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FM
Former Member

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so"

 

1. Demand a straight 6-6 split of the parliamentary delegation between the ex-PPP and ex-PNC Factions. You only really need 1 seat to hold the PNC hostage. 6 is better though.

 

2. Demand as a point of democracy that the recall legislation is immediately recalled as a term of your continued stay in Government. Deliver that as a senatus consultum ultimum.

 

3. Some other pro-cross the floor legislation would also be in order as the price for your continued cooperation.

 

This will checkmate the PNC. They wouldn't have a choice because nobody wants to face an election in 3 months after the first sitting of Parliament.

 

I know ayuh mad coolies too schupid fuh ayuh own good. So enjoy the buggery.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so"

 

1. Demand a straight 6-6 split of the parliamentary delegation between the ex-PPP and ex-PNC Factions. You only really need 1 seat to hold the PNC hostage. 6 is better though.

 

2. Demand as a point of democracy that the recall legislation is immediately recalled as a term of your continued stay in Government. Deliver that as a senatus consultum ultimum.

 

3. Some other pro-cross the floor legislation would also be in order as the price for your continued cooperation.

 

This will checkmate the PNC. They wouldn't have a choice because nobody wants to face an election in 3 months after the first sitting of Parliament.

 

I know ayuh mad coolies too schupid fuh ayuh own good. So enjoy the buggery.

Moses is just happy to be a Puppet PM.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so"

 

1. Demand a straight 6-6 split of the parliamentary delegation between the ex-PPP and ex-PNC Factions. You only really need 1 seat to hold the PNC hostage. 6 is better though.

 

2. Demand as a point of democracy that the recall legislation is immediately recalled as a term of your continued stay in Government. Deliver that as a senatus consultum ultimum.

 

3. Some other pro-cross the floor legislation would also be in order as the price for your continued cooperation.

 

This will checkmate the PNC. They wouldn't have a choice because nobody wants to face an election in 3 months after the first sitting of Parliament.

 

I know ayuh mad coolies too schupid fuh ayuh own good. So enjoy the buggery.

Shaitaan Granger and the AFC G/twn faction will never be stupid enough to allow this.  The only hold they have over Moses is to recall him if he decides to attempt to depart and force an MONC vote.

 

In any case Guyanese vote for a President and not for MPs.  Until the constitution changes, it is what it is.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so" . . .

"I told you so" . . . huh? u must certainly enjoy inhaling your own vomit

 

look here u hyperkinetic arsehole, you sold rancid PPP snakeoil on this BB for weeks on end . . . plying us with "statistics" and sophisticated projections based on "insider" disinformation pointing to a sure win for your paymasters the FH gangster cabal

 

that is . . . until reality stepped in

 

now u come here talking out the 5th side of your mouth like u know or knew stuff, hoping everbady forget

 

banna g'wan daside with yuh klown antiman self

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so"

 

1. Demand a straight 6-6 split of the parliamentary delegation between the ex-PPP and ex-PNC Factions. You only really need 1 seat to hold the PNC hostage. 6 is better though.

 

2. Demand as a point of democracy that the recall legislation is immediately recalled as a term of your continued stay in Government. Deliver that as a senatus consultum ultimum.

 

3. Some other pro-cross the floor legislation would also be in order as the price for your continued cooperation.

 

This will checkmate the PNC. They wouldn't have a choice because nobody wants to face an election in 3 months after the first sitting of Parliament.

 

I know ayuh mad coolies too schupid fuh ayuh own good. So enjoy the buggery.

Your last bunch of "clients" who acted on your advice went from President to vagrant with a cardboard sign in the streets. And another may find himself in jail where his butt plug will not discourage suitors. So stop peddling "advice". Caveat Emptor!!!

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so"

 

1. Demand a straight 6-6 split of the parliamentary delegation between the ex-PPP and ex-PNC Factions. You only really need 1 seat to hold the PNC hostage. 6 is better though.

 

2. Demand as a point of democracy that the recall legislation is immediately recalled as a term of your continued stay in Government. Deliver that as a senatus consultum ultimum.

 

3. Some other pro-cross the floor legislation would also be in order as the price for your continued cooperation.

 

This will checkmate the PNC. They wouldn't have a choice because nobody wants to face an election in 3 months after the first sitting of Parliament.

 

I know ayuh mad coolies too schupid fuh ayuh own good. So enjoy the buggery.

You do not tell any one crap. You write so much shit like Nostradamus so of the thousands one or two must appear close to some situation. No such situation exists now except in the concoctions in your head. It is clear that the Achilles heel in the Granger rule is the AFC . They are the men on the wall.  As they did to Ramotar, so can they do to Granger. No one grinds the antidote to their disease underfoot.

 

Granger, if his rule is diseased will be brought down similarly. He is not going about creating a dictatorship. He has actually flattened out the cabinet so much that we now have a plethora of people with "ministers" tags walking around and we are yet to know what they will do.

 

Further, it is not like he won by a mile; he barely squeaked through. For him to survive and endure he has and I am sure he will be, far and beyond what we wanted the PPP to be. 

 

After what the PPP has been, I do not give a dam if he steals a million here or there of elevate a few black people to millionaire status by exclusive contracts. It is the political culture we have and since we are still governed, or see fit to elevate and keep as authoritative figures, detritus of the cold war era, we are getting the best government possible in the circumstance.

 

I do not see any stellar figures from among the young rising to fill the gap. We do have young men and women of worth but all of them were incubated by and nurtured in the culture of these two despicable regimes. Granger may be a turning point but he is no Lee Quan that much we know from giving the beast Green one of our highest national award. However, he is not a friend and family party whose authoritarianism is totalizing. The PPP was that and it is the reason he was seen as viable.

 

The AFC cannot be seen as equals because they never were. They are a foil and that is their power. It has always been the scope of their influence.

FM
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

If they don't want the PPP to rule them again they will find a way to work together.  I know they can't run the country and that's why they are fighting.  The PPP completed over 5000 projects in 23 years.  Can the stupid PNC government beat that? 

I can't help noticing the non-productive tasks being attempted. 

Completed 5000 projects? Most of them were unsuccessfully completed. A large part were also of questionable value. Many were nothing more than transfer of public funds and lands to private PPP individuals. Some were political assassinations.  Numerous ones were loss making projects designed to skim off large chunks of the funds.

Mr.T
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

If they don't want the PPP to rule them again they will find a way to work together.  I know they can't run the country and that's why they are fighting.  The PPP completed over 5000 projects in 23 years.  Can the stupid PNC government beat that? 

I can't help noticing the non-productive tasks being attempted. 

NAME 20 OF THESE SO CALLED PROJECTS

cain
Originally Posted by cain:
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

If they don't want the PPP to rule them again they will find a way to work together.  I know they can't run the country and that's why they are fighting.  The PPP completed over 5000 projects in 23 years.  Can the stupid PNC government beat that? 

I can't help noticing the non-productive tasks being attempted. 

NAME 20 OF THESE SO CALLED PROJECTS

1. The failed GuySuCo project.

2. The assassination of Sawh

3. The transfer of government contracts to the Chinese.

4. The slapping of at least one buck.

5. The rigging of at least two elections.

6. Pradoville I

7. Pradoville II

8. Informing the US that Lall had money stashed in his plane.

9 The slaying of Courtney Cummings

 

That leaves Rama just 10 more to list.

Mr.T

The Indian population has few choices left. Right now the PPP has been discredited and done honest and hard working supporters no favour. The AFC is the only logical choice left as far as the Indian vote is concerned. Indians of the same genetic trace as the ones in Guyana also life in Suriname. Look how they managed to transform themselves since the 60's. The VHP (the equivalent of the PPP) is no longer the automatic choice for Indian voters. And you know whey? The VHP and the PPP both did the same thing: help themselves once in power and keep promising everyone else a cut after the next election. It's easy to fool the uneducated with those promises. The smart ones have left the country where possible.

Mr.T
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
 
 

The AFC cannot be seen as equals because they never were. They are a foil and that is their power. It has always been the scope of their influence.


First you assume that the AFC is a monolithic group. Its isn't.  Any one with knowledge of Guyanese society will see that there is way more potential for internal dissension within the AFC than with the two major parties.  This because it consists of former members of these major parties who come from very different parts of our very heterogeneous society.

 

Secondly the ability to hand Guyana back to the PPP, which in its present state, will return vindicated and arrogant, isn't a valid choice.

 

We have seen that in the UK the junior partner within their coalition gov't crumbled, as many of their supporters fled to the major parties.  The AFC is still to define itself.  Who are their supporters?  What proof can they offer that they have a base?  Submerging themselves within an APNU dominated gov't these questions will be harder to answer with any clarity,

FM
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

If they don't want the PPP to rule them again they will find a way to work together.  I know they can't run the country and that's why they are fighting.  . 


Who says that they are fighting?  What we are seeing is the normal actions of various factions within a coalition ensuring that their respective interests are protected.  Moses has certain powers under the Cummingsburg Agreement.  Granger is ensuring that he cannot easily be held to ransom, maybe with the help of certain segments of the AFC.

 

In addition various supporters of the coalition have made their feelings against specific actions known. This is what democracy is all about. 

 

I know as a PPP supporter these comments are hard for you to understand but this is how democracy works.  The extent to which Granger encourages this will determine whether he succeeds or fails, as neither he, nor his core advisors have a monopoly of ideas or access to how the populations feels about what he is doing.

 

This top down "follow the leader" syndrome that was developed by Janet Jagan and further embellished by Forbes Burnham and Bharat Jagdeo has to end.  I am glad that several coalition supporters listened to Ulele Burnham and are holding Granger/Nagamootoo accountable, even as they support them, and certainly don't wish to see the PPP back, until it fixes itself.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
 

We have seen that in the UK the junior partner within their coalition gov't crumbled, as many of their supporters fled to the major parties.

I certainly would not use the coalition government in the previous UK administration as an example to underline your thought process.. The LibDems crumbled for one and only one reason alone: student fees. The LibDems promised to abolish it. Instead they voted to increase it three fold. With that one action alone they burdened all uni students with a debt totalling at least ÂĢ27000 over a period of 30 years. That debt takes no account of your ability to pay it back or not. My kids are burdened with that debt even though I was prepared to pay it off. But the rules don't allow for parents to pay it off for their kids or for the kids to pay it off in one go either. That's why the LibDems voters base collapsed. The members did not flee either. The majority of them reregistered as party members within the first week after the election once the people within the party who had lied to them had lost their seats.

Mr.T
Originally Posted by Mr.T:

The Indian population has few choices left. .

Indians aren't some separate part of Guyanese society onto themselves.  The onus of the coalition gov't is to ensure that it is fair to this segment of the population.  Not only did the coalition only win by a less than 1% margin, but (apparently)  it could have even lost had the PPP won a handful more votes, as it would have won that seat, thus getting 33 seats.

 

As to the AFC.  If Indians perceive that the APNU dominated gov't has failed then their apprehensions about supporting the AFC move to enter a coalition will be vindicated.  So I don't see that the AFC will be seen as a viable alternative independent of APNU.  If their fears of APNU are realized then they will blame the AFC for enabling it.

 

No political party in Guyana will win elections with a mono racial vote. Small ethnic swing votes are unreliable, if the masses of those ethnic groups remain hostile.  It was the failure of the PPP to build upon its small mixed swing vote, and even smaller swing black vote which led to its demise.  The same thing can happen to APNU AFC.

 

So essentially this isn't about the "few choices" that Indians have.  This is about the fact that victory, based on only attracting a small ethnic swing vote, cannot be assured.  As it is, this ethnic swing vote, on its own, didn't deliver victory.  Had this not been combine with record voter turn out in G/Twn and Linden, the PPP would have won.

FM
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
Originally Posted by caribny:
 

We have seen that in the UK the junior partner within their coalition gov't crumbled, as many of their supporters fled to the major parties.

I certainly would not use the coalition government in the previous UK administration as an example to underline your thought process.. The LibDems crumbled for one and only one reason alone: student fees. The LibDems promised to abolish it. Instead they voted to increase it three fold. With that one action alone they burdened all uni students with a debt totalling at least ÂĢ27000 over a period of 30 years. That debt takes no account of your ability to pay it back or not. My kids are burdened with that debt even though I was prepared to pay it off. But the rules don't allow for parents to pay it off for their kids or for the kids to pay it off in one go either. That's why the LibDems voters base collapsed. The members did not flee either. The majority of them reregistered as party members within the first week after the election once the people within the party who had lied to them had lost their seats.

And the AFC can similarly crumble if Indians think that APNU has a bias against them, real or merely perceived.  The AFC is very dependent on APNU doing its jobs well.

 

As of now we still don't know who or what the AFC's support base is.  Suppose the PPP reforms itself, or the APNU dominated gov't turns out to be effective. Will the disaffected who flocked to the AFC, out of frustration about the parties which they had previously supported, remain with the AFC knowing that it will never be a dominant factor in Guyanese politics?

 

We don't know.

FM
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
Originally Posted by cain:
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

If they don't want the PPP to rule them again they will find a way to work together.  I know they can't run the country and that's why they are fighting.  The PPP completed over 5000 projects in 23 years.  Can the stupid PNC government beat that? 

I can't help noticing the non-productive tasks being attempted. 

NAME 20 OF THESE SO CALLED PROJECTS

1. The failed GuySuCo project.

2. The assassination of Sawh

3. The transfer of government contracts to the Chinese.

4. The slapping of at least one buck.

5. The rigging of at least two elections.

6. Pradoville I

7. Pradoville II

8. Informing the US that Lall had money stashed in his plane.

9 The slaying of Courtney Cummings

 

That leaves Rama just 10 more to list.


I will like Rama to explain why Guysuco was on the brink of collapse, something that would have been unimaginable in 1992.

 

The PPP has had ample time to adjust Guysuco to the new environment that it finds itself in.  They received warning from EU that sugar subsidies would end.  They also received funding to allow a transition to something else.  Skeldon was premised on Guysuco being more efficient.  Skeldon turns out to be the LEAST efficient factory.

 

But for Hoyte's reforms the PPP would have been as much of an economic disaster as Burnham was, and the critical support that the Jagan's provided Burnham in his economic policies is evidence of that.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
 
 

The AFC cannot be seen as equals because they never were. They are a foil and that is their power. It has always been the scope of their influence.


First you assume that the AFC is a monolithic group. Its isn't.  Any one with knowledge of Guyanese society will see that there is way more potential for internal dissension within the AFC than with the two major parties.  This because it consists of former members of these major parties who come from very different parts of our very heterogeneous society.

 

Secondly the ability to hand Guyana back to the PPP, which in its present state, will return vindicated and arrogant, isn't a valid choice.

 

We have seen that in the UK the junior partner within their coalition gov't crumbled, as many of their supporters fled to the major parties.  The AFC is still to define itself.  Who are their supporters?  What proof can they offer that they have a base?  Submerging themselves within an APNU dominated gov't these questions will be harder to answer with any clarity,

You are a knuckle head. I explicitly stated many times that they are not monolithic. However, they only have power in office and in office they are a foil. They are the only salvation for Guyana should Granger go rogue.

 

I do not think he will even though much of what he has done is borderline unsavory. He believes he is sir Galahad and sees no evil but we live in a real world and with real people with real grievances and nothing motivates to question when one like Green gets Laurels on his head.

 

Granger's true worth will be seen in his dealing with the Chinese, NICIL and Sugar. If he is real, he will give the Chinese a lesson in integrity, if not they will continue as usual with no restraints to shipping unfinished logs, secret deals and with their dumping of cheep goods and over running every local business enterprise.

 

And let me be frank, I have seen no trace of a deliberative ruler in him. I see a petty potentate determine to act as he sees fit and to that end he will get all the blame when shit hits the fan. The AFC will come out clean as a whistle if this thing falls apart.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
.. I see a petty potentate determine to act as he sees fit and to that end he will get all the blame.


And the AFC will also be blamed for helping install him in power.

 

If the AFC is not monolithic, then why will they have a monolithic response to Granger?  For many a return to the PPP will be worse.   The only power that the AFC have is to enable APNU, or to enable the PPP.  Exiting APNU dominated gov't means putting the PPP back in office.

 

We don't know who all 12 AFC MPs are, but if the composition is like that of the AFC cabinet members I don't see them blindly following Moses, if Moses feels insulted by Granger.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
 
 

The AFC cannot be seen as equals because they never were. They are a foil and that is their power. It has always been the scope of their influence.


First you assume that the AFC is a monolithic group. Its isn't.  Any one with knowledge of Guyanese society will see that there is way more potential for internal dissension within the AFC than with the two major parties.  This because it consists of former members of these major parties who come from very different parts of our very heterogeneous society.

 

Secondly the ability to hand Guyana back to the PPP, which in its present state, will return vindicated and arrogant, isn't a valid choice.

 

We have seen that in the UK the junior partner within their coalition gov't crumbled, as many of their supporters fled to the major parties.  The AFC is still to define itself.  Who are their supporters?  What proof can they offer that they have a base? 

Submerging themselves(40%) within an APNU dominated(60%) gov't these questions will be harder to answer with any clarity,

 

NOTE - HOW THE JACKASS

PEDDLEING APNU TODAY

 

AND PNC YESTERDAY ......

MAY BE THE DONKEY

WILL GO BACK TO HIS

PNC GOATSHIT TOMORROW....

 

AND APNU ON FRIDAY.

 

Mr T Right....

"All ee doing

is twisting  eee stink mouth

lil bit"

One day he is a Donkey....

And another Day

he is fly in the Donkey BT

Next day a Jackass..

One day PNC.....

Next Day APNU

 

 

But The Flipper really

is a Black Racist Donkey/Jackass

with Blinders

Carrying a Load of

Blackman Hate fuh Coolie

 

which Moses & Granger

fighting against

So now CaribJ

now leff "High & Dry"

 

 He needs to retire in Monkey Mountain

because there is no place for him

in APNU-AFC Alliance

and he cannot speak

for either Party.

Not AFC......Not APNU

Caribj.....

APNU & AFC

agreed to and signed

the Cummingsberg Accord.

 

All 5 Parties in APNU.....

agreed they cannot remove the PPP from power....

without AFC's Support.

 

They agree 60% of the Cabinet

is Better than ZERO% of the Cabinet.

 

Monkey Mountain

is in Region 8

Carry Yuh Ole Rass Da Side

with De Jihaji on yuh Back Side....

and see if yuh

could win ....  one vote

in Monkey Mountain

and.... make a Difference

 

FM
Originally Posted by TI:

The AFC was successful.

as I always said, they were an anti-PPP party.

they have taken down the PPP and martyred themselves in the process as any great jihadi warrior.

 

RIP AFC

to paraphrase Mr Clemens, reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated. They were supposed to be gone with the inception of the alliance.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
.. I see a petty potentate determine to act as he sees fit and to that end he will get all the blame.


And the AFC will also be blamed for helping install him in power.

 

If the AFC is not monolithic, then why will they have a monolithic response to Granger?  For many a return to the PPP will be worse.   The only power that the AFC have is to enable APNU, or to enable the PPP.  Exiting APNU dominated gov't means putting the PPP back in office.

 

We don't know who all 12 AFC MPs are, but if the composition is like that of the AFC cabinet members I don't see them blindly following Moses, if Moses feels insulted by Granger.

I do not know the AFC has responded to Granger . We in the cheering section are complaining and there is cause for the trepidation. When I saw him creating circles within circles as organizational structure I felt he was at the least micromanaging. At the worse he  can just be another dictatorial prick acting in god mode like the PPP.

 

It takes only one AFC member to be displeased to signal the PPP to call a no confidence vote.

 

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
.

I do not know the AFC has responded to Granger . We in the cheering section are complaining and there is cause for the trepidation. When I saw him creating circles within circles as organizational structure I felt he was at the least micromanaging. At the worse he  can just be another dictatorial prick acting in god mode like the PPP.

 

It takes only one AFC member to be displeased to signal the PPP to call a no confidence vote.

 

The issue is how will the AFc respond if Moses gets angry and wants to snatch his 12 seats to force an MONC.  This obviously causing the return of the PPP.

 

How many of the 8 AFC ministers will want a return of the PPP?  There is recall provision.  Should such occur I suspect that the AFC member will be quickly recalled, should the majority of the AFC members not support this.  That is unless you can prove to me that Mr Lutchman has some reason to be more loyal to Moses than to the rest of the AFC.

 

Please note that Trotman is embedded in the same ministry as Harmon.  Interpret that as you wish.  He therefore is seemingly not objecting to Granger's actions, which apparently dilute the role that Moses was expected to play on his own.

 

I suggest that you note that Trotman and Granger emerge from the same moderate middle class of the PNC, and not the thuggish element that Hammie Green once represented.  Or Corbin, before he sold out to Jagdeo.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

I know ayuh nah guh listen but I do enjoy them words "I told you so"

 

1. Demand a straight 6-6 split of the parliamentary delegation between the ex-PPP and ex-PNC Factions. You only really need 1 seat to hold the PNC hostage. 6 is better though.

 

2. Demand as a point of democracy that the recall legislation is immediately recalled as a term of your continued stay in Government. Deliver that as a senatus consultum ultimum.

 

3. Some other pro-cross the floor legislation would also be in order as the price for your continued cooperation.

 

This will checkmate the PNC. They wouldn't have a choice because nobody wants to face an election in 3 months after the first sitting of Parliament.

 

I know ayuh mad coolies too schupid fuh ayuh own good. So enjoy the buggery.

Shaitaan Granger and the AFC G/twn (Black pro-PNC) faction will never be stupid enough to allow this.  The only hold they have over Moses is to recall him if he decides to attempt to depart and force an MONC vote.

 

In any case Guyanese vote for a President and not for MPs.  Until the constitution changes, it is what it is.

Canecutters don't understand this, just like the canecutters in the PPP, architect of their own demise.

FM

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