Jagdeo maintains that PPP has viable plan for sugar.

   Source

At a meeting held at Leonora, West Coast Demerara, in solidarity with sugar workers who have lost their jobs as a result of the closure of estates, Opposition Leader, Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday said his party had a viable plan for the industry.

Jagdeo led his supporters of mainly sugar workers in a march around the village and concluded at Alice Street where they gathered for the meeting.

The street is named after sugar worker, Kowsilla, called Alice who was crushed to death with a tractor in 1964 during a prolonged strike at the Leonora estate. Fourteen other females were seriously injured.

Jagdeo, who is also General Secretary of the People’s Progressive Party (PPP), told the gathering that the PPP has a carefully laid out plan to get sugar back to viability and is willing to present it to the government.

Opposition Leader, Bharrat Jagdeo speaking at the meeting

He said though that he knows they would not listen to him because their decision to close the estates is political. Critics have argued that the sugar industry fell into rapid decline while Jagdeo was President and he was unable to reverse it. His government has also been accused of responsibility for the disastrous investment in the Skeldon Sugar Modernisation Project which has saddled the industry with an enormous debt and significantly raised its cost of production.

According to Jagdeo, government could not put $10B a year transitionally for sugar until it gets back on its feet, but could have given a large  tax write-off to  Demerara Distillers Limited and by extension, Banks DIH.

Jagdeo lamented that sugar has kept this country going from 1976 to 1996 and that the sugar levy was more than 20 percent of total government income.

From 1997, he said, while in government, the PPP stopped taking the sugar levy from the industry.

He said sugar had not been a burden until recently due to changes in the European Union when the prices were slashed by 36 percent and $8B a year was lost in revenue. He also admitted that there were management issues affecting the industry.

He said all of the sugar estates could have been kept open with workers getting their full Annual Production Incentive and four to five percent salary increases per year and also save 10,000 jobs.

Jagdeo pointed out that when the government said sugar was a burden on Guyana, he told them to forget the Commission of Inquiry that they spent $20M on and to do a feasibility study instead.

Further, he said, the sugar workers pay more than $10B in taxes so it would have made sense to keep the 10,000 jobs. By removing them, he emphasized, “Government would lose all of those benefits. But they are not thinking that way because the decision is political.”

He said that even when the government said they consulted with the PPP, Minister of State, Joseph Harmon had already written a letter to Florida-based businessman, Wesley Kirton to find interested parties to buy the entire industry or part of it.

Jagdeo was also critical of the government for taking away the $1.67B grant from schoolchildren. He noted that the tax write-off to the beverages companies could have kept the children’s grant going for 40 years into the future.

He also mentioned that the water subsidy that the government took away from 44,000 pensioners is less than the 100 percent salary increase for the ministers gave themselves after taking office.

He lamented that it is not like the country does not have money but that it is giving priorities in other areas.

The Opposition Leader also lambasted Minister of Public Security, Khemraj Ramjattan for having the worst record, with the burning to death of 17 prisoners last year and the destruction  of the entire Camp Street prison a few weeks ago.

According to him, the PPP kept the prison safe for 23 years and that even though five prisoners had escaped in 2005, they lasted long without being recaptured because the prisoners were seen as freedom fighters and the army and police were unable to go into Buxton on the East Coast of Demerara.

He said since the jailbreak, his party said it was taking the side of law and order and supported the security forces in recapturing the prisoners because they want people to stay safe in their homes.

Meanwhile, he told the supporters to be vigilant and ensure that their names are on the voters’ list so that they can take the country back at the next general elections in 2020.

He said government officials are claiming that the Americans are on their side and have guaranteed them 10 years in office but he knows that is “not true because I have spoken to the people.”

He told the gathering too that closing of the sugar estates was a ploy to get them to migrate but assured them that “we are getting them out of office…”

With regards to the last elections, he said that even though it was not fair, government only defeated them by 4,500 votes.

Declaring that “we are going to take this [country] back,” he said, “one year later at Local Government [Elections], we swept the polls with 28,000 votes… But they didn’t say anything about that… If we go to the polls now there would be a 50,000 difference.”

Also making remarks at the meeting and speaking about the suffering of the sugar workers, were General Secretary of the Guyana Agricultural & General Workers’ Union [GAWU], Seepaul Narine and former Wales estate worker and GAWU representative, Gordon Thomas.

Original Post

So if Jagdeo had big plans for sugar why did they keep a secret when they were in power?  

Jagdeo needs to be honest.  They had no idea what to do even as they were warned by everyone that the end of guaranteed access to the EU meant that radical changes needed to be made.

What did Jagdeo do? Squander funds on Skeldon, which resulted in the already high costs becoming even higher.

So unless Jagdeo comes up with a plan to fully deal with the mess that they made they really have nothing to say.  Squealing about the EU is years too late. They provided ample warning and Jagdeo screamed at them, and of course they ignored him. Why should they be obligated to continue a neo colonial experiment decades after Guyana received its independence?

Jaggy blowing smoke to his supporters. We all know sugar is dead without massive investment to mechanize the industry, but this will have an adverse effect on the amount of workers needed. It is not a venture that should be borne by the govt. Jackass Granger is correct on this one. 

Drugb posted:

Jaggy blowing smoke to his supporters.

And yet you call him GOD.

In fact his supporters should tell him to haul his ass and go sit down with Granger and stop pretending as if he is different.  They ought to remind him that they know that he taught Harmon how to be a big thief and even gave him permission to demand bribes from the his oligarch friends. His friends of course gladly bought out Harmon and others as they know that this guarantees that they will continue to get what he wants.

But instead they go to his rallies, scream, kiss his feet and call him God.  No wonder their fate will be dire regardless as to whether the PPP or APNU wins the next elections.

No cribby I called him obsolete.  His supporters are not stupid, they know he is playing politricks. He is in fact praying for Granger to shut down the sugar industry so that the PPP can remain blameless in the annals of history for ending sugar. 

Drugb posted:

No cribby I called him obsolete.  His supporters are not stupid, they know he is playing politricks. He is in fact praying for Granger to shut down the sugar industry so that the PPP can remain blameless in the annals of history for ending sugar. 

And in another thread you wail that tiny Barbados can absorb double the number of professionals that Guyana can, with just 40% of the population that we have.

You know why. The foolishness that you wrote about. How will PPP supporters benefit from the Jagdeo idiocy. They should instead be demanding that he negotiate with the government for a more lasting solution.

1. Reduce the size of the industry to support local consumption of sugar and molasses as well as that needed for CARICOM.

2, Demand that those sugar workers who wish to be farmers be awarded lots on a lease basis with an option to own (lease payments being counted towards eventual purchase if they show that they are serious farmers). The government should also provide the training (yes with those agri experts that we don't have), credit and marketing support (yes those marketing professionals that we don't have).  This will increase the probability of these farmers succeeding.

3. Demand that the government assist the private sector in finding markets for the export of raw and processed food products in the CARICOM markets (inclusive of in the lucrative hotel and cruise sectors).

 

But Jagdeo is too racist and too contemptuous of poor Indians to think of this. But is what GAWU and others should be forcing Jagdeo to do!  If Jagdeo makes these demands what is Granger going to say? NO!  Then we will be just as bad as Jagdeo was when he abandoned the bauxite workers to starvation!

caribny posted:

And in another thread you wail that tiny Barbados can absorb double the number of professionals that Guyana can, with just 40% of the population that we have.

You know why. The foolishness that you wrote about. How will PPP supporters benefit from the Jagdeo idiocy. They should instead be demanding that he negotiate with the government for a more lasting solution.

1. Reduce the size of the industry to support local consumption of sugar and molasses as well as that needed for CARICOM.

2, Demand that those sugar workers who wish to be farmers be awarded lots on a lease basis with an option to own (lease payments being counted towards eventual purchase if they show that they are serious farmers). The government should also provide the training (yes with those agri experts that we don't have), credit and marketing support (yes those marketing professionals that we don't have).  This will increase the probability of these farmers succeeding.

3. Demand that the government assist the private sector in finding markets for the export of raw and processed food products in the CARICOM markets (inclusive of in the lucrative hotel and cruise sectors).

 

But Jagdeo is too racist and too contemptuous of poor Indians to think of this. But is what GAWU and others should be forcing Jagdeo to do!  If Jagdeo makes these demands what is Granger going to say? NO!  Then we will be just as bad as Jagdeo was when he abandoned the bauxite workers to starvation!

All your ramblings above is nonsensical and lacks credibility as it is not a tested approach nor can you say for certain it would be profitable. Jackass Granger has the correct idea, end government involvement in sugar and let private enterprise carry it forward if they wish. This the ultimate measure of whether sugar can be profitable in Guyana or not, a privatizing the industry. 

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

And in another thread you wail that tiny Barbados can absorb double the number of professionals that Guyana can, with just 40% of the population that we have.

You know why. The foolishness that you wrote about. How will PPP supporters benefit from the Jagdeo idiocy. They should instead be demanding that he negotiate with the government for a more lasting solution.

1. Reduce the size of the industry to support local consumption of sugar and molasses as well as that needed for CARICOM.

2, Demand that those sugar workers who wish to be farmers be awarded lots on a lease basis with an option to own (lease payments being counted towards eventual purchase if they show that they are serious farmers). The government should also provide the training (yes with those agri experts that we don't have), credit and marketing support (yes those marketing professionals that we don't have).  This will increase the probability of these farmers succeeding.

3. Demand that the government assist the private sector in finding markets for the export of raw and processed food products in the CARICOM markets (inclusive of in the lucrative hotel and cruise sectors).

 

But Jagdeo is too racist and too contemptuous of poor Indians to think of this. But is what GAWU and others should be forcing Jagdeo to do!  If Jagdeo makes these demands what is Granger going to say? NO!  Then we will be just as bad as Jagdeo was when he abandoned the bauxite workers to starvation!

All your ramblings above is nonsensical and lacks credibility as it is not a tested approach nor can you say for certain it would be profitable. Jackass Granger has the correct idea, end government involvement in sugar and let private enterprise carry it forward if they wish. This the ultimate measure of whether sugar can be profitable in Guyana or not, a privatizing the industry. 

On this point, I have to agree with Cribby more than with you.  Cribby raised some good points however, his racism gets in the way and, just like with the PNC, the right thing goes wrong!

No time to go detailed, got to go kech a plane!

Drugb posted:
 

 Jackass Granger has the correct idea, end government involvement in sugar and let private enterprise carry it forward if they wish. 

You do know that you agree with Granger and Jagdeo will scream at you.

Are any private investors interested though? Now, aside from DDL(who want to secure a domestic supply of molasses) who else would be interested in a failing industry?  When the acquire it and lay off the vast majority of workers and shut down all of the failing estates now what would Jagdeo and company do?  Who will want that mess!

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
 

 Jackass Granger has the correct idea, end government involvement in sugar and let private enterprise carry it forward if they wish. 

You do know that you agree with Granger and Jagdeo will scream at you.

Are any private investors interested though? Now, aside from DDL(who want to secure a domestic supply of molasses) who else would be interested in a failing industry?  When the acquire it and lay off the vast majority of workers and shut down all of the failing estates now what would Jagdeo and company do?  Who will want that mess!

This is the way it has to be. If sugar is to survive it must stand on its own feet, not run by govt. In addition the jobs provided by sugar are vastly dankey cart economy jobs. 

Drugb posted:
!

This is the way it has to be. If sugar is to survive it must stand on its own feet, not run by govt. In addition the jobs provided by sugar are vastly dankey cart economy jobs. 

I find it interesting that you now sing this tune when a few months ago you were screaming that Jackass Granger was going to kill off Indians.

You do know that Rose Hall and Skeldon will be like Linden and Kwakwani with massive unemployment. Now my idea would be more humane and at least give these ex sugar workers an opportunity to do something else if they so wish.

And with Guyana and CARICOM at large having a huge food import bill I really don't see where the risk is.  Especially as increasing morbidity due to obesity is getting more governments to urge their populations to eat better.

I don't know if you know this but food and agri industrial products are among the USA's largest exports. Ditto for Canada.

ba$eman posted:
Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

And in another thread you wail that tiny Barbados can absorb double the number of professionals that Guyana can, with just 40% of the population that we have.

You know why. The foolishness that you wrote about. How will PPP supporters benefit from the Jagdeo idiocy. They should instead be demanding that he negotiate with the government for a more lasting solution.

1. Reduce the size of the industry to support local consumption of sugar and molasses as well as that needed for CARICOM.

2, Demand that those sugar workers who wish to be farmers be awarded lots on a lease basis with an option to own (lease payments being counted towards eventual purchase if they show that they are serious farmers). The government should also provide the training (yes with those agri experts that we don't have), credit and marketing support (yes those marketing professionals that we don't have).  This will increase the probability of these farmers succeeding.

3. Demand that the government assist the private sector in finding markets for the export of raw and processed food products in the CARICOM markets (inclusive of in the lucrative hotel and cruise sectors).

 

But Jagdeo is too racist and too contemptuous of poor Indians to think of this. But is what GAWU and others should be forcing Jagdeo to do!  If Jagdeo makes these demands what is Granger going to say? NO!  Then we will be just as bad as Jagdeo was when he abandoned the bauxite workers to starvation!

All your ramblings above is nonsensical and lacks credibility as it is not a tested approach nor can you say for certain it would be profitable. Jackass Granger has the correct idea, end government involvement in sugar and let private enterprise carry it forward if they wish. This the ultimate measure of whether sugar can be profitable in Guyana or not, a privatizing the industry. 

On this point, I have to agree with Cribby more than with you.  Cribby raised some good points however, his racism gets in the way and, just like with the PNC, the right thing goes wrong!

No time to go detailed, got to go kech a plane!

You just cant avoid a beat with your racist shit eh.

Make sure the  plane don't take you to Bangalore, or the people you screwed,  gun kick your ass to kingdom come.

caribny posted:

I find it interesting that you now sing this tune when a few months ago you were screaming that Jackass Granger was going to kill off Indians.

You do know that Rose Hall and Skeldon will be like Linden and Kwakwani with massive unemployment. Now my idea would be more humane and at least give these ex sugar workers an opportunity to do something else if they so wish.

And with Guyana and CARICOM at large having a huge food import bill I really don't see where the risk is.  Especially as increasing morbidity due to obesity is getting more governments to urge their populations to eat better.

I don't know if you know this but food and agri industrial products are among the USA's largest exports. Ditto for Canada.

Like you want to perpetuate dankey cart economy, which is what cane cutting job is.  This is a blessing in disguise, it will force the IndoGs to move away from the dependency of low wage can cutting jobs and pursue more higher paying initiatives. IndoG always find a way to survive.

I am not against agriculture but rather govt running any type of business.

If food import bill is high then this is an opportunity for private investors to step in and take over the agriculture industry instead of depending on a bunch of politicians to further waste tax payers dollars. 

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

I find it interesting that you now sing this tune when a few months ago you were screaming that Jackass Granger was going to kill off Indians.

You do know that Rose Hall and Skeldon will be like Linden and Kwakwani with massive unemployment. Now my idea would be more humane and at least give these ex sugar workers an opportunity to do something else if they so wish.

And with Guyana and CARICOM at large having a huge food import bill I really don't see where the risk is.  Especially as increasing morbidity due to obesity is getting more governments to urge their populations to eat better.

I don't know if you know this but food and agri industrial products are among the USA's largest exports. Ditto for Canada.

Like you want to perpetuate dankey cart economy, which is what cane cutting job is.  This is a blessing in disguise, it will force the IndoGs to move away from the dependency of low wage can cutting jobs and pursue more higher paying initiatives. IndoG always find a way to survive.

I am not against agriculture but rather govt running any type of business.

If food import bill is high then this is an opportunity for private investors to step in and take over the agriculture industry instead of depending on a bunch of politicians to further waste tax payers dollars. 

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

caribny posted:

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

More racist shit from a congenital racist shit head.

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

.

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. .

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

Its a pity that you are just plainly stupid. If you had a brain you would realize that a lease to own plan is to ensure that people do farm and that the land isn't used to speculatively sell.  If you don't own the land, but you are leasing it then it is not yours to sell. 

If you are a lessee and you aren't farming then your lease will be canceled and some one who will farm will replace you.  Some one who is just getting into this to sell isn't going to be involved in something that would bar them from full ownership for at least 20 years.

You are also a blatant jackass. Who is the private sector? Not private INDEPENDENT farmers?

Ironically the "private sector" which you will define as the oligarchs will most likely take the sugar lands and turn it into more gated communities to launder their ill gotten gains.  Wealthy Guyanese are speculators, not producers. Just look at all of those big and empty buildings that began to go up under the PPP in G/T.

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

I don't think privatizing is the answer either. The most immediate concern is the workers without jobs. They should be allotted land free of charge to farm diversified crops. if they don't make use, take it back. The land needs to remain government owned.

GTAngler posted:
.
 

I don't think privatizing is the answer either. The most immediate concern is the workers without jobs. They should be allotted land free of charge to farm diversified crops. if they don't make use, take it back. The land needs to remain government owned.

Which is my point. Maybe 10 years ago privatizing Guysuco might have been an option, but that company is too indebted and too inefficient and its plant is too neglected. I don't even think some one would buy it for a dollar because they then inherit all of these problems.

The only long term way to help the sugar workers is to assist them to be independent producers because Guyana CANNOT afford to sustain Guysuco indefinitely.

Nothing that is free is appreciated. If they lease it then the land has value. The lease would allow the land to be taken back if not used for agricultural purposes.  The lease can be nominal with each payment treated as a zero interest mortgage allowing the land to be fully owned by the farmer after a period of time.

GTAngler posted:
Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

I don't think privatizing is the answer either. The most immediate concern is the workers without jobs. They should be allotted land free of charge to farm diversified crops. if they don't make use, take it back. The land needs to remain government owned.

Are you daft man?  What is the point of free land without the requisite machinery, irrigation and markets in place? Where will your kumbya approach to capitalism stop? Govt to provide all these assistance too? Govt should not be in the business of finding running business, this is not their forte.  

caribny posted:

Its a pity that you are just plainly stupid. If you had a brain you would realize that a lease to own plan is to ensure that people do farm and that the land isn't used to speculatively sell.  If you don't own the land, but you are leasing it then it is not yours to sell. 

If you are a lessee and you aren't farming then your lease will be canceled and some one who will farm will replace you.  Some one who is just getting into this to sell isn't going to be involved in something that would bar them from full ownership for at least 20 years.

You are also a blatant jackass. Who is the private sector? Not private INDEPENDENT farmers?

Ironically the "private sector" which you will define as the oligarchs will most likely take the sugar lands and turn it into more gated communities to launder their ill gotten gains.  Wealthy Guyanese are speculators, not producers. Just look at all of those big and empty buildings that began to go up under the PPP in G/T.

The govt is making money right now from rice farmers by renting land. If land is given away at a discount, this will only serve to artificially prop up the industry and increase inefficiency.  The industry of agriculture needs to stand on its own, only then will people run it efficiently. 

Drugb posted:
GTAngler posted:
Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

I don't think privatizing is the answer either. The most immediate concern is the workers without jobs. They should be allotted land free of charge to farm diversified crops. if they don't make use, take it back. The land needs to remain government owned.

Are you daft man?  What is the point of free land without the requisite machinery, irrigation and markets in place? Where will your kumbya approach to capitalism stop? Govt to provide all these assistance too? Govt should not be in the business of finding running business, this is not their forte.  

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

Drugb posted:
.
 

The govt is making money right now from rice farmers by renting land. If land is given away at a discount, this will only serve to artificially prop up the industry and increase inefficiency.  The industry of agriculture needs to stand on its own, only then will people run it efficiently. 

So there is a precedent for leasing land. So why your screams that it is a giveaway.  The same way rice farmers benefit ex sugar workers can also.

GTAngler posted:
 

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

Druggie is confused. Not that long ago he was blaming Granger for the plight of the sugar workers. Now he wants them to slave for some oligarch, who will treat them even worse than the Granger controlled Guysuco currently does.

Surely druggie doesn't think that the "private sector" (by this he means the ultra wealthy) are going to grow crops in the hot sun.  

GTAngler posted:

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

How did race come into the discussion? 

If you are concerned about feeding the people immediately then why go with a long term untested solution of leasing land to folks who may not know a thing about farming? You don't expect us to believe that every can cutter is knowledgeable or accomplished farmer.  Besides the type of farming you are suggesting is a long term venture that requires development of the land to fit the type of crop to be grown. You folks don't thing before you speak, you just jump on whatever caribj says without asking questions. You need to be more analytical before putting fingers to keyboard and get embarrassed. 

I suggest that a severance payment would be more beneficial rather than leasing land for immediate hunger needs. 

Drugb posted:
GTAngler posted:

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

How did race come into the discussion? 

If you are concerned about feeding the people immediately then why go with a long term untested solution of leasing land to folks who may not know a thing about farming? You don't expect us to believe that every can cutter is knowledgeable or accomplished farmer.  Besides the type of farming you are suggesting is a long term venture that requires development of the land to fit the type of crop to be grown. You folks don't thing before you speak, you just jump on whatever caribj says without asking questions. You need to be more analytical before putting fingers to keyboard and get embarrassed. 

I suggest that a severance payment would be more beneficial rather than leasing land for immediate hunger needs. 

You brought race into the discussion with your "Kumbaya" Capitalism or are did you forget?  Also I never said leasing. Please reread my post. I said free of charge. At least in the beginning. I am willing to bet that 99% of the canecutters are capable/knowledgeable of subsistence farming. That's all I am proposing as a "band aid" not a permanent solution. Now that you've brought it up, the kind of training/expertise etc. for a long term takes time and is something that should have been started a long time ago and gradually phased in. I agree that some severance in the form of capital to purchase fertilizer, pesticides, equipment etc. should be made available. Chances are, most of these cane cutters already have their little kitchen gardens. By the way, whatever I write here is what I believe and not based on anyone else.

GTAngler posted:zzHow did race come into the discussion? 

You brought race into the discussion with your "Kumbaya" Capitalism or are did you forget?  Also I never said leasing. Please reread my post. I said free of charge. At least in the beginning. I am willing to bet that 99% of the canecutters are capable/knowledgeable of subsistence farming. That's all I am proposing as a "band aid" not a permanent solution. Now that you've brought it up, the kind of training/expertise etc. for a long term takes time and is something that should have been started a long time ago and gradually phased in. I agree that some severance in the form of capital to purchase fertilizer, pesticides, equipment etc. should be made available. Chances are, most of these cane cutters already have their little kitchen gardens. By the way, whatever I write here is what I believe and not based on anyone else.

Kumbaya has nothing to do with race, it has a universal expression meaning these days, meaning that you have your head in the clouds. 

See below for my interpretation:

The Kumbaya Law: In any conversation where some of the participants hold an opinion to the left of other participants, someone with the more conservativeposition will compare said person's opinion to the naivete of "singing around a campfire singing Kumbaya"

 

It is good that people like you are not in power, you didn't analyze the problem but already you rush to a solution with certain assumptions:

1: cane cutters has the skillset and fortitude to be subsistence farmers

2: subsistence farming will provide a living for cane cutters that is acceptable to them and substitute for cane cutting

3: there is a market for the produce of the substance farming. 

 

You and caribJ are just blowing smoke, jumping up like a chicken without a head claiming to have a solution without the requisite research.

caribny posted:
GTAngler posted:
 

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

Druggie is confused. Not that long ago he was blaming Granger for the plight of the sugar workers. Now he wants them to slave for some oligarch, who will treat them even worse than the Granger controlled Guysuco currently does.

Surely druggie doesn't think that the "private sector" (by this he means the ultra wealthy) are going to grow crops in the hot sun.  

Druggie is a jackass. Let him bray. 

Giving free land to cane cutters is no good, they will flip the land for a profit, all cane cutters dream is a way out of cutting cane and hard labor . What surprises me every body has the solutions for the Sugar Industry but they never work a day in the business, sugar in Guyana is like building ships with sails, the industry has evolved ,but Guyana is still operating as in the colonial days. First, the government must offer the land at a cheap no transferable lease to all existing sugar workers. Also with the help from the school of agriculture and Government, initial assistance and direction to be given to these workers, cant expect a cane cutter to know about crop management and marketing. If the land is not cultivated within a certain period of time, then it is taken away. Not until all the workers first given a chance of the land, then after the bid is open to the general public. Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..

Django posted:
kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..

They already have pest control for rice and sugar, so cash crop should not be too difficult.

We started a co-op with some youth who did not want to return to school. Every Friday a Georgetown truck arrive and rip de kids off with low prices for the stuff they grow.

We implemented a co-op system where they learned what it cost them to grow each item, with time and cost.

This allowed them to set better prices for their produce, but the GT buyers did not like what we did.  The youth told them to screw off and they found  local buyers at  better prices.

Today me bought some Grace juice [from Jamaica] and noticed  a long list of other Grace products, including items from Philippines and Thailand. I was impressed with the presentation of the packaging.

Me also notice Suresh Narine is involved with some AmerIndians in Paramakatoi, near Kaiteur Falls, in canning local items. Guyana needs to do more of this and link with an export market.    

Tola posted:
Django posted:
kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..


Me also notice Suresh Narine is involved with some AmerIndians in Paramakatoi, near Kaiteur Falls, in canning local items. Guyana needs to do more of this and link with an export market.    

Is he from Robb St,the owner of Narines Liquor Store ??

Django posted:
Tola posted:
Django posted:
kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..


Me also notice Suresh Narine is involved with some AmerIndians in Paramakatoi, near Kaiteur Falls, in canning local items. Guyana needs to do more of this and link with an export market.    

Is he from Robb St,the owner of Narines Liquor Store ??

I am  not sure where in GY Suresh is from.  Me first met him in Vancouver  a decade ago with Prak Gossai, who presided at a three day yagna  service.   I was asked to video record it, by Joyce and Narine from Canal Polder, now living in Vancouver. Mara was also there and healthy at that time.  in 2006 his daughter got married at that Mandir.

I met Suresh  again in GY, when he was working with the Iast program from a Canadian university.  I visited Paramakatoi, but was busy with our project to become too involved with his.

Drugb posted:
.

If you are concerned about feeding the people immediately then why go with a long term untested solution of leasing land to folks who may not know a thing about farming? .

They will definitely get severance payments as part of their union contract.  The question is what do they do after that. Its not as if those payments will take care of their needs beyond a certain short period.

Druggie I know that you want the oligarchs to turn those lands into gated communities having acquired the lands at bottom prices.  This is what Jagdeo/Ramotar did on the East Bank Demerara.

Drugb posted:
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You and caribJ are just blowing smoke, jumping up like a chicken without a head claiming to have a solution without the requisite research.

 

It is in fact tested as you yourself stated that the government already leases some lands to rice and other farmers. Rather than having these people be tenant farmers in perpetuity they can eventually become owners under a lease to own arrangement.  This will facilitate their ability to get loans as they will have some sort of collateral, depending on how the bank assesses their control over the lands.

You are just advocating that the top 1% of Guyana continue to amass wealth through speculative activities.  You know full well that they don't have the slightest interest in agriculture. What they will do is built elaborate developments where prices will be quoted in US dollars, and maybe a Cineplex and a shopping mall will be added.

Most cane cutters have occupations other than cutting cane.  Many in fact are already involved in some form of agriculture.  The reason why I don't advocate giving the land to them free, but in making them pay a lease is that means that those who aren't interested in farming will not be involved in this.  In order to keep access to the land they will have to pay for it which means that they will have to generate income from it.

 The cane cutters will in fact get severance as this is part of their contract and in fact even those Guyanese who used to cut cane in St Kitts on a seasonal basis received severance.  Many will take this money and move on to other ventures. Some might want to become more involved in farming, in which case lease to own allows them access to lands. 

As you know drainage and irrigation is always a consideration in Guyana so its best if these lands are awarded on a structured basis so these services can be provided.  The local authorities will have to be put in charge of this, with a fee obviously being paid by the farmers.

caribny posted:

They will definitely get severance payments as part of their union contract.  The question is what do they do after that. Its not as if those payments will take care of their needs beyond a certain short period.

Druggie I know that you want the oligarchs to turn those lands into gated communities having acquired the lands at bottom prices.  This is what Jagdeo/Ramotar did on the East Bank Demerara.

I just don't want govt to embark on another pipe dream, giving out land like Burnham only to be burnt. Gated communities may not be a bad idea if it is more profitable than farming. Remember these folks don't have the necessary equipment/knowledge to be efficient farmers. It is like throwing a hail Mary in football, hoping that cane cutters suddenly become efficient farmers. Not because they are Indians mean that they will be successful. This is reverse discrimination. 

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