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FM
Former Member

Forum to examine state of African-Guyanese community

Posted December 2013

A forum is being organized to discuss the current socio-economic, political and cultural condition of the African Guyanese community, which is seen as being “in crisis.” The Ghana Day Commit-tee, which will host the forum on August 4 in conjunction with the Cuffy 250 Committee of Washington D.C, has revealed that it will be held under the theme: ‘The State of Black African Guyana: Time for Renewal and Empowerment’, at the African Cultural Development Association’s AKWAABA (Welcome) Centre at Thomas Lands.

In a release announcing the all-day forum, the committee noted that the forum would be the first in a series of conversations among African-Guyanese and that the entire initiative is geared towards getting the African community more included in the political fabric of Guyana. It said it will feature such leading intellectuals, members of civil society, activists and well-known Africanists, as Hugh Tommy Payne, Nigel Hughes, Andaiye, Melissa Ifill, Carl Greenidge and Dr David Hinds, while international presenters include acclaimed African American Scholar-activist Anthony Browder, and Guyanese-American businessmen George Abrams and Floyd Haynes.

But the undertaking was roundly criticised by social/ political activist Freddie Kissoon, who was present at a press conference yesterday, where Dr Hinds spoke about the plans for the forum. According to Kissoon, the proposal put forward has a manifest lack of invitation for any non-African to participate. He said investing in a phenomenon such as this “does not mean you have to be Jewish or African” and this, he suggested, posed a fundamental weakness in the presentation. “Once scholarship is involved, once you are asking scholars to investigate a phenomenon, culture and ethnicity do not matter anymore,” Kissoon said. However, in response, Dr Hinds explained that the initiative “is about the condition of African Guyanese. We want to talk to African-Guyanese; we want a conversation among and between Afro-Guyanese about their condition.

We are not engaged in scholarship but rather engaged in fact-finding. We want to speak with African-Guyanese in their communities for them to say to us what are their problems, what their issues and for us to begin that conversation so we can formulate plans to deal with them.” Hinds stated that perhaps in the second phase when the committee is working on correctional mechanisms for the problems, scholars would be consulted, but for the time being, what is needed is “a conversation among and between African Guyanese. “Now I know in a multi-ethnic society it is very ticklish when a particular ethnic group engages in conversation among themselves, but this is a long tradition in the African Guyanese community and we in the Ghana Day Committee believe that to our detriment we have strayed away from that constant conversation in the community so we want to use this initiative to begin that conversation. So it is not any kind of deliberate attempt to exclude other ethnic groups but we feel that at this juncture, the problems are mounted with the African Guyanese community,” Hinds said. TV personality Basil Bradshaw, in agreement, contended that work needs to done with regard to leadership, as, according to him, contemporary Guyana is now laced with a lot of political confrontations and issues. “We fail to represent our ethnicity from the political perspective. Politics has taken over.

We have suffered as an African group or people because of the political interjections we have had in Guyana and we have not faced this strongly or properly and I am wondering if the African group will now be bold enough and not be fearful of taking that political aspect on,” Bradshaw said.

‘In crisis’

Meanwhile, a release issued by the committee said that almost 50 years after independence the African Guyanese community is in crisis. The post-Emancipation advances and the progress of the early post-independence period have been overtaken by under-achievement in all spheres of national life, a collective sense of alienation and disillusionment and a cultural drift away from the rich heritage of the group. These developments have resulted in insecurities and fears of subjugation. As a result, the release continued, the committee feels there is no better symbol around which to have the discourse than the Berbice Slave Rebellion. The spirit of resistance and freedom embodied in that rebellion is the perfect reminder to African Guyanese that overcoming obstacles and downturns is part and parcel of the local and global praxis, the release said.

Dr Hinds said further that “whenever African Guyanese community has won any big advances it has always been laced with political activism, that is the whole issue of rebellion and overcoming slavery, colonialism, it is political in nature. There is a way in which African Guyanese activism has become criminalized in Guyana. So when they go on the streets or protest for anything, it is seen as some kind of movement towards violence. There has been a kind of movement on the part of the political leadership of the African Guyanese community not to deal with politics and we want to put an end to that.”

He explained that for this reason, an entire section of the forum will be devoted to African Guyanese and the struggle for racial democracy. “In our view, you cannot have political democracy in a multi-ethnic country when a significant group is left out of the political decision-making process. So we feel we can make a lot of headway economically, and in terms of social movements and so forth. But if that is not situated within the context of the ability and the power to make decisions then we are really going nowhere. So we are tying all of this to politics,” Hinds continued. He stated that the conference is being held within the context of African-Guyanese getting equal power to make important decisions and no longer be excluded. The Ghana Day Commit-tee also plans to go around the country to hear from the people themselves what they are experiencing and to see how the subjugation is felt, the gathering heard.

With lengthy periods set aside for discussion, organisers are encouraging all African Guyanese to come out and have their voices heard.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

You see my Dear Carib Beer,

 

The "African" "Black" national group in Guyana seems to be plotting to advance themselves as a group.

 

I have yet to hear even the gold teet brigade scream racism.

 

Notice how even their token lefty coolie was excluded simply because he wasn't "African" enough.

 

Can you imagine the howls among blacks if Indos did this and excluded a Black?

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

You see my Dear Carib Beer,

 

The "African" "Black" national group in Guyana seems to be plotting to advance themselves as a group.

 

I have yet to hear even the gold teet brigade scream racism.

 

Notice how even their token lefty coolie was excluded simply because he wasn't "African" enough.

 

Can you imagine the howls among blacks if Indos did this and excluded a Black?

No Shaitaan this is a discussion of a subset of Guyana who face particular issues, given their history in Guyana.

 

This isnt about people pining to be part of some mythic "African" civilization, or seeing themselves as isolated from other groups.  This is a group who see themselves as an integral part of what being Guyanese is about, connecting themselves to the remaining 70% of the population who do not self identify as "African/black".  Many of the 70% being FAMILY MEMBERS of this group, you know most of the 20% who self identify as mixed.

 

Your point?   Is it that you are against Afro Guyanese seeking to deal with some of the particular problems that they face, to reduce the dysfunctional behavior of segments of that community, and to enable the group to maximize its contributions to Guyana AS A NATION?

 

This isnt some secret plot as it has received wide coverage and Nigel Hughes plays an integral part of this.

 

Reality is that Africans and mixed Guyanese do not see themselves as a separate nation.  Indeed one can even wonder of many would even dwell on their ethnicity if Guyana wasnt the cess pool of racism and race identified politics that it is.

 

You will note my reference to African AND mixed because there is NO ONE in Guyana who can identify where the border line between being "mixed" and being "African" is. Trotman says he is mixed.  Granger identifies as black.  To most Granger looks more mixed than Trotman.  I am sure that there are context which Trotman identifies himself as black, and Granger always talks about how multi racial his family is.

 

With 20% + of Guyanese being mixed I wonder how you will be able to get those Bantustans that you seem to crave as you seek to divide the landmass called Guyana into a series of nations, based on some notion of race.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Anan:

 

  

 

Dat pictcha is truly one of my all time favorites on the Internets


Yes Indo KKKites like you love it to further your stereotypes of blacks, but in Berbice many Indians now do the same....and their victims are almost always other Indians.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Anan:

 

  

 

Dat pictcha is truly one of my all time favorites on the Internets


Yes Indo KKKites like you love it to further your stereotypes of blacks, but in Berbice many Indians now do the same....and their victims are almost always other Indians.

 

doan be projecting on me bro. I grew up and am surrounded by mainly middle class blacks. I don't know any "stereotype" blacks except for a few in my early childhood in Guyana. I didn't mind any of the excesses of the dictatorship except the one atrocity visited upon me personally. Our black neighbors murdered and curried one of my pets. I will carry the pain of that to my grave

 

I found the picture funny because it is. It's not complicated. Not because I think this is "typical" of black people. Certain not the typical black people I know.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
it is. It's not complicated. Not because I think this is "typical" of black people. Certain not the typical black people I know.

You know some black people used to believe that Indians love money so much that they would starve their kids to avoid spending it.  Now suppose some one peddled that image, would you find it funny? 

 

Consider that many justify their racist views based on stereotypes, so blacks are being squeezed out by the Indo KKK in Guyana (the PPP and some of the Indian business elites) and they will use this poster to base their biases on. This will be "evidence" to justify the image of Afro Guyanese which they peddle daily. 

 

So this isn't funny when people are being made to suffer because of the image which stereotypes convey.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
it is. It's not complicated. Not because I think this is "typical" of black people. Certain not the typical black people I know.

You know some black people used to believe that Indians love money so much that they would starve their kids to avoid spending it.  Now suppose some one peddled that image, would you find it funny? 

 

Consider that many justify their racist views based on stereotypes, so blacks are being squeezed out by the Indo KKK in Guyana (the PPP and some of the Indian business elites) and they will use this poster to base their biases on. This will be "evidence" to justify the image of Afro Guyanese which they peddle daily. 

 

So this isn't funny when people are being made to suffer because of the image which stereotypes convey.

 

Because some ignorant people who don't like black people will use an image to re-confirm their already held beliefs, I don't see why the rest of us can't find a funny meme, funny.

 

It was funny for two reasons. Verbiage and allusion to the kid who robbed a liquor store. That's all I saw dude. Racial jokes are funny. One can laugh at them without being racist. I laugh at Indo jokes all the time.

 

By the way, I personally do think we have a serious issue of police treatment of minorities (esp blacks) in this country. That is a separate issue, so don't try and drag me down that dark alley.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

Because some ignorant people who don't like black people will use an image to re-confirm their already held beliefs,

Yes ignorant people like Bharat Jagdeo, Donald Ramotar and the legions of people who operate within their social, business and political networks.

 

Young black males in Guyana are treated no differently by the police than they are in the USA and this is because they are portrayed as having no value as humans.  Indeed it wouldn't surprise me if the situation in Guyana is even worse than it is in the USA.

 

Get it into your head.  THERE IS A SYSTEMATIC PLAN TO EXCLUDE AFRO GUYANESE FROM LEADERSHIP AND THE BASIS FOR THIS IS TO PROVE THAT THERE ARE CRIMINAL, INEPT AND INCAPABLE!

 

So using that poster is not funny, because this is exactly the lie which is peddled to justify rampant police brutality IN GUYANA!  Tiger Bay isn't any different from Ferguson in how the elites treat these people.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:

Get it into your head.  THERE IS A SYSTEMATIC PLAN TO EXCLUDE AFRO GUYANESE FROM LEADERSHIP AND THE BASIS FOR THIS IS TO PROVE THAT THERE ARE CRIMINAL, INEPT AND INCAPABLE!

 

 

This is Conspiracy Theory 101. This gets to the heart of the matter. Do you have any evidence for this extraordinary claim?

 

Let's Occam's Razor this wan. I will be the first to admit that the Indos that run Guyana are just a bunch of thieves who wanna be left alone so they can steal, drink, and screw in peace. But "systematic plan"?

 

These people really aren't that good at planning bro. They are not General Smuts of South Africa designing apartheid.

 

They just steal, appoint their friends and family to top positions, and frikken the ordinary dunce coolies at election time.

 

It's really not more complicated than that.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by caribny:

Get it into your head.  THERE IS A SYSTEMATIC PLAN TO EXCLUDE AFRO GUYANESE FROM LEADERSHIP AND THE BASIS FOR THIS IS TO PROVE THAT THERE ARE CRIMINAL, INEPT AND INCAPABLE!

 

 

This is Conspiracy Theory 101. This gets to the heart of the matter. Do you have any evidence for this extraordinary claim?

 

Yes.  My inability to identify significant numbers of Afro Guyanese who HEAD state owned entities in Guyana. 

 

Now if you can name large numbers of those who do please communicate this to Roger Luncheon who was embarrassed when he too couldn't name too many, and conceded that maybe its because blacks are "unqualified".

 

For such an "ethnic cleansing" to be so thorough it had to be systematic.

 

So go along and think that promoting a picture which caters to the stereotypes that many INFLUENTIAL people peddle about blacks is true.  Indeed the Chronicle printed an ENTIRE editorial on this topic, portraying Afro Guyanese as violent criminals who have not made positive contribution to Guyana.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by caribny:

Get it into your head.  THERE IS A SYSTEMATIC PLAN TO EXCLUDE AFRO GUYANESE FROM LEADERSHIP AND THE BASIS FOR THIS IS TO PROVE THAT THERE ARE CRIMINAL, INEPT AND INCAPABLE!

 

 

This is Conspiracy Theory 101. This gets to the heart of the matter. Do you have any evidence for this extraordinary claim?

 

Yes.  My inability to identify significant numbers of Afro Guyanese who HEAD state owned entities in Guyana. 

 

Now if you can name large numbers of those who do please communicate this to Roger Luncheon who was embarrassed when he too couldn't name too many, and conceded that maybe its because blacks are "unqualified".

 

For such an "ethnic cleansing" to be so thorough it had to be systematic.

 

So go along and think that promoting a picture which caters to the stereotypes that many INFLUENTIAL people peddle about blacks is true.  Indeed the Chronicle printed an ENTIRE editorial on this topic, portraying Afro Guyanese as violent criminals who have not made positive contribution to Guyana.

 

I agree with your assertion that blacks do not constitute a significant percentage of top leadership positions in Guyana. That is a fact.

 

I'm also certain that there are legions of qualified blacks for these positions. Most if not all are probably be more qualified than the Indos who hold these posts now.

 

However, this is because of nepotism and corruption and favoritism and cronyism etc.

 

This was not a conscious plan of dealing with the "Negro Question" at designed at some retreat of Indo arch villains and then subsequently executed.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

However, this is because of nepotism and corruption and favoritism and cronyism etc.

 

 

Given that we know that Afro Guyanese aren't any more moral than are Indo Guyanese if this didn't have an ethnic exclusive agenda mere nepotism and cronyism wouldn't be sufficient to account for the almost total wipe out that we are seeing.  Jagdeo and Ramotar know legions of blacks.  They don't trust them because they are blacks, hence their desire to systematically exclude them.

 

Now this would be bad enough if it were just the public sector, but segments of the private sector are even worse.  I have heard way too often people being told that they wouldn't be hired, or wouldn't receive a promotion, with a touch of the hair, or the commentary (its not Burnham time now). 

 

What frustrates blacks is the WORSENING barriers that they face and the exclusion by Indian elites who control much of the private, as well as most of the public sectors. 

 

You just need to accept the fact that the ethnic exclusion of Indians in the 70s is being replicated today by the ethnic exclusion of Africans.  While hard working and aggressive people will always find ways around that, often involving migration, to negate the fact that ethnicity plays a huge role in access to opportunity in Guyana is wrong.

 

Now suppose the PNC was to win the next election, or the one aftere that.  Not likely, but not a total impossibility?  What then...........?  Sadly the attitudes of many blacks towards Indians has hardened.  I gave the example of the taxi driver.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
I agree with your assertion that blacks do not constitute a significant percentage of top leadership positions in Guyana. That is a fact.

 

I'm also certain that there are legions of qualified blacks for these positions. Most if not all are probably be more qualified than the Indos who hold these posts now.

 

However, this is because of nepotism and corruption and favoritism and cronyism etc.

 

This was not a conscious plan of dealing with the "Negro Question" at designed at some retreat of Indo arch villains and then subsequently executed.

actually, there was a purge of "PNC" people from the gatekeeping echelons of the public service . . . that's just politics

 

unfortunately, since this is Guyana, PNC people for the most part meant black people

 

you're absolutely correct . . . there was no PPP Wannsee conference; but let's not be (wilfully?) naive

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
. . there was no PPP Wannsee conference; but let's not be (wilfully?) naive

There was no formal conference on excluding blacks.  But let us not be naïve.  The accusation by many Afro Guyanese of marginalization has been made for a long time now, so the PPP, and Indian elites as a whole should have been aware of this.  Even if the original intent wasn't to ethnically exclude, they have been told that they have been in fact doing this.

 

Rather than improve it has gotten WORSE!  The PNC boys and girls were squeezed out long ago, and with over 20 years passing since then many qualified and competent blacks would have become available, yet most have been excluded. 

 

So the excuse that it isn't systematic is old and tired and just a refusal of some to admit that the Indian elites of today are every bit as INTENTIONALLY ethnically exclusive as were Burnham's African elites of the 70s.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
. . there was no PPP Wannsee conference; but let's not be (wilfully?) naive

There was no formal conference on excluding blacks.  But let us not be naïve.  The accusation by many Afro Guyanese of marginalization has been made for a long time now, so the PPP, and Indian elites as a whole should have been aware of this.  Even if the original intent wasn't to ethnically exclude, they have been told that they have been in fact doing this.

 

Rather than improve it has gotten WORSE!  The PNC boys and girls were squeezed out long ago, and with over 20 years passing since then many qualified and competent blacks would have become available, yet most have been excluded. 

 

So the excuse that it isn't systematic is old and tired and just a refusal of some to admit that the Indian elites of today are every bit as INTENTIONALLY ethnically exclusive as were Burnham's African elites of the 70s.

 

Marginalization of blacks is a concept I can accept as the facts bear it out. In case you think I'm clueless let me be clear:

 

BLACKS ARE MARGINALIZED IN GUYANA BY THE PPP INDIAN ELITE.

 

Marginalization is a consequence of our poisonous racial politics. You will find no denial here. Only the Gold Teet Brigade and the hopelessly stupid would deny this.

 

We can indeed and should call it "systemic." However, we can't give the impression that this is some crude "No Negroes Allowed" State Policy. Though the results may be the same.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by redux:
. . there was no PPP Wannsee conference; but let's not be (wilfully?) naive

There was no formal conference on excluding blacks.  But let us not be naïve.  The accusation by many Afro Guyanese of marginalization has been made for a long time now, so the PPP, and Indian elites as a whole should have been aware of this.  Even if the original intent wasn't to ethnically exclude, they have been told that they have been in fact doing this.

 

Rather than improve it has gotten WORSE!  The PNC boys and girls were squeezed out long ago, and with over 20 years passing since then many qualified and competent blacks would have become available, yet most have been excluded. 

 

So the excuse that it isn't systematic is old and tired and just a refusal of some to admit that the Indian elites of today are every bit as INTENTIONALLY ethnically exclusive as were Burnham's African elites of the 70s.

caribny, my post was just to point out that there was a plan at the outset to institute a purge of PNC people

 

i am not arguing that the exclusion of blacks did not became worse as the years passed and Indo-Guyanese control of government was consolidated

 

racial politics just did naturally what it does best

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:

caribny, my post was just to point out that there was a plan at the outset to institute a purge of PNC people

 

i am not arguing that the exclusion of blacks did not became worse as the years passed and Indo-Guyanese control of government was consolidated

 

racial politics just did naturally what it does best

 

This is indeed accurate. The PPP did deliberate purge PNC (black) appointees from office. And naturally put their own cronies (Indian) in office3.

 

From afar, this looks like deliberate planned wanton Indian domination. It isn't. It's PPP domination with a racial result.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
. It's PPP domination with a racial result.

So what of the Indians who boycotted that taxi driver, and I am sure indicative of what happens in the Indian dominated parts of the private sector? 

 

The same people who will only use a taxi if one of "their own" was driving it, will also hire "their own", promote "their own", and do business with "their own".  "Their own" is people who belong to their nation.  Outsiders needn't bother.

 

The PPP is to blame for that too?  Or is the ethnically exclusive behavior that even you admit is not uncommon among Indians.  Now most people call it racist, but you describe it differently. 

 

I didn't discuss politics with that taxi driver. I merely asked him how business was, and he told me how it was.  Obviously race transcends the political arena in Guyana.

 

I will suggest to you that the PPP are PART of the problem when it comes to this issue.  They aren't THE entirety of the problem and those who pretend that this is the case fool themselves and risk trouble.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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