Information For Mars and other GNIers who love to label Muslims


 
 
 
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Original Post

Bai, you just came back and mekkin’ trouble already.  In Guyana more Blacks kill Blacks and Indians kill Indians.  But when a Black kill a coolie or Coolie kill Black, all hell breaks loose. 

Is just the way it is, ask Bruce Springsteen if you don’t believe me!

Chief,

What are you trying to instigate here?...this is not a credible source and you are comparing what may be accidental crimes and accidents killed...

The crimes attributed to jihadists by nature are different types of crimes, which basically involves a deliberate act to kill civilians with the jihadists willing to take his own life in the process in the name of a religion and a supposedly better life in heaven.

This information is totally useless for human consumption and makes no sense...thus the appropriate reaction from from Mars.

 

Islamic jihadist immigrants + All islamic jihadist terrorists killed 2+9=11 Americans, according to the table above.

IMHO, the comparison with US deaths by other causes is an attempt to defend the indefensible. There should not have been a single killing by jihadists in the first place. Totally unislamic, patently haram.

"Problem with professional terrorism analyzing is that it ends up treating terrorist acts as though they’re the only violence happening or worth mentioning. The industrial-scale violence of the government ends up implicitly depicted as normal or even commendable business-as-usual."

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

I guess it's a waste of taxpayers' dollars to spend so much on security against Islamic terrorism in the U.S.

Based on statistics, money is better spent on gun control than anti-terrorism.

60-70% of terrorists are white male, but I dont see anyone harassing them.

Why Islamic terrorists, and not all terrorists.

Obsession over Muslim terrorists is more sexy. Concern over other crimes too boring to law enforcement since they occur too often. A life is a life and I refuse to diminish any just because the source of that particular death does not give me an orgasm. That said, it is my hope that Muslims refrain from killing people. I prefer the ideal of gentle, loving and caring Muslims.

Chief posted:

 
 
 
 

On its face that is wrong. Adding the numbers of the fellow and his wife in CA and the dude in Florida one already exceed the numbers here many times.

Also, one simply has to look across the world at the indiscriminate and mindless killings by these hellions and one sees every penny spent is to prevent another 9-11. That changed all things.

ksazma posted:

Obsession over Muslim terrorists is more sexy. Concern over other crimes too boring to law enforcement since they occur too often. A life is a life and I refuse to diminish any just because the source of that particular death does not give me an orgasm. That said, it is my hope that Muslims refrain from killing people. I prefer the ideal of gentle, loving and caring Muslims.

crime is socially driven and can be addressed rationally. We do that all the time but there is always a percentage who will stay in that zone. All of us have seen cities transformed from dens of criminality to tourist paradise because of rational decision making.

 

Jihadist kill for killing sake. They have no real purpose to their actions except to magnify how horrible they are as humans. In the Muslim world they kill women children, health workers, worshipers with no discrimination to their purpose. I do not want to see that in the west.

Notice as europe began to crack down on jihadist preachers and dogmas who took advantage of free speech doctrine to spread hate how quickly the open hate has disappeared. It may be still there but the idea is it cannot be normalized.

D2 posted:
Chief posted:

 
 
 
 

On its face that is wrong. Adding the numbers of the fellow and his wife in CA and the dude in Florida one already exceed the numbers here many times.

Also, one simply has to look across the world at the indiscriminate and mindless killings by these hellions and one sees every penny spent is to prevent another 9-11. That changed all things.

When last you really looked at the World and took an objective view as to who are behind all the hot spots? It's more like a lot of money is being spent to prevent the chicken from coming home to roost.

Chief posted:
D2 posted:
Chief posted:

 On its face that is wrong. Adding the numbers of the fellow and his wife in CA and the dude in Florida one already exceed the numbers here many times.

Also, one simply has to look across the world at the indiscriminate and mindless killings by these hellions and one sees every penny spent is to prevent another 9-11. That changed all things.

When last you really looked at the World and took an objective view as to who are behind all the hot spots? It's more like a lot of money is being spent to prevent the chicken from coming home to roost.

You posted some data and I showed why it is a farce. Now you want me to confirm your bias by assuming some superior knowledge that bad uncle sam is stirring up problems abroad.

 

My dear man, I live in the world and cannot help tuning in to its various problems. I am quite convinced  what you claim to know is your own bias. How many times did I have to upbraid you when you insist America is going Sharia and that Muslims are destined to take over the world?

 

That is your own confusion. The Islamic world is awaiting a reformation...one where brave men can preach that the world is a plurality of faiths and competition does not mean murder and mayhem to force submission.

Chief posted:

Good morning D2

The "islamic world" reformation must include the purging of the Monarchy In Suadi who are in bed with you know who.

The Saudis has nothing to do with my statement. They have been an instrument of extreme fundamentalist Islam that has turned many of our open minded Guyanese Muslims into hard line zealots. The US foreign policy is not driven by morals but convenience and expediency. One cannot judge it on the level of religion but as a means to an end. 

Abu Jihad posted:

Islam  do not need a reformation, it needs a reclamation.  

D2 is an uneducated idiot. 

I went to a top ten school where the ***k did you go? The point is it is stale. It refuses to interrogate its foundations and put out authoritative explanations that any can grasp and so is alien even to its own adherents who do not have a universal arab language much less know and could grasp the classical language. Any who questions its tenets are met by petrified rocks like you who think you are the wisest of the wise and broke no questioning. Who is going to take what Islam from whom in this reclamation? There is no global authoritative body that is sacrosanct and every local mullahs can utter decrees hence you have a miasma of schools with opinions on every thing and an opaqueness to that fact. It sells the myth it is a unity of one perfect book in a perfect language that cannot be interpreted wrongly. Now go chew on you ignorance if you believe any of us care you consider yourself a luminary.

Abu Jihad posted:

You could go to the best school and still be an idiot, get my point?

I didn't finish lil infant and more smart than you.

You do not have a point or you would make it. I illustrated why I have my viewpoints....failure to establish any analytical discourse to establish a philosophy of Islam...ie no analog to the christian faith that produced a Berkley, Rousseau, Kant. That died way back since Averroes.

 

Moral justification for the ways of god and a god governed world where justification cannot be skewed without someone saying that it  is crap...ie  theodicy is almost completely absent. We are in a modern world yet what modern Islam embraces in many place is still medieval. The idea of a reformation is not to change the faith or say it has errors but to harden its belief system that can be argued rationally as inevitable given a base condition.

That idiots can say suicide bombing, martyrdom or bombing a church has merit exist because the rigidity too follow personal interpreters of the faith means it is dogmatic and encourages fanaticism. Now chew on that dumb ass.

Ironically while the theory of Islam was intended to prevail, the methods by which those theories can be realized can be fluid. Islam when practiced by Muhammad went through several changes in order to accomplish its objectives. Changes continued even after the death of Muhammad which was beneficial to Muslims as well as non-Muslims. Unfortunately we have allowed the Arabs especially Saudi Arabia to push us back into antiquated methods that don’t correspond to how we live today. While it may look impressive seeing all those Muslims around the world dressed like Arabs now, the long term effects will prove detrimental as many modern Muslims begin to question it. To add to that eventuality will be the question of some of the methods not applicable to today’s thought process which can create a situation like how many Christians stop seeing any reason to be religious. Unfortunately the current breed of mullahs aren’t matured enough to see that far into the future. That is sad because Islam being practiced without the current Arab influence is beautiful.

Abu Jihad posted:

Societies are built on a bottom up approach, not a top down approach. 

Individual monads do not get together and say lets create a society. Societies are organic accretions that grow by happenstance but once they reach a certain size an emerging governing problem demands the over laying  of a consensus superstructure as a  social cement to retain of group cohesion. But I am not here to discuss best social strategies. I think democracy is the best.

 

We are discussing whether the splintering fragments of toxic groups espousing Islam can be purged so the societies in which they exist can survive. That purge as you know is by deinfestation as with ISIS and by critical self examination of all especially those of the faith from which these groups emerge. They have a responsibility to the rest of us.

 

What motivates these groups may be multidimensional but it reduces to a quintessential core understanding that these are lifelong Muslims who somehow fell away from that is touted as mainstream Islam into a bizarre world of extreme and protracted brutality. I am saying that the idea of mainstream Islam has a tragic flaw. Hubris. Is cannot accept this so  it brokers no discussion as to the foundations of its faith, take umbrage to interrogation of its tenets and consequently is intellectually brittle hence the cracks and splinters and engenders these aberrations of  the faith.

 

In its present form as practiced in the world where the outlook is to be monoclonal, it is suspect. If it cannot trust itself to be true and respect others to do the similarly in the same social space it will always be unstable in a world increasingly given to plural faiths and belief systems in heterogeneous societies.

 

That Muslims like you stand back aloof and pretend via your superior airs that you do not have to stand in defense against the decay of your faith into jihadist that begins in the faith means you are betrayers of what you sanctimoniously term "Muslims". It means that those like me who do not give a crap about religion will not take you seriously and inevitably a mask of ignorance and intolerance grows and then the faith gets lumped into one basket.

 

That unfortunately is a global reaction against Islam and it is palatable. In places like china the ethnic uighurs are already being  ground into the dust and no one cares. The same in Burma. Europe and the West already hold it suspect and while the dominating creed is tolerance that is increasingly not going to be the case. The majority does not know the faith but hears and sees its disease. Islam needs a global reformation movement to solidify what it is and what it is not. If it is not Jihadism then much of the ME from Yemen to Syria to Africa does not know it so it rots and reeks and the world smells it and is troubled.

 

I really do not care. I just do not want the rot gets to me. Those of you in the ummah should care. It is your house that is being brought to disrepute. I just see the disease. I see the ravages of a faith made insular by rituals and secrecy and arrogance and authoritarian dominance as  Christianity was up to medieval times.

 

Nothing gets destroyed if healthy critical analysis becomes part of its tradition. It just becomes less brittle and easier to be sustained in a rapidly changing world. Just to top it off, none of these abrahamic faith has ever done well as fundamentalists faiths. If they cannot coexist in a secular world where progress lives they will eventually all die.

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