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William Alan Shirley

 59 minutes ago

The statement, "Those who claim it's just one or the other are dead wrong." is dead wrong. It is neither failed government nor...

rebecca1048

 1 hour ago

I find it odd the group bears the same name as the ancient pagan Egyptian god.

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The U.S. keeps repeating the same mistake in the Middle East: overestimating the power of religious ideology and underappreciating the impact of misgovernance. Sarah Chayes, who long worked in Afghanistan and has written an important book — “Thieves of State: Why Corruption Threatens Global Security” — about how government corruption helped turn Afghans away from us and from the pro-U.S. Afghan regime, argues that “nothing feeds extremism more than the in-your-face corruption and injustice” that some of America’s closet Middle East allies administer daily to their people.

The third ISIS faction is composed of the true ideologues, led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. They have their own apocalyptic version of Islam. But it would not be resonating were it not for the fact that “both religion and politics have been hijacked” in the Arab world and Pakistan, creating a “toxic mix,” says Nader Mousavizadeh, who co-leads the global consulting firm Macro Advisory Partners. The Arab peoples have been mostly ruled by radicals or reactionaries. And without the prospect of a legitimate politics “that genuinely responds to popular grievances,” no amount of top-down attempts to engender moderate Islam will succeed, he added.

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Islam has no Vatican to decree whose Islam is authentic, so it emerges differently in different contexts. There is a moderate Islam that emerged in decent political, social and economic contexts — see Indian Islam, Indonesian Islam and Malaysian Islam — and never stood in the way of their progress. And there are puritanical, anti-pluralistic, anti-modern education, anti-women Islams that emerged from the more tribalized corners of the Arab world, Nigeria and Pakistan, helping hold these places back.

That’s why ISIS is not just an Islam problem and not just a “root causes” problem. ISIS is a product of decades of failed governance in the Arab world and Pakistan and centuries of a calcification of Arab Islam. They feed off each other. Those who claim it’s just one or the other are dead wrong.

So, to defeat ISIS and not see another emerge, you need to: wipe out its leadership; enlist Muslims to discredit the very real, popular, extremist versions of Islam coming out of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan; stem the injustice, corruption, sectarianism and state failure now rampant in the Arab world and Pakistan; and carve out for Iraqi Sunnis their own autonomous region of Iraq and a share of its oil wealth, just like the Kurds have. I know: sounds impossible. But this problem is very deep. This is the only route to a more moderate Arab Islam — as well as to fewer young men and women looking for dignity in all the wrong places.

 

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I do not worry about ISIS. They are dead men walking. Any day of the week t he US decides they want the entire lot gone they are gone. Further, they are stupid to think the horrible acts of crucifixion, beheading, immolation will deter others from fighting them.

 

To the contrary, others are becoming aware that one gives them no quarter and to fight to the death. Bagdhaddi has to hide in the night like a vampire. He cannot use a telephone access the internet or even whistle loudly. Imagine that and the west are just minimally engaged. Friedman like myself wants the US to admit it must go in and stop this in its tracks. Obama may not want to do it but Mrs Clinton will and so will any of the republicans.

 

Also look at what the gentleman commented on mainly; the apparent discombobulated definition of Islam. That makes us wonder what is this thing called Mainstream Muslims. Those are questions everyone has to ask given the scourges and pestilences of the human sort that percolates from the  reservoir of that religion.

 

It is Muslims this kind of thing hurt most. As I mentioned earlier, no one is feeling empathetic to north Africans and they are in dire need. Only a few days ago there was a visceral Republican outcry against the resettling of refugees from Syria in the US. The hope was to being a few thousands, a drop in the bucket among who millions displaced! Australia intends to deport any naturalized person who is linked to any terrorist network. Holland already started, and the Scandinavian nations as well. England already began its clamp down.

 

I am not worried about ISIS reaching the west. I am worried about the kick back and already signs of  global fatigue of offering help to a region intent on cannibalizing itself and all in the name of confused interpretation of religion. I believe ISIS is completely reliant on religion as the basis for its horrible existence. That religion need to self reflect. It needs to reaffirm for the world what it is and what it is not.

 

FM
Last edited by Former Member

There is nothing new about ISIS ideology. You cannot blame Arab or Islamic governments for this purantical form of Islam. It's been happening since the Sunni/Shia split after 632, and battle of Karbala. Every now and then, there is a revival of purantical Islam. Wahabi started his in the 18th CE, and there were several before him.

Also you cannot separate religion from politics in Islam. They are one and the same. The real spiritual Islam is practically dead overrun by medevial rituals,

When Muslims realize they live in a modern world, then there might be hope for the future of Islam. Right now, they are a confused lot.

TI
Originally Posted by TI:

There is nothing new about ISIS ideology. You cannot blame Arab or Islamic governments for this purantical form of Islam. It's been happening since the Sunni/Shia split after 632, and battle of Karbala. Every now and then, there is a revival of purantical Islam. Wahabi started his in the 18th CE, and there were several before him.

Also you cannot separate religion from politics in Islam. They are one and the same. The real spiritual Islam is practically dead overrun by medevial rituals,

When Muslims realize they live in a modern world, then there might be hope for the future of Islam. Right now, they are a confused lot.

When Muslims realize they live in a modern world they will all want therapy!!

FM
Originally Posted by warrior:

all Muslim can change if only they can start eating pig 

 

I have been spreading the Gospel of Bacon for years chap

 

A pork-eating fullahman is a peaceful fullahman. Look how peaceful our Chief is. That chap would never become a terrorist

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Stormy:

I do not worry about ISIS. They are dead men walking.

 

Yes, but a little breaking news get you all worked up. 

News is News. Their behinds are spending an eternity in jail and not harming anyone in a mall near you so that is enough to be happy about

FM
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Stormy:

I do not worry about ISIS. They are dead men walking.

 

Yes, but a little breaking news get you all worked up. 

Why are you cheering that idiot for his nonchalance? They threaten the state and represent a fanatic horde we are directly engaged in eradicating. That they are festering here is indeed a matter for concern.

FM

Too many young people want action. As the article NY Times  stated  a lot of losers, loners, etc looking for attention.

Stop getting worked up about these three youths, wait until the trial, who knows if they were not baited like so many of the other cases that went before the courts.

 

Chief
Originally Posted by Chief:

Too many young people want action. As the article NY Times  stated  a lot of losers, loners, etc looking for attention.

Stop getting worked up about these three youths, wait until the trial, who knows if they were not baited like so many of the other cases that went before the courts.

 

If the inclination is not there and the presence of mind to want to injure others then no one can or led them to that thought.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by Chief:

Too many young people want action. As the article NY Times  stated  a lot of losers, loners, etc looking for attention.

Stop getting worked up about these three youths, wait until the trial, who knows if they were not baited like so many of the other cases that went before the courts.

 

If the inclination is not there and the presence of mind to want to injure others then no one can or led them to that thought.

So what is the attraction that is driving so many in this direction?

Chief
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by Chief:

Too many young people want action. As the article NY Times  stated  a lot of losers, loners, etc looking for attention.

Stop getting worked up about these three youths, wait until the trial, who knows if they were not baited like so many of the other cases that went before the courts.

 

If the inclination is not there and the presence of mind to want to injure others then no one can or led them to that thought.

So what is the attraction that is driving so many in this direction?

They say their religion. Ask why is the religion such a prodigious producer of suicide bombers and sadists. No other seem to even come close

FM

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