Guyanese Schenectady ranked most dangerous, poorest city in USA

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Chief posted:

Carribean immigrants who also classified themselves as blacks are doing way better than African Americans in NYc.

Al Sharpton would disagree with you.

Why do you think he would.  A common lament of black Americans of his generation is that "these West Indians take all the jobs, and all the houses".  The debate isn't that black immigrants do better. Its about WHY they do better. 

Statistics indicate that black immigrants do better ONLY among those who are less educated.  Black Americans with college degrees do better than black immigrants. Black Americans who didn't finish high school do tremendously worse.  So the problem isn't among black Americans overall. Its among those locked in the poverty syndrome.

The fact remains that there are no hard statistics to prove or disprove the economic success of Black Guyanese compared to Indo Guyanese in the US.  We can only extrapolate based on perception. I know of sizable populations of Black Guyanese living in the slums of Brooklyn NY, Orange, Irvington, East Orange.  Sizable amounts of Indo Guyanese live in RH(not considered a slum area) and Newark NJ(borderline slum). 

Until a study is done we will not have hard facts to make any meaningful comparison. I suggest that these comparisons are better off being left alone and we should concentrate on how jackasses in govt are ruining Guyana. 

Drugb posted:

The fact remains that there are no hard statistics to prove or disprove the economic success of Black Guyanese compared to Indo Guyanese in the US. .. 

And yet you scream that you are superior.  Why is that?  Is it that you collapse into self loathing unless you can convince yourself that black Guyanese are inferior?

I invite you to compare the data that the NYC has on immigrants. It will show that Guyanese and Jamaicans are on par with each other. And in fact that Jamaicans are slightly MORE likely to be in professional and management positions (both men and women) and many (25% of the men) are in construction which has some of the best blue collar wages.

Unless you can prove that black Guyanese do worse than Jamaicans then we must infer that Indo Guyanese are on par with their Afro counterparts.

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:

The fact remains that there are no hard statistics to prove or disprove the economic success of Black Guyanese compared to Indo Guyanese in the US. .. 

And yet you scream that you are superior.  Why is that?  Is it that you collapse into self loathing unless you can convince yourself that black Guyanese are inferior?

I invite you to compare the data that the NYC has on immigrants. It will show that Guyanese and Jamaicans are on par with each other. And in fact that Jamaicans are slightly MORE likely to be in professional and management positions (both men and women) and many (25% of the men) are in construction which has some of the best blue collar wages.

Unless you can prove that black Guyanese do worse than Jamaicans then we must infer that Indo Guyanese are on par with their Afro counterparts.

It is doubtful, first of all, if you look at the Indo's in Guyana and see how their villages always seem to be in better economic shape than Afro, then extrapolate this to the US where you can go to RH and see how Indos are owing their own properties and upkeeping to a high standard. The BlackG we have little information on and they blend in seamlessly with the AfroAmericans and Caribbean. You claim that there is a AfroG Mali somewhere in the US but we are yet to see evidence of this. A tiger normally will not change his stripes. 

caribny posted:

Also druggie Indo Guyanese have been condemned by many Queens whites for creating over crowded conditions.  To them that is a ghetto life, even if the surrounding community isn't.

This is where you argument falls apart. Overcrowded conditions is typical for all immigrants, it is a rite of passage going back to the 18th century. Italians, Jews, Irish etc. It is a means to an end, maybe AfroG can learn something from this. First you live in overcrowded conditions and save money, then one by one you break off and buy homes, helping each other along the way. Once in Guyana, a fellow Trini, brother of Carl Boyce had this discussion with me, him an adult and me a child. He said his observation was that Indos help each other to achieve, pointing to my aunt who as the matriarch of the family gave us all a start in business. He said that Blacks did not follow this pattern, you were on your own as soon as you became an adult. 

Drugb posted:
.
 

It is doubtful, .. 

The data is there. Go and argue with the NYC Dept of planning that they have forced you to spend endless days weeping and wailing and feeling suicidal that they failed to show that Guyanese are twice as rich as Jamaicans.

Its amazing how much you invest in your need to show that Indians are better?

Why is that?

If a successful Afro Guyanese is shown in GNI you collapse into paroxysms of rage instead of congratulating a fellow Guyanese.

Why is that?

It has already been shown that black immigrants outperform American blacks. What you need to show is that Afro Guyanese UNDER perform other black immigrants.

In fact people born in South America who self identify as blacks outperform even other black immigrant groups.  The bulk of these will be Guyanese because Colombian and Ecuadorian immigrants to the USA don't self identify as blacks. Data on Caribbean black immigrants are diluted by those migrating from Haiti, Cuba and the DR who do less well than do those from the English speaking islands, this for obvious reasons.

Druggie as hard as you want to paint Afro Guyanese as ghetto dwellers all you do is reveal your racist nature. Yes you and Ksazma.

The data indicates that there is little difference in how immigrants from assorted English speaking Caribbean nations perform. Jamaicans do NOT under perform Guyanese or Trinidadian even though this is a 95% black group.  So either blacks from Guyana and T&T are losers when compared to Jamaican blacks, or Indo Caribbean migrants to the USA perform around the same as do those of African descent.

Now examine within the machinations of your racist brain why suggesting that Afro Caribbean = Indo Caribbean performance in the USA is something that you find to be so offensive.  It is a neutral statement.

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
.
 

It is doubtful, .. 

The data is there. Go and argue with the NYC Dept of planning that they have forced you to spend endless days weeping and wailing and feeling suicidal that they failed to show that Guyanese are twice as rich as Jamaicans.

Its amazing how much you invest in your need to show that Indians are better?

Why is that?

If a successful Afro Guyanese is shown in GNI you collapse into paroxysms of rage instead of congratulating a fellow Guyanese.

Why is that?

It is not about investing but what each and every one of us have experienced, many of our Afro Black acquaintances are always begging us for money or experiencing hard times. We must be hanging around the wrong set of Afro Blacks as this seems to be the exception according to you there is a AfroG utopia where AfroGs are at the top of the food chain and IndoGs are beggar man. 

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

.. Overcrowded conditions is typical for all immigrants, .

Yes earlier waves of immigrants often exploit their fellow ethnics forcing them to live in unsuitable conditions.

You don't get the point, it is about sharing homes for a common goal. When an Indog comes from Guyana to the US, the first stop is in a family's basement or in one case I saw a family converted their bath room into a temporary bedroom to accommodate one of their own. The poor fellow had to endure stench every time someone took a crap for a few morning the when he could afford it he finally got his own apartment a few years later. This is sacrifice that many of us endure until we can do better. 

Drugb posted:

It is not about investing but what each and every one of us have experienced, many of our Afro Black acquaintances are always begging us for money or experiencing hard times. We must be hanging around the wrong set of Afro Blacks as this seems to be the exception according to you there is a AfroG utopia where AfroGs are at the top of the food chain and IndoGs are beggar man. 

This is a lot of conflation, mixing of apples & oranges, etc., for dishonest polemic convenience.

Are these Afro-Guyanese or African Americans who calling you massa and kissing your uneducated ring?

Please be clear/consistent so we all can follow

 

Homme posted:
Drugb posted:

It is not about investing but what each and every one of us have experienced, many of our Afro Black acquaintances are always begging us for money or experiencing hard times. We must be hanging around the wrong set of Afro Blacks as this seems to be the exception according to you there is a AfroG utopia where AfroGs are at the top of the food chain and IndoGs are beggar man. 

This is a lot of conflation, mixing of apples & oranges, etc., for dishonest polemic convenience.

Are these Afro-Guyanese or African Americans who calling you massa and kissing your uneducated ring?

Please be clear/consistent so we all can follow

 

Homme, if you were a reasonable man you would concede my point. Drive through East Orange or Orange NJ and see how AfroG have to dodge bullets to survive, I feel sorry for them, not sure why they choose to live in these bad areas. Meanwhile whenever political parties comes for donation we see Afros dodging Granger et al, holding on tight tight to their purse strings while the PPP enjoy the opulence of donations from the IndoG communities. 

Drugb posted:
Homme posted:
Drugb posted:

It is not about investing but what each and every one of us have experienced, many of our Afro Black acquaintances are always begging us for money or experiencing hard times. We must be hanging around the wrong set of Afro Blacks as this seems to be the exception according to you there is a AfroG utopia where AfroGs are at the top of the food chain and IndoGs are beggar man. 

This is a lot of conflation, mixing of apples & oranges, etc., for dishonest polemic convenience.

Are these Afro-Guyanese or African Americans who calling you massa and kissing your uneducated ring?

Please be clear/consistent so we all can follow

 

Homme, if you were a reasonable man you would concede my point. Drive through East Orange or Orange NJ and see how AfroG have to dodge bullets to survive, I feel sorry for them, not sure why they choose to live in these bad areas. Meanwhile whenever political parties comes for donation we see Afros dodging Granger et al, holding on tight tight to their purse strings while the PPP enjoy the opulence of donations from the IndoG communities

Afro-Guyanese "dodge bullets to survive" in these communities??! You are surely not interested in sane conversation.

Not sure what relevant point you are making in the latter part (see highlighted) of your race screed.

But more to the point, why are you dodging my original question?

Drugb posted:

The fact remains that there are no hard statistics to prove or disprove the economic success of Black Guyanese compared to Indo Guyanese in the US.  We can only extrapolate based on perception. I know of sizable populations of Black Guyanese living in the slums of Brooklyn NY, Orange, Irvington, East Orange.  Sizable amounts of Indo Guyanese live in RH(not considered a slum area) and Newark NJ(borderline slum). 

Until a study is done we will not have hard facts to make any meaningful comparison. I suggest that these comparisons are better off being left alone and we should concentrate on how jackasses in govt are ruining Guyana. 

And yet you persist in racist stereotyping, roping in statistics of African American poverty to embroider your "perception."

Do you really know what "extrapolate" means?

It's clear that your argumentation is not ready for prime time.

Stick to the rumshop

Homme posted:
Drugb posted:

The fact remains that there are no hard statistics to prove or disprove the economic success of Black Guyanese compared to Indo Guyanese in the US.  We can only extrapolate based on perception. I know of sizable populations of Black Guyanese living in the slums of Brooklyn NY, Orange, Irvington, East Orange.  Sizable amounts of Indo Guyanese live in RH(not considered a slum area) and Newark NJ(borderline slum). 

Until a study is done we will not have hard facts to make any meaningful comparison. I suggest that these comparisons are better off being left alone and we should concentrate on how jackasses in govt are ruining Guyana. 

And yet you persist in racist stereotyping, roping in statistics of African American poverty to embroider your "perception."

Do you really know what "extrapolate" means?

It's clear that your argumentation is not ready for prime time.

Stick to the rumshop

Whattax !!!

That fella should take a break and recuperate,

licks t@rass.

Homme posted:

And yet you persist in racist stereotyping, roping in statistics of African American poverty to embroider your "perception."

Do you really know what "extrapolate" means?

It's clear that your argumentation is not ready for prime time.

Stick to the rumshop

Are you serious? You really believe AfroG are doing just as well or even better than Indos?  You must be playing stupide as any sensible person will concede that the probability that Afrog's are doing worse is the US based on a perusal of their communities in Brooklyn, East Orange, Orange and Irvington where they are mostly apartment dwellers living among the most dangerous criminals in the US. 

I see slow boy is now your fan. 

Drugb posted:
Homme posted:

And yet you persist in racist stereotyping, roping in statistics of African American poverty to embroider your "perception."

Do you really know what "extrapolate" means?

It's clear that your argumentation is not ready for prime time.

Stick to the rumshop

Are you serious? You really believe AfroG are doing just as well or even better than Indos?  You must be playing stupide as any sensible person will concede that the probability that Afrog's are doing worse is the US based on a perusal of their communities in Brooklyn, East Orange, Orange and Irvington where they are mostly apartment dwellers living among the most dangerous criminals in the US. 

Stop embarrassing yourself sir, you are way too ignorant to even approach understanding what i "believe"

And as i peel you like I would a stink, rotten onion, closing your eyes and chanting confused nonsense over and over to take the focus off what I actually write will not make the obloquy disappear

Now run along and do what you do best.

Sit, dig and smell with your low-achieving peers yuji, nehru, skeldon-man and the rest in that 'special' feces laden corner of the GNI sandlot.

Homme posted:
Stop embarrassing yourself sir, you are way too ignorant to even approach understanding what i "believe" And as i peel you like I would a stink, rotten onion, closing your eyes and chanting confused nonsense over and over to take the focus off what I actually write will not make the obloquy disappear Now run along and do what you do best.  Sit, dig and smell with your low-achieving peers yuji, nehru, skeldon-man and the rest in that 'special' feces laden corner of the GNI sandlot.

You may bury your head in the sand and pretend that the US has been a utopia for AfroGs but the evidence and perception does not support this position. 

Drugb posted:
Homme posted:
Stop embarrassing yourself sir, you are way too ignorant to even approach understanding what i "believe." And as i peel you like I would a stink, rotten onion, closing your eyes and chanting confused nonsense over and over to take the focus off what I actually write will not make the obloquy disappear. Now run along and do what you do best.  Sit, dig and smell with your low-achieving peers yuji, nehru, skeldon-man and the rest in that 'special' feces laden corner of the GNI sandlot.

You may bury your head in the sand and pretend that the US has been a utopia for AfroGs but the evidence and perception does not support this position. 

This desperation tic of yours to create 'special' facts out of your personal bowel effluent is fascinating to watch

How does it taste?

now run along like i said

Drugb posted:
, many of our Afro Black acquaintances are always begging us for money or experiencing hard times. We must be hanging

Druggie you are a racist jackass so clearly only those blacks with no self respect will hang around you.

The fact that all the blacks who you know beg you says more about you than anything else.

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

.. Overcrowded conditions is typical for all immigrants, .

Yes earlier waves of immigrants often exploit their fellow ethnics forcing them to live in unsuitable conditions.

You don't get the point, it is about sharing homes for a common goal. When an

good, then let people fester in filth and unhealthy conditions.  Overcrowding is a health hazard.

Homme posted:

This desperation tic of yours to create 'special' facts out of your personal bowel effluent is fascinating to watch

How does it taste?

now run along like i said

Your writing style reminds me of a previous poster, "knee pad burkey" from some 10 years back. Maybe you reincarnated. 

Your bathroom reference seem to indicate the extent of your vocabulary. 

Drugb posted:
Homme posted:

This desperation tic of yours to create 'special' facts out of your personal bowel effluent is fascinating to watch

How does it taste?

now run along like i said

Your writing style reminds me of a previous poster, "knee pad burkey" from some 10 years back. Maybe you reincarnated. 

Your bathroom reference seem to indicate the extent of your vocabulary. 

deal with my facts, no one is following your red herrings

Drugb posted:
.

You may bury your head in the sand and pretend that the US has been a utopia for AfroGs but the evidence and perception does not support this position. 

And yet you have failed to provide data to prove that most Afro Guyanese living in the USA are failures and you even admitted your inability to do this.

So you go find all of the poor ones and then scream "voila!".

In fact data suggests that 75% of the people in East Orange aren't poor.  This being true both of the native and the foreign born.

Drugb posted:
 

You may bury your head in the sand and pretend that the US has been a utopia for AfroGs but the evidence and perception does not support this position. 

Given that there is no evidence that black Guyanese do worse than Indian Guyanese as immigrants to the USA then you can no more argue that its a hell hole for black immigrants if it isn't also for Indo Guyanese.

All you have proven to date is that your fragile ego cannot bare the sight of successful black Guyanese so you go through homeless shelters trying to find the failures.

caribny posted:

Druggie you are a racist jackass so clearly only those blacks with no self respect will hang around you.

The fact that all the blacks who you know beg you says more about you than anything else.

These are harsh words intent to belittle, just because I gave my personal experience. Granted that my experience may be the exception but this does not mean I am incorrect. I invite you to meet me in NJ so we can tour the 3 aforementioned cities so we can together do a walkabout and impromptu interviews to get to the bottom of this issue.  I suspect you will find an excuse to decline my offer because you already know the answer. 

Drugb posted:
 

Are you serious? You really believe AfroG are doing just as well or even better than Indos? . 

It is your own racist nature that leads you to conclude that when in fact you have yet to find data to support this.

If it is so evident that Afro Caribbean immigrants are failures then it should be easy for you to demonstrate that Jamaicans (95% black) considerably underperform Guyanese (60% Indian).

Here are the facts. A large % of Afro Caribbean households consist of single female heads of households, and there is LESS overcrowding meaning that there are fewer income earning adults within each household.  This because the kids tend to leave.  Extended family members are less likely to reside in a given household.

This should suggest that with fewer income earning adults in each household then Guyanese should way out earn Jamaicans, given that in each home there are more income earning adults.  The evidence is that there is no significant difference.  This will suggest that in fact the average adult in a Guyanese household is earning LESS than is the case in the average Jamaican household.

I mean for a group where many households consist of only one adult income earner compared to another group where at least 3 income earning adults live suggests that Indo Guyanese aren't out performing Afro Caribbean people.

But I await your data to show that Jamaicans only earn 60% of what Guyanese households earn.  Or alternatively for you to show that Afro Guyanese households only earn 60% of black Jamaican households.

You are welcomed to continue to roll through homeless shelters to find Guyanese blacks who call you massa and beg from you! It is to be understood by the mental breakdowns that you have every time a successful Guyanese black is highlighted that your self esteem doesn't depend on what you have done, or who you are.  It depends on the notion that at the very least you are better than blacks.

 

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
 

 

Homme, if you were a reasonable man you would concede my point.

It is a fact that your ego (and that of Ksazma) rest on finding indigent blacks.

http://www.city-data.com/pover...ange-New-Jersey.html

Most people who live in East Orange aren't poor.  Care tell why you only know the poor ones?

Poor is a relative term, the town in general considered slummy at least by the upward mobile.  East Orange, Orange and Irvington are 80,70 and 80 % blacks, white will not buy properties there. The crime rates are also high in these towns and schools horrible.  These are transitional towns for many who will move on to other more affluent towns once they have achieved upward mobility.  The same can be said for IndoG's living in RH, Bronx and Newark. But what is important is that while the IndoG will save his pennies and invest in homes, the AfroGs will continue to be apartment dwellers for decades. 

caribny posted:

It is a fact that your ego (and that of Ksazma) rest on finding indigent blacks.

http://www.city-data.com/pover...ange-New-Jersey.html

Most people who live in East Orange aren't poor.  Care tell why you only know the poor ones?

Who said anything about being poor? The question is comparing IndoG vs AfroG, who has done better? Look at your own life to answer this question, do you own a home? Are you receiving govt assistance, section 8 to be specific? Meanwhile an Indo will sub with his family to buy a property and slowly but surely each Indo in the family will eventually own a home. Even the Indos in the slop can crew can confirm that this is how we as a group roll. 

Data to support the different composition of Guyanese and Jamaican households in NYC.  It can be assumed that the differences in composition are reflective of the fact that a majority of Guyanese households are Indo Guyanese (usually estimated at 60%).

 

35% of Jamaicans live in households with married couples, 27% with female heads and 32% non family (usually single people).  For Guyanese the numbers are 48%, 27% and 19%.  This shows that the average Jamaican lives in a household with fewer adults with a high % being single. or living with unrelated adults who therefore aren't part of their household.

Jamaicans are slightly more educated with fewer than 21% having less than high school education and 21% having college or more. Guyanese were at 26% and 16% respectively.  Both countries suffer extreme brain drain.

Jamaicans between 17-24 had a high school drop out rate of around 7% between 2007-2011.  For Guyanese it was around 12%.

13% of Jamaican households were poor vs. 16% of Guyanese households. Median household income in 2011 for Jamaicans was $49k and for Guyanese at $51k.  Note the fact that 65% of Jamaicans live in households with likely just one adult income earner being present, whereas 53% for Guyanese.  This means that Guyanese had more income earners per household but yet these households only generated $2k more.

Druggie this data comes from the NYC Dept. of Planning and it indicates that there is little statistical difference in the socio economic status of Jamaican vs. Guyanese households.

I know that this puts you on suicide watch, but hey what the heck!

caribny posted:

You are welcomed to continue to roll through homeless shelters to find Guyanese blacks who call you massa and beg from you! It is to be understood by the mental breakdowns that you have every time a successful Guyanese black is highlighted that your self esteem doesn't depend on what you have done, or who you are.  It depends on the notion that at the very least you are better than blacks.

 

In fact I already indicated that no such data exists so all we can do is extrapolate based on what we know historically about AfroGs as well as informal observations. For instance my reference to personal experience where my AfroG associates would beg for a raise or always crying financial issues.  In addition general observations about encounters in run down cities as I have previously mentioned. 

Drugb posted:
 

Who said anything about being poor? The question is comparing IndoG vs AfroG, who has done better?

You don't know my life but I can tell from yours that you have done poorly because you have this incessant need to prove that you are better than I am.

I showed data which indicates that the median status of Guyanese and Jamaicans fall within the same statistical range.

You are free to show that Afro Guyanese do so much worse than do Jamaicans that this offsets any advantage that Indo Guyanese have.

Given that you don't live in an Indo Guyanese neighborhood why do you assume that most Afro Guyanese do?

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

You are welcomed to continue to roll through homeless shelters to find Guyanese blacks who call you massa and beg from you! It is to be understood by the mental breakdowns that you have every time a successful Guyanese black is highlighted that your self esteem doesn't depend on what you have done, or who you are.  It depends on the notion that at the very least you are better than blacks.

 

In fact I already indicated that no such data exists

So then you will have to conclude that while you would like to think that Afro Caribbean people are failures you cannot prove that.

So why not be honest and state that because you perceive yourself to be a loser that you need to think that black immigrants are doing even worse?

Drugb posted:
. For instance my reference to personal experience where my AfroG associates would beg for a raise or always crying financial issues.  

We have already established the fact that the only Afro Guyanese who tolerate your pathetic presence are the poor ones, so this is where your impression comes from.

I bet you don't know any Afro Guyanese who own professional service companies.  No you don't as any who do something other than security guard work intimidate you.

Let us look at how you and I argue our case. I go to third party data based on US census figures. So I am not limiting myself to those who I encounter, but to a large sampling of the populations as reflected in US census data.

You roam through certain neighborhoods where your impoverished disciples live, conclude that every one who lives there must be Afro Guyanese and also conclude that this represents how most Afro Guyanese live.

Most will see that there is a clear difference in our intellect and educational backgrounds. 

You are simple, stupid and uneducated so you don't even know where to find this data or how to analyze this.  You are also too dumb to understand that the social networks that you are in might not reflect how a given population lives.

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

You are welcomed to continue to roll through homeless shelters to find Guyanese blacks who call you massa and beg from you! It is to be understood by the mental breakdowns that you have every time a successful Guyanese black is highlighted that your self esteem doesn't depend on what you have done, or who you are.  It depends on the notion that at the very least you are better than blacks.

 

In fact I already indicated that no such data exists

So then you will have to conclude that while you would like to think that Afro Caribbean people are failures you cannot prove that.

So why not be honest and state that because you perceive yourself to be a loser that you need to think that black immigrants are doing even worse?

I never said anyone were failures. Just that a tiger will not lose his stripe.  Growing up in Guyana and visiting over the years have reinforced these stereotypes that Afros will sport out his money and neglect his house. We see this same methodology being applied by the Granger govt.  The other day I met a white mechanic with a shop in a Black area, and he said nonchalantly "A black will spend money on beautifying his car but live in a dump and starve the next day". 

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