ksazma posted:

Politically people say that they are not Muslims because it is easier to do that than to go down the long road of trying to explain that while they are proclaimed Muslims, their actions are not in accordance with Muslim principles. The reality is that we are not the judge of who is a Muslim or not so we do what we would normally do and leave the final judgment to God.

Far as I'm concerned we all have God with us...around us...in us so we are the ones doing final judgement not some jumbie living among the clouds.

cain posted:

ksazma posted:

Politically people say that they are not Muslims because it is easier to do that than to go down the long road of trying to explain that while they are proclaimed Muslims, their actions are not in accordance with Muslim principles. The reality is that we are not the judge of who is a Muslim or not so we do what we would normally do and leave the final judgment to God.

Far as I'm concerned we all have God with us...around us...in us so we are the ones doing final judgement not some jumbie living among the clouds.

it would interesting to see if ksazma agrees with your commentary.  i waiting to read.

Kaz must be busy penning a long, well reasoned response....

cain posted:

ksazma posted:

Politically people say that they are not Muslims because it is easier to do that than to go down the long road of trying to explain that while they are proclaimed Muslims, their actions are not in accordance with Muslim principles. The reality is that we are not the judge of who is a Muslim or not so we do what we would normally do and leave the final judgment to God.

Far as I'm concerned we all have God with us...around us...in us so we are the ones doing final judgement not some jumbie living among the clouds.

I agree. But that is not how religious Muslims feel. I was giving the religious approach and why they would leave the final judgment to God.

Ksaz, dat mek meh remember when meh Neighba got robbed, he said leave them to God. Like God gun find them and bring then to the Police Station.

The Cainsta asked a very good question on the now closed thread. "If a person does things like these terrorists do, they should not be respected dead or alive". From a religious viewpoint the response is different if the person is dead or alive. If the person is alive, they should not be respected and efforts should be made to caution others from that person. Now after that person is dead, they are now left to God's judgment and while that person is still not respected, they should still be given a normal funeral and burial. While the urge will be there to throw that person to starving wolves, we would be compromising our own humanity by doing so.

So Kaz, they should be thrown to the wolves while still alive and eveything irie..correct?

I don't think anyone saying they should not be given a funeral.

The question ( for the upteenth time), is if we claim that they are not Muslims, should we advocate for a Muslim funeral?

In the end, the family will ultimately do what they need to do.

Shouldn’t we all respect the death . I remember in the days , the older folks would stop and tip their hat as the death goes by .

how do we know the crimes that individual commit .

George Bush is responsible for slaughtering thousands in Iraq ... he should be thrown to the wolf .. right 

I never saw Bush with a Gun or a Tomahawk Missile.

Dave posted:

Shouldn’t we all respect the death . I remember in the days , the older folks would stop and tip their hat as the death goes by .

how do we know the crimes that individual commit .

George Bush is responsible for slaughtering thousands in Iraq ... he should be thrown to the wolf .. right 

depends

cain posted:

So Kaz, they should be thrown to the wolves while still alive and eveything irie..correct?

Figuratively, they should be thrown to the wolves and everything else while they are alive or for as long as they continue their wicked ways.

RiffRaff posted:

I don't think anyone saying they should not be given a funeral.

The question ( for the upteenth time), is if we claim that they are not Muslims, should we advocate for a Muslim funeral?

In the end, the family will ultimately do what they need to do.

 

 

My guess is that because Christians are so benevolent, they would have no problem giving that person a Christian funeral. If a Muslim is going to do the funeral, they will do a Muslim one because that is what they are accustomed to doing.

then we should stop claiming that they are not Muslims....

RiffRaff posted:

then we should stop claiming that they are not Muslims....

I agree. The Muslim leaders do that because it is easier than going into detail about their actions. In my opinion that is what keeps the confusion going. The Catholics didn't disown those pastors and claim that they weren't Catholic. They condemned them and held them responsible for their actions. Muslims need to get to that stage.

Muslims and Hindus old people does seh : Ayu nah let nobadee kno that Mulvi or Pandit feel up Bibi/Lillawattie, he gun look bad"

Nehru posted:

Muslims and Hindus old people does seh : Ayu nah let nobadee kno that Mulvi or Pandit feel up Bibi/Lillawattie, he gun look bad"

And that is where the problem stems. I will take the position that it is not my place to comment on Hindus. Regarding Muslims, they should worry less about how things look and more about how they are.

Bhai Ksaz, it really hard to change them old people. They do not realise by being quiet is more feel up gun take place.

RiffRaff posted:

I don't think anyone saying they should not be given a funeral.

The question ( for the upteenth time), is if we claim that they are not Muslims, should we advocate for a Muslim funeral?

In the end, the family will ultimately do what they need to do.

 

 

Riff,

The question is not clear and is based on an assumption, "if".

Who are we to judge and call the individual a non muslim if he or she in fact practised Islam and committed a horrible mistake ?

If at any time the individual practised Islam then they are entitled to a FULL Islamic funeral.

They are ultimately responsible for their actions and will be judged as such and those who do not want to attend their funeral can do so within their rights or decision not to attend.

ksazma posted:

The Cainsta asked a very good question on the now closed thread. "If a person does things like these terrorists do, they should not be respected dead or alive". From a religious viewpoint the response is different if the person is dead or alive. If the person is alive, they should not be respected and efforts should be made to caution others from that person. Now after that person is dead, they are now left to God's judgment and while that person is still not respected, they should still be given a normal funeral and burial. While the urge will be there to throw that person to starving wolves, we would be compromising our own humanity by doing so.

There are soooo many varying beliefs and opinions in this world. What is acceptable to some ppl, is horrendous to others.

On the question to those considered terrorist, I believe those individuals constitute themselves in an opinion that is reasonable, to them. Their minds formulate what they were told, read or rationalize from the culture and enviroment from which they immigrated.

I do not believe this world will ever be like golden era of the 50s. it has changed. People are freer in thoughts and expressions of it. People are more critical on religions, the fear of God has vanished from all faiths. We have civilized ourselves into communities within communities. Guyana comes to mind which is a small version of the world.

Those terrorist will be around for quite sometime. So far, every so often they surface. 

I know it is uncertain when they strike and where I will be. So I asked The Christ to release my Ministering Angel to guard me and anoint myself with the reading of Psalm 91. 

Terrorist, Demented and Insane walks along with us. How would they be known until they do their acts upon the innoncent.

Psalm 91 will do the trick?? 

He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty

I wii say of the Lord, " He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust"  AMEN!!!!

The BIG question is 

why god allow monster to slaughter his own followers and believers in his place of worship. 

Nehru posted:

He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty

I wii say of the Lord, " He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust"  AMEN!!!!

Pastor Nehru.

Now MataJi will turn in his grave

Dave posted:

The BIG question is 

why god allow monster to slaughter his own followers and believers in his place of worship. 

Dave, this is the kind of question that believers are scared to ask. You will hear many versions as to why it happens. Muslims have their explanations too. Unfortunately those explanations ring hallow in the face of the reality that people do not get the safety they pray for.

seignet posted:

ksazma posted:

The Cainsta asked a very good question on the now closed thread. "If a person does things like these terrorists do, they should not be respected dead or alive". From a religious viewpoint the response is different if the person is dead or alive. If the person is alive, they should not be respected and efforts should be made to caution others from that person. Now after that person is dead, they are now left to God's judgment and while that person is still not respected, they should still be given a normal funeral and burial. While the urge will be there to throw that person to starving wolves, we would be compromising our own humanity by doing so.

There are soooo many varying beliefs and opinions in this world. What is acceptable to some ppl, is horrendous to others.

On the question to those considered terrorist, I believe those individuals constitute themselves in an opinion that is reasonable, to them. Their minds formulate what they were told, read or rationalize from the culture and enviroment from which they immigrated.

I do not believe this world will ever be like golden era of the 50s. it has changed. People are freer in thoughts and expressions of it. People are more critical on religions, the fear of God has vanished from all faiths. We have civilized ourselves into communities within communities. Guyana comes to mind which is a small version of the world.

Those terrorist will be around for quite sometime. So far, every so often they surface. 

I know it is uncertain when they strike and where I will be. So I asked The Christ to release my Ministering Angel to guard me and anoint myself with the reading of Psalm 91. 

Terrorist, Demented and Insane walks along with us. How would they be known until they do their acts upon the innoncent.

My hope is that they disappear off the face of this earth immediately.

ksazma posted:

seignet posted:

ksazma posted:

The Cainsta asked a very good question on the now closed thread. "If a person does things like these terrorists do, they should not be respected dead or alive". From a religious viewpoint the response is different if the person is dead or alive. If the person is alive, they should not be respected and efforts should be made to caution others from that person. Now after that person is dead, they are now left to God's judgment and while that person is still not respected, they should still be given a normal funeral and burial. While the urge will be there to throw that person to starving wolves, we would be compromising our own humanity by doing so.

There are soooo many varying beliefs and opinions in this world. What is acceptable to some ppl, is horrendous to others.

On the question to those considered terrorist, I believe those individuals constitute themselves in an opinion that is reasonable, to them. Their minds formulate what they were told, read or rationalize from the culture and enviroment from which they immigrated.

I do not believe this world will ever be like golden era of the 50s. it has changed. People are freer in thoughts and expressions of it. People are more critical on religions, the fear of God has vanished from all faiths. We have civilized ourselves into communities within communities. Guyana comes to mind which is a small version of the world.

Those terrorist will be around for quite sometime. So far, every so often they surface. 

I know it is uncertain when they strike and where I will be. So I asked The Christ to release my Ministering Angel to guard me and anoint myself with the reading of Psalm 91. 

Terrorist, Demented and Insane walks along with us. How would they be known until they do their acts upon the innoncent.

My hope is that they disappear off the face of this earth immediately.

According to prophecies it will get worse. People already asking where is God. And it is not even the beginning of the torments and torture of man. The time will come there is no escaping. According to Enoch, God told him so and he wrote it down for Methuselah. 

The evil of man is unbearable to man. Terrorists already have ppl worried, in most of the world. 

God's last hope was in The Christ. The world was on an axis shifting in tilt and God knew it was time for the Hope of Man to reveal Himself. Because those who believe in Him will be saved in the perilious times.  

Dave posted:

The BIG question is 

why god allow monster to slaughter his own followers and believers in his place of worship. 

On most Fridays, there are slaughters in mosques in Pakistan and Iraq. Muslims on Muslims who share the faith. I hope it doesn't happen in America. Let's hope these terrorist doan shift.

In America, the churches doan seems to escape the trend, but it is not believers shooting believers. 

Abraham stood under the heavens, praise and worship God. Brick and mortar, marble and goldleafed symbols is not a place of worship.

God is unchanging. When Moses wanted to build an alter, God instructed him to choose stones and they must not be fashioned-doan alter the shape.

Nehru posted:

He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty

That  secret place of the most high must be a hippie commune.

seignet posted:

Dave posted:

The BIG question is 

why god allow monster to slaughter his own followers and believers in his place of worship. 

On most Fridays, there are slaughters in mosques in Pakistan and Iraq. Muslims on Muslims who share the faith. I hope it doesn't happen in America. Let's hope these terrorist doan shift.

In America, the churches doan seems to escape the trend, but it is not believers shooting believers. 

Abraham stood under the heavens, praise and worship God. Brick and mortar, marble and goldleafed symbols is not a place of worship.

God is unchanging. When Moses wanted to build an alter, God instructed him to choose stones and they must not be fashioned-doan alter the shape.

 

In America is Christians and Atheists doing the church killings

You saying that Dylann Roof , Manuel Garcia, James Minter to name a few who killed christians at church are  not a christians

I must say that Pointie raised a valid question which requires a valid answer and those who are beating there chests and wrongfully painting Muslims as murderers should answer and own up to their claims about killings in the USA.

If I may add: Of the 13,286 killed by Guns in 2105 and the 26,819 injured as a result of gun violence in 2015 , what was shooter's religious background ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence

• 5 January 2016
• From the section US & Canada

 

Image copyrightREUTERS

US gun debate

• US gun violence in numbers
• Video Obama 'most frustrated' by gun laws
• Why Obama is powerless to reform gun laws
• US state to allow armed teachers

In his first weekly address of 2016, Barack Obama vowed to take executive action to increase background checks on gun buyers.

His announcement followed another bloody year in the US in which thousands were killed and tens of thousands wounded by gunfire.

Here's a look at some of the statistics behind the violence.

The statistics

Mass shootings: There were 372 mass shootings in the US in 2015, killing 475 people and wounding 1,870, according to the Mass Shooting Tracker, which catalogues such incidents. A mass shooting is defined as a single shooting incident which kills or injures four or more people, including the assailant.

Source: Mass Shooting Tracker

School shootings: There were 64 school shootings in 2015, according to a dedicated campaign group set up in the wake of the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre in Connecticut in 2012. Those figures include occasions when a gun was fired but no-one was hurt.

Source: Everytown for Gun SafetyResearch

All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted.

Source: Gun Violence Archive

How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.

Source: UNODC.

The home front: So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

Source: Politifact.

Total number of guns: No official figure exists but there are thought to be about 300 million in the US, held by about a third of the population. That is nearly enough guns for every man, woman and child in the country.

The NRA: The right to own guns is regarded by many as enshrined in the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, and fiercely defended by lobby groups such as the National Rifle Association, which boasted that its membership surged to around five million in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook school shooting.

Gun violence and terrorism: The US spends more than a trillion dollars per year defending itself against terrorism, which kills a tiny fraction of the number of people killed by ordinary gun crime.

According to figures from the US Department of Justice and the Council on Foreign Affairs, 11,385 people died on average annually in firearm incidents in the US between 2001 and 2011.

In the same period, an average of 517 people were killed annually in terror-related incidents. Removing 2001, when 9/11 occurred, from the calculation produces an annual average of just 31.

"Gun violence and terrorism: The US spends more than a trillion dollars per year defending itself against terrorism, which kills a tiny fraction of the number of people killed by ordinary gun crime".

The fact that we spend a lot of money to stop terrorists is one of the reasons why the deaths from terrorists are so low. If we were to stop the checks at the airports, planes would be blown out of the skies every other day. However, we need to do a lot more to curb the deaths by "ordinary gun crime". Politicians turn a blind eye to gun control because they are given hugs sums of money by the NRA and other pro Gun lobbyists. They also pander to their base who believe in the right to bear arms regardless if they are criminals or mentally ill.

Are Muslims responsible for this ?

"All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."

13,286 Killed in 2015 

26,819 injured in 2015

Muslims are not responsible for the above.

What was their religious background for these 13,286 killed and 26,819 injured ? 

Anyway, ponder on some hard facts. 

yuji22 posted:

Are Muslims responsible for this ?

"All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."

13,286 Killed in 2015 

26,819 injured in 2015

Muslims are not responsible for the above.

What was their religious background for these 13,286 killed and 26,819 injured ? 

Anyway, ponder on some hard facts. 

Yugi, asking and answering his own question. Rich guys like you get politicians to turn a blind eye to gun control. 

Pointblank posted:

seignet posted:

Dave posted:

The BIG question is 

why god allow monster to slaughter his own followers and believers in his place of worship. 

On most Fridays, there are slaughters in mosques in Pakistan and Iraq. Muslims on Muslims who share the faith. I hope it doesn't happen in America. Let's hope these terrorist doan shift.

In America, the churches doan seems to escape the trend, but it is not believers shooting believers. 

Abraham stood under the heavens, praise and worship God. Brick and mortar, marble and goldleafed symbols is not a place of worship.

God is unchanging. When Moses wanted to build an alter, God instructed him to choose stones and they must not be fashioned-doan alter the shape.

 

In America is Christians and Atheists doing the church killings

 

You saying that Dylann Roof , Manuel Garcia, James Minter to name a few who killed christians at church are  not a christians

Aren't u denying Muslims that kill in the name allah are not muslims?

Mitwah posted:

yuji22 posted:

Are Muslims responsible for this ?

"All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."

13,286 Killed in 2015 

26,819 injured in 2015

Muslims are not responsible for the above.

What was their religious background for these 13,286 killed and 26,819 injured ? 

Anyway, ponder on some hard facts. 

Yugi, asking and answering his own question. Rich guys like you get politicians to turn a blind eye to gun control. 

Mits this is not about rich or poor. This is about what is right and wrong.

Pew Research Center estimates that there were about 3.3 million Muslims of all ages living in the United States in 2015.

Considering they are a minority in the USA and people like Mars are wrongfully painting them as monsters, it must be pointed out and they are not killers but peaceful like the vast majority of Americans. There are a few rotten in eggs in all religions.  Labelling all muslims as monsters must be condemned and the true facts provided.

I am against the the use of Guns by civilian population, in fact I never touched a gun in my life. Guns should be restricted for use by civilians and should only be in the hands of law enforcement and the military.

We must be united against unfair attacks against people's religion be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or any other religion.

Yuji22

cain posted:

Nehru posted:

He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty

That  secret place of the most high must be a hippie commune.

Free love nuh.

seignet posted:

Pointblank posted:

seignet posted:

Dave posted:

The BIG question is 

why god allow monster to slaughter his own followers and believers in his place of worship. 

On most Fridays, there are slaughters in mosques in Pakistan and Iraq. Muslims on Muslims who share the faith. I hope it doesn't happen in America. Let's hope these terrorist doan shift.

In America, the churches doan seems to escape the trend, but it is not believers shooting believers. 

Abraham stood under the heavens, praise and worship God. Brick and mortar, marble and goldleafed symbols is not a place of worship.

God is unchanging. When Moses wanted to build an alter, God instructed him to choose stones and they must not be fashioned-doan alter the shape.

 

In America is Christians and Atheists doing the church killings

 

You saying that Dylann Roof , Manuel Garcia, James Minter to name a few who killed christians at church are  not a christians

Aren't u denying Muslims that kill in the name allah are not muslims?

If American was to bomb Christians like they do to Muslims , don’t you think there will be a few christians doing exactly the same as those so call Muslim . 

What would you do if your entire family is slaughter by Americans .

I condemn all killing . We all can be a victim one day from these idiots , but let’s address the root cause . Amen

yuji22 posted:

Mitwah posted:

yuji22 posted:

Are Muslims responsible for this ?

"All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."

13,286 Killed in 2015 

26,819 injured in 2015

Muslims are not responsible for the above.

What was their religious background for these 13,286 killed and 26,819 injured ? 

Anyway, ponder on some hard facts. 

Yugi, asking and answering his own question. Rich guys like you get politicians to turn a blind eye to gun control. 

Mits this is not about rich or poor. This is about what is right and wrong.

Pew Research Center estimates that there were about 3.3 million Muslims of all ages living in the United States in 2015.

Considering they are a minority in the USA and people like Mars are wrongfully painting them as monsters, it must be pointed out and they are not killers but peaceful like the vast majority of Americans. There are a few rotten in eggs in all religions.  Labelling all muslims as monsters must be condemned and the true facts provided.

I am against the the use of Guns by civilian population, in fact I never touched a gun in my life. Guns should be restricted for use by civilians and should only be in the hands of law enforcement and the military.

We must be united against unfair attacks against people's religion be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or any other religion.

Yuji22

 

 

Stop with your wicked lies. Mars never said anything like that. You're starting to sound like Chief now who you accused of propagating the same lie against you.

You must be pissed now that i exposed you for the low life hypocrite that you are.

Love is always free. However, free sex is way better.