How Come the AFC Voters are Almost All Indian But The Overwhelming Majority of AFC's 12 MPs Are One Race?

And how come the Indian vote getters in the AFC like Dr. Ramayana weren't included in the Cabinet?

How many votes did Ministers David Paterrson and Noel Holder bring in for the AFC?
Original Post
Originally Posted by randolph:

 Instead of a 60:40. you have a 90:10. The Trotmans, Gaskins, Pattersons et all were always PNC to the core.

Dont tell that to IDIOTS like Kaimullah, Kishan, Warrior and others DUMB, NAIVE and STUPID people!!!!

AFC: Black massas+Some Indentured Coolie Slaves.

Was that a good investment Jay? 1 million dollars to help Patterson and Holder and Gaskin and Cathy tun Minista.

Whah you get duh yuh trouble bai? Nuff cuss from ungrateful PNCites like Caribj and redux.

Den use ayuh bai. Sheer usin.
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
And how come the Indian vote getters in the AFC like Dr. Ramayana weren't included in the Cabinet?

How many votes did Ministers David Paterrson and Noel Holder bring in for the AFC?

I would be surprised that anyone would have expected otherwise.

Originally Posted by ksazma:

       
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
And how come the Indian vote getters in the AFC like Dr. Ramayana weren't included in the Cabinet?

How many votes did Ministers David Paterrson and Noel Holder bring in for the AFC?

I would be surprised that anyone would have expected otherwise.


       


Oh I never expected any differently which is why I labeled this election a choice between HIV vs. AIDS. Abbe Jaganistanis in the AFC didn't disappoint. Dem won two Vice Presidencies sub dem skont happy.

I had never heard of Holder during the election campaign.

 

Bro. Mose had announced in Cotton Tree that he would have oversight of agriculture.

 

Not sure what situation is now.

 

A GT man as Agri Minister sounds like a bad idea.  But Sheila Holder was a co-founder of AFC and gave much $$$ to AFC the way she had bankrolled the WPA.

i log on to GNI and immediately thank the gawd i doan believe in for threads like this

 

it is good to know how some of y'all really feel about y'all NON-INDO "brothers & sisters" in the AFC

 

shaitaan leading the race-bait 'charge' for new bossman Jagdeo and the noe-ROAR PPP . . . that's known

 

the 'motivations' of the others . . . ummmmmmmmmmm?

 

watch this space

Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

All valid questions and concerns.  Not only is Granger's appointments lacking in diversity, AFC is lacking also.

 

How do we fix that going forward, so it does not appear so blatant that there is no diversity.

My expectations have been reduced to zilch. I doan think they have in them to bring about a change in 100 days or a million days. I think Nagamoottoo and Ramjattan are in this coalition for prestige. They know. leaving will not be followed by the other AFC members. But they should resign.

Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

All valid questions and concerns.  Not only is Granger's appointments lacking in diversity, AFC is lacking also.

 

How do we fix that going forward, so it does not appear so blatant that there is no diversity.

My expectations have been reduced to zilch. I doan think they have in them to bring about a change in 100 days or a million days. I think Nagamoottoo and Ramjattan are in this coalition for prestige. They know. leaving will not be followed by the other AFC members. But they should resign.

House Slaves NEVER leave.  Who wants to be in the Cotton Fields???

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
And how come the Indian vote getters in the AFC like Dr. Ramayana weren't included in the Cabinet?

How many votes did Ministers David Paterrson and Noel Holder bring in for the AFC?

I wonder where you got the notion that AFC voters were overwhelmingly Indian? 

 

Just be sure that Nigel Hughes and Trotman brought in many non Indian votes.  Cathy stands as proxy for Nigel.

 

In 2006 the AFC vote came overwhelmingly from the mixed and black vote.  Evidence is that they lost around 30% of it to Granger in 2011.  That still suggests that the non Indian support in 2011 was still at least 50%.

 

To suggest that the AFC only got Indian support in 2011 is pure nonsense.

 

The issue with the AFC is that it put on an "Indian face" to split the PPP vote, by highlighting Nagamootoo, and Ramjattan.  It is clear however that much of the political leadership of that party is non Indian.

 

I challenge you to go argue that Trotman and Hughes didn't bring in any votes.

 

The question that you should be asking is who from the AFC Indo faction, aside from Ramjattan and Nagamootoo, carries enough clout within the hard core AFC membership.

 

Please remember that the AFC was basically formed from Trotman, and some allies. joining with Ramjattan.  Until Nagamootoo arrived on the scene the AFC was an upper urban middle class black and mixed people party.

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Abbe AFC contingent must be pleased that they worked so hard for and spent their own cash to help Gaskin, Patterson, Holder, and Cathy Hughes get Minista wuk

Happy Jagan Bharat, Cheddi?

You seriously have to be joking if you suggest that Nigel Hughes didn't bring in votes, or that Trotman lacks support among the core AFC base (to he extent that it exists).  Patterson is part of the AFC leadership, so how could he have been excluded.

 

I mean there is yet to be any proof furnished that Nagamootoo brought in some huge numbers of Indian votes.

 

Go scroll through all of those APNU AFC meetings in PPP strongholds.  Over 90% of the crowds were African.

 

I cannot recall seeing ANY predominantly Indo crowds at any event where Nagamootoo spoke.

 

So where are this AFC Indo support?  Yes a loyal crowd of anti Jagdeo Jaganites, most of them as old as Moses.  But in the scheme of things how many votes did this group bring in?

Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

All valid questions and concerns.  Not only is Granger's appointments lacking in diversity, AFC is lacking also.

 

How do we fix that going forward, so it does not appear so blatant that there is no diversity.

Indians in the coalition cabinet with clout.  Nagamootoo, Roopnarine, Bulkan, Ramjattan.  I will also add Sharma, given that he is to play a lead role in the forensic audit of gov't agencies to uncover PPP corruption.

 

Africans in the PPP cabinet with juice.  Hinds and Benn.

 

Who has more clout.  Sam Hinds or Moses Nagamootoo.

 

 

You look like a ridiculous black hating racist with your ridiculous claims that life under PPP rule was about diversity.   I will also add that the 99% Indo dominated private sector worked in cahoots with the 60% Indo led PPP cabinet.

 

Yet you are bold faced enough to scream that the PPP was more diverse than the coalition!

 

Clearly you think that Jim Crow wasn't that bad.

Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

There were only 50.1% Indians in the PPP government.  The Coalition has 95% blacks. 

 

 

 

60% of the senior ministers in the PPP cabinet were Indians. 

 

Of the 15 cabinet positions in the coalition govt only 40% are blacks.

 

Now you can jump and scream as you wail that your "ahbe pan tao, black man time done" wails look very quaint at this point in time, but these are the facts.

 

While the coalition isn't perfect it is way more diverse when we look at who has EFFECTIVE power than the PPP was.

Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:

There are 30 ministers in the government and only 6 are Indians. 

 

 

There are also 3 Amerindians and 3 mixed ministers.  So of the 27 figures in leadership (President, PM, senior and junior ministers) 15 are black. 

 

Of these 15, 7 are JUNIOR ministers, meaning that they do not set policy, nor are they included in cabinet.

 

There are 15 in cabinet and an additional 3 (including Granger) who play meaningful roles.  This means 18.

 

Of these 18 NINE are African, FIVE are Indians, with the remainder being either Amerindian or mixed.  

 

So only 50% of those setting policy are African.

  

So where is your 95% black rant? 

 

We will await the composition of the ambassadors, and of the heads of state owned corporations and committees.  Under Jagdeo, NONE of the fully appointed heads of mission were African, as were only TWO heading government corporations, committees and commissions.

Originally Posted by Cobra:
That's what Granger unity govt is all about. Fake.

Look at PPP unity.

 

1.  Only 3 blacks playing effective roles within the PPP gov't.  NONE of whom represented the interests of blacks.

 

2. Until Freddie Kissoon and Nigel Hughes embarrassed the PPP, NONE of the appointed heads of mission were African.  they claimed that they couldn't find any, but suddenly this issue was resolved when it became internationally known that Guyana treated its blacks as third class citizens.

 

3.  Even after that only 2 Africans headed state corporations, commissions or committees.

 

 

I am not aware of who the coalition will select to heads its overseas missions, or state controlled entities, but it is OBVIOUS that the coalition gov't is more diverse than was the PPP when we look at the ethnicity of who sets policy.  60% Indian under the PPP.  50% African under the coalition.

Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

The Mighty GDF, Malcolm Harripaul, did not get call even though he wrote so many letters praising the Almighty Granger and comparing him to the Hindu God and Warrior, Biswas. Coolie Opportunism can be amusing at times.

 

Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

The Mighty GDF, Malcolm Harripaul, did not get call even though he wrote so many letters praising the Almighty Granger and comparing him to the Hindu God and Warrior, Biswas. Coolie Opportunism can be amusing at times.


I suspect that he doesnt want to live in Guyana.  Not every one wishes a pittance working as a civil servant.

Pavi, Shaits....I'm awaiting your reaction to the facts caribny presented on the composition of the government, foreign representatives at Guyana's diplomatic missions and heads of Corporations and Commissions, as well as his historic notes on the AFC's formation?

Kari,

In case you missed it, I long ago had a discussion with Caribj over the ethnic composition of the PPP's appointments and I labeled it party patronage based on an ethnically based party.

For as long as we have ethnically based parties we will have one sided state appointments. I don't really have any issue with the current government per se because I expected it to be a Black dominated Government. Which it is. I also expect Granger to appoint his trusted friends as ambassadors which he should. Ambassadors are always appointed based on that.

This is a PNC Govenment and I expect them to appoint PNC members who are mostly Black. That's not a shocker or even a cause for great concern in and of itself. The issue will be the product of Goverment. Will one race be favored in policy at the expense of the other. That is more to the point.

"I also expect Granger to appoint his trusted friends as ambassadors which he should. Ambassadors are always appointed based on that."

 

So why were people slamming the PPP for appointing their people as Ambassadors?  Everybody can't get Minister work, so they get Ambassadorships.

 

Why you think Coalition has not announced Ambassadors yet?  It's a point of contention.

 

Does AFC get 40% of these?

Jay,

It is a hallowed tradition that Ambassadors are appointed for their closeness to the sending state's sovereign. Granger must have Ambassadors he is personally comfortable with.

As for the PPP ambassadors, I never had an issue with their race. I had an issue with their competency. Political ambassadors should still be competent.

I would not be shocked or appalled if Granger appoints 100pc Black ambassadors. He is the head of a Black party. What did you expect? To appoint non-supporters to these sensitive posts?

You AFC Mosaics are always a day late and a couple rupees short. You lost this battle on Day 1 when you allowed the GT Black Faction of the AFC to run tings. I bet they even have a majority on the AFC Executive. Ayuh mad people even had Granger's son in law on the AFC ExCo. Would Granger ever allow Moses' son-in-law on the PNC ExCo?

You AFC coolies just have to grin and bare ayuh chafe since ayuh prefer to play Dominoes at the run sharp when the PNC and the AFC GT Faction are playing chess.

Buggery, Kwame, crab louse etc etc is more deserving of AFC coolie attentions. Let Prime Minister Harmon run the show.
Jay,

The problem is quite simple. Moses does not have any power because he is being stabbed in the back by the Hughes and Trotman Faction. It's as simple as that. You AFC coolies are their indentured servants. You have no freedom of action.

In Guyana, Blacks control APNU and AFC because ayuh are just schupid Jaganites without a clue as to how power works. Power is the avidly to compel obedience against one's will. Moses does not have that. I would have gladly supported you idiots if I thought for a second that Moses was a man who understood power. He clearly doesn't. He knows how to write propaganda for Mirror which is why he is happy as Editor in Chief of Chronicle.

Moses is of no consequence whatsoever.
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:

"I also expect Granger to appoint his trusted friends as ambassadors which he should. Ambassadors are always appointed based on that."

 

So why were people slamming the PPP for appointing their people as Ambassadors?  Everybody can't get Minister work, so they get Ambassadorships.

 

Why you think Coalition has not announced Ambassadors yet?  It's a point of contention.

 

Does AFC get 40% of these?

Does the Cummingsburg Accord say that the AFC must get 40% of everything,

 

 

I hardly think that the PNC would have been so foolish, given that they are a much larger party, so have a much larger pool of candidates for given slots.

 

You say that the PPP was diverse, even as only 3 blacks had any clout, only 2 headed state owned corporations/commissions/committees, and under Jagdeo NO Africans were in anything other than acting positions at their overseas missions.

 

So given your happiness with the PPPs diversity, you ought to be over come with joy that the PNC dominated gov't has so far displayed more ethnic diversity when selecting people for significant positions.

 

There are 15 cabinet positions and 3 significant people in the Ministry of the Presidency.  NINE of these folks are NOT African.  Look at the senior ministers in the PPP cabinet, and add Luncheon and Ramotar and the PPP was considerably LESS diverse.

 

Now unless only 2 Indians are selected to head state commissions/committees/corporations, and NO Indians are selected as ambassadors/high commissioners, the coalition will be MORE diverse than was the PPP.  As it is the coalition doesn't have to try too hard to be more diverse than the PPP was.

 

So run off and weep that AFC Indos aren't dominating the coalition, as you thought that stupid black people would allow, even after having suffered from 23 years of Indian oppression.

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Jay,

The problem is quite simple. Moses does not have any power because he is being stabbed in the back by the Hughes and Trotman Faction.

Why the shock? Who wouldn't be pissed if you invite some one in, and they arrive with a whole posse singing their praises and ignoring every one else.

 

It was Trotman, the Hughes family, Sheila Holder and Gaskin who, together with Ramjattan, set up the AFC. So why do the Moses cultists think that they would lie down and let him take it over?

Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Jay,

The problem is quite simple. Moses does not have any power because he is being stabbed in the back by the Hughes and Trotman Faction.

Why the shock? Who wouldn't be pissed if you invite some one in, and they arrive with a whole posse singing their praises and ignoring every one else.

 

It was Trotman, the Hughes family, Sheila Holder and Gaskin who, together with Ramjattan, set up the AFC. So why do the Moses cultists think that they would lie down and let him take it over?

Without Moses - Trotman, the Hughes family, Sheila Holder, Gaskin together with Ramjattan would have faded into history. The PNC APNU would have been scraping the bottom with opposition minority.

 Moses gamble with the devil to take down the PPP was supported by enough Indians with the knowledge it might turn into an opportunity for the PNC to come back to life.

Was the means justify the end? I guess we would find out in the next 100 days....

 

It is time to focus on running the country.  It is one thing to say that the PPP is corrupt and inefficient but another thing to walk in their shoes. at least the PPP was creating Jobs provide a high standard of living for all Guyanese.  Take a drive along east bank demerara and east coast demerara, you will see the beauty of the country with one glance.   The PNC left the country in shambles in 1992.  Had it not been for Jagdeo and the PPP there would have been widespread starvation.

Thank god for the PPP

Long live the PPP.

PPP did a lot of good and a lot of bad.

23 years are enough.  We need the change.

 

Coalition will screw up too, but I think they will do better.

If not, they will be a 1 term govt.

 

What Carib and others need to understand is that the AFC gave up the most in this Coalition gamble. AFC said it will be political suicide to join with APNU.  But they took the risk and did it.

 

If the Coalition fails, the AFC is dead, because it has lost its Third Force status.  It cannot recover from that at all.

 

I remember the story of the pig and the chicken having a discussion about what farmer Brown was going to have for breakfast. The Chicken said farmer Brown will be having ham and eggs. The Pig said to the chicken "that's easy for you to say; all you have to do is lay an egg, for me it's a total commitment."  So AFC laid everything on the line when they joined the Coalition.

Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Jay,

The problem is quite simple. Moses does not have any power because he is being stabbed in the back by the Hughes and Trotman Faction.

Why the shock? Who wouldn't be pissed if you invite some one in, and they arrive with a whole posse singing their praises and ignoring every one else.

 

It was Trotman, the Hughes family, Sheila Holder and Gaskin who, together with Ramjattan, set up the AFC. So why do the Moses cultists think that they would lie down and let him take it over?

I would like to know that too.

The PPP could not win without Moses, and the APNU could not win without Moses. Put another way, the Coalition won with Moses, and the PPP lost without Moses.  Remember Moses told them " you all can't win without me."

 

Moses was the game changer.  If we don't demand that they honor the Accord, the AFC will have limited influence because Granger seems to care largely about his supporters, and not all the Coalition supporters.

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