

The immunities which are conferred upon the President of Guyana by Article 182 of the Constitution are expressed in reasonably clear language. They can be paraphrased thus: a President shall not be personally answerable to any court for any act done in the performance in the functions of his office; no criminal, nor civil proceedings can be instituted against him, in his personal capacity in respect of any acts done in the performance of his office, either during the term of office or thereafter; while he holds office or performs the functions of Office of the President, no criminal nor civil proceedings shall be instituted or continued against him in respect of anything done or omitted to be done by him in his private capacity.

Mr. Bharrat Jagdeo, held the Office of President and performed the functions of that office during the period 11 August 1999 – 3 December 2011. It is equally clear that Pradoville 2 was developed and lots allocated thereof to the several allotees during the period that Mr. Jagdeo was President.

Applying the clear and literal language of Article 182 of the Constitution, whatever may have been his role, Mr. Bharrat Jagdeo, is not personally answerable to any Court for it, nor can criminal or civil proceedings be instituted against him for it. If a person is not answerable to a Court for; any acts committed during a given period and/or, no criminal nor civil proceedings can be personally instituted against him in relation thereto, it logically follows that he cannot be arrested or detained for any of those acts. Consequently, there is no doubt that, Mr. Bharrat Jagdeo’s, arrest and detention were unlawful.

Whether a constitutional entitlement enures to a person or not and to what extent it does so, can never fall to be determined by a Policeman. It is unfortunate that such a view emanates from a lawyer. These are the types of uninitiated utterances which send wrong and dangerous signals. They can result in high constitutional protections, rights and freedoms to be whittled down by the opinion and interpretation of a legally untrained Policeman. I am sure that, Mr. Harmon, would not allow the constitutional legal immunities which he enjoys for things said and done in the Parliament, to be determined by a Police Constable. Imagine what will happen if, Mr. Harmon, is arrested in the Parliament compound for something he said in an address to the National Assembly.

There is absolutely nothing contained within the letter or spirit of Article 182 of the Constitution which lends to the interpretation, that a Former President can or will lose the immunities which he enjoyed as President if he returns to active politics. Such a proposition is so deeply flawed that it only needs to be stated to be rejected. Being in active politics, holding political views and engaging in political agitations are all guaranteed to every citizen as a fundamental right and freedom by the very Constitution. It lacks rationality that a person will or can lose a protection which the Constitution affords by the exercise of a right which the very Constitution confers. Is it not absurd to contend that, Mr. Jagdeo’s presidential immunities would have remained intact if he had pursued a career in cricket after he demitted office but that he stands to lose it, if he returns to active politics?

More significantly by advancing the latter argument, Mr. Harmon have unwittingly corroborated the opposition’s contentions that the recent arrests and detention were politically driven, were an expression of political witch-hunting and were intended to intimidate the political opposition. We now have, from the mouth of one of the highest ranking official of this Government, who happens to be an Attorney-at-Law, confirming that if a Former President continues to participate in active politics, the Government will deny him his constitutional immunities.

The matter is further compounded by President Granger on the very day expressing a wholly different view on the very issue. To those who cannot see the clear writing on the wall, you are indeed blind.

Django
Django posted:

Gilly,

Jagdeo,will be charged the court will decide the difference in payment,

Pradoville 2 is not about wan lill piece of land,the issue is where the money comes from for the development and sold cheaply.

No Jail time,his credibility will be tarnished.

BUNKUM.

FYI, in the eyes of PPP members and supporters Jagdeo's credibility will never be tarnished. Never in the party's history was any General Secretary's credibility questioned, let alone tarnished. On the contrary, PPPites will hail Jagdeo as a hero for refusing to cooperate with this P2 probe.

FM
Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:

Gilly,

Jagdeo,will be charged the court will decide the difference in payment,

Pradoville 2 is not about wan lill piece of land,the issue is where the money comes from for the development and sold cheaply.

No Jail time,his credibility will be tarnished.

BUNKUM.

FYI, in the eyes of PPP members and supporters Jagdeo's credibility will never be tarnished. Never in the party's history was any General Secretary's credibility questioned, let alone tarnished. On the contrary, PPPites will hail Jagdeo as a hero for refusing to cooperate with this P2 probe.

Gilly, you or somebody else; help me out, nah man ! I hear so much talk talk flyin' around about Jagdeo being charged but nobody sayin' what he gettin' charge for. What will/should the charge be ?

K
Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:

Gilly,

Jagdeo,will be charged the court will decide the difference in payment,

Pradoville 2 is not about wan lill piece of land,the issue is where the money comes from for the development and sold cheaply.

No Jail time,his credibility will be tarnished.

BUNKUM.

FYI, in the eyes of PPP members and supporters Jagdeo's credibility will never be tarnished. Never in the party's history was any General Secretary's credibility questioned, let alone tarnished. On the contrary, PPPites will hail Jagdeo as a hero for refusing to cooperate with this P2 probe.

BUNKUM.


 

Wondering what 61% of the population thinks.

Django
Keffer posted:
 

Gilly, you or somebody else; help me out, nah man ! I hear so much talk talk flyin' around about Jagdeo being charged but nobody sayin' what he gettin' charge for. What will/should the charge be ?

Take a peek at the attachment,you may get the answer.

Attachments

Django
Django posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:

Gilly,

Jagdeo,will be charged the court will decide the difference in payment,

Pradoville 2 is not about wan lill piece of land,the issue is where the money comes from for the development and sold cheaply.

No Jail time,his credibility will be tarnished.

BUNKUM.

FYI, in the eyes of PPP members and supporters Jagdeo's credibility will never be tarnished. Never in the party's history was any General Secretary's credibility questioned, let alone tarnished. On the contrary, PPPites will hail Jagdeo as a hero for refusing to cooperate with this P2 probe.

BUNKUM.


 

Wondering what 61% of the population thinks.

Go back and ask them!!!

FM
Django posted:
Keffer posted:
 

Gilly, you or somebody else; help me out, nah man ! I hear so much talk talk flyin' around about Jagdeo being charged but nobody sayin' what he gettin' charge for. What will/should the charge be ?

Take a peek at the attachment,you may get the answer.

Please tell me which statute Jagdeo contravened. 

K
Django posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:

Gilly,

Jagdeo,will be charged the court will decide the difference in payment,

Pradoville 2 is not about wan lill piece of land,the issue is where the money comes from for the development and sold cheaply.

No Jail time,his credibility will be tarnished.

BUNKUM.

FYI, in the eyes of PPP members and supporters Jagdeo's credibility will never be tarnished. Never in the party's history was any General Secretary's credibility questioned, let alone tarnished. On the contrary, PPPites will hail Jagdeo as a hero for refusing to cooperate with this P2 probe.

BUNKUM.


 

Wondering what 61% of the population thinks.

Django, which one of your marbles yuh lost? How yuh get dat 61%? The PPP got a solid 49.19% of total votes cast in the 2015 elections. So, 100% minus 49.19% = 61%?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:


 

Wondering what 61% of the population thinks.

Django, which one of your marbles yuh lost? How yuh get dat 61%? The PPP got a solid 49.19% of total votes cast in the 2015 elections. So, 100% minus 49.19% = 61%?

Suh wha happen to people who did not vote,they don't count.

any way i was too focused on the Indian supporters and arrived at 61%

Django

Burnham set up the law, now Jagdeo benefits, he has political immunity. They cannot charge Jagdeo, and even Granger says his arrest was WRONG. All Presidents pass and future will benefit, even Hamilton Green.

K
kp posted:

Burnham set up the law, now Jagdeo benefits, he has political immunity. They cannot charge Jagdeo, and even Granger says his arrest was WRONG. All Presidents pass and future will benefit, even Hamilton Green.

Was Hamilton Green ever president of Guyana ? 

K

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